Interview Replay: Kara on Everybody Pulls The Tarp with Andrew Moses

0:00Andrew Moses:I am unwilling to give up, but I will start over from scratch as many times as it takes to get where I want to be. You just want to make sure you will get knocked down, but just make sure you don't get knocked out. So your only choice should be, go focus on what you can control. Hi everyone and welcome to the Kara Golden Show. Join me each week for inspiring conversations with some of the world's greatest leaders. We'll talk with founders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and really some of the most interesting people of our time. Can't wait to get started. Let's go. Today's episode is a bonus episode. I hope you enjoy it, and please make sure to tune in Monday for a brand new episode of The Kara Golden Show.

0:51Enjoy.

0:58You're listening to Everybody Pulls the Tarp, the go-to podcast for high performers. I'm Andrew Moses. Each week, you'll hear my thought-provoking conversations with Olympians, pro athletes, CEOs, elite coaches, best-selling authors, and other high performers to uncover their secrets to success. Get ready to be inspired each week when we talk about leadership, teamwork, work ethic, and more. Are you ready? Let's go.

1:30Hi, everyone. This week, my guest is Cara Golden. Cara is the founder of Hint, the leading unsweetened flavored water brand loved by millions. In 2004, Cara was addicted to diet soda, at times drinking 10 cans per day. One day, she cut diet soda out of her life and started drinking water. Kara saw immediate health benefits, but thought water was too boring. She began slicing up fruit to put in her water and turned the idea into one of the most successful beverage companies in history. Kara has been named to Fortune's Most Powerful Women Entrepreneurs List, and her book Undaunted is a Wall Street Journal bestseller.

2:13Our conversation is all about the power of persistence, being authentic, and how to create your own opportunities. I can't wait for you to hear Kara's story and everything she has learned on her journey. So let's pull the tarp and get straight to Kara Golden. The first story I want to start with is one, when I was reading your book, Undaunted, I was immediately drawn to, and I said, I have to talk to Kara. You wrote a letter to the managing editor of Fortune, essentially asking for a job or an interview, and he wrote back. what led you to write that letter and what happened when he wrote back?

2:52Doesn't everyone write back, right? It's, I mean, why not? What the heck? So, well, I wrote the managing editor. This was back in the day when email wasn't really a possibility, or at least not in the mainstream. So I wrote him a real letter, pen and paper, and said, hey, I want to come and work for Fortune. I learned a lot about finance through reading Fortune magazine. And it kind of demystified a lot of stuff that I was learning in school. I was a minor in finance, a major in journalism. So I thought I could tie my two things that I was focusing on in school into this unbelievable job. And he wrote me a note back and said, if you're ever in the New York area, then definitely let me know.

3:41And so I didn't ask for permission on when I can come. I instead just said, I'm going to figure out how to get to New York and I'll probably wrap some other interviews around getting out there as when I'm out there as well. And then it was back in the days when all of the Time magazine, which is one of fortune was underneath the time umbrella, was in the Time and Life building on Avenue of the Americas. And I walked into the building and was like mesmerized by everything around me. There was no security at that time. And so I walked right up to the HR department because that's where you get a job, right?

4:22You walk into the HR offices. And I shared that I wanted to see Marshall Loeb with the receptionist. And she said, do you have an appointment? And I said, I have a letter that said that if I'm ever in the New York area and a poor thing, she had no idea what to do with me. She called the head of HR over and said, what do I say? And the head of HR dropped the news to me that I wasn't going to get a job at fortune magazine, that he was just being nice to me. And, you know, I, I basically listened and then said, well, is there any other jobs in the building because I'd love to work here. I think it'd be awesome.

5:01And the timing, I think, of the whole thing was so perfect. She had probably just been lectured about maybe somebody who really needed an executive assistant at Time Magazine. And so I went and interviewed with Brooke McMurray. And Brooke, you know, was a little like surprised that this came up last minute. And she said, wait, so how did you get here? And I showed her the letter and I said, I was here to interview and, but he couldn't meet with me. And so, you know, she just, she loved the story and the tenacity and sort of the curiosity, um, and the connecting the dots and all this. And she said, yeah, you should come work for me.

