Michael Cohen Interviews Trump Years After Dramatic Falling-Out

26:27In his mind, that means that you're a chump. Why would you possibly do that if there's not something in it for you? So I really hope this is not true. You know, my hopes are repeatedly dashed under the Trump administration. So it probably is. And we'll fight it like we do many of the other egregious things they do. The USS George Washington aircraft carrier is in the Middle East to relieve the USS Abraham Lincoln, which just started making its way back to the United States after this record breaking deployment. You did three tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. What kind of relief do you think the service members aboard the Lincoln are feeling right now?

27:02This is long overdue. The service members on the Lincoln have done more than their time on station. About five months would be the average for an aircraft carrier like this. This actually set a record for the longest deployment of a modern aircraft carrier in U.S. naval history, which is not a record you want to be setting. And I think there's an important distinction here because I've heard Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump and others in the administration say, well, people are trained to do tough things in the military. When you're at war, you do tough things. But here's the difference. I was a ranger, as you pointed out.

27:34I was a paratrooper in Iraq and Afghanistan. And yeah, you do tough things when you have to do tough things, when the mission requires it. In this case, our service members, these men and women aboard the Lincoln, have been put through these conditions unnecessarily because of poor planning, poor stockpiling, no strategy, poor leadership. In the case of Pete Hegseth, this is unnecessary suffering that has impacted their health, their welfare, in the national security of the country because we now have an aircraft carrier that's been taken off station. And we've been able to we've had to move naval assets from around the world to backfill for this.

28:08Right now, this is an astonishing fact. Right now, we don't have any aircraft carrier battle groups within the Indo-Pacific to push back on China's aggression. That is a major problem. And Secretary Hegseth, one of the things he has said, he has suggested that these stories aren't true, that the reports are false. I was interviewing a Blue Star wife who got very upset when she heard that because she'd been hearing these complaints directly from her husband on board the USS Abraham Lincoln. Hexeth also suggesting that the American reporters who have been covering this story are somehow less than American.

28:45He put American in quotes when talking about the American media. What's your response to that? Well, that's what they do. That's their playbook, right? If somebody tells the truth, if somebody points out their failures, their incompetence, or their corruption, as the case may be, they say it's fake news. They say it's not happening. So the first thing they try to do is they try to prevent people from even knowing it in the first instance, which is why they've kicked out of the Pentagon most of the press corps. For the first time in my life, most of the press corps has been kicked out of the Pentagon and had their credentials removed.

29:17You know who hasn't had their credentials removed is Laura Loomer, who never had credentials in the first place and had been granted them by the Trump administration. So they try to hide it. We have, I joined a letter earlier this week, 50 members of Congress sent a letter to Pete Hegseth demanding information on what's happening. They, of course, are not responding to our request for information, our request for briefings and hearings. That's the first thing they do. If people do find out the truth and if they do uncover it, then they attack that person. They say it's not true. They say it's fake news, any manner of lies and distortions.

29:54But we know the truth. Our service members know the truth. And we're going to continue to hold them accountable for it. Democratic Congressman from Colorado, Jason Crow. Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it. And as always, thank you for your service. Thank you.

30:40Turning to the politics lead and First Lady Melania Trump moments ago, well aware she's kept a low profile lately. Take a listen. Good afternoon. I heard you missed me. First Lady was last seen in public two months ago. She missed Senator Lindsey Graham's funeral, the rescheduled White House Correspondents' Dinner, and the dignified transfer of U.S. service members killed in the Iran war. But she appeared today launching a new initiative to help teens in foster care. Our panel is here now. Kate, it is certainly one of the more unusual First Lady reigns ever, even more unusual than her first reign.

31:17It is. It's odd. And especially at a time when the president's approval rating is so low and Republicans are looking at a potentially very difficult November, typically a White House would be using every single option available to them to reach out to voters, you're trying to, you know, you're trying to flood the zone. Typically, the first lady would be a big part of that. You know, Melania Trump has historically not been a typical first lady and not been a first lady who's been, who has seemed to be particularly interested in politics. So, you know, perhaps it's not all that surprising, but it is sort of, it is sort of strange to leave a player off the field when you are behind, when you're down in the game.

31:54Yeah. Do you remember in April she gave that very odd statement about Jeffrey Epstein trying to distance herself from it? Nobody really was sure what she was talking about or why she was bringing it up. Democrat from California, Robert Garcia, Congressman Garcia, who was the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. He says Melania is on the list to question in the Democrats investigation into the Epstein files. What do you think about that? Well, there's I mean, I try. The only reason I follow Epstein stuff is because it's an occupational requirement. Right. So I tend to purge my hard drive of Epstein memories pretty quickly.

32:36But there were, at the very least, there were rumors that, you know, which she denied. She got very angry about. She sued, I think. She came in on a visa that Epstein helped do. I take her word for it that that's not true. Whatever. but one can forgive Melania Trump for just being like, I'm done with this stuff. Call me if you need me. And to Kate's point, it probably didn't occur to anybody because Donald Trump's doing a lot of things that you wouldn't do if you took the midterm seriously. Yes, yes. Like talking about construction projects. Right, for all the time. That's right. He's really good at flagpoles.

33:17Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of message. Yeah. The tapering. I haven't heard that much boasting about tapers since George Brett, but that's another story. Sorry. Corrine, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy's long-awaited reality show, Great American Road Trip, is out after months of delays in the second episode, The Family Tours, Boston College and Harvard. Two schools their daughter, Paloma, is considering. Duffy and his wife, Rachel Campos Duffy, said they were hesitant about Harvard due to their Catholic beliefs. Here's a clip. They have professionalized figuring out how they can take good young girls like you and I think corrupt their minds.

33:56You don't have to believe what I believe. You don't have to have the political viewpoints that I have but I do think it's important that you make those choices for yourself and you have a fair representation of what they are and I don't think the Harvards of the world give you that kind of well-rounded picture. But I went to an extremely conservative school in high school, and I'm part of an extremely conservative family, and that if I go to a liberal setting, that's a way more rounded education. Interesting argument. You're a Harvard grad, and I think you're uncorrupted, as far as I can tell.

