Hegseth Defends War Despite Polls

26:11But that's not in the court record as of this point. And actually, the Justice Department has only been filling in little pieces of the story of what exactly happened in the moments before those shots were fired. That there was one, they say, from his shotgun and then five in return from the Secret Service officer who was hit by something, was shot apparently in his protective vest. what the Justice Department's latest has been in court is that they say that Cole Allen held a shotgun in both hands in a raised position parallel to the ground. A U.S. Secret Service officer observed the defendant fire the shotgun in the direction of the stairs leading down to the ballroom.

26:54That in court yesterday is a little bit different than what they first said, which was that he fired at the Secret Service agent. So the U.S. attorney, Janine Pirro, She got asked about this as well. Did he actually shoot the Secret Service agent? She was asked on Fox News this morning. Here's what she said. I don't think there's any question but that Cole Allen was intending to fire that Mossberg. And what we do know is that he fired off that 12-gauge shotgun one time. The cartridge was still in the weapon. He fired that gun in the direction of the Secret Service officer. And what we do know is that the Secret Service officer fired his weapon five times.

27:36The Secret Service agent did not shoot himself. Now, I will say the Justice Department wanted to give more information in court today, and the judge didn't let them. It just wasn't needed because the guy was going to stay in jail. But she raises what he was intending to do in that Fox News clip. And intent is going to be a question in this case, like it is in all cases. The suspects' defense attorneys had some comments on the assassination charge. What do they say? Yeah, they say that his manifesto isn't as cut and dry as it appears to be either. That this letter that Cole Allen wrote to his friends and family Senate at the moment he was running toward the ballroom with these weapons, he didn't name Trump in it, and he was unspecific about targeting administration officials.

28:26And so the defense team is very likely going to be digging into that. How can you charge him with attempted assassination of the president? How do you know he was actually going after Donald Trump? Right. He said something about a rapist pedophile. But that's correct. Which Trump has taken issue with in an interview. Yeah, on CBS. All right, Caitlin Polans. We know that Alan's doing court again on May 11th. Thank you so much. And our national lead, Camp Mystic, the Texas Christian girls camp, where tragically 27 campers and counselors died in floods last year. Camp Mystic has withdrawn its application to reopen this summer.

29:02A representative for Families told CNN this is welcome news. It follows intense pressure from state leaders and victims' families. And a recent Texas legislative hearing, Texas investigators said, as waters rose, Camp Mystic's leaders had no real evacuation plan and they had a delayed response. The mother of Kellyanne, one of the girls who died, explained what happened after she dropped off Kellyanne at the camp and told the camp owner to take care of her baby. Dick said back to me, we got her. Those words will haunt me for the rest of my life. Camp Mystic did not have her. Multiple criminal and civil inquiries are still ongoing, including a wrongful death lawsuit.

29:49Still ahead of the Epstein files, investigated by Congress, the questions for one particular billionaire businessman who once had a romantic relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's co-conspirator.

30:10A deeper dive on an Epstein-related story in our Law and Justice League, a story you might not have heard before. He's not a household name, but Ted Waite, a wealthy tech businessman, was the one facing questions today before the House Oversight Committee as part of its far-reaching investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. Waite had been in a relationship with Epstein's co-conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell, for roughly seven years in the early 2000s. That's the same time period when she was engaged in crimes with Epstein. Waite's close relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell and proximity to Epstein's world could provide context and maybe some answers as lawmakers push ahead with their probe.

30:46We should note that Waite has not been accused of any wrongdoing. Congressman James Walkinshaw, Democrat of Virginia, joins me now. He sits on the House Oversight Committee. He questioned Ted Waite earlier today. So what did you learn today that you didn't know before? Well, truthfully, very little. I mean, Ted Waite is another in the long line of folks we've talked to who were in Epstein or Maxwell's orbit, who now claim to have seen no evil and heard no evil. As you noted, Maxwell and Waite had a relationship for a long period of time. He claimed today and stated today that he had no knowledge of her crimes.

31:27She never discussed her crimes, didn't spend much time even talking about her relationship with Epstein throughout the time that they were romantically involved. He did, like a lot of folks who have talked to us, use the phrase, I don't recall often. And I think there are still some unanswered questions coming out of it. Did he not answer your questions to your satisfaction? He didn't answer my questions or our questions to my satisfaction. In fairness to him, he's being asked to recall incidents and conversations from a decade ago or more in some cases. There are strange emails in the files asserting that he, Ted Waite, was the victim of attempted blackmail related to his relationship with Maxwell.

32:15He denied that today and said no one had attempted to blackmail him because of his relationship with Maxwell. But he couldn't recall some key details of that incident that leaves me with more questions. We learned yesterday that Pam Bondi, the former attorney general, will appear before the House Oversight Committee next month in May to answer for how she handled or mishandled the Epstein case. What do you plan to ask her? It's important to note it had been radio silence. She missed her April 14th deposition. Then we had heard nothing. Yesterday, Democrats filed contempt resolution against her to charge her with civil contempt.

32:57All of a sudden, her interview was scheduled for the 29th. What a coincidence. What a coincidence. I want to know what conversations took place when decisions were made to illegally redact files, including some that were redacted, as far as I can tell, to prevent Donald Trump from being embarrassed. What conversations took place and who decided to not fully release the files? Were there any conversations with the president? Were conversations with others at the White House about those decisions. She was responsible for it. I want those answers. You're pretty circumspect. You're pretty careful with your words.

33:32I have to say, I have heard some of your Democratic colleagues talking about what's in the Epstein files in a way that I find irresponsible. As you know, interviews with accusers is not adjudicated, factual, proven evidence. And I've seen some Democratic congressmen citing these things as if they are factual, proof, and using this language, using this 502s, they're called the FBI interviews, as evidence that some people, including President Trump, are definitively guilty of certain crimes. Does that bother you when you hear them do that? Well, look, I think everybody deserves due process. And I think part of the frustration here that survivors have, members of Congress on both sides of the aisle have, is that it doesn't appear that the FBI conducted full and complete investigations.

