Federal Agent Shoots Man After “Ambush” In Minneapolis

23:55the guy who would prioritize the interests of Americans first on the economy and also vis-a-vis immigration, and that he was very skeptical of the United States getting involved in protracted, costly, expensive conflicts with no end. And so this is sort of the antithesis of that initial premise and framing of his argument. So I would certainly advise the president stick with the promises that we made to the American people. I agree that we have to make sure that Russia, principally China, doesn't have any advantages there, But there is a diplomatic approach to accomplishing this. And again, there is a 51 defense agreement that we have where we can put as many U.S.

24:30troops as we want to secure that part. Yeah, I mean, look, I think the Danes have already said, actually, there's been no activity by China there for over a decade. So I think that's off the table. Specifically on Greenland, not in the region. In the region. But no, I mean, look, I think what McConnell is speaking to is something bigger, right? This is about literally breaking the world order as it has been for the most part since World War II. Right. That there was NATO. There are certain agreements that are in place. There's a way there's there's the good guys. There's the bad guys. I'm not saying we've always been doing everything right.

25:04But the point being, he's talking about literally just, you know, breaking that to pieces. And that is not in our national interest. That is not our national security interest. And frankly, it would be a disaster for our economy. So I agree with him. I mean, in addition to all the things that Democrats will are going to hang around his neck when he's out of office, this would be a disaster. I just want to take a note to talk about how Senator McConnell sounded in that clip. He's 83 years old. He's had a number of public stumbles and health related episodes in recent years. He's not running for reelection.

25:37But as somebody who defended President Biden, who had his moments as well, what was your reaction to that delivery? It was distressing. I haven't seen him speak in quite some time. And it was very noticeable that, I mean, we know he's had a couple of strokes. It's pretty noticeable. But, you know, I guess he's going to finish out his term and we'll see who wins his seat. Look, I, you know, I kind of defended President Biden. I also was, you know, I did, as you may remember, question at times, you know, what's going on and what are we being told? But, look, the most important thing is can he still do the job?

26:12And according to what he just said, he made a very important cogent point, despite the fact that he it is noticeable that he doesn't sound well. I recently saw the former majority leader a couple weeks ago, before the end of the year, at a private dinner with our Scott Jennings and had a wonderful conversation with him about politics, about the future of the party. And he seemed to be fine. Of course, he's aging. That's a part of life. That clock is constantly ticking. None of us can get away from it, but I'm happy to see that he's still involved in the things he cares about. Sure, Michael Singleton, Karen Finney, thanks for being here.

26:45Appreciate it. Coming up, that Venezuelan opposition leader, Maria Karina Machado, revealing that she presented her Nobel Peace Prize medal to President Trump. Might she be rewarded for this act of kindness? That's next.

27:01The relationship between the FBI director and the president has always been complicated. Unravel the complex dynamic in the CNN original series, Standoff, the FBI, Power and Paranoia. Now streaming on the CNN app. We have some breaking news for you and our world lead. Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Machado revealed that she did present her Nobel Peace Prize medal to President Trump at the White House today. She also called her meeting with the president historic and she said that Venezuela has a president-elect. Referring to opposition candidate Edmondo Gonzalez, who won election in 2024, but Nicolas Maduro's regime would not let him take office.

27:40And we should note that Nicolas Maduro's regime is largely intact, except for Nicolas Maduro and his wife. In another foreign policy front, there is Iran and its brutal crackdown on anti-government protesters. One day after President Trump claimed that the killing in Iran had stopped, the White House issued this warning. The president and his team have communicated to the Iranian regime that if the killing continues, there will be grave consequences. A source telling CNN that the U.S. is moving a Navy carrier strike group to the Middle East region as tensions continue to simmer with Iran. Joining us to discuss things, Iran and Venezuela, former National Security Council and State Department official Brett Bruhn and former New York Times journalist based in Tehran, Nazila Fati.

28:25Brett, first to you on Venezuela and opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. Do you think her presenting the Nobel Peace Prize medal to Trump was predictable? Do you think anything will happen because of that? It was because Trump made clear that that was the price that she and that her movement were going to have to pay in order to get entry back into this political process. It's shameful, Jake. It is an embarrassment for the U.S. You can imagine Nelson Mandela having to come to the White House and present his Nobel Peace Prize to George H.W. Bush. it would have been unthinkable. It would have been unacceptable.

29:07And yet here we are. And Brett, the White House says Venezuela's interim government and the acting president, Delce Rodriguez, Maduro's former vice president, they say they're being extremely cooperative. As Trump and Machado met, Rodriguez addressed Venezuela and urged lawmakers there to wage a diplomatic battle with the United States. What do you make of that? Well, this is the problem with Trump's approach to Venezuela. The ideology of chavismo has not changed. Their alignment even with Russia, Iran, China, that hasn't changed either. And Jake, you know, something that's really important to pay attention to both in Venezuela and in Iran is Trump is doing this sort of superficial strategy.

29:54And underneath that, the repression still takes place. We talked about it in Venezuela. I think we will see that play out in Iran as well. If, you know, Trump is not getting beyond that superficial level, there's going to be a lot, unfortunately, of human rights abuses and other repression taking place. Let's turn to Iran because Nazila, the Trump administration, in terms of new actions, they have issued some new sanction on members of the Iranian regime and its entities. But the other day, President Trump told Iranians to keep protesting and help is on the way. Are these sanctions the help that Iranians need or do they need more?

