Former President Clinton On Epstein: “I Did Nothing Wrong”

20:52Jake Tapper:We're more than a year since that settlement, since that resolution. Do you feel the school district has improved? Unfortunately, I do not. I think that we still continue to see issues. We continue to get reports from families. Some of those families, who did not wish to go on camera for fear of retribution, tell CNN they feel the district did not take the concerns seriously and that the anti-Semitism has gotten worse. It doesn't surprise me in the least bit. I don't think that all of the blame falls on the district. I think some of the blame falls on the lack of federal enforcement. Beth Gelman-Beer was with the Philadelphia Office for Civil Rights at the DOE for 18 years and led the office for the past three years.

21:34Jake Tapper:She conducted the investigation into the school district and was in charge of making sure Philadelphia schools followed their agreement. That is, until the Department of Education, under the new Trump administration, eliminated both her position and the entire Philadelphia office. I was in the middle of reviewing the school district of Philadelphia's revisions to their policies and procedures when I got eliminated. that was left hanging as far as I understand. The problem not limited to Philly. Late last year, the House Committee on Education and Workforce opened an investigation into three school districts, including Philadelphia's, alleging in Philly, quote, anti-Semitic incidents have continued to proliferate since the resolution agreement.

22:21Jake Tapper:It breaks my heart because it feels to me like a broken promise that, you know, we went in and we did that investigation, we made findings and we secured this really robust comprehensive agreement. And had we been able to follow through on it, we would have seen change. In response to an interview request with the district superintendent, a spokesperson responded saying, quote, the school district of Philadelphia wants to unequivocally reaffirm our commitment to ensuring that every student, family and staff member feels safe, respected and welcome in our schools. The statement continued in part saying, anti-Semitism, like all forms of hatred or discrimination, has no place in our schools.

23:00Jake Tapper:The district has been actively implementing the terms of the voluntary resolution agreement with the Department of Education and is cooperating with the House Committee's inquiry. This building's from 1928. Rabbi Jill Maderer leads the largest Jewish congregation in Philadelphia and knows the concerns of the community. Regardless of the lack of federal enforcement, she feels the district should proactively do more. I would like to see institutions respond to this reality of anti-Semitism with an acknowledgement that they need to expand their capacity in their work. I've heard Jewish families who want to believe our school district and our society can do better, and I've heard families who are committed to staying present and being a part of the community.

23:48Jake Tapper:Why is that important? I think it's important that Jews are not hiding. I think it's important that no identity feels that it needs to hide. Now, we reached out to the Department of Education to ask them if shutting down the Philly Office of Civil Rights basically impacted the progress of holding the district accountable when it comes to anti-Semitism. They did not have any comment on this story, but they did note that workflows continue in other regional offices. But as you can see there, Jake, a lot of parents and community members still feel like the anti-Semitism problem has not improved. Plus, that former head of the Philly Office of Civil Rights, she said that a lot of these offices were already overworked before their office was eliminated.

24:30Bill Clinton:Danny, thank you so much for your great reporting here. Really appreciate it. It is down to the wire in Texas with Senate primaries that are proving to be a major test for both parties. Could we see some upsets come Tuesday night? That story's next.

24:48Jake Tapper:Have I got news for your ears? The podcast. I am your host, Michael Ian Black. If you look at the favorability ratings in 20 years, Trump will be lower than Gacy. Because Trump destroyed so many more lives than Gacy. What's Gacy's body count? 60? Yeah, something maybe. I mean, Trump blows up that many in a boat on the weekend. That's right. That's what he's doing. Everything's so hard to keep track of. That's why shows like Have I Got News for You exists. Oh, right to camera. Have I Got News for Your Ears releases new episodes every Wednesday. Don't miss an episode. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

25:26Bill Clinton:In our politics lead, cue the election music, please. Por favor. There it is. We are four days. There it is. Okay. We're four days away from the Texas primaries, which could shake up the political direction for both Democrats and Republicans. And naturally, journalists have come to Texas, in addition to the Texas journalists, to report on all the candidates. That includes Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, who is running for the U.S. Senate in the Democratic primary. One journalist, however, Elaine Godfrey of The Atlantic magazine, says that she was thrown out of one of Congresswoman Crockett's rallies.

26:04Bill Clinton:And Godfrey published this article yesterday, quote, why I got thrown out of a Jasmine Crockett rally. Now, a day before that, Crockett told CBS News that no journalist had been thrown out of her rally. Oh, really? Well, Godfrey just released the audio, and here is the moment after a woman with a badge told Godfrey that Crockett's team wanted her to leave.

26:28Jake Tapper:Why are you asking me to leave? They just said Elaine from Atlantic, white girl with a hat and notepad. She's interviewing people in the crowd. She's a top-notch hater and will spin. She needs to leave.

26:39Bill Clinton:Top notch hater. Elaine Godfrey from The Atlantic joins us now. Elaine Crockett also told CBS News that there's no evidence a journalist was thrown out of her event, that there is a specific history with a history of being less than truthful, she says. Now, when it comes to being less than truthful, your article is evidence. Your claim is evidence. The audio is evidence. Did anyone else see what happened? And how can Congresswoman Crockett continue to say that there's no evidence when there's quite a bunch?

27:14Jake Tapper:I don't know, Jake. It's a very weird situation that I have never found myself in. A lot of people saw it. There were a bunch of guests or a bunch of attendees at the rally waiting to take pictures with her. A bunch of staff, obviously all the security guards who walked me out. Um, so I, I mean, I think no reporters actually saw it because they were in a scrum with her at the time, um, that I had not been allowed to join. So, um, yeah, lots of witnesses. It's very strange that she's denying this happened, but I've got receipts. So.

27:49Bill Clinton:So I remember I'm old enough to remember in 2000, a hot mic caught then governor soon to be president, George W. Bush pointing out a New York Times reporter in the crowd and turning over to, turning to Dick Cheney and saying, there's so-and-so from the New York Times major league asshole. I'm quoting, so don't get mad at me, folks. But they didn't kick him out of the rally. They didn't kick him out. So do you have any idea what Crockett's team was objecting to? Your coverage has been, of all politicians, analytical, critical, edgy at times, but what's with top-notch hater? Do you have any idea?

28:35Yeah.

28:35Jake Tapper:I mean, I think it's pretty clear. She is referring to me, referring to a story that I wrote of her back in summer of last year. I wrote a profile of her that she didn't really, she didn't like how it was going. She called me a few days before it was published and she said, she said, I'm upset that you've reached out to members of Congress to do this profile. You haven't asked for permission to do that. She said, I'm revoking permissions for this story, and I'm shutting it down. That is obviously not how journalism works. So we published the story anyway. You can read it at theatlantic.com under my byline.

29:13Jake Tapper:But yeah, I think she's still upset about that story, even though I think it was a pretty fair story. I think it was good. I'm biased, of course. But yeah, I think she's still upset about that. But, you know, she can call me a hater. It's the being kicked out that doesn't work for me. Right.

