Clancy Defense Atty: One Juror “Refuses to Listen to the Law”

23:58Which is kind of, as you lay out, an essential piece of trying to get a coalition back together. Speaking of data centers in Texas, Tucker Carlson was apparently talking about that today and the electoral damage it may do to Republicans. J.D. Vance was also talking about Tucker Carlson today. They have a longtime friendship. I want you guys to listen to what Vance said. Mike Rogers is really, I wouldn't vote for Mike Rogers at gunpoint. Everybody knows that Tucker Carlson and I are friends. And I think it's very obvious that Tucker has said some things that I disagree with. I think El-Sayed is a crazy person.

24:31And I think whatever your views on Mike Rogers specific policy prescriptions, I'd like to have a non-crazy person like Mike Rogers representing Michigan in the United States Senate rather than a crazy person like El-Sayed. I'm not going to play the game where I throw friends under the bus because I have political disagreements with them. Malik, my honest question is, what kind of sway does Tucker have in the party at this point? Zero. He has absolutely none. And to hear J.D. Vance after Tucker Carlson has really gone after Donald Trump, gone after Donald Trump's policies, he hasn't been subtle about it.

25:08to hear him kind of wrap him in his bosom as if he's some type of friend. You know, he's still my friend. OK, yeah, he says bad things about the boss, but he's still my friend. Really? Like, are you kidding me? Tucker isn't a factor. J.D. Vance needs to fully separate himself from Tucker Carlson and that wing of not the Republican Party, but that wing of the right that now seems to be bouncing back in the other direction. He has no influence and J.D. Vance needs to cut ties. Listen, I think J.D. Vance is trying to figure out how he becomes the Republican nominee in 2028. He has been on all sides of almost every issue, including Donald Trump.

25:48We'll see what he does with Tucker Carlson. There is some hypocrisy here, though, because he is basically trying to lash Abdul Saeed to Hassan Piker and saying, you know, basically saying they're the same person, and that's his running mate. But when it comes to Tucker Carlson, who has said some terrible things, not only about Donald Trump, he has said some pretty anti-Semitic things as well. But yet, you know, that's his friend and he's not going to have to answer for anything that Tucker Carlson says. You know, we'll see. It'll be interesting to see J.D. Vance next week at this convention. Right.

26:20In some ways, this is kind of his coming out party as well. He is, I think, going to have to fend off not only a conversation about Tucker Carlson, but also Ted Cruz. Is Ted Cruz going to run? Is Marco Rubio going to run? Is Pete Hegseth going to run? So he's in a very interesting spot. All things he was asked about today. And I will give him credit. He showed some agility in dodging. All right, everybody stick around. I want to talk about this quote. The truth will set you free, but first, it will piss you off. Gloria Steinem, of course, said that and a lot more as an unapologetic feminist. How her style revolutionized politics right up to today.

26:56That's next.

27:04In our national lead, a monumental loss. American author and feminist trailblazer Gloria Steinem has died at the age of 92. She was an icon for the women's rights movement in the 1960s and 1970s, spent most of her life fighting for workplace equality, reproductive rights and sex education. She explained her worldview in an HBO documentary about her life in 2011. Feminism starts out being very simple. It starts out being the instinct of a little child who says, it's not fair, and you are not the boss of me. It's something in us who knows that, right? And it ends up being a worldview that questions hierarchy altogether.

27:49Her provocative writing career sparked her activism. She famously went undercover to expose the degrading conditions inside Hugh Hefner's Playboy empire for her breakout piece. She also went on to co-found the feminist magazine, Ms. Magazine, still in publication today. Among her many accolades, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, presented by President Obama in 2013. Her one piece of advice to young girls is, I love this, do not listen to my advice. Listen to the voice inside you and follow that. So I think the one thing, like today, it's one of those days where there's like a legendary figure who passes and then you read about them and realize you didn't have one-tenth of the knowledge of the scale of the impact they were having, the things they were involved in.

28:35What kind of stands out to you as you think about it? Yeah, I mean, also, she grew up in the Midwest. She was someone who was not trying to be a feminist in any way. I think it was not until later in her 30s that she was someone who then decided to champion equal pay and reproductive rights and all of the things. I mean, I think that also, I mean, as I have grown as a woman, I have also seen that there have been a number of champions. But she is, she started the movement and she is sort of the lead of the movement when it comes to feminism. And I do think that many women and especially younger women have not necessarily seen all that she has done for our country.

29:16And I think they somewhat, a lot of people take it for granted, right? We are still struggling with equal pay and other issues. But there is a reason how this reason why all of this started. And it started because of her. And so I think that as we look back and study history, my hope is that they study her career. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was on CBS this morning to talk about Gloria Steinem. I want you to listen to what she said. She wasn't going to be an astronaut, but by goodness, she made it possible for Sally Ride to be an astronaut. not. She wasn't going to play college sports, but she stood behind the women in Congress who passed Title IX to open up opportunities in sports and academics for girls.

29:59And, you know, she wasn't on the Supreme Court when Roe v. Wade was decided, but her voice and her activism was behind that. And, you know, with all of the setbacks that we've seen over the last decade or so, I want her voice to remain in our heads. I like that framing because it's like a reminder of just the kind of all-consuming role she had. But also, it's something I've heard a lot today from women I've spoken to about this, of like, this is a tough time where it feels like things have kind of regressed a little bit. What does it mean thinking about her and that? Yeah, listen, I mean, I'm sitting here smiling, looking at the old clips of her and listening to people talk about her, listening to her talk about the ways she pushed for the world we live in now, all the world that my daughter, who's six years old, we watch the WNBA all the time.

