Department of Interior Sec Doug Burgum on Cleaning Up DC | KMP Ep.46

19:41And Chris Wright, Lee Zeldin, myself, Howard, Scott.

19:45Katie Miller:That was your foresight though, beginning of the administration to create the NEDC, because you said we were going to need to focus highly on energy as we move into the next four years of this administration. Yes, and it was apparent to me, having been a governor under the Biden-Harris administration, that they had used a whole-of-governor approach to try to shut down most of the forms of affordable, reliable, and secure energy in favor of weather-dependent, intermittent, foreign-sourced, highly-taxpayer-subsidized energy. I mean, they had tilted the direction in a way where we were actually doing energy subtraction at a time when we needed to do energy addition.

20:25And they really hurt. During those four years, we really hurt our ability to generate power in this country.

20:32Katie Miller:Do you think we'll come on par with China anytime soon in terms of electricity generation? We have to. We need permitting reform. Congress has got to step up and do that. and we have to drop the ideology and we've got to get into getting serious about building this. In this heat wave we just came through, if President Trump had not empowered the NEDC and had not empowered Lee Zeldin, Chris Wright, and many others in our administration to get out and stop shutting down baseload power, including coal plants and natural gas, If we hadn't done that, we would have been lights out across the northeast during this storm, and many, many, many people would have died.

21:15And a mandami telling people, like, you know.

21:18Katie Miller:Wait, wait. What temperature should the thermostat be set at? Yeah, it's a, this is crazy. What's your ideal temperature? Well, what's ideal is that we have affordable, reliable energy, and we can save lives and whatever. I mean, it's like if we can't air condition, if we can't air condition, then just kiss Arizona goodbye. I mean, kiss Florida goodbye. I mean, we have the ability to do this and have a clean environment. It's not an either or thing, but you know, between Europe and what's invaded in New York, this idea. Why does Europe hate air conditioning?

21:50I really, this is back to conspiracy theories. I mean, Germany went on a path where they spent a half a trillion dollars on chasing some green dream, and they ended up with 20 % less electricity that cost three times as much. All the manufacturing is left, and what they needed to do then was to buy natural gas from who? Russia. I mean, in a multi-party system, they didn't have to convince the whole country. They just had to get the Green Party to vote to shut down the coal plants, shut down the nuclear plants, shut down the natural gas plants. I mean, and that's what they did. They self-destructed.

22:23England's on the same path. I mean, to watch what were some of our traditional partners and economic allies and traditional allies basically kill their economies because of energy policy that they somehow got convinced they're going to save the planet. And meanwhile, China is, with all this energy that they produced, if someone actually cared about the environment, then take a look at the emissions. China was the world's largest emitter. and every year they added power, their emissions went up and up and up and up and up. So that's another thing that China's leading in. They're not just leading on power.

22:57They're leading on emissions. And then everyone acts like because they tossed up some solar panels that they're green? No. Or that they're doing EVs? They're doing EVs because they import EVs for cars because they import 11.5 million barrels of oil a day. They're the most transportation fuel-dependent energy country in the world.

23:17Katie Miller:Interior Deleted, which I'm in support of. the website that said that you had to have air conditioning is 78 degrees, I guess for fuel efficiency. What should the correct temperature be? Not 78. I think, I don't believe the federal government should mandate what people should set their thermostats at. I think we should create the conditions for power to be generated, and if people want to spend more, staying warm or staying cool, they can do that, and we would have the power to do both AI and keep people comfortable. That's what energy abundance, We have that as the nation. We are a superpower in energy.

23:53And I'll tell you, in places around the country, because, again, temperature drives, they say that drives your cost up if you have it set lower. Well, you could also move to a red state because we have red states whose electric prices are one-third the cost of what they are in places like New York. Like my home state, it's one-third the cost. so you could actually have your temperature set at a comfortable level and you could have a lower electric bill I mean you get both of those things because you got an energy policy that supports abundance as opposed to for scarcity

24:25Katie Miller:What's the weirdest thing you've gotten used to since moving to DC? Well having been a resident here it's been really fun to have it get safer because Catherine and I are living in right in we're not living in Maryland or Virginia we're living in the city and how fun is it to, it feels safer to get out and about now because of all that. And I don't want to have, you know, like you, you love all your children across the interior. Let's keep going. U.S. Fish and Wildlife, we have 750 refugees around the country. They do amazing work. The U.S. Park Police is one of five law enforcement agencies that report up to the secretary.

