Don Lemon Pleads Not Guilty To Charges From Church Protest

17:50Don Lemon:But a lot of the times their comments from either viewers or followers is not advantageous to the success of these leads coming in. So the published hotlines and tip lines are still the most strongest avenue to get the quality of leads needed for this investigation.

18:06Jake Tapper:And we know people have been, have certainly been responding to that request for any of those leads or information just by the sheer volume of the tips that we've been told have coming in. Jeff, really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

18:16Don Lemon:My pleasure.

18:17Jake Tapper:Well, just moments ago in Minnesota, Don Lemon spoke to reporters after his appearance today in federal court. How the former CNN anchor said He plans to approach his case going forward. That's next.

18:34Jake Tapper:In our Law and Justice lead, independent journalist and former CNN anchor Don Lemon pleading not guilty this afternoon to federal charges filed after he live streamed a demonstration inside a church in St. Paul, Minnesota last month. The protesters said one of the church pastors also works for ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Lemon says he was there to cover the demonstration, but he was charged with conspiracy and intentionally interfering with the worshippers' right to practice their religion. CNN's Whitney Wilde is at that courthouse in St. Paul, also with us CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Honig.

19:03Jake Tapper:So, Whitney, I want to start with you. What happened both inside and outside of the courtroom today?

19:10Don Lemon:This was a pretty standard arraignment. It was also his initial appearance. It was the first time he is being seen in a Minnesota courtroom. That would be the home district for this case moving forward. The judge asked him if he wanted to enter any kind of plea. As you mentioned, Don entered a not guilty plea. And then there was a bit of back and forth between his attorney, Abby Lowell, and DOJ about where Don's phone is. Lowell said that he was tracked to L.A. As we know, Don Lemon was arrested January 29th at his hotel as he was covering the Grammys by around two dozen federal agents. He said his Lowell said that Don Lemon's phone was seized and they haven't gotten it back yet.

19:49Don Lemon:So he was asking if, you know, if they're not going to search it, could they get it back? If they are going to search it, can they get it back to him pretty quickly? And DOJ said that they were in the process of executing a search warrant. It was not finished yet. And they didn't have a timeline for when that phone might be returned to Don. Lowell also made several references in the hearing about what he plans moving forward. Multiple filings. One that came in today is a request for the release of grand jury proceedings. He also indicated that he plans to file a motion to declare this case unconstitutional.

20:21Don Lemon:Outside the court, there was, you know, a couple of hundred protesters who were there to support Mr. Lemon and his co-defendants, eight other people who went inside that church that day. And they chanted, they, you know, voiced very loudly their support for Mr. Lemon and all of the other protesters. Let's listen to what Don said as he left the court. DON DON WENT TO THE COURT, I WANTED TO SAY THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT ME. THIS IS ABOUT ALL JOURNALISTS. PEOPLE ARE FINALLY REALIZING WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS ALL ABOUT. THE PROCESS IS THE PUNISHMENT WITH THEM. AND LIKE ALL OF YOU HERE IN MINNESOTA, THE GREAT PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA, I WILL NOT BE INTIMIDATED.

21:02Don Lemon:I WILL NOT BACK DOWN. I WILL FIGHT THESE BASELESS CHARGES. AND I WILL NOT BE SILENCED. Erica, we are keeping close watch on if those grand jury proceedings get entered into the record, if we will have a chance to see them. That is one of the main things we will watch as we go forward. And then also watching this motion. It sounds like it was a motion to dismiss based on the idea that this case was unconstitutional, Erica.

21:27Jake Tapper:Okay. Whitney, really appreciate it. Ellie, walk us through what you see here. Based on what we know and what we have seen, does the prosecution actually have a case?

21:36Don Lemon:I don't think so at all, Erica. I think this case is doomed to fail on one or both of two bases. First of all, as Whitney said, we learned in court today that Don and his team are going to challenge this on First Amendment grounds, meaning he was functioning as a journalist to the events, not a participant in the events. And it is not a crime to cover a crime. I have read this indictment line by line. One can take issue perhaps with Don's journalistic approach here, but I don't see a point where he crosses that line from being a journalist. He's covering it here. You see he's interviewing somebody.

22:07Don Lemon:He's broadcasting over into being a participant. So that's issue number one. And then I think he's going to argue eventually that this is a vindictive prosecution. It's no secret how the president feels about Donald Trump. In fact, about Don Lemon. In fact, when Don Lemon was arrested, the White House posted a victorious social media post where they made a pun on Don's name and put up an image of chains. I think that's going to come back to haunt them because he's going to say, how much more clear evidence could you have of a vindictive prosecution than that?

22:36Jake Tapper:Yeah, I also wanted to ask you, Ellie, about we just heard from Whitney that Don, one of the things he was asking for in court today is he wanted to know when he was going to get his phone back because they seized his phone when he was arrested in Los Angeles. How common is it that someone would be told, we don't have a timeline, we're still processing things, we're going to hold on to your phone for a little bit longer?

22:55Don Lemon:This comes up all the time because regularly agents will get permission from a judge and In this case, I believe they do have a search warrant to search the phone. But the thing is, ordinarily, as a courtesy, you try to get the person their cell phone back as soon as humanly possible. In fact, there is a technology where you can clone a person's phone. I've seen the FBI do this. So essentially, they make a carbon copy of everything in it, return the phone to the user, and then you can do forensics on the carbon copy that you have. So ordinarily, you would try to get someone's phone back within a day or two.

23:25Don Lemon:And I wonder why that's not happening here.

23:27Jake Tapper:Yeah, certainly more than a day at this point. Ellie, Whitney, thank you both. Two prominent names in the Epstein files out of a job just days after their connections to the convicted pedophile were revealed. We'll have that story next.

23:45Don Lemon:Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also, expensive. Sell their pint-sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees. Because somewhere, a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth spurt budget secured. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

24:17Jake Tapper:In our Law and Justice lead, former Obama White House counsel Kathy Rumler is resigning from her position at Goldman Sachs amid scrutiny of her ties to Jeffrey Epstein. CNN's K-File reviewed hundreds of email exchanges between Rumler and Epstein from 2015 to 2019, long after Epstein served prison time on child sex trafficking charges. Among their discussions, Epstein's legal problems and how to rebuild his reputation. He went stride to arrange for Rumler to visit Epstein Island, and she also thanked him for several lavish gifts. Rumler insisted her relationship with Epstein was professional. Her Goldman Sachs resignation is effective at the end of June.

24:51Jake Tapper:Overseas, a powerful tycoon who runs a major port in Dubai has now been replaced after DOJ released sexually explicit emails between him and Epstein. The communication between Sultan Ahmed bin Suleyman Suleyman and Epstein spanned at least a decade. The two discussed misogynistic descriptions of women and girls, business proposals, and in one message, Epstein referenced an alleged torture video, which has drawn scrutiny by congressional lawmakers. CNN tried to reach Ben Soliam several times this week, but so far we have not received comment. Meantime, Democratic lawmakers are calling for changes on how DOJ tracks their search history of the unredacted Epstein files.

