Awaiting Closure

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0:34Tomorrow, Brian Koberger will be sentenced. The former Ph.D. student has officially pled guilty to the heinous murders of Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kurnodel, and Ethan Chapin, the four University of Idaho students killed in an off-campus home in 2022. Now, the thing is, we already know what Koberger's sentence is likely to be. As part of his plea deal, his defense and the prosecution agreed that he'll serve four consecutive life sentences, one for each murder. He will not face the death penalty, and he has no ability to appeal. The final decision is still up to the judge, but the sentencing part of tomorrow's proceeding is likely a bit of a formality.

1:22Still, this hearing is significant for other reasons. It's the one and only opportunity for the victim's families, friends, and Brian Koberger himself to speak in court. I'm ABC News correspondent Kena Whitworth, and this is the King Road Killings, awaiting closure.

1:54By this point of the summer, I thought I'd be preparing to cover Brian Koberger's trial. So did Ada County Judge Stephen Hippler. In fact, he'd ordered that no other trials take place in the Boise Courthouse this week so they could get ready to process some 10 ,000 possible jurors. Instead, the court is now using that time to give the victim's friends and family the chance to speak about their loss and to officially sentence Koberger. Sentencing marks the end of Idaho's criminal case against Koberger, but it will also pave the way for another really important piece of this story, lifting the gag order.

2:35Last week, Judge Hitler decided to lift the non-dissemination order that kept a lot of information about this case under wraps and banned police and prosecutors, as well as the defense, from disclosing more details about the investigation. For now, all sealed documents are going to remain sealed, at least until after sentencing. But for the first time in nearly two and a half years, police and prosecutors are allowed to talk more freely about this case if they want to. And some of them are, but they're being very cautious. Moscow Police Chief Anthony Dollinger says they'll release more information and they want to be transparent.

3:21But their priority is to the victims' families. The Moscow Police Department, we've been focused on the victims and bringing justice for the victims. That was our focus and that was our mission, correct? And the mission was accomplished. We're also already starting to learn some new details about the investigation and Koberger himself. We spoke with former Pullman, Washington Police Chief Gary Jenkins. He assisted Moscow PD with their investigation. Chief Jenkins said that before the murders, Koberger interviewed for an intern position with his department, but he wasn't selected. He didn't come across as very personable.

4:04So when Koberger's name was brought up in connection with the murders, the chief says he was shocked. The hair in the back of my neck stood out because I knew I was going to hear something really significant. and they said his name and I just, I guess I got chills because I knew that I had talked with him before and this person had allegedly committed these just heinous crimes.

4:39In the coming weeks and months, we expect an avalanche of investigative documents to come out on this case. I'll continue to follow this story as it unfolds and keep you posted. But for now, Brian Koberger still needs to be formally sentenced. His hearing starts tomorrow, Wednesday, and could continue into Thursday if necessary. This time, instead of wearing a tie and slacks, the convicted murderer, Brian Koberger, will arrive at the courtroom wearing handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit. Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna, and Ethan's family and friends will have the chance to give victim impact statements. They'll be able to tell the court and Koberger directly, if they want to, how these murders have impacted their lives.

5:31It could be their only opportunity to address Koberger face-to-face. This hearing might also be the last chance for Koberger to speak to the judge to address the families. in this forum. Then the judge will likely tell Koberger that he'll spend the rest of his natural life in prison. He could be sent to the Idaho Maximum Security Institution. The prison has a capacity of roughly 550 inmates, most of whom have a history of dangerous behavior or disciplinary violations while incarcerated.

6:12To help us better understand Koberger's plea and what to expect from this upcoming sentencing hearing, I'm here with ABC News legal contributor and practicing defense attorney Brian Buckmeyer. Brian, thanks for being with me. My pleasure, Kena. Thank you for having me. Of course. And ABC legal analyst and former California homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy. Matt, thanks for being here. Happy to be here. So I want to talk to you guys first about some of the new information that we learned during this change of plea hearing. It was stunning. And it's important to note here that while Brian Koberger did change his plea to guilty, he admitted to murdering Maddie, Kaylee, Zanna, and Ethan.

6:52The prosecution laid out their own narrative of what they think happened that night. And it was sprinkled with new details. And Brian Koberger himself has not admitted to these new details, these specifics of what the prosecution laid out. But I do want to go over some of it with you guys. I'll tick through them quickly here, gentlemen, and we'll talk about what Bill Thompson, the lead prosecutor, said. We learned for the first time, according to him, where they believe Brian Koberger parked his car. They think he parked his car sort of on this hill above and behind the King Road home. They think he entered the home through a sliding glass door that's on the second floor.

