In short
Tom Homan (Trump’s border/immigration enforcement strategist) argues the Trump administration is “deportation maxing,” claiming illegal immigration is down 96% and enforcement is record-high despite lawsuits and injunctions. He frames secure borders as “the most humane” approach and criticizes Biden-era border policies as deadly and cartel-linked.
Guest background
Tom Homan is a longtime immigration/border enforcement official who says he worked for six presidents, including starting in 1984. He previously led ICE and now oversees border security and “massive deportation” strategy across DHS components.
Key claims
ICE arrests are at record levels (e.g., June/July comparisons), targeting is improved, and priorities are public-safety threats first (about 62% criminal, 38% non-criminal). He says ICE does not arrest in elementary schools, hospitals, or churches.
Notable examples
He cites “over 100 nationwide injunctions,” Minnesota government shutdown funding effects, and the Flores settlement agreement’s impact on family detention. He also references a 19-dead tractor-trailer smuggling incident in Victoria, Texas (including a five-year-old) as formative.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to Border Enforcement
0:00 to 1:20
Learn about the impact of Trump’s border policies compared to previous administrations.
“Well, for a guy who spent his career on border enforcement, immigration enforcement, national security, no one's done it better.”
Tom Homan's Role and Experience
1:20 to 2:36
Understand Tom Homan's transition from ICE Director to Border Czar.
“We're close to live from the White House today with the one and only Tom Homan.”
Deportation Maxing Explained
2:36 to 4:00
Explore the concept of 'deportation maxing' and its implications for immigration enforcement.
“What do you think has been the most misunderstood part of border enforcement and interior enforcement?”
Judicial Challenges in Deportation
4:00 to 5:48
Delve into the legal challenges faced by ICE under the Trump administration.
“And when I tried to do this past few days, I said, wait a minute now.”
Public Perception of ICE
5:48 to 7:20
Discuss the public's perception of ICE and how the agency combats negative stereotypes.
“You know, we got, we're supposed to have 10 ,000 more ICE agents.”
Enforcement Operations and Community Impact
7:20 to 9:10
Learn about ICE's operational strategies and their impact on communities.
“If you're here illegally, you need to go home.”
Accountability in ICE Operations
9:10 to 11:20
Examine how ICE holds its officers accountable during enforcement actions.
“Now, I'm not gonna attack Secretary Noem.”
Accountability and Morale at ICE
14:00 to 17:06
Learn about the accountability measures in place at ICE and the current morale of officers.
“professional, they're violating policy, they're violating law.”
Facing Media Criticism and Threats
17:06 to 18:22
Hear about the impact of media criticism on ICE agents and personal security challenges.
“You're not afraid against going up against the legacy media.”
Tom Homan's Experience and Beliefs
18:22 to 20:24
Discover Tom Homan's perspective on his work and the current political climate.
“Better to have it and not need it than need not have it.”
Show all 21 chapters
Changing Views on Deportation
20:24 to 22:48
Explore how societal views on deportation have shifted over the years.
“I've worked for six presidents starting with Ronald Reagan.”
The Impact of False Rhetoric
22:48 to 25:18
Learn how media narratives and political rhetoric influence perceptions of ICE.
“He was killing Americans and aliens at record numbers.”
The Consequences of Non-Compliance
25:18 to 27:26
Understand the implications of non-compliance with ICE and law enforcement.
“if anybody's terrorizing immigrant communities is a representative of Congress who says that ICE are fascists.”
A Lighthearted Game with Serious Undertones
27:26 to 28:00
Engage in a fun 'Would You Rather' game that reveals Homan's priorities.
“Well, on that note, we're going to play a game.”
Engaging with College Students
28:00 to 29:18
The conversation explores ways to engage college students on ICE's mission.
“questions from liberal college students?”
Late-Night Calls with Trump
29:18 to 31:24
Tom shares his unique experiences of receiving late-night phone calls from President Trump.
“He calls me late at night because he may be on Air Force One flying from the West Coast, it'll be 2 a.m., but I've got a call at 4 a.m.”
Thoughts on DACA and Immigration Policy
31:24 to 33:18
Discussion on the implications of DACA and border security measures.
“I think people would be surprised to know that you have a female chief of staff.”
The Impact of the Flores Settlement Agreement
33:18 to 34:29
Tom reflects on the consequences of the Flores settlement on border security and family detention.
“And it caused, once that was happened, people started streaming across the country, across the border to be a part of that program.”
Personal Fears and Experiences
34:29 to 34:55
Tom opens up about his fears and the emotional impact of losing a child.
“Because I've talked to hundreds of angel moms and dads, and every time I talk to my heart breaks.”
Traumatic Experiences on ICE Raids
34:55 to 35:51
Tom shares a haunting experience he had during an ICE raid that left a lasting impression.
“So my biggest fear is it would be to bury one of my children.”
Hidden Talents and Future Aspirations
35:51 to 37:50
Discussion on Tom's hidden talents and aspirations for the future after his tenure.