25:31Jake Tapper:That revelation, of course, captured Wednesday during U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi's testimony on Capitol Hill, which shows Bondi holding a document listing Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal's search history when going through those unredacted Epstein files. The Congresswoman from Washington State joins us now. It's good to have you with us. So House Speaker Mike Johnson is calling this surveillance inappropriate, said there's bipartisan agreement that a new process is needed here. I know you spoke with him directly about this. What do you expect to see going forward? Did he promise you anything?

26:01Don Lemon:Well, I don't want to say exactly what we talked about, but I can tell you that his public statement was after he spoke to me where he said this is definitely inappropriate. Members of Congress should be able to peruse these documents without having their search history detailed. And so I talked to him not only about a brand new process where we ensure that the Department of Justice is not tracking our search histories, but I also raised the fact that she not only surveilled us, but she brought that document in to use it against me. Again, you know, maybe she had other ones as well. That's the one we have the picture of.

26:39Don Lemon:And so we did also today, I, along with Jamie Raskin, Robert Garcia, sent a letter to Pam Bondi with our demand that she establish a new process and that she give us answers to exactly what she surveilled. How many members? Why did she do that? Why did she bring that information into the hearing room? Because it is absolutely unacceptable and against the separation of powers, as we pointed out initially and also in the letter. And we'll see. We've asked her as well.

27:10Jake Tapper:Are you confident you're going to get answers to those questions?

27:14Don Lemon:I'm not confident, but I do think that this is one where we have bipartisan support. My conversations with the speaker have made that clear. And I have told him that this is a serious issue. I do think he understands that. And I think he's got members in his own party who don't like this as well.

27:32Jake Tapper:All right. We'll be watching for those developments. I do also want to ask you about a development today. ICE director Todd Lyons said that two ICE officers are now on leave as the agency and DOJ investigate whether they lied about the shooting of a Venezuelan man in Minneapolis. This announcement coming after a federal judge had ordered all charges be dropped against the man who was shot along with another Venezuelan man. Do you look at this as progress when it comes to accountability?

27:57Don Lemon:Well, it's difficult because it never should have been the case that they lied. I mean, I remember that case very clearly. I remember commenting on it at the time. It just, you know, it followed Renee Good's murder and all the lies that were told about her. And then similarly about Alex Freddie. So I don't think this is just about one or two individuals. This is about the culture at the department starting from the top. Kristi Noem needs to go and we need to make sure that we get the kinds of reforms that we are demanding. Yes, I suppose you could say it's good that this happened, but why is it happening now after the judge, you know, after essentially this has gone to court and the information that is provided?

28:41Don Lemon:And all of these cases is just clearly oppositional to what department leaders are saying, not just those ICE agents, but people like Kristi Noem, Carolyn Levitt, even Donald Trump.

28:52Jake Tapper:In terms of some of those demands, of course, we can't ignore the fact that funding for DHS is set to expire at midnight. It doesn't seem that there is going to be a deal before then, although we could all be surprised. This shutdown, though, would not just impact, of course, ICE and Customs and Border Patrol. It could also hit the TSA, FEMA, the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency, the Coast Guard, the Secret Service. How long are Democrats willing to hold out here or continue this shutdown? And are you aware of any negotiations at this point that could be close to a deal?

29:23Don Lemon:I think the question is how long are Republicans going to refuse to even implement fundamental constitutional rights like the right to have an actual judicial warrant before you bash in someone's door or pull somebody out of a car or detain even U.S. citizens? That is what is happening. It is so serious. And that's why we're in the situation we're in. The demands that we've put forward are not unreasonable at all. And I think the Republicans could end all of this right now by agreeing to put them into law and then all of this funding will go through. I should also point out that when it comes to FEMA funding, for example, none of those FEMA funds are flowing.

30:05Don Lemon:You know, Kristi Noem has stopped essentially a lot of those FEMA funds from going out. So we have problems even within there. But I would say that this is all about Republicans and whether they want any accountability on a Department of Homeland Security that Republicans, independents and Democrats have said has gone too far.

30:25Jake Tapper:Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you. Thank you, Erica. Just ahead, hear the response from Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez when asked about her political plans for 2028.

30:45Don Lemon:Rinse knows that greatness takes time, but so does laundry. So Rinse will take your laundry and hand-deliver it to your door, expertly cleaned. And you can take the time pursuing your passions. Time once spent sorting and waiting, folding and queuing, now spent challenging and innovating and pushing your way to greatness. So pick up the Irish flute or those calligraphy pens or that daunting Beef Wellington recipe card and leave the laundry to us. Rinse. It's time to be great.

31:41Jake Tapper:in the form of an executive order. My panel is here. So I do also want to point out, I believe it's 36 states which either request or require some form of ID when you go to vote. There is actually overwhelming support among Americans when it comes to voter ID. But Ashley, when I look at this, the president executive order, is he going to try to get around Congress here? How would this even work? Well, I'm not sure how it would work,

32:04Don Lemon:but I also think whatever executive order is going to live in the courts for a long time. Listen, I think that a lot of this is just him getting attention on the issue, especially around the SAVE Act that was passed this week, which does require voter IDs for every, yes, federal elections. However, I have been saying this from the beginning. There's absolutely no way we're going to change the Constitution, and this is going to be ratified that this ever goes to the states. And so I just think this is like him talking like he's going to run for a third term. Like, I just think it's never happening.

32:35Jake Tapper:So it's just, I should point out, we do have this recent Pew Research poll that found, and we're talking specifically about showing a government-issued ID, right? This is not about proving citizenship to register to vote, which is a separate part of the SAVE Act and a separate issue. But 84 % of Americans in this Pew Research poll favor it, just 16 % oppose it. And this is pretty high along all party lines. Sure. So that he actually has some support for. Of course. That doesn't surprise me.

33:01Don Lemon:But we've got to remember a couple of things, Erica. It is up to the states. So the states should be able to pass whatever laws they believe their voters will support. Let's also remember that for the states and places that don't require voter ID, like here in D.C., you don't have to show an ID when you go to vote. But you do have to show an ID and proof of residency when you register to vote. So that's already there. They already know who you are and that you are who you are. And then there are other precautions that they have for all of these states that don't require a voter ID when you actually go to vote.

33:41Don Lemon:So, again, this is Donald Trump underscoring, trying to gin up attention for a problem that does not exist. And why? Because he's concerned about the midterm elections. He knows Republicans are in trouble. He knows they are facing a shellacking, and he is already laying the groundwork for whatever contentions he's going to want to make in the courts, and so that his supporters will again rise up and say, this was fraud, these were stolen.

