Pope Leo: “Woe to Those Who Manipulate Religion”

25:24She skipped it. She continues to avoid our committee. We're going to hold her in contempt. We are writing up the contempt charges over the course of these next few days. She's made aware of what she needs to do. She has to negotiate coming in front of our committee. She has no other choice, and so we are going to hold her in contempt. If you have the votes, right? Because the reason I ask is because last month, Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee, he voted to subpoena Bondi, but he now doesn't seem to be supportive of holding her in contempt. He told The Hill, quote, she's out. Let's get somebody in that knows what's going on.

25:57Unquote. Do you have the votes to bring contempt charges against her? We're obviously talking to a couple of key Republicans that have been very involved in holding the attorney general accountable. we think if this makes the floor, that we can actually build a bipartisan coalition to hold her in contempt. And what's also really important at this moment is she has to understand that the reason we need questions answered is because not only are we asking for this testimony, but so are the survivors. And both Republicans and Democrats should want to hear the truth from the AG. She's no longer a member of this administration, but she still has important information about our investigation.

26:33Why are 50 percent of the files still not in our possession? Why has there been this cover-up? Why was this called a hoax? Only she can answer these questions, so she needs to do the right thing and sit in front of our committee. This week, the acting attorney general, former Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, was asked about Trump's Truth Social post from last September, where he appeared to be pressuring then-Attorney General Bondi to investigate his political opponents, James Comey, Adam Schiff, Letitia James. Here is what Todd Blanche had to say about that. Take a listen. That type of communication from President Trump should make every American happy, because it means that there's an executive, a chief executive, that is making sure every one of his cabinet members are working as hard as they should.

27:17It's not just him that does that. Citizens do that all the time. Agents do that all the time. That's exactly how cases are made. Cases are made by individuals, by organizations, identifying people that they think are committing crimes. What was your reaction to that? I think first it's important to remind folks that Todd Blanche is the former personal lawyer of Donald Trump. And the second thing that's important is the DOJ does not work for the White House. It should be out there doing the work of the American people in the Constitution. And what Todd Blanche is saying is completely against the spirit of the Constitution and the relationship between the DOJ and the executive in the White House.

27:58We've got to be focused on the truth and transparency. The DOJ is focused on weaponizing the government and going after Donald Trump's political enemies. And so anytime Donald Trump goes out and posts on a social media platform or says something crazy about who he believes are his enemies, the DOJ begins acting. That's not the way that the government is supposed to work. And that is actually government corruption. It's happened in the Epstein files. It's happening as Trump goes after members of Congress and the court. So we've got to continue to call it out. And Todd Blanche should not be confirmed as AG if he's put forward.

28:33Before you go, just very quickly, if you could, what was your reaction to the first lady calling a press conference and talking about how she has no connection to Epstein, et cetera? I mean, look, it was obviously very strange and bizarre and very unexpected. I think the first lady, if she really wants to help us investigation, she can turn to her husband and ask him to release the rest of the files. But it's also clear that unlike her husband, She does not believe that this is a hoax. She actually believes it's an act of real investigation and that that should continue. And so if the First Lady is watching or wants to help, ask the president to release the files and tell Pam Bondi, her friend, to come and testify before the committee.

29:10Congressman Robert Garcia, Democrat of California. Thank you, sir. Coming up, President Trump's deepening frustration with NATO allies, what we heard from him today. It makes us wonder if the 77-year-old alliance might be soon over. My next guest has unique insights as the former Secretary General of NATO. Stay coming up after the break.

29:35Returning to our world lead as he was leaving the White House this afternoon, President Trump once again expressed disappointment over NATO not contributing to the U.S. military action against Iran. They've had problems over the years we were there. When we asked them to get involved on a very minor skirmish by comparison to what it could be, they weren't there. So I don't think they'd be there for a large skirmish, and therefore I think they've got themselves a problem. Wall Street Journal is reporting that Europe is accelerating a fallback plan for NATO in case President Trump ultimately decides to pull the United States out of the alliance.

30:12According to the Journal, quote, the plans first conceived last year underscore the depth of European anxiety over U.S. reliability. They accelerated after Trump threatened to seize Greenland from fellow NATO member Denmark and are now gaining fresh urgency amid the standoff over Europe's refusal to back America's war in Iran, unquote. With us now to discuss former NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. He's now Norway's finance minister. Also, we should note he's author of the brand new book, or it's not brand new, I guess, but new-ish book, On My Watch, Leading NATO in a Time of War. What do I call you now?

30:45Minister? Secretary General? I don't even know. Minister. Minister. Minister Stoltenberg, thanks so much for being here. So let me start with the split over Greenland before I get to what's going on today. Because last month, the New York Times reported that during military exercises in Greenland, January, with other European nations, including Norway, Denmark sent blood supplies, live ammunition, explosives to blow up airfields in the event of an actual U.S. invasion. So what can you tell us about those military exercises. How worried were you that President Trump was actually going to militarily seize Greenland?

31:24There were concerns, but at the same time, I think all NATO allies really expected the U.S. to respect the borders of an ally. It's unacceptable to try to take the territory of another country, especially if that other country is a NATO ally. Yeah. You're sending blood supplies, land of ammo, explosives. That says to me that you took it at least somewhat seriously. Yes, but I'm not able to speak on behalf of Denmark. What they did and what they had plans for, I don't know. But what I do know is that Norway, all the European NATO allies, they have been very clear in stating the obvious that Greenland is part of the kingdom of Denmark.