5:41It'll be great. Like you're going to do awesome. Right. So, you know, it's a, it's a, uh, funny story. It wasn't funny to me while I was going through that day for sure. But more than anything, I think it's a story that I've shared with people over the years that if you don't try, if you can't come up with sort of a plan B immediately, you know, I think being myself, actually sharing my story and sort of, you know, how I saw it was something that Brooke found endearing in some way. And I think she also loved the fact that I wasn't holding back. I wasn't trying to be... I wasn't telling her that I was the previous CEO of a company.

6:27I was just a girl from Scottsdale, Arizona, who was graduating from college, and I wanted to work in New York for a great company that I admired. What's so neat about that? I mean, there's so many levels to get into there, Cara. I mean, first the initiative to write the letter most people probably wouldn't even write the letter then he sends the letter back to you now we don't know if it was a form letter that he that that somebody signed if this was something that he did hundreds of times or if he responded to just you it doesn't matter now you have an offer from him to touch base if you're ever in town you you took that literally and said i'm going to go to town and i'm going to touch base when i'm there i think I would have done the exact same thing now.

7:17It reminds me of a point in my career that I actually regret. I had gotten to know at the time, he was the former chairman of Merrill Lynch. And I had pitched a fundraiser to him that I was organizing at the time. And he became the biggest donor of that fundraising year. And I was young. And I say I was young and mature, stupid, whatever phrase you want to use at the time. But I hadn't gotten... I was a little slow with my thank you notes at the time. And a thank you note came from him first. So he sends me, it was handwritten, Kara. And it said from the former chairman of Merrill Lynch, and it said, Andrew, I want to thank you for allowing me to be part of the fundraising effort.

7:59I appreciate you reaching out to me. And my offices that I keep, he has passed away since, but he said at the time, my offices that I keep are in Princeton, New Jersey. Let me know anytime if you want to come by. Now this is, Kara, this is about 15 minutes, maybe 20 minutes from where I was, you know, living at home for the summer. This was during college. And I said to myself, this was, he was just being nice. He doesn't really want to meet with me. And what I learned over time was he probably did want to meet with me. And it was an immense missed opportunity. And since then, I strive to never miss an opportunity, right?

8:36Because you don't get if you don't ask. And if somebody offers something, you don't get it if you don't do it. And I'm curious, is that like approach to things, something that's always been a part of you, that fearlessness that if he said, come to New York and ask for an interview, I'm going to take him up on that. Is that always been part of your DNA? You know, I think it's part of being the last of five kids. So I found that, you know, being the squeaky wheel in my house, I had two older brothers and two older sisters. And, you know, of course, being the youngest, I thought I was always getting ripped off, right?

9:10They got, they got all the, the new clothes, I got all the hand-me-downs, right? Like that was, that was sort of the way that I saw the world. And, and it was, I felt like until, unless I actually spoke up and said that this is what I want to do, or, or that I actually went out and tried to go accomplish something, then I wouldn't be able to do it. And, you know, I look back on my life and I found that every single time I actually, it wasn't every time that I voiced that this is what I really want to do. But especially with my parents, if this was something that I really wanted to figure out how to do it, I was able to figure it out.

9:50And sometimes I would ask for somebody's help along the way, but I would, I definitely, if I focused on it enough and really thought about how to go out and do it and ask. And also, I think that the idea of curiosity too, that being able to kind of be yourself and be authentic and tell people how you're thinking about things instead of actually trying to be something that you're not and showing up saying like, I'm nervous about this or also thinking about what is this company going to do for me versus me sort of saying, here's how I think I can be helpful. I'm really curious. I don't know anything about your business.

10:32I've never worked before and inside of an office. I mean, all these things. I mean, it's funny. Two things. One, I became friendly with Marshall Loeb's son, Michael Loeb. He actually worked at Sports Illustrated and he was running the ad sales team at the time and became actually started a magazine while I was at a time called Entertainment Weekly. And anyway, it was interesting. I knew, you know, when I published the book that I hadn't talked to Michael in a while, but I sent him a copy of the book. And I said, there's a chapter in here about your dad who had recently passed. And I said, you know, you might get a kick out of it.