34:11Jake Tapper:And so Americans just need to be prepared for that. I know we need to get to 2026 first, right? We have to get to the midterms, but I'm going to jump over them. I'm going to talk a little 2028 with you ladies, if that's okay. Because this is quite the showing in Munich of 2028 potential Democratic contenders. California Governor Gavin Newsom is there. New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Also expected, Senator Ruben Gallego, Senator Mark Kelly, who was on earlier with Casey, Chris Murphy, Michigan Governor Christian Whitmer. It is fascinating to see all of them in Munich right now.

34:42Don Lemon:Well, first of all, I think that Munich is becoming and will take over Davos for the place to be. I think it's a very serious conference. It's something that I would like to do much more than Davos. I think Davos has turned into too much of a circus. So serious foreign policy experts are at this conference right now. Remember what happened last year with the vice president when he went viral? Because, I mean, on purpose he did because of his comments. If you're a candidate no matter what, especially on the Democrat side right now, and you don't agree with the president's foreign policy, You want to make up with a lot of these countries that, you know, the president's fighting with.

35:18Don Lemon:That's where you go. And that's your platform. So look what Newsom did in Davos, though. Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's about Democrats shoring up their foreign policy credentials. But look, this is not going to matter in 2028. 2028 is so far from yesterday. Right. But it's fun for us to talk about. I do think it matters, though, going back to the 26 elections, because it is an opportunity for all of these Democrats who are leaders in their own right to talk about the Democratic message, about how Trump has been so horrible for this country, not just domestically, but internationally.

35:54Jake Tapper:And I think it's great for them to be able to underscore that. So way to lead me to my next question when it comes to messaging, because I thought these were interesting comments from Senator John Fetterman talking to Dasha Burns of Politico. He was asked specifically about what he sees as his party's biggest liability ahead of the midterms.

36:12Don Lemon:Have you seen the last polling? You know, our brand, it continues to drop for me. Like that's I just want to be a Democrat that it's like, hey, I have these values. And and that's why I vote this way. I don't treat voters like children.

36:30Jake Tapper:Look, we know messaging has always been an issue for Democrats. We can I think we can all agree on that. But what struck me, too, is there's also this Wall Street Journal polling that found Americans actually trust, trust, excuse me, congressional Republicans over Democrats on two big issues, the economy and immigration. Messaging is going to be key here. You know what's interesting about that, Erica? What are the polls showing now?

36:52Don Lemon:Maybe they show that. But what are the voters saying? Democrats have overwhelmingly won 90 percent of the elections that have happened since Donald Trump was elected. We have won state elections in ruby red places, flipped Senate states, or flipped Senate races, flipped House races. The Republicans have not flipped one seat since Trump has been elected.

37:17Jake Tapper:There is concern, though. I was talking to a Democratic strategist, I will say, last weekend, who said to me, we still haven't figured out what our messaging is on affordability because the voters that they have been speaking to said, nobody gets us. And we don't trust anybody. So maybe we just won't vote.

37:32Don Lemon:And Republicans, we need to do a better job on that as well, because there are things that are happening, like gas prices, etc., that are better. And you see some of the announcements that came out this week on emissions and car prices hopefully going down from that and taking some tariffs off of aluminum and steel. But I just want to talk about Fetterman for a second. I'm a Pennsylvania girl. What he says is refreshing for both sides of the aisle. I mean, he's kind of like he was the biggest one during the shutdown when both sides were fighting. and like what are we doing as a country, as elected officials in this country shutting down our government?

38:03Don Lemon:I actually think that he's the most reasonable politician right now.

38:07Jake Tapper:We will watch and see if that message lands. Ashley Davis, Maria Cardona, thank you both. Good to see you. Ahead here, new video in the Epstein Files that shows a house manager for the convicted pedophile committing a crime, what he was trying to sell to an undercover FBI worker. That is next.

38:28Don Lemon:Tax Act is here anytime you want to easily file your taxes. Tax Act is here for the early birds who like to knock them out as soon as the season opens. And for the procrastinators who like to wait until the very last minute. Tax Act is also here for the middlers who file right in the middle of tax season. No one ever talks about the middlers, but Tax Act sees you and Tax Act respects you. Tax Act. Let's get them over with.

38:58Jake Tapper:We are back now with the law and justice lead and yet another stunning find in the newly released Epstein files. It turns out the dead pedophile's house manager tried to sell his contact book but got caught in an FBI sting. The Justice Department included video of that operation in its latest release but initially failed to obscure the face of the undercover FBI employee. CNN has updated its version of this report to make sure that that person's identity is concealed. Here's CNN's Karis Kanell with more.

39:39Don Lemon:This is a video of an FBI sting operation with Jeffrey Epstein's former house manager and an undercover FBI employee from 2009. The Palm Beach house manager Alfredo Rodriguez believes he is selling Epstein's address book to someone representing a lawyer of Epstein's victims. You will see a lot of important people here. He claims that the book contains contacts of powerful people as well as Epstein's victims. So those are mostly underage girls, those numbers. They were very young. A source familiar with the case confirmed the video shows the sting operation,

40:14Jake Tapper:which court documents show happened two years after the FBI demanded that Rodriguez turn over any Epstein documents. Instead, court documents say he kept the address book and tried to sell it for$50 ,000. How are you?

40:29Don Lemon:In the occasionally redacted 45-minute video of the meeting, Rodriguez implicates Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's close associate, who is now serving a 20-year sentence for sex trafficking of minors.

40:52Don Lemon:And I knew that because I went with my wife. Rodriguez also claims that Maxwell kept a computer database of girls, something he said he saw briefly once. I have pictures. Naked girls from Sweden, from Romania, from Czechoslovakia, from Brazil. All young girls? Very young. Very young. When you say very young, how are you? 16, 17. The teenagers, they have braces.

41:19Jake Tapper:Rodriguez provided no evidence to support the existence of the database. The video, released as part of the recent trove of Epstein documents, abruptly ends after the agent hands Rodriguez a bag of cash and says he will call the lawyer.

41:34Don Lemon:Rodriguez was arrested for failing to turn over the book as evidence. He claimed the book was his property and that he should be compensated for it, saying it was his insurance policy and that he feared Epstein would make him disappear or harm him. He eventually pleaded guilty to obstruction charges.

41:52Jake Tapper:At sentencing, prosecutors said that if Rodriguez had turned over the book in 2007, when authorities first requested it, it would have significantly advanced the ball toward bringing Epstein to trial, rather than allowing him to secure a plea deal. Rodriguez was sentenced to 18 months in prison and died in 2014. Welcome to The Lead. I'm Erica Hill in for Jake Tapper. This hour, the new details in the search for Nancy Guthrie has been near two weeks since the 84-year-old disappeared. CNN sat down with the Pima County Sheriff this afternoon, where he revealed investigators do have DNA, but they don't know who it belongs to.

