Executive Order on Childhood Vaccines

25:42India has often been a leading center for cardiac, but the U.S. is very good at cardiac too. But when someone's thinking about cardiac, that's a possibility. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now wherever you get your podcasts.

25:56In our health lead today, I want to tell you about a special woman. Her name was Sydney Toll. She was a TikTok influencer. She documented her treatment for a very rare form of bile duct cancer. She died last week at the age of 26. Sydney regularly shared updates about her battle with cancer, building up an audience of more than 1 million followers. She challenged society's assumption of how cancer patients should look and act and live, all so she could help, in her words, those who are sick and so she could help them feel less alone. I have 661 milliliters of liquid in my bladder, so we're getting a catheter inserted.

26:45I'm done with three out of three days of chemo, one day of immunotherapy, the cells being put back in my body. It was like they got a lot more than they thought. They got, I think, around like$60 billion, which is crazy. And now I'm in recovery, which has been a little difficult. Sydney leaves behind a grieving mother and a grieving brother and grieving friends, countless friends, those who knew her at Dartmouth, those who knew her online. Joining me now is Katie Rossman, a New York Times reporter who followed Sydney's health journey, penned her obituary and wrote a remarkable story about her last year.

27:29First, Katie, thanks for joining us. Tell us about Sydney's impact on other people battling cancer. Well, I think it was substantial, as you can see, if you look at her TikTok and look at the comments and look at the outpouring since she's died. I think that she showed that it's both okay to feel like very unwell and be open about that. And also when you feel okay to live your life and to find joy and to hang out and to travel. And she changed the idea of what you're supposed to look like when you're suffering with cancer. This was, I want to show our viewers, one of the last videos that Sydney posted on her TikTok.

28:08This is July 21st. I'm not going to lie. Every day is extremely challenging. With the pain that I am constantly experiencing. But I have hope that I can do this.

28:32And that's all. Every day is just me taking it day by day. Just keep swimming. Just happy to be here. You wrote about how she focused on trying to persuade her followers to reconsider assumptions about people who have serious illnesses. How much do you think that's going to shape her legacy? I think it will shape her legacy. And I think that it got a lot of people talking in the last couple of years because there was this vivacious young woman who was one day in the chemo bay and the next day was at yoga or traveling with her brother or her friends. and it let people into the reality that cancer can be sometimes a chronic condition, that there are good days and bad days, and that the reason that you treat cancer is to try to have a life and to enjoy it and experience things.

29:26And she was a young woman trying to live, and she didn't want to fully be defined by chemo and by being sick, and she gives permission for sick people to embrace their lives as fully as they can. And I think it's really important. One of the horrible things about what she was doing is that there were this slew of trolls on social media and on Reddit wrongfully accusing her of not having cancer, of criticizing her day in, day out. You write that this tormented her, but she never publicly engaged with them. No. Well, that's what drew me to her last year. They weren't just saying that she didn't have cancer.

30:12They were saying that she was faking cancer. And her TikToks caught my eye, captivated me, as they did many people. And then I found that there was this group on Reddit that was dedicated to proving that she was faking cancer. And they had spreadsheets and they had they would enlarge pictures to see if the scars were Photoshop. They were calling and emailing health care providers. They were incredibly aggressive. And there was nothing that she could do to convince them. And anytime she went online, which was a lifeline for her, they would then pick apart her words and what she was wearing and how her hair looked and if she had energy and if she had exercise and if she was traveling as proof that she was faking cancer.

31:02And it was it got to be very, very aggressive. And I came in to write a story about this and find out what was going on online and to find out did Sydney have cancer? and how Reddit was allowing this kind of incredible harassment to go on if she did have cancer, which unfortunately she did. Did any of these people ever feel remorse? Obviously she had cancer. This is so sick. And we should note, these people were under the cloak of anonymity on social media, but it's really not that difficult to find out who people are on the Internet. They think that they're anonymous. You're not really. And I just can't think of anything more twisted than the torture these people put her through.

31:49Did any of them feel bad about it? Well, I was able to figure out the identity of a handful of her most aggressive and intense harassers with actually the help of an anonymous nurse from the Midwest who heard I was reporting the story and got in touch with me and she had sleuthed it out. She did a better job than I did. Um, we didn't hear a lot of remorse. After my story came out, Sydney, and I was given permission by Sydney's mother to share this today, Sydney did receive a letter from a lawyer representing one of the trolls saying that this person wanted to apologize to Sydney. But first they needed Sidney to sign some sort of document promising that she would not make a video or tell anybody about the apology.

32:43And Sidney actually gave it thought. She was not a vindictive person. She wanted to think it through and see if it was something that could be helpful to her or others. And she eventually said to me, you know, it doesn't take an NDA to say sorry. Saying sorry is a very simple thing, and I need to save my energy for interactions that are meaningful, not somebody who's asking me to sign something in order to apologize for doing the unforgivable, I think. So, Katie, I reached out to some of these people over the weekend who harassed Sydney. I sent them texts and emails. I followed up with them multiple times.