32:08And that's for the Danes and the people of Greenland to decide their future. I actually discussed this issue with President Trump back in 2019 when I was Secretary General. Then he raised the issue of taking over Greenland the first time. And then I told him that last time a country tried to take Greenland, it was Norway, my country. That was back in 1931. We annexed actually East Greenland. The Danes took us to the International Court in Den Haag, and we lost on all points. So, if anything, there is a very clear international court ruling stating that Greenland is part of Denmark. Do you think, as we're discussing this fallback plan, do you think that the US is a reliable ally for NATO, for Europe?

32:54I think at least it is important that we do what we can from the European side to ensure that the US is a reliable ally in the future and that we build on what we have created together over all these years. There are problems, there are questions asked, and that's fully understandable because there are disagreements on some important issues. But the reason why I believe that NATO should and must prevail is that NATO is good for Europe, but it's also good for United States. The US is big, 25 % of the world's GDP. But together with NATO allies, we are 50 % of the world's economic might and 50 % of the world's military might.

33:35So the US is safer with NATO than without. And in NATO, the US has something Russia, China doesn't have at all. And that is more than 30 friends and allies. You say that President Trump's threats to pull out of NATO need to be taken seriously and that NATO's future over the next decade is not guaranteed. Can you explain your thinking on these issues beyond what you just said? Well, my thinking is that, you know, NATO is an expression of political will. And of course, the will has to be there to maintain NATO. And we don't have guarantees for that. But what we have is almost eight years of the success of the strongest alliance in history.

34:14And of course, there have been crisis and problems from the Suez crisis in 56 to when France left the military cooperation in the 60s or the Iraq war. But we have always been able to overcome those crises. And that's because we realize that we are safer together than apart. And I believe that interest matters in politics. And my conviction is that it's in the US interest to have NATO. I can just give you one example. This is not all about resources, but also about geography. Norway's bordering Russia. On the other side of our land border, we have the highest concentration of nuclear weapons in the world, missiles, submarines, bombers.

34:55They are not directed at Norway. They are directed at the United States. But we help you to track the submarines, to follow the bombers. And we hand over all that information to you. So the US actually has early warning. It's part of your homeland defense to have Norway as an ally in NATO. Even before the stress of Iran, even before the stress over Greenland, there was the stress over Ukraine, the tensions. And in fact, Vice President Vance just said the other day that it's one of his proudest achievements to end the US funding for Ukraine. in a massive drone and missile bombardment overnight.

35:31Russia strikes across Ukraine, killed 18 people, injured more than 100. And the Trump administration has pretty much left the war on Ukraine up to NATO at this point, and the Europeans. Should the long-term aim, do you think, to be, should it be to bring Ukraine into NATO? The long-term aim should be that. Then I think we need to be prepared that that will take some time. So in the meantime, we need to support Ukraine and to arm them and enable them to stop the Russian attacks on their country. I don't think we can change Putin's mind. His ambition is to control Ukraine. But I do think that we can change President Putin's calculus.

36:15If the price he has to pay for that is too high, if he loses too many soldiers on the front line and the war creates too many problems in his economy, economy, then he may be forced to sit down and negotiate a deal, an agreement where Ukraine prevails as a sovereign independent nation. So military support to Ukraine is the best way to end the war in Ukraine. Jens Stoltenberg, former head of NATO and the author of On My Watch. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much for having me. I guess that brief affinity, the bromance, whatever it was, is over. This just in, why President Trump just said that New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani is, quote, destroying New York.

37:05And we're back with our health lead and the rise in the number of women using medical marijuana. We're paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta now for this one. He's traveled across the country for the latest documentary in his Weed series. This one looks at a number of reasons why women, young and old, are turning to weed and what the latest research reveals about its impact on health.

37:31Women of all ages, mothers and grandmothers, growing, selling, using cannabis. Women searching for a better, healthier, happier life. I was a soccer mom. Trust me, if we had all had an edible before those games, we would have been great. From menstrual cramps to morning sickness to menopause, women in Oklahoma and all over the United States are turning to cannabis for relief, now more than ever. Women are largely underserved and underrepresented in medicine, and for lack of any other option are more than willing to try cannabis and cannabinoid-based therapies. In fact, for the first time ever, women are outpacing men in the use of cannabis.

38:15These women say they are changing their lives and their health for the better, but in some cases, also potentially putting themselves in harm's way. The scientists searching for answers are all research pioneers. And perhaps no surprise, many happen to be women as well. And Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now. Sanjay, Oklahoma, it's not the first state that comes to mind when you think of medical marijuana. How did you end up there? Well, this is one of the last states really to legalize medical marijuana, sort of in the heartland. But what was so interesting is that as soon as it was legalized, this is back in 2018, this green rush sort of began in Oklahoma.

38:59And it's a state of four million people, about 400 ,000, about 10 % have medical marijuana cards. And it was sort of a microcosm, I think, of what's happening around the country. And also, as you just saw in that clip there, so many of the dispensary owners and growers and sellers and all that are women. So that's really what's driving this tremendous growth right now. Does the use of cannabis by women differ in any important ways from the use of cannabis by men? Yeah, I think so. This is really interesting. So first of all, when you look specifically at where this growth is coming from, again, women outpacing men for the first time in terms of use of cannabis.

39:41But if you drill down on that, the biggest growth is happening among women between the ages of 45 and 60, which I found really interesting. And when we talk to so many of these women, I mean, these are women who are in perimenopause or menopause. They're looking for something to help them with these symptoms. And a lot of times, they just, you know, a lot of times their symptoms have been minimized. They haven't had good options with what's out there right now. So perhaps no surprise, they're increasingly turning to alternatives. So that's, I think, what's really driving it. Among men, it's more likely to be recreational.

40:16Among women, more likely to be medicinal. And again, that older age group in particular, Jake. Interesting stuff. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. And Sanjay is taking your questions on this subject. You can scan the QR code on your screen right now if you want to submit a question. And Sanjay will be back tomorrow to answer some of your questions. And don't miss Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports. Weed 8, Women in Weed. That's this Sunday night at 8 Eastern, only on CNN. And then the next day you can watch it on the CNN app.