42:31Jake Tapper:What else, the sheriff told CNN ahead in moments. Also, new data out today shows inflation is slowing down. Some prices, though, still rising. So why is that? And when can you expect to see some relief? Our economic team is breaking down those numbers. Plus, an Olympic stunner, and I do want to give you a warning. If you don't want to know, just cover your ears for a minute. This is a big one. American figure skater Ilya Malinan, the quad god, favored to win the gold, making a number of unusual mistakes today, missing the podium entirely. CNN's Christine Brennan was inside the ring for today's competition.

43:05Jake Tapper:She'll join us live from Milan. on.

43:10Jake Tapper:The lead tonight, CNN one-on-one with the Pima County Sheriff and learning new details about the search for Nancy Guthrie. Sheriff Chris Nannos telling CNN's Ed Lavendara they do have DNA, but they don't know right now who it belongs to. The sheriff also revealing today engineers at Google, which owns Nest, are working to recover footage from the other cameras at Guthrie's home. Those engineers, of course, were key in recovering the doorbell footage that was released earlier this week. And this is coming out as they're also conflicting reports about the handling of evidence from that home. Ed Lavendera pressing the sheriff on reports that his office was blocking the FBI from accessing key evidence in the case.

43:50Don Lemon:The story that, well, the FBI wasn't plugged in right away. They were plugged in right away that morning. We are going to work this case as a team with our partners. There is no egos. Nobody's the lead. It is financing.

44:07Jake Tapper:CNN's Nick Watt is near the Guthrie home in Pima County, Arizona. Nick, what more do we know tonight?

44:14Don Lemon:Well, listen, the doorbell camera video of the suspect on the porch here, that has been the biggest evidence so far, sparking 5 ,000 calls just within a few hours after it was released. But the DNA that you just mentioned, that could be the breakthrough. Now, the sheriff described that potential issue with the FBI like this. He said, listen, we have a lab in Florida and we had already given that lab the DNA of everybody that we knew had been in that house. So Nancy Guthrie herself, the housekeeper, the pool guy, anybody that they knew was in there. They'd got their DNA, given it to the lab. So that's why they wanted to keep on using that lab.

44:54Don Lemon:The sheriff then told Ed about some new DNA evidence that they have. Take a listen. We have DNA. So trust me, if we knew who it was, we'd be on it. But we do have some DNA, and we continue to work with those, with the lab, on that DNA analysis. Is that DNA that you have you believe might be the suspects? It just doesn't match anyone in a lab? What we have is we have some DNA, and we don't know whose it is. So we'll keep looking. Well, that's significant. It is, yeah. And that was from the house? I'm not telling you where it was. We have DNA. So DNA, they don't know who it is. So that would suggest that that's not DNA of a person who is already on any criminal databases.

45:41Don Lemon:That is very interesting. The other thing they're trying to do right now that we heard from the sheriff, the same people that managed to get that porch video from the vaults, They are working on trying to get video from other cameras that were around Nancy Guthrie's home. Now, we also heard that they found gloves maybe 10 miles away from the home. They are continuing to scour. And also, the sheriff said she will be found. Erica?

46:12Jake Tapper:Nick, really appreciate it. Thank you. Also with us this hour, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller and former FBI assistant director, Frank Figlusi. It's good to have both of you here. Frank, I want to start with you if I could. So Sheriff Nano's telling Ed earlier, they do have, as we just heard him say, they have that DNA, they don't know who it belongs to, but as Nick laid out as well, they have the DNA of a number of other people, so they know it is not them. They're working with the lab now to figure it out. Walk us through that process. What could this DNA lead to, and what else would they have to compare it against to set them down the right path of identifying someone?

46:51Don Lemon:So at this point, we would assume that they've already taken family DNA. So they're going to be able to compare it against that and rule it out as different than the others. And it likes likely they've already done that. There's a vast DNA database at the FBI that they can quickly run against this sample and see if it's known to them. It's sounding like they've done that. I'm just reading into this and that that's not been fruitful yet. And so that that gets us into the whole relatively new area of genetic genealogy and DNA and whether they'll be reaching out to various private sector databases to see if someone might be related to the DNA sample that they have.

47:36Jake Tapper:JOHN, Ed also pressed the sheriff about, you know, what is the working relationship, essentially, between local law enforcement and the FBI. The sheriff denying claims that he's in any way blocking the FBI from accessing key evidence. I know you have a lot of sources that you're speaking with. What are you hearing?

47:52Don Lemon:I'm hearing, and you know, the sheriff says everything is fine between them. I'm hearing from my friends and former colleagues in the FBI that everything is fine between them. I have the feeling, Erica, that this is one of those things that some of this in some measure is on us, which is the story has quieted down and, you know, people are listening to side conversations and rumors. And I'll tell you, I have been in the LAPD in cases with the FBI, in the NYPD with cases in the FBI, and in the FBI watching cases with other agencies. And I know that from time to time there will be some grumbling among either agents or local deputies or detectives about who's handling what or who's taking charge of what aspect.

48:41Don Lemon:but the overall working relationship in this case has so far, as far as I can tell, been seamless. And usually, in most cases, it is. I think that this is much ado about very little.

48:56Jake Tapper:Okay. You know, I also, John, stay with me for a second because I want to throw this one to you. You know, our colleague Brian Seltzer wrote about this newsletter this morning, these true crime influencers that are certainly a part of what I think a lot of people are seeing on social media. A number of them made their way to Tucson. One YouTuber actually ordered pizza to the crime scene last week. The sheriff calling out, in his words, the sometimes ugly world of social media and how it can be a nuisance. But it is, John, it's a delicate balance, right, between the reality that the public can help.

49:28Jake Tapper:I mean, we think about 2021. It was a tip from a YouTuber that led investigators to the area where Gabby Petito's body was found. How do you balance all of that? How does this work in the influencer age?

49:39Don Lemon:I'm laughing because we're still learning. So one of the challenges investigators face here is they're literally working in a giant fishbowl. They're surrounded by media at the sheriff's office, at the crime scene, at other family homes. That's a challenge. On the other hand, the flip side of that is it gives them immediate and easy access to worldwide global coverage at the drop of a hat when they have a new lead or something they want to crowdsource. So that's a balance they have to live with. The particular media influencers and online sleuth detectives can be helpful because they can research, find, analyze things, and every now and then come up with something, as you pointed out, that investigators might not have looked for in that particular time or place.

50:28Don Lemon:But, as we also remember, and Frank will remember this as well, from the Boston Marathon bombing, they can start to point on public platforms to suspects who, because of circumstantial things that they found and connections they've made, have nothing to do with the crime and put the case in jeopardy and put those people in jeopardy as a recent case.

50:49Jake Tapper:Yeah, it's an important reminder. There were also, of course, at the very beginning, at the start of the investigation, these possible ransom notes sent to news stations. It's not clear publicly that those notes or frankly any demands were actually from kidnappers. Frank, you know, as John was pointing out, things have quieted a little bit. What is your understanding of where that part of the investigation stands?