33:27None of them wrote back. I wanted to know what they had to say now that Sydney was dead. We should note, these are not incels in their basement. These are all women with careers. Some have husbands. And as you note, Katie, even from her deathbed, Sydney never publicly engaged them, nor their names. I could tell you the names of these women right now who harassed this young woman dying of cancer. I know who they are. It's not as tough to find people who think they're anonymous online as you might think. But I'm going to follow Sidney's lead and treat them with grace. But I hope that they're watching and I hope they think about their actions and they learn from Sidney and lead with grace instead of the sad paths they've chosen to go down this far.

34:10Katie, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for telling Sidney's story. Thanks. Recent deaths at an immigration detention center have sparked a big civil rights investigation. I'm going to speak with the state attorney general leading the charge ahead.

34:26Internationally, New Jersey's attorney general is investigating possible civil rights violations at Delaney Hall. That's the state's largest immigration detention center. The investigation comes nine days after ICE confirmed that Edwin Lopez Cornejo, a Salvadoran detainee, quote, experienced a medical emergency, unquote, and died at the facility, making him the second detainee to die there in just eight months. The detention center, which is owned by the private prison company, the GEO Group, has long faced allegations of inhumane conditions, sparking days-long protests and clashes with law enforcement earlier this year.

35:03Joining us to discuss is New Jersey Attorney General Jennifer Davenport. General Davenport, what do you hope to uncover with this investigation? Well, frankly, Jake, I hope to uncover nothing, right? We hope that we do in every single case that no one's civil rights are being violated. That is what I hope. But I can also say that we have subpoena authority. We take that very seriously. And we ensure that if we're using a subpoena, we send them because we believe we have credible evidence of violations supporting our concerned. So while I hope I find nothing, we have an investigation and exactly that at this point.

35:45This is just the latest legal action between the state of New Jersey and the GEO Group. That's the company that operates Delaney Hall. In June, you sued the GEO Group after it blocked state health inspectors from entering the facility. Tell us more about the GEO Group and where does that previous lawsuit stand? That lawsuit is still ongoing. That is a completely separate action. We represent the Department of Health there. Our health inspectors have the authority to inspect facilities across our state, and they have access to do so every single day. But GeoGroup has blocked that access, and that is still in litigation.

36:23That's a pretty shady thing for a private prison company to block state health inspectors. Yeah, I mean, we have said from the beginning, as the representatives for the Department of Health, they are allowed to go in and inspect kitchens, inspect medical facilities, inspect all different parts of a of an entity. And here they have denied us access. The Department of Health is not allowed to get in. They've had limited access when they have been in. So we're continuing to press forward because, as you say, there's there's no reason whatsoever that the facility should block that us that and entitle us to have that entry and an inspection.

37:05How are you moving forward with this new investigation if state inspectors can't even get access to Delaney Hall? So we've issued subpoenas on Friday. And the issue that we're looking into here is whether the geo group and whether there's adequate medical care being provided to the detainees. This is a longstanding principle. This is guided by 50 years from the Supreme Court's decision 50 years ago that said that people who are detained deserve adequate medical care. And if you think about why that is, think about you or I. If we wanted to go to the doctor, we could. If we could go to the pharmacy, we can go and pick up our prescriptions.

37:45Those folks who are being detained don't have that ability to go and do that for themselves. So they rely on those within their care. So here we're looking at this. We've issued these subpoenas. It's an investigation to see whether there's additional information that would support what we have our concerns at the moment. Has the Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen or any officials at the Department of Homeland Security spoken with you since you announced this investigation? No, and to be clear, these subpoenas are to the GEO Group, the private facility that runs this detention facility.

38:23I want to, as long as I have you, briefly ask you about the state's voter registration debacle, because last month we learned that more than 6 ,000 non-U.S. citizens were registered to vote in New Jersey between 23 and 24 and about 400 cast ballots. The governor, Mikey Sherrill, blamed a software glitch involving the vendor, Idemia, I think it's called. But the company says that systems work properly and that it's the state's motor vehicle commission that wrongly sent non-citizens information to election officials. Do you have any idea where that investigation stands? So the governor has announced that independent investigation and has announced that those results will be public when that's concluded.

39:01OK, New Jersey Attorney General Jennifer Davenport, thank you so much. Thank you. In our Law and Justice League, a murder trial nearly 30 years in the making. Jury selection began today in Las Vegas. For the only person ever charged in the killing of rap icon Tupac Shakur, Dwayne Keefe D. Davis is accused of orchestrating the fatal 1996 shooting on the Las Vegas Strip. In court today, Marion Suge Knight and Sean Diddy Combs were among 200 potential witnesses named by prosecutors, although only 30 to 40 are expected to testify. In our sports lead, Florida's attorney general says he'd handle a weekend controversy in the WNBA with criminal charges.

39:41The threat stems from Desanae Carrington of the Chicago Sky getting ejected on Saturday for a flagrant foul on Sophie Cunningham of the Indiana Fever. Cunningham was shooting a layup when Carrington came from behind and hit her in the head and neck, knocking her to the floor. Now, minutes after the ejection, Carrington posted on social media the words white privilege and tagged the fever. It wasn't too long after that that Florida Attorney General James Youthmeyer posted on X, quote, the WNBA knows better than to play games down here in Florida because I'll be charging people with assault. He later posted, I should probably clarify, assault and battery.

