Epstein Emails Renew Questions About What Trump Knew & When

26:00And it's as simple as that. So you're saying we were overcomplicating it, it sounds like. We were overthinking it, thinking it was more complicated than maybe perhaps it was. But, you know, it almost sounds too good to be true. I mean, what about the banks here? Is this good for them? Right. So here's where we need to be a little bit careful. So when I say it's all pretty simple, it's all pretty simple if we made all future mortgages portable. Because you're right, there's a lot of math in the background. Banks employ a whole lot of nerds who have huge spreadsheets who think about all the risks and what could go right and what could go wrong.

26:34And that math does change when we're in a world of portable mortgages. Why is that? Because at the moment, your bank might think, oh, you're only going to be in your house for 10 years. Now, if the mortgage is portable, it thinks you're going to keep that mortgage for a long time. So its math changes. So it just means it will change the types of mortgages it offers in the future. If we talk about making existing mortgages portable, that's a lot more complicated than the whole lot hairier. Ah, OK, interesting. So let me ask you about this other idea that's been floated, this idea of a 50-year mortgage to reduce monthly payments.

27:07It's obviously garnered some criticism because of how much an interest you'd be paying over time. What's your take? Look, there's a similarity to these two plans, which I think is really worth emphasizing. Both of them are thinking about demand for housing. Now, the housing problem, the housing crisis, is we have too many people relative to the number of houses. Well, if you make houses more, if all of these things are basically creating more buyers, not fewer, in some sense, they make the problem worse. If you want to solve housing affordability, the single best way of doing it is figure out ways to make it easier to build more houses.

27:44The biggest problem, of course, is zoning local governments. They often don't like to let people build. But that's basically the people within a city saying, hey, we've already built our house in this city. We don't want to share. And so they're preventing that new construction from occurring. But if you want lower house prices, you've got to work on construction rather than working on loans. All right, Justin Wolfers, thank you so much. Nice to see you. Well, if you can't beat them, sue them. Why the Trump administration is joining a lawsuit to try and stop California from redrawing its congressional maps after last week's big ballot win.

28:25And our politics lead, the Trump administration is joining a lawsuit by the California Republican Party trying to stop the state from redrawing its congressional maps. setting up Democrats to get five more House seats in the 2026 midterm elections. Just last week, voters approved the ballot measure known as Prop 50, led by Democrats in a response to Republicans in other states, like Texas, trying to boost their chances of holding on to the House majority, or to win the House majority, we should say. My panel joins us now to discuss this. All right, I'm going to kick it off with a lawyer, okay?

28:56Does that make sense, right? You're welcome. So the Trump administration lawyers are arguing essentially that this plan was sold to voters in California as purely partisan. But actually, this is unconstitutional because it's racial gerrymandering. And it's interesting because that same argument is being made by Democrats, like in Texas, where you're also seeing the gerrymandering fight. And the court in the law technically doesn't care who's making the argument. If parties are coming in and saying that racial gerrymandering is what drove a districting decision, then certainly they can strike it down on that basis.

29:32Now, you know, and I know, and Mo knows, and Schermichael knows that that's a political argument they're making there. And they're throwing it back in Democrats' faces, regardless of what the legal legitimacy of it is. I mean, I certainly can't think of a time in which Republicans have argued racial gerrymandering in court. So we'll see how it all plays out. But that's a very common argument made in these redistricting cases. That's a new one for us. It is. What's funny about this is a lot of Republicans have really made the argument that the 19 potential congressional seats that Republicans would garner out of the success of gerrymandering would yield to our benefits, despite what the overall public sentiment may be on whether or not Republicans have delivered on the cost of living affordability.

30:14But it seems to me, Elliot, and correct me if I'm wrong, these legal cases may take a while. We may not necessarily know if Texas or North Carolina will be successful in adding those additional seats, which does benefit my Democratic friends in November next year. Let me just say, of course they take a while. Things can take years to percolate through the system. Now, I would think any of these parties would file them on an emergency basis, knowing that they have elections coming up and saying, Your Honor, we have to get this resolved by the primary data in our given state. So I would think they'd move along.

30:42But you're right, Schmeichel, it could take forever. And you bring up affordability, sure, Michael, because that is obviously that's really important for so many Americans. The government shutdown is now over, right? But the impact is not. You still have millions of Americans who are uncertain over when they're going to get their food benefits, their health care costs, backup pay. There's a lot going on. But if you ask President Trump, everything's fine. The economy is thriving. Let's listen. costs are way down energy is way down gasoline is at two dollars and fifty cents a gallon versus four dollars and seventy cents for the democrats what's the risk here and president trump not acknowledging the day-to-day reality for so many americans i remember having this debate last year and joe biden and bidenomics it keeps on all the spreadsheets showcasing numbers are amazing.

31:36Everything's doing great. The average person said that may be the case, but I'm not feeling it. Steve Bannon to more mainstream Republicans have all advised the president and the White House to walk away from this message. Republicans were handed the keys to the palace, I would argue, because the average American voter believed that we could do better than Democrats on affordability, on the cost of living. I don't think we've really delivered enough on that front. And I think we're literally handing the keys to Democrats to take over if we don't deliver. Really important point. You know where you see that whole idea a lot in public safety, too, when, yes, the world might be safer, but if people don't feel safe, politicians wagging their finger and telling them, look at the statistics.