51:10Don Lemon:So first, let's make something clear. Whether or not these demands are coming from people responsible for what happened to Nancy or not, they are committing a crime. These are extortionate demands. And as the gentleman from California has learned recently, you will be charged federally and you may end up in prison. So I think that's important for people to understand. Next, every day that goes by that we don't get a proof of life makes it less likely than not that these demands simply are a ruse or an afterthought by someone connected saying, I need to make whatever happened to Nancy look like an actual kidnapping when perhaps it's not.

51:48Don Lemon:It's distracting. They all have to be tracked down and followed. People are going to go to prison for these, whether they're responsible for what happened to Nancy or not. But every day that passes without proof of life makes it less likely these are legitimate.

52:02Jake Tapper:Yeah, which just adds to, frankly, the heart-wrenching nature of this moment and this investigation. Before I let you go, John, we were sort of struck. Our colleagues saw pool workers at the Guthrie home today. Not clear what they were doing. There was law enforcement there on the scene. But I think a lot of people see that and they think, wait a minute, there's an active investigation happening here, and yet a pool company is showing up. Does that, I mean, does that raise any alarm bells for you, John?

52:30Don Lemon:No, quite the opposite. I would say, you know, first of all, when you're in the middle of a kidnapping, the first thing to go by the wayside is details, keeping up with, you know, emails, bills, everything else. Is it possible that this is the regular pool maintenance and the family forgot to turn that off? It'd probably be the last thing I would think about. I would suggest it's far more likely that the FBI and the sheriff's office said, you know we've checked the the septic tank the surrounding areas and visually the pool but we would like to get into the traps and drains and systems inside the pool to see if anything was discarded and went down there and wanted the help from the people who normally maintain it that would be my best guess yeah John

53:09Jake Tapper:Miller Frank Faglisi really appreciate your insight and your expertise thank you we do have much more to come now on that breaking news in the Guthrie case ahead including a closer look at how investigators were able to recover footage from the missing doorbell camera. Also the questions about privacy concerns that this is all raising. Plus European leaders and top U.S. officials meeting at the Munich Security Conference seemingly agreeing the old world order, it no longer exists. CNN is live in Munich next.

53:45Jake Tapper:In our world, lead a dire message from European leaders at the Munich Security Conference today. The motto for this year's gathering of security experts is under destruction. Bit of a warning there. Some going so far as to say the old world order is already gone for good. We have to put it in even harsher terms. This order, as flawed as it has been even in its heyday, no longer exists. It was a feeling echoed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio just hours earlier.

54:23Don Lemon:The old world is gone, frankly, the world I grew up in, and we live in a new era in geopolitics.

54:30Jake Tapper:CNN's Nick Payton Walsh is live in Munich this hour. So the conference placing a lot of the blame for this disruption. Squarely, it would seem, on the United States. I mean, how pervasive is that feeling among leaders there?

54:42Don Lemon:yeah i mean remember this is a europe dealing with the trauma still of not only what it's seen happening with ukraine the biggest security crisis to hit the european continent since really world war ii but also the debacle frankly around greenland and president trump's threats to potentially even use military force against what is danish territory they're still in recovery here i think a europe that's trying to say it has its own plan that's willing to take charge of its own defence. Yes, they're committing to spending more like the United States wants. But I think people still hear recovering from last year's speech from US President J.D.

55:18Don Lemon:Vance, who criticised falsely democratic standards here, freedom of speech. We saw the French and German leaders getting out ahead of that today, making comments suggesting that they didn't want to see MAGA's cultural wars played out in Europe. And that indeed, in the words of Emmanuel Macron, the French president that territorial sovereignty was as important to France as its ability to decide its own freedom of speech rules and control its own democracy. So trying to set their own standards here ahead of a key speech tomorrow by US Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He'll also meet Ukraine's president, Vladimir Zelensky, here.

55:53Don Lemon:But be in no doubt, Europe is still reeling from this. You call the old world order old, it kind of means it's past and defunct, but I think people here are still trying to work out exactly what takes its place. They know Europe has to be in charge of its own destiny more. It can't rely on the United States too, but it knows the US doesn't want to back out entirely. And they also know too it's exceptionally hard to read exactly where President Trump's going to land day by day and therefore hard to form policy. What's not getting as much focus so far as it has in the past is Ukraine in itself. We heard from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky at a smaller gathering just hours ago a very clear definition of what's going on here.

56:35Don Lemon:He said it's only Ukraine defending Europe, it's only Europe paying for Ukraine's defence, it's only the United States that can stop Russia and it's only Putin who wants to continue the war. I think that puts in stark focus the challenges here. Marco Rubio will meet Zelensky tomorrow, many suggest, and of course the pressure for a peace deal will be placed again on Kiev. Zelensky today saying they felt it was unfair Ukraine should be being forced into compromises here. So a lot riding here and still ultimately a Europe reeling from the enormous unpredictability of the current White House occupant, perhaps hoping to avoid the trauma of last year with Secretary Rubio's speech tomorrow, but a real sense of everything ultimately being up for grabs and how hard it is to formulate a coherent policy when so much constantly changes.

57:25Don Lemon:Erica?

57:26Jake Tapper:Yeah, absolutely. Nick, really appreciate it. Thank you. President Trump telling reporters just moments ago he believes regime change in Iran is the best option on the table. We have his comments, which come as the U.S. moves more troops to the region. So does that mean another strike is imminent? That's next.

57:46Jake Tapper:In our politics lead, President Trump, visiting North Carolina's Fort Bragg this afternoon, looked and sounded a lot like a campaign rally. The president, though, did get to his main goal. He was there really to thank the troops who took part in last month's operation in Venezuela that captured Nicolas Maduro and his wife.

58:03Don Lemon:With your help, America is winning again. America is respected again. And perhaps most importantly, we are feared by the enemies all over the globe. They fear us. You know, I don't like to say fear, but sometimes you have to have fear because that's the only thing that really will get the situation taken care of. with.

58:24Jake Tapper:Joining me now, North Carolina Republican Congressman Chuck Edwards. Congressman, nice to have you with us tonight. The president referencing fear there earlier at the Munich Security Conference. Germany's leader said that he believes the international world order, which was based on rights and rules, in his words, no longer exists. How do you see the world in this moment, sir?

58:44Don Lemon:Well, I certainly applaud the work of the fine, brave men and women at Fort Bragg. here in North Carolina. They are a gleaming icon of pride for us here at this moment. And the way that I see this simply is that the world has been watching. They know what we're capable of. And they now know that we're willing to use the force that we saw in Venezuela.

59:11Jake Tapper:The president, speaking of force, the president used this trip to also, his speech rather, should say, to send a warning to Iran. And a reporter then asked the president whether he wants to see regime change in Iran. Here's how he answered.