40:20We should also note that his take doesn't really carry much weight since the WNBA literally has no teams in Florida. Cunningham has drawn attention recently over comments opposing transgender women competing in women's sports leagues. Coming up next, Trump and his cabinet just upended the childhood vaccine schedule based on Trump's feelings. We're going to talk to some actual doctors about what parents need to know.

40:55Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump signs a sweeping executive order aimed at massively changing how children get vaccines. The president insisting that children should get fewer shots over a longer period of time. Despite very little scientific evidence supporting those changes, we're going to get reaction from a top vaccine expert and a former director of the CDC in moments. Plus, one of Michigan's top Democrats announced that she's gonna skip her party's nominating convention, citing the rise of anti-Semitism in her party and not feeling safe there. What she thinks is the failure of leadership to stop it.

41:31That Democrat, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel joins us live to explain why. Also, a recent poll shows that most Americans do not want AI data centers to be built near where they live, but these data centers are still popping up all over the country. The Kentucky governor, Andy Beshear, is here to share his concerns and the restrictions he's putting in place as the AI industry grows. And as the Odyssey breaks box office records, we're going to be joined by someone who played a key role, although you've likely never heard her name, Devin Dalton, drawing praise for her work as Matt Damon's stunt double in one particular exciting scene.

42:07She joins us live ahead.

42:12The lead tonight, the Trump administration's push to significantly alter the nation's childhood vaccine schedule. President Trump signed an executive order today calling for fewer recommended vaccinations for young children. In announcing this move, which upends decades of proven science, President Trump made wild claims, false claims, about childhood immunizations. Decades ago, children received only a small fraction of the vaccines required today. In those times, people were much healthier. And of course, the high rates of autism now observed did not exist. So there's a reason for such epidemic rates of autism.

42:56We should know extensive scientific research by actual experts has found no evidence of a link between vaccines and autism. The executive order also moves to split the combined measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, or MMR vaccine. So the MMR, we want to have separate visits, separate times. I saw this early on, and I've seen proof of it, where they have a vaccination that looks like the size of a bottle of soda poured into a little child's body, and bad things happen in too many cases because this is an explosion, this is an epidemic. Separating the MMR vaccine is a change President Trump has long sought, not because the combined shot isn't safe and effective, not because medical experts and scientists think it's something that should happen, it's because President Trump feels, feels this change should happen.

43:58The MMR, I think, should be taken separately. This is based on what I feel, the mumps, measles, and the three should be taken separately. And it seems to be that when you mix them, there could be a problem. So there's no downside in taking them separately. If you missed that, that's the president saying that this change to childhood vaccines is happening, quote, based on what I feel, unquote. Medical experts say the combined MMR vaccine is safe. They warn that separating the shots could leave children vulnerable to dangerous diseases between doses. According to the nonprofit Our World in Data, the measles component of the MMR vaccine alone has saved an estimated 94 million lives worldwide over the past 50 years.

44:51The CDC says about 93 % of current measles cases in the U.S. are among people who are unvaccinated or whose vaccination status is unknown. Let's discuss with people who have their judgments based on science and medicine and not feelings. We have with us Dr. Richard Besser, the former acting director of the CDC. We also have with us Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Great Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Dr. Besser, to you first, what's your reaction to these major changes to the childhood vaccine schedule, including how many immunizations are recommended for a child's earliest years?

45:29You know, Jake, I think the idea that the president of the United States would make these changes based on what he feels flying in the face of decades of science is, it's absolutely unbelievable. I haven't seen anything like this in my career. I practiced pediatrics for over 30 years and would always count on the recommendations that came from the expert committee that advised the CDC to ensure that what I was doing was safe, was effective, and I could go forward to my patients with confidence and make a recommendation. What the president has done here is he's making another attempt to put forward a vaccine schedule that's based on the Secretary of Health's wild ideas about what should be.

46:19And it leaves our children really vulnerable. And there are a lot of children who are going to hear what the president, a lot of parents who are going to hear what the president is saying, and they're going to be confused. They're going to be afraid. And unfortunately, they're going to make some wrong decisions about the health of their children. Dr. Offit, in addition to Donald Trump not knowing much about science or medicine and RFK Jr., the health secretary, not knowing much about science or medicine, and in fact, thinking that he's right about a lot of things that he's flat wrong on. Stephen Miller, the White House deputy chief of staff, had something to say about this during the announcement.

46:51Take a listen. You give a kid shot after shot after shot, you're going to have vaccine injuries. You're going to have immunological issues. You're going to have potentially neurological issues. Why do you need to have these shots bundled into these packages? Why can't you split it into five visits and give this young body, if a parent wants to do a vaccine, one shot at a time? Can you answer his question? So based on what? I mean, we have looked at these questions as they've come up again and again and again. Do the fear, I think that people like Stephen Miller or Donald Trump or Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

47:30is that children are just getting too many vaccines too soon, and that somehow is weakening or overwhelming or altering the immune system. But of interest, it's really not the number of vaccines that matters. What matters is the number of sort of immunological challenges in vaccines. I mean, so for example, 100 years ago, we got one vaccine, which was the smallpox vaccine. That was a greater immunological challenge to your immune system than the 18 different vaccines that we get today because of advances in protein chemistry, protein purification, recombinant DNA technology. When Donald Trump was born in 1946, he got two vaccines, the diphtheria tetanus pertussis vaccine and the smallpox vaccine.