“My hidden talent is no one can smoke a brisket or a slab of ribs better than me.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Tom Homan:Well, for a guy who spent his career on border enforcement, immigration enforcement, national security, no one's done it better. And I mean it. I've worked for six presidents, certainly around Reagan. They all cared about border security in some fashion. But no one's done more than President Trump. The success is unprecedented. The data proves it every day. And I'm happy just to be a small part of that. Let's talk about Joe Biden for a minute. When he opened the border up, over 4 ,000 aliens died making that joke. historic record quarter million Americans died from fentanyl that came across open border historic record don't talk about humanity he was killing Americans and aliens at record numbers President Trump has illegal immigration down 96 % which means 96 % less people are coming how many women aren't being raped by the cartels how many pounds of fentanyl isn't getting the country how many non-suspectators aren't coming to the country secure border is the most humane thing you can do we call it deportation maximum that's what we're doing you like that don't you I do like that one well look the biggest
0:55Katie Miller:Hashtag deportation maxing.
0:57Tom Homan:I do a lot of media. I mean, the White House media, council media, I've been around a long time. And again, I work for six different presidents. The media is not going to ask me a question that I can't answer. They might not like the answer, but they're not going to outsmart me.
1:19Katie Miller:Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Katie Miller Podcast. We're live, I would say. We're close to live from the White House today with the one and only Tom Homan. How are you, sir?
1:30Tom Homan:I'm doing good. How are you doing?
1:31Katie Miller:We were joking before we started that I've known you since the ripe old age of ICE director. How has this job, Borders Are, been different from ICE director?
1:41Tom Homan:Well, ICE, you know, as the ICE director, I, you know, oversaw a staff of 20 ,000 people, budgeted about$8 billion. So I was hands-on operations. At the White House here, I worked very closely with your husband, Steve Miller. or, you know, come up with strategies on how to succeed with the president's mission of not only securing the border at the highest level ever, but massive deportation. So I'm more of a strategy guy now than hands-on operations.
2:08Katie Miller:What's more fulfilling, ICE director or this job? This job. Why?
2:12Tom Homan:Because I have a bigger impact. As the ICE director, I can impact ICE. As the borders are, I impact CBP, I impact CIS, I impact ICE. and we have all a government approach. We have a conference call every day that brings in Department of War, State Department, a bigger impact on pushing strategy to different programs to meet President Trump's objectives.
2:35Katie Miller:To the outside observer, you could argue that both President Trump's first term and President Trump's second term, our immigration enforcement has appeared chaotic, whether that be in the first term with building the wall and I would say family separation, and now we have massive deportations. What do you think has been the most misunderstood part of border enforcement and interior enforcement?
3:01Tom Homan:Well, we call it deportation maxing. That's what we're doing. You like that, don't you? I do like that one. I'll start using that.
3:11Katie Miller:Hashtag deportation maxing. Yeah.
3:14Tom Homan:Hashtag border czar. Look, bottom line, the biggest misconception of what I've been fighting for the last few days, the misinformation fed by some people that we're not doing enough, right? For the last week or so, I've been pushing out. Look, June, we're always arresting more aliens than any month in the history of the agency. July, we're on track to even beat June, right? But, you know, people keep hanging on to, you know, a few months ago, the numbers were down because the government was shut down. Why was the government shut down? Because of Minnesota. How do I know that? Because I was up on the hill as part of the negotiating team trying to get them to open the government up.
3:49Tom Homan:And everything they brought up, Minnesota this, Minnesota that. So as soon as we got the reconciliation bill, we're fully funded. Now we're hitting on all cylinders. Deportation maxing now, right? But there are still people out there that says we're not doing enough. And when I tried to do this past few days, I said, wait a minute now. We're breaking records more than ever. And we're doing that despite the fact of the radical judges ruling against us at every turn. I looked at the numbers the other day. There's over 100 nationwide injunctions filed against President Trump, which is more than every other president combined.
4:29Katie Miller:right is that because i've seen a lot of pushback in recent days saying we're stymied at every corner of where we're turning for deportations because of how we're doing enforcement are you using existing laws and regulations on the books or are we trying new things that have never been
4:45Tom Homan:tried and that's why we're being sued no well that's a little bit of both right i mean the aliens enemies act i thought that was a good program uh but we're trying everything to to meet President Trump's goals, but we're enforcing, we get sued just on enforcing the law, right? Trying to reunite children with their parents in a foreign nation, we get sued. You know, detaining people that we think are mandatory detained by statute, we have a radical judge who says, no, you can't do that. So it's both. We're using, we're actually enforcing the law, which the last administration didn't, but we're coming up with new concepts and we get sued on them too.
5:20Again, over a hundred, hundred nationwide injunctions,
5:24Tom Homan:which is more than every other president combined. But despite that, despite that we got, you know, like 65 ,000 habeas cases that we couldn't detain these people and remove them, despite the sanctuary city's explosions, right, despite all of this stuff, ICE is making record arrests.
5:42Katie Miller:Is it more bodies in the field? Is that why ICE is increasing their interior arrests, or is it a different strategy?