30:34Well, I'm not a big fan of economic sanctions. They have an expiry date and after a while they don't work and it is the people on the ground who suffer the most. Yes, President Trump has put himself in quite a complicated situation. Iranians named a street after him, basically pleading for help and protection. And he promised that he's going to help them. Now, if he doesn't do anything, that will be viewed as abandonment. But he has already said too much to sort of back down now. On the other hand, if there is military intervention, I don't know exactly what that will accomplish, especially if there are lots of civilian casualties.

31:18But he has other tools. There are other apparatus that he can use at this moment. One of them is targeting Iran's repression apparatus, which is the only system that has been working like a very well greased machine. The president can address that. We saw today that Iranian foreign minister appeared on Fox News. This is interesting because he knows the president watches Fox News and he used that platform. So basically that means some of the president's threats have worked and has got their attention. So the New York Times is reporting that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asked President Trump to postpone any military attack on Iran.

32:01The Times says the two spoke yesterday. Today the White House confirmed that they did speak, but they wouldn't say whether Netanyahu encouraged Trump to not strike or at least to postpone a strike against Iran. What do you make of that and other reported de-escalation efforts that we're hearing other Arab states made to President Trump urging restraint? So it is not clear exactly what they want to achieve at this moment with a military strike. The attack in June was defined. It had a specific goal. It was a surgical attack. It is not clear exactly where they want to attack and how they want to target Iran's sort of revolutionary guards headquarters.

32:42There are a lot of soldiers at these headquarters who are just ordinary young men who have to serve their military service. So I think they don't have a very clear plan on how to help Iranians through a military intervention. So that makes sense that they are postponing it. Yeah, I mean, look, if it was easy, it would have been done by now, right? Just quickly, you have family in Iran. Have you talked to them? I have talked to them. They are fine. They're too old, so they're not on the streets. But the situation in Iran is worrisome because the number of people who have been killed, just even passerbys, is extremely high.

33:25The violence this time is not comparable to any other previous crackdowns. Yeah, it's a shame we don't have people protesting in the streets about this. All right, Brett Brun and Nazila Fati, thank you so much for both of you being here. Appreciate it. Coming up, How a Man's Ride with a Tow Truck Driver inspired his compelling new movie about U.S. veterans and some of their darkest moments after they come home.

33:55Our pop culture lead now, Sheepdog, is a new movie hitting theaters this weekend. It tells the story of Calvin Cole, a decorated U.S. Army veteran navigating the physical and psychological trauma of combat. Through the support of a VA trauma therapist and his father-in-law, who's a retired Vietnam veteran, Calvin is forced to face his past and start his journey toward healing, recovery, and redemption. We came back and they spat on us at the airport. No homecoming parade, no celebrations. You can't pretend like you have any idea what it's like to be in combat. No, but what I do know is this field of work that I've dedicated my life to has helped a lot of people.

34:38When you got back, something was different. It wasn't that you'd changed. You'd been replaced. You'd been replaced. What a haunting line of dialogue. The writer and director and star of Sheepdog Stephen Graham joins us now. Now, Stephen, these are issues we cover a lot on the show in a nonfiction way, but we also like to bring shine a light on fictional portrayals of it. This film was 14 years in the making. Tell us about the journey and what sparked your interest in creating this film. Sure. First, I'd just like to thank you really quickly for having me on, Jake. I know with the current news cycle, this means everything.

35:16Sheepdog, yes, was a 14-year journey to the screen. I mean, it began in 2011 when my car broke down three hours north of Los Angeles. And the local tow truck driver who had picked me up on that three-hour journey began to open up about some of the challenges he was facing in his life, his marital issues, being the father of three. And then he began to open up about the medications that he was on that were tethered to his multiple deployments overseas. What struck me was that this man that was trying to hold it all together had served his country honorably and felt so disconnected from his family, his community, even his brothers and sisters he served with.

35:55When I got back to Los Angeles, I thanked him for getting me home safe. And it dawned on me that it was easier to confide in a stranger that would listen without prejudice than it would be to somebody in his direct circle. And so that lit the spark. That was the seminal moment. And it became greater than a curiosity, which eventually evolved into a responsibility. And that summer of 2011, I went out on the road, did a nationwide road trip, and that became the foundation for Sheepdog. So the film explores the very, very real struggles that you just alluded to associated with post-traumatic stress.

36:33It also focuses on something else. It's called post-traumatic growth, or PTG. Tell us about that. Sure. So, you know, the benefit of, yes, this being a 14-year journey was that the folks I met with, hundreds of folks, mental health workers, Gold Star family members, veterans, active duty, I got to see their journey over the last 10 years. And so, to me, to see their growth and post-traumatic growth being living on the other side of your trauma. and what Sheepdog aims to do is to take you to the dark corners and the quiet places of trauma and to show you what can be on the other side of that if you're able to commit to doing the work.

37:20You founded a production company that specifically hires and trains veterans and members of military families to work in front of and behind the camera. And just in this film alone, we're told you hired 17 veterans and five Gold Star family members. for on-set and post-production roles. Yeah, I mean, I had the good fortune to be able to provide that employment. Veterans show up early, they'll stay late. Filmmaking is very much a very working class job. You're working with your hands, you're moving C-stands and sandbags and so on. So the camaraderie together is just amazing. And I thought tonally for the film to have Gold Star family members on set, some of which their children's legacy loosely inspired some of the events in the film that my character talks about.

38:14There's just no substitution for that. And, you know, it's been my great honor to be able to have them be a part of this journey. And we should note that you guys are partnering with Vet Tix and First Tix to provide donated tickets to your movie to veterans and first responders and their families so they can go see Sheepdog in theaters. You can see Sheepdog in theaters this weekend. Stephen Graham, thank you so much and congratulations. Thank you so much, Jake. Thank you for having me. Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour protests are flaring up again in Minneapolis today as President Trump threatens to invoke the Insurrection Act and deploy U.S.