29:33Bill Clinton:No, exactly. Elaine Godfrey, keep doing the great journalism. I read that profile last summer. I mean, you're a journalist. We're not supposed to be writing fluffy stories about people who are pursuing power. Thanks so for joining us. Appreciate it.

29:49Jake Tapper:Thanks for having me.

29:51Bill Clinton:Moments go oversight. Republicans came out to speak about their questioning of former president Bill Clinton today. Let's listen.

30:00Jake Tapper:The position of a former president Clinton has concluded. I want to thank everyone for braving the cold and staying out here. I know it's been a very long day. We believe this was a very productive deposition. I will have to say that president Clinton answered every question or attempted to answer every question. We can talk about some of his answers in more detail. And I'm sure once the video is released and the transcripts released, not only will you, but a lot of people in America will have more questions about some of the answers that were given and where we go from here. But with respect to today, this was a long process.

30:40Jake Tapper:And I want to say this was historical. I believe that in the history of Congress, the two highest ranked officials to ever be deposed by Congress would be President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. This is a serious investigation. We will continue to try to get the truth to the American people and justice for the victims. But I think a consistent theme continues to persist throughout all the people that we bring in. Obviously, the government failed the victims. Justice was not served in Palm Beach when Epstein was first arrested. We're very concerned about that. We still have lots of questions about how Epstein accumulated so much wealth.

31:29Jake Tapper:And we will continue to bring some more people in and try to get answers. I'm going to yield to the other committee members. but every member of the committee participated both days and asked very good, very good questions. Yes, I want to thank President Clinton for being here today. He was here for a very long day. He did attempt to respond to every single question asked, even when his attorneys told him to shut up. He kept going. I think there's agreement, too, on everybody who was here on both sides of the aisle that we want to get to the bottom of this, whether Jeffrey Epstein was an intel asset or a honeypot operation, sex trafficker, prostitution ringleader, financier, Ponzi schemes, financial crimes, etc.

32:12Jake Tapper:There is an effort, I believe, and a belief that we need to get to the bottom of this because justice was not served in the Southern District of New York. It was not served in Palm Beach. It certainly hasn't been served for many victims around the world who are victims of this operation. I want to thank my colleagues on both sides of the aisle for their questions today. Representative Sandsbury had a lot of courageous questions. She showed bravery today. She and I never get along. Sometimes, in fact, we've seen arguing and oversight. But I say that because this is a place that is not partisan.

32:44Jake Tapper:This is a place where the country is seeing Republicans and Democrats work together to figure this out, find the truth, and try to come up with solutions so that when this happens, women are believed, men are prosecuted, their abuses are prosecuted, and justice can be seen and can be done. And I want to thank everyone for their hard work. I think I can't say anything about the questions and answers today or yesterday. But I will comment that I believe you'll see some inconsistencies in some of the responses. I brought that to the forefront this afternoon. Thank you. I'd like to close by saying that we do intend to follow up and bring in, and I know that that's up to the chairman's discretion, some of the co-conspirators that were given lesser sentences that were known to have trafficked young girls and acceptable.

33:36Jake Tapper:There's a difference between a victim and someone who engaged in prostitution and the trafficking of minors, and that needs to be clarified. I will again hold to the same thing that I said earlier, and that I do believe, and I'm sure some people on this committee also believe that Jeffrey Epstein was an intelligence asset and running some form of a honeypot operation. I do believe that President Clinton, as well as the secretary, were potentially targets of that operation and we will leave it at that and I look forward to seeing you all react to the depositions as I think that this is information that's important and belongs to the American people.

34:11Jake Tapper:I want to reiterate what some of my colleagues said. I want to salute our chairman, James Comer, for putting together an extremely professional deposition these last two days. Factual, this was not a highly partisan event like most of our hearings are when we're in Washington. We were there to ask direct questions. I think President Clinton today was quite candid, probably more candid than his attorneys were comfortable with. But I think that this will, obviously when we release a video of this, I mean, you'll have the opportunity to digest it. But we do have to get justice for the victims because in all of the political food fight in Washington, D.C., what is getting lost is the fact that there are victims that deserve justice.

34:55Jake Tapper:Depositions like this are important because we need to get answers, need justice for the victims. Esteen and his associates committed unspeakable evil and I'm glad that President Clinton and Hillary came out here. What I believe I saw the last two days was selective memory. Very good details back into the 90s and in other times I don't know, I don't recall. So we'll ask. We have more questions to answer. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman. Can you definitely say that as a result of the former president's deposition, you now have more information that you didn't have before about his sex trafficking ring?

35:34Jake Tapper:And secondly, also as a result of the deposition, will you be opening any new investigations or new inquiries into specific individuals or institutions? Well, we're going to bring more people in. We're not finished. We didn't want to announce names before today. It was so hard to get the Clintons in, I didn't want to do anything to jeopardize losing them. I think we learned some things. We were hoping to get more, but there were many questions, as you will see, hopefully in the next 24 hours when the videos were released, that there were a lot of very specific questions about very specific documents and correspondence that were subpoenaed that we got from the Department of Justice as well as the Epstein estate.

36:18Jake Tapper:Many times the Clintons couldn't recall or didn't know or denied that they were pertaining to them. But I do think that we picked up some new facts. We asked both Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton where we should go from here as a committee, because we're sincere about trying to get the truth to the American people and hold some bad actors accountable.

36:50Jake Tapper:We've got one employee that does the videography, and he had to do the videography today too. So we're going to try to release those. Well, the transcript has to be approved by the attorney. So the video could very likely come out before the transcripts. Once the transcribers were in here, we had a whole team of transcribers. They're going to put it on paper. then both sides will get to approve the transcripts, then we'll release it. That's standard rules of deposition. We always do that. We will do that with the videos as quick as we can get them all uploaded and cleaned up, any background noise or anything like that.

37:31Jake Tapper:Then we will release them, hopefully, in the next 23 hours. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I know there's been, you've been asked repeatedly about Secretary Lutnick as well. While this deposition was playing out, President Trump said that Secretary Lutnick would testify. Have you made a decision yet on whether you're going to call in there? Well, we have a lot of questions about anyone who spent time with Epstein post-conviction, the first conviction. I think that's where, and if anyone disagrees, feel free to speak up, but I think that's where most of our concerns are.

38:05Jake Tapper:Once you knew Jeffrey Epstein was a sex offender, why did you continue a relationship so? Stay tuned. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman. Why do you think today was more respectful than yesterday? Was President Clinton more cooperative than the slogan? Well, you know. We were respectful. Yeah. I mean, you can watch the video and say, you know, everybody knows President Clinton. He's got Southern people skills. He's a charming individual, obviously. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman. Now, Mr. Chairman, you have said in the past that Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, were not accused of any wrongdoing connected to Jeffrey Epstein.

38:51Jake Tapper:After two days of asking them very tough questions in that regard, do you still feel the same way, that there's no reason to think that they're connected to any wrongdoing? Well, they said they weren't, I guess, innocent until proven guilty. We're going to go back and look at, there were a lot of, there were, the reason Ms. Clinton complained about being asked the same question over and over is because we presented different emails. different documents that would suggest that she was close with Epstein and Maxwell, and obviously she denied that. Now, we're going to go back and verify that to see if any type of perjury was committed.