32:16Everything is great. You got to meet people where they are. And I think the shutdown sort of put a magnifying glass on that when you talk to some of the SNAP recipients who are marketing their full benefits and the affordability. Go ahead. Yeah, no, I mean, this is a problem almost every incumbent has, right? They don't want to, They love the macro numbers. They want to point to the macro numbers. But if people aren't feeling it, then it doesn't matter, right? What Tremichael just said is actually the message that you ought to be hearing from this president. I know what you elected me to do. We've made some gains, but it ain't enough.

32:51And here's what we're going to do moving forward. This president in particular is incapable of admitting that he hasn't fixed whatever problem it is he says he wants to fix. So there's the disconnect. And I think it's okay, by the way, to say, look, we haven't completely gotten to the place that we want. It's going to take more time, but we certainly don't want to go backwards. We recognize where you are. Give us that additional time. The problem is things are actually getting worse across the board. People are paying more in the grocery store. They're paying more for rent or for housing costs.

33:20And they're about to see their insurance premiums go up. So he's actually going backwards and claiming victory. And that's going to be a problem for him. Go ahead. I don't know if the Democrats, writ large, have the discipline to make that argument. Well, I'm not saying they do. Which is why I think on my side, we still have time before midterms to correct the course. So let me just bring in this sound from the Agriculture Secretary. I had her on my show today, Brooke Rollins. And I asked her about the shutdown and specifically the USDA fighting in the courts against giving full snap benefits to recipients.

33:56And we talked about this pot of money because it can get confusing. This pot of money that was used to transfer money to the WIC program, a separate pot, but not used for SNAP. Here's this exchange. This fund, again, had$23 billion in it, right? And that, even if you took out$4 billion to fully fund SNAP, that pot of money would still feed children through next year. Well, let's talk about that. I mean, are we serious right now? Are we really talking about moving billions of dollars from one pot to another to feed children through next year when the Democrats 15 different times voted not to fund this program?

34:34I understand you want to keep it on Democrats, but what about the children that were hungry now because they didn't get the full staff? Well, then they should understand that the Democrats are the ones that are keeping it, and they even admitted it. What do you think, Mel? You asked her about the families and the kids who are going hungry and what she would say to them. And she said she wanted to make a political argument to them. That's not going to win right now. I think there is a political argument to make. Democrats did vote 15 times. But Republicans who care about families, who understand that people are struggling, we're going to deliver to make sure before Thanksgiving, every single American family has exactly what they need to have a great Thanksgiving.

35:13That's the message. How do you think the voters have got it? Because I've spent a lot of time talking to these, you know, everyday Americans who rely on SNAP. Yeah. Look, it's if you're explaining, you're losing. When you're getting in the minutia of SNAP versus WIC versus benefit. Well, that's because I was asking her those questions. But even still, she sort of veered into territory where is there a government shutdown? Number one, or at least at the time, was there just a government shutdown? Number two, are people struggling? And number three, do people have their food stamps or not? Are people suffering?

35:44And I think if you're not answering that question directly, you're losing. And I just think it's getting a little bit into the weeds and it just, she lost it. All right. Thank you all so much. Love having you on. Iconic filmmaker Ken Burns explores the American War for Independence in a thrilling new documentary. Are there lessons we can still learn from the Founding Fathers? That's next.

36:10In our pop lead next summer, the U.S. will celebrate its 250th birthday. And who better to remind us of the tumultuous history but iconic filmmaker Ken Burns. Jake Tapper spoke with him about his new documentary called The American Revolution, which explores the country's eight-year fight for freedom. The actual birthday is July 4th, 1776. history was happening in my hometown, Philadelphia. The Second Continental Congress was debating the Declaration of Independence. Take us back in time to that moment. It's a wonderful thing. Remember that the actual revolution had begun 15 months before in April of 75 on Lexington Green and then later at the North Bridge in Concord and was pretty much from Concord on a patriot victory as the British are scurrying back to their quarters in Boston.

37:03And there's been lots of debate going on about independency. Most people still want to stick with the crown. They just hope that the king will come to their rescue. It's parliament. That's a mistake. Then in January of 76, Thomas Paine publishes the most important pamphlet in American history, Common Sense, in which he says, no, it's hereditary stuff. It's the kings that are the problems. And what happens is that Second Continental Congress forms a committee. The French need us to, if they're going to give us help, they want us to show that we're going to come together. So a Declaration of Independence is important.

37:35A victory will be even more important. That will come a few years later at Saratoga. But they have a committee of five. Franklin's in charge of it. He assigns the writing to a young 32-year-old Virginian named Thomas Jefferson, who writes in the second sentence of the Declaration, the second most important sentence in the English language after, of course, I love you. And that is, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal. It is the establishment, for the first time, people are citizens. Everyone heretofore has been a subject. And this is a big deal. There's something new in the world altogether, turned upside down, however you want to phrase it.

38:18You start the documentary, speaking of Thomas Paine, You start the documentary with Paine's famous words from a small spark kindled in America. A flame has risen not to be extinguished. Explain. Well, this is the idea of freedom and liberty. And he talks about, you know, despotism is this thing that can be overcome by willing it. In order to be free, man just needs to will it. And what happens is in a couple of sentences after the pursuit of happiness phrase in the Declaration, Jefferson says, all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable. It's not easy to, I mean, it's not hard to understand.

38:56He's just saying that everybody has been a subject before, and we're creating something more difficult, something with more responsibility. That pursuit of happiness, by the way, is not acquisition of objects in a marketplace of things, but lifelong learning in a marketplace of ideas. And if you live a virtuous life, you then kind of earn the mantle of citizenship, the highest office in the land. It's very powerful. It's very amazing. And it's what's animated us for 249 and a half years. The country is so divided right now. It feels so divided. But as you know, the American Revolution, when it came to the American people, was an incredibly divisive time in our history.

