FCC Chair Credits Local TV Stations For Kimmel Suspension

23:38Rizzo doesn't think it will impact business if this hangar is suddenly in a red district, but it does impact his top political priority. Rizzo's nine-year-old niece, Jackie, was among the students gunned down in Uvalde. The Republican whose district will pick up Pflugerville does not share Rizzo's views on gun safety legislation. These politicians are afraid to go against their party, even when it involves something to prevent a child from dying in the school. Gretchen Pruitt is also angry at being moved. She likes her wine red, but her politics blue. When I was in public service in the government, I could not speak out, but I'm now retired and unmuzzled.

24:18And so I have a voice and I'm going to use it. Pruitt is a retired library director. She has studied the new map lines, understands the math, promises to keep fighting, even if she can't stop the Republicans in 2026. Is it about Texas or is it more about President Trump? I do believe it's about President Trump. There was no talk of this until the president suggested it. Phil, you mentioned at the top other states are doing this as well. Missouri just did it, probably pick up one Republican seat. Indiana may do it by the end of the year, early next year. Several other states. It's what angers Democrats in Texas is Trump won with 56 percent of the vote.

24:53Greg Abbott won re-election two years before that with 55 percent of the vote. If this plan succeeds, Republicans will have 80 percent of the House districts in Texas. So Democrats say we get it. To the victor go the spoils. They view this as disproportionate. But Governor Abbott and President Trump say we won. We have the power. Too bad. Can I ask you about Indiana? Just broaden it out a little bit. You mentioned Indiana. They might do it. There has been kind of a slow evolution of Indiana Republicans being like, no, we're not. No, definitely not. Okay. maybe we might have to because of this.

25:21Listen to what Governor Mike Braun said.

25:26I think the Trump administration for what it's trying to do, if you're not kind of getting involved as well as you can on the political side, you probably are not going to be the first call when it comes to the benefits of just like we're one of five states now that as the Agriculture Department moves its bureaucracy into the interior. That's a polite way of saying the administration says you will not get aid. We will not take your phone calls. We may primary your members if you don't do what we want. And so you mentioned they were initially very reluctant. There are still traditional conservatives out there who say we'll do this right after the census, but then we're not going to do it again or we're not going to do it every two years.

26:15We're not going to do every five years. That was the initial reaction. Maybe we'll look at this after the next census. But the administration has been relentless in pushing these red states. If you can do it, do it. And there's sort of an implicit or else. That's what the governor was getting at. Your sister is a state of the legislature there. From a Democrat perspective, I mean, we talked to a bunch of them in lead up and you're just kind of like, I mean, we can't actually do anything here.

26:41Jake Tapper:Yeah, they're powerless. I mean, we were just talking about how, John and I were just talking about how Texas Democrats used to, about 30 years ago, we had a governor. That was the last time we had a statewide office in Texas. It is largely believed that because of the demographics in Texas and the large Latino population and the growing Latino population, that Texas could eventually turn blue. And Republicans see that. And that is why they have taken the actions that they have. The reality is what's happening here is that this is not partisan gerrymandering. This is racial gerrymandering. And what's happening in these districts, and I saw that you talked to Latino voters in particular, is these Latino voters elected Latino representatives to represent them in places like Austin and Houston and South Texas, where it's like about 90 percent Latino.

27:30Jake Tapper:Now, because of these redistricting efforts, you no longer have Latinos, or you will not after the election have Latinos representing the Latino community. And that is a problem. And people are angry about it in Texas. Whether or not that translates to votes, I think that's a different story. And I think Republicans are also banking that Latinos are going to vote for them because they voted for Trump in the last election. But that's not the case anymore. His approval rating with Latinos is going down. Can I ask you, again, trying to broaden it out a little bit, what we heard Governor Braun say, the White House's ability, not unlike what we're seeing right now with an FCC chair who can allude to some things, claim he's not alluding to some things, and then get immediate results.

28:12Like, this White House has utilized the threat of government or the threat of their political power to bring people in line on things that they don't necessarily want to do and aren't necessarily where Republicans would have been prior. But the party moves in their direction. Perhaps. I think when humans are in control of gerrymandering or drawing districts, you're going to get gerrymandering. That's just part and parcel to the human element of it. I think if you look at states, and this has been done already, if you look at states with proportionality of one party vote in a presidential compared to congressional seats that they represent, blue states lead the way.

28:48Look at our home state of Massachusetts, right? Always consistently in the mid-30s, there is not one out of the nine congressional seats that even sniffs competitiveness. In fact, I think one of the worst gerrymandered seats is Massachusetts 4th District. It horrifically gerrymandered. So look, I think that it is a two-party problem. Democrats have it as well. Republicans are just recognizing it and acting on it. The idea, I was trying to thread it together, and then you had like an encyclopedic knowledge of Massachusetts districts. He's right. He's right. I know you're right, but I wanted to ask you about kind of their, the Trump team's ability, as we've seen in the last 24 hours with the Jimmy Kimmel.

29:31situation. Like using that authority or the threat of that authority, which has been a through line of the last seven or eight months. What's your response to what's happened there with an FCC chairman? With the Kimmel portion? Well, first of all, let's just pull back. So Jake did a great thing on his Instagram and Twitter where he broke down that Nexstar wants to buy another company, which would put them over the threshold to own more stations across the nation than is currently allowed by federal law, right? Jimmy Kimmel makes$15 to$16 million. Dave Portnoy said this great. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

30:07He has lost 42 % of his viewership since Donald Trump came into office. It's a shrinking market, no doubt, but he's poured gasoline on that fire. So for their company, is it worth the squeeze to keep poking the bear? Johnny Carson once told Mike Wallace in the 70s on 60 Minutes that he didn't understand why late night comics even got into political comedy. He didn't see the need for it. He said, I work for a business. Why would that business want me out there trashing half the country? You're seeing that play out now. It's the free market at work. No, it's the free market at work with a nudge, though.