30:49You know, I got a chance to talk to Gloria Stein about five years ago about Shirley Chisholm. She was incredibly warm and gracious. She wanted people to know this history. She wanted to know, she wanted people to know about the complications around this history. You know, the sort of civil rights movement, the LGBTQ movement and the women's movement. Sometimes there were clashes there in terms of representation and how big the tent was gonna be and who was going to go first and who was going to go second. You think about in the wake of Obama's winning the nomination in 2008, she had some feelings about that, the fact that it wasn't Hillary Rodham Clinton.

31:25And she was incredibly honest about that, those sort of struggles and some of the regrets she had. And she just wanted a big tent. She wanted people to know this history, to be inspired by this history and to keep going. You think about what Hillary Clinton there said about her voice in her head. The voice is the struggle continues. Malik, as somebody involved in the arena, what do you learn about activism and kind of being able to advocate for things from her career? Well, she is the grand dame of second wave feminism. And if you follow that, it talks about reproductive rights, you know, rights for women.

32:02And I think it's important to have these conversations, even from the right, because you have to appreciate people like her, people like Simone de Beauvoir and her second sex. These are things that actually are important to women but it also helps us navigate in a society with each other. So I will criticize her from the Republican right. I would say that she actually led a very, very good life. Appreciate you guys all. A profound loss without any question. Thank you, guys. Well, up ahead, a CNN special report. Rare access inside Israeli-occupied South Lebanon. An exclusive look at the ripples of military action playing out there.

32:38And the breaking news 61 days before the midterm election. President Trump is taking his fight over mail-in ballots to the Supreme Court. What's at stake? Coming up.

32:54In our world lead, even if a ceasefire between the U.S. and Iran seems far off, one with an Iranian proxy, Hezbollah is technically in effect in Lebanon. The U.S. brokered agreement between Israel and Lebanon was signed in June. It says Israel is supposed to hand over small pockets of occupied territory to the Lebanese army. But Israeli forces have reduced Muslim towns to rubble, while a few Christian villages have been spared, but cut off from the rest of the country. CNN's Jeremy Diamond got exclusive access to the hard-to-reach area. From this coastal road to the rubble-strewn countryside, you'd be forgiven for thinking this is Israeli territory.

33:32But it's not. This is a rare firsthand look at occupied Lebanon. We just passed an Israeli military checkpoint. We're in a convoy of vehicles, dozens of families reaching their homes inside the Israeli zone of control, three Christian villages where many people are still living, the only way in or out of this area for these families. Israel invaded this area nearly six months ago after Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed militant group that is based here, fired rockets at Israel for the first time since 2024, retaliating for Israeli strikes on Iran. We're really close to the Israeli border now, and this is all we're seeing.

34:12Piles of rubble, one home after the other, completely destroyed. A ceasefire is technically in effect here, yet Israel carries out near daily strikes. Most of this rubble was caused by bulldozers and controlled demolitions, part of Israel's plan to raise every town and village in this area, with only a few exceptions. A trio of Christian villages have been spared the fate of their Shia Muslim neighbors. The contrast really is quite striking. We're now inside one of those Christian villages, and as you can see, there is life here. But below the surface, life is far from normal. The residents here are surrounded by the ruins of neighboring villages.

34:56So where is Bentejbel? Even two-year-old Joe recognizes the sounds of jets overhead.

35:07Like many in this Christian village, Yorgos blames Hezbollah, which embedded in the surrounding Shia villages, for bringing war to his doorstep. We're living in peace. Nothing happening here. Why we did all of this? And you can see the results. Do you feel like they deserve this? Do you feel like... No, no. Nobody deserves like this. Nobody. We need our government to be here and to take responsibilities. The Lebanese government says it's now trying to do just that, deploying the army to reclaim sovereignty over southern Lebanon, both Israel and Hezbollah, a task it's trying to accomplish without coming into conflict with either one.

35:50We need the world to see that we are working in a very dangerous situation and a very harsh situation. That danger comes into focus as soon as this soldier begins telling the story of the Israeli strike that killed his comrade. When you were first deployed to the south, and that was some kind of Israeli strike close by. This is at least the fourth Israeli artillery strike that we have heard in this area since we've been here. And we've only been here for about 20 minutes. It's continuous in all the area of operation. As I told you, since the 27th of June framework agreement, we had now more than 5 ,000 attacks.

36:31This is the ceasefire from their side. The Lebanese army says 34 of its soldiers have been killed so far this year. Some died in Israeli strikes. Others were killed by unexploded ordnance. As part of the ceasefire agreement with Israel, Lebanon is working to clear the south of weapons held by non-state actors like Hezbollah. This fiber-optic drone is just one example. We are finding munitions deployed by the Israeli enemy forces, and we are finding munitions dropped by armed groups from Lebanon. The scale of the challenge comes into view as we drive through the south, a bastion of Hezbollah support where the group's flags and martyrs posters line the roads before arriving in the town of Zaltar al-Gharbiya.

37:21This is a pilot zone under the U.S.-backed framework agreement between Lebanon and Israel. Soldiers now patrol the town, man checkpoints at its entrances, and monitor military activity from observation posts like this one. This is really quite striking. You have a Lebanese army observation post right here, and just a few hundred meters away on the opposite hilltop, an Israeli military position. The pilot zone means some families have been able to return to their homes, or whatever is left of them.

37:55And peace is impossible to imagine.

38:10For this time, I come to the house of 10 days. The fourth hour I get to the house, but I just want to smell the earth. Because this earth, it is a place that I love. This earth is the place that I love. And I love it. It doesn't leave. It doesn't accept it. Darwish barely flinches at the sound of a nearby airstrike. We are standing here and standing here. It is here, amid displays of defiance, that Lebanon is probing one potential path forward. The final objective is clear. It's the Lebanese state authority inside the pilot zone, strictly. But why is the Lebanese army not going and kicking in doors and confiscating weapons?