39:27Jake Tapper:Chad. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, President Trump said today that he knew nothing about the Epstein files and he was exonerated. Do you agree that he is exonerated of this matter? From all the evidence I've seen, he's been exonerated for a long time. And would that preclude your committee if that's your position from your committee calling him? We'll discuss that as we move forward. Obviously, we've got more people to bring in, and we'll see if any new evidence arises. But right now, I haven't seen anything. Can I just say this? The Epstein victims have exonerated President Trump. This is a trope that you guys are a rabbit hole.

40:01Jake Tapper:You guys are going down. But he has been exonerated over and over again by Epstein victims. We need to get all the information on co-conspirators. We still even have the names of all the co-conspirators because the Southern District of New York is hiding that information by redacting those names. Can I follow up? Can I just follow up? Real quick, if I could also just add into that. Here's my question. Let me just follow up. If that's the case, though, you make the case, the chairman makes the case, about why it's so important to hear in great detail from both Clintons, but why it's not worth it in this time.

40:30Jake Tapper:If I can just elaborate. Bill Clinton was on F.C.'s plane, 26 flights. I mean, he had information with them for hours and hours. Real quick, Jen, if I can just add in, President Clinton, and you guys will all be able to hear specifically what he said, reference a 2002-2003 conversation of which he did not feel that President Trump had any wrongdoing in regards to Jeffrey Epstein. It's incredibly important that you guys see through the partisan nature of what has become this entire investigation. It's also important that you guys are reporting the fact that everything that we are seeing in these documents, to include what I presented to both the Secretary and President Clinton, show that Epstein was running an intelligence operation.

41:11Jake Tapper:He was targeting people specifically, and he was intentionally bringing in and using women to traffic in minors and then exposing vulnerabilities for different people. What I will also say is that, like Nancy has said and the chairman, there is nothing that we are seeing where there's criminal involvement or reason to believe that the president has any wrongdoing, and that is why we are not supporting this crazy theory in bringing him into all of this. We appreciate that President Clinton said what he did, and I will say that that has probably been, I guess, the silver lining in all of this. And I will say Secretary Clinton and President Clinton both offered, I think, suggestions, advice on where this investigation should go based on information they have, things that they've seen, experiences in their positions.

41:53Jake Tapper:And that's helpful to this entire thing. And again, this has been not partisan. We saw really great questions from the Democrat side of the Oversight Committee and the Republican side today. I was very impressed with where this went today. Nancy, can I ask, when have survivors said to you that they want Trump to be exonerated? Yes. Because they've never told me they want to see him take his back. No, I've never heard that from a single victim. When we met on the committee, the Republicans and Democrats met with, what were there, five or six survivors? And the attorneys. And their attorneys. Of course, the Democrats asked that question numerous times to the victims, and they all said they never saw anything or heard anything that Donald Trump did wrong, never saw him on the island or anything else wrong.

42:41Jake Tapper:And if I can just add in real quickly also, there was false allegations made against President Clinton, okay? We are not going to bring in people that were making false allegations against either president. That's not what you do in this, okay? We're looking for justice, and that's why we're going to be bringing in some of the known co-conspirators that were given plea deals, okay? That's justice. Last question.

43:09Jake Tapper:I have raised my concern for redaction to the Southern District of New York. They have a letter of the DOJ and the CIA. My advice to the Department of Justice is release the documents and unredact the names of anyone who wasn't a victim. And I think one of the issues we have, can you be a victim and a victimizer? That's a question that we're going to talk about as we move forward. Now, we look forward to seeing you next week in Washington. We will have further announcements of where we're going with the investigation. But we have two more depositions already booked, one with Jeffrey Epstein's accountant and one with Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer.

43:54Jake Tapper:So those are forthcoming. we'll probably announce some more people we're going to bring in prior to those depositions. But I think we had a good two days in New York City. I appreciate the Clintons being here. Wish it wasn't so hard to get them here. But as often is the case, it was more difficult than it should have been. But thank you all for being here. And we look forward to releasing the video and the transcript as soon as possible. Thank you all. from the maze. Can we have a follow-up question?

44:23Bill Clinton:You've been listening to Republican members of the House Oversight Committee. They obviously were discussing today's deposition of former President Bill Clinton. Let's bring in our political panel. Ashley Davis, to you first, what stands out to you about how the Republicans are characterizing the former president's testimony and also how eager they were to say that there is nothing relating to President Trump that so that it presumably so they shouldn't even investigate it.

44:51Jake Tapper:Well, I actually kind of feel, Jake, that what they're saying about President Trump and what they're saying about the Clintons are the exact same thing. I'm still not a believer that this was a good use of taxpayer money to bring the Clintons in. I mean, both Republicans and Democrats on the committee did vote to bring them in, but especially Secretary Clinton, I don't know anything that she's ever been accused of. And if Bill Clinton, if President Clinton is doing what he said he did. He stopped this relationship in 2008. He's never been accused of anything. So I think there's a fine line of just going down these rabbit holes of people being friends with Epstein before he was arrested the first time, but also actually doing something.

45:31Jake Tapper:And obviously it was a big coup for the committee to get the former president and the first lady. But I just don't, I don't, listen, unless there was some perjury thing that happened or something like that, I just don't know why we're doing this. Let's go after the people that actually did really bad stuff.

45:47Bill Clinton:Sabrina Singh, is that how you see it? Do you agree?

45:49Jake Tapper:I actually completely agree with Ashley. I think particularly when it comes to Secretary Clinton, what a waste of time, what a waste of taxpayer dollars to bring her in. She'd had never met Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, again, unless there's something we don't know about that came up in the committee, she released that opening statement that she'd never had any interaction with him. And so I think that this is just so performative and just becoming so politicized. And the reality is, I mean, and to Ashley's point, I mean, Democrats and Republicans did vote to bring the Clintons in, but I think they really should have focused more of their investigation.

46:22Jake Tapper:But the reality is, is that, and I think Rep Comer spoke to this, is that the DOJ still has not released the redacted names of some individuals that have been listed in the Epstein files. And that's really where the accountability needs to be on those people who either trafficked or were abusers, we need to kind of redirect our taxpayer dollars at finding the people who are responsible for covering up some really heinous crimes rather than focusing on the Clintons.

46:51Bill Clinton:Chairman Comer addressed whether video of Bill and Hillary Clinton's depositions will be released and how soon. Ashley, do you think there is enough transparency in this process?

47:02Jake Tapper:Well, I thought it was interesting that, I mean, the Clintons obviously wanted it public. They didn't care at all. But I guess in negotiations between the attorneys that this is what's going to happen. But yeah, I mean, there's going to be a video and there's going to be a transcript. So I don't know how you can really hide from that. So there is transparency. But again, I think we're losing the focus of what we should be focusing on, which are the people that did bad things, not were friends with him pre his first arrest.