38:50troops to the streets of Minnesota. We're going to go live on the scene of the protest in moments. And I'm going to be joined by Homeland Security officials who worked under Trump and Biden to get their insights. Also, Venezuela's opposition leader Maria Carina Machado says she gave President Trump her Nobel Peace Prize medal when she visited the White House today. Just last week, CNN's Caitlin Collins asked Trump if he would change his mind about her leading Venezuela if she made such a gesture. So what now? Plus, President Trump asked about the midterm elections in a new interview already is predicting Republicans will struggle later this year.

39:25But then he went on to say, quote, we shouldn't even have an election in November. Here are the White House's explanation of those remarks this afternoon. And blinding snow causing multiple serious accidents across the Midwest, including a 30-car pileup in Indiana. And now multiple storm systems are threatening more snow, potentially for millions of Americans. An upcoming forecast is ahead.

39:52The lead tonight, President Trump threatening to use the Insurrection Act, an act we should note he did not invoke during an actual insurrection, January 6, 2021. But this one he is threatening as anti-ICE protests flare in Minneapolis. Protests against ICE began last week, especially after an ICE officer shot and killed Rene Good. And those protests reignited last night after a federal agent in Minneapolis shot and injured a Venezuelan national during an attempted arrest. The Trump administration says the shooting was in response to the suspect assaulting the agent. Today, the White House press secretary defended President Trump's threats to invoke the Insurrection Act, which would allow him to deploy the U.S.

40:31military to Minneapolis. The Insurrection Act is a tool at the president's disposal. As you know, it has been used sparingly, but it has been used by previous presidents. And it's truly shameful that now for more than a year, you've had elected Democrat governors and mayors who have basically held their state and local law enforcement hostage and told them you cannot cooperate with federal law enforcement. CNN's Shimon Prokopez is on the ground for us in Minneapolis. Shimon? Yeah, so certainly anything that would escalate the situation here by bringing in military or actual law enforcement would only enrage folks here.

41:14I've been talking to people here in the crowd, Jake. We're outside the federal building where most of the protesters have been gathering the last several days because this is the federal building where federal officials and law enforcement, This is where they drive into. And so like we've seen in Chicago and in Portland, a lot of protesters would gather outside these buildings because they can come face to face with federal law enforcement. And like you'll see here, Jake, there's this white SUV park. That's Federal Protective Services. Sometimes they'll drive out and that's when the crowd will start screaming at them, telling them to go back inside.

41:54But since I've been here for the past 45 minutes or so, we've not seen any escalation from law enforcement or really just anyone else here. It's just been a lot of yelling. I will note a couple of things, Jake, about Minneapolis today. I've been in touch with some of the ice watchers and the civilians and the community members who are these rapid response folks. And it's been relatively quiet here today. They've not seen a whole lot of activity. last night was certainly unusual in that the federal law enforcement was out there at night doing these operations, which is unusual. And of course, we saw what we saw and there was this flare up.

42:36But for today, everything has been centered around here. And it seems as though for now things are remaining calm. And hopefully, I think for people who live here, there hope there isn't any kind of escalation from the federal government and certainly the local police stake. All right, Siobhan Prokopez, thanks so much. And our national lead, a nation divided over immigration enforcement, speaking to reporters outside the White House this morning, the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, defended ICE agents who have been asking people in Minneapolis to prove their U.S.

43:08citizens by asking for their paperwork. Let's listen to what she exactly had to say about this. Why are we seeing Americans being asked on the street to provide proof of citizenship in Minnesota? Is that targeted enforcement? And are you advising Americans to carry proof of citizenship? In every situation, we're doing targeted enforcement. If we are on a target and doing an operation, there may be individuals surrounding that criminal that we may be asking who they are and why they're there and having them validate their identity. Joining us to discuss Ken Cuccinelli, who was the acting deputy secretary for the Department of Homeland Security in President Trump's first administration.

43:46Also with us, John Sandweg, who was the acting director of ICE under President Obama. Ken, let me start with you. Is this standard protocol? Is Secretary Noem suggesting that anyone on the streets of Minneapolis or anywhere in the U.S. should be carrying proof of citizenship? Well, she didn't say that. She said that when they're doing targeted enforcement, which is all they do. When there are others in the near vicinity, they're trying to screen them out. So she described a process of screening out, not wandering the streets asking people for documentation. And that is appropriate. You want to focus on your targets and you want to exclude anyone not associated with them.

44:26But I mean, just with respect, I mean, that's a distinction without a difference. I'm not talking about, even assuming that they only do this in targeted big enforcements, if there are people in the area, they need to be carrying, I mean, if they're not in this country illegally, they still need to be carrying proof of citizenship. So, Jake, you're overbroadening the application of this. I mean, it isn't anybody on the sidewalk when you're pursuing a particular person with a removal order. It's people who are traveling in association. Perhaps you pull the vehicle over and that person is driving and there's two other people in the vehicle.

45:03Well, you know, you do have a crime being committed. This is a person in the country illegally that's a continuing offense. And so you just you secure the location. I mean, this is not out of the ordinary for law enforcement of all types. John, what's your take? You know, Jake, you hear these the secretary say we're doing targeted operations, but I'm seeing images of Border Patrol agents hitting target stores. Right. Some of these tactics we're seeing don't necessarily look targeted to me. Even if they are targeted, however, two things I think are clear. One is we've changed the targeting rules.