38:51Doing things in violence against our own people, it will be also with other sequences. Lebanon is a country with a history of civil war. Is that one of the reasons why, you know, the Lebanese army is not being aggressive against Hezbollah? I'm saying that we will do this slowly. We will do this in a reasonable way. Who will fight the children of his country? But at the same time, we are not going to accept something illegal. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Southern Lebanon. Thanks to Jeremy Diamond and his team for that exclusive report. Well, the breaking news, the fight over mail-in ballots now headed to the U.S.

39:30Supreme Court. And the unease in one battleground state set to start sending out ballots tomorrow.

39:44Welcome to Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. This hour, a dramatic day in court in Lindsey Clancy's murder trial. The jury sent home until tomorrow morning after the defense claimed there is one juror who is refusing to listen to the law and preventing them from a unanimous verdict. Our teams were at the courthouse for every development and join us live in moments. Plus, the first midterm ballots are set to be sent out tomorrow. But tonight, President Trump is making an emergency appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, asking them to allow his new restrictions on mail-in ballots. Those breaking details ahead.

40:17Also, a billionaire who was supposed to testify in the House's Epstein investigation not only refused to show up, but he also sued the committee trying to block them from obtaining his nondisclosure agreement. So what happens next? A member of the committee will be here to explain. And ahead of this holiday weekend, we've got a new installment of business leaders. You're not going to want to miss ahead how President Trump's trade war with Canada could impact your next glass of wine.

40:48We're following breaking news tonight. President Trump asking the U.S. Supreme Court to let him implement sweeping changes to mail-in voting less than two months before the midterm elections. It isn't clear whether the justices will act tonight or if this will affect North Carolina, which, by the way, is set to send out the first midterm ballots tomorrow. Now, as we wait for a possible ruling on that emergency appeal, which could come tonight or not, there are major questions about how the U.S. Postal Service's online portal will work, a key part of these new mail-in ballot rules. Earlier today, a federal judge said it all felt like a, quote, experiment, according to the Associated Press.

41:25A few hours later, the Postal Service responded to the judge saying, quote, We anticipate being in a position to make the portal available to users for voluntary use by sometime next week. Let's get straight to CNN correspondent Gabe Cohen and CNN senior legal analyst L.A. Honig. Gabe, this has moved really fast over the course of the last week or so. The publication of this 90-plus page rule, a whistleblower, several different court cases working in parallel. What is happening right now? Yeah, so really, as you said, stunning developments over even just the past couple days. Obviously, that federal court judge had blocked the Postal Service from mandating these rules, and the administration was sick of waiting and said, we're going to leapfrog after the Supreme Court, and we want them to decide on this because we want these rules in place for the midterms.

42:14You mentioned that the Postal Service earlier today really for the first time acknowledged that they do have this portal built, or at least they will, and operational as of next week. They said for voluntary use, but the administration wants it for mandatory use. It's only voluntary right now because of that injunction from that federal judge. Remember, what these rules say is that state and local election officials not only have to adopt universal envelopes and unique barcodes for all envelopes with mail ballots, millions and millions that will go out across the country, but also they're going to have to upload that envelope information as well as the names and addresses of every mail ballot recipient across the country into this Postal Service portal before the ballots go out.

42:56Otherwise, they're going to get rejected and sent back. And it is clear that election officials all over the country do not feel like they can implement this in a matter of weeks. As you said, North Carolina's ballots are about to go out. Several other states are going to follow in the days ahead. They have been sounding the alarm that there's no way they could reprint all of these ballots so quickly. It would cost a ton of money and they will have to retrain a ton of election officials all over the country to use that portal to make sure there aren't administrative issues, that ballots do not get rejected, perhaps in big batches and kick back.

43:31And then you mentioned that whistleblower account from a Postal Service worker who said that what they have witnessed inside the Postal Service is a sloppy and rushed effort to build this system that it is not ready for primetime. And just a little while ago, I spoke to the American Postal Workers Union that really had strong words for the Postmaster General David Steiner in this administration saying that their staff have not been trained on this. It is not ready to go. They want the Postmaster General to step in and say, we're not going to do this. But as of now, the Postal Service hasn't done that.

44:03And we're now going to be waiting on the Supreme Court to decide. You know, Ellie, as Gabe lays all that out, my issue throughout the last couple of weeks in covering this and watching this play out is like the mechanics of this just simply don't add up in my mind on the legal side of things. Explain the significance of the fight that's playing out there and where you think it's going to go. Well, Phil, the core argument made by the challengers here led by a group of 23 democratic states is essentially that this executive order infringes on our constitutional rights as states to run our own election.

44:35Constitution gives that power to the states, not to the president. Now, this case first went to the Supreme Court about 10 days ago, early last week. And the Supreme Court in that ruling said, we're not going to address whether the executive order is constitutional or unconstitutional at this point, because it's all premature, because the harms that the states are saying they're going to suffer haven't come to pass yet. And they're not imminent. They're not close at hand. All they had at that point was an executive order. There was a long ways to go. Now, Now, since then, as you and Gabe noted, first of all, there's been publication of a final rule, which moves things closer.

45:08And now today we learned that there's actually a portal in place at the Postal Service. So the challenges are now saying, okay, now we're close enough. Now we've moved far enough along. It looks like based on today's proceeding that the district court judge agrees with that. The district court judge has ruled against the Trump administration at every turn. And that's why the Trump administration is now running to the Supreme Court on this expedited basis. Ellie, the Solicitor General has a lot of experience moving on an expedited basis to the Supreme Court over the course of the last 18 months, with a lot of success, I would say, in some of those efforts.