48:10That was a greater immunological challenge than his son Barron got when he was a child. Dr. Offit, do most of your colleagues who are pediatricians follow the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's vaccination guidance, or do they look at federal guidance, and is that changing at all? Well, so they look to the American Academy of Pediatrics. Most pediatricians look there and to their advisory body, which is the so-called Committee of Infectious Diseases, which has stood up for children and has a science-based recommendation, unlike that that's made by people like Stephen Miller or Donald Trump or Robert F.

48:45Kennedy Jr. It's hard to watch. Also, the Coke bottle, where does that come from? A dose of vaccine is roughly one-tenth of a teaspoon of a teaspoon, one-tenth of a teaspoon. So a multi-dose vial would be one teaspoon. Where is he getting this Coke bottle stuff? He makes up a lot of stuff. I'm sure you know that. Dr. Besser, there have been extensive scientific studies of vaccines. No evidence of any provable connection to autism. Yet both Trump and RFK Jr. continue to say that there is a link. Take a listen to the health secretary earlier today.

49:42So first, RFK Jr. said that it was thimerosal, which was an additive to vaccines, Dr. Besser. And out of an abundance of caution, that was removed. And now he's saying it's the vaccine. He keeps just adjusting his claim. And it's not based on science. What's your reaction, Dr. Besser? Well, my reaction is that the secretary, by continuing to go down this path, is deflecting dollars that could be spent to ensure that the children who are autistic can lead their fullest lives. You know, this is a distraction, and it is an expensive distraction, and it's a distraction that is instilling fear. You know, the questions that he's raised about vaccine schedule, about timing, about the number, have all been addressed by science.

50:33But, you know, the fact that we've gone down this road, it started with a physician who's been totally discredited, who raised up these claims a long time ago. They were addressed, they were studied, and they haven't been found to be the case. There's a lot of exciting work that has gone on to try and look at the various causes of autism and a lot of more work that needs to be done to ensure that children who are autistic can fully participate in society. Do you think it's likely, Dr. Besser, that this decision is going to result in lives being lost? you know i i think that that there are quite a number of people who are going to hear this and they're going to be confused and they're going to delay and one of the things that that i found to be miraculous as a pediatrician was every time a new vaccine was was developed and was found to be safe and effective that meant that there were children who i was not going to see with these diseases anymore in my office in the hospital i was not going to have to talk to parents who are losing a child.

51:36And this instills fear where there shouldn't be fear. Dr. Offit, what do you think? I think it will. I think RFK Jr.'s goal is to induce chaos and confusion in the system, ultimately to make vaccines less available, less affordable, more feared. That's his goal. He's an anti-vaccine activist and science analyst for 20 years. And even though he's taken over as Secretary of Health and Human Services, he's that same person. And I think that's right. I mean, we had, you know, two healthy little girls die of measles last year and in the worst measles outbreak we've seen in more than 30 years. And now in the midst of all that, he steps in, does Donald Trump and RFK Jr.

52:14and says, separate the measles vaccine into its three component parts, which will not make it safer, not make it more effective and only mean that you'll be getting six shots instead of two. So all it does is put children at risk for no advantage. Dr. Besser, Dr. Offit, thank you to both of you. To build AI data centers or not to build AI data centers, that's the question worth trillions in the United States as developers, politicians, and locals clash over the pros and cons. We're going to talk to a governor in the thick of the debate next.

52:50In our tech lead coming to an American city near you, AI data centers. Well, it turns out that's not entirely true because there are many obstacles preventing construction of those AI data centers in the first place. Shortages of materials, labor, electrical plants, and then there is growing public opposition. A recent Gallup poll shows seven in 10 Americans do not want AI data centers to be built near where they live. And now several counties and states have proposed or passed laws to ban them altogether. other. Kentucky is the latest state, or commonwealth, I should say, to address data centers.

53:26Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky joins us now. Governor Beshear, so last week you signed an executive order requiring AI data center companies to do the following if they want to do business in Kentucky. One, ensure there's no detrimental impact on residential rate payers or the environment. Two, pay its fair share of local and school taxes. Three, build a meaningful relationship with the community. These are all obligations on the developers. How are local governments supposed to navigate this? Well, I believe whether or not to accept a data center is a very local decision. So for seven out of 10 counties, they might pass a moratorium, but there might be three other counties that 200 jobs could be a game changer and the revenue from property taxes could double the school system's budget.

54:16So I don't believe it's my job to say yes or no to any individual data center, but I can put some requirements in place to make sure that any conversation with the locality starts in a place that will protect the people that call at home. So the first thing is we are not going to approve any data center that will raise utility bills by one penny. We're not going to approve a data center that takes up too much water or pollutes that water or the air. We're not going to say yes to a data center that tries to get out of taxes and do a sweetheart deal. In the end, these are multi-billion dollar developments, probably worth a hundred times more than the company's headquarters.