34:29I appreciate that. What do you think? Well, as a young conservative woman, also a Catholic that went to Harvard, I can say that you can come out the other side without, I guess, being corrupted. Nothing actually made me more sure of my beliefs than going to Harvard and having them tested day after day after day. It was a fantastic education in that way. And I think that Harvard students could certainly use more viewpoints in their education. It's something that I've written about. It's something that I've argued for. And it's something that the university at this moment seems to be taking more seriously.

34:59But look, it comes down to your personal preferences. I think that strong minded individuals can go into a setting where people disagree with them and learn a lot from it. Wonderful conversation. Okay, Senator John Ossoff, who's not only running for Senate, but also might be running for president in 2028. He set off this personal feud with the White House when he invoked the name of Natalie Hart, President Trump wanting to travel with Natalie and talk about his construction projects. And the White House got very, the White House, let's be honest, made this a much bigger story than it would have been.

35:30Yes, the strides and effect. The strides and effect. But Ossoff's doing his part too. Take a listen. Whether it's Natalie Harp printing out Donald Trump's daily dose of delusion and flattery, or Peter Navarro steering taxpayer-funded loans to Trump family investments, or Pete Hegseth deluding the president daily into deepening this quagmire in the Middle East, no one cares about their feelings. This entire White House is responsible for lying the country into war. And for the rest of their careers, they will be known for having participated in this obscenity. What's your take on that? It looks like he's tweaked the Natalie Harp reference at least a little bit.

36:17Oh, actually, I'm not sure he did. I mean, the only thing that he said initially was that Trump wanted to travel with Natalie on the plane that was gifted by Qatar. You don't buy it that he was winking. I think the only the only people who seem to be winking are the White House who responded with this with this overwhelming sort of pushback on the idea that somehow he had suggested they were having an inappropriate relationship. Yeah, he didn't. And I think it is more than fair game. She is a 35-year-old woman. She is a staffer, a White House staffer, paid by the taxpayers. It is absolutely fair to question.

36:47We're now seeing reporting that she has refused, potentially has refused to complete the security clearance process, which means one of the people closest to the president of the United States, who's seeing a lot of the information he's seeing, hasn't completed that process. So I think it's entirely fair for John Ossoff or any other person in this country to question whether those staffers are serving the American people or whether they are sheltering Donald Trump. Do you agree? I do think he moderated his tone a little bit in this clip. And I think that's actually smart. Look, nobody can out-Trump Trump.

37:19We don't want off-brand Trump. Democrats have to offer something better, I think, to voters. And they have an opportunity. Right now, the president's approval is really hurting with this core constituency, working class white voters. So if Democrats want to win back some cred with working class voters, I don't think an off brand message is what they should be offering. It should be a better message. So, Jonah, congratulations are in order because the United States hit$40 trillion in debt this week. We had on Republicans, Democrats to talk about this with and nobody, you know, all the Republicans are all blaming the Democrats.

37:53Democrats, Democrats, you know, what do you think of it? Stock up on bottled water. Look, look, the simple... There it is right now, if you want to keep... Virtually everything people say about the national debt in a partisan way is true. The problem is they're also hypocrites for saying it because the Democrats ran up a huge amount of debt. Republicans ran up a huge amount of debt. Congress, regardless of which party, ran it. Donald Trump has run up a really spectacular amount of debt. I think about a quarter of it is his. Yeah, it's a lot. It's like, you know, they used to say that Donald Trump has more ex-wives than the previous 45 presidents combined.

38:33He hasn't quite run up as much debt as the previous 45 presidents combined, but he's in the running for it. And at the end of the day, you know, Herb Stein, Nixon's former chief economic advisor, said he coined Stein's law. That which cannot go on forever must eventually stop. This is unsustainable. And we don't know when, as Paul Ryan used to say, it's the most predictable national crisis in the history of America because it is literally impossible to sustain indefinitely. And the consensus in Washington is to sustain it. Yep. Thanks, Ali. You appreciate it. Coming up, what authorities revealed today about an ISIS-inspired bomb plot at a state capitol building and a woman, woman now in custody.

39:13Plus, moments ago here on The Lead, an exclusive interview with Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, confirming that he has submitted a pardon application to the Biden administration. It was denied. And then he submitted another pardon application, basically just a new cover letter to President Trump. Much more of his conversation, plus what he heard today from President Trump after their very public falling out.

39:37In our law and justice lead hundreds of people, mostly women, dressed in pink, gathered outside a Massachusetts courthouse today in support of Lindsay Clancy, who is on trial over her criminal responsibility in her killings of her three children in January 2023. Supporters say that the case is drawing attention to women's mental health and postpartum psychosis, which Clancy's attorney says she was suffering from during the time of the killings. It's a rare condition that impacts about one in every thousand women after delivery. Inside the court, jurors heard from just one witness today before being dismissed early, hospital chaplain Sheila Kavanaugh, who testified that she met with Clancy following the killings and following Clancy's suicide attempt and 200 more times over the last few years.

40:20CNN's Jean Casares joins us now. So, Jean, give us the highlights from the chaplain's testimony. It was a bombshell, an absolute bombshell. She is a board-certified chaplain. She has her master's degree, and she is at the hospital that Lindsay Clancy first went to. She was in her room within hours that Lindsay was admitted, but she was intubated, and so she couldn't speak with her. She went back one week later, January 31st. Lindsay Clancy was not intubated anymore. Lindsay Clancy started to speak to the chaplain. Listen to what she told her. when i went in on tuesday the 31st she said to me as i held her hand to comfort her i am so glad my children are safe she alluded to having heard a voice and the voice according to lindsey told her that if she did not follow the command neither she nor her children would be safe She alluded to the fact that it was a male voice and it was persistent.

41:22But then there was cross-examination. On cross-examination, the prosecutor said you visited her 14 times at the hospital, almost 200 times once she got to Dukesbury, where she is now, it's a public hospital. And you have copious notes. You have quote marks of things she said. And never once in any note on any page did you write that she told you that a male voice was telling her, commanding her to kill the children. Well, on redirect, the defense said, well, this was confidential information. You didn't tell her, you didn't write it down because of that. However, yesterday, you know, you've got to put all the pieces together.