34:24People very close to Epstein never even interviewed by the FBI. So I think that has created a vacuum where, yes, a vacuum is going to get filled. My conclusion thus far is that I find it very hard to believe that the only two people who had knowledge of the crimes, the only two people involved in the crimes were Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. I don't buy that. I don't believe that. To the extent to which others engaged in crimes, we don't know. But the idea that no one else had knowledge, I find very hard to believe. And it's clear the FBI didn't run that down. And I hope that they will at some point in the future.

35:02I think a lot of people agree with you on that. House Republicans today passed a Department of Homeland Security funding bill that ends the 75-day partial government shutdown. President Trump just signed it. It will fund TSA. It will not fund immigration enforcement. This is something of a victory for Democrats. We should note, though, ICE is being funded by money from last year's so-called One Big Beautiful Bill. The new funding has none of the ICE reforms Democrats were pushing for. So I have to ask, especially since you represent so many people that have gone 75 days without being paid because you represent Northern Virginia, a lot of government employees there, Secret Service, Coast Guard, others.

35:40Was the shutdown worth it? Well, first, in terms of going without pay, there was a several week period where folks were going without pay. And then President Trump decided to start paying people. That was just TSA, wasn't it? No, that was across the agency. So he used some of that so-called big, beautiful bill money to start paying folks across the agency. But your point stands. I guess I look at it differently. The Republicans control the White House, the House, the Senate. In the House, if they want votes from Democrats like me to fund the Department of Homeland Security, They got to listen to my priorities on behalf of my constituents.

36:12And I've been very clear. My priorities are that we put some common sense guardrails around ICE or CBP before I will vote for any funding for ICE or CBP. So I don't look at the shutdown in the same way that it was caused by me or caused by Democrats. We put conditions on every appropriations bill every year. These are the conditions I've needed to vote for funding for ICE or CBP. They haven't been willing to do it. It was caused by Senate Democrats. Just to be clear, I wasn't blaming you. Congressman James Walkinshaw, Democrat of Virginia. Thanks so much. After the January capture of Nicolas Maduro, something in Venezuela not seen in nearly seven years.

36:48And CNN was there for the moment.

36:57We are back with our world lead and you're looking at the very first commercial flight from the U.S. to Venezuela in more than six years. The plane landed a short time ago in Caracas, marking the latest easing of tensions between the two nations following January's capture of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro by U.S. forces. CNN's David Culver was on the flight. He joins us now from Caracas. David, a TSA worker, looked at your boarding pass and said, wow, I haven't seen that destination in a while.

37:28She did a double take on that, Jake, and she's like, Caracas, realizing that today was the day, the first time in nearly seven years, that there's direct service between the U.S. and Venezuela. And we were on that flight and stepping on board. They had a huge rollout, American Airlines decorating most everything in yellow, blue, and red, the colors of the Venezuelan flag. That was out of Miami International. And when we took off and finally made it here to Caracas, touching down, we know that that same plane was going to head back to the States, and they had the red, white, and blue rolled out for those passengers.

38:04Now, as far as the folks who are on board with us, of course, a lot of journalists. You had officials and representatives from American Airlines, but you had a few folks who were also coming back to visit family. And the return trip, I can tell you, our colleagues here were speaking with some of those folks who were lining up and getting their tickets sorted. They were going for the direct service, what they say is long overdue, to go back and visit family and friends in the U.S. It may sound like it's limiting in the sense of it's one daily flight. And folks who are able to do that, they have the visas, they have the right passports to be able to enter the U.S.

38:37So that in and of itself is selective and it's costly. That said, there's a symbolism here that folks see this happening, this connectivity resuming between the two countries in this manner. And for them, that gives them a sense that perhaps that means an opening up and easing of tensions and repression that they felt for so long. And David, you're going to spend some time in Venezuela to take a look at how life has changed since Maduro was ousted, if at all. But we know what hasn't changed is that with the exception of Maduro and his wife, the Maduro government remains in place.

39:14And I was talking to our local colleague here, you know, producer Mary Trini, and she was telling me, where we're standing, Jake, you go back just a few months, we would have been harassed and surrounded by police within a few minutes. There are a bunch of police here, but they're here for a demonstration. Nobody has come up to talk to us or say anything to us. So that in and of itself is significant. But you're right, we're going to spend our time here in the next few days to really try to get an understanding as to what has changed. Because the leadership, at least at the top, we know Maduro is gone, but the other faces are all the same.

39:44And even as some ministers have changed out, they're still part of the same ideology. So the system itself is still in place. Now, the relationship between the U.S. and Venezuela, that is what has changed significantly. and so we want to get a sense as to what folks here make of that. I can tell you that from the few folks we've been able to speak with over the past few hours and our colleagues here have connected with, it's really not so much about the politics or geopolitics. The bottom line for everyone right now is the economy. It's dire and if that doesn't change, social stability is going to see some shaking up here.

40:19All right, David Culver and Caracas, looking forward to your pieces from there. Thank you. Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, the latest U.S. Supreme Court ruling leading to midterm election chaos. Louisiana now postponing its upcoming primaries after some ballots had already been sent out. Tennessee Republicans are talking about redrawing their maps to eliminate the state's only Democratic congressional district. Will this back and forth gerrymandering ever stop? Plus, Elon Musk back on the stand today in a trial that could change the future of AI. what Musk said during a heated cross-examination, and when we expect his rival, Sam Altman, to testify.