30:42The chairman saying we can do this the hard way or the easy way. That's essentially what President Trump or his political operation is telling Governor Braun. It's the same thing. We can do this the hard way or the easy way. So you're using the powers of government to nudge the marketplace. Real quick.

30:56Jake Tapper:Yeah, and I agree. And I think that this is the difference between Trump one and Trump two. Trump one felt like he did not he did not use his powers. Now he's using them. Yeah, it's been remarkable to watch district breakdowns, quoting Tapper and Portnoy. We're covering our bases here, man. You've done it all. You've done it all. Thank you guys very much. J.K. Greenpeace, as always. Well, breaking details just in about RFK Jr.'s new CDC advisory panel. What we're learning about delayed votes on key vaccines that could impact your family's health.

31:32breaking news in our health lead just moments ago a group of advisors handpicked by health and human services secretary rfk jr postponing a series of votes on vaccine recommendations that could impact your children cn's meg terrell is at a cdc site in atlanta meg what happened here Yeah, Phil, well, this day just went really, really long. So essentially a planned vote on the hepatitis B vaccine universal dose that's given to newborns. That is the current recommendation of the CDC. They are suggesting a recommendation to change that to essentially test all pregnant women for hepatitis B and for moms who are found to be negative for the virus to delay that first dose until the baby's at least one month of age and still allow for the option to get the vaccine earlier if parents and doctors decide that's the right thing to do.

32:25So that vote was scheduled for tonight, but because this has gone so late and you can see folks are now filing out of this meeting, which just wrapped up, that vote is now going to be tomorrow morning, Phil. Okay, so important context. I don't want to make it sound like there was some shift in plans, just a very long day, which is why we appreciate Meg hanging out with us. What did they vote on today? Yeah, so they also did take a vote on the measles, mumps, rubella and varicella, which is chickenpox combination vaccine. And what they ended up doing is changing the recommendation so that kids under the age of four, they say, should not get the combination vaccine.

33:03They should get the MMR vaccine and then separately the chickenpox vaccine for under the age of four. And that's because there is a small but slightly elevated risk of febrile seizures or seizures after fever for kids if they get that combination vaccine at the age of about one. And so that does change the recommendation for that vaccine. And there were some experts here who argued that that takes away parent choice. But that is a change. And in terms of the hepatitis B vaccine, there's a lot of debate about that, too, as well, Phil. And so we're going to see how that vote goes tomorrow. Yeah, the vote.

33:37I think there's other things on the agenda that are important as well. Meg Terrell, great reporting as always. My friend from the CDC in Atlanta, thanks so much. I want to bring in now Dr. Deborah Burke. She served as White House COVID response coordinator in President Trump's first term. Dr. Burke, really appreciate your time. Just to kind of start with the run-through that Meg gave in terms of when it comes to the recommendations related to MMRV vaccines, how do you view what's happening right now? So I think what they're saying is we're using the science and the data to find these rare instances of this difficulty with the combination vaccine.

34:13Now, remember, MMR is already a combination vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. And they're saying, let's separate them. Let's go back to where we were several years ago and separate those vaccines to ensure that no child has that rare reaction. With the hepatitis vaccine, I'm really thrilled that they're focusing on the moms. We're not paying enough attention to the moms. We don't want any mom to have hepatitis and go on treatment, untreated. And there's now treatment for mothers in the third tri-semester. So public health should be both the mommies and the babies and potentially the partners.

34:50So let's make public health what it's supposed to be and comprehensive. And as a father and a husband who has been watching over the course of the last couple of months, and to be honest, a mixture of concern, but also not totally sure what I'm supposed to think about the CDC vaccine advisors who are handpicked by the Health and Human Services Secretary. They're taking a look at COVID-19 vaccine recommendations. What's your sense of the direction of that right now? Well, you know, I think we haven't presented the data well. Most of the European countries stopped vaccinating children under five for COVID in 2021.

35:28And we haven't even talked about that. So to your listeners, go to the Green Book, COVID-19 UK, and you'll see well laid out the data and why they made the decisions to stop vaccinating children under five. It was very well laid out. It's clear that children are not at the same risk as they were before. And they tested children. So they actually did the science and the data, got antibody titers on their children in kindergarten and found out that they majority 95 % plus already had antibodies. So it's using science and data to be practical. And that's what I hope that we're doing. I understand the birth, Joe, a lot of that was about us failing to identify the moms that are that have hepatitis.

36:10Let's make sure that we're concerned about the moms and the babies and the dads. What about folks that are older, the idea of recommending moving COVID-19 shots from 65 years old to age 75. Yeah. So if you go to that same green book, they lay out every tier. And so their top tier for immunization is people over 85 and then 75 and then over 65. And I think what got lost in the shuffle of the mandates is we ended up not being successful in immunizing the most at-risk populations and that hurts me from a public health standpoint. That's the group we should have concentrated on those with underlying conditions and those over 65.

36:56Please look at the green book. It's laid out so well and I don't know why we don't put out information like that. It would really reassure the public and establish more trust. It's a really great point. Dr. Deborah Birx, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, we're staying in the health lead and paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta on the kissing bug disease. He's answering viewer questions, and I have some next.

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37:57In our health, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back to answer your questions about a new kissing disease that's spreading across the country. Sanjay, you told us all about this on Tuesday. Now, Deidre wants to know, what's the treatment for the kissing bug disease? Yeah, so keeping, first of all, so many questions about this. It's amazing how some things just sort of enter the consciousness, but it's a parasitic disease. So this is different than bacteria, different than viruses. So you want to use an antiparasitic. And it turns out there are a couple that are really effective. A couple caveats. You've got to be diagnosed early with this.