40:47Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump sounding optimistic about a potential deal with Iran, saying the U.S. has, quote, a lot of agreement with Tehran. U.S. officials also tell CNN that troops in the Middle East are rearming and ready to resume combat if these ceasefire talks fail. We're going to go live to the White House for an update in just moments. Plus, fresh off their history-making mission, the Artemis II astronauts took questions this afternoon at the Johnson Space Center. The crew sharing their surprise at how much global attention their journey got, describing the moment their capsule went into freefall as like, quote, if you dove off a skyscraper backwards.

41:25CNN's Erin Burnett just wrapped up an interview with the astronaut. She's going to share more of that ahead. Also, we're learning new details about the suspect accused of throwing a Molotov cocktail at the home of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. Police say he also tried to break into the company's offices and was carrying a manifesto. Hear comments that the suspect made just a few months ago when he was interviewed on a tech podcast.

41:54The lead tonight, President Trump teasing another round of peace talks between the U.S. and Iran. As soon as this weekend, the president now optimistic, he says, that his negotiators are making progress after their failed attempts last Saturday. There's now less than one week before the U.S. truce with Iran expires. Iran wants to make a deal, and we're dealing very nicely with them. We've got to have no nuclear weapons. If we do, that's a big factor. and they're willing to do things today that they weren't willing to do two months ago. President Trump also announcing a 10-day ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon, or more specifically Hezbollah.

42:34That's set to take effect as of 5 p.m. Eastern time. It's a key move for peace talks in the region as Israel's continued strikes on the Iranian proxy group Hezbollah inside Lebanon threatened to wreak havoc on negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. Despite signs of progress, Trump says the U.S. will resume strikes on Iran if a deal is not made before next week. Let's bring in CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Caitlin Collins. Caitlin, what's the latest? Yeah, Jake, the president had a pretty extended Q &A session with reporters as he was leaving the White House for Nevada earlier today. And obviously there were many questions on Iran.

43:06He did seem to differ a bit on whether or not he's willing to extend that ceasefire agreement that he has struck with Iran, which is set to expire next Tuesday, just a few days from now. And there have been some questions about whether or not he would be willing to do so. So he wavered at times from saying yes, that he would be willing if the talks were going well, to at other times saying he didn't think he'd have to extend it. Obviously, that still remains to be seen. But largely, Jake, he was pretty optimistic about the state of these talks and where they are headed. And at one point he told us that Iran had agreed to not having a nuclear weapon, to not enriching uranium, to letting the United States get that enriched uranium.

43:41Those are things that we've heard from the president in the past. There are things we've heard from Iran in the past. And so it's still a question of what's left for the United States and Iran to nail down as part of this. But one big part that the president was touting today was the ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon, that they are striking in Lebanon, that the president sounded very hopeful about as he talked about that. And so still a lot of questions, Jake, about what's going to happen going forward. There was a point where the president was talking about potential talks happening in Pakistan.

44:11again, a second round of talks, where he said at one point, if the talks are far enough along, Jake, that he would be willing to go to Pakistan. But he seemed to say that that was not happening anytime soon, but certainly something that was at least on the table. Kaitlin, you also asked the president about his back and forth this week with the Pope. What did he have to say? I mean, it hasn't ended, Jake. And the president has gone from criticizing the Pope because he simply argued against the war in Iran, saying that there should be peace, talking about the lives that have been lost as a result of this.

44:43And so I just asked the president pretty simply why he is fighting with the Pope. Why are you fighting with the Pope? And are you worried it's upsetting your even-delivered supporters of the Capitol? I have to do what's right. The Pope has to understand that, very simple, I have nothing against the Pope. His brother's MAGA all the way. I like his brother. Why are you fighting with him? I'm not fighting with him. The Pope made a statement. He says Iran can have a nuclear weapon. I say Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. Of course, Jake, the Pope did not say that Iran should have a nuclear weapon.

45:16But clearly this is a back and forth between the president with the Pope that he is continuing. All right, Caitlin Collins, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Don't miss Caitlin on our show, The Source with Caitlin Collins. That's tonight on 9 Eastern, only on CNN. And let's talk about this now with Montana Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke, also a former U.S. Navy SEAL Team Commander for SEAL Team 6. Thanks so much for being here. Good to see you again. Great to be with you again, Jake. So the president weighed in about what could happen with the ceasefire if a deal with Iran is not reached before the ceasefire expires.

45:46Take a listen. I'm not sure it needs to be extended. I would say the fighting, if there's no deal, fight or resume. How much longer do you think the American people will realistically have patience for the fighting to continue, for this war to continue? I think most people that look at it understand three things. One is Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. Two, they cannot have enriched material. And three, they cannot have an arsenal of evil. And you look at the oil crisis we're having now. This is over 30 miles of the Straits of Hormuz. Can you imagine if they did have a nuclear weapon? they could hold the whole region in hostage, perhaps globally.

46:25And when they say death to America, death to Israel, you have to believe it. And having a nuclear weapon doesn't have to come in the form of ballistic missile. It can come in the form of a conics box, a shipping container in Houston, in New York, in Washington, D.C. So I think the three things the president has made very, very clear, can't have a nuclear weapon, can't have nuclear material, and you can't have an arsenal for destruction. But there is some hope because the Iranians put Lebanon on the table. There is a ceasefire at least 10 days. I think that's encouraging. And what's really encouraging is I think everyone wants peace.