39:36Tell us about that period for us, not just about fighting the British, but about how Americans were turned against each other. Yeah, I think, you know, it's always a chicken little. Our own times are always the worst, the most divided, the most whatever. It's really divided during our revolution. This is not just a revolution of ideas and a battle against the British. It's against our own neighbors. There are people who remain loyalists, many people. It's about huge civilian deaths, more so than our own civil war. And it's a global war. This is the fourth global war. France enters on our side, as does Spain and the Netherlands.

40:13We're fighting Britain and the German soldiers that it hires as mercenaries. There are Native American people involved. Of course, among the colonists are 500 ,000 free and enslaved black people. This is an incredible variety of people who are warring against each other, making decisions for liberty, for freedom, opposing those movements. Benjamin Franklin's own son, William, was the deposed royal governor of New Jersey, spent some time in a prison. When he was released, it was presumed he'd go home to England. Instead, he started a terrorist organization of loyalists killing patriots, just as there were many patriot organizations killing loyalists.

40:54I mean, you don't want to be in New Jersey or South Carolina, particularly during the American Revolution, or at least when the Revolution Center focused on those particular colonies slash states, because it was really bad. Kind of guerrilla warfare, insurgency. Really, it's an 18th century war. It's not a good way to die by bayonet or cannon or musket. Yeah, I can't wait. The American Revolution premieres Sunday, November 16th on PBS, of course. Ken Burns, thanks so much.

41:28Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. And this hour, the federal government is officially back open, but the struggles continue. Workers who haven't gotten paid in weeks are still waiting for their checks. Food stamp recipients still haven't gotten their full benefits, and thousands of flights were canceled or delayed today. So how long will it take for everything to finally get back to normal? Plus, new CNN reporting into the special treatment that sources say Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, is getting in prison and how some of her fellow inmates allege they were punished for speaking out about it.

42:03Also, two Trump foes both in court today in an attempt to get their cases thrown out. Lawyers for James Comey and Letitia James say the prosecutor who brought their charges is unlawfully serving in her post. Did the judge give any hints as to how she might rule? And a CNN exclusive with the Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, his message for President Trump and for the American people as the U.S. military deploys warships to the Caribbean and rams up strikes on alleged drug trafficking boats.

42:37The lead tonight, the longest government shutdown of all time, is over with the president signing the House Pass funding package into law late last night. But the work to reopen the government is just beginning. Federal employees now are waiting for 43 days of back pay. Air travel remains slow to dozens of the nation's busiest hubs. All still under Tuesday's FAA order to cancel 6 % of flights. The 42 million Americans who rely on SNAP food assistance may still have to wait a bit until they get their November benefits. Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins told me this this morning. Hopefully by the end of this week, most will receive it at the very latest on Monday.

43:16It's moving, it's coming, and for those who really depend on it, good news is on the way. All right, let's get to CNN's Caitlin Collins. Caitlin? Yeah, Pam, obviously the president signing that bill, as you noted, late last night here. You don't often see him in the Oval Office around 10 p.m., but he was surrounded by the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, and other Republican members of Congress as they were celebrating this longest government shutdown on record now, coming to an end. But it does take some time, as you noted, for the federal government to get back open. And, you know, the SNAP benefits that have been at the center of this fight in the last few weeks of this government shutdown that has been such a big concern for people in different states and whether or not they were getting part of their benefits, all their benefits or none of them, that still takes some time to go into effect, despite what the act secretary, Brooke Rollins, said about that starting to get into place.

44:05A lot of these states are still having to deal with with what this looks like as the federal government is reopening. It's not something they can just do with a magic wand. And so obviously we'll be watching that closely to see how that process plays out. But it also comes as we saw the Solicitor General for the United States withdrawing that appeal that they had filed in court as they were trying to argue with the courts that were saying they had to pay out the full SNAP benefits. He was saying, well, now that the government has reopened, it's basically a moot point and so that didn't need to be filed inside court anymore.

44:36But overall, Pam, as the White House is getting over this government shutdown and now moving forward and dealing with the fallout of other things that are also a result of the shutdown ending like the Jeffrey Epstein discharge petition that got its 218th signature when that new house Democrat was sworn in last night. There was also a conversation here at the White House about what was at the center of this fight for Democrats which is the extension of those Obamacare subsidies because they are still set to expire at the end of next month and it is still a question of how the White House is going to handle that and what it's going to look like.

45:07The president has been railing against Obamacare in the last few days. He did so last night as he was signing that bill inside the Oval Office and talking about how expensive it was. But there is a real question looming for Republicans here in Washington, Pam, which is how they're going to handle that and what that's going to look like going forward. Because I've had some Republican senators tell me they're going to put up a dueling bill on health care when those that Obamacare extensions is put on the floor in the Senate next month, as John Thune has promised to Democrats. It's still a real question, though, of what that's going to look like, what Republicans are prepared to deliver to voters.

45:41Obviously, that's something that's been a long struggle for them. And it is still very much a real question for them here in Washington, despite this government shutdown coming to an end. Yeah. And time is of the essence, because as you noted, those premiums are going up. Caitlin Collins at the White House. Thank you so much. And be sure to watch Caitlin's show tonight, The Source, with Caitlin Collins. She'll speak to Epstein and Maxwell survivor Annie Farmer. That's tonight at 9 Eastern on CNN. Don't miss it. Well, even with the government now reopened, airlines are warning that normal travel patterns are still days away.