38:36So if you're suspicious that you might dealing with Chagas disease, you've been bit, you're having symptoms, get tested early. It's a blood test. If it comes back positive, you can try one of these antiparasitics. Phil, it's a commitment. It's 60 days of treatment. So, you know, pretty significant amount of time. It's not cheap, hundreds of dollars for that treatment, but it is very effective. So, you know, if you can get it detected early, you can get it treated early. The next question is from Fatima in Miami, wants to know, can it affect pets? Also, would mosquito repellent help in keeping them from biting?

39:12Yeah, so it can affect pets, and this is really interesting. It can affect animals, and that's usually one of the first signs that this particular disease, this kissing bug disease, Chagas, is entering an area. And again, there are certain places now in the United States where you're seeing significant numbers of human infections being contracted in the United States. Previously, a lot of the patients who had chagas in the United States, they were imported, meaning they got infected somewhere else and then came back to the United States. But it can affect cats and dogs. Cats tend to be more carriers, so carry the parasite without necessarily getting sick.

39:48But dogs, they can get quite sick from this, just like humans can. They can develop lethargy. If untreated, it can affect their hearts and their GI system. But just like humans, they can be tested and they can potentially be treated as well. As far as I think the second question about mosquito repellent, again, not so effective. These are not mosquitoes. These are these kissing bugs. It's the type of bug that carries this parasite. So DEET might have some benefit to actually controlling it, but not much. Last one, Stacey from Little Rock asks, will these bugs go away when colder weather arrives?

40:23Also, what are some of the early symptoms?

40:28Okay, so with regard to the first question, some good news there. Yes, part of the reason we're seeing this in the United States is because overall the temperatures have become warmer. So what were previously quote-unquote tropical diseases have migrated to the north. You can see on the map there, mostly the southern states. But as the weather gets cooler, the incidents will go down. In fact, they say when it gets around 62 degrees or so, low 60s, transmission almost drops down to zero. Now, as far as early symptoms, it can be a little bit hard to tell sometimes. I mean, fever, for example, rash, headaches, things like that.

41:06These are somewhat vague symptoms, but eyelid swelling. You may remember, Phil, when we talked about this before, it's a parasite that gets into the skin. It's usually starting on the face. So take a look at that eyelid there, that's swelling. It's called Ramona sign. And that's very characteristic of Chagas disease. Again, something we see a lot in rural Mexico, Central America, South America. But if you see that in the United States, that's the parasite that you're probably dealing with. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, always appreciate you, man. Thank you.

41:38Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump is heading home from London, making news in the air, threatening any network station that criticizes him could lose its license. All as the FCC chairman just said on Fox, comedian Jimmy Kimmel is not the last shoe to drop. Also, former U.S. attorney Alex Acosta under the spotlight. House Oversight Committee members are gearing up to grill the man who approved the sweetheart deal for pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. And superstar Dave Matthews tells us how his song at the Farm Aid concert provide a voice for farmers around the country who could lose their land.

42:21The lead tonight, the Trump administration's attacks on the free press, reaching new altitudes today after pressure from the FCC chairman to yank late-night comedian Jimmy Kimmel's show off the air. And here's the president on Air Force One. I read someplace that the networks were 97 % against me. I get 97 % negative, and yet I won it easily. I won all seven swing states, popular, but won everything. And if they're 97 % against, they give me wholly bad publicity or press. I mean, if they're getting a license, I would think maybe their license should be taken away. Just moments ago, FCC Chairman Brendan Carr said there's more to come.

43:10I don't think this is the last shoe to drop. This is a massive shift that's taking place in the media ecosystem. I think the consequences are going to continue to flow. CNN's Caitlin Collins is live near Windsor Castle. And Caitlin, this wasn't what the purpose of the trip, the reason why you're in London was supposed to be about. Do we have any idea what's happening next here? No, it wasn't supposed to be about this, Phil, but obviously all of this was quickly overtaken after it was just about 24 hours ago when we heard from ABC that they were indefinitely suspending Jimmy Kimmel from his program, something that President Trump was actually spending last night here in Windsor Castle.

43:46He was posting well past 1 a.m. about Kimmel's indefinite suspension and cheerleading it, basically declaring victory. And so there was this press conference today where there was a highly anticipated moment where we wanted to see what exactly the president was going to say about Kimmel being ousted from the airwaves because of comments that he made about President Trump and Charlie Kirk. And so in that press conference, though, Phil, he was only talking about Jimmy Kimmel's ratings. He made no mention of his FCC chair, Brendan Carr, who had put an intense amount of pressure on ABC and on Disney to rethink its programming changes essentially in the hours before Jimmy Kimmel was taken off the air.

44:24But you heard those comments there on Air Force One as the president is making his way back to Washington. And he also said at one point, Phil, that he basically believes broadcasters and that regulators should consider taking broadcasters' licenses away if they have late night hosts on their programs who criticize him. Listen to what he told reporters just a few moments ago. When you have a network and you have evening shows and all they do is hit Trump, that's all they do. If you go back, I guess they haven't had a conservative vote in years or something. Somebody said, but when you go back and take a look, all they do is hit Trump.

45:04They're licensed. They're not allowed to do that. That comment there at the end is what stood out to me. He said they're not allowed to do that. Talking about them criticizing Trump and basically saying that is the number one offense in his mind, Phil. Now, keep in mind, this is a Republican president who came into office and he has signed many executive orders since taking office. But on his first day in office, he signed an executive order about restoring free speech and banning government censorship. He has since touted that executive order. But today we saw him praising Brendan Carr, who, as you just noted there, is basically saying this is not the end of the work that he is going to do.