54:59They need to actually be in with transparency, talking to these communities. And if they want to build a data center, talking about the type of meaningful relationship that they'll have. We've seen that in a couple, but we see a lot of companies falling short. I mean, transparency is an interesting word there, because when I think about tech and big tech, transparency is not a word that comes to mind. They lie, they conceal. I mean, I think if we could all go back in time and as a nation decide whether or not we want Facebook, Twitter, etc., etc., we still don't have all the information about the algorithms and how they're affecting our kids.

55:38How do you require transparency from AI data centers? Well, remember, this isn't just about where they're located and where they get through zoning. What I tell these companies is you can build it, but folks can burn it down. And I don't mean that in the real way of any type of violence. But if you are not a good community partner, if you go back on your word, if you are hiding things, it's not just building these, it's actually operating them. And so what these companies need to do is be clear about the size, the power they'll need, how they're getting it, how they're funding it, the new technology that hopefully improves how they treat the local water.

56:21They need to commit to what they're going to pay in taxes every single year. So a school system or a county can talk about how to potentially use that. And they need to talk about how long they'll be in the community, how many jobs there are, and what they'll pay. If they're not willing to do those, don't come and a community shouldn't accept them. According to the Kentucky Center for Statistics, over the last year, unemployment rates rose in 116 of the Commonwealth's 120 counties. Are you confident that these data centers in Kentucky, if counties approve of them, will create enough reliable jobs that will last for years?

57:02Well, they won't create enough reliable jobs. For the counties that are interested, they could be a part of those jobs. You know, what we're seeing is a record number of jobs created in Kentucky, but we're also seeing more people join the workforce. That overall is a good thing, even though it impacts those unemployment numbers. Now, my job has to be, while setting the right guidelines for data centers, to go out there and to continue to reshore American manufacturing so that we can make what we need in this country. Whether that's GE Appliances, finally growing close to what it was 30 years ago, announcing$3 billion of investment all over the United States from Louisville, Kentucky.

57:44Whether it's Ford continuing to invest not just in the Louisville truck plant, but also finding a future for Blue Oval, which Donald Trump did his best to fire 1 ,600 of my folks that were gonna make EV batteries. My job isn't to say that data centers are the economic development strategy. They're not. They never should be. But to try to create the right rules of the game, of the road for data centers while getting out there and hustling for those higher job opportunities. While I have you, it's been four days since the office of Republican Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said in a statement that he would continue recovering at home after being hospitalized for more than seven weeks.

58:26We haven't even heard his voice or seen video of him. Have you heard from Senator McConnell at all? I haven't. And it's unacceptable, not that I haven't heard from him, but the people of Kentucky haven't heard from him. This is why people think that the Senate or Congress is broken. Mitch McConnell's been there so long, he doesn't think he works for the people of Kentucky, that he can be gone for eight weeks from his job and not call into one news station, even a friendly one, not do one video. So even for people that are concerned about him, he doesn't care about them enough to say, this is what's happened.

59:01This is my timetable for returning. And folks, I'm okay. Does it raise questions on whether he has the capacity? Yes. And what is John Thune, majority leader of the Senate doing? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing to determine the capacity of a member. In fact, he says whether someone has capacity to serve in the U.S. Senate is a question between the senator and his people. Well, guess what, John Thune? He's not talking to his people. This is just asking people to do their basic job, which all your viewers have to do every day. Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, thanks so much. Good to see you.

59:36Coming up, a politician is skipping her state's big political convention because she says she won't feel safe there. She's worried about extremists in her own party. We're going to talk to her about it next.

1:00:06We'll be right back.

1:00:15Thanks for joining us, General Nessel. So you've criticized party leadership for not responding to your concerns about this in the past. Who specifically would you like to stand up more about this? well first and foremost the the party chair should be demanding that we enforce a code of conduct and we have certain levels of decorum um you know party events uh sometimes have been boisterous but lately they have turned um frankly scary and venomous and you know there's a lot of uh videotape footage from what happened in our last convention the endorsement convention that took place in April. And unfortunately, you know, there's no consequences for anybody, irrespective of how you behave.

1:01:02And, you know, these should be inclusive events. We're past the primaries now. This should be about bringing everybody in the party together, not driving people away. And, you know, of those who are welcome to this event are our five Michigan Democratic Party members who have been charged federally with having made threats and having harassed and vandalized the homes of some members of our party, Democratic electeds, and Jewish senators as well. So, you know, it's been a little bit scary. And I think we really need to make sure that everybody feels welcome at these events and they're not turned off because they think that people are going to be screaming at them, shouting at them and chasing after them at the convention hall.

1:01:51So a few days ago, my colleague Caitlin Collins asked Democratic Senate nominee Abdul El-Sayed about this issue and the concerns you've raised. Here's what he said. I happen to remember the nominating convention in 2018 when then Attorney General nominee Dana Nessel asked me to read her nomination officially into the books. So she felt perfectly safe with us there. I think it's important that all of us feel safe, and Jewish safety to me is a priority, just like the safety of my own daughters. But I do think it's important for us to differentiate between safety and between our different political positions about the interests of a foreign government.