5:48Tom Homan:Bodies, bodies, additional bodies. You know, we got, we're supposed to have 10 ,000 more ICE agents. I think we're at about 7 ,500 right now. But ICE is doing this on their own. If you compare it to first year under Trump, remember we did this all federal approach. We had FBI, DEA, ATF, they were all helping us in this nationwide surge. Now they're back to their main mission since we hired all these ERO officers. So it's about the same, it's about even. But we do better targeting and that is the main driver, better targeting. I go around a few offices.
6:24Katie Miller:Is the administration still prioritizing criminals, or who's the current prioritization? President Trump has made it clear from day one, we prioritize public safety threats first.
6:32Tom Homan:Another misconception, oh, home alone only cares about the criminals. I don't. Just because you prioritize the biggest public safety threats doesn't mean we forget about everybody else. If you look at the numbers, it just says yesterday, it's about 62 % criminal and 38 % non-criminal. I like that. I think it's better than saying 38 % criminal in 62, but, you know, I would rather have more criminals than non-criminalists. But the number shows we're almost even on criminals and non-criminalists. We're arresting everybody we find.
7:01Katie Miller:Do you believe that someone who's been here, say, for 30 years, who is a productive member of society, we're saying somebody's nanny or a housekeeper or someone who's participating in, you know, society in a different way, contributing member, that they should still be eligible for deportation if they're here illegally?
7:18Tom Homan:Yes. If you're here illegally, you need to go home. Because the message we send, Katie, is that if you enter the country illegally, it's a crime, but don't worry about it. You can get order removed by a judge and not leave. Don't worry about it. If you don't commit yet another crime beyond illegal entry, you're good to go. If that's the message we want to send the whole world, we're never going to fix this problem.
7:44Katie Miller:Has there been a moment where you thought, this is exactly why President Trump hired me for this job?
7:49Tom Homan:I know it is because the first conversation, he told me exactly what he wanted me to do. He wanted me to oversee the largest deportation operation. He wanted me to oversee the secure border. And he wanted me to find missing children that were released under Biden administration to unvetted sponsors. That's exactly what I'm doing. So I'm doing exactly what he asked me on the very first phone call he made.
8:08Katie Miller:What's your relationship like with the new DHS Secretary Mullen?
8:12Tom Homan:Good. We talk every day, several times a day sometimes. times. We're not going to agree on everything.
8:19Katie Miller:I was just about to ask if you disagree with any of his recent actions.
8:22Tom Homan:Yeah, we disagree on some things, but we end up coming to the middle, right? Well, I think that makes a great team. I mean, me and Steve Miller sometimes disagree, but you have different opinions coming to the table, then we walk out of there with a great plan. Look, a lot of success we have is because of that very, I may not think of something and someone else comes to say, well, why don't we do it this way instead? You know what? That might make sense. Then we have that conversation. Then we end up with a great product.
8:49Katie Miller:How is your relationship different with Secretary Mullen than it is with Secretary Noem? Secretary Mullen calls me.
8:58Tom Homan:I've been doing this for four decades. He relies on my counsel. And I've been around a long time. I started in 1984, so I know where the bodies are buried. I know what works, what doesn't. I've worked for six different presidents. I know what policies worked, what policies didn't. So he leverages that a lot. Now, I'm not gonna attack Secretary Noem. I'm just saying Mark, Wayne, Mullen, and me have a lot more communication when it comes to what I've known that worked from the past, what didn't work from the past. So again, we talk just about every day.
9:28Katie Miller:What misconceptions frustrate ICE officers the most?
9:36That we have no strategy.
9:38Tom Homan:They think they think they hate reading, you know, by the the the press that we're just out terrorizing families, terrorizing neighborhoods and in their crew and inhumane. And, you know, I was an ice agent. And I'm telling you, I said it yesterday at a press conference. People need to remember their moms and dads, too. Right. They don't hang their heart on a hook when they come to work. They're enforcing the law. So rather than attacking them for enforcing law, go yell at Congress. They wrote the law. I mean, we're not making this up. So they get sick of the constant attacks for simply doing their job, which they've done for decades.
10:21Tom Homan:But under the Trump 47, the left has gone crazy. And they have the vilification of ICE, the hateful rhetoric of ICE, the attacks on ICE at an all-time high. And it's frustrating these men and women. They think they're getting up, putting a gun on their hip, putting a Kevlar vest on to go arrest bad people. They would think they have America's support. They do, a majority, but they have trouble accepting the fact there's a lot of people in this country that simply hate their guts.
10:48Katie Miller:There was a poly market bet recently about ICE changing their name to NICE. Do you think that's a possibility?
10:54Tom Homan:No, actually, you know, I think it's well known because the president said it. You know, the president had an idea. I can understand why he wanted to go that way, to try to play the media against themselves. But, you know, I was an ICE agent. I know these ICE agents. And they simply didn't want it. I mean, again, they go out there and do a dangerous job for us and dangerous people. They're proud of their name. They don't think they need a caveat with something called an ICE.
11:21Katie Miller:I had a friend up in Chicago who called me the day that there was that story about how the ICE officer ran into the daycare after a target. What do you want moms to know who are scared about ICE around their schools or in their communities and protecting their children?