25:03So we're doing, you know, police work across our parks, our game wardens.

25:08Katie Miller:Does California have more water available now? They do, because thanks to the Bureau of Reclamation, they do. I thought it was a fish thing. It was a fish thing, and those fish responsibilities are split between Howard Lutnick and myself, because oddly the National Marine Fisheries is part of commerce, and so when a fish swims from the ocean up into California and then is protected, But Howard and I are working on having one list for fish. Because Howard and I, we were in the Oval Office with the president in the first month of this administration. And the president was talking about California water and asking why they couldn't release more water.

25:52It was because of the fish. And he looked at me and said, do you have fish? I said, yes, I have U.S. Fish and Wildlife. Well, you need to take care of it. And I said, no, that one in California is Howard's fish. It was like, Howard has fish? No one looks at Howard and thinks he's a fish guy. We are working to get one, because there's two endangered lists, which makes it very difficult for anybody to build anything on any river that may connect with the ocean. Howard and I are working on getting one list for fish to make it easier for people to get permits and build stuff.

26:27Katie Miller:So since we're talking about Howard, we're going to go into a series called Cabinet Confidential. or you can only answer with that of another cabinet member? Okay, ready? I want to make sure I understand. You can only answer with a person who's in the cabinet. Okay, do I just say their name? Yes. Is this like a quiz? Who's the funniest cabinet member? Marco. We're like six for six. Which cabinet secretary would you trust the most to do your job for a week? Chris Wright. Who's your best friend in the administration? Ooh, that's tough. To pick which child you love the most? That's really impossible.

27:06Katie Miller:Pick one. I don't know. I promise no one will be offended. I'm here because President Trump is here, so let's just go with that. Who has the best taste in music? President Trump and I got elected the same day. We were two guys that had never held office. And when we got, Catherine and I accidentally became governor and first lady of North Dakota because we were the business people running from the outside. and then President Trump won that same night. I mean, that was like a thrill because it was one thing to be governor, but being governor with President Trump, that was great for four years. Then it was a disaster with wind in our face for four years with that interlude.

27:43But now we're back.

27:45Katie Miller:Who has the best taste in music? Well, nobody's got a better playlist than the president and he's in charge of that. And it's great that we have the new sound system in the Rose Garden too. It's bumping. Yep. Who has the worst taste in music? Okay. I wouldn't know. Who would give Joey Chestnut a run for his money in the hot dog eating contest? Well, I would just say I think one unknown is what a total athlete badass that Sean Duffy is as the former logging champion of the world. That's true. You know, climbing 100-foot telephone poles and sliding down with spikes on and all the things that he does.

28:30I would think that he could take on just about anybody.

28:33Katie Miller:How have you and your wife adjusted to life in Washington, D.C.? I think it's been pretty seamless because Catherine, across her professional career, lived in Houston, Austin, Dallas, Boston. So she's lived in other cities. At the start of my career, I lived in Chicago and then near San Francisco before I moved back to North Dakota for most of my life. So it's been fun to be back in an urban environment. You're known to be super active. What's the workout routine these days? It is, right now, Peloton has been the thing that's been the lifesaver. You're still doing Peloton? Yes. I feel like it's taken like a nosedive recently, that more people aren't doing it as much as they used to.

29:19That's probably true, but when you're cramped for time, being able to jump on the bike is a good way to get some cardio.

29:28Katie Miller:What do you eat in a typical day? I probably eat about, on Washington, D.C. prices, I eat about$30 of food a day. What do you eat? How much do you spend on that food? I mean, this is my joke. I got the joke. My joke of saying it's different. I mean, there was a time in my life if I couldn't see the menu from the car, than I would have never been at that restaurant when I was building software companies. Really? Yeah, early in my life, there was a lot of fast food. But like I said, I sort of eat whatever shows up. Has anyone influenced you? If I had a preference, though, I would always take a plate of spaghetti.

30:08Katie Miller:The Wall Street Journal recently wrote a story about the diet overtaking the cabinet. Have you seen this article? I have, yeah. Have you thought about going on the diet? I've been with cabinet members who've brought sauerkraut out to restaurants in Washington, D.C. with them. They've brought them in to some of the finest restaurants. So I'm not on that quite yet. Have you tried it? Although in North Dakota, you know, we have the eastern part of North Dakota is all Scandinavian. Western is all Germans, and so there is a lot of sauerkraut in western North Dakota. It's part of the staple diet there.