45:38We're going after everybody. I mean, the data from the ICE detentions tell us that. Over 70 % of these people currently in detention have no criminal history. But again, in terms of IDing people who are right there, those so-called collaterals, Jake, I don't disagree that that's standard practice. It's just the question itself of whether they're really doing targeted operations. I'm not entirely sure that that's what we're seeing. So a recent Quinnipiac University poll found that a narrow majority of voters, 52 percent, believe that last week's fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Good involving an ICE officer in Minneapolis was not justified.

46:10John, how does DHS respond to Americans seemingly having declining trust in ICE and DHS? Stop rushing into judgment. Stop telling us every time that this is only about the worst of the worst when it's not. And to be fair, Jake, I think there are some administration officials who say we are out there to get illegal immigrants off the street. But let's be honest. That's what we're trying to do here. Mass deportation, not against the worst of the worst, but against the general undocumented population. And then three is, you know, when there's an incident like this, let the investigation play out.

46:42Right. Don't just make a rush to judgment. You do those things and then, Jacob, just throw in quickly, de-escalate a little bit, stop doing operational tactics that seem to me designed less about law enforcement and more about political messaging. And I think we'll start the healing process, so to speak, rebuilding that ICE reputation. Ken, your response? Yeah, John makes a lot of points that are worth addressing. One is, first of all, turning the rhetoric down. That's true for everybody and letting investigations play out. Now, having said that, you know, John was directly responsible for these officers.

47:19I was, you know, the next layer up. You care about the people who work for you. You want to protect them. You know, they're not perfect. and when you see them really ganged up on, as we're seeing in Minneapolis here, you do end up with some strategic decision-making. Do you back off or do you not cede the ground? And this administration is not ceding the ground, and I hear John referencing that to, you know, how you respond. And candidly, we may differ on this, John and I, but I think that you can't let state officials who are trying to harbor illegal aliens back you off doing your job. And that means accomplishing the mission of removing people who are here illegally.

48:03And many, most, over 95 percent, haven't committed some other crime. So I believe this administration has very effectively, frankly, they've overdone it, prioritized people who've committed other crimes among the deportations they're executing. The vast number, tens of millions of people here illegally haven't committed additional aggravated crimes, maybe some, but that's a small percentage. If you're going to actually keep the president's campaign promises of large-scale deportation, you prioritize criminals, which they have done, but that doesn't mean you don't remove everyone else who's here illegally, which they're beginning to proceed toward.

48:49John? Jake, there's a way of doing this. There's a way of enforcing the law. This notion that you have to either be for open borders or for what we're seeing in the streets of Minneapolis, again, it's just a false choice. You can go after those individuals who have clear criminal records, not just immigration related violations, make hundreds of thousands of arrests, fulfill the president's promises, but truly focus on the worst of the worst and not cause the civil unrest that we're seeing playing out right now in Minneapolis. Ken, President Trump is threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act.

49:19I mean, that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to. Do you think that he's seriously considering it? Or do you think this is more of a warning shot across the bow to local officials? Or maybe even kind of messaging, trying to get the American people, the media and others to focus more on the tactics of some of the protesters, some of whom, not most of whom, but some of whom are bad apples, some of whom are instigators. What's your take on it all? So, first of all, the Insurrection Act is rather unfortunately named. It covers four different circumstances, only one of which is insurrection. That would not be the use the president is talking about putting the Insurrection Act to.

49:59The use he is talking about putting it to is when, in his judgment, federal resources, in this case ICE agents, officers, and so forth, are inadequate to achieve their mission. And and that implicitly means as safely as it can reasonably be done without further resource assistance. And the Insurrection Act allows the president to move the military into that position alongside officers in that situation. And so I do think, to your question, Jake, he's very seriously considering this because, frankly, it's worked where they've used approaches like this in other parts of the country. If you have an issue with its title, you should probably take that up with your fellow Virginian, Thomas Jefferson, Ken.

50:50John, last word. That is when it got the name, Jake. That is when it got the name. Yeah. Jake, look, I'll tell you this before we rush under the insurrection, which is only going to escalate tensions. Let's try to find some common ground there. I promise you, during my time at ice and Ken knows this during his time at ice, sometimes the politicians make it a lot of noise. But when you let the law enforcement guys talk to each other, they'll help each other out, state and locals and the feds. Let's try to find that a common ground. Let's swap out some of those DHS personnel and those Border Patrol agents and tactical gear for state and local police when doing the federal protective mission.

51:22And let's try to go back and find some places where we can go get some people. I guarantee you the Minneapolis chief of police wants to get criminals who have violent criminal histories off his streets as well. Let's get back to the tactics of work that are less disruptive. And I think we can, you know, make the country safer together. Ken Cuccinelli and John Sandwick, thank you so much. Thanks for the lively and respectful discussion on a controversial issue. Really appreciate it. Good to be with you. Venezuela's opposition leader says she gifted President Trump her Nobel Peace Prize medal during a visit to the White House earlier today.

51:53CNN's Caitlin Collins has new details next.

51:59Next. In our world lead, the big question, does President Trump now technically possess a Nobel Peace Prize? He has not been awarded one, but does he have one? Because earlier today, President Trump met with Nobel Peace Prize winner and Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Karina Machado. Trump had declined to endorse her following the U.S. capture of leader Nicolas Maduro as the next leader of Venezuela. And after Machado met with Trump, she told reporters this. I presented the president of the United States the medal of the Nobel Peace Prize. So let's go to CNN's Caitlin Collins at the White House.

52:46Caitlin, so does President Trump now possess this peace prize? What else do we know about this meeting? You know, Jake, it's interesting that we actually have not heard that much from the White House on this meeting. Or, you know, that was news to us when Machado came out and said that she had presented her prize to the president. It wasn't shocking. It was something we had expected because she had been talking about it. And obviously, the president has made his desire to win the Nobel Peace Prize quite clear time and time again and has repeatedly said that he believes he should have won it in place of Machado, who called him right after she won it.