45:44Obviously, these companies do have an option, as our legal experts have noted, to fight this. But ABC clearly is not fighting this. They went ahead and ousted him from the airwaves for the time being. And so what is the president is making clear, Phil, is that this is his viewpoint, that late night hosts on these networks that have these licenses should not be able to criticize him or otherwise they are at risk of losing their license. He is saying it very clearly what he believes that standard is, Phil. Caitlin Collins, thank you. And I am very sure you're working on new reporting for her new show, for her show, not her new show.

46:17There's just a lot of Nunes happening right here. The source with Caitlin Collins. Be great reporting as it always is. Look for that tonight at 9 Eastern on CNN. Well, joining me now is Democratic Senator Angela also Brooks of Maryland. Senator, it seems like two years ago now that I was watching you at the hearing with the CDC officials. That's just how fast things are moving. I want to get to that in a moment. But to start with the kind of big news we've all been talking about, Senator Majority Leader John Thune said, much like we've heard from the president during the press conference and Brendan Carr earlier today with our colleague Scott Jennings, that this was a market decision.

46:51This was not a regulatory or a government decision. What do you make of that? Well, you know what? I think what we are experiencing right now is literally a five-alarm fire in our country. The United States of America has the strongest free speech rights in the world through our First Amendment. And if it becomes the case that the government can restrict expression in the way that we've heard the president say that if you criticize the president, that the network can lose its licenses, we cease to be the United States of America. This is a very, very dangerous precedent. It is something that all of us should feel alarmed about.

47:28The First Amendment is what undergirds us as Americans. And again, it makes us a leader around the world. And we are now experiencing a five alarm fire if this is allowed to stand. I think one of the questions that I've had is, Brennan Carr hasn't actually done anything. He said it, and he very clearly believes he can do things. And the way the law is written, there are actions he can take. But this is just a kind of verbal threat at this point, is it not? It is a threat, and they've already acted on the threat. That's the reason Jimmy Kimmel is no longer on television. And the administration doubled down on it by saying, of course, if you criticize me, you should lose your license.

48:09And again, And this is an issue regarding free speech, which is a basic guarantee of every single American, is that you have the right to criticize the government. It is free expression, and it should be protected speech. And it is, again, what makes us Americans. So this is a very, very dangerous precedent. It is one that we should all reject out of hand. You don't have to like what is said. We have a right to have the expression and to criticize the government is a right of every citizen. It also strikes me as the latest in a very long and running list of executive authority related actions that have been taken, threats, implicit or explicit, that we've seen over the course of the last seven or eight months that lawmakers like yourself either can't or don't have the capability to respond to.

48:58What are Democrats saying kind of inside the caucus meetings right now in the wake of this? Well, you know what? Everyone, by the way, we all have the opportunity and the obligation to speak against it. I know you said a moment ago that we can't. We have an obligation on both sides of the aisle. We all represent the American people. This issue, by the way, is not a partisan issue. The First Amendment applies to all of us. And what we are saying in our caucus, I'm sure, is what is privately being said as well in the Republican caucus, and is that people feel concerned about this. And we need to move beyond feeling concerned and, again, recognize what our higher obligation is.

49:36It is to the people who sent us here to protect their rights, their liberties, and to protect their way of life. And criticizing the government is fundamental to the rights of Americans. And, again, it is a right that makes us different from the rest of the world, and we have to protect it. Yeah, and you pointed out, but just for clarity, by can't I meant 60 votes needed on one side or 218 in a House Republican conference that isn't going to do that at this point, not that you're incapable of doing it. I do want to get over to the hearing from earlier this week. You're on the committee, questioned, ousted CDC Director Susan Menares yesterday.

50:10Earlier this month, you told CNN you were urging your Republican colleagues to do more than just raise concerns about RFK Jr. shakeup at the CDC. What is your sense of where Republicans are on this right now? DR. Well, you know what? I think that there are concerns expressed on both sides of the aisle. I think that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle can see very clearly the damage that has been done. And you know what? Dr. Menares is a Republican. She's a person that the who was confirmed a little over a month ago and was said to have unimpeachable credentials. And she was a person who was put forward as a person who had the background and the integrity and credentials to lead us at the CDC.

50:50And then 30 days later, because she disagreed with the Secretary of Health and Human Services, she's now been removed and replaced, I would venture, with a venture capitalist and with other individuals who believe in pseudoscience. And we see now what Dr. Minari said we are facing as a country where we'll see a resurgence of measles, hepatitis, polio. These diseases that will kill, will not only make sick, but will kill our children if we don't adhere to the vaccine schedules and to the science, if we don't stick to the science. The president said that there's no dispute. Vaccines, there's no controversy there because they work.

51:30And Dr. Menares has said as much as well. And having her fired for not agreeing, sight unseen, with a vaccine panel made up of people who are anti-vaccine was the wrong decision. It will make us sicker and people will die as a result of that decision. Yeah. You make a very important point about what some Republicans, particularly in the Senate, say privately versus what maybe we may have seen at the hearing. Senator Angela Alstubrooks, I really appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, new video just in showing protests right now outside Disney headquarters in New York and at Disney Studio in Burbank, California.

52:08We're also hearing from other comedians lining up to defend Jimmy Kimmel. We'll play what legendary late night host David Letterman just said. Stay with us.

52:22We all see where this is going, correct? It's managed media and it's no good. It's silly. It's ridiculous. and you can't go around firing somebody because you're fearful or trying to suck up to an authoritarian criminal administration in the Oval Office. That, of course, the one, the only David Letterman weighing in on the Jimmy Kimmel suspension. Let's get straight to CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister in L.A. Elizabeth, you have brand new details on what's happening at ABC. What do you know. Yes, Phil. So this is a really messy and quite frankly, untenable situation right now at ABC. What I am hearing from sources is that they are very hopeful that they can figure out a path forward and figure out how they can bring Jimmy Kimmel's show back.