45:42When are we expecting the Supreme Court to rule here? This is going to move lightning fast. Actually, the government is asking the Supreme Court to do something procedurally unusual and skip the middle layer, Court of Appeals, and take the case directly. I think this is a custom-made case where the court has to do that. We're, what, 60 days away from midterms now. And when the court gets this case, when they decide that they're going to be looking at three things. One, is it still premature or are we close enough that we can decide now? Has the case ripened, as lawyers would phrase it? Two, does the executive order actually infringe on the state's rights to hold their own elections?

46:19And then third, a sort of wild card here, there's this thing in the law called the Purcell principle, which says we cannot and should not change the rules around election procedures and balloting if we're too close to an election. Now, we've never been given a specific number of days, but man, 60 days is really, really close for all the reasons Gabe just laid out, all the technicalities, all the procedural problems that'll happen here. Ellie Honig, always appreciate you, my friend. Gabe Cohen, you and the team have been doing extraordinary work on this. I know it continues, maybe even tonight.

46:48We will see. Thank you guys both very much. Well, this mail-in ballot fight is particularly urgent in North Carolina. A purple state, absolutely crucial to the balance of power in the U.S. Senate. CNN's Manu Raju is in the Tar Heel state. Manu? Yeah, Phil, this is one of the most closely contested Senate races in the country. Democrats absolutely need to flip North Carolina if they have any chance of taking the Senate majority. This is an open seat. And the former governor, Roy Cooper, who won two terms here in North Carolina, is running. He's running against the Republican Michael Watley. And there is a lot of uncertainty about what will happen with mail-in voting, particularly as the president tries to clamp down on mail-in voting and the push by the U.S.

47:29Postal Service to try to restrict some mail-in ballots. That's a question that I put directly to Cooper himself about how he views the impact this will have as North Carolina prepares to be the first nation in the country to vote. The mail-in ballots come out on Friday, absentee ballots. This is the first day in the nation that's really going to start voting. And we've seen the president try to clamp down on the USPS. Are you concerned about the impact that this may have in mail-in? Well, I think it's a violation of the law. And yes, I'm concerned about the impact because look at who it affects.

48:03It affects rural people. It affects veterans. It affects people who are disabled. People who rely on the absentee mail system in order to be able to let their voices heard through the vote. And if they're going to get the post office picking and choosing which of these ballots go through and which don't, that's crazy. While there's a view in Washington that Roy Cooper has a formidable lead in this race, there's a much different reality here on the ground in which people believe on both sides that this is a very tight race. In fact, one poll that recently came out showed it within the margin of error.

48:43And Donald Trump has won this state three times. And the last time a Democrat won a Senate seat here was in 2008, which is why a close race and potentially one in which mail-in voting could make a difference, or if people can't get their mailed ballots to the ballot box in time, maybe that's enough to sway an election one way or the other, which is why Roy Cooper in particular, he told me his biggest concern right now is Democrats taking this race for granted by looking at the polls right now and seeing him ahead. He said it's a much different sense on the ground here where this race is much tighter than it may seem.

49:17Phil. Manuraju in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Thank you, my friend. The Lindsey Clancy jury is set to return tomorrow morning after a very eventful day of deliberations. The defense trying to get one juror removed for allegedly refusing to, quote, listen to the law. So what does that all mean for the possibility of unanimous verdict? We'll go live outside the courthouse next.

49:43Breaking news in our Law and Justice League. The judge in the Lindsay Clancy trial is expected to question a lone juror tomorrow. That's according to court records and Clancy's defense attorney, who asked the judge to remove one member of the jury today, claiming the juror is not following the law and blocking the jury from reaching a verdict. Now, this all comes after jurors again today could not unanimously decide whether Clancy is criminally responsible for killing her three children in 2023. The judge this afternoon dramatically questioning each juror at the bench before sending them back to deliberate, then later sending them home with orders to resume deliberations tomorrow.

50:22Let's get right to CNN legal correspondent Gene Casares outside the courthouse in Massachusetts. Gene, Clancy's defense attorney had more to say about this situation after court ended today. What are you learning? Well, what he said, and remember, we're not hearing this from the judge. We don't even know what the actual note said because we just heard Kevin Reddington's argument in court. But what Mr. Reddington said outside of court is that yesterday, that tomorrow, there will actually be an inquiry first thing in the morning with this juror that the defense says refuses to follow the law. And he believes it will be an open court.

51:02Now, question is, is this juror really going to come in by himself and everybody will see this one juror be able to identify him? Normally, something like this would be done at sidebar, but we're going to have to see what happens because the fireworks will continue tomorrow. Trust me. Gene, can I ask, you're always the colleague and reporter that I go to to learn about any type of legal situation that's going on, any court case that you're always following. Have you ever seen anything like what played out so dramatically this afternoon? Absolutely not, ever. You know, when I've covered many cases where there are potential issues with a juror, questions for a juror, it's always done in the judge's chamber.

51:44It's not done in open court where you see everything because the jurors and what they may have to say is just it's it's something that is you protect. You protect it carefully. And especially when you're in deliberations, it's a very sacred time. The judge cannot question so much that they invade the jury deliberations of what they're actually saying in that room. It's just a sacred time because a jury's verdict in their deliberations, it goes untouched. You never want to know. It's something that will remain with them as they go on. So this is extraordinary. It truly is. But of course, the judge wants to get to the heart of the issue, I am sure.