30:43Katie Miller:How do you decompress after a long day?

30:53I don't think that's part of, that's not part of the routine.

31:00Katie Miller:What's the latest you've ever gotten a phone call from President Trump? The latest in the last month was 11.45 p.m. That's not that late. No, but over the period of the time working and campaigning with them, I've gotten them as late as 2 a.m. And then the earliest one I've gotten in the last month was 8 a.m. So it's been a good... Gets the restful sleep at night. It is. But President Trump's always very polite. The first question I always ask is, I didn't wake you up, did I? Which park throughout the country do you think needs the most work or are you most excited to fix?

31:46I'm very happy that we've completed a project recently in the Theodore Roosevelt National Park in my home state, the only flagship park in North Dakota. But that took way too long. So one of the things that we're working on is not when we fix stuff is to figure out how we can fix, how can we fix a road in a place like Theodore Roosevelt National Park? as fast as we could fix a road when I was governor in running the North Dakota Department of Transportation because there was a big gap between those two. And we want to be able to fix things and fix them well and fix them faster. And we've got some ideas about how to do that with private-public partnerships and partnerships with the state because left to our own devices, our backlog is too big and the federal government alone is too slow.

32:33Katie Miller:A lot of Park Service employees are what I would like to call woke or very liberal. They fly lots of LGBTQ flags that I don't even know what era of the LGBTQ flag we've approached. How do you handle that insubordination or people who openly want to speak out against you working in your own department, especially people who I feel are critical to doing the job and people's experiences when they experience our national parks? Well, I think one of the things that we're driving to make changes at how we manage all of interior, but for the example that you're talking about with parks, there was a lot of layers.

33:13And when I got here, one of the questions I had was how many people work in the park, work for the national parks. And my second question was, of those almost 26 ,000 people, how many of them actually work in a park as opposed to work at a district, a region, a federal level? because we need more folks that are in the parks, customer-facing. To do that, we've got to fix some things relative to housing and doing that. But what we don't need is a bunch of overhead where we create a lot of burden for folks because you can end up with a little, I would say, independent. Fiefdom is maybe too strong of a word, but there's been a lot of, historically, a lot of distribution of authority out to park superintendents.

34:02And so then each park has a lot of individual. So your comments may apply to one but not to another, depending on the leadership. We're trying to unify the leadership, unify the mission, unify the direction. We've pulled all of IT and comms and HR out of those individual units and unified those at a centralized level. so for the first time we can actually drive. When I came, I said, how many websites do we have? How many Twitter accounts? How many this? How many that? I mean, it was thousands and thousands, and there was no centralized control, so we had 1 ,000 different faces to the public of who we were, and there's an opportunity for us to be more unified.

34:43Katie Miller:One of the big things, and I'm like a national park buff, so I'm going to keep going down this path, is Yosemite had timed passes that were done away with at the beginning of the administration. and people seem to be not very happy with that.

34:58The time passes were an attempt to solve a wait time problem, and there are multiple ways to try to attack the problem. So we have to start with what problem we were trying to solve, and under this administration, we've got the dial turned towards access. We want more public to enjoy our parks and our facilities, and some of that is communication. Some of that is things. I mean, one of the things we did, we dramatically reduced wait times this year. Over Memorial Day weekend, we had the lowest wait times that they've had in years at Yosemite because we allowed people to have a digital pass. And if you're waiting in line, you could go online, buy your pass, then go up to an express lane and show your thing.

35:41I worked the gate. I worked the booth at Yosemite and we had people that came by and they held their phone and I shot it like with a checkout thing and good and boom they're just in they're like this so you're talking seconds per transaction to get somebody into the park as opposed to minutes of conversation about you know you have a map and here's this and here's that and i mean it's like so we we dropped them from like over three hours down to at peak time they were about 51 minutes we can do we have to do even better than that because who wants if you got kids in the car in car seats you don't be waiting 51 minutes but we're getting more information out to those people that are in line you can go online right make sure we've got cellular connection, make sure we have signage, make sure.

36:22And if we have to do the next thing, we can do the Chick-fil-A thing. Instead of like, instead of having...