7:33and then they believe he killed Madison Mogan first and then Kaylee Gonsalves. And then reading directly from the prosecutor's narrative here, he says, as the defendant was either coming down the stairs or leaving, he encountered Zana and ended up killing her also with a large knife. Ethan Chapin, Zana's boyfriend, was asleep in her bedroom and the defendant killed him as well with a large fixed blade knife. In terms of the narrative, Brian, there's been this swirling question of who really was the target. And I use the word target because that is the word law enforcement used at the onset of this case.

8:16This was targeted. And we still don't know who that was. And Brian, the lead prosecutor, made a point here that he went in and killed Matty first. Yeah. And so I don't think you need a legal degree or a journalism degree to try to figure out if the government or the prosecutor is saying who the initial victim was. Maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe there's a connection to that. We may never know that answer. Now, at sentencing, Ryan Kohlberger will have the opportunity to give any amount of words that he might want to give. I think it would be smart of him to address the family. And if he's taking ownership of these actions, he should say something to that effect.

9:01So if you were defending Brian Koberger, you would advise him to stand up during sentencing and in some form or fashion address the victim's families directly? Yes. And the reason why I hesitate on that is because I think as an attorney, I would advise my client to do what he thinks is best. in a case like this where what he says has no bearing on the ultimate sentence that he gets, he's going to get four consecutive life sentences. And I believe the burglary are on top of that. It's not that his words are going to sway the judge in one way, shape, or form. He's not really fighting for anything.

9:40And so I would just say to him, like, human to human, there are a lot of people out there who want answers and you might be able to help someone. Maybe this helps them. If this is something you want to do, then I would recommend that you do it, human to human. Human to human. That stands out. Look, when Bill Thompson addressed the court during this change of plea, it was essentially his moment to sort of lay out the evidence that they would have presented at trial had they had a trial. And we all know that the linchpin, of course, was the DNA found on the button snap of the knife sheath underneath Maddie Mogan.

10:16We know that the murder weapon has never been found. But Matt, there are some people who feel like as Bill Thompson was laying out his evidence here, it wasn't all that convincing that largely this case was based on circumstantial evidence. However, Bill Thompson did tick through a few things, and I want to go through some of those with you. He talked about how the prosecution has evidence that would suggest there was at least attempts by the defendant to delete or alter his purchase history on Amazon. And they allege that he bought the murder weapon on Amazon using a gift card. They also allege that he searched Amazon for a replacement knife and sheath after leaving the one behind at the crime scene.

11:04And then in terms of that DNA match, Matt, we have long known that authorities did a trash pull on Brian Koberger's parents' Pennsylvania home and that the DNA match was made from his dad. And Bill Thompson decided to include the nugget here that it was found on a Q-tip coming from the father, that that's how they made the match. Why give those details, Matt? As far as the details go and people thinking it's still not overwhelming, number one, he pled guilty. So questions about his guilt are done. Okay, he's admitted it. But having prosecuted a bunch of these, the cell phone records are very damning.

11:47that alone, when you have somebody moving towards a crime scene and they turn their phone off, it's almost like footprints on a beach. And on this one, you have DNA on top of that. There is new evidence that came forward at this, and that is that Brian Koberger attempted to delete or alter his purchase history, which of course goes back to Amazon and when he bought that K-Bar knife. That's new information, and that is what we would call consciousness of guilt. That's a legal term for somebody essentially that is trying to cover their tracks. And I think that that in itself can be very powerful evidence.

12:26So from my perspective, for the viewers that think this wasn't convincing, this was an overwhelming case from my view. I think the defense did an excellent job with what they had to work with as far as the pretrial motions and things. They have to do that, especially in a capital case. I can't offer any criticism towards what they did. They had a job to do. But at the end of the day, almost all of that was shot down. This evidence was coming in. It was overwhelming. And I think that's one of the main reasons why they sought a plea. Well, and the defense essentially threw everything at the wall, right?

13:03Trying to get this delayed, trying to get the death penalty off the table, trying to file motion after motion after motion. Right. The change of venue, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. And it did come up as well, Brian, that there really wasn't anything found in his car in Brian Koberger's white Hyundai Elantra. And we heard Bill Thompson address that as well. He said that nothing of evidentiary value was found in his apartment in Pullman. And then when they searched his car, his car was seized and he described it as pretty much disassembled internally. It had been cleaned. There was a bucket of cleaner right beside it, sort of taking the time, Brian, to explain why they think they didn't find anything in the car in the aftermath of what was an incredibly grisly murder scene.

13:55So, Brian, what would be the defense take on that? So for the defense, I would say it's neither here nor there because your client's already pled guilty. If anything, what you may be doing is trying to fashion some way of highlighting his humanity, which is a very difficult task when it comes down to defending someone who has pled guilty to a very horrendous crime. Because while the defense has been successful at probably the one thing that they were truly seeking to do, and that is removing the death penalty. The next thing to think about is what is his life going to be like when he is in prison for the rest of his life?