52:27And that's why he had every juror come in one by one. And they swore and answered a question by the judge. We don't actually know what that was. But the prosecutor, in her argument, because she agrees with what the judge is doing in all of this, seemed to imply the judge was asking them if they could follow the law in this case. Yeah, as the defendant was just a couple feet away, I guess, Gina, I would ask, if this reaches a point, obviously deliberations continue, if this reaches a point where the judge declares a mistrial, what happens then? Well, if this is a mistrial declared, then this is over.

53:04This trial is over. And the prosecution was most definitely at this point, even if they have to figure out if they're going to retry this case or not, they would want the defendant to stay in custody because even though she is in a mental hospital, she is in custody because this is a triple homicide case. And they would ask that she remain in custody. They would ask this continue to be a no-bail situation. And they may even give a hint on what they're going to do when they stand up that our intent at this point is to retry this case. We don't know, but the prosecution does have that option. Gene Cazares, great reporting as always, today of all days especially.

53:43Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Well, up next, what we're learning about an ICE agent facing federal charges accused of lying about what happened in the moments before he allegedly shot someone in the leg. Stick with us.

54:01In our law and justice lead, an ICE agent is facing federal charges tied to a January shooting in Minnesota. Authorities say 52-year-old Christian Castro shot a Venezuelan man, Julio Cesar Sosa-Celes, in the leg, then allegedly lied to federal investigators about what happened, according to multiple people familiar with the matter. CNN's Whitney Wilde is following this story. Whitney, what are we learning right now? Well, Phil, Christian Castro is the ICE agent here. And according to the Hennepin County Attorney's Office, who has already filed state charges against him for second degree assault, as well as making a false statement, he gave an account of what happened that night that is completely contradicted by video and victim statement.

54:40So here's what he had claimed happened. He claimed that he was out in Minneapolis during the height of Operation Metro Surge. He ran a license plate. The plate came back to a registered owner of a vehicle who is not a U.S. citizen. A car chase ensued, a foot chase ensued. And you see it right here on your screen. After a brief scuffle with the driver of that vehicle and Julio Sosa-Solis, those two men ran inside the home, and that's when Christian Castro opened fire. He had claimed that during this incident he was beaten for several minutes and that he only opened fire when he was in fear for his life.

55:18The Hennepin County Attorney's Office says that is completely untrue. The Department of Homeland Security had initially defended Castro, but as they investigated, it became clear that his story was unraveling. The two men here were initially charged by federal officials. A month later, they dismissed that case, saying that he and another agent had not been truthful about what happened. They were placed on administrative leave. Meanwhile, several months later, Minnesota prosecutors filed their case. It is not clear that he is anywhere that is easily attainable. He does not appear to be in custody in this federal case, which we now know he is being charged with making false statements.

56:02So it is not clear he's in custody in the federal case. He is not in custody in Minnesota. And so the search for him now begins. Phil, this is a pivotal moment. This is the first time the Department of Justice is charging an ICE agent for actions that occurred while they were on duty at the height of these immigration surges that happened all across the country. So, again, this is a watershed moment, Phil, and there's much more to come on this. Meanwhile, those charges have not yet been unsealed. And again, it is not clear that he's in custody in either the federal or state case, Phil. And Whitney, at the same time, the Justice Department is also investigating one of the lead prosecutors in this case.

56:40Why? Well, this is an unexpected twist. This began with a ProPublica report. ProPublica reported that earlier this week, the lead prosecutor in this case had told the victim's attorneys that the Justice Department was blocking a more serious civil rights charge. That lead prosecutor has since been fired. That lead prosecutor also now under investigation for obstruction. The – Phil, that is a quite unexpected moment here for a U.S. attorney's office that has seen quite a bit of chaos since the beginning of the year. There – it's really something that we were not – we were not prepared to see. We were very surprised by.

57:25And again, sources are telling CNN that the discussions about whether to bring a civil rights charge remain ongoing. So, again, there is much more to see about this case. They could add that charge later. But that, again, is a twist we certainly did not expect to see here. Yeah, a lot of moving parts. Thank you, as always, for tracking all of them somehow. Whitney Wilde, appreciate it. Well, we're still counting down to the midterms. But today, Vice President J.D. Vance was asked about his 2028 presidential ambitions. That's next.

58:00In our politics lead, Vice President J.D. Vance holding the first White House briefing since the departure of former press secretary Caroline Leavitt at one point joking with reporters during the briefing about whether he planned to make his presence in the briefing room a permanent one. Are we talking to you as the vice president or the press secretary? So I'm not Marco. I've not yet accepted any additional jobs. Before I came out here, I was talking with the president in the Oval Office, and he said, be careful. I want you to do well, but if you do too well, I might make you the press secretary.

58:31So I've got to screw up a little bit because I'm busy enough as it is. The panel joins me now. Mark Short, one of the things that I'm always interested in in these moments is like he's always going to be asked about 2028. He's always going to be asked if he's the heir apparent. He was asked. He, I think, showed some agility in trying to dodge it. Take a listen. You should be focused not on a job a few years from now, you should be focused on the midterms. And that's the approach that I've taken. I think people sometimes don't believe me because they assume you're the vice president. You must think about this all the time.

59:04What I'm focused on, man, is trying to get as many Republicans as elected as possible. You were the chief of staff to a vice president who absolutely had ambitions, but also a lot of people that wanted him in the future to run for the presidency. Is it true that the vice president, you're not thinking about that, you're not planning about that? Or is there something that it's only smart to be planning about things, about what happens next? Well, the circumstance is a little bit different. Because keep in mind that in 2020, Trump was on top of the ticket. In 28, he won't be. And so it is a different scenario for the current vice president.