47:29Bill Clinton:Sabrina, we know that the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, had claimed that he cut off all contact with Jeffrey Epstein in like 2005, 2006, somewhere in there. And we know that the Epstein files proved that that was not true, that he actually had lunch on Epstein Island with his wife and kids and Jeffrey Epstein. Do you think that they need to, the committee needs to call Howard Lutnick to testify?

47:53Jake Tapper:Yeah, I think absolutely. I mean, I think one of the members of Congress that was at the podium said, we're looking at everyone that knew about his crimes after he was arrested. Well, I mean, clearly Howard Lutnick is someone that you need to speak to about this, and yet he's not being called in. And that's obviously, you know, the president defended him today. I think they frankly also should probably be looking at President Trump and his interactions with Jeffrey Epstein. Not saying again that there's a crime here, but I think if you're going to apply the same type of scrutiny to the Democrats, then you also have to apply it to the Republicans.

48:24Jake Tapper:And I think Ashley's point is very valid.

48:30Jake Tapper:It's what's important, finding the truth, holding those people accountable. And we're not doing that with this sideshow that's happening right now.

48:38Bill Clinton:All right, Sabrina Singh and Ashley Davis, thanks so much for joining us today. Appreciate it. Thank you.

48:42Jake Tapper:Thank you. This is CNN Breaking News.

48:48Bill Clinton:Welcome to the second hour of The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper in Philadelphia. We are following breaking news tonight. Moments ago, the House Oversight Committee wrapped up its deposition of former President Bill Clinton as part of its Jeffrey Epstein investigation. President Clinton, who flew on Epstein's plane at least 16 times, according to a CNN analysis, says he saw nothing wrong and did nothing wrong. Today, he's facing questions about some of the photographs and documents in the Epstein files that were recently released by the Department of Justice as required by law. The head of the House Oversight Committee saying that the investigation is far from over.

49:21Bill Clinton:They have many more people to question. CNN's Annie Greyer is in Chappaqua, New York for us. That's, of course, where the depositions have taken place yesterday and today. Andy, tell us what you've learned so far about the types of questions and answers so far in the Bill Clinton deposition.

49:37Jake Tapper:Okay, sir. Well, Jake, we've learned that this deposition has wrapped after approximately six hours of the former president sitting behind closed doors in the building behind me, getting questions from both Democrat and Republican lawmakers who had a bipartisan interest in learning more about the former president's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. That is well documented. And we are learning from sources some of the types of questions that were discussed, information that was discussed in this deposition. For example, we're told the former president was shown the photo of himself in a jacuzzi with another woman whose face was redacted.

50:10Jake Tapper:And that image was released by the Department of Justice earlier this year as part of the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files. And Clinton said he did not know who that woman was. and he was also asked if he had had sex with that woman and Clinton said no. And that was not the only photo, I'm told, that the former president was shown of himself with other women. We're told there were several other images that the president was told to look at and he said he didn't have sex with any of those women. And I'm also told that former President Clinton recounted a conversation that he had with President Donald Trump back in the early 2000s at a golf tournament where Jeffrey Epstein came up.

50:47Jake Tapper:And apparently Trump told Clinton that there had been a falling out between Trump and Clinton, that there had been a falling out between Trump and Epstein, that they were no longer friends apparently because of something that happened with a land deal. So these are some of the details, Jake, that we are learning, me and our colleague MJ Lee are learning in real time. Of course, we need the transcript and the deposition to get all of the facts and all of the context around this. House Oversight Chair James Comer says they are working as quickly as possible to get that out. And now the Clintons want to do this in public.

51:20Jake Tapper:In fact, they didn't really want to do this at all. They argued they were being unfairly targeted for political purposes. They wanted just to submit written statements as part of this investigation. But House Oversight Chair James Comer persisted, said he wanted this done on his terms under subpoena. And ultimately, the Clintons caved under threat of criminal contempt of Congress. That's how we ended up in Chappaqua today. And there really was bipartisan interest to learn more about Bill Clinton's relationship. We'll see with Epstein. We'll see if lawmakers are satisfied. But what they learned today, they did say that the former president was very cooperative with the committee and answered as many questions as he could.

52:00Jake Tapper:But the question is, where do this investigation go from here? And Democrats say today's deposition really sets the precedent for them to try and call President Trump in for questioning. And there are a lot of people that Democrats want to talk to, including Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. Jake. All right.

52:20Bill Clinton:Annie Greyer in Chappaqua, New York. Thanks so much for your reporting. Appreciate it. Let's discuss this all with Democratic Congresswoman Yasemin Ansari of Arizona. She's on the House Oversight Committee and was in today's deposition with former President Bill Clinton. Congresswoman, good to see you. Thanks so much for joining us. Can you elaborate on President Clinton's answer about President Trump? because there seems to be some disagreement between the ranking Democrat and the Republican chairman about what he actually said.

52:48Jake Tapper:Absolutely. Thank you for having me on, Jake. First of all, it continues to be interesting because the rules of the committee set by the Republicans is that we're not supposed to talk about the details of the questions and answers. But since this has already been publicly litigated and started by Chairman Comer, I think he mischaracterized. You know, I know he said that President Clinton exonerated Donald Trump. This has been their new word that has been seems like a coordinated effort over the last couple of days. What I learned today that I do think raises more questions is this discrepancy about why Epstein and Donald Trump had a falling out.

53:26Jake Tapper:That is something that was discussed according to President Clinton. And again, that'll be in the transcript. The reason for that that he heard from Donald Trump back in the early 2000s was over a land dispute. And as we know, Donald Trump has given a very different reason over over the years and blamed it on Jeffrey Epstein taking away his staff at Mar-a-Lago. So I think more questions, you know, that's typically what has happened with each of these depositions. We leave with more questions than we had before and really demonstrates that this investigation is just getting started. I think Donald Trump needs to come before the committee as soon as possible.

54:07Jake Tapper:He is named in the Epstein files more than almost anybody else. And there's actual credible allegations of criminal wrongdoing, including the recent explosive investigative reporting by The New York Times and NPR that found that the DOJ seems to be withholding documentation in regard to FBI investigations of an individual who said that she was abused by Donald Trump when she was a minor.

54:33Bill Clinton:So I don't know if you heard the House Republicans on the Oversight Committee, their press conference after the trans after the deposition was over. But they said that President Trump had long been exonerated. They weren't going to call anybody who has accused him of any wrongdoing, Trump or Clinton, for that matter, because they're I think they called them liars. I believe they did. and they said that this isn't about Donald Trump and there's nothing there. Did you hear their response and their comments? And in any case, what would your response be to their declaration that President Trump is exonerated?

55:19Jake Tapper:I did hear that. And it makes my blood boil. Let's just look at the facts really quickly. So if Donald Trump, according to them, is exonerated, then why did Secretary Hillary Clinton, who's literally never met Jeffrey Epstein, come before us? And why did more than 10 of the Republicans fly to New York to talk to her? I mean, by that standard, Donald Trump should come before this committee. On top of that, there is no world in which Donald Trump is exonerated of anything. He's named in the files more than almost anybody else. He had a longstanding personal friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. They were very, very close friends.