47:05I want peace. I think Iran wants peace. The region wants peace. And can you imagine a Middle East without a global threat? The Middle East is in a position to blossom economically. And I hope that's the path. Don't you think that at this point, Iran's capabilities when it comes to nuclear, when it comes to enrichment, when it comes to a nuclear weapon, when it comes to ballistic missiles have been so seriously degraded that it is time to declare victory and leave? Not without the assurance that they're not going to have a development program for a nuclear weapon. And we know they have material.

47:44This is not a guess. But isn't the argument, sorry to interrupt, But isn't the argument that they already made an agreement with Obama and they violated that agreement? So, I mean, I guess my question would be, like, how could you even take them on their word if there was another agreement? Well, I'll go back to Ronald Reagan. Trust but verify. Just because they're going to say they have no more nuclear material, there's going to have to be a verification protocol. I would imagine that's inspection. So that's a piece of the negotiations. But overall, you look where Iran is. the first echelon of leadership has been destroyed.

48:21The first and second echelon of military leadership has destroyed. And as you point out, their ballistic capability has largely been diminished and not destroyed. Their navy has been destroyed. They have these attack ships, but they're really not ships. There's a difference between a ship and a boat. These are 40-foot cigarette boats with a machine gun. They have some destructive capability, certainly in mining, but by and large, their ability to project force has been mitigated. And it's interesting to see their neighbors. You know, where do their neighbors sit? I think their neighbors are really concerned, too, about the infrastructure of energy and making sure the Straits of Hamas can deliver energy without, you know, facing mines or missiles.

49:06Sure. So it's interesting because a week ago, President Trump was calling for Iran to open up the Straits of Hormuz. especially with that interestingly worded Easter Day tweet. That was a little rough on Easter. But then now the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz is the United States is doing the blockade. How do you explain this to your constituents? Well, what are we blockading? We're blockading ships coming out of Iran. We certainly are not blockading ships coming out of Straits of Hormuz. We enjoy that. We wish NATO would help us with that. You know, a blockade. Remember that the Straits is only 30 miles and the channel is two miles.

49:47So 30 miles is not very far away from the coast. And you can inflict some damage even with the limited capability they have. You know, one drone to the side of an oil tanker, I can tell you, doesn't go very well. So we are blocking Iran's ability to ship. But it also affects, you know, globally. You look at the cost of oil. It's, you know, somewhere around 100. It should be around 65 to 70. And when the oil prices, it's global costs. When oil prices rise, it affects everyone. It affects your interest rates, your ability to fill your car up, to go to work. So globally, it's not a good thing. So you talked about the president's Easter Day message being a little rough, to say the least.

50:32It's been a very weird few weeks when it comes to this White House administration and religion. The president had that message. Then he had the image of himself as Jesus. Then another image, AI, generated of Jesus with his arm around him. You have Hegseth using all sorts of religious terms to talk about war. He called the press the Pharisees today. And then there's this war with the Pope, this feud with the Pope. You're a Lutheran. You're not a Catholic. I'm a Catholic. Oh, you're Catholic. I thought you were a Lutheran. No, I converted. You converted from Lutheranism to Catholicism. Well, what do you make of all this?

51:05All right. One is that I think the Pope should focus on the Trinity and peace, and the President should focus on national security and policy. However, Matthew as a Christian and a Catholic, I think is one of the best chapters ever, because Matthew is about love and turning the cheek. So I think both His Holiness and the President should focus on Matthew. The President sometimes is Old Testament. He's on Ezekiel eye for an eye, but I'm hoping that they focus on Matthew and the message of forgiveness and peace. I think both sides simply should focus on peace and the road to peace, and I'm hopeful as a Catholic and a Christian that happens.

51:51Just with respect, I'm not a Catholic, but as long as I've been alive— You can be. As I'm aware. As long as I've been alive, I've been hearing popes talk about how much they hate war, whether it was the threat of nuclear war when I was a kid or any war. Truly, I guess I don't see the pope condemning war in vague terms as anything other than what his job is supposed to be, isn't it? I agree. I think, you know, I don't speak for the holiness, but, you know, obviously peace, non-war, humanity. Feeding the sick. And the trinity, absolutely. But on the other side with President Trump, you cannot have Iran with a nuclear weapon.

52:36That is a threat that is beyond the pale. And I do agree that, look, let's focus on the president. Let's focus on policy. Let's focus on being the president, his holiness. Focus on the Trinity. And hopefully they'll meet together with peace. Yes, blessed are the peacemakers. Absolutely. Congressman Zinke, always good to have you, sir. Thank you so much. And as always, thank you for your service. CNN's Erin Vernedge just sat down with the crew of Artemis II less than a week after they splashed down to earth. She's going to join us live to talk about what life has been like since they reunited with their families, what it was like to make history on the far side of the moon.

53:22Time for our out of this world lead. NASA is preparing for a new stage of its Artemis 3 mission. That's right. The next chapter of the United States quest to land humans back on the moon. But ahead of that event next week, we're getting an update from the astronauts of Artemis 2 after their first days back on Earth. It hasn't even been a week. CNN's Erin Burnett just spoke with the crew. Erin, I'm so jealous of the fact that you got to interview these people. I love them. How are they feeling six days after Splashdown? They are extraordinary. And their interactions with each other are extraordinary just to watch them.

53:56I mean, they're a team. They've got a language all their own. You know, it was just talking to them, Jake, one really interesting thing. Christina Koch, I asked her, you know, when you're sleeping now, you took all these amazing pictures, but what goes through your mind's eye of it? And she talked about looking back at Earth and how it was just, you know, in a sense, this blue dot, but just this this this blue circle hanging there amidst so much black and that it was a lifeboat and that they felt, you know, looking at Earth as this little lifeboat and that they were in this little tiny lifeboat, you know, that their ship was like Earth.