59:38I think that's exactly the right answer to give. And there's a lot that has to play out between now and then. And so you already are familiar with a lot of his advisors having left in the conversations. They're beginning to build a campaign staff or operation for him. But he's right to say our focus needs to be on the midterms. Yeah, it's absolutely the right answer. Pence would say that and actually mean it. I'm not sure. Because he's just kind of like genuine like that. Vance was also asked about Ted Cruz, who has made several high-profile trips to Iowa this year, made other moves. Vance's team hasn't totally taken – they've at least taken note of these moves.

1:00:13The Wall Street Journal saying Cruz is quietly asking people if they want to work on his 2028 campaign. And today, it's called Cruz, an authentic and likable guy, which I'm sure, which is like very funny because he just like offhand added that in and everybody, people laughed. Is this a rivalry? Is this something like if you're a Democrat right now, are you looking at the potential 28 field and saying like, yeah, Cruz? Well, I think that there are two things that are happening. Once J.D. Vance was at that podium to audition to be the president of the United States with Donald Trump. I don't think this is like a broader audition.

1:00:47I think that in order, it's like a multi-step process. And the number one step is to make sure that you lock in Donald Trump, right? And then from there, you have to lock in the rest of the Republican Party, etc. I think what he's doing here with Ted Cruz is, first of all, I think Ted Cruz understands how unpopular Donald Trump's agenda is. And I do think that at the end of the day, J.D. Vance is going to need to figure out whether or not he's ever going to distance himself from Donald Trump. It is really hard to be a vice president of the United States and run and win for the presidency. We have seen that happen multiple times where that has not been successful.

1:01:25And I think Ted Cruz understands that. Ted Cruz knows that he also can appeal to the MAGA base and to other parts of the Republican Party. And so I think he's also considering that. For him, it just sounds like, hey, I'm going to keep my options open just in case this guy, you know, completely just steps in it or whatever it is and does not end up becoming the nominee. Mark, it's too early to be having these conversations. I will be candid with the audience. However, it's fun. And also, more importantly, people are talking about this. People are planning things. People are not showing up in Iowa and New Hampshire because they love Iowa and New Hampshire.

1:02:00I personally do, but I'm not trying to run for president. You're also not normal. Do not smirch Iowa or New Hampshire. I think my question, actually, Mark, cruise aside any number of people, if somebody came to you right now as somebody who's considering running in 28, what would you tell them about what they should be doing? Well, look, let's go back to So She's Answer. The reality is that I think that the track record would suggest that the president really isn't invested in his vice president's succession plan. And so the reality is that he's kind of want to see sort of a apprentice style play out in front and not really go all in behind his current vice president.

1:02:36And so you're going to see other candidates say, let me test the waters, particularly if the midterms turn out as poorly as people are forecasting right now. It's not going to give a lot of boost to J.D. Vance's candidacy. And so I think you're going to see a pretty crowded field. I think the advice that we'd be giving is that, you know, right now I fear that Republicans, there's a lot of vitriol in our politics, undoubtedly. But if you look at the policies that we've been pursuing economically, frankly, they're frankly right out of the playbook the Democrats have had for many years. The trade policy is exactly what Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have advocated for.

1:03:11State-owned enterprises are exactly what the far left has advocated for. Price controls are exactly what the far left has advocated for. I didn't be encouraging a candidate to say, you know what? Let's get back to free market economics. Let's begin to show a contrast to the Socialists and the Democrat Party as opposed to trying to embrace the same policies they've been pursuing. I have four mentioned former Vice President Mike Pence's group is one of the rare, lonely Republican operations that actually makes these points economically, which I always find fascinating, given having covered the party on economics for so long.

1:03:42So she's speaking to vice presidents who have run and not successfully. Kamala Harris, the former vice president, was asked about a Politico report that some Democrats running in battleground states are shunning her. This was her response. We need to win. OK, bottom line, we need to win. I have run locally, I've run for statewide office and obviously nationally, and these candidates know what they need to do to win, and I would expect nothing less. I look forward to being on the trail and helping folks where I can be helpful. Solid response. Mature response. Right response? Very different response to what Donald Trump would say, which Donald Trump would say, I have to be on the trail.

1:04:24People love me everywhere, even though he is not beloved. I will say for Democrats more broadly, you we are not our base is important, but we don't have the problems that the Republican Party has with our base. We are looking to make sure that we have a big tent and we're going after moderate voters. When I am looking at polling right now, I would say the only national Democrat that really stands out is Barack Obama. He is polling in purple states at about 50 percent. And I think that is interesting, given the fact that the president of the United States and other national Democrats aren't even polling at 50 percent.

1:05:00So I would say that if anyone is looking in these tough districts for a surrogate, it would likely be someone like Barack Obama and someone who can raise the money. She will be utilized in places where voters really think that she can do a good job. And so I think that that is very mature of her and the right way to approach it, especially as she's also considering a run in 2028. I think you just teed up a Trump versus Obama third term. That's no one. No, absolutely not. Thank you, guys, as always. I appreciate you. A billionaire who ran in Jeffrey Epstein's circle is suing the House Oversight Committee, trying to block the panel from getting his non-disclosure agreements.

1:05:37How the committee is responding? That's ahead next.

1:05:45In our Law and Justice lead, billionaire investor Leon Black is suing the House Oversight Committee, which is investigating Jeffrey Epstein. Black, who has ties to Epstein, is refusing to testify and is trying to block the committee from getting his nondisclosure agreements. Black is also individually suing the committee chairman, Republican James Comer. Comer accuses Black of hiding behind litigation. I would hold him in contempt right now of all the powerful billionaires and political people we brought in for interviews and depositions. This is the first time anyone's filed suit. Joining me now is House Oversight Committee member James Walkinshaw of Virginia, a Democratic congressman.

