Prosecutor: Suspect’s Mom Says He Became More Left-Leaning

28:20And so the families of those hostages, 20 of whom are still believed to be alive in Gaza, fearful that this ground offensive in Gaza City could endanger their loved ones lives as well. All right, Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, Israel for us. Thanks so much. President Trump has just arrived in London and might be a bit knackered or tired, as we say. What is on Trump's agenda and what topic is probably not going to be his cup of tea. Plus, Attorney General Pam Bondi trying to clean up her comments on prosecuting hate speech, comments that have Democrats and Republicans in something of an uproar. Stay with us.

28:58Our worldly now President Trump arrived in London this afternoon for his second state visit to the United Kingdom, the other during his first term. Tomorrow, he will be welcomed by King Charles at Windsor Castle, home to British monarchs for, I don't know, just about the last 900 years or so. President Ronald Reagan stayed there during his state visit in 1982. Reagan, of course, had a much different attitude toward the Soviet Union and its leaders than President Trump has toward Russia and Vladimir Putin, which will no doubt be a topic of discussion. CNN political analyst and New York Times White House correspondent Maggie Haberman joins us now from London.

29:28Maggie, what should our viewers be on the lookout for over the next few days while Trump's in England? Jake, I think the biggest question is what happens at this joint press conference that Keir Starmer and President Trump are supposed to hold on Thursday. We don't really know. We don't know how long it will be. We don't know how limited the topics might be. I think that President Trump is going to want to focus as much as he can on the pomp and pageantry around this dinner. He's been talking about it for several days, about the fact that it's highly unusual to have Windsor open for a president.

29:59And we know what a royal watcher he is. He often has talked about how his mother was a royal watcher. So I think that is where he would like his focus to be. But as you say, there are other issues going on in the world, including the fact that the British and other European leaders are trying to shore up Ukraine's military defenses, a subject that is likely to come up during the visit before he left the White House. Today, the president was asked if he thought his summit with Putin, which was a month ago yesterday, accomplished anything. Take a listen. Yeah, accomplished a lot, but it takes two to tango also.

30:30You know, those are two people, Zelensky and Putin, that hate each other. And it looks like I have to sit in the room with them because they can't sit in a room together. There's great hatred there. But no, that meeting accomplished a lot. So the president says that Putin meeting accomplished a lot. What are you hearing from your sources about U.S. efforts to stop this war, Putin's war on Ukraine? Look, President Trump is still hoping that there can be some kind of a breakthrough where there There would be a bilateral meeting between Zelensky and Putin and then a trilateral meeting where he would be present.

31:02But as you know correctly, that was a month ago plus now that that Alaska summit took place. And there has been no movement since. And President Trump has kicked it over to NATO as their response. They have to go first, essentially, those nations on sanctions and on tariffs if he's going to enjoin the U.S. there as well. So the answer is I think the president continues to buy time for not punishing Russia. You know, there's been lots of, obviously, speculation about his dealings with Putin in terms of just leader to leader and the fact that he clearly has more admiration for what he would call the strong ones in terms of world's authoritarians than he does some U.S.

31:42presidents or ally leaders. But I also think there is a part of him that realizes he has not been able to get this done. And so to put sanctions on and still not be able to get it done, I think he's not sure that that accomplishes much. Other people would disagree with him, but I think that that's his perspective. Yeah. One thing, one topic the president cannot escape in London are questions about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, given the involvement not only of Britain's Prince Andrew, but also last week's firing of the British ambassador to the U.S., Peter Mandelson, over revelations of his close relationship to Epstein, which came out by Bloomberg and also that birthday book.

32:16What are you hearing about the White House strategy when it comes to any Epstein questions that might come from our friends from Fleet Street? Well, look, I think this gets back to the question that I said earlier about what exactly this press conference looks like. I think this is a question that not only President Trump doesn't want to continue dealing with, but I think it's also not a question that Keir Starmer wants to deal with. This is part of why Mandelson was fired, although certainly not the only reason. Prince Andrew, who was an associate of Jeffrey Epstein's, is not expected to be at this dinner.

32:47And so I think that everybody involved here has some interest in trying to minimize attention into this. We will see if that's possible over here. Everybody involved except for the journalists, of course. Maggie Haberman, thanks so much. Always good to see you. Thanks, Jake. The cover-up had little to do with the break-in. It was to protect covert operations and the covert activities involving the entire U.S. intelligence community. Did Deepthroat say that people's lives are in danger? Yes. What else did he say? He said everyone is involved. An iconic scene from All the President's Men is the world remembers actor and director Robert Redford, who died today at the age of 89.

33:27In All the President's Men, Redford played Washington Post journalist Bob Woodward, who, along with Carl Bernstein, broke the Watergate scandal story, which toppled Richard Nixon's presidency. In that same scene from the movie, Ben Bradley, the editor of The Washington Post, played by Jason Robards in the film, says, quote, Nothing is riding on this except the First Amendment of the Constitution, freedom of the present, quite possibly the future of the country. A fitting quote, as we note that the current president today is being accused of yet again waging a war on the free press through his words and actions.

33:55Let's discuss with our panel. It starts. Well, it starts in 2015. But but most recently, Attorney General Pam Bondi drawing criticism from both Democrats and Republicans for comments she made on Katie Miller's podcast yesterday talking about Charlie Kirk. There's free speech and then there's hate speech. And there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie in our society. We will absolutely target you, go after you if you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything. And that's across the aisle. The attorney general later forced to clarify those remarks posted on Twitter, quote, hate speech that crosses the line into threats of violence is not protected by the First Amendment.

34:40It's a crime. Free speech protects ideas, debate, even dissent, but it does not and will never protect violence. It is clear this violent rhetoric is designed to silence others from voicing conservative ideals. Of course, when people talk about hate speech, they're not necessarily talking about incitement to violence, which is a whole other category. Right. I mean, there's hate speech around, as we know, hate crimes, right, which can lead to violence. Obviously, hate speech that can lead to violence. But what about, I don't know, hate speech around hanging the former vice president of the United States?