36:28Katie Miller:I thought you were gonna say bring Chick-fil-A to the parks, and I was like, yeah, let's do it. No, but at Chick-fil-A on a busy day, they send their people out and take your order while you're waiting in line. They start walking towards your car. We have the same ability now with digital passes where we could be, instead of saying, oh, we need more throughput, we've got to cut down trees and add double from three lanes to six lanes. No, we can keep our three lanes for those peak hours, but we can have the equivalent of six, nine, or 12 booths because we've got mobile people walking out and checking people in.

37:01Katie Miller:What's a maintenance story around Washington, D.C. that the public doesn't know about but that you're very proud of or that was a funny one? We all know what happened with the pool. Yes. But I'm sure there's many others throughout the city that you've spent a lot of hours on. Well, I think the Meridian Hill one, people thought that that was like unrepairable, and I think you've seen the videos of that. But when we were tackling trying to get 22 fountains across the city going at the same time, some that hadn't been going for decades, trying to restore all these statues. I mean, the number of people that actually know how to do historic preservation or get a fountain going again is limited.

37:39So I just want to give a shout out to the people that have worked in the capital region, the people that have flown in to help out the capital region to get ready. Amazing work by the National Park Service. And, of course, at the White House, you see the scaffolding on the North Portico right now. You know, President Trump comes out to greet a world leader. He sees door dings in the pillars and says, look at all this stuff. It needs to be repaired.

38:03Katie Miller:Oh, is that what you're doing, fixing the dings in the pillars? Yeah, everything. I mean, and it's all historic renovation work. I mean, the train on restoring the plaster and not just at the door level, all the way up to the crowns of those towers. So it is, everybody... Why has no one ever done that for such a historic building like the White House? The fact that it's been allowed to fall into disrepair in the first place. Yeah, well, it is, President Trump is the one that, like I said, has the attention to detail and the understanding that it done, but the most... So how does that work? President Trump sees the dings, he calls who?

38:34Katie Miller:Calls you? Yes. and says, Doug, there's dings in my pillars. Yes. Then sometimes we'll do a walk around, and he'll point out what he wants to get done. And then we've got people from the national park system wearing their uniforms that are trained in historic renovation. And those folks that do the work are so pumped and so excited about the president because they finally have someone who is allowing them, supporting them, and appreciative, grateful for them because of the skill that they bring to the job on what they're doing to bring that particular historic building back to life. So how long will the pillar repair take?

39:14It'll go very quickly. I think they've been up maybe just about 10 days now, but these guys work very quickly. They did the stuff on the south side of the White House without any fanfare. No one wrote any stories about that. They just did great work, got it done, and moved on. It never broke through like some of the other top stories.

39:33Katie Miller:All right, would you rather? Would you rather mow the entire National Mall by yourself in the recent heat wave or spend three hours answering questions about the reflecting pool? Mowing. Easy. Mowing? When I grew up, I spent a lot of time working in some very big wheat fields in North Dakota, and so my job was actually swathing. So you'd be out there cutting wheat for 12 to 14 hours a day on a beautiful, treeless, expansive plain. Do we know who mowed the 86-47 into the field? They didn't mow it. They used chemicals to kill the grass, which was, again, a form of vandalism. And we did not have cameras on that either.

40:15They came during the night. And unfortunately, that one is going to remain a mystery.

40:21Katie Miller:Would you rather race George Washington on horseback or have Abraham Lincoln as your partner in a three-legged race? Oh, I'd like to race George Washington on horseback. That would be fun. Would you rather explain your job to a room full of toddlers or to a room full of TikTok influencers? Toddlers, I love toddlers. Toddlers are a lot of fun. But I would be interested in meeting some TikTok influencers because some of them are great. But man, there's a lot of, when 95 % of the information on TikTok is pro-Hamas, that's a scary stat. Would you rather always have wet socks or always have a pebble in your shoe?

41:01Wet socks. Okay.

41:04Katie Miller:Would you rather be chased by a bison in Yellowstone or by 100 angry geese on the National Mall?

41:15Our flag behind us has the bison. And as an undergrad, I was at North Dakota State and our team name was the bison. So I'm going to always go with the bison.

41:24Katie Miller:I've got a great, I have a great, what do you call it, my spirit animal is a bison. So then I don't think we'd be chasing. We'd be hanging out together. This is now my favorite question of the podcast unintentionally. So I hope you have a good answer. What's a conspiracy theory that you believe in? Well, if you believe it, then it's not a conspiracy theory, is it? What's a conspiracy theory you believe in? Well, this is, but I said if you believe it, is it a conspiracy theory? But, I mean, one thing for sure that I do worry about, which people think is a conspiracy theory, but it's actually true, which is there's a lot of foreign influence in building up the whole anti-artificial intelligence manufacturing in the U .S.

