Thune: Epstein Bill Could Be Passed In Senate As Soon As Tonight

26:03has something to do with her donations from corporate political action committees or something else. Her office did not respond to that Axios article. After today's vote, Glusenka Perez said that she is profoundly grateful to those who stood with her. She wrote, quote, Congress is a legislative body, not a social club, and the American people will not accept blind calls to party loyalty in defense of an effort to deny them the right to a free and fair election. Interpolitics lead a new bipartisan call for congressional term limits. Now, maybe you're thinking, yeah, you've heard this before. Well, it's true.

26:38During her 2024 run for president, Republican Nikki Haley memorably mocked Congress as the most privileged nursing home in the U.S. And now Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis, who is a former member of the House, has teamed up with a former colleague, Democratic former Maryland Congressman David Trone. And they're co-chairing an effort to establish congressional term limits. Thanks for being here, guys. We really appreciate it. So in a recent New York Times op-ed, you guys wrote, quote, the House and the Senate are dominated by career politicians buoyed by reelection rates that routinely exceed 90 percent, who seem more concerned with clinging to power than serving the public.

27:15How will term limits change that, do you think? Well, one, I mean, people support term limits. We're a divided country on so many things. I've never seen an issue. Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, black, white, rich, they support term limits. Why? Because we do need new blood in Congress. And people say, well, the election's the term limit. The incumbents hardwire this in with the party nominations, campaign finance, congressional franking. It is not an even playing field. And so doing congressional term limits forces turnover. And I think it will draw a great class of people to want to serve.

27:49How will you force your former colleagues to willingly give up power? Because obviously this would have to become something that goes through the House and the Senate. Congress has to pass it, but we got to start with the state legislatures. They get Title V amendments and force a convention, possibly at the state legislature. But by 34 states, if they sign up, we have 12 already, then they're going to have to have a constitutional convention, limited term limits only. 50 states will determine what they want to do. That's out of control of Congress. Then after it's ratified by 38 states, it would become law.

28:28That'll never happen. Never, never. Because Congress will step in to save their own skin and grandfather themselves in and pick a number. They'll pick a number. We might not agree what the number might be. It doesn't matter. Congress will control that. So one of the best arguments I've heard against term limits is that it will end up empowering the unelected, meaning lobbyists and staffers. What's your response to that? Could they be any more empowered, Jake? I mean, think about it. We have a massive bureaucracy. some people like it, I don't, that is exercising massive amounts. It's a fourth branch of government.

29:01Congress has given away its power over the years. Congress doesn't do appropriations like they're supposed to. They do massive omnibus bills. Who's writing those omnibus bills? Is that a deliberative process? No, that's congressional staff that's doing it. So I think they're already very powerful. I don't see how the balance could be tipped anymore. What I think may happen, or I think will happen, You have new blood. There'll be reformers. And it's not going to be good enough to say, well, this is how we've always done it. How you're doing it has not worked for this country. That's really well said.

29:32But I think we should add that Jake Abramoff, the old mega lobbyist with the prison four year 2008, his comment was, I don't like term limits. No lobbyists like term limits because then we have to repurchase new legislators. It's a bad day. So what about the argument that you were taking away choice from the voters? because, you know, let's just say there are some people who actually think they have good representation in Congress. Let's assume that your constituents, when you remember the House, and your constituents, when you remember the House. What about that? Like, some of these people are good at their jobs, and they want them.

30:03So there are definitely going to be examples where people are doing great, and they're going to be term limited out. But that's going to be outweighed by the good that's going to come from liberating people from the entrenched political class that has caused so much problems. And so no one's ever said it's 100 % panacea, but I think we'll be much better off if we have term limits. And interestingly, the founders thought about doing term limits, and they decided not to. Part of it's like, why would people want to be in Congress for third? They just didn't think it would be your horse and buggy.

30:32I think the founders today would say that it would be a good positive reform. By CNN's count, with a little less than one year until the midterms of 2026, 37 House members, including 22 Republicans, 15 Democrats, plan to leave Congress. That's more than usual. Another argument from them might be, we don't need to change the Constitution. There's already turnover. Turnover is just so negligible. And as you said, with 95 % reelection rate and everyone staying 30, 40 years, I saw a comment the other day that said, you know, Congress is less popular than traffic jams. That's a bad day. I mean, nothing is getting done in this toxic atmosphere.