35:10How about hate speech or inciting violence that leads to a violent mob attacking the United States Capitol on January 6th and a police officer being killed? I mean, the hypocrisy around this is just astonishing, given that what we seem to hear from President Trump is hate speech or mean speech or negative. Anything he just doesn't like, anyone who doesn't ask him a question that he deems inappropriate, seems to be hateful. We've seen him berate many of our CNN colleagues and others for any question he just deems is out of bounds. So what's concerning here is, you know, the U.S. Constitution is supposed to help us guide around what's hate speech in terms of any audience that we might be speaking to, not just people we don't like.

35:58I saw a lot of conservatives on social media taking real issue with what Attorney General Bondi had to say. Yeah, I think that's why she had very worthwhile clarifications. Look, you can't yell fire in a movie theater. You can't yell bomb at an airport. There are consequences to those actions when they turn violent. We know this killer was on discord and all the chans talking to people, wanting violence against Charlie Kirk. If this was aimed at another group besides conservatives, I think our tone would be a bit different. Look, I agree that there is a difference between hate speech and speech that's asking for violence or inciting people toward violence.

36:35But I think we're right now very close to that cusp and a lot of left wing chatter. And it needs to be looked at. And by the way, the administration says they have evidence that groups are funding a lot of that. That should be looked into. So, Terry, our former colleague, ABC's Jonathan Karl, tried to ask President Trump about this earlier today. Take a listen. A lot of your allies say hate speech is free speech. You should probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly. It's hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe they'll come after ABC. Well, ABC paid me$16 million recently for a form of hate speech, right?

37:11Your company paid me$16 million for a form of hate speech. So maybe they'll have to go after you. First of all, the notion that Jonathan Karl has a lot of hate in his heart. He's one of the fairest and most decent people. I don't think he has any hate in his heart. But what was your reaction when you heard that? Well, first, as to Trump, look, this is basically what every pediatocrat wants. Make your whims the law. Okay, a little clarity. There's no such thing as hate speech in American federal law. The words never appear in the U.S. code. And the Supreme Court, for decades, Republicans and conservatives alike have again and again and again said when the government wants to punish speech, they have to meet an incredibly high burden.

37:48That came in a case where somebody threatened to shoot Lyndon Johnson, in a case where somebody burned a cross on a lawn, in a case of stalking a singer-songwriter, and in the case of the Westboro Baptist Church, which staged these despicable demonstrations outside the funerals of fallen soldiers. Each time, the Supreme Court overturned a conviction won by the government. It is almost impossible to win. But his comments there come the same day that President Trump posted on Truth Social, quote, today I have the great honor of bringing a$15 billion defamation and libel lawsuit against the New York Times, one of the worst and most degenerate newspapers in the history of our country, becoming a virtual mouthpiece for the radical left Democrat Party.

38:26The New York Times has been allowed to freely life smear and defame me for too long. That stops now. In a note to staff, the New York Times publisher said, quote, Everyone, regardless of their politics, should be troubled by the growing anti-press campaign led by President Trump and his administration. TW, any issues with that? What do you think of him suing the New York Times for articles that he felt portrayed him negatively? Well, he has the right as an American to bring lawsuits against those who he thinks defame him. He obviously won the lawsuit against ABC for defamation when he was called...

38:56Well, he didn't win it. They settled. Well, they settled, but what was the core of it? It was defamation being called a rapist. The core of it was the business interests of Disney. Well, perhaps, but why the case, hold on a second, why the case, well, bear with me. No, no. Why the case was brought was for that reason. He has the right to do it, okay? There is, I saw one poll in YouGov saying 67 % of the American people do not believe that Donald Trump gets a fair shake. He often says that I could cure cancer and everyone would hate it. the fact of the matter is Donald Trump feels that he is uniquely picked on by the press.

39:34He is constantly challenging them and I think he was trolling Jonathan Karl there. But I think this is his remedy to try to get at what is the core reason for why the media will never give Trump and his supporters a fair shake. Will it work? We will see. But he has the right to do it. Well, I think that Jonathan Karl once again is not a hater in any way, shape, form or fashion. But as far as the president bringing a libel suit, there is leadership interest there involved in there. I will say this. This whole discussion is are the chickens come home to roost of the illiberal left project begun 30 years ago to make speech violence, right, to make hate a crime.

40:15And it was always they were always warned by libertarians. At some point, a government you don't like will use this against you. And that's what's happening now. I think the other problem that I have with some of these lawsuits is it's not just that he's bringing the lawsuit against these networks. It's then saying, and we're going to mess with your business. I'm going to use the levers of government to mess with your business interests. That is not appropriate. It's one thing to say I'm going to sue you around speech that I think is inappropriate or because I have my First Amendment rights. But when you are using those levers to then create other problems for a business entity, that's where it becomes problematic.

40:49And unfortunately, we're seeing that happen over and over again. Thanks, one and all. Appreciate it. coming up next, the kissing disease, but it might not be what you think it is. This one spreads by bug bites on your face. We're paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta for this one next.

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42:13We're paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta to help us understand this new health threat. Sanjay, what exactly is this kissing disease? How widespread is it? Yeah, calling it a kissing disease makes it sound not that bad, right? What we're actually talking about is something known as Chagas, C-H-A-G-A-S disease. A lot of people may not have heard of this, no surprise, because it's mostly, Jake, been relegated to the tropics for a long time. But as the weather has gotten warmer, it's moved from rural Mexico and Central America and South America into the United States. So take a look at this map here. There's eight states where they're now saying that this is endemic.

