Ceasefire Deal Marks Historic Day

25:55Well, it's different this time because he's doing it without money being appropriated to do so. You can't go through a rift without spending money. And he is now doing that. He's he's first he indicated that he was going to do something that's illegal. And now he's gone and actually done it. And so, you know, we have entered a new territory. It's important to remember that the president, you know, swears an oath to uphold the Constitution. and Article 2, Section 3 of the Constitution says that the president must faithfully execute the laws of this country. That law is written in plain English, and now he's going and violating it.

26:33And we're at a scary point in this country when the president is ignoring laws written in plain English, but that's where we're at. What's your message to the president, but congressional leaders of both parties as we enter, I guess we're now in day 13 of the shutdown? Sure. Well, the message to Congress is to Congress as the institution. It is important that you've got to get along enough to get in a room and hammer out some kind of spending legislation. That's your job. Do your job. It will require some compromise. It will require some bipartisanship. If it wasn't going to require that, we would have a spending bill done already and we wouldn't have a government shut down.

27:17So Congress, do your job and get that done. The president needs to follow the Constitution. You know, he's taken it way, way too far. We need to see Congress stand up and hold him accountable. We need to see the courts do, I would say, a better job of holding the line and not letting the president kind of, you know, take things way, way too far. We're not talking about an area where you're nibbling around the edges. We're talking about a place now where it's a blatant violation of the law in our view. And that's got to stop. We need those two other co-equal branches of government to do their job and hold this president accountable.

27:55Randy Irwin, really appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Thank you so much for having me. Well, up next, the politics of this historic day for peace in the Middle East. Plus, a stunning moment you may have not seen when President Trump called on Israel's president to pardon Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Stay with us.

28:18We're back with our politics lead. President Trump on his way back to the United States after he and several other world leaders signed a Gaza ceasefire deal. This, as all 20 remaining living hostages are freed after enduring more than two years in Hamas captivity. Let's bring in the panel. And sure, Michael, it's actually, I've been thinking about this throughout the course of the last couple of days because what we saw today and what has transpired over the course of the last 72 hours is a remarkable achievement no matter how you view the president. And I am pretty firmly of the mind that the president Trump's maybe the only president who could have pulled this off given all the different dynamics at play.

28:54But we were just talking about the government shutdown here at home. And that contrast of what we're seeing on the world stage versus what we're seeing at home, what do you make of it? Look, it's an interesting duality, right? I mean, I think the president did something that's quite frankly remarkable and prevented the furtherance of a destabilization in that entire region, which certainly would have impacted the United States' interests, including our troops in the surrounding country. So we have to give recognition to the president in that regard. As it contains the government shutdown, I'm not convinced yet, Phil, that the American people are paying attention to this yet.

29:27Maybe when some federal workers are impacted, maybe when this begins to really impact what people rely on the government for, some of those social safety programs, that I think the conversation is going to be very, very different. I imagine that the Senate Democrats, rather, at some point will probably cave and vote with Republicans to reopen the government. I really foresee that. I would have, full disclosure, two weeks ago heading into this, I was kind of where Shermichael is right now. I have been surprised. And the more I talk to Democrats, the more I'm convinced, like, I probably was a little ahead of where I should have been on that.

30:00Yeah. And, you know, you don't, this is the first government shutdown where nobody really cares about the government shutdown. I just, as we were talking about, Al Farrah got back from East Texas. They weren't talking this weekend about, oh, I wonder if we're going to get a peace deal. They were wondering about the price of beer and steak has went up and what's going on with the price of land. They were talking to me about, like, how much it used to cost. It was homecoming, about how much land used to cost, how much more expensive. Lots of things are. I think real people's lives. I think they appreciate the president.

30:25These guys definitely do. My buddies probably blame Democrats for the price of eggs for hell's sake. But what I'm getting at is the shutdown, right? It's real people's lives. But have they felt it? regular Americans? I don't think so. Yeah, not yet. I mean, to be fair, you were at a Texas high school football game. If people were talking about anything related to the government, I would have concerns about the quality of football. That you're all modern back in Texas. Texas should be focused on football. Shabaka, I do want to ask you, this moment during the president's speech to the Knesset, which he seemed to go off script and speak specifically to the Israeli president.

30:59Take a listen. Mr. President, why don't you give him a pardon? this is what been one of the greatest wartime presidents and cigars and champagne who the hell cares about so just for context this is about prime minister benjamin yahoo's legal issues that he's been dealing with now for several years what'd you make of that yeah look i mean the president has had an interesting relationship with netanyahu sometimes it's up sometimes it's down. Sometimes he loves him. Sometimes he doesn't love him. I think it was a flippant remark. But however, I think the president recognizes that in this particular moment, he needed to be able to work with the Netanyahu administration, some of the more conservative advisors and supporters with Netanyahu to get this deal across the board.

31:50Remember, a couple of months ago, there was a lot of questions and debate if Netanyahu was even willing to come to the table to even entertain a legitimate agreement with Hamas because he didn't trust that the leadership of Hamas would do the right thing. President Trump was able to make that happen. So I can understand him saying, look, regardless of whatever the political issues may be for the prime minister, this is monumental enough. We should look beyond the politics and bring some closure to this to move forward. I'm not surprised by it. I think you can do both at the same time. I think you can celebrate everything that's happened in the Middle East today and celebrate these amazing pictures of these folks getting reunited with their families while at the same time holding Netanyahu accountable for the things that he's been accused of.