31:11We've got to say new ideas. That's what's got to rule. And I think what happens is seniority plays such a big role. So it's true. There'll be people that only serve two because they get frustrated because there's no upward mobility. I mean, I remember when I was in, like, every Democrat ranking member, I think, was probably in their 70s. A lot of the Republicans were there. So you literally have to say you're going to do 20, 25, 30 years to actually be in a position where you're going to be able to exercise significant influence over the legislative process. A lot of people get burnt out from that.

31:41They're like, I don't want to do that. So the turnover, I think, is pushing out some idealistic people who are running into the congressional meat grinder. But Governor, at the best standpoint there, it's in eliminating the seniority system, have a system based on merit and good ideas and a sense of urgency that we've got to get something done, serve and go home. The founding fathers did not put in term limits for the president either, but they were added after FDR. President Trump faces those term limits. He is not going to be able to run for reelection in 2028. Are you thinking of maybe running?

32:15I'm not thinking about anything because I think we have a president now who's not even been in for a year. We've got a lot that we've got to accomplish. I'm obviously working hard to keep plates on the board in Florida. But look at the election results two weeks ago for Republicans. That was not good. You know, we've got to do a good job as Republicans. And I think that should be the number one priority. And the way you do well in the midterm elections is to produce positive results. And so I would focus on that. This jockeying and all that I don't think is productive for us. Get things done for people.

32:46You know, we showed in Florida. When I came in, we were a purple state. You know, now we're considered a red state because we produce results and people follow it. All right. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, former Democratic Congressman David Trones, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. The federal appeals court is now blocking Texas from using its newly drawn congressional map in next year's midterm elections. It's a major setback for President Trump, Governor Abbott and state Republicans in the ruling. A Trump appointed judge, Trump appointed judge. Let me say that again. Wrote, quote, substantial evidence shows that Texas racially gerrymandered the 2025 map.

33:21Racial gerrymandering is deemed unconstitutional. President Trump asked Texas to redraw some districts to help Republicans pick up five more seats in the House in 2026. Here in studio is the panel. So the court ordered Texas to use its previous map, which the state enacted after the 2020 census. The ruling is likely to be appealed. I should note the one that I just talked about. But, Joe, Texas did kick off this redistricting arms race that's happening all across the country. What's your reaction? I think this fight is far from over. I mean, Texas was sort of the first out of the box, even though it's been tried here in New York two years prior unsuccessfully.

33:56I think this is not going to resolve anything. I think, as you pointed out, you're going to see an appeal quickly from Republicans in the state. I think they have a good argument to appeal the process on. However, I don't know what's going to happen with the other states. Democratic states have promises to promise to do this in response. Will Maryland take a step back now that Texas may have a setback? Will California, will Gavin Newsom take a setback after winning in the referendum? I don't think so. So I think this is far from over. And I think people should get their fighting feet ready. So in response to the ruling, let me answer your question about Gavin Newsom out there in California.

34:27Governor Newsom posted, quote, Donald Trump and Greg Abbott played with fire, got burned and democracy won. And as you know, weeks ago, California voters overwhelmingly backed Democrats tit for tat plan to try to pick up five seats that would lean Democrat in response to what Texas did. Republicans challenged the California maps in federal court, arguing it violates the Constitution because, quote, it drew new congressional district lines based on race specifically to favor Hispanic voters. So the Justice Department has since joined that lawsuit. Again, this is all just playing up. But, Christine, Governor Newsom predicts the challenge to California's map will fail.

35:01What do you think? Look, first of all, I think Joe's right. This is far from over. Nobody's giving in. It's a bad day for the president because I think the president and Governor Abbott really thought they had an easy go of it, that they were just going to redraw the maps and everything was going to be fine. And I think it's probably shocking to the president that a judge that he appointed went against him, particularly today, when so many other Republicans have gone against him. But there's no reason that Maryland or California or any other state is going to back down because we don't know what's going to happen on appeal.

35:34And at the end of the day, if you think you've just in round one, you're ultimately going to lose the fight. Interesting. So over the past few days, President Trump has been focusing on Indiana to pick up at least a seat or two. And he's been pressuring Governor Mike Braun to pick up two Republican seats. Today, the governor posted, quote, I will support President Trump's efforts to recruit, endorse and finance primary challengers for Indiana senators who refuse to support fair maps, what he calls fair maps. Joe, this comes after state Republicans voted to adjourn the state Senate until January, because they were not on board.