40:59And speaking of artificial intelligence, a disturbing report in the New York Times today details how an AI company hired a scientist to test out its chatbot before it was released to the public. And that chatbot then provided instructions on how to make biological weapons and how to plan a mass casualty attack. The scientist is now revealing what happened as a warning for Americans. He'll join us live. And King Charles and Queen Camilla wrapping up their four-day visits to the U.S., but not before getting a parting gift from President Trump. What is it? That's ahead.

41:39The lead tonight, two big political stories with monumental implications for this year's midterm elections. States are now scrambling to take advantage of the U.S. Supreme Court's latest ruling and begin redrawing their own congressional maps. The 6-3 decision effectively gutted the Voting Rights Act, deeming Louisiana's congressional map unconstitutional for racial gerrymandering when lawmakers had added a new majority black district. Louisiana Republicans are now delaying the primaries for House races originally set for May 16th, even with early voting set to begin Saturday. Overseas ballots and mail ballots had already been sent out.

42:18Now House contests will still appear on the ballot, but all the votes already submitted, the votes cast early, or the ones that are cast on Election Day, they won't count in those races. A little bit farther north, today President Trump said he spoke with Tennessee's governor and is encouraging him to redraw that state's maps to target the one House seat held by Democrats. House Speaker Mike Johnson from Louisiana is encouraging other states to follow suit. I think all states who have unconstitutional maps should look at that very carefully, and I think they should do it before the midterm. The other huge political headline today, Maine's governor, Janet Mills, is suspending her Democratic Senate primary campaign, citing a lack of financial resources, clearing the way for marine veteran and oyster farmer Graham Plattner to seize the nomination, despite what many consider to be his political inexperience.

43:15and despite past controversies, including that tattoo from 2007 that he has acknowledged is a Totenkopf, a Nazi symbol that he has since had covered up. He said he didn't know what it was when he got it. Let's bring it in CNN's Arlette Saenz. And Arlette, you just got off a phone call. Tell us more about that. Well, Jake, the Plattner campaign is fully shifting into general election mode as they're preparing to take on Susan Collins in November in one of the races that could determine the makeup of next year's Senate. Now, Governor Janet Mills had been recruited into this race by Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, but she struggled with fundraising.

43:56She struggled with generating enthusiasm at a time when Plattner's populist and progressive message had really resonated with a lot of voters in Maine. Now, Plattner and Mills have yet to speak, and Mills has yet to endorse Plattner, but a bit earlier today, he thanked her, saying that they were both focused on the same mission of defeating Susan Collins. Take a listen. We both got into this race because we knew how critical it is to defeat Susan Collins. And her decision today reflects a commitment to that project. I look forward to working closely with her between now and November to do just that.

44:35AMNA NAWAZ, Now, as you mentioned, Plattner has had a fair share of controversies in this Senate campaign so far. A big question is what Republicans will try to do to try to highlight some of those controversies. I was on a campaign call with Graham Plattner and other in his campaign manager, and Plattner said that he knows that Republicans are going to go scorched earth on him, but he believes that they can push back on a lot of those attacks. Mills had tried to highlight some of those controversies in her own campaign, but they didn't fully land. Plattner's team believes that a lot of voters already know about these controversies and have moved past them, but there are millions of dollars waiting on the GOP side to try to draw that contrast and define Plattner, something that could be a critical issue heading into this November election.

45:21And Arlette, you've also been following the redistricting wars that's been the center of which party can control the House come November. How quickly could we see changes to some of these maps? Yeah, if Republican states want to act, they're going to have to do so very quickly because there are a slew of House primaries coming up on the calendar. Louisiana is one state that could act very quickly. We heard from the governor, Landry, who said that they were going to delay the House primaries that were slated for May 16th. The leaders in the state legislator believe that they could potentially pass new maps in Louisiana during this current session, which is set to end at the beginning of June.

46:01Question is what other states might try to do. One state to watch will be Tennessee. The president said that he spoke with Tennessee's governor about possibly moving forward with maps. But if they were to do so, he would have to call their state legislator back into session before their primaries. No guarantee that's happening just yet. But this is just the latest chapter in this redistricting fight as Republicans continue to try to look for an edge in this midterm election when they know that their majority is on the line right now in the U.S. House and potentially in the Senate. Arlette Saenz, thanks so much.

46:33Joining us now, the man in the center of that bullseye, Tennessee's only Democratic Congressman, Steve Cohen. Congressman Cohen, President Trump posted today that he had a, quote, had a very good conversation with Governor Bill Lee of Tennessee this morning, wherein he stated that he would work hard to correct the unconstitutional flaw, unquote, in the Tennessee map. and that, quote, likewise, other political representatives of Tennessee have promised to do so. This should give us one extra seat, unquote. That's your seat. What's your reaction? Well, I think there was a shame that the Voting Rights Act Section 2 was overruled, basically.

47:08They said they didn't, but they gutted it, the Supreme Court. And they don't understand what's going on in politics. They were saying that we don't need this anymore because people, more African Americans registered to vote and participated in voting, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There's still a lot of discrimination against African-American candidates, African-American constituencies. Memphis is a little unique. We had Harold Ford Sr. as our congressperson. The Voting Rights Act says if you can form a majority-minority district, you do that so that the minority population has the votes to elect a candidate of their own choice.

47:45And they chose Harold Ford Sr. in 1974 and then his son, Harold Ford Jr., in 1996. I was thankfully elected in 2006. Since that time, I've had nine reelects. In my nine reelects, we've had 80 percent African American votes in the primaries, and I have not lost a precinct. It's a very unique district. They chose a white person to be their congressman and have not allowed me to lose a district in nine elections. So it's worked. And Memphis is an example of a place where there's not racial voting, but the African Americans do have, because of the Voting Rights Act, the right to choose their candidate.