46:14Across the U.S. today, more than 1 ,000 flights were canceled and 2 ,200 were still delayed. So let's get to CNN's Pete Muntean at Reagan National Airport near Washington. When could we see air travel get back on track? Because I know a lot of us are thinking about the holidays here, Pete. Yeah, the shutdown hangover, Pamela, has not really worn off yet for the airlines. The good news here is the reports of short staffing and air traffic control facilities across the country has gone way, way down. The high water mark was about 63 facilities with short staffing on Saturday. Now that number down into the single digits.

46:47The big question now, though, for airlines and for travelers, how long will airlines have to comply with this Trump administration mandate to slash their schedules by 6 % at 40 major airports across the country until further notice? Here is the new memo from American Airlines to all of its employees in which it says it may still take a few days for normal controller operations to resume. And we may need to continue to reduce schedules to comply with the FAA's emergency order requirements. I want you to listen now to Delta Airlines CEO Ed Bastian. He says that he's feeling positive with the Thanksgiving rush on the horizon, and airlines cannot wait to return to normal.

47:27Listen. I think we'll be back a lot faster than people think. The last couple days actually were pretty good. Were they? The staffing, as soon as the Senate deal on Monday got approved, staffing levels almost overnight improved dramatically. We will be back to normal this weekend. And yesterday we were over 90 percent on time, system-wide, every flight all day long. And no concerns about Thanksgiving? No concerns. Thanksgiving is going to be a great holiday period of travel.

47:57Cancellations are also way down. 2 ,900 was the big number we saw on Sunday due in part to these air traffic control staffing shortages and some bad weather at major hubs. Now the cancellations hovering around 1 ,000 nationwide. Most of those are the preemptive cancellations. airlines having to comply with this Trump administration mandate. They're having to cancel flights four days out per that new emergency order. So even if the Trump administration did away with that tomorrow, these cancellations would stretch into next week. Pamela. All right. Pete Monteen at Reagan National Airport. Thanks so much.

48:28And here with us now is Republican Congressman John Rose from Tennessee to talk about this. So you just heard Caitlin there at the White House. You heard Pete there talking about the ripple effect still. Even though the government is back open, there's still people who are suffering. There's still people who haven't gotten their SNAP benefits, who are stuck at the airport, who are worried about their health insurance. And I'm wondering what you're hearing from your constituents about what they need the most to recover from the longest shutdown in history. Absolutely. So proud, though, that we have ended this shutdown and gotten the process underway to get government back open.

49:02And, you know, I think what we learned from this is that we just simply cannot use the American people as leverage in these political fights. What I'm hearing from Tennesseans is, you know, they've seen traffic delayed. They've seen their benefits and their salaries, their pay delayed food aid for families that are badly needed. And then in my district, farmers who can't get the labor that they need because the Department of Labor workers were furloughed. And so we have crops spoiling in the fields, work that just can't be done. So the ripple effects are going to go on for a number of weeks and months, in fact, and perhaps in some cases, years.

49:42Are you concerned that could backfire on Republicans? Well, no, because I think, you know, we did our homework all the way back on September 19th in the House to keep the government open, not to try to play any tricks, not to try to use the American people as leverage. And so it's just very unfortunate that it took six weeks for Democrats to come to reckon with that. And for what? They got absolutely nothing. So let's talk a little bit more about that because the Democrats say that, you know, they wanted a plan on health care because we're seeing now the premiums going up without the extension of the subsidies.

50:19And you had Speaker Johnson telling reporters about a potential future vote on those expiring subsidies in the House and what that could look like. Let's listen. We're pulling together the best ideas that we think can, in the quickest fashion, bring premiums down. And so we'll be rolling out some of those ideas. I sent a note to Hakeem Jeffries and I said, look, we would love to do this in a bipartisan fashion, you know, and he and I exchanged texts yesterday about that. I mean, we want, we should do something that is good for all the American people. And if they don't want to use it as a political tool and they actually want to be engaged on that, we're going to open the doormat for them to do that.

50:59Without those subsidies, the KFF says the average premium payments will more than double, and so I'm wondering, will you support a bill that would extend Obamacare subsidies? Well, you know, we were debating and discussing this, negotiating on this all the way back in September, so it's unfortunate that we lost six weeks of trying to solve this problem. What's important to remember is that 80 percent of the premium increases have nothing to do with this and this really only impacts about 7 % of the population. So the premium tax credits that we're talking about, which were implemented as a part of the Affordable Care Act all the way back in 2014 that cover people up to 400 % of poverty, they're in permanent law and unaffected by this.

51:41And so we're talking about those folks above 400 % of poverty who were given this special beneficial benefit as a part of COVID era subsidies that the Democrats included and set to expire on this December 31st. So the Democrats set the stage for this. We also have to remember that the premium tax credits don't go to Americans. They go to billionaire, billion dollar insurance companies. And so I think that's why there has to be a discussion about resolving some of the waste, fraud and abuse that we see in this program. insurance companies have an incentive to deny claims for the very people that are assisted by but what's the solution here the urban institute says that if something isn't done about this you may not like obamacare but if something's not done millions of americans will lose their their health insurance because they can't afford the premium so what is the solution i mean will you support that bill that could extend the subsidies or what are you going to do what are republicans going to do what's the alternative here i think we have to be very careful because we don't pull the rug out from under people, but I think we also have to acknowledge and accept the reality that Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, has not delivered on the promise to lower health care costs and lower insurance premiums, but has had exactly the opposite effect.

52:56So we've got to provide reforms here that get health care in the hands of Americans and aren't just subsidies to billion dollar insurance companies. Right, but the time is of the essence. I mean, do you agree with that? And so what's the bottom line plan? What are Republicans going to do? Because constituents in your own district are going to be directly impacted if something isn't done soon. Absolutely. So I think we have to get back to the negotiating table quickly. We have to try to make up for the lost six weeks that we've seen, you know, thrown away by the Schumer. Of course, the Democrats argue, well, the Republicans are out and they should have been there negotiating with them.