53:20And so, Jake, we did see her arriving here at the White House today, and we were looking at pictures because obviously she is carrying a bag. We've not heard yet confirmation from the White House that the president did indeed receive this. But when she was leaving, she was also carrying this bag. And if you notice, Jake, it's a bag that has the president's signature on it. He often takes his guest on a tour of the White House gift shop that he has installed right outside the Oval office whenever they visit. So it's not clear what she got in exchange as she was here at the White House today. But even if she did give the president the physical Nobel Peace Prize that she won, Jake, I should note the committee did put out a statement today weighing in on this matter, essentially saying that it is not transferable and that there is one truth remain, that once it's announced, it cannot be revoked, shared or transferred to others, that the decision is final and that it stands for all time.

54:08So obviously, this is largely symbolic here, Jake. But really, what it comes down to is why she would do this and that is because she wants to run Venezuela. She obviously was the most popular opposition figure in the last elections that they had when Maduro was still there and was rigging the elections and so that's why I asked the president last Friday when we were in the East Room with him and he was meeting with oil executives about Venezuela if she gave him the prize whether it would change his mind about her running that country and this is what the president told me. You're meeting with Machado next week.

54:41If she gives you her Nobel Peace Prize, will that change your view about her running that country? Well, I have to speak to her. I mean, I'm going to have to speak to her. She might be involved in some aspect of it. I can't think of anybody in history that should get the Nobel Prize more than me. And I don't want to be bragging, but nobody else settled wars. Obama got the Nobel Prize. He had no idea why. So, Jake, it remains to be seen what comes next after this, after she gave him that prize today. The president still has not weighed in himself on Truth Social or any other statement. So we'll wait to see and hear from the president on his view of how that went.

55:15And obviously, which is the much larger question here, which is what is next for Venezuela and how that is going to plan out in terms of elections and who is leading that country. He can't think of anyone who deserves a Nobel Peace Prize more than him. Caitlin Collins at the White House. Thanks so much. And don't miss Caitlin on her show. The source with Caitlin Collins, her guest tonight, includes Maryland Governor Wes Moore. That's tonight at 9 Eastern only on CNN and the CNN app. Critics are jumping on comments made by the Secretary of Agriculture about what she thinks Americans could eat for dinner for just$3.

55:50We're going to talk to a former Trump economic advisor about this next.

55:59In our money lead, a$3 dinner and a storm of backlash. U.S. Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins is under fire after suggesting that Americans can eat a healthy meal for only$3. This is while she was promoting the Trump administration's new Make America Healthy Again food guidelines, which emphasize meat and de-emphasize processed foods, which tend to be cheaper. Take a listen to what she had to say. We've run over a thousand simulations. It can cost around$3 a meal for a piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, corn tortilla, and one other thing. And so there is a way to do this that actually will save the average American consumer money.

56:42A lot of critics out there didn't buy it and are questioning whether that plate that she's proposing is even possible at today's grocery prices. The administration says the math works if Americans cook at home with real food. Let's bring in our guest, former Trump economic advisor Steve Moore. Steve, good to see you. Although we should note, egg prices have fallen since President Trump took office. But still overall, ground beef has risen 15.5 percent, frozen fish 8.6 percent, according to the latest Consumer Price Index. So how can claims of low-cost meals be reconciled with these rising grocery prices for proteins and such?

57:21Well, thanks for having me, Jake. I think there's really two issues here. One is the issue of the Agriculture Secretary, Brooke Rollins, who, by the way, for full disclosure, is a good friend of mine. Should they be promoting healthier diets? And I say absolutely yes to that. I think this is an excellent initiative. We could cut our health care costs dramatically with just better diets for people. And by the way, I'm the first in line that I don't have a very healthy diet. I eat way too much sugar and processed food, and that's just not good for you. And so I really applaud Brooke for this initiative, and I hope people pay attention to how you can improve your health by eating healthier food.

58:01Now, the question then is, can you do it for$3? Now, it depends on what you're putting in that tortilla. So, for example, you mentioned the fact that egg prices have fallen. That's true. I'll tell you something else that's fallen in price is pork. Pork chops and pork products have fallen in price. Now, you're right. Beef has risen in price and other foods and groceries have have have risen. So I think you've got to you've got to be a very cost conscious consumer to get that that tortilla down to three dollars. So, yeah, I mean, look, healthier eating is a great cause. It was a great cause when Michelle Obama did it.

58:37It's a great cause with RFK Jr. doing it. But the issue is like it is true. healthier food, especially in terms of non-processed and in terms of protein, it costs more, generally speaking. And groceries are up right now 2.4 % in terms of costs year over year. Overall food prices are up 3.1 % according to the CPI. So then the question becomes, well, what measures is the Trump administration taking to address these rising food prices at the same time that they are, and again, applause, applause, pushing Americans to have a healthier diet? Well, first of all, over the last three months, the good news is for consumers that the incomes are rising faster than inflation finally.

59:22And it's been a long time since that's happened. So that means people have over, at least in the last few months, more affordability, not less, especially when it comes to things like paying your grocery bills. But it would depend, I don't know, Jake, how big a serving that they're talking about. I mean, one of the problems with people's nutrition is we all, and again, I'm guilty of this of anyone, we overeat. We eat too much, and we consume too much calories. So I'd like to see kind of how much broccoli she's talking about, how much chicken, how big are the servings. I don't want to overstate the controversy here.