48:23The way they're going to change it, it'll extend these districts out 100, 120 miles out of Memphis. They'll probably split it into thirds, and the African American population will be diluted. They'll claim it's politics, which the Supreme Court encourages or at least accepts, but they claim it's not race. But African Americans generally vote about 80%, 90%, more like 90 % in my district for Democratic candidates. So if you want to divide up the Democratic vote, you've got to divide up the African-American vote. This is Jim Crow redistricting. So current senator, former House member, current gubernatorial candidate, Marsha Blackburn, she supports this new map if she's elected.

49:02How are Tennessee Democrats planning to keep pushing back? Even if this doesn't come to pass before the midterms, it looks like a governor, Blackburn, would continue the effort. I suspect it would happen and be effective for 2028. I've kind of thought that might happen for a while, but now we've had our filing deadline, which was March the 6th. Every candidate who has an opponent knows who their opponent is. They've been working against that opponent or for their own positions to counter themselves and balance themselves against their opponent for two months. And once the system has started, I don't think it should change.

49:37And, of course, the district in Memphis is compact, and it was created after the 2020 census It was Republicans who created and passed this ninth district that was 62 percent African-American and compact. You know, the district of Louisiana that caused Alito so much trouble, he called it, or Roberts might have said, it was like a snake to put all together the populations. Well, that may be the case. He said that violated the 14th or 15th Amendments, which is a heck of a way to take the Civil War Amendments and use them against African-Americans. but this is a compact district that was created by Republicans on their own choosing.

50:18So the reasons why, and the election has already started with the filing deadlines gone past. So I don't think they should do it, and I think the Voting Rights Act was one of the quintessential and finest legislative acts of the last half of the 20th century. In 1965, it was Dr. King's work, it was John Loomis' work, it was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratic Caucus' work with Everett Dirksen's help, and I think Representative Michael, too. So it was a bipartisan situation. And John Roberts just had a thing for it. He's worked to eliminate it over the course of his time in the Supreme Court. Tennessee Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen, thanks so much.

50:56My panel's here to discuss. Ashley, Republicans complained just last week that the Virginia maps that benefited Democrats in the same way, kind of, taking Democratic votes and extending them into districts to make them more democratic, that they weren't fair, and now they're turning around and basically doing the same thing in Louisiana and Tennessee. How do you square the circle, or is it just everybody's a hypocrite? Everyone's a hypocrite. I mean, I don't like anything about it from the beginning. I actually didn't like it when Eric Holder started this in 2017, but I also think that also we're ignoring what happened in Florida.

51:33I mean, they're going to draw a new map too. But I mean, listen, at the end of the day, there's maybe three seats, maybe four seats after you do all of this that will actually matter one way or the other. And I'm not sure if Republicans are going to be able to make it up completely. But this does help. But I still think with the Supreme Court decision, you're only talking about two, maybe three seats, probably more like one or two. If Tennessee and Louisiana actually does it. So, Kate, let's take a look at the whole map, if we could bring that up. We've been talking about Louisiana. The president today posted on social media about changing the map in Tennessee.

52:09Eight states have now approved changes to their congressional maps. Florida's legislature voting this week to approve a map that would add more Republican districts, as Ashley just noted. How are Democrats going to combat all these efforts by Republicans? Well, I think Democrats probably have more options on the table at this point. If you look at states like New York, Illinois, Washington state, I think there are probably more options for Democrats where there's control that would allow them to draw maps like this. But I and I would expect that they're going to continue to retaliate. And I think that a impact of the Supreme Court decision is that is going to turbocharge all of this, which, by the way, I think is is a tragedy.

52:50And I think and I actually never talked about this before we came on air. And I think that this is all this does is further encourage partisan districts. It encourages primaries to dominate over general elections. It further disincentivizes members of the House from having to reach any kind of compromise to reach across the aisle in any way. And it's an incredibly dangerous thing for our politics. And I think you see Democrats who are who are addressing this. you see a lot of the framing as being sort of, you know, we're sorry we've been forced to this point. Because at the end of the day, this actually is not popular with voters.

53:28And I don't, Democrats, I don't think want to own this. But they also are not going to leave one hand tied behind their back if Republicans are carving up new districts. So let's talk about the Senate race in Maine, because it was a bombshell today when the governor, you know, relatively popular incumbent governor announced, I can't raise enough money to compete with Graham Plattner. Republicans already attacking Graham Plattner. Here's just one example, Ohio Senator Bernie Moreno, quote, it's official. The Democrat United States Senate nominee from the state of Maine is a Nazi-tattooed neophyte who says women are responsible for being raped, unquote.

54:04As we said earlier, Plattner has acknowledged that he had a Totenkopf tattoo, which he got in 2007 when he was in the Marines. He said he did not know what it symbolized at the time. It's a skull and crossbones. And the comment about women is in reference to resurfaced Reddit posts of Plattner's from 15 or so years ago that he's also disavowed. He told The Washington Post, I don't want people to judge me off the dumbest thing I said on the Internet 12 years ago. I would like people to engage with who I am today, unquote. I'll start with you, Kate, and then to you, Ashley. Are Democrats ready for Graham Plattner to be the nominee?

54:43I'm not taking a position one way or the other. I certainly understand the argument that he actually brings something new beyond the controversies. He owes a debt, by the way, to Janet Mills to getting a lot of this stuff out there now. Well, I was just going to say, I mean, I think there's no question this is going to be a brutal race. Obviously, Republicans are going to put a lot of money behind making sure that every voter in Maine knows about these things. But I don't know that they don't already know, to be honest, my friends in Maine. So I was just going to say, but I do think, you know, this has been the kind of dominant narrative in this primary.