36:08What do you think about primary threats that President Trump is pushing against people who aren't on board with this redistricting effort? Look, I think the president faces a very existential threat by losing the House come January of 2027. I think we have to do everything possible to keep up with Democrats. What's the existential threat? Just impeachment? No, the existential threat is potentially losing the House and losing the agenda. Things have been going great. We have one big, beautiful bill. We're reducing inflation. We're making trade deals. We're repatriating money. All of this stuff is good stuff that's happening for the administration.

36:40It wouldn't happen if Democrats like Hakeem Jeffries and his company were there leading the House. That just wouldn't be the case. So if you believe in President Trump, if you believe in the MAGA movement, yeah, you want to see some some feet to the fire when it comes to getting some of these maps redrawn. And, Christine, let's turn to the Epstein files, because just moments ago, the Senate agreed by unanimous consent to consent to approve this House bill, which earlier in the day passed 427 to 1 after Republican leaders like Speaker Johnson called it a political show vote by Democrats. What's your response to this?

37:10I mean, I am very heartened that the bill went through the House so quickly and so overwhelmingly and that the Senate is going to take it up. Because, you know, this conversation has deteriorated, mostly led by the president, to one about politics. And look, Joe Biden should have released these files. This is not a Republican or Democratic issue. It's about those women who were girls when this happened. And we seem to forget that. And they are so courageous. They were out there today. I'm glad that this will come to an end. This part of it will come to an end for them today. Because you have to remember, every time this gets brought up in the press and somebody like the president calls it a hoax or a political maneuver, It's another punch in the gut to these women who saw their childhood ripped apart by this horrible man.

37:59And the president needs to stop making it about politics. So here's what, Joe, here's what one White House official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to Politico about this controversy. Quote, are people ever going to be satisfied? No, because people in this country genuinely believe that the federal government is in possession of a list of pedophiles who worked with Jeffrey Epstein. And that is just not true. Unquote. Now, I want to remind our viewers why some people out there might think that the government has such a list. Take a listen. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.

38:32Will that really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing. I mean, this is one of the reasons why people think that list exists, because people like Pam Bondi and Vice President Vance, although he wasn't vice president at that moment, have been talking about the Epstein list. Look, I don't blame anyone for thinking there's an Epstein list because the one thing we do know is that more people know about Epstein, his clients, and his victims than are being told about now.

39:01That's why I think Republicans ran on this issue. They promised to do it, and I'm glad they delivered. But we can't forget that Chair Comer, the House Oversight Investigation, is trying to get, by the way, the one president who's been in a photograph with one of the Epstein accusers getting a massage. She was 22 in that picture, and she told the investigators that she had been raped and tortured by Jeffrey Epstein for four years. That president does not want to testify before the House Oversight Committee. If the Democrats are suddenly, who suddenly got serious, and this is why it's political, it suddenly became an issue when Democrats needed to divert from the shutdown, but if Democrats remain serious, they should encourage President Clinton to testify before the committee.

39:39There have been people, Democrats and Republicans, who've been working to get this list out for years. It has nothing to do with the shutdown. It has to do with what is right. And let's be clear, whether it's Larry Sommer or any other Democrat, whether they were president of the United States or a dog walker, they should come out and they should be held accountable. Tell President Clinton to testify. Anybody who has anything to do with this should come forward and testify. Thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it. Coming up next, connecting the dots on four different cases of alleged mortgage fraud, all of them involving perceived enemies of President Trump and tied to one single Trump official, whose name keeps coming up in these investigations.

40:18Stay with us.

40:35WiesoSteuer is the app that you understand. Because Steuer is your whole life. Work, children, partner. You can't do anything wrong. Right, nice. It doesn't feel like Steuern. Steuern completed? Safe. With WiesoSteuer. Now test it free.

41:05These senators are asking the Government Accountability Office to probe whether Bill Pulte, who leads the little-known Federal Housing Finance Agency, misused government resources with his various accusations of mortgage fraud against prominent Trump foes. Pulte's attacks have rankled his opponents as well as some officials in the Trump White House. He's a fierce Trump loyalist and increasingly one of the loudest voices in the administration. What data is he looking at to keep up rates? He's looking at no data. He's looking at his own hate, in my opinion, for President Trump, which is disgusting.