41:59Yesterday, the forensic psychologist testified that Lindsay never told him about a male voice commanding to kill the children, but he learned it from the chaplain. So the chaplain told him, but she didn't write it in her notes. What's coming next in the trial when the jury reconvenes trial? Defense is very close to resting and they say they have one more witness. They've listed two names. One is Dr. Philip Resnick. He was involved in the Andrea Yates case in Texas, iconic historic case of a mother who killed her children. And the other is Dr. Spinelli, who is one of the foremost experts of postpartum depression, but they say one more witness.

42:35So I think either one of those will be taking the stand. All right, Jean Cousares, thank you so much. Joining us now is reproductive psychiatrist Dr. Katherine Berndorf. She's the co-founder, CEO, and medical director of the Motherhood Center of New York. Dr. Berndorf, we saw this crowd outside the courthouse, specifically supporting Lindsay Clancy today. But even beyond her supporters, this case really seems to have touched a nerve for women. Why do you think that is? I think these conditions are much more common than we realize. And I think people are coming out in droves to say, that could have been me.

43:15I see you and I recognize you. And many women have had these conditions and want to talk about it. Well, tell me about that. Are you saying that that postpartum psychosis is more common than we know? Or are you saying that this is more a question of women, whether they have postpartum psychosis or postpartum depression, or just struggles after they deliver, not feeling supported, not feeling supported by the healthcare world, not feeling supported by their husbands? What do you mean? Can I say yes to all of that? Yeah, sure you can. that is true. I think that women don't feel supported by the healthcare system.

44:01I think the system isn't set up to support moms in a way that's needed, right? Paid leave, you know, affordable childcare and maternal mental health. There's a lot to be said for it. So what I meant though, when I said it is, you know, one in five women will struggle with what we call a perinatal mood or anxiety disorder, right? That's the whole gamut. That's everything from depression, anxiety, OCD, PTSD, or postpartum psychosis. One in five will struggle from one of those things. Now, postpartum psychosis is the most uncommon. I don't like to say rare. I prefer uncommon. Up to 8 ,000 women, maybe more a year, will have postpartum psychosis.

44:47So it's not that uncommon. and we must deal with it. And I think that's what we're seeing. Yeah, what strikes me when I hear about the case is all the times that she sought help or cried for help and wasn't heard. And I don't know who's rallying for her outside the courthouse, but I got to imagine that they're not cheering the murders of the children. They're saying, I mean, I'm being charitable here, but my guess is that they're saying like, I've been there, as you just said. I mean, she saw a psychiatrist and therapist. She tried any number of medications. She contacted the suicide hotline, several emergency services.

45:29She was discharged from the emergency department after trying to admit herself for postpartum depression. I mean, I can't even believe all the time she tried to get help and people just ignored her. You know, at the Motherhood Center that has been around now almost 10 years, We hear this all the time. People go for help and they are not, they go, they say what they can. They're trying to get someone to listen. And really there are a lack of experts who understand this and recognize it. We don't have enough trained professionals doing this. And this is a, these are tricky diagnoses because it can look a lot like postpartum for anybody, right?

46:11People aren't sleeping well, eating well, can't concentrate. They feel kind of low and tired, exhausted. And those can be signs and symptoms of depression. And in the worst case, it can be signs and symptoms of psychosis when there's truly a lack of sleep and sort of an energized feeling. And it can wax and wane. So honestly, I get how it's missed. You really have to be trained to understand what it is to diagnose and treat this, which is why the awareness of it and the education around it is so essential. What do you recommend if one of our viewers right now watching at home is struggling with some sort of perinatal mental health disorder or has a loved one dealing with one?

46:53What do they need to do? Well, I really commend people who keep pushing. I mean, it can be the hardest time to keep asking for help, but our loved ones and family and friends are seeing us not seem normal, right? We somehow seem out of our usual character. So if we're seeing that, help them, be an advocate, go with them. Don't take no for an answer, right? Keep pushing and going and finding someone who will listen. And sometimes it takes finding that expert, their postpartum support international. There are a lot of organizations that really can help support women and families when they're struggling.

47:38So the help is out there. There's not enough. We need better access. We need insurance coverage. There's so many problems, but this is a hopeful condition. This is a fully treatable. What happened, so unfortunate and tragic, but postpartum psychosis is temporary. It's treatable and women fully recover from it. And when they're not treated, horrible things can happen. Dr. Catherine Berndorf, thank you so much for your time today. And if you or someone you know is in crisis and needs help, please call the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Someone there is available 24 hours, seven days a week.

48:17The number to call or text anytime is 988. That number is 988. There is help for you. There is love for you.

48:26Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. A racist, a con man, a Cheeto-dusted cartoon villain, Michael Cohen, used all of those words to describe Donald Trump, and now Cohen tells me his relationship with Trump is, quote, being resuscitated. And in fact, the two sat down for a lengthy radio interview for Cohen's radio show. And we're standing by for the first clip to be released any moment. Plus, federal agents seizing electronic devices from former Congressman Eric Swalwell before raiding his home in Washington, D.C. Sources say this is part of an ongoing investigation connected to allegations that Swalwell committed sexual assault.

49:00A former top FBI official is here to weigh in. Also, breaking news out of New York where a woman has been charged in connection with a plot to set off a bomb in the New York State Capitol. Officials say the 35-year-old was radicalized online and inspired by ISIS. What we're learning about her arrest ahead. And the The Artemis 2 crew captured the world's attention as they slingshot it around the moon and now the Artemis 3 crew is getting ready for a mission that's never been attempted before. And tonight we're lucky enough to be joined by Artemis 3 commander Randy Bresnik for a look inside his training and an update on when they're set to launch.