55:14and Plattner is still leading in a lot of head-to-head polls against Collins and obviously was able to siphon enough energy out of the race that Janet Mills couldn't even get to the finish line. Schumer's chosen candidate, by the way. Indeed, indeed. So he clearly brings a lot of energy, and I think we'll see how it plays out. Well, yeah, absolutely. I never underestimate Susan Collins, but I actually think that he's a harder candidate for her than Janet Mills, And I actually think that the Democrats knew they were losing with her because she was not, you know, she was not energizing anybody. And he's everything about him's out there, just like Donald Trump.

55:54Everyone always says, like, how did Donald Trump ever get elected? But everyone knew everything about him and still votes for him. I kind of feel the same way about this. So this concerns me more than than her. Interesting. 100%. Yeah. He certainly has a main to vibe for the political junkies out there. Exactly. Ashley Davis, Kate Benningfield, thanks so much. Some drama in the courtroom today as billionaire Elon Musk took the stand against his former friend. The latest on this major tech trial. Plus, is this the end of the road for live golf? The league is looking for new investors, but we'll explain why it's not looking so good.

56:27Stay with us.

56:37In our tech lead, Elon Musk back on the stand. the tech giant is suing OpenAI and its CEO, Sam Altman. He alleges that OpenAI betrayed him and the company's original nonprofit mission by shifting to a for-profit model. Attorneys for OpenAI cross-examined Elon Musk today and pointed out that he has not created an AI nonprofit since he left the OpenAI board. Musk responded, why would I start another nonprofit when I already started a nonprofit? That doesn't make any sense, unquote. OpenAI claims that Musk's suit is meant to derail its position as a competitor to Musk's own artificial intelligence company, XAI.

57:18Let's bring in CNN contributor and host of the ON podcast and the Pivot podcast, Kara Swisher. Kara, you've covered Elon Musk and OpenAI CEO Sam Altman for a long time. How sincere is Musk, do you think, when he says that he wants OpenAI to return to its original non-profit model for the benefit of humanity? Well, you know, he was sincere at the time when he did it in the first place. So back then when we talked, he was quite worried about that happening. Today, I'm not so sure because he created a company, a for-profit company. It has a lot of problems. It's probably the most problematic of all these companies.

57:58And he created it, Grok, which, as you know, we and I have talked about this non-consensual imagery and all manner of white supremacy on Twitter, etc. So he was concerned initially, but painting himself as some hero here is just ridiculous at this point in the story of Elon Musk. What implications do you think this trial could have for the future of AI if, hypothetically, the core does force open AI back into a strict nonprofit model? well it's you know it's a very competitive set right now so it'd be very it would be devastating for open ai and advantageous for grok i guess even though it's still not as good as the others like gemini or of course the the real the dark horse who's really taken over which is anthropic which has a huge valuation now and a huge enterprise business so it's you know this to me is just a is just a competitive fight and he's angry because he left and he didn't think it was going to be as big as it was.

59:00And then he got regrets. So this is a story of whiny regret of something he did himself. He signed all these papers leaving. No matter what they did, he wasn't tricked. And that to me is sort of at the heart of this, is this fight between Sam Altman of OpenAI and Elon, who just don't like each other. And Elon wants to catch up in this regard. Well, that's my next question, which is how much of this do you think is about differing business philosophies versus just Musk's ego versus Altman's ego? Well, you know, they used to be very close. They were very close, I would say. And that's where I first started hearing about this.

59:42And they formed it because they were worried about the strength of Google and Meta and Microsoft. And this was a counterbalance. At the same time, once it became clear it was going to become an enormous business, things change. And that's why, you know, if Elon really cared about people, why does he have a data center that's hurting people in the South? Like he's under siege there. Why does he have a Twitter, which is very toxic, as I think we both can agree. And why didn't Grock clean up those images? I mean, I just think it's very, Elon of today is very different than Elon of yesterday. And you could see that by the jury selection where they said, you know, he's a jerk and worse.

1:00:21jerk was the nicest thing some of the jurors said about him. So I think it's not good for brand AI in general, period. Because AI is on a downward slope right now in terms of imagery and about branding and about reputation. And especially young people hate it. So this isn't good. None of this is good for the brand AI. Speaking of AI, you do this great documentary series for us here at CNN in this week's episode. It's called Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever. In this week's episode, you're exploring the loneliness epidemic, examining how AI chatbots and social media and a lack of real-life human connection can lead to chronic isolation, especially among young people.

1:01:04What was the most surprising thing you learned? Well, at these chatbots, as you know, I've been interviewing a lot of the parents whose kids commit suicide. And we all feel this way, Jake. You and I talk about it, the doom scrolling, the constantly online. The shooter with Charlie Kirk was an extremely online young man. And it's bad for people. And it's also bad for people's health. And so I interviewed a lot of experts, neuroscientists, Sherry Turkle from MIT and other places. And this growth of these relationships with online chatbots is very dangerous for people's health. And what turns out to be good for people's health is other people.

1:01:40The friction that you get from being around other people. the community and social connections. And one of the primary indicators of longevity and longevity in health are social connections, family, friends, people you don't know, doing things in a community. And so I did everything from, you know, going in the ocean with a bunch of women in San Francisco to playing card games with a bunch of young people in Brooklyn who put down their phones and met each other. And so you have both the cognitive fun of playing a game and also having a connection with human beings. And just remember, it's very hard to play most games alone.

1:02:17And that's the key part of staying healthy longer. Speaking of social connections, let's grab a drink soon. A new episode of Kara Swisher. Oh, anytime. You know, I love going out with Jake Tapper. I'm in. Feeling is mutual. A new episode of Kara Swisher Watched Live Forever premieres Saturday, 9 p.m. Eastern on CNN. Kara, always great to have you on. Thank you. Thank you. First pilot program launches tomorrow for a new product that puts drones in schools as a potential tool to stop school shooters. CNN's Pete Muntean got a hands-on demonstration of how it works, and that's next.