14:38One thing that stood out to me was I think the prosecutor made a very poignant point in the plea agreement that there was no allegations or no impetus in terms of sexual proclivity towards the victims. I think there was like a paragraph or two that said that. And that stuck out to me because if my client is pleading guilty to a horrendous homicide, I want to make sure that his record and his, we call them like his sentencing papers, are as clean as possible because I don't want him to get the treatment that someone would get for sexual assault or rape. They get treated very differently by other inmates as well as guards.

15:20And while murder is, of course, very horrible and is treated a very horrible way, and I don't think Brian Koberger is going to have a very nice time in any prison, it gets even worse if there was a sexual aspect to this that he was attempting to or thinking of doing something sexually horrendous to these victims and then killed them. And so I think that's the only thing that really stood out to me, seeing what language and seeing what was coming up from the prosecutor to see what his life would be like while incarcerated. Yeah, the exact quote there from Bill Thompson was, I will state for the record, there's no evidence there was any sexual component or sexual assault of any of the victims.

15:58I want to make that clear so there's no speculation. Yeah, and I would say that was heavily negotiated and dealt with in the background. I can't confirm that. I have no information about that. But just being like a defense attorney, and I would love to hear Matthew's opinion as well. Like you go to bat, you'd be like, if my client's gonna plead guilty to this, we're gonna make sure it is very clear that the things like this that can be speculated about are on the record and it's no evidence of that. Because if he's gonna go to prison, we're gonna make sure that this is not a component of why he's in there.

16:32Yeah, so there have been questions about what his interest was in these girls in the first place. There was never an allegation of sexual assault, never a report of that. So, Matt, what do you think? I totally agree with Brian on that. I think that that's a huge deal, especially when you're looking at four consecutive life sentences plus the burglary. However, the person I disagree with on that is Thompson. And the wording on it is very interesting. He says there's no evidence of sexual component or assault. No evidence of sexual assault is certainly clear. However, to say there's no sexual component is an incredibly broad thing for that prosecutor to say.

17:18Because to say that it wasn't motivated, component is a super vague word. What is he talking about? Does that include motive? Is there no component of that on the searches on the computers? Is there no paper in his background? To say there's no component at the crime scene, fine. But he didn't clarify what that meant. And so that, I think, is going to invite more speculation than it is going to put to rest. That's really, really interesting. So I want to move on to just the plea itself and kind of just quick answers here. I actually think, Brian, that I reached out to you early on in this as this was unfolding.

17:55There was some people who felt like the timing of this, a month before trial, what happened? Why didn't you do a plea deal earlier? But the sentiment that I got from others was that, honestly, this is pretty standard timing. And that a month out, a plea deal isn't necessarily that unusual. And also noting here that from our sources and from the documents we've read through, it was the defense that reached out to the prosecution looking for a deal, Brian. So prosecutors like convictions. and the highest and best conviction is always the best result. And so early on in the trial, close to indictment, as the case goes along, as you move towards hearings, as you're doing motions, you're doing more and more work, you're going to press upon the defense attorney and the defendant that this is the offer.

18:46This is the only offer you're going to get. But as you get to the 11th hour, and this has happened for every one of my cases that I go into trial, for some reason, a good deal somehow makes its way to the defendant. A deal that was never on the table, a deal that you were told you're never going to see the light of day of. You're never going to see the death penalty taken off the table. And so defense attorneys know this. And we kind of at the 11th hour to say, hey, what's up? You sure you want to do this trial? You sure you want to put this community and this family through all of the trauma?

19:17Maybe we can avoid this if you just give me this little thing that I'm asking for. And that's when you get those good deals. That's why the defense attorney reaches out. It's not because you don't believe in your case. You don't believe in your client because you've lost emotion or whatever. We just know just before the trial, that's where you can get the real good stuff. That's what you can get your best offer possible. And if it's good enough for your client, then you take it and you avoid the trial. If not, then you know you did your job and you found the best possible outcome for your client and the prosecutor's not offering anything better, then you move directly to trial.

19:49I'm curious as to your thoughts here on how bare bones this plea deal really was, or do we not really know the details of it? Because again, some of the families are saying, look, maybe we could have supported a plea deal had we had some questions answered. Had we had a videotaped confession? Had we known why he did this? Where the murder weapon was? So I'm just curious on your take. So I get and I understand and I appreciate that the victim's family members are asking for more information. They want to know where the murder weapon is. They want to know why. Those aren't typical things that you get from a defendant when they plead guilty.