41:40And today there are serious questions about whether he is misusing his powers, weaponizing the access he has to confidential information in order to seek vengeance against Trump's political foes. His name is Bill Pulte. He's chair of both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the massive government-backed mortgage firms. At Fannie Mae, we have$4.3 trillion, if you can believe that, on our balance sheet. At Freddie Mac, we have over$3 trillion. In just over eight months, in what is usually a low-profile regulatory position, Pulte has become deeply embroiled in a slew of controversies. Because, frankly, his position is not supposed to be used to fish for potentially damaging information about politicians in the other party.

42:23I'm not going to be intimidated by the media, the politicians. They can say whatever they want. Pulte ousted about a dozen internal watchdogs at Fannie Mae, according to the Wall Street Journal. That move reportedly coming after an internal investigation at Fannie Mae into whether Pulte improperly accessed the mortgage records of Democrats, including New York Democratic Attorney General Letitia James, who previously pursued criminal charges against Trump. If you commit mortgage fraud, you know, you need to be held accountable, period. Pulte denies the firings were related to the probe, instead telling the Journal that the layoffs were part of efforts to rein in investigations related to DEI programs.

43:02It is clear that there is an effort targeting several of President Trump's perceived enemies, sending criminal referrals for alleged mortgage fraud to the Justice Department. In addition to Letitia James, targets include Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, California Democratic Senator Adam Schiff, and most recently, California Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell, all of whom deny wrongdoing. It's all nonsense. Next week, when we hear about someone else who's a political opponent of Donald Trump being investigated, it will also be nonsense. Like Trump, Pulte is the scion of a home-building fortune, worth at least$190 million, according to his financial disclosures.

43:42Pulte's frequent visits to the White House and influence with the president have irked some in the Trump administration. Back in September, according to sources, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant almost came to blows with Pulte after Besant accused Pulte of talking negatively about him to Trump in private. More recently, much to the chagrin of others in the Trump administration, Pulte pushed Trump to advocate for a 50-year mortgage plan. It's not even a big deal. I mean, you know, you go from 40 to 50 years, and what it means is you pay something less. The idea was widely panned across the political spectrum, including among his supporters.

44:19But Trump has so far ignored criticism of Pulte, instead cheering him on on truth social messages such as this, writing, keep moving forward, William. Don't let the radical left weakling stop you. It is worth pointing out that taxpayers are footing the bill for Pulte's efforts that have resulted in acts of revenge against Trump's enemies. So far, none of the criminal referrals from Bill Pulte have resulted in indictments. Republican officials who have listed multiple properties as their principal residences in mortgage filings have not faced similar scrutiny. This is CNN Breaking News. Welcome to The Lead.

45:00I'm Jake Tapper. Two major events breaking tonight in Washington, D.C. The Senate has unanimously agreed to pass the bill to release the Epstein files, which passed the House overwhelmingly earlier today. It's a rare move, meaning the moment. That bill gets to the Senate. It will be fast-tracked to President Trump's desk. We'll have much more on that in a moment. But right now at the White House, the president and first lady are preparing to host a lavish dinner for Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, or MBS, after a, shall we call it, remarkable press conference in the Oval Office, where Trump blatantly defended MBS when he was asked about his role, confirmed by the CIA, in the murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

45:41Earlier today, a flyover of F-35 fighter jets, the same kind Trump says he will sell to Saudi Arabia. CNN's Caitlin Collins is at the White House for us. And Caitlin, President Trump shockingly opened the meeting by praising, of all things, Saudi Arabia's record on human rights. Yeah, Jake. And then came the question to the crown prince directly from a U.S. reporter in the room, my colleague at ABC News, Mary Bruce, who asked the Saudi crown prince MBS about Jamal Khashoggi's killing and the fury that not only his family and loved ones, but also the family and loved ones of 9-11 victims have about his presence inside the Oval Office today.

46:20Obviously, the first time that he has been inside the West Wing ever since U.S. intelligence agencies determined that he had personally ordered the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. And it was the president who stepped in, Jake, in that moment to defend the Saudi crown prince and say that he believed that he had nothing to do with the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened. But he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that.