56:03Jake Tapper:We have everything from the birthday note from the Epstein estate to now, again, explosive reporting that has come to light that shows that there was credible allegations from a woman who said she was sexually abused by Donald Trump when she was a minor. The FBI interviewed this individual multiple times and the DOJ is covering it up. Why? Why did the DOJ hold back those files? Why have they not shared that with the public? Why did Kash Patel lie under oath and say that there was never anything that he had seen that demonstrated that anybody else was part of the allegations? I think it's absurd to say that Donald Trump is exonerated, especially based on the Republican standards of what it takes to come before the committee.

56:56Bill Clinton:So so Congresswoman, you kept you keep calling the the allegations against President Trump in the Epstein files credible. That's a word that you keep using. There are lots of allegations against lots of people, as you know better than I. FBI 302s, which are basically just interviews with people who are making a claim, are not necessarily true. They're not necessarily credible. I'm not saying they are or are not. I'm just saying just because it's written down and put in the Epstein files doesn't mean that it's real. Why do you say it's credible? And is there any investigation going on of anybody that you know of in the Epstein files?

57:41Jake Tapper:First and foremost, I think that because of the fact that the FBI interviewed this individual multiple times, you don't do that if it's not serious or if, you know, the FBI was able to determine, you know, typically after one interview this, you know, this isn't credible. and the fact that there has been an ongoing cover-up. The Department of Justice has lost all trust, all accountability, and they have now been caught red-handed withholding this specific information from the public view. They still have not released it. They have provided no answers as to where this is. So I would say, first and foremost, release those files and we can take a look at that.

58:22Jake Tapper:And then we will have questions for the FBI about the conclusion of that investigation. And to your second question, no. And that's a problem. Like the entirety of this exercise is not just so we can have the files released just to have them. Right. We need to know we need to make sure that the DOJ and the FBI are investigating, again, credible allegations so that anybody who may have perpetrated or enabled the crimes is actually held accountable. That's happening in other countries, in the United Kingdom. Investigations are starting. Andrew was arrested. Other people are being held accountable as well.

59:01Jake Tapper:It's a disgrace that that has not started to happen in the United States of America.

59:06Bill Clinton:We should just note that President Trump denies all wrongdoing or any criminal activity as related to the Epstein files. Congresswoman Yasemin Ansari, Democrat of Arizona, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

59:23Jake Tapper:Thank you.

59:25Bill Clinton:I want to bring in CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Honig. And Ellie, the last time Bill Clinton testified under oath, you were probably in like law school or something. It was the Ken Starr case. You actually interviewed a prosecutor who questioned him back then and his lawyer who was sitting him during that testimony. Is there anything that we're hearing about Bill Clinton's performance today that surprises you?

59:45Jake Tapper:So 1998, yes, I was a first year law student. This was, Jake, apparently a vintage Clinton performance. And having spoken with the prosecutor who interrogated Bill Clinton back then and the defense lawyer, by the way, same defense lawyer who was with Bill Clinton today, I learned that what Bill Clinton did then and now is he prepares meticulously. He knows all of the evidence. He knows the exact lay of the land. He knows what he has to admit. He knows what he can't deny based on the evidence. And he admits essentially nothing other than that. And one thing I always remember that the prosecutor from back in 1998 told me, he said, look, I got to be honest with you.

1:00:22Jake Tapper:For the first 90 percent of that deposition in the grand jury, he was kicking our butts. We didn't get anything out of him. He was calm. He was in control. He didn't make any damaging concessions until he got a little too clever and uttered the infamous line. It depends on what the meaning of is is. And the prosecutor told me at that moment, I knew that videotape would come out and I knew that that moment would be what lived on. So we'll see. We'll get that videotape, according to Representative Comer, at some point in the next 24 hours or so. I'll believe it when I see it. But we'll see if there's another moment that's sort of indelible like that.

1:00:58Bill Clinton:In his opening statement, which was released to the public, President Clinton said he did not know about Epstein's crimes and that if he had known, he would have turned Epstein in himself. Do you find that credible?

1:01:09Jake Tapper:Well, there's no evidence to contradict those claims by Bill Clinton, that he did nothing wrong and that he knew nothing. Bill Clinton said he did not. I will say the claim by Bill Clinton that he had, quote, no inkling that Jeffrey Epstein did anything wrong. I do think a rational, objective person could have a question about that. Let's consider the timing. Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein had a relationship. 2002, 2003 was sort of the peak of that relationship. And it wasn't a passing acquaintance. Bill Clinton flew on Epstein's private jet over a dozen times. According to the SDNY's indictment of Jeffrey Epstein, that's exactly the heart of when Jeffrey Epstein was committing his crimes.

1:01:46Jake Tapper:We also know that Bill Clinton socialized with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. We've seen the photos. Bill Clinton clearly knew there were young women around. And so I think there's a reasonable basis to question whether he ever had an inkling Jeffrey Epstein might have been doing anything wrong.

1:02:02Bill Clinton:Democrats on the oversight committee say that the Clinton's deposition set a precedent for President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump to testify under oath as well. Is that a legal precedent that they're saying or is this just political speak?

1:02:16Jake Tapper:So it's not a technical legal precedent, but it does give a powerful argument for why Donald Trump should have to come in. The responses we've heard just recently, the last few minutes from the Republicans, I think, are unavailing. One argument is, well, they say Donald Trump never did anything wrong. There's no evidence he did anything wrong. That's not why you get subpoenaed, though. A witness gets subpoenaed. And as Representative Ansari just correctly said, if they're going to bring in Hillary Clinton, how do you then say no to Donald Trump? The other claim that Representative Comer is making is that Bill Clinton somehow exonerated Donald Trump in his testimony today.

1:02:48Jake Tapper:Again, we'll have to see that transcript. But people are misusing and overusing this phrase exonerate. There's no way Bill Clinton would be able to exonerate Donald Trump. At most, he would be able to say, I don't know of Donald Trump doing anything wrong, but that's not universal global exoneration.

1:03:04Bill Clinton:They also said that were House Republicans that the survivors, the victims had exonerated Donald Trump. And just to be crystal clear about this, the victims or survivors haven't exonerated anybody. They've made it very clear that they're afraid of naming names because they'll be sued or physically threatened. And so they're waiting for the Justice Department to do that job, not them. And I'm not saying they haven't exonerated Donald Trump specifically. I'm saying they've exonerated zero people. And obviously that includes Donald Trump. Do you agree with that?

1:03:38Jake Tapper:Yeah. Exoneration means you're clearing this person for all purposes and for all time. If any victim says, I never saw Donald Trump. I never saw him do anything bad. Okay. That victim doesn't know anything about Donald Trump or name your person. But we are way, we, all of us are collectively way overusing this phrase exoneration. That's not what exoneration means.

1:04:00Bill Clinton:Eli Honig, thanks so much. Coming up next, MAGA firebrand Steve Bannon was a big advocate, at least publicly, for releasing the Epstein files. But what is he saying now about the many, many mentions of his name in the Epstein files and the many, many examples of correspondence between the two, long after Epstein's crimes were known? That's next.