1:06:24Congressman, I know Chairman Comer wants to talk to the House Council about kind of next steps here, how to move forward. Is it your sense that the committee will move forward on contempt? I think if Leon Black doesn't come in, the committee will move forward on contempt and Congress will support it. Look, complying with a congressional subpoena is not optional. The lawsuit, I think, is laughable. We'll double and triple check that with our lawyers. But at the end of the day, Leon Black is going to have to come in and answer our questions. In his voluntary interview in June, Black told the committee that he never abused women or had sexual relations with minors.

1:06:56He also said he did not know the extent of Epstein's crime. But the The interview ended abruptly when Chairman Comer issued two subpoenas after Black refused to answer a series of questions. What questions was he refusing to answer? He was refusing to answer questions about NDA's non-disclosure agreements that he had entered into with women who accused him made allegations, credible allegations of abuse. He was hiding behind those NDA's. Those non-disclosure agreements do not apply to the United States Congress. We can ask questions about them and demand answers about them and we are. Can I step back a minute?

1:07:28Because one of the things that I always try and remind myself covering this is like, this is the victims. This is people trying to get information, people trying to get justice, people trying to get the recourse that they deserve. Are you frustrated about blacks' ability to do this, about witnesses not being forthcoming, about witnesses not talking at all at this point? Do you think there will be an outcome that is sufficient for what occurred? It's enormously frustrating. I think throughout this process and throughout the Epstein saga, we've seen a callous disregard for the courageous survivors.

1:07:59Leon Black typifies it. I'll add another. Chairman Comer mentioned powerful people who need to come before us. Todd Blanche is one of those. Todd Blanche was responsible for the management and the release, the legal release of the Epstein files. He released files he shouldn't have, revealing private information about survivors. He continues to refuse to release files that the law requires. He needs to come in and talk to our committee as well. How are you thinking about, how is the committee, the Democratic side of the committee, planning through what options you will have if in the majority come January of next year to maybe take different pathways than Chairman Comer to try and get more information?

1:08:38Well, there are pathways that we will continue. So the Leon Black pathways of private individuals who are engaged in this activity that Chairman Comer and the Republicans by and large have pursued. But they've had a double standard for Trump administration officials like Todd Blamp. So we're going to be very aggressive in getting answers from the Trump administration and former administrations about the cover-up of the files and the whole situation. Look, my goal, I think already we have enough information that if we had a Department of Justice willing to reopen investigations, they could open those investigations, perhaps pursue prosecutions.

1:09:12I'm hopeful a future Department of Justice will do that. One more question. You're still waiting to hear from Alan Dershowitz, Epstein's former attorney who helped negotiate Epstein's 2008 sweetheart plea deal. He's long denied any wrongdoing related to Epstein or Epstein's victims. Why hasn't Dershowitz shown up for a voluntary interview? Is a subpoena on the table right now? It looks to me like he's playing games. He has said he wants to talk about it. He has said he would come in and he backs out at the last minute. I think we might end up having to subpoena Mr. Dershowitz as well. He was not only Epstein's attorney when that sweetheart deal was made with Alex Acosta.

1:09:47He was also Epstein's friend for many years. Have you gotten in any sense the Justice Department is doing anything but putting this behind them? No, the Justice Department wants this to go away. They don't want us to talk about it right now. They don't want the survivors to be out there talking about it. They want it to go away because I think it embarrasses Donald Trump. I don't care about Donald Trump. I care about the survivors and getting them transparency and justice. Congressman, I always appreciate your time. Thank you very much, sir. And now I want to bring in Epstein survivor and anti-trafficking advocate Liz Stein and Lauren Hearst, the national director of World Without Exploitation.

1:10:20Liz, it's always my first question. How are you doing? Thanks. I appreciate you asking that. We're doing well. You know, this is a fight that we've been in for over a year and we're in it for the duration. And so I think that, you know, we are all doing well and ready to see what comes next. Liz, you know, I just asked the congressman the same thing. Like the frustration of somebody like Leon Black refusing to testify, then suing outright. You've seen some, not the lawsuits, but some iteration of refusal to testify, refusal to answer questions from a number of high profile witnesses. I think you guys have been through a lot and it has been a hell of a process.

1:11:01What you've gotten thus far is still stunning to me in terms of your ability to do so. Are you frustrated right now? I think everyone is frustrated, not only the Epstein survivors, but I think citizens across this country are frustrated. We are now looking at two separate things. We're looking at the crimes committed by Epstein and his co-conspirators, and now we're looking at the crimes of the cover-up. If these men have nothing to hide, then why are they hiding? And I think that we're watching this play out in front of our eyes. And I think that, you know, people across the country just cannot stand for it anymore.

1:11:42You know, Lauren, to that point, like the ability of the survivors and their supporters to push this into the forefront of public consciousness was remarkable as it was dynamic. Do you feel like that still exists right now, that the kind of inertia that was moving this forward because of that is still durable over time. So, Phil, one year ago today, the survivors came together for the very first time. Many of them had never spoken about their abuse publicly, and many of them had never spoken publicly at all. And over the last year, their unity has been remarkable. Their fight has been unstoppable.

1:12:27And I am fully confident that we are in a much better position today. But this is just the very beginning. These survivors are strong, they're resilient, and they are going to push truth, transparency, and justice. We'll get there. It may take some time, but we will get there. You know, Liz, Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer said today he's asked U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche numerous times to come in and answer the committee's question. Take a listen. He indicated to me that he would after he got confirmed, and he's been confirmed. And I, again, sent the note out, I would love to get the attorney general in.