11:16And Michael knew the story, but also, you know, I just thought it'd be fun to have it in writing and he wrote me a note back and he said, I just, I just want you to know that my dad wrote that note. Like nobody else wrote that note. My dad, 100 % wrote that note. And the reason he, and he probably would have seen you as well. You know, if you would have like figured out a way to how to get to his office or wrote him back or something, because he really believed that by helping the next generation. And if people would actually show that tenacity, those are the people that you actually want to give the opportunity to.

11:56So I think, you know, there's, so it definitely was him. But the other thing that I was going to say too, is I remember when I was in Arizona, when I was in high school, I worked for Senator John McCain. I mean, he was the cool job to have in Arizona. I mean, he was a POW. I mean, he's incredible. And I remember he had an internship job available and I applied for it and got a, got a few interviews and then he was doing the final interview and he said, so why do you want to work for me? And I said, okay, so my parents are Republicans and I want to know whether or not I'm a Republican. I mean, can you imagine like a high school kid saying this to Senator John McCain, right?

12:47And he looked at me and he started laughing. He said, that is the most honest answer I've ever heard. And so I worked on and off for him for basically seven years. And in the running joke, he would tell people walking into the office, I'm still trying to convince Kara to be a Republican. And, you know, the running joke for him was, you know, the fact that he felt the fact nobody would say that, right? But again, like you stand out just by saying, but just by being a real person to people. And it was truly it. I wasn't going to sit here and tell them that I had all this experience and that I knew this is who I was if I didn't really feel that way.

13:27I think people like miss that so often, right? They miss that authenticity and the genuineness that people bring is really valuable. And he saw that in you and I'm sure others have seen that new. Hey, Kara here. We are thrilled you are listening with us, and I hope you're enjoying this episode. I've had the pleasure of interviewing so many amazing guests over the past few years, and there are so many more to come. I cannot wait. And my focus is on entrepreneurs and CEOs, real innovators and leaders who are making a difference. That's what I'm looking forward to bringing you. One of the reasons I enjoy interviewing many of my guests is that I get to learn.

14:10We all need to hear stories that teach us to be better, inspire us, and help us get through those challenging moments. I can't remember the last time I had a guest that didn't leave me feeling like a major hurdle had been overcome. We just don't hear these stories enough. And when we do, we learn to be smarter and stronger. Don't you agree? Episodes are concise but packed with amazing info that you will surely be inspired by. Do me a favor and send me a DM and tell me what you think about each interview that you get a chance to be inspired by. And if you are so inclined, please leave one of those five-star reviews for The Kara Golden Show on one of your favorite podcast platforms as well.

14:59Reviews really, really help. Now let's get back to this episode. People, I think, are so often afraid to like admit weakness or be vulnerable or, and it's, it's this, I've seen it throughout my career. I mean, and I've built a great network and people will always ask me, how did you meet that person? Or how did you get to talk to that person? Or how did you get to interview that Olympian or that, you know, TV star or this or that. And most times my answer to people is I just asked, you know, I just asked and I, I said, this is why I want to have a conversation with you, or this is what I'm thinking.

15:36And I've always, you know, thanks to a mentor who really kind of, you know, helped frame things for me early in my career. I've always thought about things through the lens of like, if you have a balance sheet, you want you like, you want to be a net giver. Like you alluded to it a few minutes ago, you want to give more than you receive. And if you, if you enter every interaction, thinking, what can I give authentically? And it's genuine, then you're going to get enough in return to fill your bucket as well. But I think your story is just so inspiring to me, and I know to others, because you just asked, you just went for it.