59:26Don Lemon:Well, it seems like that would be the best thing that could happen. Let's see what happens. In the meantime, we have tremendous power has arrived and additional power, as you know, and other carriers going out shortly. So we'll see it out. If we could get it settled for once and for all, that would be good.

59:44Jake Tapper:Do you think the U.S. will, in fact, attack Iran again?

59:49Don Lemon:That's difficult. to say and that's a decision for the commander in chief to make. What I think is on display. Is the power the might the willingness. Of the American military and. The tenacity of our president to be able to use that to help. Make the world a safer place.

1:00:11Jake Tapper:Focusing a little bit more on domestic issues here the president. Today touting the economy today's lower than expected inflation numbers here's a little bit of what he had to say.

1:00:20Don Lemon:We had a great first term. We had the best economy in history, but this is blowing it away.

1:00:27Jake Tapper:I'm curious, what are you hearing from your constituents specifically about how they feel about this economy?

1:00:36Don Lemon:Everyone is concerned about the inflation that we've experienced over the last several years. We're seeing some glimmers of hope, for example. You know, egg prices are about half what they were. We see interest rates well below what they were a year ago. Gasoline is the lowest that it's been in five years. All of these things begin to add up for a positive economy. We're seeing the GDP rise for the first time in several years. While we've got a lot of work to do, while there's a lot of concern out there, there's reasons for hope.

1:01:15Jake Tapper:I do want to get you, before I let you go, I know you voted for the SAVE Act, which the House passed. If it does become law, one of the main concerns that we've heard is about these tougher voter identification standards when a person goes to register to vote. I'm not talking about voter ID in a federal election. Concerns specifically that if somebody doesn't have a passport, if they don't have access to their birth certificate, if their birth certificate has their maiden name and they've changed their name, it's harder for them to register. Is that a concern for you that this could add a hurdle for residents in your district when it comes to registering to vote?

1:01:51Don Lemon:It is not an undue hurdle at all. In fact, the SAVE Act includes many safeguards that allow it to be easier for those folks with the name changes like you're talking about to be able to vote. And we give a great deal of latitude to the states to help right those exceptions.

1:02:12Jake Tapper:We will be watching for all those developments. Republican Congressman Chuck Edwards, appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you.

1:02:19Don Lemon:Thanks for having me.

1:02:21Jake Tapper:Back to our breaking news here in moments. The Pima County Sheriff telling CNN that Google is working to recover more videos from the home of Nancy Guthrie. Those details next.

1:02:37Jake Tapper:In our nationally, the chilling surveillance video showing this armed masked individual outside Nancy Guthrie's home on the morning of her disappearance. It's been the biggest break in the case so far, but of course it came 10 days into the investigation. Investigators say that's because Guthrie did not have an active nest subscription, which would normally provide for cloud storage for video recordings. Joining us now is the chief product officer at SimpliSafe, Humanchahidi. It's good to have you with us. So this investigation also, we should point out, raises some privacy concerns. Engineers at Google, which owns Nest, were able to recover that footage from Guthrie's home cameras.

1:03:12Jake Tapper:They used residual data. If that footage is not being deleted, I think a lot of people are wondering where is it being stored and why?

1:03:22Don Lemon:Erica, thanks for having me. You know, at least at SimpliSafe, we give customers the choice of whether they want their video stored or they just want to do live views and not have their video stored. For us, if you don't want your video stored, it never hits our cloud.

1:03:40Jake Tapper:So there would be no way to retrieve it if somebody did that, like in this instance?

1:03:45Don Lemon:Yes, and that's why we give the customers choice to be able to save their videos in the cloud and be able to view them later. And really, it's about the privacy that we provide our customers.

1:03:54Jake Tapper:I mean, just out of curiosity, because so much has been made of the fact that it wasn't initially stored because there wasn't the subscription. Have you seen a change among your customers in terms of subscribers? is there's an uptick of people upgrading to that subscription since mrs guthrie went missing

1:04:13Don Lemon:yeah we are actually seeing a lot more traffic to our website and in fact from the area of miss guthrie's home we're actually seeing a 50 spike in web traffic to simply safe because they've been made so much aware of how important security is to protecting protecting

1:04:31Jake Tapper:your family and your home i i will say i just learned this next fact today but that there are a number of cities, including Washington, D.C., where I am tonight, a number of cities will pay residents for access to their camera footage when they need it by law enforcement. This is not a blank check. We can go look into your file at any time. But how common is that, that law enforcement would strike those deals with their residents to make sure that they can access it when needed?

1:04:59Don Lemon:So what we know is that it's actually a pretty niche offering from cities, generally because, you know, it provides additional information for them to follow up on criminal activity. And we really sort of believe that, you know, the video belongs to the customer. And if they want to share with law enforcement, if they want to share it with our family, great. But we never get in the middle of that because it is their property in our view.

1:05:25Jake Tapper:Can you explain the difference between an active and a passive response system?

1:05:30Don Lemon:Absolutely. You know, the trend in home security is becoming more and more proactive. The whole point of proactive security is that agents can actually act before the bad guy has an opportunity to damage home or hurt your family. In fact, we have a service called Active Guard where our agents will proactively talk to potential intruders. And what we find is that the vast majority of the time, that human intervention is enough for the perpetrators to leave the property and not commit the crime. And I think that's a really big opportunity to reduce crimes that may impact your home and your family.

1:06:16Jake Tapper:Security systems are one solution for some people. They may not work for everybody. What are other ways for people that are not a security system, but other ways that you can protect your home from intruders?

1:06:28Don Lemon:Yeah, you know, it's important to just take the general precautions as it is like not making sure that people know that your home is empty, not letting packages line up on the front door. Also, keeping the lights on. There's a lot of smart home solutions out there that allow the lights to turn on and off during the day, making the house look occupied. But really, those are measures that really good, or not good, but really savvy criminals understand. And that's where security comes into place, home security comes into place, and allows us to have a 24-7 professionally monitored system that can actually inform the authorities when something goes on or have proactive agents act in a situation where a crime may be happening.

1:07:22Jake Tapper:Human Shahidi, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you.

1:07:25Don Lemon:Thank you.

1:07:26Jake Tapper:There is new data out today which shows prices are rising on some of the items many Americans use every day. So where exactly are you paying more? You may have a sense, but some of these could surprise you too. Plus, your warning. This is a spoiler alert, people. So if you are a big Olympics fan, just cover your ears for just a moment. Maybe turn away. Do not turn off the TV, though. An absolute stunner at the Olympics tonight. three American men, including the quad god Ilya Malin, competing for a place on the podium. The end result? Not at all what you were expecting. Stay with us.

1:08:07Jake Tapper:We are back now with our Money League. Bit of a mixed report card in terms of the American economy. Inflation in January was the lowest it's been in eight months. That's good news. The cost of many things, though, that we use every day still going up. And as for those tariffs from President Trump, new evidence that it is you, the consumer, paying for those. CNN's Vanessa Yarkiewicz has more.