53:14All of the executives at Disney and ABC, they love Jimmy. They adore him. But with the threats from Brendan Carr that he made yesterday with station groups dropping them. The executives just felt like they had no choice. I am hearing that ABC executives feel like this is bigger than Jimmy Kimmel. This impacts the entire organization. I am hearing that employees at ABC, at Jimmy's show, are getting threats, that they are being doxxed, that this is now a safety issue for the entire organization. And that is what is under consideration. Now here is what I heard went down, Phil. I heard that the decision was ultimately made by Bob Iger and Dana Walden.

53:58I hear that Dana Walden was the one who picked up the phone and called Jimmy Kimmel herself. They have a very good relationship. I hear that it was a cordial phone call, but that it was a heavy phone call and that she said that we want to figure out a way to bring you back and we have to figure out how to move forward together. But Jimmy wanted to go on his show last night, and in his monologue, I hear that he wanted to address the backlash from the right regarding his commentary about Charlie Kirk's charged killer. And I hear that that monologue was very hot. It very much took aim at MAGA, and that is when the executives said, we can't have him go on the air tonight.

54:38Now, I want to read you one quote from a source, Phil. They said, quote, if Jimmy went on the air, there would have been no way back from that monologue for Jimmy. We didn't want that. Everyone deeply values him and wants him to come back, but he has to take down the temperature. So again, they are dealing with serious threats, station groups pulling the show across the country, and they want him to come back, but they are going to have to figure that out. Now, I do want to note that ABC did not respond to me about my reporting and that Jimmy Kimmel also has not yet spoken out. I have reached out to his team, have not heard back yet.

55:12We are in a very different world right now. Great reporting, as always, my friend. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much. Well, up ahead, President Trump's response today when asked about another controversy, the former British ambassador and his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. How this scandal will be front and center again tomorrow. That's next.

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56:04See terms. In our Law and Justice lead, one of the highly anticipated moments of President Trump's trip to England actually happened today. The president and the British prime minister asked about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal and last week's firing of the British ambassador to the U.S., Peter Mandelson, because of new revelations about his ties to Epstein. Both leaders tried to quickly dispose of the question and move on. I don't know him, actually. I had heard that, and I think maybe the Prime Minister would be better speaking of that. That was a choice that he made, and I don't know. What is your answer to that?

56:43Well, I mean, it's very straightforward. Some information came to light last week, which wasn't available when he was appointed, and I made a decision about it, and that's very clear. We're joined now by Florida Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, and And Congresswoman, putting aside that the president was like very complimentary of the former British ambassador in the Oval Office when they were announcing the trade agreement. And I don't know him is a weird thing to say. From your perspective, the House Oversight Committee will interview one time U.S. Attorney Alex Acosta about the plea deal he made with Epstein in 2008.

57:16What do you want to know about it? I want to know, first of all, that we are going to actually have a transcript or a recording of this interview that, you know, right now, as far as I know, is going to take place under wraps and we may never know what the content of it was. But what we really want to make clear is why did Alex Acosta cut this sweetheart plea deal and allow Epstein to have the easiest aftermath of a heinous, massive human and sex trafficking crime of over a thousand young women. It is a total outrage. And what was even more outrageous is it was done without the victims knowing and having an opportunity to have their day in court, which was required under federal law.

58:05Acosta's the need to question Acosta seems to be one of the very few things in all of Washington that Democrats and Republicans agree on, which is why I want to ask you about the point you were making at the start. How is this process playing out from a Republican Democrat bipartisanship or no partisan or all partisanship on the committee? Well, I'm really proud today to be able to share with you that myself and Congressman Tim Burchett, a Republican from Tennessee, introduced once again the bipartisan Courtney Wilde Reinforcing Crime Victims Rights Act. That is bipartisan legislation that will ensure that we don't have any more sex trafficking deals cut in the dark and crime victims like Courtney Wilde and so many other of these young women who were victims are not able to make sure that they can be in court and stand up for their own rights and push back, which they were denied by Alex Acosta through this sweetheart deal cut in the darkness.

59:06Yeah, and I cannot stress enough to viewers, there are no two further ideological parties in the House chamber than you and Congressman Burchett. So that's a very positive development. I want to ask you before I let you go on another subject. You're on the House Appropriations Committee. Do you think there will be a deal to avoid a shutdown? CNN's Manu Raju, who you have to know well whether you like it or not if you're up there on a daily basis, reports that House Republican leaders may try and pass their version of the spending bill. and send everyone home until October at this point? Look, the ball is in the Republicans' court.

59:42Democrats will support a bill that cancels the cuts, that lowers costs, and that will save Americans' health care coverage. If we have a bill on the floor that ensures that, then, you know, Democrats are all about it. But, you know, if Republicans want the status quo, we're not going to allow people's costs to spiral for health care cuts and 15 million people to lose their health care and for their health care coverage to be endangered. So we filed legislation countering their proposal. And we need to come together, work together, ensure that we can cancel the cuts, we can lower costs, and we can save America's health care coverage.

1:00:26That has to be something we sit down together to work through. I have tremendous respect for your ability to work through whatever event they're setting up in the old house chamber behind you. Having been through that before, I very much appreciate it. Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Welcome to my workplace. Yeah, I know, right? Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thanks, Phil. Take care. Well, does comedian Jimmy Kimmel have a case if he wants to sue over ABC suspending his late night show? Could he take it to the U.S. Supreme Court? We're going to ask CNN senior legal analyst next.

1:01:03We're back with our law and justice lead. In light of Jimmy Kimmel's ousting, you may be wondering, has the Trump administration and FCC violated the First Amendment? A 9-0 Supreme Court decision last year reaffirmed, quote, government officials cannot attempt to coerce private parties in order to punish or suppress views that the government disfavors. That same summer, the U.S. Supreme Court ultimately dismissed a suit on federal agencies' efforts to shape social media companies' rules on speech about COVID. But the justices were clear. The First Amendment prohibits the government from silencing private media companies' speech, even if it's potentially false or misleading.