16:10And I think another thing that I've heard you talk about is this concept of just showing up or stepping out and doing something a little different. People hide behind emails these days. They just send emails to everybody. You've talked about even today in the email and text here about the power of making a phone call or maybe the power of a handwritten note. What has driven some of that for you? Well, I think that it is a way to stand out, right? And so often, I think that I've just found... I mean, the first time, it's pretty scary, right? Just to reach out and call somebody or you know, send somebody a note, but maybe I've kind of gamified it to some extent.

16:53Like I'm always curious what the response will be. I mean, sometimes people won't respond, right? But it's sort of thinking about like, what's the worst that can happen? I mean, so often there is some kind of response or you're like, wow, I remember when I was publishing my book And people said, hey, you need to get some people to read your book and, you know, give a quote for what they think. And, you know, and I really started to think about kind of my universe of people that I have met over the years. And some of them I hadn't even talked to in a few years. But I knew that I would really feel good if I felt like they really liked the book.

17:37I mean, people like Jamie Dimon from JP Morgan, people like Adam Grant, people like Sheryl Sandberg, John Legend. I mean, all the really a wide variety, which is sort of my life, right? And people that I've met along the way. And I mean, I was amazed that 100 % of the people that I asked to actually read the book and actually give me a quote said, sure. And I was like, wow. I mean, it was amazing. And it wasn't like a huge sell. I mean, I think more than anything, people appreciated the fact that I said, yeah, you have a couple of months to do it. You don't have two days, right? They probably couldn't have dropped everything to go and do it.

18:21But I think that you're right. People don't ask enough. I think some people get it. Probably Adam Grant gets asked a lot to do it, but he probably also gets asked a lot to do it in three days. and he's not going to do it. Or if it's not a topic that he really knows about, I think that that's a piece of it as well. I think it says a lot, Cara, about you and your story and how you've motivated and inspired so many people too. I want to get into that a little bit. So when you call yourself an accidental entrepreneur, when's the big aha moment that you're going to create Hint? Well, I started my career in media and actually left time and went to CNN and then moved to the Bay Area where I live now.

19:06And that's when I worked my first job in tech. I worked for a little spin out of Apple that was a Steve Jobs idea that was, you know, probably the earliest stage startup prior to starting my own company that I think anyone could go and work for. We went through an acquisition by a company called America Online. And I think having worked for companies, worked for entrepreneurial ventures between CNN and to market and then America online, I, that gave me the confidence to kind of go and do my own thing. I didn't take time off to actually go start a company, become an entrepreneur though. I think it was during this time that I was, you know, being a mom, I decided to take a, I actually said I was going to take a couple of months off, but I ended up taking a few years off and really enjoyed just like that time with my young kids, but also found that I was interested in their health and helping them to get healthy.

20:12And sort of, I'd never read ingredients in food and drinks. I just assumed that if something said diet or low fat, it was like better for you. I never had looked at the amount of sugar in products. And that was something I was doing with my young kids. But when I realized that I kind of had them figured out and they were on the right path, that's when I looked at myself and I thought, I'm kind of a hypocrite. I'm sitting here drinking all these diet sweeteners and I don't know. I don't even know if it's very good for me. I wouldn't give it to my kids. So why am I actually putting it in my own body?

20:50And that's when I decided to just stop and start drinking water. I knew water was better for me, but I just didn't like the taste of water. I thought it was really boring. So in order to get over that hump, I started slicing up fruit and throwing it in the water. And that's when I thought, wow, I feel healthier. I not only lost over 24 pounds in two and a half weeks and my skin cleared up. I never really thought I was unhealthy. I just had assumed that this was the way, you know, as I aged, like this is how I was supposed to be. And I just, I really started to realize that these diet sweeteners were just really causing havoc on my system.

21:37And I thought, I bet there's a lot of other people who don't know this either. I mean, obviously these industries, the diet industry, the diet industry is huge. and I thought, I wonder if I could get a product on the shelf at a local store and maybe that would help people to understand that they could have water that tasted better with no sweeteners in it. I never thought about it as I'm going to go start my own company or I'm going to take on big soda or big sugar or diet sweeteners or whatever. Instead, I just focused on the steps, like launch a product at Whole Foods. And I was laser focused to be able to like go out and try and get that done.