1:02:32And I do think that it's unfortunate when people mix those issues. I think there is a challenge when folks try to use the specter of anti-Semitism to extend toward protecting a foreign government against criticism, and And I think that's the place that the attorney general and I might disagree. What's your response to that? Well, I think it's unfortunate. You know, I started the first hate crimes and domestic terrorism unit ever at a state AG's office. And we prosecute people who threaten the lives of elected officials. And we don't ask them what their beliefs are or what their political makeup is.

1:03:10Threatening people is wrong. harassing people is wrong and terrorizing people is wrong. And when we can, we investigate and we prosecute those cases to say that basically like perhaps I, you know, deserve to be threatened simply because of my political beliefs, I think is a real missed opportunity for Abdul to bring the party together. And I hope that's what we're going to be able to do. But a lot of it involves, you know, reaching out to those who supported his opponent, Haley Stevens, in the primary and saying, hey, here's why you ought to support me. And honestly, you know, we have to flip the Senate.

1:03:53There's no question we need a Democratic Senate. You know, Mike Rogers, who's his opponent, first of all, horrifically Islamophobic, this campaign already. So, you know, we should all be fighting back against that for certain. But we know that Mike Rogers is simply going to be a rubber stamp for the most corrupt administration in American history. We know that there are Supreme Court seats that might be up. We know that while Abdul stands for Medicare for all, I don't even know that Mike Rogers supports Medicare for anyone. So, I mean, there are really important components that, you know, create an environment that we have to, have to, have to make sure that we have unity in our party.

1:04:38But the way to do that is to make everyone feel safe and everyone feel welcome. Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, Democrat, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez sharing on social media that she's freezing her eggs. And she's starting a larger conversation about the cost of and access to fertility care. That's next.

1:05:06In our health lead, Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, otherwise known as AOC, is freezing her eggs and sharing the experience online. She acknowledged her vulnerability might come with a cost. I am also aware that there is very strangely a political quote unquote risk or even a political tax that could come with sharing this information. In that Instagram live, she said she'd have to do her next shot before her Sunday interview on ABC. And it was there that she was asked if she's running for president in 2028. I mean, I'm focused on winning the midterms. I'm running for Congress right now.

1:05:54The possibility for you? I haven't, well, I haven't ruled out the possibility. Joining us now, Dr. Veronica Gillespie-Bell. She's an OBGYN. Doc, thanks for joining us. Explain to our viewers the difference between freezing eggs, freezing embryos, and the full IVF process, and why somebody might choose one over the other. Yeah, so thank you for having me. So when we freeze eggs, we're giving women medications to help their eggs mature. We're retrieving those eggs and we're freezing them so that they have the option for fertility later in life. When we're talking about embryos and embryo transfer, that's when we actually fertilize the egg with the sperm, create the embryo, and we're putting that embryo back.

1:06:39For egg freezing, it's super important that women know that this is an option. For women, we are born with all of the eggs that we will ever have. And we start to decrease the quality and the number of eggs in our mid-30s. And when that happens, that really prohibits our ability to have fertility later in life. So when we freeze our eggs, we have them preserved. So whenever we decide to bear children, many women are waiting to bear children because they are developing their careers or they just haven't found the right person or whatever the reason may be. And so when we freeze those eggs, it gives us the option for having fertility later in life.

1:07:18Is it between freezing eggs and freezing embryos, is one more likely to result in a child than another? So embryo are more likely to result in a child, although in both situations, there's no guarantee. But again, with egg freezing, we have those eggs frozen, usually for women that are waiting to bear children later in life. And so waiting for that time of meeting the right person or just waiting because they're developing their career. So AOC is, I believe, 36. Age always seems to factor into these conversations. We've heard the term geriatric present pregnancy, which describes women 35 and older.

1:08:02That's not my term. I want to make sure everybody knows that people use it in the medical community. Now it's referred to as advanced maternal age. How do you counsel patients approaching that age who want kids? Is there a time when frozen embryos or frozen eggs doesn't matter anymore because you're just too old to have the child? So first of all, any patient that comes in my office and they're in that 30-year-old age, I ask them, when are you planning on having children? If they tell me it's not within a year or so, then we talk about egg freezing so that they do have that opportunity to have children later in life.

1:08:41I think it's important to know that as women get older, if they have eggs frozen, that pregnancy will really be at the age of whenever those eggs were frozen. For example, if a patient is 47, 48 years old and they froze their eggs in their mid-30s, then it will be, quote unquote, like a 30-year-old pregnancy. Of course, as we get older, we have to worry about complications of pregnancy, comorbidities, meaning having medical conditions like chronic hypertension, diabetes. Those things do increase with age. But with proper management, there is no reason that women that are over 35 cannot have a safe pregnancy.

1:09:21Dr. Veronica Gillespie-Bell, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. Thank you. The deadline has passed for Ohio Republican Congressman Max Miller to get out of the race. So what does that mean for the midterm map? Our panel will weigh in.

