Lindsay Clancy Jury Remains Deadlocked

26:52We all laugh because you know what Trump means when he says some people don't like things about him. Not the most, I mean, clearly supportive of him and supportive of him against Cornyn. I'm fascinated to see what the White House, what his political operation, what his money does in this race in the next 60 days. Yeah, I mean, you're getting a real, I mean, that's the most positive I've heard, messaging I've heard for Paxton in months. I mean, seriously, it really is. Too bad it's not true. It's a web of lies. But the interesting thing is, like earlier, I saw another clip on CNN earlier today of Trump saying that we will never have another Republican president again.

27:31America will go to hell if we lose the Senate. That's why we have to support Paxton. You had Ted Cruz have a sort of vein-popping tantrum with Laura Ingraham the other night saying everybody is bellyaching about Paxton needs to just shut up and get with the program. And what this reveals is that the underlying problem Paxton has is not that he can't win Democrats or the big Democrats. There are more than enough Republicans in the state of Texas to elect Paxton. It's that a huge number of them don't want to vote for him. And they won't show up. They'll leave his line blank. They'll just stay home.

28:04You're not going to get a lot of Republicans or right-leaning independents to cross over for Tallarico. They're just going to be so disgusted with Paxton. And they're just, I'm just not going to do it. Yeah. And I think the fascinating thing right now is Tallarico. Yeah. It's been the Republicans who it's now weeks after the primary of the runoff ended who are still not seeing people come home. And I think the expectation was, well, it's Texas. Like people come home. And I think that's where you're seeing some of the anxiety. Actually, I want to ask you about this because I've been trying to figure it out throughout the course of the day.

28:30And that's what happened in Tarrant County, Texas. It's right next door to Dallas, third largest county in the state of Dallas. Officials just approved a plan to cut 92 polling stations. Battleground County in Texas includes Fort Worth. I still haven't really figured out exactly what the rationale is yet. What's your read on it? The rationale is voter suppression. I mean, it is really that simple. I don't think anyone in the state of Texas, I was just on the phone with a Texas legend, and we were talking about this race. And no one's surprised at what happened, the polling locations being closed.

29:05That particular judge has said in the past, you know, I quote, if you're a Republican elected official and you're not being called a racist, you're not doing something right. So he's always been hostile toward black and brown voters. So this is an intentional play to suppress the vote in Tarrant County. We saw a similar situation happen during the Democratic primary, and it actually backfired on Republicans. During the Democratic primary, when they closed the polling locations, there was still record turnout of Democratic primary voters. So folks on the ground are feeling like, A, this is not ideal.

29:39We were not surprised by this. We're prepared, but this could very well backfire on Republicans. On the phone with a Texas, you were talking to Beyonce. I wish. I wish. Michael, we talk about this every time you and I are on together. Gut check me on kind of what your read is right now of this race. Yeah, look, look, I think Jonah's overall assessment of Republicans being worried and concerned about some slippage is a real reality. However the expectation is once we start to dump money in the Texas, you get your ads up and going, you can scare the hell out of enough Republicans about Tellurico that they're going to vote for him, Jonah, vote for Paxton that is, regardless because of some very real concerns about some of his religious pronouncements, his cultural pronouncements, some of his views on immigration, that more normal Republicans may say, you know, I don't like Kim Paxton, but I certainly don't want a senator who believes these things representing my state.

30:29That said, I think the vulnerability for Tellurico remains black voters, particularly black men. Ashley and I have talked about this ad nauseum. You have 34 percent who voted for Trump in 2024. Now, I'm not saying those same numbers will vote for Kim Paxton, but what percent decides to vote for Kim Paxton? What percent decides to stay home? And mathematically, what does that do to Tellurico's coalition, which appears to me to be a Hispanic-centric first strategy in bringing in enough black people to sort of consume or build his numbers to get him across the finish line? I'm just not convinced, though, that you can get enough black voters to vote for this guy to get him to the victory, which is why I ultimately believe Kim Paxton will win, albeit by slim march.

31:08But this is why it's going to backfire, because you're going to energize black voters, because they're going to feel like there's an effort to suppress their vote. For Telerico, you think? No, I mean, no one's going to sit back and let Republicans suppress their vote. Oh, I don't disagree with that. Next time, we're just hitting this conversation between the two of you. I like your reaction. And Jonah's just like... Jonah and I are just going to hang out. We're two Texans here. On the phone with Beyonce. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you, as always. Well, what President Trump said today about Tiger Woods after the Gulf giant appeared in court pleading no contest to a reduced DUI charge.

31:39Ahead, the bigger discussion about older athletes dependent on medication years after competing.

31:53I know Tiger very well. He's a great guy. He's unique in so many ways, especially as an athlete, but also as a man. You know, he suffers great pain. He's going to have somebody drive him from now on. In the sports lead, President Trump reacting this afternoon to Tiger Woods' no contest plea to a reckless driving charge. Woods will have his driver's license suspended for five years after a rollover crash back in March. The golf legend, after initially pleading not guilty to a DUI, a misdemeanor charge made a deal with prosecutors now. Joining me now is sports psychologist Dr. Jared Spencer. Dr.

32:30Spencer, this is Tiger Woods' third crash, second time that Woods has faced a DUI charge and had it downgraded to a reckless driving charge. to step back a little bit, because I feel like this is an important conversation to have. What leads someone like him, former star athlete, ending up in such a similar situation time and again after that? Well, while Todd, you're special on some occasions, the reality is this isn't just a pro athlete problem. This is a pervasive problem. We've got a situation in America where there are a lot of individuals struggling with emotional health and well-being. You accompany that with some physical pain, and consequently, that's going to lead eventually to possible self-medication.