53:31As you all know, everyone has their talking points. But are you willing to just even in the short term, extend the subsidies to get that relief while you work out another plan? I think there will be a very rigorous discussion about how we take care of the American people and what the solution should be. But I think we have to start with the understanding that the goal is to get health care for Americans, not necessarily health insurance and certainly not subsidies to health insurance companies who then have an incentive, frankly, to deny the American people of the health care that they actually need.

54:04And so you agree with what President Trump has floated, giving that money directly to the everyday American? I think actually getting resources in the hands of Americans and reforming our health care provider system so that it's competitive and so that patients and doctors can make decisions and that health care is available to Americans. That's the end goal. All right, Republican Congressman John Rose from Tennessee, thank you for your time. Thank you. Appreciate it. Well, Judge today said he will make a decision soon on whether to toss the cases against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James.

54:36But did he give any hints as to how he was leaning? CNN's Caitlin Polins was at the courthouse today and joins us live. Plus, the BBC apologizes to President Trump for how a clip of his speech was edited. But the broadcaster says it will not pay him any damages. The company's explanation ahead.

55:00And our law and justice lead fireworks at a Virginia courthouse today. attorneys for Jim Comey and Letitia James made their cases to disqualify President Trump's handpicked interim U.S. attorney. Comey's lawyer had argued that Lindsay Halligan, you see her right here, who has been called, quote, the indictment signer by the judge, had, quote, no authority to bring the cases. The judge also revealed there were missing notes from Comey's grand jury transcript. CNN's Caitlin Polance was in that courtroom. And Caitlin, we hear there were audible gasps after the judge asked a certain question. What happened?

55:35Yeah, the tension, the drama. I mean, this was a very lengthy argument with very dense legal issues at play. How long someone like Lindsey Halligan can serve in that position as the top prosecutor without being Senate confirmed. But in that moment, I was sitting in the middle of the courtroom. There were some gasps because the judge went there. Her final question to the Justice Department attorney, Henry Whitaker, was, Do you believe US v. Trump, decided by Judge Cannon in Florida, the classified documents case, was wrongly decided? What she was referring to is Donald Trump winning that case as a defendant, getting it thrown out because he had argued that the special prosecutor, Jack Smith, didn't have the authority.

56:18A very similar thing to what was being argued in this case today. The Justice Department said, well, it's not controlling here, meaning that's a different case. It's a different district. You should look at the facts here. But the judge is grappling with this idea of when is a prosecutor getting the full authority? And in the case of Halligan, should it be at this point in the president's first term without anybody Senate qualified, Senate confirmed? Should it be someone the president selects or at this court should say the court choose who the attorney is that leads that office in the Eastern District of Virginia?

56:54And the judge said that she could make a decision by Thanksgiving, right? Right. She did. And one of the things that she said there is she has to make a decision by Thanksgiving. But she also was digging into exactly what she was going to need to figure out. At one point, she asked straight up, what do you want me to do here of the defense team for James Comey? They say, we want you to dismiss the case, have it banished forever, have it never come back. But then when she asked that question to Abby Lowell, this was another moment of levity in the courtroom or drama, I guess. She said, are you asking me to disqualify Lindsay Halligan from the U.S.

57:30Attorney's Office and also block her from doing anything else in this job? Get her away from the job totally. And Abby Lowell, the defense attorney for Letitia James, said, well, and we're moving to dismiss the case, too. And the judge said, oh, yeah, I got that. I feel like I was in that courtroom. Oh, yeah. Thanks to your reporting. I appreciate that. We're both legal nerds. There's no cameras there. So we got to like. You have to really, you know, bring it. So you did. Thank you, Caitlin. Meantime, President Trump says no American leaders will be present when the G20 kicks off next week. And his reason why?

58:02Some pretty serious allegations against the host nation. CNN's Donnie O'Sullivan is investigating the claims up next.

58:14In our world lead, the G20 summit is set to take place in South Africa next week, bringing in leaders from all around the world, except from the United States. That's according to President Trump, who posted on True Social last week that, quote, no U.S. government official will attend. And repeated claims that white farmers in South Africa are being killed and having their land taken from them. CNN's Doni O'Sullivan traveled to South Africa to investigate those claims of white genocide. It is the topic of the next episode of The Whole Story, subtitled this week, Miss Info Nation, White Genocide.

58:49Doni joins us now. So, Doni, what did you learn? Hey, Pam. Well, not to spoil it all, but there is not a white genocide happening in South Africa. But look, that's what we've been hearing in the U.S., especially over the past few months, from the White House and also just from other corners of the sort of megaverse. And of course, there's been a major change in the U.S. refugee policy over the past year to basically limit the refugees coming into the U.S. to just white South Africans next year. Even within South Africa, this idea of a white genocide is something that most people hadn't heard about.

59:25In fact, many heard it for the first time when it's been brought up in the White House or even in the Oval Office. The reality of what's happening in South Africa is there is a major, major crime problem. A lot of people have to live behind gated communities. There's private security is a huge industry there. But in terms of whites being singled out over blacks, crime there is affecting everybody. And you also spoke to white Americans who say they fear becoming a minority in the U.S., right? Yeah. And that's I mean, I think that's the real sort of reason why we're hearing so much about this in the United States right now, is that obviously there are fears in certain pockets of this country and motivating many political campaigns when it comes to the changing demographics of this country.