49:40The lead tonight from bitter enemies to being besties again? It might be a stretch, but it's certainly not impossible considering one of them once claimed he would take a bullet for the other. Spoiler, it wasn't President Trump that said that. But Trump did sit down today for a taped, recorded phone interview with the former fixer that he once called a rat and a liar. That's Michael Cohen. Yes, the Michael Cohen who nearly eight years ago pleaded guilty and implicated Trump in that hush money scheme with porn actress and director Stormy Daniels. The man who testified in a 2019 congressional hearing accusing Trump of being racist, a con man, and a cheat, and the man who, after serving prison time, wrote two tell-all books, one titled Disloyal, the other titled Revenge.

50:22This is what Michael Cohen told me a few minutes ago about how his interview with the president went. We forgave, and not because the past didn't happen, not because the scars disappeared, not because every disagreement suddenly becomes irrelevant and certainly not because I have forgotten anything. I have not. But remember this, forgiveness does not require amnesia. It requires the courage to stop allowing yesterday to dictate tomorrow. How would you describe your relationship with the president right now? It's being resuscitated. This hour, we're expecting to get the first clip from Trump, from Cohen's 40-minute interview with President Trump, their first open public conversation since the collapse of their professional and personal relationship more than eight years ago.

51:15CNN's Elena Treen is at the White House. Elena, why was it important for Trump to talk to Cohen now, considering everything that the president is going through? Yeah, it's surprising. And I was surprised when I saw that Michael Cohen had landed an interview with the president. Look, there's a number of things I'd point out. One is that we've seen the president have riffs with people in the past and then smooth those over. It happened with Corey Lewandowski. It happened with his former advisor, David Bossie. But this is different. Michael Cohen is different because he is the one. He was the star witness in the testimony against the president back in 2024 around that Manhattan trial, which Trump was later convicted on for 34 counts of falsifying business records related to those hush money payments to Stormy Daniels.

52:00But I will say this. And, you know, there are some people in the White House and within the president's orbit, Jake, that recognize that having these two men kind of smooth over their relationship could help the president who is actively trying to appeal that 2024 conviction. Now, again, not all people in the White House are in the president's orbit, but at least some believe that could help. I'd remind you that Cohen has said publicly now, and he said this to the president, that he believes people like Letitia James and other prosecutors in New York perhaps coerced him to give that testimony against the president.

52:32So that's a part of this. What I find interesting as well is what's in it for Cohen, because obviously these two have not, you know, sparsed words when it come to a lot of the criticism that they exchange back and forth with each other, including on Cohen's own radio show. And he's made money off of that. But I do think they have a very long history. And Cohen, I think, also misses in some respects being in Trump's orbit, specifically now that he is president once again. But a question I have is, would this reconciliation be happening if President Donald Trump did not win re-election. It's a question I'm not sure Cohen would answer now or if we'll ever actually get an honest answer to, but curious what that would be.

53:10And I'm also very curious to see how the president is, what his vibe is like in this interview with Cohen. Because again, there's a lot of history here. There's a lot of people who surround the president who are close to him, his most loyal advisors here in the West Wing, who still have a lot of animus toward Cohen for what he did. A lot of people who were with the president when he was going through that trial. So I'm curious to see what the vibe will be on air when this interview airs. Yeah, and we should note that Cohen did say when I talked to him a few minutes ago that he had submitted a pardon application to President Trump.

53:42It does seem not incidental. Elena Trine at the White House, thanks so much. We're going to bring you that first clip from Michael Cohen's WABC interview with Trump shortly. But first, I want to bring in Republican Congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. So there's 75 days until the midterms. Americans are still struggling with high grocery bills, gas prices, housing. They largely do not support the war in Iran. And yet we're about to hear six months on that next week. Trump's latest approval rating, according to a new Reuters-Ipsos poll, is about 33 percent.

54:13Do you wish the president was out there talking more about Americans' biggest concerns in terms of affordability? Well, we certainly are. I was the architect in large part of the house version for the housing affordability law that is now in effect. And we're hearing from manufactured home builders that are talking about increasing production, hiring more folks. I have a steel mill in my hometown of Norfolk, Nebraska. Ran into a Volcraft employee the other day. He said we couldn't be busier. America is booming again. And, yes, it's going to take a little time. But in the big picture, the tax cuts that we passed last year are having an effect.

54:53$10 ,300 on average in the pocket of Nebraskans. That's a win. And we need to get that message out. Well, I mean, polls indicate that they don't, that voters overwhelmingly do not agree with your assessment of the economy. And I will note that that housing bill that you helped write to help people afford homes, President Trump didn't sign it. It became law without his signature. I mean, there was sometimes I look at what he's doing in terms of how much he's talking about construction projects and the war and not talking about the issues that you're talking about. No tax on tips, et cetera. And I think it's almost as if he's trying to lose the midterms for Republicans.

55:33Well, listen, I can I can only control myself. And, you know, inside that working families tax cut bill last year, we increased the child tax care exemption up to two thousand dollars. and we also adjusted it to inflation so it will not lose value. President Trump and his White House worked hand in glove with both the House and the Senate on that housing package. The fact that he didn't sign it, yet it still became law, was more of an effort, I think, on his part to make sure we have election integrity in November. You know, in Nebraska, our elections are safe, but when you've got 6 ,000 people on the rolls in New Jersey that don't belong there, you've got a a lady out in California that registered her dog to vote.

56:14There's a lot of Americans that have issues with that. And I don't think showing an ID is too much to ask. And I think that's common sense. Let's talk about the U.S. hitting$40 trillion in debt. This is how Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent reacted earlier today when asked on how the U.S. can reverse this horrific trend. Take a listen. The$40 trillion is a big number. It is smaller when we look at the publicly traded amount because our Social Security funds and other government entities hold a substantial amount. And what we're going to do, we're going to have to grow our way out of this. You said on the House Financial Services Committee, do you support the idea of having to grow the way out of the U.S.

56:57national debt, or are there more drastic steps that need to be taken? Well, last year we cut$2 trillion out of federal spending through Medicaid reform and fraud. We also had no Democrat support doing that. And I think it's somewhat ironic that the Democrats are saying, wait a second, the debt, the debt, the debt. Well, they opposed us at every corner on every cut that we ultimately made. Even Jody Avington, House Budget Chairman, would tell you it's going to take a combination of restricted federal spending and GDP growth. And you're not going to get to GDP growth without energy independence, without a building boom in America, without on-shoring manufacturing, building homes, and bringing down the cost of housing.