32:29all at the same time because there has to be accountability. Another comment the president made on his way to Israel aboard Air Force One. He was asked if the ceasefire deal will help him get into heaven, which is, I got to say, I've been in the press pool. It is a unique question to ask a president of the United States. However, his response was also unique. Take a listen. I don't think there's anything going to get me in heaven. Okay. I really don't. I think I'm not maybe heaven bound. I may be in heaven right now as we fly an Air Force One. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make heaven. Look, as somebody else who may have a hard time with this same topic, I would just say that it's really interesting when you hear him say this because it makes him a regular guy.

33:17It definitely does. It really makes me upset because folks are flipping, making, you know, what do you say, lie to yourself. I do that a lot. Other folks, he's just being a regular person going, look, I've made a lot of mistakes. Y 'all have all covered me and pulled out everything I've ever done in my life. So maybe I'm not going to have a straight shot all the way to heaven. It makes him really, really like a regular folks. And as a Democrat, it makes me hate it. I think Chuck is 100 percent correct. I mean, like my grandfather used to say, he would say, I'm a Christian. He said, wow, you've already accomplished it.

33:42It's a lifelong journey. We're all imperfect. The president recognizes that. And to Chuck's point for regular people, they say, hell, I don't know if I'm going to get to heaven, but I'm certainly trying every single day. It's relatable. It's why people like him. Yeah. I mean, when you read it versus when you listen to him say it, which is a very, it's in his voice. The body language of covering this president is don't just read it. Listen to and watch how he's actually saying it. I mean, honestly, there's like a combination of the humor, the quippiness, but also like a self-awareness about like it's a little presumptuous to be like, you know what?

34:10Yes, absolutely. I'm going to go. You've never seen a Democrat speak that freely because our consultants and lawyers would have a field day. They'd be like, oh, it's over. Like, we've got to unbutton the tie a little bit and be really regular and talk to folks like me and my boys were talking to each other this weekend. Democrat, independent, Republican. That's what people want to hear. There's like 80 % of what you and your boys were talking about this weekend that you don't want anywhere near a live television show. Yeah, we can't talk about it on set yet. Which is why Michael was reporting all of it when you're telling the stories.

34:38Guys, I appreciate you. Thanks so much. We will have both of you back next hour. Keep talking. This programming note, how will this shutdown end? CNN will host a town hall this Wednesday with Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Caitlin Collins will moderate. Again, look for that Wednesday night at 9 Eastern right here on CNN. Up next, comedian Maya Rudolph on her new project, Is it meant to imitate real life? Plus, what she makes of the candid feedback from Kamala Harris after portraying the former VP on SNL. Stay with us. Come on, just relax. You haven't had a night off in three months.

35:16Do you want to watch something less stressful like the Menendez Brothers show? Okay, Nicolas, quizfrage. Homeoffice-Bastade or travel costs? What brings us more? Wait, I'll check that out. Oha, Homeoffice wins. It brings us 150 euros more in the year. Yes, but why do you know this? Because VisoSteuer shows the installation live. That's just the tax app for all cases. Yes, and she also answers questions. 24-7 and without a teacher. That's just the app that understands us. Tax done with VisoSteuer. Now try it out. That's how I got news for your ears. The podcast. I am your host, Michael Ian Black.

35:56I have nothing to hide. I've been exonerated, totally exonerated on Epstein. Yeah. The exonerated thing. Like, it's the word he learned. I don't think he even knows what it means. Come on. He knows what exonerated means. He's been on trial enough times. He's been exonerated a number of times. To me, it's the 1980s ran for president and won. Right. Why isn't the music more interesting? YMCA. Gloria. I'm going to say that Gloria Blu is mine. Michael Crawford receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Have I Got News for Your Ears releases new episodes every Wednesday. Don't miss an episode. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

36:38We're back with CNN's Jake Tepper and his conversation with two stars of an Emmy-nominated series returning to TV this week. Oh, God! Our plane crashed! What are we going to do? Whatever it takes. Wait, should we have written SOS? Oh, no, this is way more us. They'll get it. In our pop culture lead today, that is a clip from the newest season of Loot on Apple TV, starring Maya Rudolph and Joel Kim Booster, among many others. The show follows the travails of Molly Wells, the ex-wife of a cheating tech CEO, who takes billions in the divorce and tries to balance love, wealth, self-discovery in hilarious fashion.

37:22And with us now are the stars of Loot, Maya Rudolph and Joel Kim Booster. Thanks for joining us for season three. Maya, as the show enters its third season, what are you most excited about for this season? It looks like you're taking a real plot twist there. This season is fun. It's very funny. we travel a lot we meet a lot of new friends I feel like season three of a comedy is really when you get to have fun we've established everything, we know who the characters are now we get to see them really go to town yeah, it's liftoff baby we're in the sky your character Nicholas has quickly become a fan favorite, how should viewers expect to see Nicholas lift off this season?

38:13You know, I think it's really, we've gotten to know Nicholas over the course of three seasons and we see him, we've seen him sort of be absorbed into Molly's world and really his entire life is basically revolved around this woman. And I think in season three, you get to see him start to take some steps to self-actualize a little bit and figure out what he wants and what his identity is apart from this woman. and you get to see, I think, a little bit more of a window into why he is the way he is. You know, like he's, for all the reasons why he's a fan favorite, he's snarky, you know, he's a little mean, he's a little abrasive, but you get to see all the reasons why he develops that way and why he's protecting himself with those sorts of behaviors.