54:29Look, it's just profound. And they are so extraordinary in their ability to talk about the profound experiences that they had for us to all try to just understand a touch of it. Right, Jake? It was funny. Victor Glover talked about, you know, when they lost the communications and they went around the far side of the moon, you know, that they had these cookies, right? There was the mundane. And then he talked about the choice words that they used when they were having this experience that he described. he talked about actually the quantum physics of love, that there was this feeling of love and that they would believe that they believe that love does transcend that 200 ,000 miles plus, right?

55:07So just people who are so scientific, it was such engineering with such spirituality was incredible. And Reed Wiseman also talked about his wife in that moment, Jake, when they named the crater, Jeremy Hansen, the Canadian astronaut announced that they were going to name this crater after Reed Wiseman's wife, Carol, who had died of cancer in 2020. And Reed talked about that moment. And then I asked him, Jake, asked him what she would have thought if she knew he was doing this now, right? She died in 2020 before he had been formally selected for this mission, right? But they had put their life as a family towards that incredible goal and ambition.

55:45So I asked him what she would have thought and how he thinks about, you know, what she thinks now. Here's what he said. When she was starting to get, trying to get through this, when she was starting to get sick, I wanted to get her up to her family in Virginia. And that was the most important thing to me, to make sure she was comfortable and well cared for. And she just wasn't having it. I mean, she, that woman loved her children more than anything on planet Earth. And she wanted those two girls to stay here, to stay in their school system and their friends and where they were comfortable. And she also knew how much this meant to me.

56:18and at that point in time, this meant nothing to me. Like being an astronaut meant nothing to me. All I cared about was her and our two kids and keeping it as stable as humanly possible. But she did not want us to leave this area and she wanted me to continue down this path and to just see where this journey took. And I don't know if she felt like she was responsible and therefore she didn't want me to leave, but that was definitely her desire. And then her family really turned two and my family turned two and they kept me on this train. It took a lot of support because this is not where I expected to be at the end of 2020.

56:52I just wanted to run and hide, to be quite honest. But they all just kept me pointed in the right direction. And then to know that Ellie and Katie were in the back of mission control, and that was not planned. That was completely accidental that they were there that morning when Jeremy made that talk. And when he spelled out her name, C-A-R-R-O-L-L, I know that that was really something special for me. But to be quite honest, to speak for the crew, that that bonded us right there, right then in a very, very emotional and significant way. And we will never forget that. Jake, they are simply extraordinary.

57:25And just having being able to share a conversation here a little bit again of them just trying to give us a touch of what we all know we truly can't comprehend. But they want us to understand how truly special we all are to be here. So that is coming up at seven. They truly are the best of us. Erin Burnett, thank you so much for bringing that to us. Appreciate it. Don't miss Erin's full interview on her show, Erin Burnett Out Front, coming up right after the lead, 7 p.m. Eastern. You won't want to miss it. Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. is facing some tough questions today from both Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill.

57:59Here's some of those exchanges next.

58:09Health care is real. And if you can't answer basic questions, then maybe come prepared next time. In our health lead, heated hearings on Capitol Hill today for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Lawmakers grilled the HHS secretary on the administration's health agenda and RFK's credentials or lack thereof, as he leads the department responsible for protecting the health of every American, even though he has no medical degree or scientific background. Republican Congressman Blake Moore of Utah, the father of a son who's on the autism spectrum, delivered a rare Republican rebuke of RFK Jr. over how the administration has repeatedly, falsely linked autism to acetaminophen or Tylenol despite a complete lack of scientific or medical evidence.

58:57My 10-year-old Winnie is neurodivergent on the autism spectrum. He's the joy of my life. He's a but that's tenfold for my wife. I've always appreciated the administration's focus on this, though. But I was I was underwhelmed with what we ultimately put out. My wife was hurt and she felt for a split second that there was any way she was responsible. We don't even know if she took Tylenol during her pregnancy, but that that was a hurtful moment for her. It's just awful. CNN's Meg Terrell joins us now. And Meg, you've been following today's hearings closely. What were your biggest takeaways? Well, you know, this was supposed to be a budget hearing, so he was ostensibly there to talk about President Trump's$111 billion request for the HHS budget, which is a 12 percent decrease and includes a lot of cuts to scientific funding, which they tried to do last year also.

59:46And Congress didn't follow through with that. They want to continue to fund the NIH. And there were some conversations about that, but I think a lot of eyes were focused on would he stay on message on the more politically popular things like nutrition and drug pricing. And Democrats were doing their best to push him off that message and to really try to hammer him on things like vaccines and measles outbreaks. And there was one particularly contentious exchange, although you showed another one at the top there as well, with Representative Madeline Dean, who asked him about what he's been doing on vaccine policy as it relates to the measles outbreaks we've seen in Texas and other places.

1:00:20Take a listen to this. You fired all of them. Yeah. All of the vaccine board. The entire corrupt vaccine board. Okay, thanks. You've decided they were corrupt. And apparently what their practices were, what their recommendations were, were keeping us healthier, children healthier, children alive. You're not going to let me reply. You will not let me reply because you do not dare to talk to me about what you just talked about measles. You do not have the courage to allow me to reply. So we've been on the defense a lot about measles today. And in that instance, he was saying a lot of the kids who got measles were over the age of five.

1:00:59And so he was saying it's not since I've been HHS secretary that the measles vaccination rate has gone down, ignoring the fact that, of course, he worked with Children's Health Defense for years before that, which is an organization that has spread a lot of doubt about the safety of vaccines. Yeah, he's been an active anti-vaccine campaigner for more than 20 years, including writing an article in Rolling Stone that they had to retract. quickly the president just announced his new CDC director nominee. Yeah Dr. Erica Schwartz she was the deputy surgeon general in President Trump's first term and is really seen as a sort of more middle of the road choice when it comes to vaccine policy kind of continuing this political shift it seems like they're trying to make going into the midterms to seem less extreme when it comes to that issue she is seen as more of a public health sort of standard choice.