22:21And, you know, I think like, that's the thing that I share with entrepreneurs about my journey is that if you focus on the end game or, you know, sort of the overall goal, it's not that you don't know what the goal is, but you got to focus on the steps. Because if you don't focus on the steps in order to get to the end, you often won't get past the beginning because you just think that it's so hard and daunting, right? And you've got to just go out and just figure out how do I get those steps accomplished first? And so that's the story of Hint and got it on the shelf at Whole Foods in San Francisco and a few other specialty stores in the Bay Area.

23:02And then And today, 17 years later, it's a quarter of a billion dollars in sales. It's the largest privately held non-alcoholic beverage in the country that doesn't have a relationship with Coke, Pepsi or Dr. Pepper Snapple. Like I said, started a product and company and entirely new category, which is still the leader in the category of unsweetened flavored waters. So it can be done. You can come from a different industry to go start something. You just have to work hard and work smart and be able to see around corners and really be able to ask a lot of questions, hear a lot of no's, all of those pieces along the way.

23:48But being an entrepreneur, I think it's been over glamorized. I think it can be lonely to be an entrepreneur. It can be... It's a lot of hard work. way easier ways to make money as I share with college students. So it's definitely something that you should know what you're getting into prior to jumping in. You mentioned that it's over glamorized, Kara. And one of the things that I'm drawn to is the scrappy, unglamorous things that are the ingredients to success. And I'm curious, as you think back to maybe those early days, what were some of the kind of scrappy, unglamorous things that, you know, you needed to do to keep the trains moving forward?

24:32You know, it's interesting. It wasn't that long ago, actually, but thinking back on March of 2020, when the pandemic was hitting, I mean, we were expecting a giant year for 2020. we were going into Walmart and Sam's Club and Aldi and had really prepared to sort of roll into all of that distribution. And my chief operating officer, who happens to also be my husband, was automating plants. And, you know, we were really prepared. Then the pandemic hits and we find out that as an essential product in an FDA-regulated category, and we're FDA-regulated unlike every bottled water company. Bottled water is regulated at the state.

25:24We're regulated at the FDA level because we have fruit in our product. So as we were realizing that the world was going on hold and people were told to not work in offices, our team was actually as an essential product being told, no, you have to go out there and work. And so being able to manage during a time, you know, like the pandemic under a scenario and situation that we had to abide by, right? Or we could actually lose our business license if we weren't doing that. But also, I think, looking back on it, we didn't lay off anybody in the company. We managed remotely. We knew how to do that.

26:16People have said, how did you know how to do that? How did you be able to keep the train moving on the tracks and moving forward? I think that the more challenging times you have, I mean, for us, 2008, 2009, like many people during the financial crisis was super challenging. And you just, it's the same kind of theory of figuring out how do you move forward? How can you see around the corner? That's what great entrepreneurs can do that is maybe different from an operator that has not had that kind of scrappiness is that they could see around corners. They don't think about it as a barrier. Instead, they think, you know, how can I solve this issue, right?

26:56They're constantly thinking about how do I get over the fence? How do I knock the fence down? And that is the most important thing I think that any leader can think about in managing their businesses to think scrappy and be able to, you know, get around those corners. You've said a few times, see around the corners. Is that something that you think is just innate or something that you've been able to teach yourself to get better at over time? I think it's a, it's something that not a lot. I'm fascinated by how I think really, really great entrepreneurs do that and do it really well. So call them paranoid, right?

27:37And I think entrepreneurs are, they're often optimists, but they're actually the ability to sort of, I think the ability to scale a company in any industry has a little bit of both. You have the optimism of, you know, you've got a vision that you want to get out there, but you start to think about, okay, well, if they go right, you know, should I go right? Or maybe I should go left. Maybe I should go right for a while and see how it goes and then go left. And what if I'm going left and then it doesn't work out? Do I need to go straight? Like being able to see what are the different options. And I think that one of the things I share in my story too is that total failure is not an option to successful entrepreneurs, right?