1:00:11And yeah, I mean, so what is trying to be presented here in the U.S. of South Africa is to say, look, South Africa is a country where the whites lost control. Apartheid ended 30 years ago, of course, when the minority white population in South Africa ran a brutal system over the black majority. So this picture is trying to be painted in the U.S. that there's something very wrong with South Africa. And the reason is because of race. And yes, we did go to visit one man who is building a whites-only settlement in 2025 in Arkansas. Take a look. Right now, there's about 40 or so people living here, give or take.

1:00:54But you told me there's hundreds of people want to move here. Hundreds of people have applied. Yeah, there are quite a few people waiting to be interviewed. Wow. Are they all racist? Well, it depends on what you mean by racist. Are they racist in the sense that they hate other groups of people and want to deprive other groups of people of resources or opportunities? No. People like Eric are afraid that white Americans are being replaced. And a projection from the U.S. Census has them worried. I think America is due to become a minority white country for the first time in the 2040s. Are you concerned about that?

1:01:32Of course I'm concerned about that. And look at what's happened in South Africa. Right. And so you see there a lot of the fear that is trying to be built up about South Africa is all based on this idea that white people will somehow lose control in the U.S. I will tell you and folks will see on Sunday night that there are many white people living in South Africa very happy and really sort of view this sort of narrative about their country as sort of very much a fringe thing. And many are bemused, frankly, that it's taken on such legs in the U.S. Well, looking forward to watching this, Donnie O'Sullivan.

1:02:07Thank you so much. Donnie's reporting is the feature story of this week's episode of The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper. Look for that Sunday night at 8 Eastern and Pacific on CNN and then later on the new CNN app. Turning now to a CNN exclusive, CNN's Stefano Posibon just spoke with embattled Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro. So tell us, I want to bring you in. You're one of the few foreign journalists in Venezuela. And at a time when we see this tension building with the United States with these boat strikes and the building up of exercises from Venezuela, what did Maduro tell you? Yes, Pamela.

1:02:44Well, that was really rare access. I think it's the first time in six years since before the pandemic that Maduro responded to a question by a foreign journalist here in Venezuela. It was not planned. We were on the streets trying to speak with Maduro supporters in front of the presidential palace. He suddenly came out. I reached out to him and I asked him if he had a message for President Donald Trump. Take a listen.

1:03:10President, are you concerned about the possible aggression? We're focused on the people, governing with peace, with these young people building. What is your message to the people of the United States, President? To unite for the peace of the continent. No more endless wars. No more unjust wars. No more Libya. No more Afghanistan. Do you have a message for President Trump? My message is, yes, peace. Yes, peace. And Pamela, I don't— these type of messages is something that we have heard from Maduro before, especially in his almost daily TV appearances in a much more controlled environment here in Caracas.

1:03:56What I think it's important to highlight is the context that he is a sitting head of state, but also a man who has a 50 million dollar bounty on his head. And the fact that he was able to walk around the streets of Caracas surrounded by supporters, but ultimately just regular people, and the fact that even somebody like me, a reporter for a foreign news network was able to approach him and ask him those questions, despite, of course, the security apparatus around him, perhaps sends up the message that he's not just as worried as somebody in the White House would like him to be. We've heard for weeks, especially from Washington, words that Maduro is cautious, that he's willing to negotiate, that he's fearful for his future.

1:04:38Well, perhaps the fact that there is, of course, a lot of almighty pressure on Maduro coming from the warships outside the coast of Venezuela. But it doesn't look like Maduro is willing to bend to the pressure anytime soon, Pamela. All right, Stefano Pozibon in Venezuela with that rare access to President Maduro. Thank you so much. Well, brand new CNN reporting reveals that special treatment that Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell allegedly is getting behind bars. An attorney who represents multiple Epstein victims will join us live to react up next.

1:05:15And our politics lead next week. The House will vote to force the Justice Department to release the Epstein files, and Republican sources say House Republican leaders are bracing for a significant number of Republicans to break from President Trump and back this bipartisan bill. Supporters are pushing for 290 votes, a veto proof majority. Meanwhile, Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, is seemingly not having the worst experience at her white-collar prison where she was quietly transferred to in August. Sources tell CNN she is being given privileges not afforded to other inmates, including having a cell all to herself, unlimited toilet paper, special arrangements for guests, able to play with a puppy, all kinds of things.

1:05:57Let's discuss now with Jennifer Freeman, an attorney representing Epstein survivors. Hi, Jennifer. Thank you for coming on. There has been a lot of Epstein-related news to process since yesterday. How are your clients doing? Certainly, there's hope here, and we're always delighted to see movement, and we're very thrilled that the petition is now ready to go to the floor. But let's also step back a minute, because this is all part of the largest government and legislative and law enforcement failure in U.S. history. The survivor voices have been ignored for decades, and the majority of people who should be implicated in this have been not held to account.

1:06:50Remember, Maria Farmer, my client Maria Farmer, in 1996 brought this to the attention of the FBI, reported the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell to the FBI. And what did the government do? Absolutely nothing. had the government done their job, over 1 ,000 victims could have been spared and 30 years of trauma avoided. It's heartbreaking. Meantime, we see here a picture of Ghislaine Maxwell. Yesterday, there was a lot going on before Congresswoman Grijalva was sworn in, Trump and his top officials either called, texted, or met with at least two of the three Republican Congresswomen who had signed on to this petition, seemingly in this last ditch effort to try and get them to remove their names.