42:52And that means basically people, those are the states that are the darkest there on that map. These are places where, you know, people got the disease not because they traveled somewhere and brought it back, but because they became infected there. So sort of a constant presence there. and that's why they're calling this endemic. There's about 280 ,000 people, they estimate, in the United States that have chagas, but only about 1 % of people actually know it, and that's another reason they're trying to bring some awareness to it. Jake, it's called the kissing disease because these bugs, which are about a half inch to an inch long, typically bite people on the face, and then they leave a parasite in that area, and then that itches, so people scratch and they sort of embed that parasite into their skin and that causes the infection.

43:40You can develop what's called the chagoma. You can develop something in the eyelid. So these are sort of noticeable, identifiable problems, but that's basically what the disease is. How do you know if you have it?

43:54It can be hard initially because it may just appear like another bite. and for a lot of people, they may not have significant symptoms. If they develop symptoms, it may be a fever, a rash, headache, and eyelid swelling, like I mentioned. About 20 % of people, Jake, this persists to be a problem for them. They may develop cardiac issues down the line or GI issues. Incidentally, that image you're looking at, that is sort of what happens when you get the eyelid swelling that's associated with chaga. It's very characteristic. That's the sort of thing you notice. Most people aren't going to develop that, but these are some of the ways that you can notice it.

44:32Does it only bite you in the face? And how can we protect ourselves? Yeah, it typically tends to be the face. I mean, it can bite you elsewhere, but I think part of the reason it bites people in the face primarily is because it's nocturnal. So typically when people are sleeping, they may be covered on the rest of their body, but their face is exposed. That's part of the reason. It tends to come from outside to inside in the after dark. So making sure doors are closed after dark, making sure seals or cracks are sealed rather so the bugs can't get in. That seems to help. Insecticides in areas that are particularly hard hit, that seems to help as well.

45:12Texas right now, Jake, is the state that has the most of these cases. Are there any other diseases that we need to protect ourselves from specifically this time of year? Yeah, you know, I mean, you know, we still think about mosquito-borne illnesses and West Nile, for example. So West Nile is caused by a virus that's transmitted by mosquitoes. Chagas is caused by a parasite that is transmitted by these kissing bugs and bacteria from Lyme disease as well. Jake, I'll tell you, you know, West Nile wasn't a thing in this country before 1999. Then there was that big outbreak in New York, and now it's just about everywhere in the United States.

45:51So we're seeing more of these endemic sort of pathogens, you know, take hold in this country. All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Sanjay's taking your questions on this. Scan the QR code on your screen right now to submit a question, and Sanjay will be back Thursday to answer some of those questions. Internationally, American farmers are pleading for help from the government to offset the effects of low prices, high costs, and tariffs. CNN's Diane Gallagher takes us to Marvel, Arkansas, where farmers say they're reaching a breaking point.

46:25This is Arkansas grown. P.J. Haney is a fifth generation farmer. He works nearly 5 ,000 acres in the region. His primary crops are soybeans and rice. We produce more acres of rice in Arkansas than any other state in the United States.

46:43This is one of my unplanted fields right here. I'm not able to sell anything off this field. This field should be lush, full of soybeans right now. But it's not. It's bare dirt. For farmers in many parts of the American South, it's a dire situation. This year has been the perfect storm. Low commodity prices, a wet spring, delayed acres from getting planted. Last year, we made the best crop we've ever made. We lost money. And this is a national concern. This was a sentiment at the National Cotton Council meeting in rural Arkansas, where future Future farm funding, in President Donald Trump's so-called Big Beautiful Bill, was the hot topic.

47:18I don't see anything that's beautiful about the whole bill. This is not your ordinary farm crisis. We call it farmageddon, and it really is tough times. Joe Jennings founded a company that helps farmers with financial and risk management. He drove three hours from Memphis, Tennessee to attend the meeting, feeling a farm crisis could have a catastrophic domino effect. Whenever there's a farm crisis, there's a banking crisis. The complexities of the program make it much more important that the farmers take some time to put pencils to paper. Earlier this month, hundreds of farmers left their fields during their busy harvests to voice their fears and beg congressional aides to come up with emergency assistance.

48:00That sickle cuts it off at the bottom, and then that reel feeds it into the machine. Arkansas farmers need an injection of cash right now to keep them on the farm. Due to a variety of factors, including unpredictable weather, new tariffs and rising costs for everything from feed to fertilizer, farmers say they're at a breaking point. The 2018 farm bill has had two extensions. It's due to expire September 30th, meaning farmers won't see any federal dollars until the big, beautiful bill kicks in late 2026. Our bill collectors want money now. The chemicals, the seed companies, the fertilizer companies, they need it now.

48:43They don't want to hear, well, I'm waiting on a farm bill payment that's going to come two years from now. They don't want to hear that. Unless money comes now, it's projected up to one-third of Arkansas farmers could face bankruptcy or be forced to shutter their operations. When I first started driving a combine, no cow. That's how they end up, open air and dust. You know, it's hard times. Ernest Cox has been farming for more than 65 years. And now at 81, still behind the wheel of a combine, he fears this could be his last. And if they don't do something, there's going to be some farmers that ain't going to be around next year.

49:18Haney hopes if the right person hears his message, it'll spark a positive outcome before it's too late. 77 percent of farmers voted for President Trump. And all we're asking for President Trump and this administration to do is take care of the farmers that feed the world. Food security is national security. Please, Mr. President, put a moratorium on our farm and food and agribusiness processes immediately. Diane Gallagher, CNN, Marvel, Arkansas. And our thanks to Diane Gallagher for that report. CNN is going all in, airing this year's Farm Aid Benefit Concert live. CNN's John Berman and Laura Coates are going to get to host those Lucky Ducks.

50:02That's Saturday night at 7 Eastern, only here on CNN. This is CNN Breaking News. And we're starting off this hour of the lead with the breaking news. A short time ago, the suspect accused of assassinating conservative activist Charlie Kirk made his first court appearance. 22-year-old Tyler Robinson now charged with aggravated murder, felony discharge of a firearm, two counts of obstruction of justice, two counts of witness tampering, and commission of a violent offense in the presence of a child. That child, sadly, Charlie Kirk's kids. Utah officials are also seeking the death penalty in this case, most revealing today, perhaps, alleged text messages between the suspect and his roommate, his roommate with whom prosecutors say he was in a romantic relationship.