38:55So it's really exciting and very funny. Well, the show's great, and I hope everybody tunes in for season three. I have to ask you before we go, Maya, You were obviously burst on the scene on Saturday Night Live, and you were featured last season portraying Kamala Harris, the vice president and presidential candidate. I want to play a clip from one of the skits that the former vice president referenced herself in her new book, 107 Days. She writes about how she was shocked watching the vice presidential debate and how unaggressive Tim Walz was toward J.D. Vance during the debate. Here's the SNL skit that you were in.

39:41Why are they friends? Why are they vibing? Hey, Mamala, it's Joe Biden. So in her new book, Harris writes of that sketch, quote, the following weekend, SNL did a sketch in which actors posed as Doug and me sitting on our couch watching the debate. Well, I did not, in fact, spit out wine. It was otherwise uncanny in its portrait of our evening. I'm not sure if you read the book, but it's a very positive. I haven't read it yet. I can't wait to read it. I really can't believe that I even got a chance to witness any of those 107 days up close and personal. And that was really just an unbelievable experience.

40:26And I feel tremendously lucky to have been a part of any of her 107 days. It was incredible. And I love that she saw that sketch and heard me say they're not really vibing. And she was into it. She's got an amazing sense of humor. Which, I mean, these days, if you don't have a sense of humor, boy, I don't know what you're going to do. So I'm really grateful to all the kind things she said because she knows how much love and admiration I have for her. And it's just so cool. Wow. Maya Rudolph and Joel Kim Booster, thanks to both of you. Loot Season 3 premieres Wednesday, October 15th on Apple TV.

41:08Thanks so much. Really nice to have you on the show. Nice to be here. Thank you.

41:16Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. This hour, home at last. After two years and six days of being held in captivity by Hamas, the remaining living hostages cross the border from Gaza into Israel will bring you the stories of families reunited as President Trump hails a dawn of the new Middle East. Plus, as the government shutdown drags on, the Trump administration fired thousands of federal workers only to have to hit the undo button after realizing some of those workers are actually in critical positions. And speaking of personnel changes, the Justice Department has removed yet another senior prosecutor in the office that charged former FBI Director James Comey.

41:57The source saying Trump's hand-picked U.S. attorney there is interested in moving around prosecutors who may oppose her work.

42:08The lead tonight, the 20 living hostages captured by Hamas and hundreds of Palestinian detainees held by Israel now walk free again. The hostages' reunions with loved ones and the cheers throughout the streets of Israel and along the West Bank creating a momentous day. Four deceased hostages also transported back to Israel after Hamas handed over their coffins to the Red Cross. the entire day, part of the first phase of the ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. This is the end of the age of terror and death and the beginning of the age of faith and hope and of God. It's the start of a grand concord and lasting harmony for Israel and all the nations of what will soon be a truly magnificent region.

43:00I believe that so strongly. This is the historic dawn of a new Middle East. President Trump speaking before Israel's parliament for more than an hour today before heading to Egypt, where alongside other world leaders, he signed the deal that the entire region is now hoping will bring an end to the brutal two-year war between Israel and Hamas. There is so much to cover on this momentous day. And we begin with CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward and those incredible scenes of reunion.

43:37Two years of anguish and agony finally giving way to joy. For the mother of 23-year-old hostage Barr Kuperstein, taken at the Nova Music Festival on October 7th, this was the hug she had dreamed of.

43:58Barr's paralyzed father is helped out of his wheelchair so he can finally hold his son amid wails of raw emotion.

44:10For hostage Segev Kalfan, even the sight of his family was all too much.

44:20Scenes of tearful reunions between the final 20 living Israeli hostages and their families punctuated this historic day. You're home, you're home. The mother of 24-year-old Guy Gilbawa Delal cries in disbelief. In Hostages Square, the beating heart of the movement to bring them home, tens of thousands of Israelis gathered from the early hours, singing Habaita, or Coming Home. The crowds cheered as the first images of the hostages emerged before their release, surreal scenes of them calling their loved ones as Hamas militants stood in the background. After reuniting with their immediate families at Re 'im military base, they were flown to hospitals, looking down at the crowds gathered to welcome them home.

45:18You can hear the crowd cheering as you see those hostages traveling via helicopter to Iqbalov Hospital. This is a moment that these people have been waiting for for 737 days. In Gaza, they have known the pain of waiting too. The pause erupted as some 1 ,700 Palestinian detainees emerged from crammed buses outside the Nasr Hospital in Khan Yunus. Held without charge by Israel throughout the war, they waved to the crowds, tearful. Some returned to the worst possible news. This man learned that his wife and daughters were killed in an Israeli airstrike. My wife and my children, my family is gone, he says, clutching a birthday gift for his two-year-old daughter.

46:16For many in Gaza, joy still feels like a distant dream. The scale of loss and destruction leaves little room for it. And as Israel turns the page on a very dark chapter, Gaza is opening anew and uncertainly.