59:58This isn't let them eat cake. This isn't ketchup as a vegetable. But do you think there was anything that she should have phrased differently? Well, I'd like to see that. Look, I'm not going to criticize what Brooke said because she's an honest person. I think they've probably done the data and they found a way you could do this for$3. So I bet if you had her on, I bet she could show you exactly how we can cut our food budgets and still have a very healthy diet. And I'm very much in favor of that. But look, I'm just a big fan on where this economy is right now. I think people have more affordability now as wages rise.

1:00:38And so people can afford better meals and healthier meals. Steve Moore, thanks so much. Appreciate it. As protesters gather once again tonight in Minneapolis, one city leader there says that elected officials, including Democratic Governor Tim Walz, need to be doing more to fight back against the Trump administration's ICE operations in their city. That's ahead.

1:01:04In our politics lead, now you might have seen some claims out there, especially on social media, that the Trump administration is using phrases and imagery and memes that evoke dark days and appeal to white supremacists. It's a reference to some of the memes that the Trump administration posts on social media or on signs it chooses to publicly display. We want to take a serious look at this right now. What's true? What isn't? Because it's certainly not all true. For example, we saw recently people talking about the words on Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem's lectern from last week. It says, quote, one of ours, all of yours.

1:01:42Some on social media claim that that phrase is a Nazi slogan from the past, from history. But that's not true. We found no historical evidence to support that claim. And the Department of Homeland Security tells CNN that that was specifically a reference to a Border Patrol agent who had been shot. But let's turn to another claim. The Labor Department posted this on X Saturday. It's a video of a statue of George Washington over historical images. And the caption says, one homeland, one people, one heritage. Remember who you are, American. Now, there are a lot of critics out there who say that how that was phrased is disturbingly similar to the Nazi slogan, Ein Volk, Ein Reich, ein Führer, which means one people, one realm, one leader.

1:02:27And that was seen in German on this Nazi propaganda war poster from the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. Of course, it's not the same phrase, but there are critics out there, including some conservatives, who suggest that there are echoes that are disturbing. The Labor Department did not respond to repeated requests for comment on this. In a post from the Homeland Security Department, we saw a stealth bomber flying over a man on horseback. Gives off some Marlboro Man vibes. What you can't see here is the song the department attached to this post. It's called We'll Have Our Home Again, which is also the text placed over that image.

1:03:03We'll have our home again. And that phrase, we'll have our home again. And the song has been cited by PBS and The Intercept and the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Global Project Against Tait and Extremism as a song that has a lot of appeal to white nationalist groups. Now, we, of course, cannot say why that song or that phrase was chosen. The song lyrics feature lines that evoke sentiments often expressed by conservatives about immigration, such as, quote, in our own towns we're foreigners now, unquote. And perhaps it was chosen simply for that reason, or maybe it's just a coincidence. The Homeland Security Department tells us, quote, we'll have our home again was a reference to the, quote, 20 plus million illegal aliens invading the country, unquote.

1:03:45What they make of this criticism and the concerns, even from their fellow conservatives, about these images and these words, the response was, quote, this is why people don't take the media seriously, unquote. On Wednesday, the White House posted this image on X showing two Greenlandic dog sled teams facing a crossroads, It's captioned, which way, Greenland man, which appears to be a variation of which way, American man, as seen in this Homeland Security Department tweet from last year. Now, at first glance, the picture and that phrase seem innocuous enough. This is a long-established meme, which way, blank man.

1:04:19But according to experts, the phrase originated with a book from 1978 called Which Way, Western man, written by an avowed white supremacist, William Gaylor Simpson, who, among other disturbing beliefs, argued that Hitler was right. Now, we're sure that lots of folks familiar with online meme culture are completely unaware of the hateful origins of that meme. And that could, of course, be true for the Trump administration as well. It's entirely possible that President Trump's rather meme-happy group is using some of these images with no idea that they might have repugnant origins or echoes. But these are just a few examples of many.

1:04:57And after a certain number of them, one wonders, if this is all accidental, if it's all a coincidence, why isn't there an effort to be a little bit more sensitive about this? Let's discuss this all with Robert Pape. He's a professor of political science at the University of Chicago. And we have with us CNN political commentator and editor-in-chief of the Dispatch, Jonah Goldberg, who coincidentally wrote a column about this in his G-file yesterday. Professor Pape, let me start with you. You've What do you think is behind these memes? How much plausible deniability do you give the Trump administration?

1:05:28Well, Jake, I studied extremist propaganda for decades. I spent years working with the FBI on ISIS. And I have never seen anything like this coming from an official government organization. You are right that this has white supremacy, Western chauvinism. I think, though, that what an expert would tell you is what they're really doing is borrowing from the Proud Boys. So I've also studied lots and lots of Proud Boy propaganda. And they, too, are echoing all of these themes, Jake. And so we can tie it back all the way to Nazi Germany, but I think more directly what's happening is they are marrying their website with ideas coming right from the Proud Boys, which are very, very, very similar.

1:06:25And there's a second element here, Jake, which is even more disturbing. You see, these aren't just simply passive, nice images that are sort of we don't like. They're emotionally charged videos on the DHS website that show ICE agents, often white, ICE agents in what you would call heroic battles against immigrants. immigrants and liberals. Now, the immigrants and liberals don't see it as heroic, but this is where I think they're taking a page, whether they know it or not, from ISIS. You see, what made ISIS far more deadly and powerful than Al-Qaeda was this emotionally charged images of violence against Christians and Jews.