42:08I mean, the whole thing, like, oh, it's going to be water, your power rates are going to go up. I mean, all that is just not true. In my last years as governor, just recently, we brought a$1.2 billion data center to a town of 800 people in North Dakota with no impact on the water. And they're actually doing water capture. So there's actually extra water that's available for farmers, for irrigation, for a bunch of other uses. And they also were generating so much revenue by them paying their electrical bill in a rural co-op. Everybody else in the area got a rebate. Everybody else's electrical bill went down as opposed to went up.

42:50So the idea that somehow that automatically that if we're going to add manufacturing, in this case, you're manufacturing AI. So you add a new customer who's willing to pay for existing infrastructure. You know, it is you can actually end up with more water and lower electric rights, the exact opposite of what everybody is spreading on the airwaves. And now we have it crazy. We have local, we have states, we have local counties, we have school districts, everybody like putting out bans and moratoriums. You know who loves it when we ban the building of artificial intelligence, super intelligence?

43:23China loves that. We're being attacked every day in cyber wars. We have been for decades being attacked by these countries. And America has to wake up to that. And you know that when Elon bought Twitter, 40 % of the accounts, he went in there, 40 % of the accounts weren't people. They were often foreign influencers.

43:45Katie Miller:Fox over the weekend apologized for airing Kevin O 'Leary's comments saying that the anti-data center effort that he was referring to in Utah for his own data center was the CCP. Do you agree then with Fox apologizing, saying that the anti-data center effort was not CCP? I don't know why Fox would be apologizing about that. I mean, the OpenAI and other companies are releasing their own information about where they've uncovered where some of this information is coming from. And whether it's the CCP, if it's coming from a Chinese IP address, maybe it's somebody solo acting on their own behalf. But, yeah, no, we're in an AI arms race.

44:28We've been saying that for years. And this is one form of that AI arms race. is people want to use our democratic processes to slow us down in that competition.

44:36Katie Miller:Where do you get your news? Well, we're kind of, in terms of, we're living in the news, and so I try to get, I try to get my news like directly from other cabinet members or from the president as opposed to from other sources. I mean, we have a unique opportunity to actually get that information directly, and then again, and whether it's through security clearances we have, the National Security Council, the meetings we have, we have an opportunity. And it's just interesting to see the difference between what you know to be true and what's reported sometimes. What's the first app you open in the morning?

45:16I don't spend a lot of time on apps. I mean, I spend a lot of time on getting stuff done, which, and sometimes being online is a major distraction to that.

45:29Katie Miller:What's your favorite national park? Well, it would be... The Theodore Roosevelt? Yeah, I would have to say that just because it was the first place where I... First national park I ever had a chance to go to. And of course, it's special. It's a special place. Some national parks you go to and then you're like, where's the trailhead? And then you start and there's a trail and then you go on the trail and you have the same experience. at Theodore Roosevelt National Park you can pull a horse trailer into the most incredible overlook the Painted Canyon Overlook where you can see like you know unchanged Badlands as far as you can see and get your horse out of the trailer saddle them up and start riding and you can ride in any direction you want you don't have to take a trail and there are really no trails to take I mean it's just open ground so you really can have like a Theodore Roosevelt experience there.

46:25It's kind of like if you know if somebody was gonna if you're gonna if you're a surfer you go to the North Shore of Maui if you want to have an authentic Western horseback ride experience, Theodore Roosevelt National Park.

46:36Katie Miller:What's your favorite monument? Well one of the first ones and one of the ones that is just I mean I don't know if you're talking about ones we've built or national monuments that we have but I think you know Theodore Roosevelt with the Antiquities Act actually used it correctly and created national monuments that were... So now that I know your love for Theodore Roosevelt, I don't feel bad that I've been harassing you about Roosevelt Island. No, it's you and Stephen were the ones that tipped us off that we had missed that one, and thank you for that, Katie. Now I don't feel bad that I've been harassing you about this island.

47:06Your viewers should know that, that one of the reasons why the fountains were fixed at Theodore Roosevelt Island and why the graffiti was down and the dead squirrel was taken out of the pond was because you and Stephen called it in after you were there. Where can other Americans call in their park issues? Yes, well, yeah, call and cheer. Call me. We have a hotline.