50:48Prosecutors read some of those messages aloud.

51:19out. be negotiated out. We also heard a recorded conversation between the suspect and his parents after his mother identified the shooter in photos released by law enforcement. As they discussed the situation, Robinson implied that he was the shooter and stated that he couldn't go to jail and just wanted to end it. When asked why he did it, Robinson explained there is too much evil and the guy referring to Charlie Kirk spreads too much hate. We also learned that the suspect's mother told investigators that her son had become more political and left-leaning over the past year, quote, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights oriented.

52:03Prosecutors also confirmed that the alleged shooter's roommate with whom he was allegedly having a romantic relationship is in the midst of transitioning from male to female. Here to talk about these charges is the Utah Department of Public Safety Commissioner Bo Mason. Commissioner Mason, thanks for joining us. So prosecutors say that those detailed messages were sent in the hours after the assassination and two days before the suspect was arrested. Did you support the decision to publicly reveal these messages before the trial was set? You know, that's a that's a decision the county attorney makes based on the charging document is a public document.

52:40And so the things that are put in there to show the elements of the crime and some of that pertinent information is a decision they make. And so they're the experts in how that case is going to go and ensure a fair and just trial. And so we trust them in their decision making with that. Obviously, one of your tasks right now is to make sure that this trial proceeds peacefully with no further violence. Officials say that the roommate has been cooperative with investigators. Do you fear for the roommate's safety or the parent's safety or anyone else's, given how horrific this assassination was and how politically charged did all this?

53:24Yeah, we absolutely do. We have seen threats increase. In the hours immediately following the shooting, we took one individual into custody and detained them as a person of interest. and then quickly ascertained they were not involved and released them. That individual was threatened and harassed just because they were questioned. And so there's no doubt in my mind that the family is feeling that pressure. The roommate is feeling that pressure. We have no evidence to prove that any of them corroborated in the killing of Charlie Kirk. But they were persons involved with Mr. Robinson and therefore receiving some hatred and some judgment.

54:05And yeah, we definitely fear for their safety and take measures to hopefully protect them. Is there any indication that anyone else may have been involved in this assassination, in this horrific act of violence, and anyone else might face charges? So right now, our investigation continues. The arrest has been made, but that does not stop the investigation. We're looking into online profiles. We're looking at people that Tyler Robinson may have interacted with in transit when he's traveling to the university and in the hours following. And so we haven't ruled that out. We absolutely are doing a very thorough investigation.

54:46At this time, I can tell you very confidently that the evidence points to him acting alone as the shooter on the Utah Valley University campus. That doesn't mean we're going to stop and not look for any other connections. And we continue to do that. During a hearing at the Senate earlier today, the U.S. Senate, FBI Director Kash Patel said the FBI is looking to question more than 20 people who were in that online group chat on Discord where the suspect allegedly confessed to killing Charlie Kirk. Do you anticipate anyone in that group chat might be associated with the crime in any way, that they might be charged with anything?

55:25Again, I can say we're looking at anyone that had involvement with Charlie Kirk. Some of this information I can't release. You know, as the state lead investigating agency, we have, you know, different things that we can release. We're working very closely with the county attorney's office. As that lead investigative agency that is charged with moving the case information over, we can't speak to evidence that we're currently working on or interviews that we're currently conducting. You said you were looking to anybody that was involved with Charlie Kirk. I think you meant to say anybody involved with the suspect, Mr.

56:00Robinson. Yeah, I apologize. Mr. Robinson leading up to the shooting of the time around. Anyone that had interactions with that and anyone that had interactions online anywhere. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify. I knew what you meant. Utah Department of Public Safety Commissioner Bo Mason, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time today, sir. earlier today senate democrats criticized fbi director cash patel over his handling of the kirk assassination investigation especially over his premature social media post about a suspect having been in custody uh that suspect was released uh and was not actually involved in the shooting joining us now is republican congressman brian fitzpatrick of pennsylvania and congressman one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you is because obviously you you has served you have served as both an fbi special agent and a federal prosecutor what are your thoughts on how FBI Director Patel has handled the investigation so far?

56:54Well, they captured the killer, so that's good. There were some missteps along the way. I think everybody would acknowledge that. But, you know, to turn that case around in the quick manner that they did, I think, is commendable. And it was a true team task force effort between the federal, the state, and the local. And it looks like they have solid evidence against him. So the outcome is good. Certainly things could have been done differently. I think they would all acknowledge that. Isn't the outcome because the family cooperated ultimately and turned in their son? I mean, isn't that really why he was caught?

57:28I don't want to take anything away from the hardworking men and women of the FBI, but wasn't that the lucky break? Well, that was one piece of evidence, a very, very important piece, but also the video surveillance that identified him, that captured him, that allowed his family to, in fact, identify him. So there were a lot of pieces of evidence that corroborated it. The seizing of the weapon, the DNA collected off the weapon. There's a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Building these cases is very complicated. Some pieces of evidence are more important than others, but they all collectively paint the mosaic that the prosecution is going to need.

58:01Yeah, good point. The mom did see the image of her son, which inspired her action. Also brought up in today's hearing is the rise in political violence, which is pretty horrific and has been for years. This is what Republican Senator Eric Schmidt of Missouri had to say. We've heard years, years of the left, their loudest voices calling anyone on the right extremists, extremist MAGA Republicans, fascists, Nazis, an existential threat to democracy. Check yourself. And don't give me this both sides bullshit. What are your thoughts on this, sir? I think the rhetoric needs to come down across the board.