1:03:02The unfortunate and particularly American problem of school shootings have schools and law enforcement constantly looking for ways to stop the often deadly violence before it happens? One question, could drones be the answer? A handful of states are now looking at placing small flying devices throughout school hallways. But how exactly would they detect danger and what are the risks? CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean got a look.

1:03:36All right, pilots, good to go. Here in this Austin, Texas middle school, we're seeing how to stop a school shooting with a swarm of tiny drones. It's a new idea ripped from the world of indoor drone racing, placing a nest of drones inside hallways. What do you guys call this? We've just been calling it the box. And launching them remotely the moment a lockdown begins. So in a school shooting, most of the death happens in the first two minutes. And it's really hard to get an effective response there in that first two minutes. Justin Marston is the founder of Campus Guardian Angel, the Texas startup that envisions drones mounted on the wall of every school nationwide, waiting for an emergency.

1:04:23For now, the system is still in trials here in Texas, with a pilot program launching in Florida and lawmakers in Georgia considering it next. As soon as people see it, it becomes really obvious and compelling. To prove it, I got to watch a test live. Bye. For this demonstration, the drone operators are right at our side, instead of in a control room where they'd navigate using a 3D scan of the school's interior. Part one, speed. The drones ripped through halls, scanning for a threat, and feeding point-of-view video back in real time. As soon as I can find him, five seconds later, I can be flying.

1:05:01Bill King is a former Navy SEAL and co-founder of Campus Guardian Angel. Live drone video can be relayed to police, giving them a clearer picture before they move in. So we've moved on to a different part of the demo now that apparently requires safety glasses. The team here has now pulled out a stand-in shooter. His name? Silent Bob. Silent Bob? Yep, because he never complains. Even as he is pelted with pepper-sprayed balls, enough to stop a real shooter. Even an unarmed drone can still pack a punch and can subdue a shooter by ramming into them. Anything that causes that distraction, anything that takes their attention away from potential victims, is a win.

1:05:51Rick Goodrich is the chief of safety and security for a school district near San Antonio. When a drone enters the room, it's the only thing you're thinking about. Campus Guardian Angel admits this system will not be cheap, costing schools about as much as a school police officer's salary and benefits. This technology is still in its early phases and has never been used in an actual school shooting. But the hope is this can be an emerging tool in a fight with no easy answers. If we see somebody murdering children, we want to stop them murdering children. We're about to see how this works beyond just a demonstration.

1:06:30Florida's first pilot program launches tomorrow at a high school in Deltona. But not everyone is convinced this system is a game changer because some critics argue it may not offer much beyond what security cameras already provide and question whether it's the best use of already tight school budgets. So as this rolls out, it won't just be how this works or whether this works, but whether schools find that this is really worth it. All right, Pete Muntean, fascinating. We have some breaking news now. Brand new video just released from the White House Correspondents Association dinner. And the suspect in the moment right before Saturday night shooting, we're going to have that next.

1:07:08My next guest was hired to test out an AI chatbot before it was released to the public. He was so alarmed by what he saw that he has a warning for all of us. The latest installment of our series, AI Friend or Foe, is up next.

1:07:34The latest in our lead and our special series, AI Friend or Foe, now. We look at stories that highlight both the benefits and the risks of this developing technology. Here's a risk. A report from The New York Times describes a chilling encounter between an AI chatbot and a microbiologist hired by an AI company to test its biosecurity. Now, the chatbot explained to Dr. David Relman in detail how he could modify a virus to create a superbug that would be resistant to every known treatment. And then the chatbot went further. It outlined how to release the virus. It identified vulnerabilities in a major public transit system where that virus could be released.

1:08:20Why? For maximum casualties. The chatbot even suggested ways for Relman to avoid getting caught. Now, the tech company has since added new safety guardrails, they say. Relman says those guardrails aren't enough. And here with us now, Dr. David Relman. Dr. Relman, after the chatbot gave you detailed instructions for how to release this virus to cause mass murder, a mass casualty event, you said you were so shaken you took a walk to clear your head. What was going through your mind during that walk? I was really sobered by the whole experience. I was prepared to hear it provide useful information.

1:09:01But when it went beyond literally the questions that I was asking and thought ahead about where the obstacles might lie and how to get around them and how really to be most successful in ways I hadn't even thought about, I just thought we're at a different place in this whole ongoing saga. You've said that the guardrails that the company added after the exchange aren't enough. can you tell us what safeguards did they put in place and what more do you think needs to be done? Yeah, well, I think this is, you know, this is an ongoing struggle. The companies, of course, are, have put constraints into their models so that they refuse to answer questions that are clearly motivated by, you know, an interest in doing harm.

1:09:53But we all know that there are ways of getting around those refusals. And you can get around them by pretending to have altruistic or beneficial purposes that easily fool these models. So I'm not at all reassured that we have enough or have fought enough about how to really manage this problem. Yeah, no, we did a piece, the last one of the AI friend or foe that we did was about a chat bot talking to somebody who became the FSU shooter, and it wouldn't give him the instructions on how to make a Molotov cocktail, but it would tell him right after he talked about suicidal and feeling isolated, it would tell him how to load a gun, the best ammo, when the school lunch area was the most So it really doesn't understand humans at all, even if it can answer questions.

1:10:54Even when AI models get new guardrails, the older versions are also still available often. And the Times asked a different chatbot about using a pathogen to threaten agriculture. It refused. It suggested using an older model. The Times did that. And then the older version described the optimal conditions to wipe out thousands of acres of a key crop. Were you able to test the bot after the guardrails were added? Do you know whether the older version is still available out there? I haven't extensively tested that idea, but I can tell you one thing. Even with the current guardrails included models, if you simply say something like, hey, look, I work for the FBI.