1:09:41And our politics lead, despite increasing calls from Republicans to step aside, Ohio Republican Congressman Max Miller is not going anywhere. He's going to remain on the ballot after that key deadline passed over the weekend. Miller is facing serious abuse allegations from his wife and also his wife alleges that he may have emotionally and physically abused her daughter, ex-wife, we should say. The congressman denies all of it. Here's Republican Senator Jim Banks of Indiana yesterday on NBC. see. The allegations against him are are terrible. And if he's he's he's endangering a seat in Congress as we're as we're trying to keep the majority in the House and and he should he should drop out if he's endangering that seat.

1:10:23He should drop out because of the allegations against him. Let's jump in with the panel. Ramesh, thanks for joining us. Miller could still withdraw from the race, but Republicans will be left without a nominee now that the deadline to replace him has passed. What do you think he should do? Well, I think that he should resign, obviously. But, you know, this is somebody who is obviously very used to putting himself before the interests of everybody else. He's already done it with his family. Of course, he's going to do it with the Republican Party. Yeah. Amicia, Miller is set to face Democrat Brian Poindexter in the general election.

1:10:56We should keep in mind, this is a generally considered reliable Republican seat. But, you know, it's a midterm election and people don't like what's going on with Miller. Here is what Poindexter has to say. I didn't get into this race because Max Miller's personal life is in shambles. I got into this race because working families' lives are turned upside down by the policies that this administration and Max Miller have supported. Trump won by 11 points. And does Poindexter actually have a chance here, do you think? I think he does, at least to be competitive. If these Max Miller allegations had not come out, if there weren't multitudes of women and people who had them over the course of time, we'd be in a different place.

1:11:41And he's been incalcitrant. Somebody who has said, even on your show, he has compared himself and what he feels is a persecution to that of Donald Trump. One of the things that Donald Trump never had was a double-digit drop. What we're seeing here is something entirely different. And I do think that it makes the Democrat who normally probably wouldn't stand a chance in an area like that, someone who is more competitive. Go ahead. It adds to the echoes of the 2006 election. You've got an unpopular war back then, Iraq, now Iran. You've got an unpopular president, George W. Bush, now Donald Trump.

1:12:12And you've got an issue environment that's very anti-Republican. Add to the mix all of these stories of corruption and personal scandal involving congressmen. And back then, the House flipped. it's looking like it's going to be that way again. Mark Foley was one of them. That's right. There was a bunch. Amisha, let's turn to some of the big Senate races. The Senate Majority Pack, a Democrat-aligned group. Is that with this ad attacking Republican? Senate nominee in Michigan, Mike Rogers. Take a look. Introducing Endless War from Mike Rogers. Boy, it's really hard when you have to justify every minute of the war, I think, for the president.

1:12:51Side effects may include death, economic hardship, and global instability. Some patients have reported fuel shortages, which may cause inflation. Endless war has not been proven to make Americans any safer. Ask your doctor if endless war is right for you. Kind of a whack at the fact that Mike Rogers is a little older than Abdul El-Sayed as well. Do you think that's an effective ad? I think it is. I think it's an effective ad coupled with what we've seen come out from the El-Sayed campaign, the campaign with his grandparents, that ad. The ad with, you know, the with the ball song in the background.

1:13:24There's a lot of there there. That ad in particular points to the very things that his voters and I would argue voters across the country are very upset with when it comes to this war and the billions of dollars and multibillions that they've seen spent on it. Still with no real reason for us to be there. And also many people questioning when we're going to get out. in addition to facing a backdrop of, you know, health care lapses with the changes that we've seen from the Big Beautiful Bill Act, with housing prices increasing, with not being able to afford food for their kids, housing issues. I think that it can be very effective.

1:13:53So there's also this big race in Wisconsin for governor and the likely Democratic nominee. We'll find out tomorrow. Seems to be a woman named Francesca Hong. AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a congresswoman from New York, was on ABC and was asked about the fact that Francesca Hong had a number of, shall we say, woke statements on her social media from years past. Here was AOC's response. It was kind of interesting. Take a listen. My understanding is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her electorate. Yeah, she's moved away from a lot of that. Right, she's moved away from it.

1:14:33And I have a local city councilman that has this saying, woke one was crazy. Woke one was crazy. I'm sure you would agree with that. But what do you make of this kind of acknowledgement by AOC there, a very leading voice of the progressive movement, that some of the stuff that was said in the 2018 to 2024 area was a little out there? Well, she was pretty woke herself during that period. And that construction that woke was pretty crazy makes it sound like wokeism was just something that sort of washed over us when there were actually identifiable people, including her, who sort of perpetrated it and inflicted it on institutions and the country.

1:15:17Look, it's fine to change your mind. I do think you owe people an account of why you changed your mind, when you changed your mind. Hong hasn't done that. And in this clip, neither did AOC. I don't think that she needed to. The fact of the matter is when the push for defund the police, that narrative was running, it was also being accepted by a lot of people because they literally just saw a man die on live television at the hands of the police. This was a conversation about George Floyd. This is what kicked it off. This is what kicked off all the BLM protests. At the time, it made sense to a lot of people, specifically in the activist movement, who were very frustrated at police brutality that they kept seeing over and over and over again, and so many black people becoming hashtags across social media, but no change actually happening.