11:38Tom Homan:There hasn't been one instance, not a single instance, where ICE has arrested anybody in an elementary school. They haven't arrested anybody in a hospital. They haven't arrested anybody in a church. It just hasn't happened. And so if they're chasing somebody into a city, they're in a hot pursuit, but they They have not done interior enforcement operations, enforcement operations inside these. You know, we don't have the sense of location policy anymore, but the men and women rights are professionals. I mean, they just simply don't do it. And I've challenged, you know, I see media all the time.
Read the full transcript
12:12Tom Homan:You know, the left is saying about how we're in the sense of locations and arresting people and separating families. Just give me one example. Well, we've done enforcement action, a planned enforcement action inside the one. We haven't done it. Matter of fact, I say it a lot. The only one that violated the sanctity of the church was Don Lemon and that group. We've never went to church to enforce a person.
12:33Katie Miller:Could you argue that from time to time that ICE officers, due to the heightened nature of what they're doing and the constant attacks on them when they're out in the community, that it can cause them to slip up or have mistakes?
12:45Tom Homan:Mistakes are made every—mistakes are always made. Mistakes are made by all law enforcement officers. but mistakes sometimes will increase when there are such pressure knowing that you know crowd will form you know and and they know that the the assaults are up 1400 percent they know threats of assault up 9 000 they know that vehicle attacks using vehicles and weapons up like 1600 so yeah they go out every day with that in back of their mind and i and that just takes them I want to have full focus on that mission, resting that bad guy, rather than worrying about, you know, being sued, you know, people out there interfering and impeding what they're doing.
13:29Tom Homan:That's when people get hurt. So, yeah, they got a lot more pressure down the head just because of the rhetoric that's out there.
13:34Katie Miller:When ICE is involved in something that leads to the unintentional death of somebody while they're out doing their job, what goes on internal to the agency? And are you guys doing additional training?
13:47Tom Homan:Well, let me answer first part first. So when I went to Minnesota, the president Trump sent to Minnesota, one of the first things I did was bring more internal affairs, ICE officers to the city because of the complaints made, they're acting professional, they're violating policy, they're violating law. So we brought more internal affairs investigators in because we will hold our officers responsible. I sat in day one. Matter of fact, I think several, at least two officers from the Minnesota, Minnesota operators have been indicted, did something wrong. It's unfortunate because it puts a stain on the 99 % of officers doing things right away.
14:21Tom Homan:So we're going to hold the officers accountable, whether they violate policy or violate the law. When it comes to deaths during an incident where there's death, the FBI usually leads the investigation, especially if it's a shooting investigation. But if it's an impediment, they put hands on a nice officer and there's a struggle and we want to arrest them for assault, usually HSI will handle that. They'll be the lead, along with internal affairs. Internal Affairs will work with FBI and HSI on any investigation. So, you know, Internal Affairs will look at, did you violate policy? Did you act unbecoming of an officer?
14:56Tom Homan:And while the FBI and HSI is looking at the criminal conduct. What's morale like at ICE right now? Morale is higher than it's ever been because they're getting to do their job. Last four years, ICE agents are morales in the toilet because they simply couldn't, weren't allowed to enforce laws that they're supposed to enforce. They couldn't uphold the oath they took. So now they're happy. And morale's up. The only thing that has any effect on morale right now is the constant attacks by the media. I mean, it affects them. I mean, you know, even back to, you know, Secretary Mayorkas with the horse patrol.
15:31Tom Homan:I mean, you watch these men in the border patrol, did nothing. No, when that tape came out, I looked at it. I watched it on TV. I said, wait, they didn't do anything wrong. Not only did they act exactly as trained. The horses performed exactly as trained. But, you know, the president, the vice president, Mayorkas, come out and says, you know, they're strapping black people. And next you know, it's not that the officers that were put in the penalty box while the investigation went on, but their families. One of the officers of wife and kids were bullied in schools. Your dad's racist. So, you know, that still continues.
16:05Tom Homan:I mean, families of ICE officers are concerned not only for their officers, their husbands, their father's safety, but their own safety. Because the doxing and the attacks are not just against the officers, it's against their spouses and children, too.
16:18Katie Miller:But yet recruiting at ICE has never been better. Yes, because they know they're going to come in and make this country safe again.
16:24Tom Homan:And they're going to be able to do the job. They'll be able to uphold the oath they took to enforce the laws of this country.
16:30Katie Miller:In the four years prior to President Trump taking office a second time, ICE was really kneecapped as an agency. Did you find when you came in that the culture was an issue, especially with field office directors not knowing how to arrest those in the community?
16:43Tom Homan:It was a learning curve because especially anybody who was hired in the last four years, they were simply coming to work, checking a box and not doing real hardcore enforcement. So we came back at the four years. Okay, let's turn up the heat. Let's sit in all cylinders. Let's do some deportation maxing. Some of these guys were, okay, haven't done that. I've been in three years. We haven't done that. So it was a learning curve. Of course, learning curve for some.