1:01:47All right Meg Terrell Thanks so much. Coming up, the man accused of throwing a Molotov cocktail at the home of Open AI CEO Sam Altman. He was allegedly carrying a manifesto when arrested. Those details next.

1:02:05In our Law and Justice League today, as the 20-year-old accused of trying to kill Open AI CEO Sam Altman remains in jail awaiting arraignment, we are learning new details about him. His name is Daniel Moreno-Gama. He's the man authorities say went to throw an incendiary device at Altman's home last Friday and then allegedly tried to break down the doors of the headquarters of his company, OpenAI. Police say Moreno-Gama had in his possession an anti-AI manifesto that he'd written that called for the killing of AI CEOs. Moreno-Gama's parents and his attorney say that he suffers from mental illness.

1:02:44He has not yet issued a plea The arraignment has been pushed to May 5th. And now we're learning Moreno Gama shared his concerns about AI as a threat to humanity in a podcast interview just a few months ago in January. Here now is Andy Mills. He's the editor-in-chief of Longview. He spoke to Daniel Moreno Gama on the podcast, The Last Invention. Andy, thanks for being here. So you and your colleagues spoke to him when he was 19 years old after coming across a post on a Discord server called Stop AI. Why did that post catch your eye? And why did he want to stop AI? Well, we've been doing this podcast series where we're trying to document the race to build AGI and the reaction from the public about AGI.

1:03:29And I don't know yet if AGI has become a household phrase. So it's probably worth go ahead and refreshing here. what the AI labs stated purpose is not to build AI products like these chatbots, which are cool, or Claude Code, which is really useful. All of the different frontier AI labs, they're trying to create something more like a digital super species. I mean, it sounds silly to say, but they think that if they can create a digital intelligence that is at the AGI level, That's artificial general intelligence that is as capable and as intelligent as a really intelligent person, that this will be a profound, amazing, like world changing event for humanity that will come up with new medicines.

1:04:19We'll maybe live to be two, three hundred years old. We'll travel the stars. But they also think that there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of danger that could come with creating that. And so we have been on our podcast trying to give voice to the different beliefs, the different sides and the debates about should we build this? Should we build it slowly? Would it be an amazing thing to make it? Are we essentially ushering in our own extinction? And one group of people that we wanted to hear from were the people who believe that the danger posed by AGI is so dire that we should use violence to stop these labs.

1:04:59And this is a view that you can find in different corners of the Internet. But you know how it is as a reporter. It's hard to know. People will say things on the Internet. Is that really what they believe? Are they just trying to get a rise out of people? Is this actually a substantial enough population that we should cover them? So we were in a Discord channel. We saw this guy was posting. He was asking questions about using violence to stop AGI. And when we reached out to him to ask if he would sit down for an interview, we were surprised that he said yes. Yeah. So in your interview, you pressed Moreno Gama about a post where he wrote he was interested in, quote, Luigi-ing some tech CEOs.

1:05:39Obviously, that's a reference to Luigi Mangione, who killed a UnitedHealthcare CEO. Now, he says he was just being provocative. And I don't think we need to say it, but just in case, obviously, neither you nor I are advocating any sort of violence in any way about this. but you pressed him on violence. Let's run just a little bit of that exchange. So you don't really think it would be wise for someone to, let's say, kill Sam Altman?

1:06:08No. I mean, I think these people, they have unlimited resources. One person is not really going to do that much of a dent. Now, he says a couple of times that he didn't think violence was the answer. obviously he changed his position, but how at that point was he calling for change? What's really interesting is that when I interviewed him, he clearly had been deep inside of the online discourse from the people who are often called AI doomers. They prefer to be called AI safetyists, but these are people like Eliezer Yudkowsky, Connor Leahy, Nate Soares, and he name dropped them in the interview, which I thought was interesting and said that he had basically been converted to their position after watching a ton of their YouTube videos and thinking that their arguments were better than the people who were saying that they were wrong.

1:07:07And when I was pressing him on, you know, online, you're also calling for violence. What do you think about violence now? He was uncomfortable. He at first said no comment. And then he started to say, well, we should exhaust every other means before we turn to violence. And so I did not expect that he was going to end that interview and go out and actually attack someone. In fact, when I saw on Saturday that the police had released his name, I turned to my colleagues and I said, oh shit, that's Dan. Like that's him. That's the guy we just interviewed. And I was really surprised. Andy Mills, fascinating stuff.

1:07:49Thank you so much. Really appreciate your time today. An apparent rift between two powerful New Yorkers, President Trump accusing Mayor Mamdani of destroying the Big Apple. So what happened to that once friendly relationship between the two gentlemen from Queens? That's next.

1:08:10Our politics lead now. The redistricting fight in the great Commonwealth of Virginia is ramping up as Democrats are trying to dilute Republican votes across the Commonwealth. If successful, the party will be poised to hold 10 of Virginia's 11 U.S. House seats this November. CNN's Jeff Zeleny explains how the outcome of this statewide fight could have national implications. Republicans are imploring Virginians to vote no. How are you them to say yes. Are you ready to stop the MAGA power grab? Virginia is the latest front in an unprecedented redistricting arms race. In a special election that ends Tuesday, voters are considering a Democratic plan to redraw district lines to help deliver the party four new seats in Congress, supercharging the delegation's power balance of six Democrats and five Republicans into a 10 to 1 advantage.