1:04:28Jake Tapper:Epstein is a key that picks the lock on so many things. We need to get to the bottom of Epstein. They have to go to the court and demand and unseal the sealed evidence in Epstein.

1:04:43Bill Clinton:So that's Steve Bannon in 2025. In our Law and Justice lead, Steve Bannon, the former top aide to President Trump, was among the many outspoken MAGA voices calling for the release of the Epstein files last summer. But now, amid this flood of Epstein-related headlines and questions about people who kept in close touch with him, a CNN review of dozens of hours of Bannon's show on YouTube, War Room, found that he has not mentioned the topic in weeks. On January 30th, the Justice Department published millions more pages of Epstein-related documents, including extensive email conversations between Steve Bannon and Jeffrey Epstein, who by then was long known not only as a sexual criminal, but an ex-con.

1:05:30Bill Clinton:The connection had previously been known, but so far Bannon has offered little public explanation about how he came to know Epstein or why he shared so much with him or emailed him so often. Bannon has not returned CNN's request for comment, but he did tell the New York Times in a statement that his relationship with Epstein was purely professional. Quote, I am a filmmaker and TV host with decades of experience interviewing controversial figures. That's the only lens through which these private communications should be viewed. a documentary filmmaker working over a period of time to secure 50 hours of interviews from a reclusive subject, unquote.

1:06:07Bill Clinton:Now, many of Bannon's discussions with Epstein, based on these emails, center on new populist vision and politics that Bannon desired to build after leaving the first Trump White House. In 2019, Bannon texted Epstein about ways to take down then-Pope Francis, Adding, the Clintons, Xi Jinping, Pope Francis, EU, come on, brother. Epstein had his own global interests, particularly the future of the then president of the UN, the Slovakian diplomat Miroslav Licek. In one 2018 email, Epstein invites Bannon to dinner and says Licek's, quote, government will fall this week as planned. Smiley face emoji.

1:06:50Bill Clinton:Bannon and Epstein seemed to be aware that their partnership was strategic. Epstein once texted Bannon, Now you can understand why Trump wakes up in the middle of the night sweating when he hears you and I are friends. Interesting comment. In 2019, as allegations of Epstein's trafficking resurfaced because of Julie K. Brown's series in the Miami Herald, Bannon messaged Epstein with advice. Quote, first we need to push back on the lies, then crush the pedo trafficking narrative, then rebuild your image as philanthropist, unquote. That's really interesting and definitely does not seem professional.

1:07:34Bill Clinton:The two were planning to meet on the morning of July 7th, 2019. The day before, Epstein abruptly sent Bannon all canceled. Federal authorities had intercepted him at a New Jersey airport. arresting Epstein on charges for sex trafficking minors. Now, since the release of these messages, the backlash against Bannon within the world of MAGA influencers has been building.

1:08:01Jake Tapper:That doesn't mean that there aren't people who engaged in egregious activity to try to rehab Jeffrey Epstein. That includes people who have not been indicted from Kathy Rumler to, yes, Steve Bannon, who somehow has gotten off scot-free in all of this, which is absolutely beyond me. It's all a good look. Not sure if there's anything criminal there, but it ain't a good look. It's not a good look for a lot of people, but it's not a good look for Steve. I mean, Bannon calls me all the time and sends me links and says, how do we do this? How do you put pressure on that? Hey, we need to get on this.

1:08:25Jake Tapper:That's Bannon works like 18 hours a day. I'm not defending it. I probably wouldn't have hung out with Epstein.

1:08:31Bill Clinton:Former Proud Boy leader Enrique Tarrio has called Bannon's relationship with Epstein, quote, extremely disturbing, unquote. But there is still no sign yet that Bannon has faced any significant fallout for his ties to Epstein. His show continues to air on the network Real America's Voice without interruption and has featured high profile guests since the release of these texts, including Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville, current Texas Senate candidate and Attorney General of Texas Ken Paxton, and White House Trade Advisor Peter Navarro. One Trump ally tells CNN that Bannon has a lot to answer for.

1:09:09Bill Clinton:And still another administration official says Bannon's audience is so big, he will likely survive any controversy. Just wondering how any of these people would react if a Democrat or a liberal had been talking as much with Bannon, I mean with Epstein as Bannon had. Interesting. Coming up, I visited the site here in Philadelphia that President George Washington and John Adams called home. There has been a legal fight over one part of it, the slavery-related displays there, we're going to take a visit to the president's house. That's next.

1:09:48Bill Clinton:In our national lead today, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania announced new legislation to permanently restore the slavery-related displays at a key historical landmark here in Philadelphia, where I am today, the president's house. That's what it's called. The former residents of Presidents George Washington and John Adams. Now, some of the material has been restored, but the legal fight over the Trump administration's efforts to remove these displays about slavery from the president's house. Well, that fight continues. I visited the site earlier today. A restoration at the President's House at Independence Mall, where visitors come to celebrate the founding of America, and most of an exhibit marking a dark chapter in our nation's history is once again on display.

1:10:38Bill Clinton:This is the site here in Philadelphia where the House of the President of the United States once stood. Presidents George Washington and John Adams once lived here. And these informational panels here and on this side of the wall tell the stories of the slaves who lived and labored here more than 200 years ago. Most of the panels are back up now that a federal judge has ordered them to be. Their removal sparked outrage from millions of Americans and from historians who accused the Trump administration of trying to sanitize an important but horrible part of American history.

1:11:14Jake Tapper:It was jarring to see the panels removed.

1:11:16Bill Clinton:I visited the exhibit with Timothy Welbeck, director of Temple University's anti-racism center and affiliated faculty in the Department of Africology and African American Studies.

1:11:26Jake Tapper:TIMOTHY WELBECK, It's important to reckon with the first president who owned nine people while he held the nation's highest office, and he held them in the place where we're standing. These people were Americans who helped to shape the fabric of who we are as a nation, and their stories are important and including in the broader national narrative.

1:11:42Bill Clinton:The Interior Department, which oversees the National Park Service, told CNN in a statement that it disagreed with the court ruling, forcing the panels to be returned, writing, quote, if not for this unnecessary judicial intervention, updated interpretive materials providing a fuller account of the history of slavery at Independence Hall would have been installed in the coming days. What do you think about that explanation?

1:12:05Jake Tapper:I'm a bit incredulous to that idea, especially because the administration has had antagonism towards telling of stories about slavery and just broader topics about race and racism.

1:12:14Bill Clinton:JOHN YANG, The exhibit tells the story of the nine enslaved people held by George and Martha Washington during his presidency in Philadelphia, documenting how they cooked, cleaned and labored in the household, even as the new nation spoke of freedom and equality.

1:12:30Jake Tapper:HERCULES POSEY, He was the president's chief chef. And so he was responsible primarily for not only making meals for the president, but anytime he was hosting dignitaries and official dinners and things like that on a judge. She served Martha Washington. She was a chambermaid for her. She actually freed herself. One of my favorite parts of the exhibit is there are footsteps that memorialize her courageous journey to freedom. Leaving the president's house took a remarkable set of bravery, considering the prominence of her owner.