1:01:40CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Honig joins us now. And Ellie, we're just most of this time talking about your new book called When You Come at the King Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President from Nixon to Trump. He spoke with more than 30 people involved in the highest stakes political investigations of the past half century throughout history. It's out now. Anderson Cooper gave it a blurb. That's pretty good. I praise. I will grant you that. I want to start, though, with what we were just talking about before we get into it, which is what is the legal, if any, path here? Yeah, so Jimmy Kimmel may be able to sue ABC if they violated his contract.

1:02:17We don't know the details of his contract. But the bigger question is, can he sue the government? Because the government is subject to the First Amendment. ABC is not because they're a private entity. But in order to sue the government, and he would allege coercion, he would allege the statements by the FCC coerced ABC into releasing him. That's a little bit of a bank shot, though. That's an indirect way to do this. The more direct way would have been if ABC stood up and said, no, we're not getting rid of him, and then the FCC had punished him, then ABC would have had a very clean First Amendment argument.

1:02:49Moving to your book, that point here of there's another point party. And those are the companies. And the companies are making business decisions the last 15 months that are changing the shape of what we have long kind of lived within. And people should not forget that. Your book quotes Omar for the title, which is epic. And I deeply appreciate it. But let's start with, explain to me why you decided to write this, why people should be reading this. So first of all, I was just interested in the history. I mean, these are the biggest, highest stakes political cases from Watergate all the way up through Jack Smith and Donald Trump, which just ended.

1:03:26And to get to talk to the actual prosecutors, defense lawyers, some of the defendants who were prosecuted, White House officials, I thought it was important to tell the history. But also in this moment, and by the way, this plays into the Jimmy Kimmel story, where you have Donald Trump in his second term making clear there will be no dissension, there will be no internal investigations, and anyone who does cross him will be the subject of retribution. Hence the title, right? The quote from Omar is, you come at the king, you best not miss. Meaning if you attack the president, he's going to strike back at you.

1:03:55And I make the argument here that what we're seeing now is fundamentally different from anything else we've seen in history. Yeah, a lot of corners being hit to continue to drag out the metaphor a little bit. You interviewed Saul Weisenberg, who, if people don't remember, is a critical player, central player, and can start prosecutors, prosecution on the prosecution team, the independent counsel, looking into former President Bill Clinton, Weisenberg questioned Clinton in 1998 and elicited the infamous response of this. The statement that there was no sex of any kind in any manner, shape, or form of President Clinton was a utterly false statement.

1:04:35Is that correct? It depends upon what the meaning of the word is. Yeah. Famous line. Famous line. What did he say about that? You know, this is why I love doing this book. So I interviewed the guy who asked Bill Clinton that question. I also interviewed Bill Clinton's lawyers who were sitting at his elbow. But Weisenberg, the guy who asked the question, he told me, he goes, I got to tell you the truth. Up until that point, Clinton was kicking our butts. We didn't get anything out of him. He was in control. We didn't get any admissions. But Weisenberg said when he gave me that answer, the way he said it, if that was a trial, I would have turned to the jury and said, do you believe this guy?

1:05:09He said that would be the only thing that lived on. But Weisenberg also made some really interesting concessions, and a lot of people did. He admitted that in some respects the star team went too far. Of course, Clinton's lawyers felt they went way too far. He admitted that the star team leaked to the media, something that's not been admitted before. So you get a lot of firsthand insight like that into how these cases have actually played out. I think there's a Supreme Court justice who was on that team. Brett Kavanaugh. There's a lot of Republican legal talent there. You interviewed Abby Lowell, who we see a lot these days in terms of representing government officials who have been fired by the Trump administration.

1:05:40He told you that then Attorney General Merrick Garland's appointment of David Weiss as the special counsel was, quote, a disaster or was a disaster, quote, appointment of a special counsel with all its ramifications shouldn't be the same as picking which dish to order from a Chinese menu. But this was done in the mode of giving in to political pressure from Republicans, from those IRS agents yelling for appointment of special counsel. After the plea deal unraveled in 2023, you came on CNN and said it was, quote, really surprising development. that didn't reflect well on either party in the case.

1:06:13What did you learn about the missteps behind the scenes here? Abby Lowell, who represented Hunter Biden, did not hold back at all. He strongly objected to that case going from a normal DOJ prosecution to a special counsel prosecution. And I think he made a good point that in elevating it to that level, it caused the whole thing to go off the rails. And one of the points I make in this book is special counsel cases need to be reserved for investigations of the president or high government officials, not the son of the president. And look, we can learn. I think there are valuable lessons in a lot of the missteps, including in recent years.

1:06:44Yeah, there's no question about it. The book, again, is called When You Come at the King. It's out now. Let's stick around and keep on standby because we've also got other folks who just randomly been sitting here hanging out. Mostly just want to listen to Ellie over the course of the last 10 minutes. And we're going to all talk about a lot of news after the break. So stay with us. What the president said today about protesters who interrupted his field trip to a D.C. restaurant. last week. Stay with us.

1:07:14The breaking news just in. CNN has confirmed that White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt now has Secret Service protection. The decision coming in the wake of the heightened political climate after Charlie Kirk's assassination. I want to bring in the panel right now. I have no issue with this at all. People should get the protection that they need. And I think this moment certainly calls for it. House and Senate, both parties are trying to add that into a funding bill right now. But it is interesting that it comes a couple months after the Secret Service protection was taken away from the former vice president.

1:07:46Jake Tapper:Yeah, I think that's right. I agree with you. I think that if there is a threat against a government official, it is the responsibility of the Secret Service or if it's DHS or another agency, the U.S. Marshals or the FBI, to provide protection to those officials. They're acting on behalf of the American people. They should get that protection. I think what bothers me a little bit is you point out that Vice President Harris had her secret service or her detail pulled. So did Anthony Fauci. I will say that when I was at the Justice Department, he was receiving threats. He had the U.S. Marshals protect him.