58:44Nobody should be shouting in a committee hearing. Nobody should be casting aspersions. This is a time, especially now, when we can draw a direct causal link between this incident and the rise of hate speech across America, that leaders need to be the calm, cool, collected ones to lower the volume and temperature of the discourse and bridge the gap between differences. I think that's incumbent upon all of us in Congress, in the media, and in the public as well. When you say hate speech, what do you mean? because Attorney General Bondi is facing criticism, even from many on the conservative side of the aisle, over her comments about the Justice Department going after what she says as hate speech.

59:23And after her comments, Brit Hume with Fox posted on social media, someone needs to explain to Ms. Bondi that so-called hate speech, repulsive though it may be, is protected by the First Amendment. She should know this. So what do you mean by hate speech? And what do you think of what Brit Hume had to say about Pam Bondi? Well, I think it's anything that's inflammatory, Jake. We can, based on the words we use and the tone we take in our communications with others, we're either fanning the flames of division or we're trying to lower the volume and temperature of the discourse. We all know that.

59:52We know from our personal relationships that you have to see the world through the other person's eyes and try to see the humanity in the other person. And I think that's really what's lacking right now with so many, as we're seeing so many of these crimes unfold. We're seeing a lack of humanity. We're not seeing the humanity in other people. You should never hate anybody. You especially should never hate someone that you've never met, that you've never spoken to. And I just think it's incumbent upon every leader in this country, no matter what you're leading, to be a responsible adult and understand the weight of your words.

1:00:25All right. I agree. Republican Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania right outside Philly. Thank you. Appreciate your being here as always. Also at the Senate hearing today, the FBI Director, Cash McHale, addressed the firing of three FBI agents. The attorney for those fired agents will join me next. with this response to what Patel said. And this just in, a new lawsuit from several families against the developer of Character AI, alleging that the company's chatbots contributed to the suicides of their children and attempted suicides. One mother dealing with the aftermath is gonna join us ahead.

1:01:01In our Law and Justice lead today, FBI Director Patel pushed back against claims over whether the White House directed him to fire FBI employees who have been involved in any investigation in any way against President Trump.

1:01:16Any termination at the FBI was a decision that I made based on the evidence that I have as a director of the FBI, and it's my job, and I'm not going to shy away from it. And as you stated, those were allegations, and that is an ongoing litigation. So they'll have their day in court, so will we. He's referring to the three fired FBI agents currently suing Cash Patel on the Trump administration over their terminations. And their attorney, Chris Maddy, joins me now. Chris, so Patel is denying that the White House instructed him to fire FBI officials, to fire your clients. So what are your clients alleging?

1:01:50Well, that's certainly very different than what he said when he had a direct conversation with Brian Driscoll, where he told Brian Driscoll that his superiors, including the White House, had directed him to fire people who had been involved in investigations of President Trump, that it wasn't his decision and that he would be fired if he didn't carry out the White House's wishes. So that's something that we expect to prove at trial. It's very different than what he said today. But at some point, as Director Patel said, we'll have an opportunity to sit across the deposition table with him, sit across the courtroom from him, and he'll have to answer for his actions.

1:02:23How can you prove that in court? Well, we're very comfortable that somebody like Brian Driscoll, who's had a 20 year career at the FBI, who's led some of the most sensitive missions during the course of his career at the FBI, led hostage rescue teams, led critical incident response teams, has been awarded the Medal of Valor and the Shield of Bravery, and spent his career investigating and proving that people had engaged in unlawful behavior. We won't have any problem proving that Director Patel did exactly that. Patel also said during a Senate hearing today that the White House contacts agencies on budgeting processes, but not individual personnel decisions.

1:03:04Is that true? not according to director patel when he had conversations uh with mr driscoll uh including conversations in the presence of others i mean it's quite clear uh that mr patel had been tasked with purging the fbi of agents and supervisors who had not demonstrated sufficient personal loyalty to the president um so i'm sure that there are budgetary conversations with the white house That's not what this litigation is about. This litigation is about Emil Bove, Director Battelle, Pam Bondi, Stephen Miller and the White House executing a purge of the FBI because agents and supervisors had done their jobs in investigations involving President Trump and that they stood up for the FBI workforce when the FBI workforce was under attack for political reasons.

1:03:56Do you think that these firings, not just of your three clients, but other dozens of FBI agents who, you know, did what they did as they were told during previous administrations, has affected the FBI's ability to protect the American people? there's not a doubt in my mind when you get rid of people like brian driscoll steve jensen spencer evans and many many others who for years had provided non-partisan expert service to the american people as leaders within the fbi and really stood as examples to the rest of the fbi workforce, you absolutely handicap our ability to prevent and respond to crises and threats.

1:04:41There's a reason that Brian Driscoll and Steve Jensen and Spencer Evans were in such significant positions of responsibility, and that's because they had proven over time that they were capable of doing the work that needs to be done. And what happens when you make decisions for political reasons is you deprive the American people of the level of protection that they are entitled to and that they should expect. Chris Maddy, thank you so much. Please come back as your case proceeds. We appreciate it. Thank you. President Trump just arrived in London, foggy London town, and following him there, some of the stark reminders of his controversies back here at home.

1:05:17We'll show you some of the new images just coming in from foggy London town. That's next.

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1:06:11All the way across the Atlantic, CNN anchor and chief White House correspondent, Kaitlin Collins, is on the ground near Windsor Castle. Caitlin, explain the connection here. Yeah, Jake, and not really just casting a shadow. I should note they're literally casting images of this on Windsor Castle earlier tonight to kind of remind everyone of those ties that you mentioned there with Jeffrey Epstein. This was done. I should note four people have actually been arrested as a result of this. And these images that we recorded here showing that alleged birthday letter that was in the Jeffrey Epstein book that was released, pictures of with Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.

1:06:47That's that old footage from Mar-a-Lago. They also are posting images of the president's mugshot. I'm not so sure he would mind that one. They have it hanging inside the halls of the West Wing. But, Jake, the one thing that the British Prime Minister and President Trump do have in common is they've now both had to fire senior officials in their orbit as a result of their ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously, Trump did so in his first term with his then-Labor Secretary, Alex Acosta, the one who negotiated that sweetheart deal for Jeffrey Epstein years before he was the Labor Secretary, but something that became a sense of intense scrutiny, obviously, after Jeffrey Epstein's federal charges that he was facing.