47:27Katie Miller:You guys have a hotline? Well, we're going to create one now, now that I've announced it. But thank you for you and Stephen calling in, calling in the need for us to get after the fountains, the graffiti, and some other things, including the dead squirrel in the pond at the Theater Roosevelt Island, a little Theater Roosevelt Island right here in Washington, D.C., a great little getaway. Have you seen the monument? It's beautiful. It is beautiful. Catherine and I have hiked over there. It's fantastic. A gentle walk is what it is. If you could host a dinner party with three people, dead or alive, who's at the table and what are you eating?

48:00Well, this has been a dream of mine for a long time, and I don't want to just keep going back to TR, but the parlor game, this is the parlor game question, was if you could have dinner with someone, who would it be and what question would you ask them? And as part of the launch, which President Trump was there to dedicate the new Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library, the first library ever in honor of the person that helped transform our country in a very Trump-like way, I might say. The comparisons between the two of them are just remarkable between Roosevelt and Trump. And Roosevelt made a bunch of changes at the White House.

48:33Arguably, he made the most changes at the White House of anybody until, and that was 125 years ago when he was president, until now. And then he actually is the one that renamed it the White House. It was called the Executive Mansion. and then he's just like rebranded. I mean, so we got a president that rebrands stuff brilliantly. And then, so he rebranded the White House, and then he actually came up with the name, the bully pulpit, and had this unique relationship where he was using the press to reach the people. And both President Trump, President Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, had this deep connection with the working people in the country, even though they can't, both of them were successful, wealthy New Yorkers, but both of them had a better connection with the construction workers, the coal miners, the, I mean, President Roosevelt would be thrilled to know that on multiple occasions, President Trump has been surrounded by coal miners, you know, at the White House.

49:21So the, but President Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, when we created his library, it was meant to be not objects under glass, although there's many of the coolest objects of his life are there. The, including the glass, including the glasses case in the speech that the bullet went through that saved his life. You know, we've got that's now on display for the first time in the same place. And I think, you know, was that the best trip you've ever been on? Well, yes. Yes, it was. It was amazing to walk through. But then to have President Trump, your question you're asking is, who would you meet? President Trump got to meet A.I.

49:58Teddy. I mean, we've created a Theodore Roosevelt and they got to have a real conversation with each other. And we were leaving. And then President Trump, you know, they talked about the Panama Canal. They talked about some other things. Had this great president to president conversation and talking to peers and then we left and then President Trump said, I've got another question. And then went back in and asked some more questions about war, about peace. When do you...

50:27Katie Miller:What AI powers the Teddy? That's a Microsoft OpenAI solution, but it doesn't go out to the whole internet and grab stuff and hallucinate. It's a walled garden, as they might call it. But within it, it's every written and spoken word that Theodore, he wrote 44 books, more than virtually all the presidents combined. He gave, at the time, longer speeches than anyone. Now our current president is a powerful orator and can deliver and captivate large crowds with powerful long speeches. And so those are another thing that you guys have. But that's what's loaded in there. So when you ask him a question, A.I.

51:07Teddy answers in his own words. And so it was really cool to see this. So you're saying, who would you have dinner with and what question would you ask? I just witnessed the first time in history a president of the United States having a real genuine conversation with a former president that's no longer with us.

51:30Katie Miller:What would you be eating? Well, again, I said earlier, I mean, spaghetti is probably not very at that meeting, but if that was going to be my last meal, it would be a spaghetti with bison meat, actually. That was my go-to when I would cook for the kids. Really? Yeah. Thank you for doing this. Yes, thank you, and great to have you come over, and fun to have you here at Interior in this historic building, surrounded by all of the wonderful artwork that's part of the The Interior's, I mean, Interior has the, other than Smithsonian, Interior has the largest museum collection. No, no, come and bring the baby.

52:07Katie Miller:I'm just getting my baby. Okay. I am so excited and so honored to be the first guest that has a chance to be on your podcast with Hawthorne. Well, Hawthorne's beautiful. It's great that he could be here at Interior. And before you leave, you'll have a chance to see his first grizzly bear, the first polar bear, all of these things, exciting things you can see here. So thank you so much. Thank you, Katie. Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Katie Miller Podcast. We'll see you next week, 6 p.m. Tuesday nights.