46:54You don't have to embarrass our guests. Now, Jake, on this notion that he knew nothing about it, that is the direct opposite of what President Trump's own CIA determined in 2018 after Jamal Khashoggi was murdered inside that Saudi consulate. When they put out their own intelligence assessment that CNN reported on and others did at the time, saying that they believed that he had ordered it. And to speak to the degree of that investigation and what that looked like in that time, Jake, for those who don't remember,

47:25Khashoggi. She listened to tapes, she interviewed officials, and obviously the CIA came back with that highly likely assessment that the Saudi crown prince had ordered this. And so the president was not only saying that he has a good record on human rights, he was contradicting what his own CIA said at the time and defending him as reporters were questioning him about it. He also was throwing shade at the late Jamal Khashoggi, saying people didn't like him.

47:55It's Epstein files vote. You're hearing that the MBS dinner may play into the timing of when President Trump signs this bill? Yeah, because the the crown prince and his wife are about to show up here in about the next half hour or so, Jake, for their arrival. Then there's a receiving line at the White House. And then that dinner that is everything but a state dinner that is going to be taking place here with a lot of high profile guests at the White House. And so we're waiting to see when the Senate actually sends over the bill to the White House and how that factors into when President Trump is going to sign it.

48:25I'm told that he's going to be basically be presented with options, whether he can do so tonight on camera or off camera, or if he waits and does so tomorrow morning, if it doesn't come over here until after that dinner has started. But one thing we do know is that Jake, the president said yesterday he will be signing that bill. So the question that comes after that is what exactly the Justice Department is going to do with it, because there's a few caveats in the language of that resolution. So that remains to be seen. All right, Caitlin Collins at the White House, thank you so much. And of course, Don't forget to watch The Source with Caitlin Collins this evening on the show tonight.

48:57Democrat Ro Khanna and Republican Thomas Massey, those two led the push to get the Epstein bill passed. She's also going to talk with more Epstein survivors. That's again on The Source with Caitlin Collins tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN. Joining us now to discuss is the widow of Jamal Khashoggi, Hanan Khashoggi. Hanan, first of all, I'm so sorry for your loss. It is so awful what you and your family have been through. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. I'm wondering what your reaction was when you heard President Trump today asked about your husband's murder, calling him controversial and defending the man that U.S.

49:36intelligence says was directly involved in his murder. What was your response? I was disappointed for two reasons. First, to kind of stopping a journalist to do her job by asking. And this reminds me some of the country in Middle East, which we don't like to see this practice here in U.S. And second, to describe Jamal in such a way is not true. It is not related to Jamal. and the kind of justifying the crime by presenting Jamal this way and saying he's controversial. And some people does not like him, which has happened with every human being. It does not mean to kidnap him, torture him and to take his life away.

50:26And Jamal was not this person as being described today. It was upsetting for me. I have to say it was upsetting for me. Yeah, almost like blaming a victim for what happened to him. If President Trump were listening right now, what would you say to him? I will tell him, Mr. President, I look at you as a peaceman and I really wish to meet you for I can introduce Jamal in the right way and as a real way you're not aware of. And I will share with you a lot about Jamal and it will change your opinion totally about him. Jamal was a transparent man, was a kind man, and he was very, very stable and been loved with a lot of normal people who love such a person who is transparent and honest like Jamal.

51:19You're showing the president a lot of grace with those comments. You had previously written directly to both President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump asking for help with accountability over Jamal's murder, including the recovery of his body. Do the president's remarks today make you less hopeful about getting a response? I feel like they not been alerted maybe about my message. But today by appearing in the media, maybe it will alert them and it will open the door for me, which is I wish. I really wish to share with them the real Jamal and what he was vision and mission, and also what happened after this horrible crime, how it's bad impacting me.

52:04This is what I wish, and even if they did not respond yet, I'm still persisting to seek help and to continue seeking justice for myself and Jamal. You called him a transparent man. You called him a kind man. What has your life been like without him? It's a hell. It's seven years of hell, sir. It is basically I'm a second victim. They killed Jamal and they killed me in the same day they killed him. I don't have any normal life. I live isolated with less income. I'm speaking only to my first family because of sensitivity of my case. I'm speaking to my lawyers and trying to get justice at any country, anywhere, because I have a privilege as a previous cabin crew for 22 years with Emirates Alliance.