1:07:38None of them did. Why do you think the administration tried this? I think this is all part of the government's failure to do their job to really help survivors, listen to survivors, and look for the truth. We are very hopeful that the lawmakers will do the right thing. They will seriously consider the Epstein File Transparency Act, vote in favor of it, and finally release the files. It is just enough. It needs to be done. What is your reaction to this reporting that Galene Maxwell is not only in a nicer prison now, but she's getting these privileges not given to other inmates? That is deeply disturbing to survivors.

1:08:22they see this over and over again, that there's preferential treatment to whether it's to Maxwell, and certainly it was for Epstein, and all the others, those that are implicated in these crimes that have not been held to account. This is part and parcel of that. The files need to be released. Truth. And remember, this is about more than just the files. It's about truth. It's about the survivor voices, it's about accountability, and it's also about restoring faith in the U.S. justice system. Is there anything that can be done on the legal front to prevent Gaylene Maxwell from receiving this kind of treatment at this jail that has been reported?

1:09:05I mean, is there anything you can do as a lawyer? I do not believe so. I am not aware of some action we can take. This is up to the Bureau of Prisons and ultimately it's going to be up to the president as to how he handles this and we are very hopeful that Ghislaine Maxwell will serve out her term in prison as is appropriate. Jennifer Freeman, thank you for your time. Good to be with you. Tonight the BBC is officially apologizing to President Trump for how it edited one of his speeches, but the company says it will not pay him any compensation. Why? Their explanation up next.

1:09:53In our world lead, the BBC has apologized to President Donald Trump over a documentary that Trump's lawyers describe as false and defamatory. CNN's Max Foster has the latest on the fallout that has plunged the BBC into a crisis. Max? Pam, the BBC has spent several days considering this, and they've ended up sending a letter from the BBC lawyers to Trump's lawyers and a personal letter from the BBC chairman to Trump himself. And they do appear to have satisfied at least one of his demands, which was a personal apology over an edit in a documentary, which the BBC accepts was a mistake. Now Trump also asked for a full and fair retraction of that documentary.

1:10:37And on that the BBC says they will not rebroadcast the show. Will that be enough of a retraction for Donald Trump? We'll wait to hear from him. Trump's third demand for appropriate compensation is less clear here. Only the BBC saying that they strongly disagree there is a basis for a defamation claim. That suggests they are ready to go to court if President Trump takes them to court. he has threatened legal action if his claims aren't satisfied. That being said, they may have offered some sort of other settlement that we don't know about away from court. They're under huge pressure from politicians not to do that because the BBC is a publicly funded organisation and that money will inevitably come from taxpayers.

1:11:19So there's a lot of pressure for the BBC not to send Donald Trump money over this. If Donald Trump accepts this reach out from the BBC, It will potentially end a very painful period in the BBC's modern history. If he doesn't accept it, it could end up in court, even if he isn't likely to win the case. And the story will rumble on and on and on and put even more pressure on the BBC. Pam. All right, Max Foster, thank you so much. And turning to our politics lead now, as some progressive House Democrats call for a Senate minority leader, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer to step aside over that deal to end the shutdown, former House Speaker and influential Democrat Nancy Pelosi still has his back.

1:12:01Do you still support Senator Schumer and his role as minority leader? Yes, I do. No, I don't support the President of the United States as the worst president for children America's ever had. And while Democrats continue to point fingers at each other, one battleground Democrat, Congresswoman Susie Lee from Nevada, is begging her colleagues to end the blame game, saying yesterday during a closed-door meeting, quote, quote, stop pissing on each other and start pissing on Republicans. Direct quote. We're back with the panel. All right. So there you go. She didn't mince words there. I want to take a listen to what Senator Murphy said on Fox News about all of this.

1:12:42Let's listen. This is the fourth major moment this year where a handful of Democrats have crossed over and voted with Donald Trump. That means we need more effective leadership. That also means that the caucus has to decide for itself that we're not going to continue to break apart like this. Santa Murphy, of course, is a Democrat. You have the midterms a year from now. How is this infighting helping Democrats, Mo? It's not. I'm fully on Team Susie there, right? Like, you don't have to agree with what happened with the shutdown fight, but it happened. And now what do you do? You pivot and you move forward.

1:13:26And now we've got an opportunity, Democrats have an opportunity to take the fight to Republicans on the issue this whole shutdown was all about, health care costs. Rather than sit here and yelling at each other and pointing fingers and playing the blame game, they ought to pivot and be blaming Republicans or putting pressure on Republicans to do the right thing when it comes to the Obamacare subsidies. I mean, it's communications 101. They could have won. Look, I think they lost, after this shutdown went on for longer than five days, they lost their message arc with the subsidies and it went on far too long but they're doubling down on their failure with all of this infighting.

1:14:10But what about now I mean you have the infighting but you also have pressure on Republicans as Mo said to come up with something when it comes to health care because the reality is that these premiums are going to go up a lot for Americans who are saying I can't afford this so whether or not you like Obamacare that's the reality and I just had a Republican on from Tennessee and pressed him on this and Republicans have yet to lay out a plan. I think, well, first of all, it shows that Obamacare is broken. The fact that we have to have subsidies for a program that's supposed to fund itself is ridiculous on its face.

1:14:45But I think what most Republicans recognize is if we're going to have these subsidies, we need to fix some of the other systematic problems within it. And that's where they're going to push back and say, we need to have these, you know, reform X, Y, and Z in addition to the subsidies and not just continue a program for the next two, three, four years? When people's insurance premiums double in the coming weeks and months, they're not going to be sitting there and thinking to themselves, well, this is a failure of the system. They're going to say this is a failure of Republicans who didn't fund this program.