1:13:01Bill Clinton:What do you make of the argument from President Trump and his administration that there's too much about slavery here, that this should be about what a great man George Washington was and not focus on the fact that he and his family owned slaves.

1:13:16Jake Tapper:This is the part of President Washington's legacy, and so we must reckon with that part of his legacy, particularly because we inscribe so much of our nation's values and his personhood. We should also celebrate the unfavorable parts of them, too, or at least acknowledge them.

1:13:31Bill Clinton:Standing in the shadow of Independence Hall, this exhibit serves as a physical marker of the contradiction inherent in our nation's founding 250 years ago, a country founded on the principles of freedom and liberty, all while slavery endured in the home of our nation's first leader.

1:13:52Bill Clinton:Last Friday, a federal appeals court said that the Trump administration could stop work on fully restoring the slavery-related exhibit at the president's house while this appeals process plays out. They halted U.S. District Judge Cynthia Roof's order, which likened the removal to the dystopian world of George Orwell's 1984. So it remains to be seen what exactly becomes of this exhibit. We will certainly keep watching. Trump's Justice Department is now going after five more states in its quest to get personal information about voters. Will those states turn over that data? That story next.

1:14:34Bill Clinton:We're back with the lead live in Philadelphia and right now the Law and Justice League because President Trump's Justice Department has been announcing it is filing lawsuits against five more states, Utah, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Kentucky and New Jersey across the river, for failing to produce full voter registration lists upon request. U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi calls the lawsuit part of the Justice Department's duty to ensure transparency and secure elections across the country. Here with me to discuss, Democratic Congresswoman Madeline Dean from right here in Pennsylvania. We're in Haverford literally right now.

1:15:09Bill Clinton:Is that your district?

1:15:10Jake Tapper:Right adjacent to my district. Adjacent to your district.

1:15:12Bill Clinton:Whose district are we actually in?

1:15:13Jake Tapper:Probably Mary Gay's. We're right on the border.

1:15:15Bill Clinton:Okay, okay.

1:15:16Jake Tapper:Mary Gay Scanlon, forgive me. Mary Gay Scanlon. Representative Scanlon. Yes, yes, yes, of course.

1:15:20Bill Clinton:So the Trump administration has now sued more than two dozen states to get this voter data. What's your reaction? why do you think they want this? They say it's just to make sure that only citizens are voting, I think.

1:15:30Jake Tapper:My reaction is, why do they want this? States are in control of elections. They have asked Josh Shapiro and Pennsylvania for our voter rolls.

1:15:41Bill Clinton:Shapiro's our governor, just for people out there. You're very familiar with the politicians today. Yes.

1:15:45Jake Tapper:Well, excuse me, forgive me. Governor Shapiro and the Secretary of State for the voter rolls. That is sensitive information. The Trump administration has no right to it. And the Shapiro government, along with the secretary of state for the state, have said no.

1:16:03Bill Clinton:And I'm sure you saw the Washington Post report yesterday about President Trump being urged by some of his non-White House advisers that he should consider declaring a declaration of emergency of some sort ahead of the midterms so that he can stop paper ballots, et cetera, et cetera. The White House is pushing back, I should note, and the measures listed in the 2025 draft of the proposed executive order include requiring hand marked and hand counted paper ballots, requiring voters to register anew for the 2026 midterms with proof of citizenship. This is from The Washington Post and restricting mail ballots to limited circumstances.

1:16:45Bill Clinton:The president says he's not considering this. He hasn't heard about it.

1:16:49Jake Tapper:He's hoping to eliminate all mail-in ballots. And as you know, there's a robust mail-in ballot system here in Pennsylvania that has really liberated people to be able to vote with ease and accuracy and securely.

1:17:02Bill Clinton:By the way, a lot of Republicans vote by ballot, vote by mail. Seniors, a lot of seniors are. Let's go back.

1:17:08Jake Tapper:Mr. Trump himself voted by mail. Yeah. Over and over again. So this is, and the notion of emergency, that is Mr. Trump's special word, everything's a crisis, everything's an emergency unless he has anything to do with it. And so we won't fall for it. And the Shapiro administration, the Secretary of State are doing everything to put things in place to continue to make sure that the state has control of elections and that each county does what it needs to do. But I need everybody to know that this president will do anything he can to interfere with elections, including this crazy SAVE Act and everything else, that could disenfranchise more than 20 million Americans by requiring somebody like me to make sure I come in with a passport or a birth certificate that matches my legal name now.

1:17:59Jake Tapper:It is an attempt to disenfranchise millions of American citizens. It has nothing to do with voter fraud. There is no voter fraud.

1:18:07Bill Clinton:I want to touch on something that might happen in the next couple days. We have no idea. A U.S. strike against Iran for not coming to an agreement with the United States on a denuclearization deal. President Trump in the State of the Union address said that Iran is, quote, working to build missiles that will soon reach the United States. Sources tell CNN that's not actually backed up by any U.S. intelligence. What's your position on potential strikes against Iran? MS.

1:18:34Jake Tapper:My position is I wish that the president would be honest and clear cut in terms of what his ambition is. He has two carrier strikes there. He has 140 airplanes there. He has 40 ,000 members of the military in line. This is a very dangerous escalation with absolutely no definition of mission. I'm a member of Congress. Article 1, Section 8 says that he must come to Congress to talk about any kind of an activity that would be connected with war. And what's even worse is the president hasn't gone to the American people to say what he's interested in. Is it about uranium enrichment? Is it about ballistic missiles, as you just said?

1:19:15Jake Tapper:Is it about regime change? Is it about democracy? Is it about protecting those protesters? He's given us absolutely no indication. I've just come back from Israel. I don't know that I told you this. I was in Israel last week, a week and a half ago. And I feel for the citizens of that region, for the Israeli citizens, who are constantly on tiptoe as to what might happen as a result of the United States' involvement in Iran without any definition or contact with Congress, which would be, to my mind, illegal. And so I have great empathy for people of the region. And the people of Iran deserve better.

1:19:58Jake Tapper:The protesters who fight for democracy in Iran deserve better. I hope the president and Mr. Whitcoff and Jared Kushner and most importantly, the secretary of state. I wish he would step up much more forward than Whitcoff and Kushner and have a much more sober conversation, both diplomatically and then with Congress and the American people.

1:20:23Bill Clinton:All right, Democratic Congresswoman Madeleine Dean of the Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Nice to be here in Pennsylvania. Thanks for being here. Of course. Coming up, tensions in the Middle East after the U.S. ambassador to Israel tells his staff that if they want to leave the country, they should fly out now. Our experts are here next to give us a reality check on the threat of war in Iran. Stay with us.

1:20:53Bill Clinton:In the world lead today, the big question as we head into the weekend, And is the Trump administration about to start dropping bombs on Iran?

1:21:02Jake Tapper:Well, we haven't made a final decision. We're not exactly happy with the way they're negotiating. They cannot have nuclear weapons. We're not thrilled with the way they're negotiating. So we'll see how it all works.