1:08:27Don Lemon:Erica, some welcome news for Americans to start the year. Inflation cooled in January, rising 2.4 percent annually, compared to 2.7 percent in December, and rising 0.2 percent from December to January on a monthly basis. Falling gas prices helped lead the decline. Now, inflation is still not at that 2 percent target rate that the Federal Reserve aims for, but it is moving in the right direction. Everyday items and monthly expense items saw some of the biggest annual increases and decreases. Still, those pesky higher prices at the grocery store persist. Uncooked ground beef up 17 percent in the last year.

1:09:07Don Lemon:Piped gas, which is natural gas for home heating, up 10 percent annually. Electricity up 6 percent. A little relief at the grocery store, eggs down a whopping 34 percent. And gasoline, those are the gas prices, down 8 percent annually. Now, even though inflation is cooling, prices could have been rising at a slower pace if not for tariffs. A new survey by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that Americans, not foreigners, as the Trump administration has suggested, are paying 90 percent of President Trump's tariffs. And that has meant increased costs for Americans. According to the Tax Foundation, U.S.

1:09:46Don Lemon:households paid$1 ,000 more in taxes in 2025 compared to 2024. And this year, Americans are expected to pay$1 ,300 in taxes because of tariffs. Now, businesses have been trying to shoulder the added costs from tariffs. But according to the Congressional Budget Office, consumers are bearing 70 percent of the cost of tariffs versus businesses which are shouldering 30 percent. And Erika, foreign exporters are taking on about 5 percent.

1:10:18Jake Tapper:Vanessa, appreciate it. Vanessa, with the numbers for us there. Joining me now, the members of The Huddle, a daily online political show with veteran journalist Rachel Bayh, Democratic strategist Dan Turrentine and former Trump White House press secretary Sean Spicer. Nice to see all of you on this Friday. Thanks for having us. Friday the 13th, I just realized. So Vanessa just ran through some of those numbers for us. The president weighing in when he was in North Carolina earlier today on the numbers in the economy. Here's what he said.

1:10:42Don Lemon:We had a great first term. We had the best economy in history, but this is blowing it away.

1:10:48Jake Tapper:Sean, you were there, obviously, for some of that first term. He says it's blowing the first term away. Americans aren't feeling that, right? We know from the polling. Why isn't any of this showing up? Well, it is.

1:10:59Don Lemon:I mean, certain polls show that Americans are feeling it. Real wages are up 1.25 percent. They were down 1.5 or 1.4 percent over the four years of Biden. So, I mean, some of this just takes time for people to start feeling it. You're a correspondent there noting some of these things going into the grocery store. I notice it every day when I go by the gas station. It was$2.89 a gallon today when I went by. I mean, those are things that people see and feel every single day. The price of eggs, as you guys noted, down 34 percent. There's so many things, but it's not going to happen overnight. As she mentioned, it's moving in the right direction.

1:11:29Don Lemon:And more and more Americans are feeling that. Some of this will take time. Four years of Biden doesn't go away overnight.

1:11:36Jake Tapper:In terms of how Americans feel, I will say recent CNN polling found 39 percent nationwide, just 39 percent approve of the president's handling of the economy. Sixty one percent disapprove. Democrats, though, don't get a pass here, of course, because Democrats are really struggling, as they have been for some time, when it comes to the messaging and even how to message on affordability. How critical is it that they figure that out?

1:11:57Don Lemon:Well, look, I think we've got some recent examples that have worked in Virginia and in New Jersey. Mickey Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger focused like a laser beam on affordability. Think about what we were talking about late last year, health care. That is an issue that is top of mind with people. The tariffs are something we proactively put on countries. So, I mean, we have the pieces to talk about affordability. We just have to not get sidetracked by what, you know, is thrown out at us daily with this administration.

1:12:26Jake Tapper:You talk about tariffs. You know, I'll put up again, Vanessa noted this, but this is from the New York Fed. Economists at the New York Fed. that 90 % of those tariffs, the economic burden, is falling on U.S. firms, falling on consumers. I mean, the warnings were there, right, that consumers, Americans, would be paying when it comes to the tariffs. Does that number surprise you at all?

1:12:47Don Lemon:I mean, look, I'm not an economist, but it's certainly a challenge for the White House because they have been saying, look, it's going to be foreigners who are paying this. It's not going to be Americans. Americans are going to be benefiting from this. 90 %? That's a lot. And that's why you have a lot of Republicans in Congress who privately are still terrified of the tariffs. I mean, you saw this week for the first time, I mean, since Trump became president again, they are now able to, they being Democrats, force votes that put Republicans on records on tariffs. Do they support them? Do they not?

1:13:15Don Lemon:This week we saw six Republicans break with the party and vote with Democrats saying they don't support tariffs on Canada. That number is probably going to grow unless, you know, voters start to say the economy is feeling better and you see it in the polling. I mean, this is a challenge for them. They were hoping the administration would go back on tariffs, hoping that they would sort of reduce some of them. He hasn't done that. But you can tell people that foreigners are paying them. But if you're sitting there in your company and you're sitting around the table talking about this, every company on earnings calls and other things are saying we are having to deal with increased costs.

1:13:45Don Lemon:So for the average American, you can, you know, BS them all you want. But in their real lives of real people, they're seeing it. There's three key factors here. Number one, at some point, some politician, and it was President Trump that did it, had to say that how we were being treated as a country, our service providers, our manufacturers were not being treated fairly. We were being able to go into another country and face massive tariffs. They had virtual tariff and non-tariff barrier entry into our country. That's just not fair. So either we can keep kicking the can down the road or do something about it.

1:14:15Don Lemon:Number two is, at the end of the day, either people feel the economy is doing better or not when they walk into that grocery store, when they go by the gas station. And I think more people are seeing it move in the right direction and feeling it. And number three, just politically speaking, it's either going to pay off or it won't. I mean, the bottom line is I'm a big believer that by the second and third quarter, all of the elements and the policies in the big, beautiful bill will be firing on all cylinders. And that's backed up by the Fed and by a lot of private earnings calls. People believe that that's going to happen.

1:14:43Don Lemon:If it does, we win in November. If it doesn't, we lose. But we've put all of our chips on that right now. And that report, though, said the last six months of 2025, net loss of 1 ,000 jobs. One month that was good, not great, isn't going to be enough. They need a lot more of this.

1:14:59Jake Tapper:I do want to turn to this because we are running low on time. But I was just struck by, and I'm sure you all were, this was one heck of a story in the Wall Street Journal about Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski and the, quote, constant chaos at DHS under Noem's leadership. I mean, just some of the details were a lot. and here are a couple that I'll lay out for our friends who are joining us. Within DHS, Noam and Lewandowski frequently berate senior-level staff, give polygraph tests to employees they don't trust, and have fired employees. In one incident, Lewandowski fired a U.S. Coast Guard pilot after Noam's blanket was left behind on a plane.