1:07:16And what you are seeing here on the DHS website are over and over videos of essentially violence done, viewed as heroic violence against immigrants and liberal protesters. And this is why you're getting a violent force because this is who they're recruiting. So Jonah, we should know, like, none of this is happening in a vacuum. I mean, we all remember President Trump's, you know, refusal to condemn David Duke and all the rest back in 2016. But also just recently, there was this ICE attorney who was reportedly running a white supremacist X account. DHS told me he was suspended. And now the Texas Observer reports he's been seen back at work.

1:08:02DHS tells me his unemployment status is unclear. What does this all mean to you? Because you just wrote a column about this. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting perspective from the professor. I see this more as, you know, we've all heard the phrase, people can be, it's not so much they're pro-Trump, they're anti-anti-Trump, right? They just want to pick fights with people who criticize Trump. I think what is pretty clear from a lot of the social media stuff, the Department of Labor images, you know, they basically scrubbed anybody who isn't sort of a eugenically idyllic 20-something male, right?

1:08:37White male. Yeah, it looks like eugenics posters from 1920s America or Germany or something. And the phrasing is very creepy in some of these things. And I think part of what they're trying to do is it's a dog whistle and a troll at the same time. The people who love this stuff say, okay, these guys are on our page. And the people who are creeped out by it, they say, oh my gosh, this is Nazi this, this is Nazi that. And they use that as a way to see, say, these guys are anti-white. These guys aren't for traditional America. These are Norman Rockwell pictures. It's a gestalt that they are trying to merge with patriotism in a way that triggers a lot of people, and that serves their purposes.

1:09:17The other point I would say is, we know that J.D. Vance, the vice president, came out and defended a whole bunch of what he called kids. Even though they were up to 40 years old. Yeah. These are serious middle management people in conservatism in the Republican Party, and said it's no big deal that they're telling Holocaust jokes and that one of them says, I love Hitler, and another one says, rape is epic in these private chats. But at the same time, Vance and people like him are saying, we need to have a big tent for people like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes and people who like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes and people who bait Jews all the time, but we really got to get the neocons out of the party, right?

1:09:59It is a big tent in a way that is basically anti-anti-Nazi. Like, you can espouse fondness for these ideas, sympathy for these ideas, and be part of the coalition. But if you're offended by it, it's a signal, get out. We don't need you anymore. Very interesting. Jonah Goldberg, Robert Pape, I could talk for an hour about this. Thanks so much for joining us. Coming up next here, the White House explanation for new comments from President Trump when he suggested that the United States should not have midterm elections in November. They're not needed. That's next.

1:10:33Back in our politics lead today, White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt appeared to blame Democrats entirely for the growing tensions in Minneapolis. Look at this vehicle. Look at what it says. It says F ICE. You have these individuals who are putting their middle finger proudly so at the camera. Another ICE individual, a vehicle that was vandalized last night by these left wing agitators. People don't do this without encouragement from people in power who make them feel like it's okay. Here to discuss is the panel, but before we get started, I do want to note in a conversation in our panel in the last hour, one of our Democratic panelists said that Senator Mitch McConnell had had a stroke and McConnell's office reached out and said, that's not true.

1:11:16We regret the error. But moving on, sure, Michael, have you heard any Democrats encourage violence explicitly? I've heard people say, put your bodies on the line. I've heard people say you got to do whatever you think is necessary to protect your friends and neighbors. Now, I'm not saying this is representative of every single person who may disagree with the policies coming from my side, but there are certainly some agitators out there who are going to take that message to the extreme. And we have seen some of that. You're talking about Democratic politicians saying that? Correct, yes. Yeah, Minneapolis.

1:11:48Yeah, and Paul, what do you think? Look, Minneapolis was peaceful. Crime was way down. Things were going great in Minneapolis until Donald Trump instigated this violence. He is looking for an excuse to invoke the Insurrection Act. We know from his first term he wanted to from people who've written books about his first term. Not during the insurrection, though, after the George Floyd thing. Right, after George Floyd. Right. There was, I'm old enough to remember there actually was January 6, 2021, an actual insurrection. Trump was president. He did nothing to protect those poor cops. But after the George Floyd thing.

1:12:18Right. 140 cops injured. Several lost their lives. He did nothing. But now, but now, he seems hell-bent on instigating this violence. I have to say, irony has died a long time ago. But good night, nurse. When you work for Donald Trump, who two days ago shot the bird at one of his citizens and mouthed a really foul epithet, and now Ms. Levitt is getting the vapors because American citizens are criticizing their government. That's the way it's supposed to be, by the way. I don't approve that language in public. But good night. If you can't say, I don't like my government, you know, you're not. That's America.

1:12:57You go to Russia. It is America. And I agree 100 percent. But what people should not do, they shouldn't be destructive. They shouldn't impede potential. They shouldn't shoot a kindergarten mom in the face. And I think that's a part of the problem here. And I agree with you that leaders should be held to a higher standard regardless of what side you're on. I think there's criticism that should be called out when warranted. I agree with all of those things, Paul. But we have a process in this country when people disagree with their politicians. You vote them out. You do what Minneapolis attempted to do by filing a federal lawsuit.

1:13:30Now, they didn't win that. But we have a systematic approach to challenging leaders who we believe are taking positions that may be opposed to what we think is the best way. You go that route. And we're seeing a lot of people who aren't necessarily doing that. And I reject that on my side and on your side. There's nothing more American than protesting your government peacefully. There we go. Peaceful protest. What Mr. Trump is doing, he's sending in armed men. You know guns. They're carrying AR-556s, okay? These are automatic weapons. It's a caliber. Yes, but they're carrying assault weapons. They're masked.