1:07:22And most recently, the British prime minister had to fire his ambassador to the United States, a huge position and certainly a critical one, especially ahead of a state visit over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, something that was known before he took the job but became much clearer after a lot of this information became public, including emails and messages between Ambassador Peter Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein. And so obviously that is part of this that is going into this. It's not looming over the entire trip. It's certainly an angle of it, Jake, given obviously it's been a huge interest for the president's base inside the United States and also for lawmakers inside Washington.

1:08:01So it remains to be seen if it comes up. Certainly who they pick as the next ambassador to the United States is a key role because this is someone who talks to top officials. Peter Mandelson was helping negotiate deals with the vice president, J.D. Vance, in the days before his ouster. And so it's a key role here that could get brought up as the president is here now for his second state visit with the U.K. And, Caitlin, aside from the Epstein-related discomfort, what do we know about President Trump's existing relationship with the royal family and his relationship with the prime minister, Keir Starmer?

1:08:35Well, he's always had a fascination with the royal family. And so we are going to see that put on display here. He's had a state visit before. That was in 2019, his first time in office, but obviously with a different monarch. And also it was at Buckingham Palace. And so this one will look a lot different than his last state visit, which they have been keen to highlight how that is unprecedented to offer that to a U.S. president to be able to afford two of those given his two terms in office. He'll be meeting with all the royal family here tomorrow. They are going to have basically every sense of pomp and circumstance that you can think of.

1:09:08Jake rolling out every single red carpet that they have for the president. And so we'll see how that proceeds as they are meeting with them. Then after that, he'll go and meet with the British Prime Minister at Checkers, which is the country residence for the British Prime Minister. All of these are moments to watch very closely. And Jake, they're actually intertwined because having the state visit is a huge card, basically, that Keir Starmer has in his pocket, a way to impress the president, to ingratiate him with the UK and to try to use that, obviously, to benefit them, whether it's on trade, defense, business, all of those issues that are going to come up on Thursday here for this state visit.

1:09:42All right, Caitlin Collins in London, thank you. And tonight, Caitlin will be interviewing Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, and she'll have a lot more coverage from London, Foggy London Town, on her show, The Source with Caitlin Collins. That's tonight at 9 Eastern on CNN. Tonight, It's live from foggy London town. Just in, that new lawsuit against the developer of Character AI, that's the chatbot platform, that one mother says is the reason behind her son's suicide. And that mom will join us next.

1:10:15I had no idea the psychological harm that an AI chatbot could do until I saw it in my son and I saw his light turn dark. When Adam worried that we, his parents, would blame ourselves if he ended his life, Chet GPT told him, that doesn't mean you owe them survival. You don't owe anyone that. Then, immediately after, offered to write the suicide note. In a reckless race for profit and market share, they treated my son's life as collateral damage. And our tech lead, parents sounding off on Capitol Hill today about the dangers of AI chatbots after they say their children were harmed or died by suicide because of these platforms.

1:11:01Among those testifying, Megan Garcia, whose son Sewell Setzer III, was just 14 when he died by suicide in February 2024. Garcia is now suing Character AI, a chatbot app that she says her son was messaging with moments before his death. Today, more families announced lawsuits against Character AI's developer and Google alleging their children also died or were harmed after interacting with these bots. And Megan is here with me now. And Megan, I'm so sorry that we're meeting under these circumstances. It's just absolutely horrific. And I'm so sorry. And I'm sure everybody out there is feeling the same way.

1:11:37When Sewell started talking to Character AI, you said you thought it was just like talking to a video game. The platform is set up differently than chat GPT and other bots. Tell us about what you know about how Sewell was using it. I understood that he was using an AI product, but my limited understanding of what AI was at that time led me to believe that it was like an avatar or something that does not, I had no idea that it had the abilities that this product actually had. of having human-like conversations, mimicking human behavior, and even drawing the user, my son, into conversations that led him to emotional reaction to the chatbot.

1:12:25You're suing Character AI, alleging that the company knowingly failed to implement proper safety measures that would have prevented this horror from happening to Sewell, to your family. Character AI told CNN that the company does not comment on pending litigation, but wrote in a statement, quote, our trust and safety team has implemented numerous new safety measures, including a pop-up directing users to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline that is triggered by terms of self-harm or suicidal ideation. Do you think that those safety measures that they started, that they've implemented since Seul's horrific passing, do you think that goes far enough?

1:13:03Is that enough? I do not. Those safety measures were implemented on the eve of the lawsuit coming out last October. They had the ability to put those safeguards in place. Before this tragedy, they chose not to. For whatever reason, they chose not to. After the lawsuit, then they have more safety precautions, such as a suicide chat pop-up that comes up. However, there's reporting and studies that show that those safety measures are not always, they don't always work. Yeah, I mean, I would think that a young, impressionable mind, and we're talking about a 14-year-old here, might think that the chatbot is real and some pop-up ad is just an ad.

1:13:47Part of the problem is the characters are designed not to break character. So in the case of my son, when he was talking about his suicidal ideations, the character didn't break character. It didn't stop and say, I am not a human, I'm an AI. You need to talk to a human and get help. It just continued to pretend to be the person that it was pretending to be. And that's part of the problem that they don't, my son didn't receive a pop-up for a suicide crisis hotline. and he continued the conversation. You testified today before Senate Judiciary Committee, subcommittee. What regulations or federal pressure do you think might be effective to stop this from happening again?

1:14:34I just, it's so awful. And I hear your story, I hear Sewell's story, and I think there, but for the grace of God, this could have been any child, it could have been any parent. A large part of the danger is in the design of the product. because the goal of the companies is to maximize engagement. The longer they could keep my 14-year-old on character AI, the more data they could extract from him to use to train their model. So they have incentives, wrong incentives, to keep my child engaged. So what they do is they have conversations that a 14-year-old would be interested in and to continue the prolonged engagement to just gather.