1:09:04It's one of the most aggressive responses yet in a year-long tit-for-tat that President Trump and Republicans began last year in Texas. We didn't start this fight, but I'm saying to Virginians, we need to finish it. What do you say to people who may say, you know, 10-1 may be sort of unfair. Virginia is a pretty split commonwealth, pretty split state. Not as unfair as an occupant of the White House who said, I need to find five more positions. I need to find five more members for coming. So that's the unfair. Dolores McQuinn said she will never forget Trump's words that sparked a gerrymandering war.

1:09:43I got the highest vote in the history of Texas, as you probably know, and we are entitled to five more seats. After Texas acted, Democrats in California followed suit, passing a referendum aimed at flipping five Republican-held seats. A redistricting battle has since played out in states across the country, with Florida still weighing whether to boost its Republican majority. We have one of the smallest margins in U.S. history. And that small margin is what makes House Speaker Mike Johnson and Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries so invested in the outcome here in Virginia. We're making clear we're not here to step back.

1:10:17We're here to fight back. Virginians have been bombarded with a massive advertising blitz. Virginia, we are counting on you. Republicans want to steal enough seats in Congress to rig the next election and wield unchecked power for two more years. With former President Barack Obama and other Democrats once opposed to gerrymandering, now saying it's the only way to keep pace with Republicans. I think the new map is absolutely horrible. Tara Bowman is among the furious Republicans who would lose their current congressman if her rural Virginia home was suddenly in the same district as the Washington, D.C.

1:10:51suburbs. We have lots of farming, small business, small farming, and I do not want my congressman to be from Fairfax. I mean, no, no, no, no. Another proposed congressional seat has been branded as the lobster claw for how it curves around a neighboring district dominated by college towns and stretches all the way to the Potomac River in northern Virginia. If you have to use animals to describe what a district looks like, maybe you've gerrymandered. The gerrymander is clear, but Democrats say it's justified score settling for what Trump started. I look at it as, is it fair in Texas what they're doing?

1:11:27If we as Democrats can even the playing field in another area, then I think it's OK. So more than one million people have already voted in this race through early voting over the last month or so. And Democrats are dramatically outspending Republicans, Jake. It really boils down to the argument of it being a Republican power grab or an overreach. But the question is, Democrats are not necessarily always for gerrymandering. But in this case, they say Trump started it, so Virginia will finish it. However, Florida also is the final state here in a couple weeks, could also decide to redraw their maps as well.

1:12:10Not exactly what we learned in our civics classes about once a decade, you draw a congressional map. And Florida is basically, Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong, and stay here. We're going to bring in Politico's Dasha Burns as well, the White House Bureau Chief. Florida is basically waiting to see, Dasha, what happens in Virginia. And if the Democrats win in Virginia, then Florida will fight that fire with fire. It's just like nonstop fire here. Yeah. And I mean, every person I talk to, whether they're a Democrat or Republican, can they tell me gerrymandering is horrible, it's bad for our democracy, but they're doing it.

1:12:40So we got to do it, too. Republicans have essentially given up the Virginia fight. They feel like Democrats are poised to win this one and they have a whole lot of other problems that they need to tackle. And so they're kind of throwing their hands up on this one. And Jeff, Democrats have outspent Republicans by more than$30 million on this, as you point out. Why such a disparity? Well, look, Democrats are very eager for these four seats in Virginia. And they believe that it's a very winnable thing. I mean, we're just a few months after a dramatic Democratic victory last fall when Abigail Spanberger won.

1:13:16She is the Democratic governor who campaigned as more of a moderate. She's been fairly muted in this. She will be campaigning this weekend. She's holding a virtual rally this evening. But Democrats believe that this is effectively the way to make it all a wash. Texas got five extra seats. California got five seats. A few others along the way. But if Florida adds more, this is a Democratic insurance policy, basically. But a lot of it is dark money. A lot of it is undisclosed donors. So, again, not exactly a lot of a high-minded, good civics going on there. But, again, Democrats argue you have to fight fire with fire, and Trump started it because he was worried about the outcome of the midterm elections.

1:13:56That's what we're talking about. By the way, the Texas redistricting may not actually work out the way that Republicans have been hoping for. There's a lot of concern now that the way Texas has been withdrawn might end up benefiting. Well, and that's because they were excited about how well Trump did with Hispanics in 2024, and now a lot of those Hispanics... That is not guaranteed beyond Trump at all. It's crazy stuff. And I have to say, as somebody who spends a lot of time in Virginia, that is not a 10 to 1 Democrat to Republican Commonwealth. That is, it's purple, bluish. But right now it's 5 to 6.

1:14:27Yeah. And those maps are drawn in a pretty fair way. It got an A-plus rating by the gerrymandering groups, the anti-gerrymandering groups. But the 10 to 1, the question of is it overreach or not, we'll find out on Tuesday. So another thing that's catching our eyes today is that President Trump just went after New York Mayor Mamdani on Truth Social. He wrote in part, quote, sadly, Mayor Mamdani is destroying New York. It has no chance. What's he talking about? Tax policies? I mean, look, I this is kind of the if you are a Friends fan, like the Ross and Rachel on again, off again. Is it a bromance?

1:15:02Are they in breakup mode? It's not surprising that those two would be clashing. It was much more surprising when they were super buddy-buddy in the Oval Office. I mean, Mamdani's policies are very far from the president's own. They're very similar in sort of charisma and the ability to galvanize people that might not otherwise be interested in politics. Their tactics with voters are kind of similar. But in terms of how they would actually run a city like New York, which, of course, the president has a huge affinity for, they're pretty far apart on that. Trump would be Ross, is what you're saying.