52:57I did land in a lot of countries and I've been spying a lot of countries. They spying me before they killed Jamal. And this gave me opportunity to file a case in different locations like UK, France, Canada and Norway. way. Hanan Khashoggi, thank you so much. May the memory of Jamal be a blessing. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for remembering him. I really appreciate it. Thank you. We remember him all the time and we mention him all the time. We will be keeping watch for the first images as the president welcomes the man said to be responsible for Jamal Khashoggi's murder, Saudi Crown Prince MBS, for a second time today at the White House.

53:35But first, the breaking news on Capitol Hill. A moment ago, the U.S. Senate agreeing unanimously to just fast track the vote to release the Epstein files and send the legislation over to the president. I'm going to talk about this moment with an Epstein survivor. What accountability might look like if those files are ever released and the names are named. That's next.

54:04Now that other major story in our Law and Justice League, you're watching members of the House of Representatives looking up and applauding a group of brave survivors of dead pedophile and sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein, survivor of his abuse and his trafficking. That was just seconds after the House almost unanimously passed that bill to release the Epstein files. Take a listen to one survivor earlier today before the vote. Without transparency, there's no accountability. Without accountability, there is no justice. And without justice, democracy dies. That was survivor Jess Michaels. You might recognize her from her appearances on this show.

54:47She held up a photograph of herself in 1991 when she met Epstein. She was only 22. And Jess Michaels joins us now. Jess, how are you? How are you feeling? This must be quite an emotional day. It's overwhelming. It's hopeful. It's more than we expected to get. So we're truly grateful. You and other survivors watched the vote from the House balcony. What was that moment like? Well, they initially decided to do just a verbal vote. Do you know when they just they just scream out whether it's yay or nay? But then they decided that they wanted to do an electronic vote, which means we actually sat there for 15 minutes and watched watched the names change with their vote.

55:37So we have this visual representation of all of us unanimously joining, joining in supporting survivors and and showing us that they are not going to stay silent about powerful predators. The House bill says that the attorney general can redact victims names and any information that would compromise any ongoing investigation. There might be some heavy redactions. Speaker Johnson insists that this is to protect the victims. What do you think of all this? Are you worried at all that the redactions might be excessive not to protect survivors, but to protect the villains in this story? Of course. We are most definitely concerned about that.

56:24And we expressed that today. We were on the Hill all day speaking to representatives. We were in Speaker Johnson's office. We were in James Comer's office. really making sure they understood that as survivors, we've waited too long. There's never going to come a point when those files are perfect, perfectly safe to put out. And we have spoken to survivors that are even not public now, that are Jane Doe's. And we all agree it is time to release the files so that accountability and justice can happen. And one of the things, one of the questions I see on social media all the time is, why aren't you and your fellow survivors naming these perpetrators who are walking free?

57:06And I think it's important to remind people because you have all been threatened, some physically, some emotionally, and some with litigation, some with lawsuits. And it's not for you to name names. It's for the government, the Justice Department, the prosecutors to name names. We need the people that have failed us for decades to finally do their job. And and we don't need to continue forcing this. You know, there was a there was a staffer there today that we spoke to. And this phrase will live with me. For for the rest of my life, she in tears said to us, it shouldn't take an act of Congress for you guys to get justice.

57:49And it shouldn't. Given the overwhelming vote to release the Epstein files in the House and now this, you know, just the Senate just saying send it to the president. As soon as you send it here, it's passed. Do you have a renewed hope for justice and accountability? I have a renewed hope that this incredible group of women and Virginia Jaffray's family, Skye and Amanda, that we have moved mountains. I have incredible hope in the American people standing behind us and forcing Congress to act in the American public's best interest. So what happens next, I'm not sure, but I have a great deal of hope and inspiration from what we have been able to accomplish in the last three and a half months.

58:44Well, Jess Michaels, congratulations and thank you for your courage. And I hope that there is justice and accountability to come. Thank you. This hour, we expect to see the second half of the day for the Saudi crown prince at the White House. President Trump pulling out all the stops for someone that U.S. intelligence once said is the guy who ordered the murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. We're going to bring that to you. But first, the deadly stabbing and car ramming attack in the occupied West Bank. That's next.