57:45All that's in motion. So when you pair that with what we did last year and we go forward, we are going to make progress on this. Hitting$40 trillion should not please anybody, Republican, Democrat or Independent. We didn't get into it overnight. We're not going to get out of it overnight. Right. But President Trump has been the president for about 25 percent of this$40 trillion. Republicans control the White House, the House, the Senate. The country is on track to hit the debt limit that Republicans raised last summer by 2027. why isn't your party more focused on what's clearly going to be a catastrophe for our children's futures and frankly for generations to come?

58:24I'm sure I don't need to tell you how much of our federal budget goes to just pay down the interest of the debt. That's one of the, if not the biggest part of the pie for our federal budget. Well, to your point, we're spending now more paying the interest than we are in our national defense at current budget levels. The president is focused on this. Have you ever met Russ Vogt? I mean, that guy, there's anything he wouldn't cut. He is the head of the Office of Management and Budget. And when we were putting together Reconciliation 3.0 in the White House, in the West Wing, he shared with us data showing what our spending restraint has done under this president compared to his last term in office.

59:05So I can get that data for you. I think the American people should see it. And frankly, we're the only party concerned about that. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and all the Democrats went wild during COVID. They went wild with the spending. They had this Green New Deal that ended up costing us a lot of money. We cut most of that last year. We made changes that were politically difficult, but they were necessary. And if we're going to get a lecture from Democrats, the lecture should start with them telling us where are they going to cut. Republican Congressman Mike Flatt of Nebraska, Thanks so much, sir.

59:41Appreciate it. Federal agents seizing electronic devices and raiding the home of former Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. Well, we're learning about the multiple investigations into the former congressman and who's been contacted by the FBI.

1:00:00In our Law and Justice League, the FBI has arrested and charged a woman whom they say was plotting to attack the New York State Capitol building in Albany. In the criminal complaint, the bureau says 35-year-old Jessica Bowie pledged allegiance to ISIS and began planning the attack last month. Bowie had plotted to use an explosive device to attack the New York State Capitol and the New York State Senators. Authorities released these images, which they claim show Bowie at a Home Depot purchasing several of the required materials to build the explosive herself. herself. And photos, they say, showing Bowie conducting surveillance at the New York State Capitol at least five times, taking dozens of photos.

1:00:43Joining us now, former deputy director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe. Andrew, how did they figure this out? How did this arrest come to happen? Yeah, Jake, it seems from the complaint that the FBI agents on the Joint Terrorism Task Force first became aware of Bowie through some postings that she was making on social media. She had numerous accounts across several platforms. And in several of those accounts, many were closed or shut down by the providers for violating terms of service. But in the ones that were still up, she was making comments about ISIS and making comments about praising the people who are responsible for the September 11th attack in New York and on the Pentagon.

1:01:26So all that sort of extremist rhetoric seems to be what drew the FBI to Ms. Bowie in the first place. And then it was the time-honored tale of introducing an undercover employee who was able to kind of engage her in conversation and find out exactly what she was up to. Let's turn to the ongoing federal investigation into the sexual assault allegations against former Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. Sources tell CNN that the FBI searched Swalwell's D.C. home on Sunday and seized its electronic devices at the San Francisco airport on Saturday. What do you think federal agents are looking for at his home?

1:02:07Yeah, it's a really interesting question here, Jake, because quite frankly, this is not typically the kind of investigation that the FBI gets involved in. Investigations that involve allegations of sexual assault or sexual misconduct are typically handled at the state or local level, and specifically in the vicinity where the activity allegedly took place. So having an FBI investigation of this is a little odd. We've heard that it may be based on a theory of essentially abuse of power, a civil rights offense, in which someone who, acting with the color of law, denies someone else their constitutional rights.

1:02:45So if that's what they're looking for, we haven't seen the search warrants yet, it's likely the evidence that they are going after on both the cell phones and in the residence is evidence of communications and evidence of contact between Mr. Swalwell and some of these victims. Things like photographs. We know several of the victims have alleged that he sent them inappropriate photographs. So trying to substantiate some of those interactions. and then of course things that he might have said in text messages, email messages, all kinds of kind of association evidence between Swalwell and his alleged victims.

1:03:23But what would he have had to have said in order for this to become a federal case if it's denying somebody their civil rights through abuse of power? What would those text messages or photographs have to show? So, you know, this is a really novel application of that law, I think, to this set of facts. One of the things that it would require is that Swalwell was basically acting or purporting to act within the scope of his official duties at the times that he engaged in this conduct. So if I'm a federal investigator and I'm looking for evidence of that, I want to look to comments by Mr. Swalwell to these people that were responsible for having them travel to meet him, arranging meetings or even social events in which they would be together in the same place at the same time that later turned into alleged attacks.

1:04:28attacks. So they have a tall hill to climb here in any case, because I think proving that a sexual assault was within the scope of his official duties or that he was purporting it was, is going to take some very direct and serious evidence, essentially tying his job to those attacks. And it's not clear to me what would satisfy that at this point. Andrew McCabe, thanks so much. Good to see you. The fourth day of testimony in the Tupac trial is underway right Right now, CNN's teams have been following every update from inside the courtroom, and they're going to bring us up to speed next.

1:05:09In our Law and Justice League, the attorney representing Carmelo Anthony, the Texas teenager who has been convicted of fatally stabbing a track athlete during a high school meet, is asking the new judge on the case for a new trial. Anthony argues that prosecutors did not follow through with the off-the-record agreement and that the original judge on the case, who was removed yesterday, allowed a shadow docket that kept information out of the trial. Carmelo Anthony is now 19 years old. He was sentenced to 35 years in prison for fatally stabbing Austin Metcalfe. Also in our Law and Justice League, day four of testimony wrapped in the murder trial of Dwayne Keffy D.