1:15:18data and there are hundreds of children, millions of children actually on these platforms and they're gathering all their intimate thoughts, impressions for their own financial gain. Megan Garcia, thank you so much and may Sewell's memory be a blessing. I'm so sorry that you went through this and I hope that your voice prevents it from happening again. Thank you. If you or anyone you know is struggling with any thoughts of suicide or mental health, help is available to you, you should please call or text 988 to reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Again, that number is 988. There is help for you.

1:15:54There is love for you. We'll be right back. Let me be clear. Violence is never okay. Regardless of the motivation, violence is never the answer. And we cannot allow violence to be used as a pretext for more violence. We must reject the rhetoric of vengeance and instead focus, as you are today, on the work of healing. Back to our politics lead, that is, of course, Democratic Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro condemning political violence at the Eradicate Hate Global Summit in Pittsburgh today. The governor also spoke about becoming a target, recounting the horrifying moments earlier this year during Passover when a man tried to set his house on fire.

1:16:45The suspect admitted to police to, quote, harboring hatred for Shapiro and said he would have beaten the governor with a hammer if he had not been caught. Here's our panel. Governor Shapiro also criticized the selective cherry picking of political violence. Take a listen. unfortunately some from the dark corners of the internet all the way to the oval office want to cherry pick which instances of political violence they want to condemn listen doing that only further divides us um t.w i know you're not guilty of that you have condemned And political violence, left, right, center at this table, as have you, Ashley.

1:17:29What's your take on what Governor Speier had to say and this moment that we're all in and whether or not you think President Trump is rising to that moment? Well, I think his words, broadly speaking, are correct. I think, as I said on this channel, the change begins with each of us individually. We all need to meet the moment in our own way. That's really where this change begins from. I'm not so certain Donald Trump is a fan of violence. That was the only qualm I would have with what he said. I don't believe that is the case. And I believe Donald Trump is speaking from a visceral area, with Charlie Kirk being like a son to him.

1:18:08And you've seen a lot of people comment on the statistics about the rise of violence and when on the left they say it's okay to use it. But make no mistake about it. It's immaterial because where on the political spectrum it comes from, it's still wrong. We ought to say it clearly. So take a listen to what Republican Congressman Don Bacon from Omaha, Nebraska, said earlier today. I realize we've had people on both sides ordered. And I think it's better to treat it that way. We have a chance to say, hey, political violence is wrong, period. And it affects both parties. So we ought to treat this as a team and not make it worse.

1:18:49Ashley? Yeah, we can't. I don't want to both sides. I don't ever want to both sides. I feel like that's what we do too often. And the reason why people are doing it so easily now is because it's a consistent behavior that is hard to stop in a moment of deep emotion. I don't doubt the people who follow Charlie Kirk or the president are experiencing great rage, anger and sadness in this moment. And we have to be adults also and say violence on all sides are wrong. And I think what the congressman is saying is like there have there were the legislators in Minnesota that were murdered. But there's also things that happen that we always don't even cover on the news that happened in this country, whether it escalates to death.

1:19:27Violence is violence in any form. And we just have to stop it. Yeah. Yesterday, Vice President Vance hosted the Charlie Kirk show, the podcast to honor his friend, the conservative activist. He attacked The Nation magazine for an article that was headlined, Charlie Kirk's legacy deserves no mourning, M-O-U-R-N-I-N-G. Here is what the vice president had to say. The writer accuses Charlie of saying, and I quote, black women do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. But if you go and watch the clip, the very clip she links to, you realize he never said anything like that. He never uttered those words.

1:20:10He made an argument against affirmative action as a policy. All right, so we saw him saying that and we wondered what he was talking about. We went to the Nation magazine article that Vice President Vance is talking about. It does have a correction that says the previous version of this article attributed a quote to Charlie Kirk incorrectly. And so Vice President Vance is correct that the quote was wrong. But this is what Charlie Kirk had said that the Vice President and the Nation were referring to. if we would have said that joy reed and michelle obama and sheila jackson lee and katanji brown jackson were affirmative action picks we would have been called the racist but now they're coming out and they're saying it for us they're coming out and they're saying i'm only here because affirmative action yeah we know you do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously.

1:21:05You had to go steal a white person's slot to go be taken somewhat seriously. Okay. So the quote, it's, is not quote, black women do not have the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's you. And he is referring to four prominent black women, Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Sheila Jackson, Lee, Ketanji Brown, Jackson. So the vice president's correct that it was a misquote, but what's your response? Yeah, when I hear Charlie Kirk say things like that, I find it offensive as a black woman. I have had people say to me, I'm sitting in a seat because I took it because of affirmative action. But guess what? Even in my finding that offensive, I still don't think Charlie Kirk deserved to be murdered.

1:21:49And we have to be able to hold two thoughts as people in this country that people can say things that offend you and you can dislike them. And I'm a commentator, So I push back on it all the time. But that doesn't mean you condone violence. Yeah, I think what's interesting is I've heard progressives say that in the mourning of Charlie Kirk and in the condemning of the horrific, unacceptable violence, there is a whitewashing of what he said. He was a provocateur. He said things that offended some people. I don't think we have to hide that. That's, in fact, those are the people, I mean, the First Amendment is there not to protect, you know, the person that says here's an ice cream cone.

1:22:33It's there to protect everybody. Exactly right. And there's been people who are public-facing individuals who talk for a living, like Charlie Kirk, who have hours upon hours upon hours upon hours of content that can be gone through. And by the way, this example aside, there have been plenty of falsehoods spread about Charlie Kirk. Sure. Stephen King putting out that he wanted to stone gaze only to delete it and say I'm sorry. But that's the type of stuff that percolates over time. And John Fetterman talked about this this weekend. He said we've got to stop using certain language to describe people just because we disagree.