1:21:16Bill Clinton:Trump's comments from earlier today come as the U.S. Embassy in Israel announced that the State Department had authorized non-emergency staff and family members of Americans there to leave, quote, due to safety risks. The embassy added, quote, persons may wish to consider leaving Israel while commercial flights are available, unquote. A source tells CNN that U.S. Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee additionally told embassy staff if they wanted to leave the country, they should, quote, do so today. I want to bring in retired Air Force Colonel Senator Blayton and Wendy Sherman, who served under three presidents, including as deputy secretary of state under President Biden.

1:21:56Bill Clinton:She was the lead U.S. negotiator for the Iran nuclear deal reached during the Obama administration. Colonel Layton, CNN sources and Ambassador Huckabee's warning was out of an abundance of caution and there was no reason to panic. What do you think?

1:22:11Jake Tapper:Well, Jake, I think one of the key things is when you look at what's going on in the Middle East right now, We've got a preponderance of force that is highly unusual in the Middle East. So if you take a look at the map, we can see that you've got a lot of different vessels that are in our area here, especially in the Strait of Hormuz. These destroyers and other vessels are there to provide a lot of support for the U.S. forces and the U.S. ability to do that. But most importantly, we have the carrier, the USS Abraham Lincoln there. And that carrier is going to, of course, provide a lot of air power to the region.

1:22:49Jake Tapper:So, you know, looking at this, we have a lot of force there. But out of an abundance of caution, the ambassador in Israel has decided that some non-essential personnel can leave. However, that does not mean that they're under imminent threat at this point.

1:23:04Bill Clinton:Secretary Sherman, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, we're told, is traveling to Israel on Monday. Does that suggest anything to you about the timing of a possible strike? And what might be his conversations in the days ahead in that region?

1:23:20Jake Tapper:Well, one of the most interesting things about this trip, as you probably know, Jake, is he's taking no press. This is totally unprecedented. During every administration I've worked with, five secretaries of state, even on the most sensitive missions, there was press. And so it makes me wonder, A, if the trip is really going to happen. But secondly, if he's going, is this really to consult on a war plan that Colonel Leighton would know even better than I would?

1:23:52Bill Clinton:Colonel Leighton, if the U.S. strikes and Iran retaliates, what might be in their arsenal, Iran?

1:24:01Jake Tapper:So one of the things, Jake, that's in their arsenal, there's a series of missiles, and that's going to be one of the prime target areas. And when you look at the ranges here, there are about four of these missiles that have a range of 2 ,000 kilometers, which is a little bit over 1 ,200 miles. And what does that mean? That means that these missiles are really able to get the entire Middle East that's in their cone of operations and parts of Eastern Europe. And that, of course, is a significant thing. And that's going to be a significant target set. That's one of them. And of course, there's the leadership area, the regime.

1:24:35Jake Tapper:All of those things could potentially be targets for any type of U.S. action at this point.

1:24:43Bill Clinton:Secretary Sherman, the Trump administration obviously ordered those strikes last summer, last June, against Iran's nuclear weapons facilities. President Trump at the time said that they had been obliterated. Realistically speaking, as you know about the Iran nuclear program, is it possible that they were obliterated and yet Iran would today be so close to a nuclear weapons program that, or weapon that the U.S. would need to strike? Or is it more likely that they were not obliterated last summer?

1:25:15Jake Tapper:Well, I don't think they were obliterated. I think that the Iranians do want to try to reconstitute those capabilities. They have the knowledge. But I think what's important here, Jake, is that we are having so many different signals coming from the administration. Steve Whitcoff, the special envoy, said they were within a week of being able to do bad things. Then Secretary Rubio said they're not enriching right now, but they would like to. The administration has said they have, they're almost close to getting an intercontinental ballistic missile that could reach the United States. And we know, as you pointed out, that is not the case.

1:25:51Jake Tapper:It's not that they wouldn't like to have them, but it's not happening tomorrow. So the president has not made the case for why military action is necessary, why there is an imminent threat to the United States. He has not made the case. Congress has not endorsed that action. And none of us really know what the reason is that he's doing this. It's certainly not to protect the protesters. That issue hasn't come up for some time now, when in fact that was the original reason for getting into this at all. And a good one.

1:26:25Bill Clinton:Wendy Sherman and Cedric Leighton, thank you so much. We'll be right back. In our national lead, new data shows a mechanic shortage is looming over the air travel industry. Here's CNN's Pete Muntean.

1:26:38Jake Tapper:Taylor Hill is learning to fix jet engines, part of an aviation industry push to solve a worker shortage that could ground flights. To me, it's job security. Hill is one of 185 students in Cincinnati State's Aviation Maintenance Technology Program that's booming as airlines scramble for mechanics. So we have our gear up indication. Ken Rowling is a 40-year industry veteran who now teaches here. When we first got out in 87, jobs were few and far between. But nowadays, students are getting out, getting full-time jobs right away, right out of school. That's good. It's very good. Just released data shows 41 % of certified mechanics in the United States are over 60, with 45 ,000 expected to retire in the next decade.

1:27:24Jake Tapper:Airlines are now flying older planes longer, meaning more maintenance with fewer people to do the work. Delays or cancellations may become more common. And then aircraft out of service for maintenance will be more common, which will then again just lead to fewer flights and fewer options for the traveling public. So all I do is put this in here? Maybe a sign of just how badly mechanics are needed. they let me try it at the GE Aerospace Training Center, where mechanics get advanced training on specific engines. Oh, no turbine maintenance for me. I'm already dropping stuff. I even inspected the critical inner turbine for flaws using a bore scope.

1:28:03Jake Tapper:There you go. Keep feeding it, bro. This is the jet engine that I was just allowed to work on. It's common on regional jets that the airlines use for smaller routes. You've probably seen it before. And these are the fan blades that you've probably seen in the very front of the engine. There are 28 of these that we just took off of this engine, and they're balanced with the blade on the opposite side down to the ounce. You can see why aircraft mechanics come through here for extra training. About 4 ,000 of them pass through this facility each year. So this is the rite of passage for all jet students that come in and take this class.

1:28:34Jake Tapper:Instructor Jim Condon was so confident in my work that he let me autograph the engine. You think I did okay today? You did great. The industry is still decades away from solving its shortage. Kind of keep it as level as you can. But here in Cincinnati, mechanics in training are hopeful. They are on the leading edge of change. We're always going to need mechanics. I think it's a good career. Pete Muntean, CNN, Cincinnati, Ohio.

1:29:03Bill Clinton:Before we go, I want to tell you why I'm in Philly. Today I got a chance to visit my old grade school and meet with some aspiring 6th, 7th, 8th grade journalists there and also various kids ages 3 to 14. Such a treat. I want to thank the Philadelphia School for having me out this morning. And also, I got a chance to reunite with friends, most of whom I haven't seen since I was 11 or 12 years old. As Steve King wrote at the end of the incredible book and movie Stand By Me, quote, I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was 12. Does anyone? Aaron Burnett Upfront starts now. Have a great weekend.

1:30:13Bill Clinton:Safe. With Visu Steuer, now test it.