1:05:49Davis, the man accused of orchestrating the killing of Tupac Shakur. Just yesterday, the jury heard differing versions of whom Davis said killed the beloved rapper. A former FBI agent testified that two years after the murder, Davis blamed Compton police, allegedly working for former record executive Suge Knight. But a former LAPD detective also testified and gave a different account, alleging that Davis told him that his own crew carried out the attack on Tupac. Mr. Davis had the gun at first, but they came up on the passenger side of Suge Knight in Mr. Shakura's vehicle, so he couldn't shoot across the driver.

1:06:33So he handed the gun to Dre in the back seat, Andre Smith. He was afraid to shoot. Mr. Anderson grabbed the gun and shot across Mr. Smith into Mr. Knight's car that Mr. Tupac Shakur was in with Mr. Knight. Joining us now is CNN senior correspondent Josh Campbell. Josh, what's happening in court right now? Well, it gets to exactly what you were just playing and that which version of Davis's comments are actually true. What he said before when he was saying that, no, this was corrupt police officers who were behind this killing or him actually telling law enforcement officers that he was there that day and in the car.

1:07:13And what's so powerful is, you know, we've heard up to this point from different law enforcement officers who are testifying. But right now, Jake, as you and I speak, Davis's own words are being played to the jury based on that past law enforcement interview. And what he said is exactly what the LAPD officer said there. He says that on the night that Tupac Shakur was shot, he and his nephew and others were in a car that pulled alongside Shakur's car. He said that he had the gun, him being Davis, the person on trial, he handed that gun to his nephew Orlando, who then fired the fatal shots that killed Tupac Shakur.

1:07:48Interestingly, at the time, Davis told law enforcement officers that if Tupac's car had come onto his side of the street, he himself would have done the firing. So you have to wonder how impactful that will be on the jury. Also just in, Jake, they are now discussing, and this is really, really fascinating, that Davis is saying that it was Sean Diddy Combs, who, of course, we're now all well aware of, the disgraced media mogul, that Davis testifies wanted Tupac Shakur dead, as well as rap producer Suge Knight, and said that Combs had actually offered up a very large bounty to have it done, saying that he was angry with past humiliation that Suge Knight had allegedly done, you know, towards Combs.

1:08:31That part, very interesting. We should note that we have reached out to Combs' team for additional comment we have not yet heard back. He denied in past media interviews that he had anything to do with this killing. There's always a risk for defendants to expose themselves to cross-examination. Giving these conflicting statements, what's the likelihood that Dwayne Davis is going to take the stand, do you think? You know, it is still, I think, too hard to tell because there's so long left in this trial. We're talking about, you know, potentially 200 witnesses on the witness list itself. Now, most of those won't actually be testifying, but there are still several weeks to go.

1:09:03And so you would imagine, we would imagine that the defense is calibrating day by day what would be the possible, you know, positive outcome to have that happen. Obviously, there's always great risk if Davis is then confronted on his own past statements. One thing I will note, Jake, and again, we're still in the first week, this is day four, but based on the questions that the jury has been asking to different witnesses, The defense is trying to create this narrative that there was shoddy police work done here with this investigation, that records weren't kept as they should have been, that law enforcement didn't follow up as they should have since this investigation has been underway.

1:09:40Some of the jury questions have seemed to point to just that, asking essentially, you know, why didn't the police follow up on a lot of this? So I mention that because if that doubt is seated in the jury, and remember it only takes one to keep a conviction from going through here, that could be one thing that the defense is paying very close attention to. But to your point, we'll have to wait and see whether he actually goes on the stand and answers questions himself. All right, Josh Campbell, thanks so much. After years of nasty insults, Michael Cohen is telling me that his relationship with Donald Trump is, quote, being resuscitated.

1:10:10The former friends turned mortal enemies just sat down for a radio interview. Cohen interviewing Trump. We're standing by for that first clip. That's ahead.

1:10:23The countdown to America's next moon adventure is on in our out of this world lead. NASA says it is extremely confident that Artemis 3 will launch next year and the massive rocket could roll out as soon as November. The mission, we're told, will test critical systems and rehearse the complex rendezvous and docking operations needing for a future lunar landing. Here to help us break it all down is Artemis III Commander Randy Comrade-Bresnik. Sir, good to see you as always. NASA says it's extremely confident Artemis III will launch next year with the rocket potentially rolling out as soon as November.

1:10:58How does that change the way you're preparing right now, and how close does this make the mission feel? Well, certainly there's a sense of urgency, as there always is, with anything that has a very short timeline. And so, Jake, we appreciate the fact that we've got a team that has just flown the Artemis II mission very successfully, just four months ago, that was completely ready to go and take our crew when we were assigned two months ago and get us ready for this mission that could be as early as 10 months from now. Artemis II certainly captured the country's attention, if not the world's. What do you want Artemis III to accomplish that might feel different, maybe even more consequential?

1:11:41Well, certainly, you know, we show that Orion could operate in deep space, and it operated very well. And the communications systems, the environmental and life control systems kept the humans alive and in, you know, good spirits to be able to execute their mission. And so this time, knowing that the SLS rocket would be on its third flight, Orion on its second crew flight, you know, the risk has already been bought down a lot. We expect those systems to operate well. Now it's the, okay, now can Blue Origin, with their new Glenn, launch the Earth orbit rendezvous lander and get it up in space so we can then launch after them and work that choreography between the two super heavy launchers to get both these spacecraft into space.

1:12:22And then days later when we're done rendezvous with the Blue Origin vehicle, then SpaceX is going to launch their Starship on their Super Heavy and send that up for us to dock with as well. So it's just complex choreography is allowing us to have certainly a much different training profile than the Artemis II crew had, where we're doing Orion training right now. In the fall, we'll be getting more information and more simulation capability to be able to do the flying with the lunar landers, the two of them that will be up there. And so we are moving and everyone is working, you know, you see it's a whole of industry, whole of NASA, whole of government effort to be able to get all these vehicles in time to have this launch cadence and this accelerated schedule of Artemis.