33:11So this is a pervasive problem. Look at any community in any high school in America, and people will say, I know somebody in a situation that may not be exactly like Tigers, but similar in some way. That's a really good point. You know, after that DUI charge in 2017, in addition to 12 months probation, a fine and community service, Woods had to attend DUI school and attend victim impact workshops to get the reckless driving charge expunged. Today, license suspended for five years. Here's what the judge said when that was handed down. Sir, I want you to understand the five years of driving is for the sake of the public.

33:48There are no exceptions. If you were to drive for any reason at all, you would go immediately back to jail. I read off what he had to do prior because I think the question is, what other types of support do you think someone like Woods needs to have in place to keep him accountable and to help him through this in the future? Well, this issue really speaks to mental health support in America. And if we're being really candid and real about this, look, we need more mental health professionals at every middle school in America. But even when it comes to high capacity professionals like Tiger, the truth is there are not enough skilled professionals at that level that can really understand the psychological challenges that accompany somebody like him.

34:35You know, fame, success, money. These things bring unique psychological challenges that even very few professionals can understand. And so my point here is that Tiger isn't alone in saying, I need more support. I need better support. I need more specific individuals that can help me in unique ways with the psychological challenges he's having. Because obviously, this has been a repetitive thing. And if nothing changes, nothing changes. It's my sincere hope, while I don't know Tiger personally, that he gets that help. Yeah, certainly share that hope. You know, at the same time, the day before this happened today, football star Tony Romo recently pleaded no contest to a civil charge of OWI operating while intoxicated.

35:16He wrote on Instagram, I own this completely. Multiple back surgeries ended my career earlier than I expected and left me with constant debilitating pain. That pain led to dependence on pain medication, and my efforts to get off those medications led to an over-reliance on alcohol. How common is substance abuse for former professional athletes dealing with pain? Well, it's way more common than we think because really pain is the body's physiological signal that something's wrong and really need a medical care. but suffering is the mind's interpretation of that pain signal. And so for a lot of athletes that have retired that are starting with chronic pain, they're in a lot of suffering, that psychological interpretation.

35:58How does this affect my ego? If I used to be able to be a star athlete, now I can't even run or I have trouble picking up my kids. And so the suffering, the emotional toll of the pain is a really important factor. And here's one reason why. Sleep is the number one factor in mental health. And when you have chronic pain, that's often accompanied by sleep disruptions. And that leads to anxiety, fear of the unknown, depression, hurt held inward. And then they get down that slippery slope where it can get unraveling pretty quick. Dr. Jared Spencer, really important conversation. Really appreciate your expertise.

36:36Thanks so much. Always a pleasure. Well, up next, the follow-up. We're catching up with a small business that took a hit from Trump's global tariffs. How is that company doing now after refunds were given out? Plus, will there be consequences for two Democrats who cross party lines to help Republicans? We heard from House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries today, coming up.

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37:37Nearly a month after Trump's Liberation Day in April last year, we spoke with Stephen Borrelli, the founder and CEO of Cuts Clothing. He voted for the president, but told us Trump's terrorists were putting stress on his online retail business. Let's catch up with him now, because it's been a year plus, sometimes feels like a lot longer. Stephen, since we last spoke, were you able to take advantage of the program put in place to give out refunds? Yes. Cuts, we've received about half of our refunds so far, And it's been such a blessing after such a hard year. You know, last year, tariffs were, we were hit hard.

38:14We lost nearly 20 % of gross margin. But I told the team out of the get-go, you know, we're not going to be victims. We're not going to blame President Trump. Business, sometimes things change. And fast forward a year, we're having one of our best years yet. And to get that tariff refund, it's been huge for us to have more cash and to be able to reinvest it into the business. Given kind of the year that you've been through, first off, it's great news. I can't be more thrilled that you're in a better place now. Your ability to plan, to look forward into the future, which is such a necessity for any small business owner.

38:51Have you been able to rebuild the losses, replace workers that you had to lay off, lower prices? How are you thinking through next quarter, the quarter after that? Yeah, so one of the things we learned last year was to have diversity in our supply chain. And so we moved away from the high tariff countries into other countries. The big thing originally was we just needed consistency in the tariff plan. So now that we've had that, the business from a supply chain level has never been better. And then the staff, one of the cool things going through the tariffs was we had to cut our staff by 50%. And then we had to think creatively.

39:29Our old VP of marketing became our VP of product. And there's a lot of efficiencies we gained with that because he was closer to the customer. And now he's leading the product team and it's leading to a lot of innovation. So Terrace put a lot of pressure on the business, but we learned how to operate within those uncertainties. And it's made us much stronger moving forward. It is positively remarkable to listen to how small business owners are able to make things work in moments and times when it seems absolutely impossible. I certainly wouldn't be able to do it. One of the things that I've often wondered since you were first on, you know, the terms obviously had a drastic impact on you and other entrepreneurs.

40:07As your business kind of enters this place, are you still a supporter of the president? Yes, absolutely. You know, one of the things I learned in this process was, you know, sometimes when new laws and regulations come out, it's just it wasn't about cuts. President Trump had a plan and he was carrying out that plan and it didn't affect our business positively. But I wasn't going to throw away my support for him just because it hurt our business in the short term. I still believe in the president's plan long term and I'm a happy supporter of his. Stephen Borelli, I couldn't be happier to hear your company's doing much better at this point in time.

40:47I really appreciate your time sharing your story. The business is Cuts clothing. I highly recommend Stephen Borelli. Thank you, my friend. Appreciate it. Thank you. Well, all eyes on two Democrats who voted to help Republicans. Was it a party defection or were they simply voting their conscience? I'll ask a House Democrat who voted with his party next.