46:37Now, Phil, in addition to those 20 living Israeli hostages, we were also expecting to see the remains of a further 28 deceased Israeli hostages. Now, we did see those four coffins earlier this evening that emerged from Gaza into Israel, so those families can finally have some closure and grieve. But that clock that you may have noticed in Hostages Square in our story that has been taking count of every minute, every hour, every day since those hostages were first taken on October 7th, that clock will continue to tick until all of the bodies of all of the hostages are finally home, Phil. And that could still take quite some time.

47:26Clarissa Ward, you and your team have been doing extraordinary work as always. Live for us in Tel Aviv, thank you very much. Joining me now is Eliyav Benjamin, the deputy chief of mission at the Israeli embassy here in Washington. Thank you very much for joining me. I can only imagine what the last few days, like the last couple of years have been like for you. Just to start with, this moment for Israelis, for Jewish people worldwide, explain to people what today felt like. Well, thank you, Phil. It's the ultimate feeling of mixed feelings, because on the one hand, we're over the moon with joy, with the release of 20 of our live hostages, and four deceased hostages as well.

48:15The visit of President President, President in Israel, President, this is an amazing visit of his, very short, addressing the Knesset. People are celebrating in the streets. But at the same time, we're still waiting for another 24 deceased hostages to come back home and to see that we go through with the next phase of this arrangement. The 24 bodies of the deceased that have not been returned to this point, there was a 72-hour window for phase one to be completed. That was within the 72-hour window. In your view, does that mean that the agreement has been broken on some level? True. There were 72 hours that were given, but let's also remember that 70 hours were also given a week ago.

49:04And the reality on the ground is much more complicated than it is on paper. We are holding them accountable. We're holding Hamas accountable to keep its end of the deal. And we expect them to do so until the very last hostage that returns. And we expect them to do it. And we expect the entire international community to lean hard on Hamas as they leaned hard on them to actually come to the table and to make this deal happen, to actually go through with it. You mentioned President Trump's remarks today in front of the Knesset, very powerful remarks. But they also included a very pointed statement about the war and what it means going forward.

49:43I want you to take a listen to it real quick. Israel, with our help, has won all that they can by force of arms. You've won. I mean, you've won. Now it's time to translate these victories against terrorists on the battlefield into the ultimate prize of peace and prosperity for the entire Middle East. It's about time you were able to enjoy the fruits of your labor. The president has repeatedly made the point, the war is over. in his eyes. Do you believe that's the case? He spoke about, and the prime minister speaks about peace through strength, which is exactly what we have achieved, the strength part of it, making people understand that we will not bend and we will fight for what is right and fight for our survival and fight for a better Middle East.

50:34We are at a much better Middle East today than we were yesterday or than we were a year or two ago. A much better place, not just for Israel, but for the entire region and actually for the world. And we'll make sure that this happens. We still haven't finished the job. We still need to make sure that Hamas goes through with their part of the deal of disarming themselves, not governing Gaza anymore, and not posing a threat not to their people nor to our people. What's your understanding of that process? The next phases here, I think the one most people are trying to figure out right now is a combination of demilitarization, but also governance of Gaza.

51:12Do you believe there's a firm understanding and agreement on what that will look like in the weeks and months ahead? Oh, 100 percent. The idea is that Hamas is no longer in control, not militarily and not governance-wise, but rather other forces that come in and start building the alternative that we've all been working for tirelessly over these past couple of years. Again, for the future of their own people. And this will be done through international work. We're seeing just now as we speak now, or today, the summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, hosted by President Assisi, of course with President Trump and other world leaders, working exactly towards this, to making sure that Hamas is no longer in control.

51:56And this is the stepping stone for the broader Middle East for a better place. It was a remarkable day. It's the first time I think hope has really felt palpable in a very long time. Eliav Benjamin, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Phil. More moving scenes from reunions between these now former hostages and their loved ones. One of them, Avinathan Orr, first saw his parents. Then he saw his girlfriend, Noah Arumani. He was also captured at the Nova Music Festival and then later rescued by Israeli forces last year. Next up, a look at how Gaza is impacted by this ceasefire deal.

52:40We're back with our world lead 250 long-term Palestinian prisoners convicted by Israeli courts, along with more than 1 ,700 Palestinian detainees who've been held without charge throughout the war were released by Israel today as part of the ceasefire agreement. at their homecoming, sparking joy in war-torn Gaza. Joining me now, Ahmed Al-Khatib, the senior fellow for the Atlantic Council. He grew up in Gaza. He's been critical and has been a critic of both Hamas and Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu. I want to start with kind of the scenes that we saw today of the releases, particularly of the detainees.

53:16Many, if not most, tough to put numbers on it, not connected to Hamas, have not seen what's happened to Gaza over the course of the last two years. What's your sense of their reaction to coming home and seeing what Gaza is now? Well, good to be with you. Many have been shocked indeed to see what has become of their homes, of their families, of their communities. Some of the family members in Gaza were actually surprised to see them being released or to even see their names in the lists and the manifests of released prisoners because they simply thought that they were dead, that they were buried under the rubble.

53:59And remember, we have an estimated 5 ,000, 5 to 10 ,000 missing Palestinians in Gaza who are believed to be under the rubble, some of whom have been reported missing for over a year, presumed dead, some of whom have been picked up by the Israeli military. And so there have been jubilation, there have been sadness, there have been shock and surprise among those detainees, as well as their communities, their families and loved ones. My sister-in-law's brother has been missing since April of 2024, and he's been captured by the Israeli military. We had hoped that he would, in fact, be released today.