1:15:20That's the political reality and why you do see some Republicans starting to break ranks a little bit saying, guys, we have to deal with this. I hope more of them do. But this is the space that Democrats ought to be leaning into right now, right? Politically, that's the messaging they ought to be leaning into. And as you look into the midterms, and I want to let you talk, there's also, you know, the price of what's happening right now. And President Trump, for his part, saying, look, everything is fine, everything's going down, when the reality for day-to-day Americans, for many Americans, isn't that.

1:15:51They're not experiencing that. They're not feeling that. Are you concerned that that could backfire? I'm absolutely concerned about that because the economy is not about the facts and figures that come out of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's about perception. How do people feel? This is exactly what Joe Biden and Kamala Harris did not understand in the last election that really led to a great extent of Donald Trump winning in 2024. And we can't, as a party, make the same mistakes. So this has got to be about opportunity. This has got to be about, you know, the president explaining how the tariffs are really benefiting the American people.

1:16:30Maybe we can lower tax rates for the lower income brackets because of the amount of money the government is taking in on tariffs. There's a lot of things that we can be doing as Republicans that we're not. What do you think, Mo? A 50-year mortgage ain't one of them, right, as he tossed out the other day. I don't think he gets how this is impacting people in their daily lives. I really don't. The same day he's out there saying, we're going to change mortgages to 50 years instead of 30 years, which would double, right, your interest payments over the life of the loan. Over the life of the loan, right?

1:17:06He's creating a short term. But at the same time, the very same day he proposes that, He's giving a Fox News host a tour, showing off all the gold in the Oval Office, right? Like that is the kind of split screen that just tells the American people, he's not getting me right now. And that is a problem for this president, who a good part of his success over the past decade has been people believing he gets me better than the other guy does. Right now, it sure doesn't sound like he does. But do you actually think that will change anything for his base? I mean, they are so loyal. They are loyal, but I do think at the end of the day, especially the midterms, which we're talking about, what we just saw in the past Tuesday's election in blue states, granted, but Donald Trump wasn't on the ballot.

1:17:55And we didn't see the Republicans that turned out in 2024 turn out in 2025. I do have a big concern that the Republican Party hasn't solved that issue of not having Donald Trump on the ballot. So his voters may not be affected, but the other independent and other Republican voters will be. And his voters are loyal to him. Right. Not to average congressional Republican congressional candidate that's on the ballot next year when Donald Trump is not. Right, exactly right. That's what you're concerned about. That's my concern. I don't know why you're concerned about it. Oh, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled.

1:18:30Exactly. What about how the administration has dealt with the Epstein files? I mean, you have a Republican congresswoman going to the White House yesterday to have a meeting in the Situation Room. And our reporting is that, you know, part of this was a pressure campaign for her not to sign on to the petition. I mean. Oh, I think part of this is they recognize that this story is going to continue and continue and continue now. And so they were trying to get Boebert off that that that petition. So I totally understand why they tried to do it. But this is this goes back as again, we started with Communications 101.

1:19:03one. They should have faced this up a lot sooner, but they need to, they just need to continue now and keep pressing through. All right. We'll see. We'll see what happens. A lot of what ifs. Thank you both. Appreciate it. So many of you had questions about this week's FDA announcement on hormone therapy for menopause. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to answer some of those up next.

1:19:31In our health lead, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has returned to answer your questions about hormone replacement therapy medication and menopause. Sanjay, Mavis from Macon, Georgia, wants to know how long should a person be on hormones? Yeah, Pamela, I think this was one of the most common questions that we got. How long should a woman be on hormones? Look, there is no absolute answer to this. There's no magic number. People are used to thinking about medications as being lifelong medications. That's really not the case, typically, with hormone therapy. Average number of years that a woman stays on hormone therapy is around five years.

1:20:11That's according to the Mayo Clinic, usually starting within the first 10 years of menopause, and then around age 60 or so, making sure that the benefits continue to outweigh the risks. You want to start it, again, within that early period, within the first 10 years of menopause, and then reevaluate. I mean, there's all sorts of things, bone density, cardiovascular risk, breast cancer risk, things like that that you want to continuously be reevaluating. But around five years on average, but for some women, it can be a lot longer. Michelle from Clifton, Virginia asks, I'm a 42-year-old woman. When should I start to explore HRT?

1:20:49Are there any tests, blood or otherwise, that can determine if HRT is needed? So this is really interesting. First of all, I think there's going to be a lot more conversations and a lot more questions like this with the black box warning going away on hormone therapy. Perimenopause, menopause, blood test, this is what Michelle's sort of asking about. There is no single blood test to determine whether someone's in menopause or perimenopause. And keep in mind, if you check a hormone level throughout the day, those hormone levels fluctuate. So you're only getting a static picture in time as opposed to getting a sort of more global perspective on what's happening with the woman.

1:21:26Menopause is more strictly defined as having gone without a period for 12 months, 12 months in a row. And the average age is around 51 years old in the United States for menopause. So keeping that all in mind, those conversations should happen earlier than that. and if you're going to start hormone therapy, starting it within the first 10 years of the onset of menopause seems to have the greatest benefit. Around age 60, having conversations with your doctor to make sure that the benefits continue to outweigh the risks. A lot of times, again, people are used to thinking about these medications as lifelong medications, not necessarily the case with hormone therapy.

1:22:04That's all based on a conversation between the woman and her doctor. Pamela? All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Erin Burnett Out Front starts now.

1:22:19From the descendants of history makers involved in the Louisiana Purchase to the Lewis and Clark Expedition, discover the untold stories of American expansion in the CNN original series, This Land. Now streaming on the CNN app.