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41:42Welcome to Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. This hour, with just 62 days until the midterms, you'd think Democrats would be laser-focused on taking the House and Senate back from Republicans. Instead, tonight Democrats are fighting amongst themselves, trying to decide whether to punish two of their own for crossing party lines. How big of a problem is this really for the elections and maybe after? Plus, the jurors in the Lindsay Clancy trial once again telling the judge They're deadlocked and cannot come to an agreement. But the judge has given them a special final instruction to see if they can reach a verdict.

42:12CNN's teams in the courtroom will give us all the latest details ahead. Also, should the U.S. Supreme Court have more than nine justices? A handful of Democrats, after a handful of Democrats, floated the idea in recent days. Republicans put up a vote today to block it. The results coming up.

42:31The lead tonight to punish or not to punish. That's the key question among some House Democrats on Capitol Hill, some of whom are livid over two defectors, Congressman Jared Golden of Maine and Marie Glusenkamp Perez of Washington. They split with Democrats on a procedural vote that unlocked the GOP's ability to put legislation on the House floor, including a bill to help lobstermen, a key priority for Golden. Last night, House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries says the party was, quote, blindsided by the defections, quote, that created a significant breach of trust. When asked by CNN today, Jeffries wouldn't say if the two members should be stripped of their committee assignments.

43:07We start things off with CNN's Lauren Fox following this kind of burst of drama on Capitol Hill. Lauren, Jeffries seems unusually animated about this. Leadership very frustrated. Where does this go from here? Yeah, I mean, two things are true, Phil. The first is that no one is happy about what happened yesterday with these two Democrats. On the other hand, no one is exactly clear on what the next step should be, because this is a really delicate balance for Democratic leadership. On the one hand, they want to make sure that there are consequences for members who vote with the Republicans on procedural votes.

43:41This is not about a piece of legislation, the underlying bill. This is about a procedural vote. And typically, that is a moment where Republicans vote with Republicans, Democrats vote with Democrats, and Democrats have typically been unified on those votes. Yesterday was a clear exception, and that is what was so frustrating to so many Democrats. But whether or not there should be punishment, that's another question entirely. Here's what a couple members said. The idea that there will be consequences, depending on how that is laid out, could create a slippery slope. I mean, we're not kids, you know, we're not, we don't have a parent that's going to punish us.

44:24We are all elected, but we have to have some unity. I think there should be consequences. I think at the end of the day, the reason we have a caucus is to be united against what Republicans are trying to do. And Phil, this isn't happening in a vacuum. Let's just set the stage for what this is really about. In just a couple of months, we will know whether or not Democrats have control of the House of Representatives, whether or not Speaker Jeffries is in fact going to be the speaker. And one of the key questions is, do you need to set a precedent now so it is clear to all these new Democrats coming in, including Democratic Socialist candidates who are coming into this body for the first time, that there are consequences if you aren't part of the team?

45:05And I think that is what Democrats are really working through right now. They had a more than hour-long caucus meeting this morning. I'm told that there weren't any clear conclusions. It was really an opportunity for members to vent some of their frustrations, some of their concerns. But again, this isn't just about what happened yesterday, Phil. This is about what happens if Jeffries becomes the Speaker of the House. It's such a great point in terms of what the meeting is. Longer term, bigger picture. Lauren Fox, as always, my friend, great reporting. Thank you. Well, let's get the perspective from another member of the caucus, Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado.

45:39Congressman, thanks so much for coming in. Thanks, Bill. You flipped a district in 2018. You are the battleground chair for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. Frontliners are your business. Do you think that this was a betrayal by two of your colleagues? You know, there's really important context here, and here's that context. I know these two members, Marie and Jared, very, very well. I came into Congress with Jared Golden. The reason we've had majorities in the past are because of members like Jared and Marie. They hold two of the toughest districts in America, deep Trump districts, for Democrats to hold and win.

46:17So they voted their conscience. Would it be the vote that I would take? No. I wouldn't have taken that vote, and I was disappointed that they did. But they are not defectors. They have not betrayed anybody. These are patriots. By the way, Jared Golden is a multiple combat veteran, a Marine Corps veteran, that served in the heaviest combat in Fallujah, right, an enlisted infantryman. So these are people that are friends of mine. They're patriots. They're trying to do the right thing. The broader issue here is that we need to win the majority, and we need to win the majority with a big enough margin that we have the ability for members to vote their conscience, to be independent, to serve in districts like this.

46:56And I am relentlessly focused on delivering a majority big enough for us to have a coalition like that that's broad and diverse. I've set up a leadership fund, Service First Leadership Fund, that is supporting dozens of candidates around the country, just like these members that are battling it out on the front lines of the midterms who are going to fight and win. Lauren, I think, made a really important point contextually to understand the dynamics here, which is this isn't measuring the drapes, but this is thinking through what a majority would look like, a majority that even if you guys have a great night on November 2nd, 3rd, the first Tuesday of November, the 3rd, that there's just not enough races up for grabs right now for it to be a 2018 majority type of situation or 2008 majority type of situation.

47:45And that means that there are going to be clashes between different wings of the party. What is your sense of how those dynamics resolve or do they before the election? Oh, I think we can go deep. I think we can go deep into red territory, and I think we should. We need to be aggressive. We need to fight hard. We need to go to places in the country, and we are going to places in the country where we haven't been for cycles and years. We are going to be confident. We're going to be aggressive. We're going to flip seats that nobody thought we could flip. The Service First Fund is going to be a part of that.

48:17We are going to be relentless and ruthless about it because our democracy depends on it. Americans depend on it. So that's number one. Number two is I don't want to ever belong to any organization where ideological purity and lockstep with any president is a requirement for membership. No business, no family, certainly no political party. And I am proud of the fact that the Democratic Party is a big tent. We are expanding that tent to represent this country. And I am never going to go to my fellow Democrat and say, you've got to vote this way and that way. I'm going to whip for my causes. And I do.