17:11Katie Miller:You're not afraid against going up against the legacy media. Does any of their criticism ever get under your skin?
17:17Tom Homan:No. I don't give a shit what people say about me. I never have. Bottom line is I go to bed every night, lay my head in a pillow, knowing I'm doing the right thing for the greatest president of my lifetime. I truly believe that and we're making this country safe again. If people don't like what Tom Homan does and ICE does, then go yell at Congress telling them to change the laws. Until then, we're going to force the law.
17:37Katie Miller:You told the reporters yesterday that you can't even go to your grocery store anymore without security detail. How has your life changed since taking this job? And do you feel like it's different than even when you were on TV in the intermediate four years?
17:49Tom Homan:Much worse now. The threats are a lot higher. Me and my wife live apart. Well, she could live with me, but I just, I get uncomfortable. Because the threats have been at my home, too. So, I got no privacy at this point, right? I mean, I can't go to the gym, can't go to the grocery store. I don't know if security deals. And I get it. It's necessary because of the threats. But they're not going to threaten me in not doing my job. They're not threatening me to go. I'm not going anywhere. Do you still carry a weapon? Absolutely. Better to have it and not need it than need not have it.
18:27Katie Miller:Do you think that's a reflection of today's political climate or of the way the media has portrayed you?
18:32Tom Homan:Both. I think a lot of the media is dishonest. There's no good media out there, but a lot of them either are dishonest or they don't understand. Right? So, you know, I'm not running a popularity contest. I'm not going to spend all day long trying to convince people that I'm a good guy, I'm doing the right thing. I ain't got time for that. But the political environment right now is the worst I've ever seen it since I joined Federal Service in 1984. It has never been this bad.
19:00Katie Miller:What's your daily routine?
19:04Tom Homan:Wake up, come to, on the way into work, I have security details. Usually I'm sitting in the back seat reading the 24-hour prior data. Because I know at 10 a.m. when we sit in the skiff with Steve Miller, who's going to ask a lot of in-depth questions. I want to be able to answer them. And 10 o 'clock every morning, unless it's been canceled, I sit in a skiff with Steve Miller and the entire team here, representatives from the EOW, State Department, CIS, to make sure we're all working together, if there's any issues, how can we address the issues. Then usually it's meetings. I spend a lot of time with ICE and CBP, since Mark Wayne Mullins asked me to kind of oversee those portfolios.
19:45Tom Homan:So I spend a lot of time with them. Then I do a lot of media. I mean, the White House media, Council of the Media, I've been around a long time. And again, I worked for six different presidents. The media is not going to ask me a question that I can't answer. They might not like the answer, but they're not going to outsmart me.
20:02Katie Miller:When you go to bed at night, you put your head on the pillow. Do you think, man, I've made the world a better, safer place today?
20:09Tom Homan:Depends on the day. Sometimes I lay my head on a pillow and I'm pissed off. But, you know, I really, truly believe what I'm doing. It's the right thing to do. And I mean this. When people say, why are you around? You know, President Trump isn't the greatest president. Well, for a guy who spent his career on border enforcement, immigration enforcement, national security, no one's done it better. And I mean it. I've worked for six presidents starting with Ronald Reagan. They all cared about border security in some fashion. But no one's done more than President Trump. The success is unprecedented.
20:44Tom Homan:The data proves it every day. I'm happy just to be a small part of that.
20:47Katie Miller:Do you want to be the DHS secretary at some point? Why not?
20:51Tom Homan:I'm not interested in overseeing TSA. Look, they're great organizations. I'm a border guy. I started a border until 1984. My whole 42 years is border immigration enforcement. I'm comfortable where I am. Is President Trump one of his top, top priorities?
21:09Katie Miller:Do you think ICE was more hardcore, say, 20 years ago than it is today? No.
21:15Tom Homan:I think they're as tough today as they were. when I was an agent a long time ago. I think it's more hardcore because they got to grow thicker skin. I mean, it's just, back when I was an agent, you didn't have media attacking. You didn't have people, you know, 200 people showing up to your house protesting you. Now, you got to grow thicker skin.
21:34Katie Miller:But were you able to arrest more easily 20 years ago?
21:38Tom Homan:Yes. When I was an agent, the 20 years I was in the field, I never saw a protest at an ICE arrest scene. I never saw the media attack ICE.
21:51Katie Miller:Why do you think American society has moved to saying that deportations are a bad thing when 20 years ago even Democrats were for them and you were able to do your job so much more easily, deport tons of people without so much as, you know, anyone caring?
22:06Tom Homan:I really think it has to do with our president and the hatred for this president. They didn't want to see the president succeed. I truly believe that because I actually got an award from President Obama for removing the record number of illegal aliens. President Obama gave me a word because we removed 409 ,000 people that year. What's turned the tide is the false rhetoric, hateful rhetoric by the media, you know, about the inhumane policies of the Trump administration. That's why I'm out there every day saying, wait a minute now, inhumanity. Let's talk about Joe Biden for a minute. When he opened the border up, over 4 ,000 aliens died making that journey.