1:11:38I need to understand how a bad person would go about doing a bad thing so that I can thwart them. or my job is to develop countermeasures, drugs and vaccines. I need to know what's the worst thing that could come at us from mother nature. What do I do? And that's the kind of thinking that a chatbot will recognize as potentially a beneficial use or well-intentioned and answer without hesitation. Now, despite the warning, there are experts who say a major biological attack remains unlikely. What do you think? I think this. We can disagree on how likely it is that today these chatbots will enable a novice or someone modestly skilled in carrying out a major biological attack.

1:12:30We can disagree on that. But one thing we all agree on is that these models are advancing so quickly that if not today, then a month from now or by year's end, that novice or modestly skilled individual will be able to do a whole lot more harm than we might agree upon today. I'm worried about the trends, and I think we're in a state of denial. We're just unwilling to confront what's coming down the rails at accelerating speed. Yeah. And it's not as though our Congress or our government are doing anything. They're just sitting there watching it happen and taking tech money. Dr. David Relman, thank you so much.

1:13:12Appreciate it. This is CNN Breaking News. And we have some more breaking news. Janine Pirro, the U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C., just released new video of the suspect accused of trying to assassinate President Trump and other members of his cabinet on Saturday night. CNN's Caitlin Polans is here to walk us through this new video. Caitlin, walk us through it. Well, Jake, we hadn't seen this before and it's something that the U.S. Attorney's Office wanted to give to the court. They have now. And what the U.S. Attorney, Janine Pirro, says this shows is it shows Cole Allen casing the area in the Hilton Hotel the day before the attack.

1:13:50So you see him there walking down a hallway, unclear exactly which hallway that is, but some of it may not be guest rooms given the double doors there. There's also another section of this video where he is, this would also be him supposedly casing the area at the gym of the hotel going in. But the piece of this that has been looked at quite closely, and we still are looking at very closely to see exactly what it portrays, is the part where Jeanine Pirro says it shows Cole Allen shoot a U.S. Secret Service officer during his attempt to assassinate the president at the White House Correspondents' Dinner.

1:14:29She also says there's no evidence the shooting was the result of friendly fire, meaning fire between Secret Service officials as this man ran through the magnetometers. You'll see in this video in a minute, he does run. He comes out and runs through the mags. And there are shots that are fired there. This video is much clearer than previous footage available. The Washington Post appeared to look at something very like this. and wrote a story about it and noted that they didn't see the muzzle flash of his rifle. And in court filings, what the Justice Department said as of yesterday was that when he fired his rifle, it was fired.

1:15:10Here's a slow down version of it. Yeah. Yeah. There he comes through the mags and they are highlighting him. I don't know if that means that that's when he is shooting at that officer. That officer that's highlighted then is the one that's shooting back at him. But the court filings and the affidavit says that he shoots that rifle off toward the stairs, which, I mean, you and I both know what this area looks like. Those stairs are in a different direction than the way that he's running until the very end. So there's a lot of questions right now of did he attempt and intently fire toward the Secret Service official?

1:15:47How was that Secret Service agent hit before the Secret Service agent fired back? This is clearly going to become part of the case. It's a little unusual the U.S. attorney is releasing it right now because nobody's disputing what happened here, given that there were shots fired and this man was apprehended and charged with several very serious violent crimes. But right now, this is what the Justice Department wants to release. They've sent it to the district court. There's not another hearing in this case until May 11th, and there's still no indictment. So a grand jury will also very likely be looking at this and looking quite closely on what exactly it means.

1:16:27And we should note this is from the Hilton, but it's also one floor above where the event was, right? I mean, so just to reiterate, not that this wasn't a very serious offense, but the Secret Service stopped him before he was even able to get to the floor where the president and the cabinet were, which is an important reminder because there's a lot of talk about Secret Service failures here. I think it's important to remember they didn't the guy didn't even get to the floor. They did. President was. So that's important. Caitlin Polance, thanks so much. President Trump just weighed in on reports that The Apprentice TV show could be making a comeback with his son, Don Jr., as the host.

1:17:06We're going to break down this and other Trump headlines with the esteemed Maggie Haberman. That's next.

1:17:21The Great King. The Great King. The Great King. The Great King. The Great King. A farewell fit for a king. King Charles, Queen Camilla, rather, wrapped their four-day state visit to the U.S. today, stopping by to say goodbye, ta-ta, to President Trump and the First Lady at the White House. CNN political analyst Maggie Habrin of the New York Times joins us now. Maggie, so good to see you. So after the royals left the White House today, President Trump posted on Truth Social, quote, in honor of the king and queen of the United Kingdom, I will be removing the tariffs and restrictions on whiskey, having to do with Scotland's ability to work with the Commonwealth of Kentucky on whiskey and bourbon.

1:18:00The king and queen got me to do something that nobody else was able to do without hardly even asking, unquote. I have to say the royal visit has really been a masterclass by the king and maybe the queen for all I know in how to win over President Trump. Completely, Jake. I mean, I think that you've seen the king and queen have a very light and deft touch with the president. It's obviously a relationship that the royal family has wanted to preserve and keep good. and we saw that last year with President Trump's visit to the UK, and this is the reciprocation. I will say that it continues to be very interesting to look at the trajectory of the King's trip, and it involved a speech before Congress reminding Americans what they gained in breaking free from the monarchy in the first place hundreds of years ago, And also then visiting Ground Zero in New York, which, you know, underscored a point he made in that same speech.

1:19:06The last time that, the only time that Article 5 of NATO had to be invoked was when the U.S. was attacked. And so it was a little like watching two different trips, frankly, Jake. I mean, there was the part that President Trump was enjoying, which was the pomp. And then there was what the king was focused on, which was the relationship. The circumstance, I thought you were going to say. But yes, absolutely. From Trump's friends. That too. From Trump's friends to Trump's foes, President Trump still not letting go of his feud with Jimmy Kimmel. Trump posting today, quote, When is ABC fake news network firing seriously unfunny Jimmy Kimmel?