48:54But at the end of the day, if you're holding a district, the Trump 12, Trump 15 district, and you are helping deliver a majority that's going to save this democracy, then I'm going to be behind you. Switching gears a little bit to you are an Army veteran, you're an Army ranger. What's happening right now at the Department of Defense, including the recent resignation of the Secretary of the Army, there were not a lot of people at the Department of Defense that had great relationships on Capitol Hill with either side, let alone Democrats. Dan Driscoll had some of those. That's an understatement, yes.

49:23It was well thought of in the administration as well. He's out. Secretary Hegseth has also dismissed several top military officers. It's in a couple of dozens at this point in time. I think one of the questions that I've had throughout is Trump obviously likes Hegseth. Hegseth's obviously not going anywhere. How do you think about what you and the majority and what your caucus and a majority would approach Hegseth in this Department of Defense based on all of the issues that they're currently involved in? Well, you know, let's look at some of the numbers here. There have been 80 general officers who have been purged at the senior levels.

49:5910 % of the top military officers across the branches have been purged. And these are some of our most senior experienced public servants, lifetime warriors. We are at a 25-year low for the number of women that are on the promotion list. Right. Pete Hegseth does not like women, does not like people of color. And he is purging them to remake the military in his own image. And I'm going to do everything possible to stop him, which is why we need to retake the majority. And you talk about Dan Driscoll. Here you have somebody who's smart, who's competent. And I had some policy disagreements with Dan Driscoll.

50:38I have some political disagreements with him. But that's the process. Right. That's legislating. That's what should happen. Congress should have the debates. And I actually could have debates with this guy because he's smart. He knew his stuff. He was working hard to modernize the army and to bring it into the 21st century. And for Pete Hegseth, that's the original sin. You can't have somebody who does the job, knows what they're doing, and is competent sitting next to you because it just points out how bad you are and how incompetent you are. He doesn't want competent people around him because it makes them look bad.

51:08Right. So the army and the country is worse off because Secretary Driscoll is no longer in that position. So when we retake the majority, which we're going to do, we are going to be relentless about pursuing corruption and nepotism and incompetence in the Department of Defense because our service members deserve nothing less. When I took off my uniform years ago, my oath to this country did not end and my commitment to my fellow service members and their families did not end. So I'm going to be relentless day and night to make sure we clean up the Department of Defense and we deliver the services and the leadership that our men and women deserve.

51:51Oversight, an effort to find recourse for some of the things the Democrats have had issues with, including allegations of illegality on some level with some individuals. On many levels. You say on many levels? You were involved in the impeachment process the first time around. Yeah. Is that something you think Democrats should be thinking about planning for mapping out? Well, I wasn't just involved in the impeachment process. I was an impeachment prosecutor. I prosecuted the first impeachment trial as one of those handful of Democrats that sat on the floor of the Senate for weeks and looked in the eyes of those senators and said, Donald Trump is a danger to this country.

52:27This is not going to end well. Here's how it's going to play out. And I did not want to be right, by the way. I deeply wish that I wasn't right, but I have been proven right. And here we are. So they've been warned. Impeachment is one of those tools. There are many tools available to us. So what I want to do is I want results. I want accountability. I want people fired. I want people taken out of leadership positions who aren't doing their job. And I will use any combination of those tools available because that is our constitutional duty. That is what Congress is designed and what our duty is under the Constitution, what we are designed to do.

53:06So we'll look at what tools we have and which ones to bring to bear to accomplish that result. Congressman Jason Crowe, Democrat from Colorado, thanks for coming in. I appreciate it. Good to see you, sir. Well, jurors in the Lindsey Clancy trial have gone home for the day, once again telling the judge they are deadlocked and cannot reach a verdict. So what will happen when they return tomorrow morning? We're live outside the courthouse next.

53:32Breaking news in our law and justice lead, a last ditch effort to avoid a hung jury in the Lindsay Clancy case. Today, jurors once again said they could not reach a unanimous decision on whether Clancy is criminally responsible for killing her children in 2023. Late this afternoon, the judge read the jury the so-called Tui Rodriguez charge, the final legal effort to avoid mistrial, urging jurors to reconsider their positions to reach a unanimous verdict. Let's get straight to CNN legal correspondent Jean Passara. She's outside the courthouse in Massachusetts. Jean, deliberations continue tomorrow.

54:04Is there any expectation that Tui Rodriguez charge will change anything here? Well, Phil, let's put it this way. A week ago Thursday, last Thursday, is when the jury started deliberating. So tomorrow is Thursday. One week later, they continue to deliberate. You know, they are working so hard. And Kevin Reddington even said today that they are he's so proud of them because whatever happens, they are giving it all that they've got. And it started this morning. You know, yesterday they sent out a note saying that they could not reach a unanimous decision, but they kept at it after the judge informally told them, go back in, keep going.

54:43So they came in today, deliberated all day, but then early afternoon, another note saying they could not reach that unanimous verdict level. The judge then read the official, as you said, the Thuy Rodriguez charge, which is an instruction based on Massachusetts law, case precedent. So they went back in. They continued to deliberate. And they wanted to deliberate till 4 p.m. today, which is sort of a change. And they are coming back tomorrow. But Kevin Reddington, the defense attorney, said that if there's a mistrial, he'll be ready to retry this case next week. And then he talked about his client, Lindsey Clancy.

55:19because remember the defendant she's having to go through all this too listen to what he had to say how is she feeling today leading the court she's upset i mean she's sad i just sit there and try to keep her up you know just try to talk and discuss different issues and things and just try to keep her mind occupied now in some other news while the jury was deliberating today in their room a retired nurse faced an arraignment for allegedly trying to intimidate or harass the jury yesterday yesterday the jury left at 3 30 at 3 40 the massachusetts state police confirmed with us they had in custody a 56 year old retired nurse who allegedly was taking pictures of the jury now in court today the defense attorney said no she just wanted to see lindsey clancy but The prosecution said we got her phone and there were deleted videos of the jury.