22:43Tom Homan:Historic record. Quarter million Americans died from fentanyl that came across the open border. Historic record. Don't talk about humanity. He was killing Americans and aliens at record numbers. President Trump has illegal immigration down 96%, which means 96 % less people are coming. How many women aren't being raped by the cartels? How many pounds of fentanyl isn't getting the country? How many non-suspectaries aren't coming to the country? Secure border is the most humane thing you can do.
23:07Katie Miller:But I understand those stats very well, and I think it's very important for people to hear them. But when you hear big numbers like that and you're just a mom, you know, who wants to take care of your kids and say you're listening to Miss Rachel, who's sitting outside Dilley, saying how bad it is that we've done. I say we, the administration has done family detention to be able to remove families back to their home country more quickly. You know, what I want to hear is when you were an agent 20 years ago, you were able to go and deport these families, remove them together. You were able to do these deportations.
23:39Katie Miller:And largely society thought that was a good thing. You had Harry Reid on the Senate floor back in the 90s saying that birthright citizenship was an insane concept. Why has it that society has moved so far?
23:55Tom Homan:Again, there's a lot of reasons. I think the media has moved people far to the left because they're false reporting. I think the colleges, I speak my own experience with one of my sons, that they move people to the far left. Look, I read the press releases every day. 98 % is negative, right? They misstate what we're actually doing. And, you know, they want to talk about, and I think a lot of people don't understand. I understand why someone breaks law, comes to this country, make a better life for themselves. I get that. But people need to understand. You say, well, it's just innocent illegal immigration.
24:33Tom Homan:No, it's not. First of all, there are millions of people standing in line, taking their tests, doing their background investigation, paying their fees to be part of the greatest nation on earth. And people cheated. They entered the country illegally, which is a crime, they cheated. So for every illegal alien in this country that came across that border illegally, they cheated the system. We can't forget that. So what do you say to the millions standing in line trying to do things the right way? They're sitting in the back of the bus. The same thing with, well, these people are coming across to claim asylum.
24:59Tom Homan:What American people don't know is 9 out of 10 asylum claims ends up with an order of removal because they simply don't qualify for asylum. But while they're clogging up the courts with hundreds of thousands of asylum claims, there are actually people in this world that needs asylum protection. Now they're sitting in the back seat because they clog the courts up. But between the media and members of Congress who will spew lies about ICE, if anybody's terrorizing immigrant communities is a representative of Congress who says that ICE are fascists. They're the Nazis. They're the secret police. Which is why I think some of the recent tragedies have happened.
25:36Tom Homan:People think it's okay not to comply with ICE now. Because they're hearing over and over again, they're not a real law enforcement agency. So you can't impede. You can't interfere. You don't have to comply with them. I said yesterday, I took a lot of hate for the left. The recent shootings, as tragic as they were, if they simply would have complied with federal law enforcement agencies on a road stop, they probably wouldn't be dead. I don't think they deserve to die, but if they would have simply complied with law enforcement, tragedy can be avoided. You can take action. If I get pulled over by Virginia State Police and he violates policy or mistreats me, there's an avenue to address that.
26:17Tom Homan:But the option isn't to run or try to hit him with your car or not to comply. These are law enforcement officers that stopped me for a reason. Comply. Find out what it's about.
26:28Katie Miller:Why does it seem like all of these compliance failures happen in blue states and not red states?
26:35Tom Homan:Because while they're here in blue states, again, whether it's governors or mayors or sanctuary cities, the ICE are bad. They're bad people. They violate people's civil rights. You know, they're acting as a secret police. I hear it in every blue state so I think these people some, not everybody, some are conditioned that don't take ICE seriously and beyond that when they keep hearing this hateful rhetoric that ICE is on Nazis or secret police there's going to be that small percentage of crazy people who just need an excuse to do something to harm an ICE agent so I said from day one, way back three months into this administration, if the hateful rhetoric continues to increase, there will be bloodshed.
27:26Tom Homan:Unfortunately, I'm right.
27:28Katie Miller:Well, on that note, we're going to play a game. Would you rather? Would you rather have every sanctuary city cooperate with ICE or have Congress permanently fund every border security priority on your list?
27:41Tom Homan:And sanctuary cities. Less criminal islands hit the street makes the country safer.
27:48Katie Miller:Would you rather catch one notorious cartel leader or dismantle five human trafficking operations?
27:54Tom Homan:Come on. Both.
27:59Katie Miller:Would you rather debate your biggest TV critic live on TV or spend a day fielding questions from liberal college students?
28:07Tom Homan:College students. I think if they actually knew ICE's mission and actually know what ICE does and doesn't do, we can win hearts and minds. We're not going to win the hearts and minds of the left media.
28:19Katie Miller:Would you rather have to make a TikTok dance with Border Patrol agents or take your chances and eat unwashed lettuce?
28:30Tom Homan:I'll do the dance because when I retire, I'm going to do interpretive dance and tell stories through my dance.
28:38Katie Miller:That would be a real banger for you to do a TikTok dance.
28:41Tom Homan:Just wait for that.