1:13:07But I remind everyone, he has come in and answered questions. What other Epstein documents remain and why exactly have they not been turned over? That's the number one question. Liz, what's your reaction when you hear that? Well, I think that we all want answers from Todd Blanche. But I think that we also need to remember that justice doesn't come in just one action, right? Justice is a commitment, and we're committed to seeing this through. And I think that Todd Blanche has a lot of questions that need to be answered, and we're looking forward to seeing him answer them. Lauren, you mentioned it's been one year since World Without Exploitation brought Epstein survivors together on Capitol Hill for the first time, demanding the answers, demanding accountability.

1:13:58How do you think about year two? How do you continue to build? Like what you were saying about the survivors and their like, I've, again, never seen a more remarkable political force in my time in Washington. But how are you thinking through kind of strategically, not to simplify it, but the next 12 months? So I would say where we were a year ago, we were in a moment of outrage. We were able to turn outrage into activism. And now we're all set to turn activism into accountability. What we've seen over the last year with the American public is a total intolerance of powerful people being able to prey on vulnerable people.

1:14:41And so we need to make sure that we join forces as a country. We've seen remarkable support behind these survivors. We hope that people will join forces with us at worldwithoutexploitation.org and support these survivors. And we're ready to make sure that we're putting pressure on Congress to get to the truth, on DOJ to begin to investigate these leads and follow the leads. The days of these powerful people preying on vulnerable people, they're over. And so we need to really make sure that we get there and we support these survivors. Liz Stein, Lauren Hirsch, always appreciate your time, your perspective.

1:15:24Thank you so much. Thanks. Well, up next, it's the latest installment in our series, Business Leaders. And tonight, we're taking a look at the impact President Trump's trade war with Canada is having on your wine supply. Stick with us.

1:15:43It's time for our Business Leaders series, where we talk to small business owners from coast to coast about the impact of President Trump's tariffs. Crosby Roman is a luxury winery in the Napa Valley. Owner and winemaker Sean McBride says it's one of many in the area stuck in the middle of the Trump administration's trade war with Canada. Sean joins me now. Sean, really appreciate your time. Just to start with, explain why Canada is such a crucial market for you and other Napa wineries. Sure. Well, Phil, thank you for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be here. it's important for viewers to understand that Canada is the largest export market for American wine.

1:16:25They account for roughly$400 million in sales annually for American wineries. Even for a small American winery like ours, Crosby Roman, we only produce about 1 ,500 cases of wine per year, But of our production, we will sell 5 % to 10 % of our wine into Canada, specifically to the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, which is the state monopoly in Ontario for the purchase and sale of wine. So it's a significant amount of wine, and it's a very important relationship. The other thing to consider is the fact that of all of the wine that Canada imports, they purchase more American wine by dollar value than any other wine that they bring into the country.

1:17:14So not only are they our biggest customer, but they choose American wine, or at least they have historically. How are you working to make up the loss of that market? And I remind people who think that this blow up just happened last week. This has been a continuous thing for the better part of, gosh, a year plus at this point. What do the losses look like? What have you done to try and make it up? So it's a very good question. The truth is we have sold. We've opened up new markets. We've opened up sales into Europe. We've opened up sales into the Caribbean. We continue to sell wine to Japan. but there's only so many markets that we can take our wines to and it's impossible to replace our single best customer historically.

1:18:06As I said, we've had a very long-standing relationship with Canada. We have great customers there and for now going on about 18 months, the sale of American wine has been largely prohibited in all of Canada. It's a discouraging situation to be in. So the first thing that needs to happen, and this is the message that we'd like to communicate to our trade representatives and policymakers in Washington, is we need to get back to the table and start to have the conversation about where do we go from here? We would like to get our biggest market back. And that can't happen unless trade representatives are at the table negotiating a deal.

1:18:50That was actually what I wanted to ask you at the time we had left. Like we cover this on a macro basis. You're watching truth social posts. You're trying to figure out the negotiations, who's up, who's down, who's got leverage, who doesn't. What's it like watching this from your perspective, like the personal perspective where like naming something Lake America has got to seems so absurd given what you're focused on. How do you think about this? Well, it's a very fair question. What I would say is we're not policymakers. We're winemakers. We trust and depend on our trade representatives to exhibit the same skills and talents that we do.

1:19:31I'm a winemaker. I face very difficult, complex problems on a daily basis. I have to put on a different hat every single day of the week. We have floods, we have fires, we have the occasional earthquake. I need to find new and novel solutions to approach difficult situations. I trust and depend on our trade representatives to have the same wherewithal. I think in this situation, which is a very complex situation, they need to go back to first principles and start to come up with a solution to this problem. That's a very important message. Sean McBride, owner and winemaker of Crosby, Roman. Thank you, my friend.

1:20:11I appreciate it. Thank you. You can join me for my video series, CNN Breaks It Down. We tackle some of the most pressing questions in business and politics. Find new episodes on CNN.com slash watch. And you, of course, can follow the show on X and Instagram at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can watch the show on the CNN app. Aaron Burnett Out Front starts now.

1:20:36In 2024, a man was killed by the FBI. And to this day, the authorities have refused to say why. He was a father, an ex-husband, and a Russian-born American citizen. He just seemed like a lonely guy, and he needed a friend. And he kind of talked about death, didn't he? He talked about, you just never know when it's your time. I'm CNN investigative reporter Isabel Chapman, host of the new limited series Civilian or Spy They noticed that he was communicating with people that were of concern to the FBI Oh my god, Jesus Head over to the CNN Presents feed and listen to our three-part series Civilian or Spy available wherever you get your podcasts