56:19So she is facing 20 years in prison because this is a first degree murder case that allegedly she interfered with. She'll be to court again, but we don't know how that will end up either. But tomorrow, this jury, 9 a.m. sharp, they'll be deliberating right here in Plymouth. Gene Casares, absolute best in the business. Thank you, my friend. Appreciate it. Well, a hearing is scheduled tomorrow in President Trump's efforts to curb mail-in voting. What should we expect? Our senior legal analyst, Ellie Honig, is here to walk you through it all next.

56:57In our national league, there's been a lot of movement on mail-in ballots. Last week, the Supreme Court allowed the administration's executive order to move forward while the legal fight in lower courts continued. Then this week, a lower court stepped in and blocked parts of it, raising new questions about that order, Postal Service changes and possible voter impact before Election Day. So for answers about what's actually happening, let's bring in CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig. Elie, what is the state of play right now? So, Phil, I think a lot of people are trying to figure this out. Now, back after the president issued his mail-in ballots executive order in March, a group of 23 Democratic-led states brought a lawsuit.

57:33They said this violates our constitutional right as states to run our own election. This is the president, the executive branch, interfering with that. Last week, the Supreme Court declined to rule on the legality or illegality. They said this lawsuit is premature. It's not ripe yet, as we say, because the harms that you're worried about have not come to pass. They're too remote. They're too hypothetical. Now, separately from that, a few days later, the Postal Service issued its official final rule. And then a separate case went to a district court judge in Massachusetts. That district court judge said, OK, now we have a final rule.

58:08Now we're farther along. Now we're closer to the actual harms that are feared. Therefore, it's not too soon. Therefore, it is OK for me. So I'm going to block the Postal Service from doing what it's been told to do under the executive order for now. And there's another hearing on that tomorrow. I presume this ends up back in the Supreme Court sometime sooner rather than later. I think your presumption is right. And the question once again for the Supreme Court will be, first of all, is it still too early or have things progressed far along enough now that the Supreme Court can rule on the legality of it?

58:40And if it gets to that second question, I think the states have a very good argument. The Constitution is crystal clear. The states run their own elections or Congress can legislate, but the president and the executive branch have no role whatsoever. So don't be surprised if this gets back to the Supreme Court real quick. OK, switching gears a little bit, but still Supreme Court adjacent or related. House Republicans tried to put a constitutional amendment on the table to cap the Supreme Court at nine justices. The measure failed today in the House, on the House floor. Do we need an amendment to keep the Supreme Court at nine?

59:10So the number nine is actually not set in stone. It's not in the Constitution. The Constitution says there will be a Supreme Court, there will be a chief justice. But that number is based on legislation. We actually, a long time ago, had as few as five justices. At one point, we actually had 10 justices, but we've been at nine since the year 1869. So there actually could be some work to be done. If we chose to amend the Constitution to say nine, then that would set it in stone for all time. And just to be very clear, it takes more than just a House vote, a majority vote for that to actually occur.

59:42So I guess the question, is it your sense in the legal community that there's a real threat of the court being expanded right now? So first of all, it's almost impossible at this point to amend the Constitution, as you said, Phil. It takes a two-thirds vote in the House, a two-thirds vote in the Senate, and then three-quarters of the states. I don't think there is any real chance of that happening. I also don't think there's any real chance of the Supreme Court being expanded. Remember, this was a big issue in the 2020 election. Joe Biden had been opposed to this for 40 years, but then in 2020, he said, actually, I'm open to it now.

1:00:12He became president and did essentially nothing to push it along during his four years. So I think the reality is we've been at nine for 157 years, and I think we're going to be at nine for a long time moving forward. If I recall correctly, there was like the old Blue Ribbon Commission play. That's exactly how you kill something in D.C. Which is Washington for saying, we're not going to do this ever, but thank you for playing. Ali Honig, thank you for playing, my friend. Always good to see you. Thank you. Well, the bipartisan duo is pushing for the release of more Epstein files. They say the Justice Department is still keeping secret.

1:00:42They join us to explain next.

1:00:55Breaking news in our national lead. A heavy police presence in the heart of downtown Minneapolis tonight as police respond to a shooting near the convention center. Initial reports show there are multiple victims, including two officers. We will keep you updated as this develops. Well, in our law and justice lead, you know them pretty well at this point. A bipartisan duo is back with a new effort to force a vote on a second Epstein Files bill. Republican Congressman Thomas Massey of Kentucky, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California, they argue the Trump Justice Department is violating the law by withholding millions of its files on Epstein.

1:01:28Now they want it to become law for state attorney general, survivors, and others to sue U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche for improper withholdings or redactions. And the two congressmen join me now. I appreciate you guys coming in. Just to start, as you kind of think through the process, your ability to whip, to find support, to attach that to what had become a national moment, I think as well, was remarkable as somebody who covered Congress for many years. Let's start with you, Congressman Massey. What's your sense? One of your three Republicans is no longer in Congress. One has signed on. I believe Lauren Boebert has not yet.

1:02:01What's your sense of where Republicans are on this? Well, you're right about the math. It's the same as it was a year ago. We need me and three other Republicans. Nancy Mace has already joined. And so I need two more Republicans Now, the pitch I'm making to my Republican colleagues who are running statewide for governor in purple states or in purple districts is do this now before the election. Take credit for it. Be a hero. You'll do better if you do. But they're still reluctant because of Trump and the pressure from the White House not to do these kind of things. Congressman, what's your sense if this is something that doesn't get done before the election or lame duck afterwards?