59:17In our Worldly Today, Palestinian attackers fatally stabbed one person and injured three others in a stabbing and vehicle ramming incident in the occupied West Bank. The incident comes one day after Israeli settlers set fire to Palestinian homes and vehicles in a Palestinian village southwest of Bethlehem. This surge of violence in the West Bank played out as the U.N. Security Council was voting to back President Trump's peace plan for a post-war Gaza. Sinan's Nick Robertson joins us now from Jerusalem. Nick, what is the latest out of the Middle East? Well, Jake, this attack in the West Bank comes at a time of rising tensions there off the back of a number of settler attacks over recent weeks.

1:00:02That's been spiking the attack today. Attackers ramming their car and then jumping out and stabbing people. One elderly man killed a woman and a 15-year-old seriously injured. Another person moderately injured. two people killed, two Palestinian assailants shot dead at the scene. And this, of course, coming right on the heels of the UN Security Council voting through a resolution penned by the United States that really gives a legal footing now for President Trump's 20-point plan for peace in Gaza. And it realizes now, or puts in place, if you will, a board of peace. It announces that there will be an international stabilization force form, that announces that there will be a Palestinian police that are being trained by Egyptians and Jordanians, that all of those will go into place.

1:00:57What we haven't seen so far is some of the detail behind how precisely those different bodies work together. Also, the Palestinian Authority has to reform. But what does all that mean actually in the context of Gaza? Well, the Israelis clearly expect this international stabilization force on the Board of Peace. We've heard this from the Israeli ambassador at the UN, Danny Danone. We've heard it from the Israeli prime minister as well, Benjamin Netanyahu, say very clearly the expectation is on this international force to bring about a demilitarization of Gaza, a disarming of Hamas. What we've heard from Hamas is that they reject the Board of Peace.

1:01:39They say it's an international guardianship. They reject that this body should then be sort of overseeing the disarming of them. They say, and we've also heard from Palestinians in Gaza, that they don't want this international force there. If they do, the last thing that they want them to be doing is disarming Hamas. They should be patrolling a ceasefire line, monitoring a ceasefire. So what's clear is that while the ceasefire is in place, there's a mechanism to make it last longer, to push it forward. The issues remain just as contentious as ever, Jake. All right, Nick Robertson, thank you so much.

1:02:14Coming up next, the newly elected governor of Virginia, the first ever woman governor of Virginia, will be here in her very first interview on The Lead ever since her big election night win. The request she made that has the current governor urging her to wait her turn. Stay with us.

1:02:33In our politics lead in eight weeks, Democrat Abigail Spanberger will be sworn in as the first ever woman governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia. But before taking office, she's already in a back and forth with Virginia's current governor, Republican Glenn Youngkin. They are sparring over who should get a say in naming the next president of the University of Virginia. A little background here. Last June, then UVA President James Ryan abruptly resigned amid pressure from the Trump administration to dismantle the university's DEI, or diversity, equity and inclusion programs, amidst the threat of a cutoff in federal funding.

1:03:10Last week, Ryan wrote a 12-page letter to the faculty Senate calling his ouster a hostage situation and revealing that a Justice Department official threatened that if he didn't resign, the Trump administration would, quote, bleed UVA white. Governor-elect Spanberger asked the University Board of Visitors to stop searching for a new president until she takes office in January, prompting Governor Youngkin to complain that there's only one governor at a time, and he ordered the board to keep searching. Governor-elect Spanberger, who is a UVA grad, we should note, joins us now. Governor-elect, first of all, congratulations on your election night victory.

1:03:45What is your understanding of where the search for a new UVA president stands right now? And why did you make this request to be involved? So importantly, and I thank you for having me on. Importantly, this matters to people across Virginia because UVA is one of our flagship universities. universities, we have extraordinary public universities here in the Commonwealth and the Board of Visitors that make decisions for our public universities, UVA included, those members are appointed by the governor and confirmed by our General Assembly. And while we have seen attacks on academic freedom, attacks on the choices that University of Virginia and other universities can make, what we haven't seen is a governor, and our current governor, stand up for UVA, stand up for academic freedom, and stand up for a process.

1:04:36Currently, our board of visitors is short five members, and it is not statutorily compliant, meaning it does not have the requisite number of not just individuals, but meeting certain factors, Virginia residents, UVA grads, et cetera. And so any decision that this board might make moving forward could be called into question. So my letter to the board was simply a request that they put a pause on their search process until I have taken office, not because I deserve to weigh in, that's not the case, but because I will quickly appoint five people, the General Assembly will quickly confirm them, and then they will have a board at full complement that is statutory compliant that can move forward in the best interests of the University of Virginia on its search process as they look for a new president.