1:15:34Jake Tapper:They were forced to change planes. This was why, according to people familiar with the incident, then they had to take him back because there was nobody else to fly the new plane, which is also fascinating. I mean, how much of this reporting, right, Are you hearing, when you're talking to people, right, over the last, whatever, year plus, as all of this is starting to come out, how much chaos are you learning about?

1:15:55Don Lemon:The story was bonkers, and yet it wasn't surprising, I think, to the three of us. I mean, we've been hearing about this for a while, people agitating against Noam in the administration. And that story, to me, read like a warning shot from the inner circle to Noam. I mean, the level of detail, as you said. I mean, there was reporting in that story about what the president thinks about her relationship with Corey Lewandowski. I mean, it was very detailed. And, of course, we've seen the reporting. The president says he's with her. He's not going to get rid of her. But other people in the administration are super angry and, like, do not like what she's doing.

1:16:26Don Lemon:And they're saying, shape up or you're going to be out.

1:16:28Jake Tapper:Some senior officials, this was in the piece, told the journal DHS is the, quote, biggest headache so far in the second term. Sean, the president had no trouble firing people in his first term. Second term looks a little different. It does.

1:16:40Don Lemon:But I think the president, more than any other politicians, understands perception. And as soon as this becomes a bigger problem, I have no problem.

1:16:47Jake Tapper:How much bigger does it have to get?

1:16:49Don Lemon:Well, but right now they're getting results. I mean, that's the thing is that once they start, Tom Homan came in. You saw that that was a pretty big rebuke to Kristi Noem and her leadership to say he's going to take over the biggest part of your portfolio. Right. There's no question, as Rachel said, that there's a lot of people in the senior staff who have their eyes out for both Noem and more particularly for Corey. And so at some point, the question is, if they don't get their act clean up and start worrying about how this place is being run, I don't know how much time is left on that clock.

1:17:17Don Lemon:And look, that's the problem, because in that story is the fact that all these made-for-TV and made-for-social-media moments that got out of control, most people of ICE in the White House didn't want them to do it. That's a failure of leadership on Kristi Noem's part.

1:17:29Jake Tapper:The president even questioning, according to that article, where the money was found for her to make some of those ads. So watch this space. Other than that. Nice to see all of you. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day. A controversy growing at the Olympic Games over the scoring in ice dancing after France beat the United States. Quite a score from the French judge. So will the Americans appeal? Do they have the grounds for it? Plus, a stunner in competition on the ice tonight. All of that on the other side of this quick break.

1:18:02Jake Tapper:In our sports lead, an absolutely stunning evening at the Winter Olympics. And if you are waiting to watch in prime time, just cover yours for one moment. I don't want to ruin it for you. Okay, here we go. Ilya Malin, the American skater known as the quad god, missed the podium entirely after being favored to win the gold. And in addition to the shock, it was a really emotional day at the rink. Ilya's teammate Max Naumov also competing, dedicating his performance, of course, to his parents who were killed in the plane crash near D.C.'s airport last year. As he waited for his score, Max holding up this photo of him with his parents as a young child, a photo I think we've all come to know.

1:18:39Jake Tapper:CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan was at the rink for today's men's skate, free skate final. I mean, I think we have to start with Ilya Malinan. My heart just goes out to him. So much pressure on him, so much excitement for him. What is he saying?

1:18:56Don Lemon:You know, he's handling it beautifully. He's a class act. He's 21 years old. And, you know, people hear about the self-proclaimed quad god, Erica, and you kind of think maybe he's confident or too cocky. Yes, he's certainly got some of that, but it's a delightful confidence. I've known him for four years. He's a terrific person, looks you in the eye, lingers, answers any question, any time. His mom is his hero. She was eighth in the 1998 Olympics that were won by Tara Lipinski and then Michelle Kwan coming in second. I covered his mom, you know, American through and through, born in Northern Virginia.

1:19:33Don Lemon:He's a really good young man. And as he's telling us in the mix zone about an hour ago after this meltdown, probably the worst meltdown we have ever seen from a favorite in Olympic history in figure skating. It was that bad, just devastatingly terrible performance on the ice. You know what? He said he felt like it was just slipping out of his hands and he couldn't control it. He said it was moving so fast and he kind of didn't know what was happening out on the ice. The nerves got to him, the pressure. And I think, Erica, if anyone ever doubted just how much pressure there is at the Olympic Games, you watch this young man falling twice and also popping two quads.

1:20:10Don Lemon:Again, he usually does six or seven and he could barely land one or two and literally unable in the air to go around four times. It was a stunning performance of nerves and and just everything getting to him, kind of the weight of the world on his shoulders with all the publicity. and it finally came crashing down on him.

1:20:29Jake Tapper:Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, that pressure. I think it's so hard for any of us to imagine what that must be like on that world stage, in that moment. There's also so much raw emotion, and especially when Max Naumov took the ice, his message to his parents up there on the big screen, Mom and Dad, this is for you. I mean, so many people pulling for him. And, of course, you can't forget the history, the legacy of his parents as you watch him out there on the ice. Exactly.

1:20:58Don Lemon:And he was never going to win a medal. Obviously, Ilya Mellonin did not win a medal either. The U.S. was shut out. But being here was the victory for Max. And also, you know, he had retired, Erica. He basically thought he couldn't go on after losing his mom and dad, who were Russian world champions in 1994. I covered them. They were at the Olympics and then, of course, became coaches in the United States, just like Ilya Malin's mom and dad from former Soviet skaters. And so, yes, he carried on and he knew his parents would want him to be there, and he did it.

1:21:33Jake Tapper:He made the Olympics a wonderful achievement for Max Naumov. It absolutely is. I can't let you go without talking quickly about the controversy when it comes to Wednesday's ice dancing final, the scoring for the American duo. They were expected to win the gold. Boy, did the French judge really like the French ultimately gold medal winners. There's a lot of question. Could the American duo, could they contest that at all? Could they appeal?

1:21:57Don Lemon:They needed to appeal within the first 24 hours. And so that window is closed. But there can be letters of concern and appeal and just in general asking for answers up to a year. And so my sense is the U.S. will probably try to do that. The French judge was completely out of line with the other judges on the panel. The French team did win the gold. You know, ice dance is different, right, from a sport from the men's or the women's where there's jumping. And so I think a lot of ways the artistic side takes over. And clearly there was a lot of controversy in that.

1:22:32Jake Tapper:Christine, really appreciate it. Great to see you. Thank you. A quick note here, too. Sunday on State of the Union, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, White House Borders are Tom Homan, Oklahoma Senator Mark Wayne Mellon, and Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear will all be on the program Sunday, 9 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. Erin Burnett out front starts right now.