1:02:39would this be a priority if Democrats are in the majority in the House, especially a new majority has a lot of priorities, a lot of things that were promised, a lot of things that are expected. Where do you think this ranks? Absolutely, but I believe we're going to get this done. I mean, we're going to deliver all of the Democrats, and then it's just two more Republicans. One of them I was talking today, I don't want to give the name out because then it will just incite the White House to do a full court press. But there are a few Republicans who are on the fence, and they understand the power of this issue.

1:03:09that you don't want rich and powerful men who abused young girls to not face justice. I mean, we have Leon Black supposedly coming tomorrow. He has huge allegations against him on sexual abuse. We'll see if he shows up. But this is about holding people like him accountable. Yeah, I think it's important. And I should be very clear, I'm not trying to frame everything through a political or whip count perspective. This is about survivors and things that were promised and things that are in statute that have not been complied with at this point from the Justice Department. Congressman, to that point, we've heard no new DOJ investigations.

1:03:42Todd Blanch has very clearly operated as if the page has been turned. They're moving on. On the House floor on Monday, you named 14 people who you say are Epstein co-conspirators. What was the thinking behind that? What do you hope will come from that? Well, I'm trying to shame the DOJ into delivering some justice. And the information that I have comes from beyond the files. People are saying, oh, we already saw those names in the files. Yes, what I'm trying to tell you is these men are guilty, and I know this from other sources. So they need to be investigated and prosecuted. Now, I don't think Todd Blanche is ever going to do it, because you had the FBI director tell us in a hearing that there were no co-conspirators.

1:04:24Now, even Melania Trump doesn't agree with that. So one of the main things about this bill that Roe and I have written is it allows state attorneys generals, like you said in the beginning, to bring cases in state courts for crimes for which the statute of limitations has not run out. They just need Todd Blanche's cooperation, like the state attorney general in New Mexico. So we wrote this in conjunction with him to make sure that we give him the tools he needs to bring justice in the state court. which for context, a ongoing investigation, a very significant investigation within New Mexico that's been playing out in parallel to your efforts as well.

1:05:02I want to switch gears to something else that I think is of interest to both of you guys. Congressman McConnell, there's major concern about this Trump administration rule that has come out related to the U.S. Postal Service and vote by mail. It's in process right now. Obviously, there's a court fight over it, but the final rule is out. It's 60 plus days until the election. No one's exactly sure where this is going to end up. What's your level of concern about this? I'm very concerned. Put the partisanship aside. Who made the Postal Service the arbiter on who a citizen is or who should get a ballot?

1:05:32The Postal Service is just supposed to administer the mail. And what you have now is a potential effort for them to be giving the ballots to whoever they think are on some list. I mean, that's just un-American. Look, the reason Trump is in this position is because he's the one who chose to go to wars after promising no more wars. He's the one who chose to cover up the Epstein files after promising to release the Epstein files. He's betrayed some of his central promises, and now they're in a panic to try to see how they save the midterms. It doesn't matter. They're not going to save the midterms.

1:06:08I mean, the Democrats are going to win the House of Representatives. You think that's true? That they're going to win? Yeah. I'm worried that that's going to happen. You know, and as far as vote by mail, I'm on the other side of Roe on this. I prefer they don't vote by mail, but I don't think you can do this by an executive order. And it's the purview of state law, really, about how their elections are handled, not federal law. But if you're going to do it, it has to be a law, either at the state or federal level. Yeah, it was There's a point that I made, you know, you could support the Save America Act, which would put into statute some of these regulations.

1:06:41By the way, you supported the Save America Act. I know there was a question at some point randomly during your primary race. You always did. But the question that I've had about this rulemaking in particular is whether you like it or dislike it, even if there's a statutory basis for it or not, the mechanics of a government agency trying to put this together in 60 days, where in certain states there is no grace period for postmarks if they have to, if clerks have to take ballots back, correct them, send them back out again, you could have constituents who've done absolutely nothing wrong, but all of a sudden they might not have their ballot counted.

1:07:13Is that a concern that you have? It is a concern, but I'm also concerned about the, I brought this up many years ago, you have some that are backdating the postmark on these ballots and that's something they do. It's not against the law. I actually offered an amendment to say you can't backdate ballots if they're sent in the mail. I think, but I offered it as a law, not a rulemaking. Yeah. Okay. I'm for voting by mail, but I think it shows that Thomas and I have many disagreements. A lot of times people see us on TV and they think, after the last seven months, everybody's like, oh, they agree on everything.

1:07:50I'm like, oh, they don't. I actually think that that should provide some hope that you can disagree. You can have substantive disagreements, but when it comes to this Epstein issue, when it comes to people who have harassed, trafficked, abused young girls, wealthy and powerful people who aren't following the law, we should come together as Americans to get justice. And we should look for areas like stopping foreign wars, like Thomas's bill on the Flock camera that's violating privacy. Look for more areas where you can find common ground and common sense. By the way, once we forced the vote, it was 427 to 1 in the House and 100 to nothing in the Senate.

1:08:27We created bipartisanship across both chambers you've never seen before. Safety in numbers is an amazing thing on the House floor. Before I let you go, I want to ask you about beef tariffs. Yes. Today, some Republicans, I think, met with Trade Representative Jamison Greer. I'm not sure if you were among them behind closed doors. There's a lot of frustration in the Republican conference about this. There's also a lot of frustration about what the order actually applies to, who gets to benefit from it. What's your sense of kind of the, I understand the affordability issue, hamburger prices are high.

1:08:57This being the response, what do you think of it? Well, I'm for the free market. And actually high prices send a signal to the farmers that it might be worth farming beef cattle again. And so it brings people into it. I think it's wrong to try to artificially suppress the price, especially right before an election, without a long-term solution. I have a legislative solution that's bipartisan called the Prime Act that sort of right sizes the regulation so that you could regulate it at the state level. And we've got that in the House Farm Bill. They could put it in the Senate Farm Bill. But here's my concern.