1:13:08Yeah. All so that we can buy down risk and then do a lunar landing on the next mission. Sounds intense. How often are you communicating with the Artemis 2 crew, if at all? we certainly had a lot of meetings and and uh briefings with them as soon as they got back just just us and them hey how did it really work what did you really learn what were the most important things that you take away and that you would suggest for us and so that's been invaluable um and then certainly now uh as they are you know doing their post flight tour and stuff like that we've been able to reach out at any time with any questions we have and certainly they had did a wonderful job along with our mission control teams and our flight control teams at kind of paving the way.

1:13:50And so there are some similarities and a lot of things that we do not have to go reinvent the wheel on. We just now have to take and adapt our profile from a lunar trajectory to the Earth orbit one. And when we're doing actual rendezvous with spacecraft and using the docking camera and the LIDAR systems and the docking mechanisms to actually dock with the spacecraft this time, which is the next step beyond and buying down risk for doing that in the lunar orbit on the next mission. The mission, as you noted, involves an extraordinary number of moving pieces. And it's ultimately part of NASA's push toward not just a moon landing, but Mars.

1:14:27How much of what you're doing now is in service to preparation for sending humans to Mars? I mean, I like to think of it as all of it is. I mean, we have to prove these capabilities, operational capabilities or technologies to be able to go land on the moon. And to me, just about everything we're doing on the moon applies to Mars. You know, not only the deep space, you know, time and deep space for the radiation hardening of our vehicles and navigation, the communications, but actually landing on another celestial body and being able to operate there. To me, if you're able to operate on the moon with your rovers and your spacesuits and your habitats, you think about the lunar rock being the most, you know, abrasive stuff that we have in our solar system because there is no atmosphere.

1:15:16It's just smashed, pulverized rock as if you were like taking glass bottles, smashing it and walking on the glass. Whereas Mars, well, we know it has an atmosphere. It has dust storms. It had, you know, we think water at some point. And so the rocks tumble. The sand moves. And so that stuff is not as abrasive. So if the stuff that we have for mobility and gears and hatch seals and things like that work on the moon, that's a whole lot of risk we have bought down for Mars. And now it is the risk of going on the long journey in deep space to Mars, landing in a space where there's some atmosphere but not no atmosphere, landing where there's one-third Earth's gravity, one-sixth Earth's gravity like there is on the moon.

1:15:53These are all things that are different, but shouldn't be insurmountable compared to the challenges we had just landing on the moon, our neighbor, just a few days away. All right. Fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Commander Randy Bresnik, appreciate it. Thank you, Jay. Take care. Last hour, I spoke with Michael Cohen, the president's former fixer who just interviewed President Trump himself. Regardless of their years long feud, we're going to have the first clip from that scintillating interview coming up.

1:16:30We're back with our politics lead. President Trump and Michael Cohen publicly patching up their fraught relationship in a 40-minute taped phone interview. Cohen telling me in the last hour that his relationship with the president is being resuscitated. A clip of their interview just aired. Trump let it rip, blasting CNN, offering familiar talking points on Iran. And Cohen clearly deferring to his old boss. boss you remember when i was by your side i literally used to analyze the polls right and you remember how much attention that i used to pay to that methodology i would come in i would say to you oh you know they're claiming that you're 31 that you're underwater but i showed you that the polls are exactly the reporters as you know are crooked but many of them you have some great ones too but for the most part it's it's really but the sample size is roughly you read the New York Times, it's so dishonest.

1:17:25When you read these things and they're not doing well, look, the reason they're not doing well is because they've lost a lot of credibility. Now, you do have great journalists. You do have great reporters. Also, many people are very good, very, very good. I can name them, but by naming them, I'll leave some out. But you also have a lot of people that see how good things are, see how good things are with the economy is a renaissance. There's never been anything like it. We had the greatest economy ever in my first term. This is going to blow it away. The panel joins us now. Jonah Goldberg, slightly deferential, falling into familiar patterns perhaps?

1:18:02Yeah, he's got muscle memory in that regard. Look, rarely have I been so torn about something that matters so little to me. I didn't have a lot of respect for Michael Cohen when he first burst on the scene as Trump's hatchet man. And I didn't have a lot of respect for him when he became a dashboard saint of the anti-Trump resistance. And now that he is in this strange limbo of, you know, will Ross and Rachel get back together for politics? I still don't care about him. I don't think, I think he's, he's a middle-brow jabroni. And to use a phrase from your native Philadelphia. I appreciate it. And I really, I don't know what to make of it beyond that.

1:18:47I I think it's weird. David Chalian, let's move to the midterms. 75 days until the midterms. Timing's everything. In this interview, do you think this is just another distraction? Is there any thought behind it? It seems to me like President Trump, he's talking a lot about stuff that is not on the minds of voters. A lot on the construction projects. A lot on the construction projects, which we know voters see as a total distraction from what they believe should be the priorities. I don't know that this interview is a distraction, though it is not clear. It is clear to me what Michael Cohen gets out of this.

1:19:19It is not clear to me what Donald Trump gets out of this. That is less clear to me. But I don't think he's doing this to distract from his poor approval ratings standing. I mean, as you know, the strategy from the White House when it comes to the midterms is, as Susie Wiles said, to put Donald Trump on the ballot. They believe the only potential that they have as a way to mitigate the historic norms of midterms and any kind of blue wave that may be building is to have him front and center, despite his unpopularity, to try and bring out his voters without him really physically being on the ballot.

1:19:56And to do a total contrast with Democrats on the communism-socialism thing, because they think that'll instill enough fear to bring people out. I don't know if all of that is going to be successful enough to counteract the historic norms. I should correct myself, because I said he seems to be talking a lot about construction projects. He's also talking a lot about rallies. And here he is on WABC with Michael Cohen talking about the rallies. The rallies are potentially bigger than ever. I mean, if we did rallies as an example, if we did rallies now, nobody ever had rallies like this. Their potential, I think they're bigger than ever.

1:20:32There's a great spirit for what's going on, especially in light of what's happening with all these crazy theories and policies and lunatics that are running. You have lunatics that would destroy the country and they're being put in the Democrat Party. I mean, you just heard it. There is the contrast message that they are going to run on because it's hard to run on something that is sort of touting a success when the country sees him focused on the wrong priorities and they think he's not his policies have made their economic lives harder. So it is a smarter campaign strategy to do a full contrast.