1:14:04They're in unmarked cars. They're dragging people, some citizens, some not, out of their... And they shot that kindergarten mom in the face whose last words were, I'm not mad at you. An ICE officer, we've seen the tape, shot that woman in the face and then called her an effing B word. So this is not an even-steven thing. People are going to get upset. I'm upset. But you know what the approach is moving forward? The president was elected on two issues, the economy and immigration. Right. Now, maybe some folks may not like the directive coming from the executive in terms of how we're going about it.

1:14:33But you know what I think the strategic thing to do here is pair ICE with state and local law enforcement. They know where people are who are in the country illegally. They have far more experience dealing with the general community, including people who may be a little crazy. They know how to handle those folks. Allow local law enforcement, state to deal with that. While ICE moves forward with the directives coming from the president, that way you avoid these types of situations going forward. But the efficacy of it moves in a way that people would applaud. So, Paul, just to follow up on the points your Michael made, Minneapolis is a sanctuary city.

1:15:08Minnesota is not a sanctuary state, but Minneapolis is a sanctuary city. They do not cooperate with federal immigration enforcement as a matter of policy. So that won't happen. I'm sure we all three reasonable folks here at the table would agree that there should be a partnership. Oh, absolutely. But by by by proclamation, Minneapolis will not do that. Right. Years ago, when Democratic cities started saying this, I criticized that probably on your show. And I heard from some of these mayors. They make a good point. I still think that we should have one federal immigration law and cities should be obligated to help enforce it.

1:15:40I do. So I haven't changed my position on that. But the mayor's made a good point, which is the heart of policing in a city or anywhere is community policing. And if you if you they believe if you seem to be on the side of ice, you will lose the support of your community. The truth is community will tell you who the bad guys are. The immigrants will tell you. They say, hey, Sam over there beats his wife. Why don't you haul him and send him back to Venezuela? Right. So I do think we need to lower the temperature. Mr. Trump seems uninterested in doing that. Governor Walz, God bless him, is calling on people to calm down.

1:16:12The mayor of Minneapolis, heartbroken as he is, is trying to calm things down. Donald Trump and his folks are ratcheting up. They seem to want more tension and more violence. I don't know why. And I don't want that as a conservative. I do want people to be calm. I want cooler heads to prevail. But I do want places like Minnesota and others to cooperate with the federal government as it pertains to immigration. They did so when President Obama was in office. He was the quote-unquote deporter-in-chief, which I think is a ludicrous moniker. But nevertheless, they cooperated. Why can't we do the same thing now so that we do keep people safe, so that we aren't unfairly violating people's constitutional rights?

1:16:50President Obama said, let's target the gangbangers, not the grandmas. And he did. And he did deport more people in his term than Trump did in his first term. I have to acknowledge that he did. But he targeted law enforcement on bad guys. Trump is stopping innocent people in the street, Mr. Trump's ICE agents. Sure. Obviously, he's not doing it personally. But what he is doing, it seems to me as a citizen, unrelated to who is violent and dangerous and wholly related to who is black and brown. I think that's his agenda here. And if you listen to some of his supporters, that's what they seem to be saying.

1:17:23Isn't it true? And I'm about to open up a whole other issue. But like, isn't it true that this surge of ICE troops followed the outcry about all that fraud committed in Minnesota, at least a billion dollars, if not many more billions. Yeah, like nine billions, estimated. And all this conservative anger and ire about the Somali community, some of whose members, a minority of whose members, played a role in all that fraud. Look, I don't want fraud coming from any community. No one does. People in this country work very, very hard, and they want every single dollar to be accountable. We have a DOJ.

1:17:54They can work with the state. They know how funds are dispersed. Figure out who receives certain funds, do forensics, accounting of their bank accounts, and put those people in jail. Yeah, the lead prosecutor in Minnesota who was leading that charge, the acting U.S. attorney, resigned, obviously, because of all this. Anyway, we're not going to resolve this right now. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. Good news today for anyone looking to buy a home, something that hasn't happened since the fall of 2022. That's next.

1:18:24Our lastly, starting our national lead, where a fast-moving snowstorm is affecting the Midwestern United States. Reduced visibility from snow and wind caused a 30-vehicle pileup in Indiana yesterday. The Northeast also is feeling low temperatures today, with a few inches of snow expected to fall on Saturday. Heavier snowfalls are forecast for the Great Lakes area, of course. And our money lead, mortgage rates are now at their lowest level since September 2022. According to Freddie Mac, the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate is just over 6 % as of today. Earlier this month, President Trump called for the purchase of$200 billion in mortgage bonds to try and push borrowing rates lower.

1:19:01Experts hope this drop could help ease the housing market's stalemate. In our politics lead, the rebranding of the Department of Defense as the Department of War, which is what it was called during World War II, that rebranding could cost somewhere between$10 and$125 million. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the money would be largely used to update signage and letterheads and websites. The CBO stated the cost estimates are uncertain because the Department of Defense has yet to provide exact details of the plan. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, ThreadsX, Blue Sky, and on the TikTok at Jake Tapper.

1:19:37You can follow the show on X and on Instagram at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can watch the entire show on the CNN app. Erin Burnett out front starts now. Take it away, Erin.

1:20:16specifically at addressing women's unique health needs. These tools and services are sometimes known as femtech, and they can provide big opportunities and benefits, but they can also come with some risks. To walk us through all of this, I spoke with Bethany Corbin. Bethany is an attorney and CEO of Fem Innovation, where she advises startups, clinicians, and healthcare organizations. In my opinion, what it really does is gives us a collective language to talk about women's healthcare innovation and the tools that are out there so that we can take control of our healthcare experiences and know how to advocate for ourselves in a system that's probably not been designed to advocate for us.

1:20:54Listen to CNN's Terms of Service wherever you get your podcasts.