1:09:26The biggest donor to Trump's inauguration was the Brazilian meatpacking company. They gave$5 million to his inauguration. I can guarantee you whatever room there was a discussion in, they were in that room or somebody that works for them was. That's what they did. They bought access. So I'm afraid money is buying an outcome here that's not good for Americans, particularly American farmers. Yeah. The White House is more than welcome to release the country allocations for the 300 tons anytime they have not yet. Notable point. Congressman, appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, today we're getting a first look at new midterm ads launched by Pro-Trump Dark Money Group.

1:10:07Is their message enough to earn your support? We're going to show them to you next.

1:10:16In our politics lead, our first look at two new midterm ads launched by a pro-Trump dark money group. Here's the first one. Watch. He is the toughest, most resilient person that I've ever met. And nothing was going to stop him from fighting so hard for the country he loves. Our top priority will be to create a nation that is proud, prosperous, and free. Sure, Michael, honestly, like, if they're spending, Republicans will be happy. Like, if any Trump-aligned groups are spending, they'll just be like, great, thank you, finally, for getting up the silence. Like, I don't know, that's a very, like, Trump-focused.

1:10:52Yeah, but look, I think some of these ads are important, particularly in states like Texas, for the reasons that Jonah gave in the previous segment. You may indeed see some slippage in the base for a candidate like a Ken Paxton. We have got to supercharge the president's base and get those folks excited to turn out for a candidate that they may not like. And I think ads like that targeting those individuals will accomplish that. They like Trump. They mostly agree with some of his successes, immigration, et cetera. And so I think if you can remind them of some of the good deeds the president has done, then I think they ultimately turn out come November.

1:11:23There was another ad released in parallel. Jonah, we were just talking about this. It's an accomplishments ad, which is different than just a Dana White Trump is awesome ad. Watch. We gave you no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, and no tax on Social Security. The largest tax cuts in American history. The price of eggs is down 60%. I took prescription drugs from the highest price in the entire world to the lowest. I will venture and say knowledgeably there's some hyperbole there on some of the percentage facts that are thrown out there. But I can tell you, and you were saying this, so I'm going to steal it from you.

1:12:03A Republican watching that who's up for re-election is saying thank you. Yes, that. Over and over again. If they run a lot more of those kinds of ads than the I'm strong like bull, I am king of America ads, which are, you know, the ones Trump likes, right? And so I think this is the right strategy on paper insofar as if you look at the, every midterm election of this sort is always a referendum on the president and the White House always, Obama wanted to do it, Bush wanted it. It's just the rule, the White House always wants to turn it into a choice. Never works. So their theory here is Trump's approval rating is so low, if I can get it up for the reasons that Schermichael was talking about, that will help.

1:12:50I'm just, it's the right idea. I'm just not sure it's going to work. I think Trump fatigue is real. Trump is the establishment now. He still wants to talk as if he's running against the establishment. I think there's an enormous amount of like, what have you done for me lately? These issue things, again, it's the right thing to lean into, but then people are just feeling, we just know from the polling, we know from everything else, people think the economy is not going well. They think we're on the wrong track. They don't like the war. And I just don't think that that stuff is going to overpower it.

1:13:20What do you think? No, I think Jonah's absolutely right. I think on paper, it's the right strategy. And they needed to do more of this and needed to do it earlier, in fact. But the problem is, is it comes up against the reality of how Americans are experiencing this country, this nation, their lives. to Jonah's point. You've got 94%. I've never seen a number this high. 94 % of the country believes that we're in an affordability crisis. 90 % of the country believes that the White House is corrupt and it's affecting their pocketbooks. These are unprecedented numbers here. So I agree with Jonah. I don't believe that this is actually going to work, but it is in theory a good strategy.

1:14:02Sir Michael, we were talking about this before as well. There's a dinner tonight, a Rose Garden dinner. Several battleground Republican lawmakers, I believe, who are in some tough midterm races, Wisconsin, Congressman Derek Van Orden, Iowa Congressman Zach Nunn, Michigan Congressman Tom Barrett, Georgia Senate nominee Congressman Mike Collins. These are really, I mean, this is frontline as frontline gets. Trump has a big political opera. I feel like we talk about this all the time. When is MAGA Inc. going to start rolling out? The numbers toggled, depending on where Trump is on the day, could be 400 million, could be 800 million, could be$10 trillion.

1:14:34It's more money than anyone else has. And they haven't really opened the spigot yet. Do you Do you think this dinner is part of that process? I think that is a part of the process. I think the president's advisors are making him aware of the realities that we're about to face after November. You want to, at a minimum, keep the Senate. The House is going to be difficult. You have history against us. The president's party typically loses seats going all the way back to World War II. So President Trump isn't unique when you look at the facts and history here. Now, what number of seats will Democrats win?

1:15:08Again, I'm skeptical about this huge, significant wave. There are far more competitive congressional races than there have ever been in the history of our country. You have to factor that in to the assessment. That said, wherever the president can spend dollars to help some of these members get across the finish line in these very tight races will absolutely matter. But fundamentally, it's important to focus on the Senate. You can lose the House, I would argue. You cannot lose the Senate. And I think the president gets that. Jonah, to that point, there's a fascinating moment today when Trump was in the Oval Office and he said he's going to personally, actually, listen to what he said.

1:15:44I will go to Alaska to help Dan Sullivan get elected. He would call me all the time because I think nobody, I definitely know, nobody has helped Alaska like Donald Trump. I will be going to Alaska. I'm going to be going the last 30 days before the election. So making sure Michael's point, the Senate is what matters. The Senate is where we have to win. Alaska is going to be a tight race. There's like 13 Dan Sullivans currently on the ballot right now. Presumably Trump is going for the incumbent one. How much of a difference do you think the physical presence in Texas is one thing? Going to Alaska 30 days out, does it matter?