1:21:09As for rallies, I do believe we're going to see him out there a lot this fall. Smarter campaign strategies doing a lot of work. The question is, what districts does it make sense to have him do rallies in, right? I mean, I don't know the answer to that, but it seems to me like the places where you get the best turnout for his rallies are not the districts they're worried about losing. Correct. No, exactly. Kerry, you have covered Michael Cohen for a long time. Take a listen to what Cohen told me he did regarding both the Biden and the current Trump administration. That might shed some light on what's going on here.

1:21:41prior to trump taking office i did have a pardon application in with president biden joe biden came and went 1201 i receive an email that says denied what i did is i took that same application with the same documentation and i just rewrote the cover letter removing the name of president Joe Biden and inserting the name President Donald Trump. Kara, what did you make of that? I mean, well, Jake, that certainly may be one of the motivations that Michael Cohen has here. You know, even though he has already served his time after pleading guilty, there are some issues that come up with having a conviction under your name and some liberties that he has lost as a result of that.

1:22:27One other thing, and only Michael Cohen could really answer this, but you look at what Trump's Justice Department has done in their prioritization of the weaponization working group, how they have gone after some of Trump's perceived enemies through investigations and even indictments against New York Attorney General Letitia James and former FBI Director James Comey, you know, those cases could show what happens to some of Trump's perceived enemies, with Michael Cohen now coming out saying that he had felt that he was pressured and coerced by the New York Attorney General and the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to testify against Trump.

1:23:01That could be a partial motivation here, although, of course, that's for Michael Cohen to say. Jonah, what do you think? I mean, do you think the pardon is a lot about what's going on here, pardon application? I mean, I could see some sort of 4-D chess theory about, you know, making a point about he actually does believe in this weaponization stuff. He's even pardoned someone who was such a thorn in the side and such a quote-unquote enemy and all that. Although that prosecution happened during the Trump administration. Yeah, I mean, look, again, I don't think it's super plausible. Also, on the midterms part, it doesn't really signal he cares about people like you, that he's going to go and pardon maybe, which I don't think he will, Michael Cohen, but I don't know.

1:23:45It's also strange. Do you see any midterm strategy here at all? No, no. I think on the construction stuff and all this, Trump's an old guy. He wants to do stuff he's really comfortable doing. He knows how to talk about construction. He knows how to talk about rallies. He knows how to do his... Like, you might as well... It's like taking a lighter to a Skynyrd concert and shouting Freebird. He wants to do Freebird. And talking about construction, talking about rallies, that's his Freebird. He's playing the hits. Thank you all. Appreciate it. Coming up next, we're taking a look at how Trump's immigration crackdown is impacting families and businesses in one Maryland town where advocates say some people are afraid to even leave their homes.

1:24:29And the national lead, empty stores, vacant restaurants, abandoned children. That's what members of a Haitian community in Maryland say they've experienced since the Trump administration ended TPS or temporary protected status for thousands of immigrants last month. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez reports. Nothing. Nobody come over. Nobody buys anything. Business for Michelle, a U.S. citizen who emigrated from Haiti, has plummeted. Her customers, primarily Haitians, have gone into hiding over fear of ice, leaving her store, which was bustling only a few weeks ago, largely dormant. My freezer is empty right now.

1:25:11I try to cut down. I shut two freezers down. When did you make this decision? Last week. You just have to do what you have to do. In Salisbury, Maryland, around 10 percent of the population is Haitian. Now they're the target of ICE operations. We used to be, you know, together everywhere. Now, like they took my brother, you can't be like in a group, three, four people. You feel like you're going to get arrested. The tipping point happened in late July, when the Supreme Court effectively allowed the Trump administration to end temporary protected status for Haitians. A day later, Michelle's brother, who previously had TPS, was detained by ICE.

1:25:53Oh, he's my brother. Maurice is calling you from Wynn Correctional Center. Hello. Hey, Mr. Moore. Has anybody spoken with you in the facility? Maurice told us that he was asked to sign papers with the promise of money if he were to leave the U.S. Maurice, who had previously applied for a green card, was arrested by ICE at this garage, where he worked about five minutes down the road from Michelle's store. That's basically where they took him. What was that moment like for you getting that phone call? Devastating. He's been here for more than 20 years. And then something happened like that, and he hasn't prepared for it.

1:26:38It's happening suddenly. Everything changed. The economy here depends in large part on Haitians. They work at the nearby poultry plants, among other industries. I like the goat meat. Oh, really? Yeah. All right, I'm going to give it a shot. Restaurants, once frequented by Haitians, are examples of a community paralyzed. So how have you experienced that switch just turning off? I cannot find words.

1:27:09it's um it's like a nightmare i have two men actually who reach out asking me if i would be willing to sign the standby guardianship for their kids have you gone to homes where children yes didn't their parents didn't make it back we had to visit them We have to step in. How old are they? We are talking about a four-years-old. Dad was taken. We are talking about another girl. She just turned three. Dad was taken. It's a ripple effect. When you decimate one group or you disrupt one group, everything that that group touches also gets affected. That's true for Michelle. her business and her brother's future are now uncertain.

1:28:04So how are you thinking about tomorrow and the next day and the next day? We don't know what tomorrow will be. Tomorrow we just put the faith on God. The Trump administration says that temporary protected status is just that, temporary. The Department of Homeland Security told CNN that Maurice had been the target of an enforcement operation after illegally entering the United States on three separate occasions. They went on to say that he does not have lawful status to stay in the country and that, quote, he will remain in ICE custody pending removal. Now, DHS says that people can self-deport, but Haitians, particularly those who have been here for decades and legally living and working in the U.S., say that they have nowhere to go back to, given that their country is still grappling with unrest.

1:28:51Back to you. Our thanks to Priscilla Alvarez for that report. Erin Burnett Outfront starts now.

1:29:05Go inside the sports moments that brought us together and made history. From the underdogs to the rivalries and the miracles. It sends chills down your spine. It's what sport was all about. The new CNN original series, Decades in Sports. Now streaming on the CNN app.