28:43Katie Miller:Next trip. Would you rather lose air conditioning for a week or wear flip-flops to the White House forever?
28:51Tom Homan:I'll wear flip-flops. I think the boss might get upset. He likes black shoes. Yeah, he does. I don't think flip-flops will work.
28:59Katie Miller:How often do you speak with President Trump?
29:02Tom Homan:Several times a week.
29:04Katie Miller:What's the earliest he's called you in the morning and the latest he's called you at night?
29:09Tom Homan:I've gotten calls at 2 a.m. I've gotten calls at 4 a.m.
29:14Katie Miller:It's not a wide gap there.
29:16Tom Homan:There's times where I'm sleeping. He calls me late at night because he may be on Air Force One flying from the West Coast, it'll be 2 a.m., but I've got a call at 4 a.m. And he's here.
29:25Katie Miller:Do you pretend you're awake when he calls you?
29:28Tom Homan:No, a couple of times, the first thing he says, hey, what are you doing? It's 4 o 'clock in the morning, so I'm sleeping. It's Sunday. One of the phone calls was, hey, what do you think about ICE in airports? I said, I think it's a brilliant idea. He goes, good, you're running it starting tomorrow. So, look.
29:43Katie Miller:Is ICE still in airports? No.
29:45Tom Homan:We did that for a couple of days. Number one, make sure the airports are secure because so many TSA agents left. And also, you know, to help fill those gaps and help American people travel quicker. I thought it was a great idea.
29:56Katie Miller:But wouldn't it be easy, though, for TSA to share their lists, say, with ICE and catch people as they're going through airport security? Seems like a very easy targeting operation to me.
30:05Tom Homan:Who says we're not?
30:07Katie Miller:I just asked you if ICE was in airports. What's a conspiracy theory that you believe in?
30:15Tom Homan:I don't believe in conspiracy theories at all.
30:17Katie Miller:You've got to have one.
30:18Tom Homan:No, I don't. A conspiracy theory I believe in? Yes. I don't. None. Zero.
30:28Katie Miller:What's the first app you open in the morning?
30:31Tom Homan:First app?
30:32Katie Miller:Yep.
30:33Tom Homan:Well, there's internal apps, but first app?
30:37Katie Miller:Yeah. You open your phone. What happens next?
30:41Tom Homan:I read my emails. White House emails. Then I look at one White House emails has like 20 pages of data from the last 24 hour operations. That's the first thing I look at as soon as I get into the vehicle. First thing I do is open up my phone and look at the data.
30:59Katie Miller:Who's your best friend in the administration?
31:02Tom Homan:My chief of staff.
31:04Katie Miller:That's so nice.
31:05Tom Homan:She's brilliant. She works as hard, probably harder than I do. and, you know, she's got my six and she took a huge, huge pay cut to come work with me. That says everything you need to know about her. She put country first and I love that.
31:24Katie Miller:I think people would be surprised to know that you have a female chief of staff.
31:28Tom Homan:She's brilliant. I'm not picked based on sex. I'm based on because she's smart.
31:33Katie Miller:Has he done this before? This is like so nice.
31:37Tom Homan:No, she's brilliant. She's one of the smartest people I've met. You know, I'm not, I'm not gonna blow smoke. Let me tell you this, the most brilliant person that I've met in my lifetime is your husband. He's just, he's scary, smart. And I've been doing this since 1984. And I sit in meetings and my chief of staff would tell you he'll come up with something. I just look at him. I haven't heard that in 35 years. Where the hell did you get that from? People can say what they want about Stephen Miller. One thing they can't say, he's not brilliant. One is smart. Probably the smartest person I've ever met in my life.
32:13Tom Homan:He's brilliant.
32:14Katie Miller:That's so nice. Well, thank God. It has to be Mary Jew. Thank God my kids have both genetics.
32:22Katie Miller:Who is your best friend in the administration? Who's your best friend in Congress? Or who do you talk to the most?
32:29Tom Homan:Chip Roy. Chip Roy, I think he's on the tip of the spear when it comes to immigration enforcement. He helped along with other people on HR2, which I thought was a great bill.
32:39Katie Miller:Who's giving you the dumbest advice from Congress? That's like, I know how to fix this, and they do not know how to fix this.
32:45Tom Homan:I'm not going there. What's the
32:48Katie Miller:worst border advice you've ever gotten?
32:52Tom Homan:Worst border advice ever? I can't remember. I don't know.
32:58Katie Miller:Who's the worst DHS secretary you've ever worked with? Is it Kirshen Nielsen?
33:05Tom Homan:Do you know Napolitano?
33:07Katie Miller:Why?
33:08Tom Homan:Because she awarded DACA. I think DACA is illegal. I think it is something that was one of the biggest mistakes in this country because it caused a huge issue. And it caused, once that was happened, people started streaming across the country, across the border to be a part of that program.
33:27Katie Miller:What's your biggest?
33:28Tom Homan:I respect her career for the government. Let me get them. She was a U.S. attorney. I expect to come to the Department of Homeland Security. But I think for them, even after the president says it's illegal, I can't do it, they did it anyways? I can't respect that.