1:08:20Jake Tapper:Many times the Justice Department protects all sorts of government officials. They do not announce it, but it's on a threat basis. And that means there is a heightened threat environment. There are threats against these real credible threats against these people and they need protection. And so what bothers me a little bit is I think that while I think that the White House should be protecting everyone that they can and this administration should be protecting everybody, it shouldn't just be the people that they like and the people who are close to them. They need to look out for everyone who has served in the government.

1:08:49And to be clear, President Biden extended in a different manner than had ever been done before the protection for longer, which has been the point the Trump team has said. But the president has pulled a lot of people's protection, Fauci being one of them. I'm interested in kind of just this moment, big picture, as you kind of look at what the president has threatened, what the president has done, what the president's team has done in a moment where the climate is so hot that people are getting service protection that wouldn't normally happen. Yeah, it just goes to show you the moment that we're in.

1:09:20I would agree with Sochi. I mean, obviously, you're going to have political differences with the vice president and whomever else. But I think now would probably be a pretty good time to sort of reassess and maybe re-grant that protection. We have no idea what's to come. You know, that old aphorism when something is bad that we just saw happen to Charlie, usually you have someone who wants to copy, a copycat. We pray that doesn't occur, but we know what the past tells us. And so with that in mind, I would just look at every single person that was a high-statue political official and just grant them at least a temporary protection on that basis.

1:09:53And I don't think that's a partisan thing. I just think we want to keep people safe. Yeah, it's a great point. I do want to talk about the president's comments today on those protesters who disrupted his dinner last week. This is what he said. I thought it was very inappropriate. And they said things that were very, and it was a question of when you take a look at the way they acted, the way they behaved. Yeah, I think they were a threat.

1:10:21It follows his post on Truth Social overnight saying, quote, I am designating Antifa, a sick, dangerous, radical left disaster, as a major terrorist organization. I will also be strongly recommending that those funding Antifa be thoroughly investigated in accordance with the highest legal standards and practices. Those two things are not connected. Like people. Right. Ignore the thing about the people being a threat at Joe's. What the Antifa post, what does that mean? So this is a bizarre twist in federal law. There is a definition of domestic terrorist organization. There can be an argument, maybe you guys will have it, about whether Antifa fits.

1:10:59But that's it. It's a floating definition with no actual law attached. There's no crime of being part of a domestic terror organization. There are separate offenses that go with a foreign terrorist organization designation. So it's a political statement. I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way, but Donald Trump is saying we view this group as falling within this definition. But it gives the government zero additional powers of law enforcement or anything else. And look, is Antifa an organization or not? I understand. That's my question. Well, I understand it both ways. And I've heard some people say, well, you know, they don't have a defined president.

1:11:32They don't have uniforms, whatever. But you don't have to have, I mean, as somebody who tried racketeering cases, we used to say to juries, like, not every criminal organization is going to have an org chart like you would see in a corporation or matching jackets or tattoos. So it helps if there's a defined structure, but it's also not necessary to have a defined structure if you're going to define an organization that way.

1:11:54Jake Tapper:But also, my question is, who does this apply to? I don't know who Antifa is. And last I checked, organizations aren't going around and claiming that they are Antifa or that their views align with Antifa. And so I guess there are some questions in the stories I've read about this is, who is he referring to in this? Who will actually be named a terrorist organization? So I think there are a lot of questions about this. I understand he's trying to make a political statement and all of that fun stuff. But, like, I don't actually know what this means. I mean, I think we have some idea of what Antifa represents.

1:12:29I mean, I go back to 2020. Former FBI Director Christopher Wray spoke about Antifa before Congress. And he said members who are affiliated with this group are anarchists. They seek to find political moments to spread their extremist ideals and to cause violence. This is Christopher Wray, who once upon a time was respected by Democrats and Republicans. And so if you're going to have domesticated groups, whether they're extremists on the left or even extremists on the right, I think the federal government absolutely has an obligation to observe those organizations to see what they're doing. If they are trying to cause disruptions, then we need to crack down on that.

1:13:03The deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, said organized protesters could be investigated by the Justice Department. This is what he said to CNN on Tuesday. What the administration is talking about is organized efforts by individuals who are not present at the protests, but they're funding these protests and they're not protests. They're inflicting damage and harm and actually assaulting officers. They're damaging vehicles. And that's the conduct that we're trying to stop. to be precise. It was an interview with Caitlin Collins and it was an excellent interview. A ton of ground covered. What is the mechanism here?

1:13:40Yeah. So, I mean, what the deputy AG said there is technically correct, right? It's not a crime to protest, but it is a crime if you smash cars and conduct vandalism. One thing that Todd Blanche said earlier in that interview on a great question by Caitlin, which I could not believe the answer, Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi said the same thing that those people who protested Donald Trump and heckled him in the seafood restaurant can be prosecuted for racketeering. I mean, racketeering is used to prosecute ISIS and MS-13 and the Genovese family. And when Caitlin asked Todd Blanchard about that, he got super defensive.

1:14:10He said, that's not all we use it for. Yeah, but we don't use it to prosecute protesters, people yelling in a restaurant. So that's of concern to me. If they're thinking of extending racketeering charges to protesters who just only engage in speech, we've got a problem.

1:14:24Jake Tapper:Well, but I also think that Trump has put the Justice Department and attorneys at the Justice Department in this interesting situation because he also said, I'm going to have Pam Bondi look at what happened at Joe's the other day. And Pam Bondi is like, she knows she can get fired at any moment by Donald Trump. So she's like, yes, yes, I will. I will look at that and has to come up with something to look at in order to please the president. But this has been the story of the administration. The president wants something. Pam Bondi runs and figures out how to do it. So I think this is one of those examples where they have to kind of figure out what does the law say and how do we please Donald Trump?