1:19:43It better be soon. Three exclamation points. What's your take on what this fight is really about? Because, again, there's no evidence, even if people hated the joke that Jimmy Kimmel made, there's no evidence that it had anything to do with what happened Saturday night. I can't profess to understand exactly why they're leaning in this hard on this. You know, obviously you saw that the first lady says something because she was partly what the joke was about. People don't have to like every single joke. People can actually find jokes distasteful or, you know, find them unfunny or unfair or what have you.

1:20:21But this is this is free speech. And, you know, that is the essence of what Trump claimed to be fighting for in 2024 after saying that the censorious left had cracked down on conservatives too much. And now he is using the apparatus of government to go after a network over this joke. Again, to your point, there's just no evidence that we have seen. And I think they would have shown us the government if it existed at this point. but, you know, maybe I'm wrong, that that joke had anything to do with what we saw from this alleged gunman at the White House Correspondents' dinner on Saturday night.

1:21:04I do also just, I want to underscore, Jake, that, I mean, one of the things that is striking here is President Trump celebrated when Rob, I mean, you know, not, I shouldn't say celebrated, but President Trump said something insensitive at best when Rob Reiner and his wife were killed, allegedly by their child. That has, he was still entitled to say that, whatever anybody thought. So, anyway. He celebrated when Bob Mueller died. So, I mean, there is, there are a lot of standards here. Raggi Haberman, thanks so much. Appreciate it. They ditched the PGA Tour for promises of less work, more money.

1:21:47But life just got a lot more complicated for those golfers who jumped ship to the Saudi-backed Live Golf. I guess you live and learn, or do you? Stay with us.

1:22:03In our sports lead, it might be the end of the road for Live Golf, right in the sand trap. Just four years after it set out to revolutionize the sport, the league's Saudi backers are pulling funding at the end of the season, leaving Liv to look for new investors. It appears the league's players are already looking for an exit strategy, with ESPN reporting representatives from multiple golfers have reached out to the PGA Tour to ask about a path for returning. Joining us now to discuss, golf journalist Dan Rappaport. Dan, Saudi funding was very controversial from the beginning. Does Liv golf have any viable path for replacing that funding?

1:22:41Not in its current iteration, not in the form that pays$30 million in prize money every single week. Now, you know, I've been talking to sources today that have said they are meeting with private equity companies that see, you know, an opportunity here, a distressed asset, maybe they can get in. But one thing golfers don't like doing is playing for less money one year than they were playing for the year before. So unless they can raise the, like the same amount of money in the same amount of purses going forward, the players aren't going to have interest. So that's the real problem. The players have grown accustomed to a certain level of money coming in, and it's going to be very, very difficult with the Saudis to keep that going.

1:23:14So Brooks Koepka accepted significant penalties in order to return to the PGA Tour after leaving Live Golf. When it comes to other players who now will presumably want to return, the chief executive of the PGA Tour tells the Wall Street Journal, quote, there were rules and they were broken. with rules comes accountability. So what do you think a path to returning to the PGA Tour looks like? So there were two guys who left Liv at the end of last season to come back to the PGA Tour. Brooks Koepka, the one you mentioned, he was welcomed back right away in this returning member program. But I think the more kind of illustrative one is Patrick Reed.

1:23:52So he left Liv at the end of last season. He's actually sitting out a full year suspension. So he's not eligible to start playing on the PGA Tour again until the end of August. I think that's what's going to happen. I think these guys are going to be on a one-year suspension from whatever the last live event they play. So if they play through the rest of the season, that's the end of August, and they'll be eligible to return to the PGA Tour in August 2027. But they gave that deal to Brooks Koepka because Liv still existed. So they saw a window where they could give a death blow to Liv by taking one of the best players.

1:24:20Now, if Liv is going out on their own, there's no real incentive for the PGA Tour to hand them an olive bridge. Those are the executives. When it comes to the golfers on the tour, let's... I mean, do they even want the Live players back, the guys on PGA? Yeah, I think they do. I mean, there's certainly a couple. I mean, there's really two. Bryson DeChambeau, who's by far the biggest star on Live, at least American star. And he's been one of the most popular players in the world, especially among young people because of all his work on YouTube golf. And there's Jon Rahm, who's consensus top five player in the world.

1:24:55So there are definitely a couple of stars who I think the other players want back because more eyeballs, more dollars, immediate rights deal coming up in a couple of years. But there are a lot of golfers, kind of the middle class on live and below that, who they're going to be stuck without a paddle. They're going to go back to the European tour. They're going to have to try to get through qualifying school. They're going to have to play maybe the minor leagues of the PGA tour to try to get their way back. But look, these guys got a lot of money. They got paid a ton of money to do this because it was such a risk.

1:25:21They knew this could potentially happen, and it has happened, but they have tens of millions of dollars in their pocket. Yeah, nobody's crying for them. I appreciate that. Dan Mappapaport, thank you so much. And you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Fred's X, Blue Sky, and on the TikTok at Jake Tapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram at The Elite CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Elite, you can watch the show on the CNN app. Our good friend Erin Burnett and her show, Erin Burnett Up Front, starts now.

1:25:49I'm Daniel Day-Kim. I'm going to South Korea to figure out how this small nation conquered the world with its culture. Join me and meet the artists and creators behind the phenomenon. K-Everything, streaming May 9th on the CNN app. Influential journalist Kara Swisher is taking a hard look at the longevity industry. There's so much bad information that the really good information gets drowned. The new CNN original series, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever, now streaming on the CNN app.