33:45Katie Miller:Do you think that's when interior enforcement and the border became an absolute mess?
33:50Tom Homan:I think the worst decision in the history of this nation, in my opinion, when it comes to border security is the Florida Settlement Agreement by Federal Judge Dolly G. That one decision she made, and I said this in my affidavit, if this happens, you're going to see families coming across the border like you've never seen before. I was called a fear-monger, but I was right. Hundreds of thousands of families put themselves in harm's way to come across the border after that Flores settlement agreement.
34:21Katie Miller:Without Flores, you wouldn't have family detention. You'd just be able to send them home.
34:26Tom Homan:Without Flores, we would have saved a lot of lives. A lot less children would have died. A lot less families would have died. It was a terrible decision.
34:34Katie Miller:What's your biggest irrational fear?
34:37Tom Homan:What's my biggest fear?
34:38Katie Miller:Yeah.
34:39Tom Homan:Burying one of my children.
34:41Katie Miller:That's so sad.
34:43Tom Homan:Because I've talked to hundreds of angel moms and dads, and every time I talk to my heart breaks. And it's just, you should, your parent, your kids should always bury their parents, not the other way around. So when I hear these stories, it breaks my heart. So my biggest fear is it would be to bury one of my children.
35:01Katie Miller:What's one case that always sticks with you?
35:03Tom Homan:Lake O 'Reilly.
35:05Katie Miller:Is there ever an ICE raid that you went on that has stuck with you?
35:13I was in Dallas giving a speech to the ICP.
35:18Tom Homan:Commissioner, the director of ICE at the time was John Martin. I got a phone call to go to Victoria, Texas on a human smuggling tragic incident. He knew I spent most of her career on that and went down and stood in the back of a tractor-trailer with 19 dead people, including a five-year-old boy that baked to death. That changed me forever.
35:39Katie Miller:That's still happening. Yeah.
35:43Tom Homan:Well, it's not happening right now. I mean, it's just tractor-trailer smug. Luckily, under President Trump, we haven't had that kind of tragedy.
35:51Katie Miller:What's your hidden talent? What kind of talent?
35:55Tom Homan:Interpret a dance?
35:58Katie Miller:Can you really? No.
36:01Tom Homan:My hidden talent is no one can smoke a brisket or a slab of ribs better than me. Every weekend I'm smoking some sort of meat, drinking a pass through a ribbon, listening to the whole country music.
36:18Katie Miller:What kind of smoker do you have?
36:20Tom Homan:I got a couple. I got a side box. I got a Traeger. Traeger's cheating. So I like using a side box, but I'll use both. Why is it cheating? Because the side box, you got to keep loading the wood. You got to check the bench. You got to check the temperature. Traeger, you just sit it and forget it.
36:37Katie Miller:If you could host a dinner party with three people dead or alive, who's coming to the table and what are you eating?
36:43Tom Homan:Of course, President Trump's going to be one of are they alive or dead?
36:49Katie Miller:Alive or dead? Dealer's choice.
36:51Tom Homan:My mom and dad. We're no longer with us. Just one more meal with them.
36:58Katie Miller:Tom Homan has the biggest heart and yet everyone thinks you don't.
37:03Tom Homan:Look, people think, I don't hang my heart on a hook either with ICE agents. I had a great mom and dad. I grew up in a small town, kind of like a Mayberry. Everybody knew everybody. Every mother in that village spanked me at one time or another. I had a great childhood. And what scares me that we don't have that same childhood with a lot of children today. But yeah, my mom and dad and President Trump, that'd be awesome. Because, look, I'm proud of what I've done. Went from a small town called West Carthage, population 2 ,400. Went from West Carthage to the West Wing. I would love my parents to see that and meet the president.
37:44Tom Homan:That's an honest answer. As quirky as it sounds, that's the answer to your question.
37:49Katie Miller:What are you eating for dinner?
37:50Tom Homan:Tonight?
37:51Katie Miller:No, with your three people, with your mom, your dad, and President Trump.
37:58Tom Homan:My mom's spaghetti and meatballs.
38:01Katie Miller:And what are you eating tonight?
38:03Tom Homan:Tonight I got left before a brisket. That's what you got.
38:08Katie Miller:What are you most looking forward to in the year ahead?
38:13Tom Homan:When I'm done with this administration, I just want to fish. I want to go to my lake house and fish and relax and spend time with my beautiful wife.
38:23Katie Miller:How's she doing?
38:25Tom Homan:She's great. She's a patriot. She's putting up with all this bullshit because she knows it's the right thing to do for this country.
38:30Katie Miller:Thank you for doing this, Tom.
38:32Tom Homan:You got it.
38:33Katie Miller:Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Katie Miller Podcast. We'll see you next Tuesday night, 6 p.m., everywhere you get your podcasts. See you then. Thank you.
From the publisher
Katie Miller sits down with Border Czar Tom Homan to break down the unprecedented success at the southern border, how they’re cleaning up Biden’s mess, the latest call he’s ever received from the President, whether ICE will get renamed to NICE, and so much more. Tune in!