54:43Unfortunately, he's not part of the 1700s that have been released thus far. And that just goes to show you that who knows, maybe he's not even alive. And that's the tragedy of the situation that thousands of Palestinian families face. President Trump, the meeting today in Egypt with other regional leaders, world leaders at large, about the rebuilding of Gaza. He's said this at one point. Take a listen. numerous countries of great wealth and power and dignity have come forward to me just today and over the last week to say they want to help in the reconstruction of gaza putting up whatever money is necessary we're also agreed that gaza's reconstruction requires that it be demilitarized and that a new honest civilian police force must be allowed to create a safe condition for the people in Gaza.

55:39The financial resources is a piece of this. I think when you talk to White House officials, they're confident that it exists if they can get to that point. It's the latter part of that statement. What is your sense of the process toward demilitarization based on what you've seen over the course of the last couple of days in particular? Well, as much as I'm grateful for the fact that we had phase one, I remain highly skeptical of the fact that we're going to get to a place where Hamas willingly gives up its arms, which it said it won't, where Hamas accepts the entry of an international stabilization force, where they've said they won't, where Hamas accepts the commissioning of an international overseeing a board of peace, which they said they won't.

56:28And so I remain skeptical and questioning of the euphoria with which President Trump regularly speaks. And I want to be euphoric and enthusiastic, but everybody's looking to U.S. leadership. I spoke to a senior Arab official when we were on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly, and I spoke to many of Arab officials, in fact, but one in particular of a Gulf nation who said to me, point blank, listen, this is not a resource issue. This is a leadership issue. We are all looking to U.S. leadership without which we cannot come in and basically be stuck between Hamas on one end and Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on the other, given that the United States is the only party that's capable of essentially pressuring Netanyahu and pressuring Hamas's patrons in Qatar and Turkey.

57:30And so that's what we should be looking for in the coming weeks. It was clearly the ability to kind of move forward with that dynamic, which other administrations, certainly the last administration, weren't capable of kind of pulling together, given various issues and constraints that they were all facing that led to this point. What's your belief in the durability of that moving forward? Well, again, like I think there was something so well defined about the immediacy of the release of hostages. And in exchange for that, Hamas wanted a very specific number of detainees, Palestinian prisoners, I should say, in accordance to a well-established formula that was already tried and tested in November of 2023 and in January of this year.

58:20So there was something very specific and tangible to work towards. And President Trump, through his unconventional methods, through his ability to whip up enthusiasm and Mr. Wyckoff and Jared Kushner, his son-in-law, We're very much so able to muscle up the focus and the attention toward this goal. When it comes to the second goal, which is the phase two, if you will, of the agreement, which is the demilitarization of Gaza, the establishment of a new governance apparatus, that's a lot more nebulous. That's a lot more, that's a lot less well-defined. That's a lot less clear in terms of the milestones and the necessary steps.

59:08And so that's where I am skeptical that the same level of enthusiasm and attention that Trump had for phase one can easily be applied to phase two. I hope that I'm proven wrong. Yeah. Critical weeks, critical questions ahead. Ahmad, Fouad, Al-Khatib, really appreciate your time and perspective. Thanks so much. Thank you. Well, fired, then quickly rehired. Some of the Trump administration's government shutdown layoffs went a bit sideways. We'll explain next.

59:46In our politics lead, more than half of the 1 ,300 CDC staffers fired on Friday night were reinstated on Saturday after the administration says the employees mistakenly received layoff notices. Joining me now is former CDC Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Deborah Howery, who resigned in August in protest over the firing of CDC Director Dr. Susan Menarez. Dr. Howery, just can you take people inside the agency right now in the last 72 hours? What is the feeling about what's been happening here? Yeah, it's really been whiplash for the staff. And I think it's really concerning when on Friday, people that were on the Ebola response on measles in charge of global health, in charge of suicide prevention were laid off from the agency, and then they were brought back.

1:00:30And there's still groups like the ethics office that looks at conflicts of interest that the secretary cares about, the research office over the Institutional Review Board, those things and HR are still all laid off. The agency can't function without many of these critical areas. The process to me seemed very much like they felt like the administration needed to lay off entire offices to try and fit into kind of their legal opinion of how they could actually implement this, which without going too far down a rabbit hole here, what effect does that have to public health in your view? So it's like, you know, if you want to trim something, you use a scalpel.

1:01:08They use the machete. And by doing that, they really, you know, took the agency, they decreased the bandwidth and the boots on the ground of people being able to respond. And I am very concerned that with the cuts that happened and continue through the potential budget cuts, that CDC will not be able to protect the public health in our nation. Do you feel like there is an intentional, deliberate attack on the CDC specifically from this administration? I do. When you look at CDC versus other agencies, CDC has had greater budget cuts and greater staffing cuts. Certainly all of government has been experiencing things.

1:01:48But when you look at health and human services, CDC really has had greater cuts than many other agencies. Why do you think that is? I don't know why it is, but I think it's problematic because CDC protects the health of Americans 24-7. And if they aren't able to be in the local communities and the state health departments and working around the world, we are all at risk. Dr. Deborah Howie, really appreciate your time, perspective, much more to get to on this, I have no doubt, in the weeks and months ahead. Thanks so much. Well, another major leadership change at the Justice Department in that same office that brought charges against some of Trump's political adversaries.