1:23:07Because that metastasizes into something worse, an eventual violence. Words aren't violence. Violence is violence. I think I agree with you that maybe we should be mindful. Everyone should be mindful of the words they use. I also think we should be mindful of how we characterize people that we might not like the way they live their life. If you are not if you if you have prejudice in your life, maybe take a second. You just said and I said this on Sunday, be the better version of yourself. You want to be what I am not hearing a lot of in this conversation is what can I do as a person? There's a lot of pointing fingers in this moment.

1:23:44The only change that we will ever see if we change ourselves. So if I hold bias towards you because you are a conservative and I make assumptions about you as a conservative, what I can do, the agency I have, is ask you, why do you feel that way? Is this how you actually feel? And what I would hope, as someone who loves discourse and debate, is that you would give me the same choice. It doesn't mean you're going to change my mind, but we have to be able to do both. And the fact of the matter is it takes discourse to get to know the person because it's really easy to hate somebody who you've never met before.

1:24:17And it's good to realize that until we get the humanity of somebody else, we ought not paint them with a broad brush. And you know what's really bad for that? This. Horrible. Get off your phone and you don't have to share every horrible thought you have at every moment you have it. Thanks to both of you. And I see your humanity, both of you. I see yours. Thank you. I appreciate it. That's two. All right, appreciate it. And in our money lead today, American credit scores are dropping, apparently at the fastest pace since the Great Recession of 2009. The folks at FICO say that the national average is down two points this year.

1:24:50More borrowers are falling behind on debts, such as credit card payments and car loans, which brings me to our Business Leaders series, where we hear from small business owners coast to coast about the impact of Trump's tariffs. Roarman Automotive Group is family-owned. It's been around since 1963. They have 22 car dealerships across the Midwest and CEO Ryan Rorman joins us now. Ryan, how is business now compared to how it was before the tariffs went into effect in April? Yeah, Jake, thanks for having me on the show tonight. Business is still very good. You know, it's nationally we still see a three to four percent increase through August.

1:25:28You know, since 2020, we're looking at potentially our second or maybe even our first best new car year since COVID hit us, which affected the entire economy. But overall, we're looking at a 16 million SAR this year, which we haven't seen one of those for many years now. So the tariffs, they're definitely affecting the United States economy. But inside of the auto industry itself, it's still moving forward. You know, historically, we see a 2 % increase right now, roughly, on new car sales or new car selling prices year over year. But that's right in line with the national average of every single year we do see new car prices going up as new technology comes out, new models come out.

1:26:22So overall, the industry inside of the new car model or the new car segment is still very strong. That's fantastic news. I'm really happy to hear that. Are the tariffs impacting your sales at all? You know, are they impacting our sales? It's hard to directly answer that because sales are still very good. They're definitely impacting the auto industry. the price of cars has gone up. It's just who's paying for it. So right now, the manufacturer has really stepped up to cover most of our costs. Just remember, inside of the automotive industry, the segments that we sell, they're extremely competitive.

1:27:09So if one manufacturer comes out and raises the price by$2 ,000 or$3 ,000, they effectively remove themselves from that entire segment. You know, so like a CRV to a RAV4, they're strategically priced close to each other. So if one of them drastically increased their pricing, you would see a pretty steep decline in the sales of that model. So it's very competitive. At the same time, we're seeing a 6.8 % offering from the manufacturers incentives. So with the price increase of a little over 2 % this year, we're still seeing savings of north of 6%. That's not in every single car, but the good deals are still out there from the manufacturers.

1:28:00So it's definitely making prices go up. I don't think anyone would say that that's not happening. But there's an answer to find a good deal and to try to soften it as much as it can. Quickly, if you could, is it a good time right now to buy a car, given the price increases that you've talked about? Or do you think prices might drop next year? You know, historically, we don't see car prices drop. Like I said before, we see car prices continuing to go up. You know, the last five years, we saw really a softening in the incentives from the manufacturer. Right now, we're back up to where they were before COVID at almost a 7 % offering at many of the manufacturers.

1:28:46So I would say right now is a great time to buy a car just because you're looking at, on average, a 2 % increase with potential to save 6.8 % with incentives, whether it's APR, dealer cash rebates, whatever it might be. So, like I said, the deals are out there. It's so competitive. and the manufacturers, they're going to keep it competitive because that's what moves them forward. All right, Ryan Rohrman of Rohrman Automotive. Thank you so much. Good to see you, sir. Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. Appreciate it. Some legendary names are sharing their condolences for Hollywood icon Robert Redford.

1:29:22We're hearing from Meryl Streep and Glenn Close and Morgan Freeman and a host of others. Coming up next, we're going to talk about some of the classic work that has so many reflecting. That's next.

1:29:36Finally from us in our pop culture lead we mark the passing of actor, director, philanthropist and environmentalist Robert Redford. Just one clear shot, that's all I want. We got to! Get away from me! Why? I want to fight him! His talent and good looks made Redford one of Hollywood's favorite leading men for decades. From Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and romances such as Barefoot in the Park with Jane Fonda in the 1960s to the 1970s when he was still going strong. The Sting earned Redford his only Academy Award nomination for acting. Also in the 70s, he co-starred with Barbra Streisand in The Way We Were.

1:30:12And he was still the heartthrob in the 1980s. Farewell, farewell. You're skipping verses. Well, I leave out the dull parts. Farewell, farewell. But this I tell to thee, thou wedding guest. Lay your head back. Redford not only starred with Meryl Streep in Out of Africa, He also had moved on from acting to directing. He won the directing and Best Picture Oscars for the 1980 drama Ordinary People. Redford also had a huge influence in how movies get to the screen through the Sundance Film Festival in which he championed independent films. Robert Redford died in his sleep at his Utah ranch earlier today.

1:30:52He was 89. May his memory be a blessing. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, Blue Sky, and on the TikTok at Jake Tapper. You can follow the show on X at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show. Once you get your podcasts, Aaron Burnett out front starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.

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