20:38There also is this idea of quid pro quo, right? Something for something. And so the prosecutor would have to think, in order to get a confession, I would have to give this person something. Like they're not just going to volunteer this information. And so the first question becomes, well, why can't the offer be taking off the death penalty? Why can't that be the thing that they trade for giving the motive? I don't know. Is that a possibility? Yes. Does it often happen? No. Oftentimes, the avoidance of a trial is the reason why you avoid the harshest penalty, in this case, the death penalty. And for the prosecutors, they can only give the information of what they have.

21:23They don't have where the knife is. They don't have what the motive is. And so what you're asking then is, prosecutor, can you give Brian Coberter a better deal so that we can get this information? And then the answer or the follow-up question becomes, what are you willing to give this defendant in order to get that information? And again, I do not want to be insensitive. I would imagine that the greatest thing that you want to ensure is that a person who commits this crime never gets out again. And you don't want to give them the possibility of that for information that doesn't necessarily help in the way that you need to or want to be helped.

22:06So that's why I think that doesn't typically happen. I'm curious about a couple of things here, though, as we move forward. Brian Koberger will be sentenced. That will be the end of the state's criminal case. But we know the Gonzales family has been disappointed with the investigation and the prosecution. They are still looking for answers. Matt, do you see any civil suits coming down the pike here? There have been conversations surrounding a potential wrongful death suit. What do you anticipate, Matt? Yeah, there are options. They might be able to sue. They may do that just to try to get documents and discovery in order to answer some of the questions that have not been answered.

22:45And I don't know if any of those would actually satisfy their search for what actually happened because I doubt there's some document out there that tells us what Brian Koberger was actually thinking. But they may do that just in the pursuit. I mean, they seemed pretty angry about this plea. There's no such thing as closure for victims' families in a case like this. Changes their life forever. But I hope that at some point they're able to get some semblance of peace. and having been involved in some civil litigation as a lawyer, there's no peace when you're in a frigging lawsuit like that. I can tell you that.

23:21Yeah. I mean, you're so right. There's nothing that they can do that will ever bring their kids back and make their lives whole again. Brian, I asked you before the change of plea if you thought that Brian Koberger might speak in that moment. And I think you said something along the lines of he could, but he doesn't have to. You thought perhaps you might advise him on a human level to speak at sentencing. What are the chances that you think that happens and that it happens in a meaningful way? If you're going to attach and in a meaningful way, then with that added sentence, I would say there's a 0 % chance.

24:09Because of the meaningful part. In a meaningful way. I don't think that there's anything that can be meaningfully said that will give these families any kind of solace. I don't think he's going to get up there and explain, this is why I did it. This is how I felt. This is why I thought, I don't think you're going to get that. I think the answers in which the family want, need, and deserve are not going to come from the criminal justice system. The criminal justice system is very good at incarcerating bad people. It's very good at stopping potential threats of people who do some of the worst things in our society.

24:49It's not very good at making victims whole. do I think he will talk keeping out that meaningful part at this point I would say 50-50 he has no real motivation to talk this isn't a victim impact statement where he could say anything that would make the judge think you know what I'll shave off five years you know what I'll make it that he gets to go to parole sooner than what the government or the prosecutor wants there's none of that there He could say something amazing that maybe he's better than me, and he can find words that can make people feel whole, even though you're the person who brutally murdered their loved ones.

25:30Maybe he has that ability. I don't know. I've never seen anyone do that yet. But even if he did, that wouldn't do anything for his case. And so that's why I say it's 50-50. I think he could come up there and just say, Your Honor, I did this. I apologize to the family. I'm ready to be sentenced. Mm-hmm. So, Matt, in your experience, the word impact here, do these victim impact statements have just that, right? Do they have an actual impact on the convicted? So, victim impact statements are an incredibly powerful moment for a lot of different reasons. It's the family's opportunity to voice their feelings and what this crime has done to them with the defendant captivated.

26:16Essentially, he has to sit there and listen. So these are very dramatic, and it can be an incredibly cathartic thing for family members. But Brian's right. It isn't going to have any real impact on what the judge does in this case. Oftentimes, it doesn't. It's just good for the family. The big question then, of course, becomes, and it's called a statement and allocution. That's when the defendant addresses the court. And almost every state, when they do it, the defendant goes last. I hate that, to be honest with you, because it gives the defendant the last word. And Brian Koberger, there's nothing he's going to be able to say to make these people feel better.

27:01One of the things about people that commit murders like this is they tend to have a shocking lack of empathy for other people. So I don't think, you know, if Koberger apologizes to the family, I don't anticipate that it's going to do them much good. But this is going to be a high drama day or two in court as these poor families go through the impact that this had upon them. And my heart just breaks for them through this whole process. It's just it's an awful thing. And I don't think there's, like Brian said, we haven't figured out how to make the victims whole. And in a case like this, we never will.