1:02:28That's next. Plus, you just can't get enough of the moving images of hostages reunited with their loved ones. This is Nimrod Cohen, an Israeli soldier kidnapped from a tank close to the Gaza perimeter fence, now back in the arms of his family.

1:02:49Exclusive reporting in our Law and Justice lead, another leadership shakeup in a key Justice Department office, where President Trump's handpicked U.S. attorney, Lindsey Halligan, has already brought charges against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James, two political adversaries of the president. Joining me now, CNN's Caitlin Polantz and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Tom Dupree. Caitlin, first to you, because I've lost track at this point with kind of what Lindsay Halligan has done since she became the U.S. attorney. What's going on here? Phil, she does it all.

1:03:22That's where we are with this U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia. So Lindsay Halligan, three weeks ago, it's been 21 days, comes in as the interim or acting appointee from Donald Trump's White House to take over this prosecutor's office. And the latest here is that she's getting rid of her first assistant, the person who was serving in the interim right before her for three days because Trump got rid of the other person that was the leader of that office. And Lindsey Halligan has moved that person out of the Eastern District of Virginia. Her name was Maggie Cleary, and she was a more experienced trial prosecutor.

1:03:57The other things that Lindsay Halligan has done leading this office is she's taken two cases that had resistance pushback within the office among the experienced prosecutors. She's taken them through the grand jury, secured the indictments of James Comey and Letitia James. And she sat in court herself at James Comey's arraignment. And so what we're seeing here is a deepening split between Lindsey Halligan and how she wants to run the Eastern District of Virginia and the other people, the experienced people, the people who've been there for years. They're either being pushed aside. Some are being fired.

1:04:37Some are resigning. And the latest is the first assistant. To people, Tom, who say, look, it's the president's Justice Department. He clearly believes that he should have a far more robust approach to the Justice Department from the executive office of the president than any president, at least in the last 50, 60 years. What's your response to that? Well, it's absolutely true that the president has the right to have the people he wants serve as the chief prosecutors, as the United States attorneys for these districts. No question about that. At the same time, there has been a long tradition in the Justice Department that when prosecutors consider whether to bring charges, they typically work in a collaborative way.

1:05:09In other words, they'll talk to one another. They'll bounce ideas off the other. They'll say, look, this is my read of the evidence. I think they support charges or I think they don't support charges. And through that deliberative collaborative process, you reach ideally the right result. That's the old model. The new model now is, as we've seen, particularly in the cases of these, you know, politically charged prosecutions, is the president is basically directing the prosecution from on high, and his orders are being carried out by his hand-picked United States attorney. Not a lot of deliberation, not apparently a lot of independent judgment being brought to bear, but that's the way that this president is structuring his relationship with the Justice Department.

1:05:41Can I just ask you real quick, why does the EDVA matter? For people who are like, what's the Eastern District in Virginia, why do I care about that? It's a hugely important district. Obviously, it's right next to Washington, D.C., and historically, the district has prosecuted many of the nation's highest profile national security cases. It handled the Paul Manafort case. It's handled a lot of the Al Qaeda cases coming out of 9-11. So it is a very, very centrally important office in the whole universe of the United States Department of Justice. Another prosecution that pertains to a former Trump official, but also kind of Trump enemy to not to sugarcoat it on some level, John Bolton.

1:06:19What's going on there? It's not a prosecution yet. It's an investigation of John Bolton. He hasn't been charged. This is one that it's unclear if we should be lumping this into an investigation that's been heavily influenced by what Donald Trump wants. What we know about this now and what is new is that there have been prosecutors in the District of Maryland, so not Virginia, not D.C., up in Maryland, who have been working on this for some time. And there was a split with the political leadership at the Justice Department. It wasn't over whether to bring a case against John Bolton. It was about timing.

1:06:54What they've been looking into is whether he mishandled classified or national security information. And there was searches of his house where they pulled out documents, hard drives, computers, phones just two months ago. So it was a question of can they charge a case right now? My understanding from sources I was speaking to this weekend is that the Maryland-based team that was working on this case for some time. They lifted objections to moving forward that they had and that they were at work on Saturday, potentially preparing an indictment. So we're waiting to see if Bolton will be charged in the coming days.

1:07:29Caitlin, helpfully correcting that it's not a prosecution yet. Sorry, getting a little, there's been a number that I pointed to, but also this is different in terms of what I think prosecutors have been looking at, as you guys have been pointing out, in terms of how we view the lens of, is this a politically motivated case? Is this a Trump case? What's your read on it? Well, my read on it is I want to see what the indictment says if it comes. And I also want to know if the career prosecutors ultimately got comfortable with it and signed off on it. If it does, I think that would make this different potentially than the other two prosecutions we've seen, where there was clearly a divergence between the views of the career prosecutors and the views of the political appointees.

1:08:02So let's see what they say. Let's see if this is something where career prosecutors sign off on this, sign their name on the indictment and prosecute the case. But also, how did they do it? There was also a discussion recently in the Justice Department of whether John Bolton should be, quote unquote, perp walked. That is a political choice. You just always can't help them. They're always going to just say the quiet part out loud at some point. Appreciate you guys. I feel like I'm like a string trying to put piece everything together. And you guys actually did it for me. Appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

1:08:29Well, as the government shutdown drags on federal workers, they're trying to figure out how to survive on partial paychecks. The latest on how this will impact members of the U.S. military. That's next.