1:15:36I think Trump would be lost. And Mondati would be Rachel. Yeah, he doesn't quite have the same haircut, but. Not yet. President Trump just landed in Nevada, or he was expected to land in Nevada, stomping for his party ahead of the midterms. That's obviously a big battleground state. The White House would very much like to reset the conversation to talk about tax cuts that are coming, no tax on tips, et cetera, et cetera. It's a war. It's a political time that's instead been dominated by war and high prices and economic gloom and President Trump fighting with the Pope. Here's President Trump earlier today asked about high gas prices.

1:16:11Well, they're not very high if you look at what they were supposed to be in order to get rid of a nuclear weapon with the danger that entails. So the gas prices have come down very much over the last three, four days. I mean, first of all, this new metric of they're not very high if you look at what they were supposed to be in order to get rid of a nuclear weapon. There was not a nuclear weapon, but even so, like that's not how people think about high prices. is he capable of staying on message in any way? I mean, they put him out on the campaign trail for the midterms. No. No, he's not. And that's not just my assessment.

1:16:45This is what I'm hearing from Republican operatives and allies of the president all across the spectrum. There was Brian Lanza, who was a senior advisor to the president. We have him on all the time. Yeah, yeah. He said, look, the roadmap to a victory in the midterms is the economic message, and the president is not capable of staying on that roadmap. And even when he does talk about economics, he says they're not that high. I remember back to last year when he was talking about how kids don't need that many pencils or that many dolls. Like even when they have him talking about the economy. You don't need 11 dolls.

1:17:15You need two. Exactly. So you just can't control that. And now you have Iran. You have the fight with the Pope. You have actual distractions, let alone trying to get him to say the right things. I suspect we hear that quote. They're not that high again in Democratic ads. particularly if gas prices don't go down because the reality is we hear that all the time they are high not just for people driving for the the price of diesel for a truckers lifting up the price of goods and things so that sounded a little bit out of touch there i mean ironically they they had the whole door dash stunt it is door dash drivers that are having a hard time filling up their gas tanks even if they're getting those tax oh yeah the high gas prices hit working people the worst they're the ones that have to travel the farthest then of course then there's diesel costs for people who transport things.

1:18:02Anyway, Jeff, Tasha, good to see both of you. Thanks so much for being here. Our new movie about the king of pop, Michael Jackson, is about to hit theaters. But there will be a huge and controversial part of his life that might be missing from the film. That's next.

1:18:20Our pop culture lead now, the biopic of one of the biggest stars to ever walk the planet, or moonwalk the planet, is about to hit theaters. But as CNN's Stephanie Elam explains, the controversy that followed Michael Jackson for decades cost the production company behind the film millions of dollars in the end. I'm just getting started. When Michael hits the big screen, the king of pop will moonwalk, thrill, and don that iconic love. But don't expect this. I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth. Anything related to the child molestation accusations that followed Jackson for decades. Initially, the film was supposed to actually start in 1993 as police cars were showing up to Neverland Ranch and Michael Jackson's house was going to be searched for evidence.

1:19:09Variety reports the filmmakers were stunned when Jackson's estate found a clause in the 1994 settlement with accuser Jordan Chandler that derailed the nearly finished film. And there was a clause in that agreement that prevented anybody from making a film that involved Chandler as a character or that depicted a Chandler-like character in that film. Our sources are saying that the reshoots cost at least$10 to$15 million. Last things that we see are the bad tour. CNN producer David Daniels saw the final version. It is not a look how wonderful everything was, no blemishes, no problems. It is legendary that Joe Jackson ran the family with an iron hand.

1:19:55There is a very famous incident that injured Michael while he was filming a soda pop commercial. But that may not be enough for some critics, especially since a 2019 documentary renewed attention to child sex abuse allegations against Jackson. He told me if they ever found out what we were doing, he and I would go to jail. The Jackson family denied abuse allegations made by Wade Robson and James Safechuck in the documentary. Their attorney did not respond to CNN's questions about the upcoming film. Jackson was acquitted in an unrelated child molestation trial in 2005. I am hoping that this film will showcase the beautiful, brilliant life and love of Michael.

1:20:41L. Londell McMillan is a former Jackson advisor and reps the Prince Estate. He says an estate's first priority is to protect its own legacy. While it may make some people scream and yell, you'll see millions of others on the other spectrum stating, why would you let that in if the facts have not been proven? Michael is already tracking to be a box office smash, as was the recent Broadway play, MJ the Musical, made by a different team. They still think of him as this incredibly talented child. Some music experts say Jackson's link to generations of childhood memories allows many fans to separate the flawed man from the artistic icon.

1:21:23He gets bracketed with some of the things I think you really love, like Disney movies and other kind of childhood. Peter Pan as kind of that halo of childhood. And everybody was a kid once. Now, it should be noted, Jake, that the Jackson estate initially approved the inclusion of those darker allegations. Now, after admitting its oversight, Variety reports the estate paid for the reshoots, not the studio. Meantime, the two accusers in that documentary by HBO, which is a a sister company to CNN, have sued companies tied to Jackson, arguing they didn't do enough to protect the plaintiffs. Those companies deny the claim.

1:22:00That case is expected to go to trial next year, Jake. A fascinating story and just the latest and sadly the last piece of journalism you're doing for the lead, because, Stephanie, I'm told this is your last day, and I just have to say I first met you covering the tornadoes in Oklahoma in, I think, 2013, 2014. 13, 14, yeah. And I saw you in Ferguson. You and Seidner were just like two of the gutsiest reporters I'd ever seen during all that craziness. We're really going to miss you. I do not know what's going on, but when I take over the company, I will bring you back. Thank you, Jake. I appreciate all of you at the lead.

1:22:39We really are going to miss you. Best of luck and stay in touch. Erin Burnett Out Front starts now.

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1:23:26There's so much bad information that the really good information gets drowned. The new CNN original series, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever. Now streaming on the CNN app.