1:16:22I honestly, I think they have to be seeing some numbers. I was looking for Alaska polling. Alaska is very difficult to pull. I spent a lot of time in Alaska. My wife's from Alaska. But they have to be seeing something. There's no way Trump's going there over the wishes of Dan Sullivan. So they see something there that they think is going to work. I personally think, I like Dan Sullivan. I think he's in real trouble in Alaska, regardless of the doppelganger Dan Sullivan. But I just don't know how many places are like that, that Trump can be additive. right? It's almost more interesting the number of places he doesn't go because it doesn't help.

1:17:03Texas is, if I can just add, Texas, I think, is a big one, John. I think the president stays out of Maine. I think the president stays out of Michigan. I think we win Maine. I think Rogers has a potential path to Michigan. North Carolina is going to be a difficult though one, Ashley. I think the president could go there. I'm just not certain. Ashley, where do you not want the president to go? Like as a Democrat looking at the race, Like, where would his appearance be a problem? Well, I mean, I think to some degree, you want the president, you want, Democrats want to center this election on the president of the United States.

1:17:34I mean, that is the objective. You know, you want to remind people of the reason why you're being hit economically as hard as you are, blame the president. Why we're in Iran, blame the president. Why your gas prices are too high, blame the president. That is the real, the strategy is an anti-Trump strategy with no sort of proactive vision. So, you know, as many states that he can show up in, Iowa, North Carolina, Michigan, it plays to our advantage. This dinner tonight plays right in the hands of the Democratic Party. It's worth pointing out, the good soundbites stay in the state where he's campaigning.

1:18:06The bad ones get amplified over across the entire country. Thank you guys very much. Appreciate you. Well, a new CNN film tells the story of the legendary restaurant that once stood atop the World Trade Center before the 9-11 attacks. The executive producer behind the film joins me next.

1:18:25International lead next Friday will mark 25 years since the deadliest terrorist attack on U.S. soil. On September 11, 2001, al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial planes, killing 2 ,977 people. Most victims were killed in New York, where American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 struck the twin towers of the World Trade Center, causing both buildings to collapse. A new CNN film called Top of the World tells the story of Windows on the World, a legendary restaurant atop the World Trade Center, one of the country's most celebrated restaurants and a symbol of New York's resurgence in the 1970s.

1:19:00Its story came to a devastating end on 9-11 when 79 employees and 91 guests were killed. Here's a preview. Thank you.

1:19:37And Katie, thank you so much for joining us. I guess just to start, what made Windows in the world so significant, both to New York City and to the people who worked and dined there? Thank you for having me, Phil. You know, Windows was such a special restaurant not only for New York City but also for the country. And it changed the way that we dine in many ways. It was a way to get people to go downtown in New York City. People were not excited about the Twin Towers. Downtown was very different than it is today. It was dirty. It was dangerous. And Windows was a way to get people excited to be downtown New York.

1:20:13And it really changed the city's dining landscape. And also Joe Baum, who was the founder of the restaurant, he founded many great restaurants. He was really the first great American restaurateur. Tavern on the Green, the Rainbow Room, the Grill, so many restaurants. And it's because of Joe that your waiter comes to your table and says, hi, I'm Katie. I'll be your server. or when you get up, your waiter comes and folds the napkin. So there were many things that Windows left an imprint for the future. And, of course, there were immigrants from all over the world that worked there as well. And we really wanted to shine a light on these people's stories.

1:20:50Yeah, I think when I was watching the trailer, the reference was like the United Nations of restaurants at one point at its peak. What inspired you to get involved with this project? Why is this an important story to tell right now? Well, I first read Tom Rosten's book, The Most Spectacular Restaurant in the World, in 2019. And it's the story of Windows. And I was instantly taken with it. I could not put the book down. I gave it to my husband. He was the same. My husband is a television producer. And the two of us said, we have to make this a documentary someday. And years went by. And then finally, one day, about three and a half years ago, we said, we're doing this.

1:21:27And we put together a great team with our partners producing with Time and Tribeca Films and our directors, Betsy West and Julie Cohen, who both Oscar nominated. And, of course, our partners, CNN Films. What do you want? There's so much has been done on this topic. There's so many incredible stories, heartbreaking stories, remarkable stories from what happened 25 years ago. What do you want audiences to take away from this uniquely incredible story? I want people to remember the American dream and how anyone can come to America and make it. And there were people, there were over 400 employees at Windows, and there were people from all over the world speaking all different languages.

1:22:11And restaurants can't run without immigrants. They couldn't run without them then. They can't run without them now. And these people were special people, and they were a family within this restaurant. And I want people to remember them. and I want to tell their stories. It is a story that absolutely needs to be told. I cannot wait to watch it. Katie Lee Beagle, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. And the all-new CNN film Top of the World premieres Monday night at 8 Eastern and Pacific and then next day on the CNN app. Join me for my video series CNN Breaks It Down. We tackle some of the most pressing questions in business and politics.

1:22:49Find new episodes on CNN.com slash watch And you can follow this show on X and Instagram at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can watch the show on the CNN app. Aaron Bernat out front. Starts now.

1:23:05In 2024, a man was killed by the FBI. And to this day, the authorities have refused to say why. He was a father, an ex-husband, and a Russian-born American citizen. He just seemed like a lonely guy. And he needed a friend. And he kind of talked about death, didn't he? He talked about you just never know when it's your time. I'm CNN investigative reporter Isabel Chapman, host of the new limited series Civilian or Spy. They noticed that he was communicating with people that were of concern to the FBI. Oh my God, Jesus. Head over to the CNN Presents feed and listen to our three-part series, Civilian or Spy, available wherever you get your podcasts.