1:08:42We're barreling toward one of the longest shutdowns in American history unless Democrats drop their partisan demands and pass a clean, no-strings-attached budget to reopen the government and pay our federal workers. That was House Speaker Mike Johnson warning this morning on day 13 of the government shutdown. For the first time in recent history, U.S. military troops are expected to miss their first paycheck, potentially. But on Saturday, President Trump said his administration had, quote, identified funds to get troops paid. Schmeichel Singleton and Chuck Rocher are back with me now. Schmeichel, stepping in to pay for the salaries of troops, to pay the paychecks of troops, not going to hear a lot of complaints on Capitol Hill about that idea politically.

1:09:24Where do you think things stand right now in terms of the levers of pressure that Republicans have? I mean, look, I think Democrats, in my opinion, I understand their positioning on health care. I personally do not agree with it. I think some of the enhancements that were passed during the COVID pandemic were supposed to be temporary. It makes made sense to me at the time why we wanted to make sure that we had the necessary funding to provide care for people during a once in a lifetime pandemic. But the expectation, at least from the Republican side, was that those things would zero themselves out.

1:09:55Well, you know, Phil, you give people something in politics, it's hard as hell to take it back. So here we are with a clean CR. Hell, even the New York Times said for the first time in a long time, this is actually a legitimately clean CR. This is expenses that we've already voted on, what, 13, 12 times in the past. Why try to oppose Republicans wanting to open the government? And then let's negotiate. We have until the end of December. This is a complicated process. Keeping government closed may bring this all the way to November. Your side should want that, Chuck. Well, we'll see what my side will want.

1:10:27What we want right now is we want our side fighting back. And I think Chuck Schumer learned that the first time that he didn't do it. And so you see that coalescing with what you saw with the doge cuts with an election in Virginia in just 20 days. Will this have repercussions a year and a half from now in the midterms? No. We're going to get it back open. Folks are going to get their back paid. But right now there's an election in northern Virginia and there's a lot of government workers who lost their job because of doge that are mad. I think it's going to have real implications. But you know what?

1:10:52There are also a lot of contractors who do not get back pay. And so Chuck Schumer is playing politics right now because Democrats beat the hell out of him because the last time they felt like he didn't stand up because he voted with Republicans to open the government because the expectation from the average American person out there is that the government should function and operate as it should by being open, not closed. Speaking of playing politics, watch this video real quick.

1:11:20It is TSA's top priority to make sure that you have the most pleasant and efficient airport experience as possible while we keep you safe. However, Democrats in Congress refuse to fund the federal government. And because of this, many of our operations are impacted and most of our TSA employees are working without pay. Let me say that the Congress. Just for context, that's being played in airports. Some airports have refused to actually show that. That's a video. Like, while you're sitting in security, that video is kind of hanging out there. For folks watching, you can't use federal dollars to do any kind of politic and take it from the political consultant.

1:11:55We do some work for some of the congressional offices who take their government money, your tax dollars, to say, this is how you can reach us if you want to file a VA claim, if you have an immigration case, because they want the constituents to know it's called the franking. Everybody on Capitol Hill knows the franking budget because it's been known to be used to communicate with voters about what's going on in Congress. But you can't say Democrat or Republican and you cannot say vote for a Democrat or because of a Democrat or Republican. This is highly illegal. You know, like this is a simple PSA.

1:12:22Notify to notify the American people, notify the American people that government isn't functioning because of my friends on the Democratic side. And you look, you even think about immigration, for example. There was a story out of Florida that just broke, I believe, either Thursday or Friday, of two individuals who were in the country illegally who were planning a terrorist attack against a Jewish synagogue, against a Shabbat dinner. And you know who broke that story? This is a name you don't hear often on CNN, Project Veritas, of all places. And so there are real ramifications, I would argue, Phil, about the federal government not being able to function to keep the American people safe.

1:12:59So again, we shouldn't play politics with this, and Democrats are happy to do so. I think that's apples and oranges. I, of course, Franking Stewart, Franking, by the way, if you're a Congressional Quarterly along like me, that's a gold mine for reporters when they come to Capitol Hill. I do want to ask you, former President Obama went on the WTF podcast hosted by Marc Maron. I think he was kind of the bookend of the podcast. And he really ripped into the law firms, universities, businesses that have made deals or conceded to the Trump administration. Take a listen. we're not going to be bullied into saying that we can only you know hire people or promote people based on some criteria that's been cooked up by steve miller and obama also sympathized with those worried about receiving any backlash but then said this we're not at the stage where you have to be like nelson mandela and being a 10 by 12 jail cell for 27 years.

1:13:58Where do you make those comments, Trevor? You know, I see the reemergent of Obama. I see Kamala Harris out there doing this. I think that the party, my party, needs to turn a page. And I think that there's a lot of things he said that made a lot of sense. And I don't think Obama himself, but the people around Obama, have never went away. And during Obama's presidency, this is something that's never talked about. Democrats lost 985 House seats during those eight years because of the way we were running campaigns, getting away from messaging to working folks. We got to get back to talking to folks who live in rural Ohio and in rural Texas about things that they worry about every day.