1:14:58We'll see if this goes anywhere. I think there's an interesting duality as it pertains to this. On one side, we certainly want to protect free speech. You have a constitutional right to peacefully assemble. I'm a conservative. I want to protect that right. But we've also seen moments where people have stolen things from stores. They've broken windows. They've attacked people in the public. And that's a separate group that I think we would all be in agreement. You want to protect everyday citizens. You want to arrest those folks and put them in jail where they belong. But you also want to protect people who are peacefully assembling politics, and maybe they dislike the individual.

1:15:27We have a right in this country to do that. Yeah, finding that balance is always a challenge over the course of history. It certainly seems that way. By the way, didn't Capone get taken down by a different use of RICO? Am I making that? Tax charges, man. Pay your taxes. Sorry. There's expansive views. Be creative, Ellie. I was very creative as a prosecutor. Thank you guys very much. Appreciate you as always. Well, a big name in music is coming up next on The Lead, Dave Matthews. His close connection to a big project will carry live on CNN Saturday night.

1:16:01In our pop lead this Saturday, CNN will broadcast the 40th anniversary of Farm Aid. It's an all-star lineup of musical artists who donate proceeds to support family farms and homegrown food. Dick Tapper spoke with Farm Aid board member Dave Matthews. David, so good to have you. Congratulations on all the success. You first played at FarmAid 30 years ago. Tell me how you got hooked up with them and why you feel so passionately about farmers and making sure that family farms stay strong. Well, I think I was excited. The band, we were just sort of making a name for ourselves then. And so the opportunity to play with Willie and Neil and John and everybody was sort of kind of a bit of a dream come true.

1:16:55And I'll never forget standing on the side of the stage and watching Neil just by himself in a stadium full of people just sitting on a little chair and just completely rocked the house. And then watching Willie Nelson, Willie go to the side of the stage where the backstage and the front of the house connected. There was a little gap in the fence, and he just stood there, what seemed like for hours, just signing autographs. Just felt like I learned a lot on that one gig about how to present yourself and how to remain humble. But the bottom line is that, you know, I have a couple of farmers in my family going back, you know, my uncle and my grandmother and, you know, what we sort of imagine farmers to be, you know, the sort of paintings that we imagine and, you know, caring for the land and caring for the food you make and caring for your community is sort of the source.

1:18:01That idea, that poetry, that exists, but it's always under threat from a very different version of farming, which is the corporatized, profit-driven, so that it poisons the land and produces food that will last, but not necessarily the best food. And there's so many reasons, and it's all driven by profit. And so it undercuts the people, the real farmers, as what I would call them, the family farmers, the people that believe in the sort of sacredness of the land and working with the land, these family farmers, the smaller farmers that produce good food and are sort of a foundational part of real community.

1:18:51And so that's what Farm Aid's been trying to defend because it's always under threat by this other style of farming. And so Farm Aid's commitment is really to nurturing the family farmers that are still there and struggling to survive and also inspire new people to join that sort of healthy, wonderful food system that we should be more connected to and that should connect us to the land more. It's just like a it's just it gives me faith when I see people that believe so wholeheartedly in the importance of the earth and the food we get from it and how that translates into our society and our community.

1:19:39And I know Willie Nelson's son, Lucas, sometimes performs with you. I saw you guys playing out in Montana not long ago. So that's a that's a lovely musical tradition going full circle on CNN. We just interviewed farmers from the Midwest. They talked a lot about the challenges facing them in terms of the government subsidies and the weather, the decrease in farm workers. What are you hearing from farmers on the ground? Right now, there's so many things on top of that sort of trying to compete with with, you know, this profit system of sort of giant corporate farms and trying to compete with factory farms, which are poisonous.

1:20:18both the food they produce and also poisonous into the land where they're, you know, this sort of concentrated amount of mistreatment of the earth. But also with some of the trade wars that are happening with soybean farmers are really struggling to sell because China is essentially not buying our soybeans anymore, which is about, I think, about 40 % of where our soybeans go is to China. And then also, obviously, with the climate in a time at least when it's not as consistent, and so there's more sort of catastrophic weather events, and that's a real challenge. And being priced out, farms have gotten bigger, about$65 ,000, just in Minnesota, where we're going to be, I think there's about, there's over 65, just over 65 ,000 farms.

1:21:18And the sort of physical land that those farms on average cover has grown quite a bit, I think, in the last few years, which you'd think might amount to something, but actually the average, the medium income, I think, of farmers is under$25 ,000 a year, which is, you know, that's barely getting by. And it's the lowest in this century. I mean, so things aren't looking up. So we have to find solutions to connect farmers to at least a fair way of being compensated for their, you know, it's hard, hard work that these people have committed their lives to. And they should be compensated in a fair way.

1:22:08It's a if these are truly heroes, you know, and unsung. And the thing that's so great for me about being part of Farm Aid is that we get to and thank you guys for airing it, is that we get to be a voice for people that, you know, for very obvious reasons, farmers. It's hard to hear their their cries, you know. Yeah. Well, because Dave, we thank you so much for your activism for them and and for your time today. We really appreciate it. God bless you for what you do for those hardworking men and women. The big shows this weekend, the Farm Aid Benefit Concert, live from Minneapolis. CNN's John Berman and Laura Coates.

1:22:48They got the lucky gig they're going to host. That's Saturday night at 7 Eastern, only here on CNN. Well, if you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Aaron Burnett, Outfront, starts now.

1:23:04Go inside the sports moments that brought us together and made history from the underdogs to the rivalries and the miracles. The new CNN original series, Decades in Sports. Watch back-to-back premieres August 2nd on CNN and next day on the CNN app.