1:15:57It drove a lot of the license to actually ensure that there were body cams, to ensure that there were policies put in place to avoid some of this or mitigate some of this. With that being said, I do think that over time, people in their movement shift towards what matters today. Hey, 2020 was six years ago. At this point, people are crying out about their cost of living. They're crying out about affordability. Police brutality, though it is still important and still happening across multiple areas in the country, that is not the top line item because we're not seeing across our screens every day live footage of a police officer killing a man.

1:16:29You know, 2020 was six years ago. The 2020 election was six years ago. President Trump's denial of what happened is still a live issue in our politics and should be. I don't think we should consign this to the ancient past. And I don't think there are any circumstances in which being a prison abolitionist or being a defunder of the police is a good reflection on somebody's judgment. I'm Isha Cross and Ramesh Panuru. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Coming up next, we're going to talk with the stunt performer who doubled for Matt Damon in the box office smash The Odyssey. Damon called her arms the greatest he's ever seen.

1:17:01Now, you heard me right. Her arms. Stick with us.

1:17:10so my double was a woman a female stunt performer who had the greatest arms i've ever seen in our pop culture league that's matt damon on josh harwitz's show happy sad confused giving credit to his stunt double for her heroic lift in christopher nolan's new blockbuster the odyssey Nolan is known for his approach to cinematic realism, and he cast the four-foot-six stuntwoman in a scene where Damon fights seven-foot man-eating giants. And we're pleased to welcome Devin Dalton to the lead. Devin, congratulations. So I reached out to Matt Damon. He said, quote, Devin is so great. She did such great work in the film.

1:17:49Please give her my best. And I also said to him, what should I ask her? He said, ask about her arm workout for all our sakes. Okay, so how did you get the greatest arms Matt Damon has ever seen?

1:18:05Well, you know, I was already ready to go when I got the call, but I definitely was doing a lot of pull-ups, a lot of push-ups. I love bodyweight stuff because I think it's just amazing. And definitely working in bicep workouts about three times a week just to get that extra growth. I really wanted to impress Matt. So I'm so happy that he's thrilled. And I definitely send my love back. But yeah, I put in a lot of hard work for sure. I took the role very seriously. So definitely was hitting like, you know, upper body work at least three times a week. This is your first role stunt doubling for a male character.

1:18:49Did that change in any way how you prepared for the film? Because you had to study not only Matt Damon's movements, but also his character.

1:19:00Yeah, absolutely. I always try and do as much research as I can on the character and the story. Obviously, I wanted to make sure that my movements were going to be very strong and sharp and clean and have a very strong presence. So I really focused on just like, you know, moving in that way and embracing so I could tell the story through my movement because ultimately, you know, it's my job to make sure that the character is portrayed on screen and that audiences don't know that it's me. I want them to obviously think that it is Matt, it is Odysseus. So I was really working on my sword fighting skills and just being very strong.

1:19:39What else did you have to do to your physical appearance? Because Matt obviously has this big, ugly beard in the movie. Did you have to glue a beard on? What else did you have to do? No, he's not. I did. I did. That's always a fun part for me. I love, it's so amazing with costumes and hair and makeup, how they are able to transform you. And, you know, I really was an Odysseus mini-me. So it was quite amazing. I had the beard, I had the wig, you know. Once I had the armor on and had my shield and my sword, I just, I felt like a gladiator. So it also helps you perform because you really do feel and look like the character.

1:20:23A lot of people might not. Beard was a little itchy, I will say, but. But his was real, right? Yours was fake. Yes, of course. Yes, I cannot grow a beard. Yeah. No, I knew yours was fake. I just didn't know if his was real or fake. I thought it was real. A lot of people might not know that they've already seen your work, but you have been in several blockbuster films and hit TV shows. You've been in Weapons. You were in The Last of Us. Do you think stunt doubles get enough recognition for making actors look as cool as you guys do? You know, I think that it's so exciting that Stunts is getting a lot more recognition.

1:21:05Part of the job is being a little bit behind the scenes, so you do expect that a bit as a performer. Like I said, if the audience doesn't know you're there, then you've kind of done your job right as a stunt double. But I do believe that it's really important to give recognition and give credit when it's due. I think stunts, I know stunts has been contributing to film for so long. They're such a crucial part of the filmmaking process and telling the story through the action. And it's so exciting for audiences. So, yeah, I'm really excited that the world is excited about stunts, for them to understand the process more.

1:21:38And absolutely for myself and my fellow stuntmates all around the world to get some recognition and be recognized on a much larger scale is definitely rewarding and long overdue. Well, we're glad to give you some recognition here. You were amazing in the movie. Kevin Dalton, thank you so much. Thank you. And you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram threads, Blue Sky Accent on the TikTok at Jake Tapper. You can follow the show on Accent, Instagram at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can watch the show on the CNN app. Aaron Burnett out front starts now.

1:22:36out there, Elvis, worked as a journalist and model before she died unexpectedly. Parental death feels in the natural order of things. You lose a child, it not only upends the universe and your universe, but it was a grief with a capital G. There are those who are in grief, and the rest of humanity I now call pre-grief, because it's coming. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.