1:14:32Or we're going to continue to lose. Well, Philip, I'll say quickly, I hope Democrats don't listen to my brilliant friend Chuck Rocha here. That said, these are elements of what Democrats ran on when Obama or when Trump ran against Hillary Clinton, when Trump ran against Biden, when Trump ran against Kamala Harris. Authoritarianism, fascism, those messaging points aren't resonating with the American people, in my opinion, because you have continued to see the president, former president, now elected again, be successful over and over and over again. Despite those claims, Chuck is right. Democrats have to figure out a way to speak to the American people at a base level.

1:15:04They haven't figured that out yet. They come to homecoming with me in East Texas. I can show them some real people. I got to say, a great time Schermichael finishes the segment and goes, man, I'm glad they don't listen to Chuck. Oh, my God. It's a lot. Simple PSA. Get out of here with that. Schermichael Singleton, Chuck. I appreciate you guys both, as always. Well, her career spans half a century, and she's reliving it all in a special way. The legendary vocalist and songwriter Annie Lennox joins the lead next.

1:15:35In our pop culture lead, her music and song titles are iconic, sweet dreams, here comes the rain again, of course walking on broken glass. Now, superstar Annie Lennox has written an iconic book called Retrospective. It's filled with personal reflections and incredible photos from her life as a Grammy award winning singer-songwriter. Jake Tapper got to ask her all about it. Amy Lennox joins us now. Thank you so much for joining us. This is such a cool book. I can't wait to put this literally on my coffee table. And it has such a unique feel to it. When you read and turn the pages, I wouldn't say it's like a scrapbook, but it feels very personal.

1:16:15Tell me what your vision was. Well, you know, Jake, as you say, I've been around for many decades now. There was such a lot of work that went into everything that Dave and I did as Eurythmics and within my own solo career. And I'm 17 now. And I thought, it's the time to collect and collate all the beautiful images from these times. And, you know, we've got a lot of images in the cloud, actually, a holding space. and we kind of pulled them down and selected, I think there are about 200 images in the book. And it was just a labor of love, I have to say, because it gave me a time to reflect. And I titled the book Retrospective, which it truly is.

1:17:06And I think a lot of people will find that they can identify moments in their lives when they were listening to the kind of music that we were making, you know, and have made and keep making, you know. It definitely brought me back. I mean, as somebody who's been following your career since, I don't know about the 70s, but the 80s for sure. You said in an interview that you often read books from back to front. This is one of those books you can do that. I can do it. I mean, but also you can just pop in at any moment. It's not a narrative that you have to stick page to page. Are there any of these images or any of these moments that when you look at them, they conjure an image beyond?

1:17:49Well, tell me, I mean, do any of them make you sad? Do any of them make you melancholy?

1:17:57Well, they certainly reflect and represent moments in time in my own life. And there were many, many moments of being melancholic and sad. but there were also these frozen moments are in a way, how could I say, a celebration of the work and the creativity and the manifestation of a vision as a creative artist. I see this book as a memoranda of life through the life of a performing artist on stage, in video, in photograph. and it's given me a time to reflect on what we were actually doing because we were on a roll for decades. Dave and I were creating nonstop right from the get-go as soon as we met each other.

1:18:53We never stopped really and now it's beautiful because I think I've got the book here. Ta-da! Yeah, I got one too. This is me, Mrs. Me now and this is old me but this is old me holding young me. Well, you look the same, honestly. You look the same. I am so curious about the creative process. I just don't, I can't imagine coming up with, for example, Sweet Dreams or Broken Glass or Here Comes the Rain Again. You wrote that David Stewart, your partner in the duo in the Eurythmics, struck a compelling beat. I became intrigued and Sweet Dreams was born. How does that even happen? Well, how does conversation happen?

1:19:36When you sit with another person, like we are sitting, we're not together, but we're having a conversation. How do we even form the words and the sentences to make any sense between each other? So I would say I've figured out after reading for over the years that creative people are more or less right brained and that we're wired slightly differently to the more logical part of the brain, which is on the other side. Our thoughts, we capture and we are curious about the world. So the world presents itself in many ways and we reinterpret it through poetry, through writing, through making films, through painting, through making music.

1:20:18And in a way, it's an artistic release for creative people to express what's going on in our minds because there's a lot going on in there. Do you know what I think, actually? I think it's a miracle. I think that people like you are touched by God. And I think, like, here comes the rain again. I mean, I could, you know, any number of these songs. But Sweet Dreams, I mean, it's genius. It's not just like me talking right now. Nobody's going to download me talking right now and listen to it 600 times over the next year. I mean, have you ever thought about that? that maybe it's actually touched from some heavenly or some creature, something we can't even understand?

1:21:02I think the whole world is something. I don't know. I'm just using words now. I'm afraid to use the word God because it has so many connotations. But whatever the life giving source is in this mysterious universe on this planet that we exist on for a very, very short time. Yes. I mean, we're all part of it. So perhaps it's tuning in to that positive life force, but it's in a conscious mental capacity. Well, we're so lucky that it touched you and that you shared everything with us. The book is called Retrospective. Annie Lennox is the artist. Come back anytime. We're so honored to have you. Thank you.

1:21:40Thank you so much. It's been a joy. You can follow the show on X at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Aaron Burnett, Outfront starts right now.

1:21:57New cycle making your head spin? The Have I Got News For You crew is here to help with a comic take on the week's headlines. New episodes, Saturdays at 9 on CNN and next day on the CNN app.