1:05:29How has this controversy affected your relationship with Governor Youngkin as you go forward with this transition process between gubernatorial ships? Well, I think, you know, I have been very critical of the way that he has not defended academic freedom and has not defended the University of Virginia, George Mason University, another Virginia public university that has received efforts from the Department of Justice to kind of direct and dictate its choices. And so, you know, frankly speaking, he knows where I stand on this issue, which is that a governor should be standing up for our universities.

1:06:06Not only are they valuable in that they recruit students and professors here to the Commonwealth, but they're major drivers of our economy. University of Virginia was founded by Thomas Jefferson. We call it Mr. Jefferson's University. An attack on UVA is, frankly, an attack on so much that makes up Virginia and the strength of our economy. And so while we have been working together on the transition, I think there should be no surprises for the current governor that I feel very strongly that not only should we have a governor who stands up for our academic freedoms and our institutions, but one that also allows for a non-political board of visitors to do right by the university and not do the governor's or the federal government's bidding.

1:06:49I understand what you're saying about academic freedom, but what do you make of the argument that colleges and universities can be more receptive to criticism, that they have, in many cases, become hotbeds of progressive ideology that have resulted in incidents of anti-Semitism, incidents where conservatives don't feel like they can even just speak about their beliefs. What do you make of that argument when it comes to academic freedom and UVA? Well, I think you make an important point, which is that, you know, universities and academic freedom doesn't necessarily mean that we should pivot one way or another.

1:07:35Dissent and discourse on a university campus is an important part of learning and development, but it also needs to occur within certain parameters where all students on campus feel safe. And those things should not be, and they need not be, mutually exclusive or in inherent conflict. But unfortunately, what we have seen, and you mentioned former President Ryan's letter, he laid out very clearly in his letter the efforts that the University of Virginia had undertaken to ensure that they were meeting the requirements of this current presidential administration, and that they had taken those steps while also endeavoring to uplift a community where students from across the Commonwealth, rural communities, agricultural communities, urban communities, suburban communities, people of all different backgrounds and experience sets can come and prosper and learn and debate and foster that type of discourse that, frankly, is good for society as a whole.

1:08:37And unfortunately, what we saw as it related to his ouster from the university was a mandate from the federal government and essentially a requirement that UVA fire him or ultimately that he resign. Otherwise, federal grant dollars, research funding, all of it was under threat. And so while I hear you on the first part of the question, and I think it's an important thing for us to continue to have conversations about, about how do we debate, how do we ensure all students feel safe amid that debate? You know, that shouldn't allow the Department of Justice and ultimately the Trump administration to mandate what happens on college campuses.

1:09:17Virginia Governor-elect Abigail Spanberger, I have a lot of other questions about other topics, the Democratic Party and affordability and this and that, but we are out of time. I know you wanted to talk about this breaking UVA story, please come back, okay? Can I get a gubernatorial promise from you that you will come back soon? I would love to come back and talk about all the things that we are doing to focus on affordability here in the Commonwealth of Virginia as we prepare for swearing income January. We're going to be ready to move and address the issues that have been pervasive in every corner of our Commonwealth, issues that are top of mind for the people that I I look forward to serving.

1:09:56All right. Thanks, Governor-elect. Congratulations again. Breaking news, new images from North Carolina's capital city of Raleigh. Protesters pushing back on the major immigration operation going down in that area. What Congress thinks of these crackdowns going down in various U.S. cities? I'm going to ask a Republican lawmaker next.

1:10:22We have breaking news on our national lead. Right now you're looking at live pictures of downtown Raleigh, North Carolina. Protesters there are marching against the Trump administration's crackdown on illegal immigration. This is the latest major city expected to see an increase in immigration enforcement. Earlier today, about 160 miles west of Raleigh, high school students in the Charlotte, North Carolina area staged a walkout and protest against these recent ICE raids. This, as the Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools says, more than 30 ,000 students, About 20 percent of the students enrolled in the district were absent on Monday amid the illegal immigration crackdown.

1:10:58Joining us to discuss is Republican Congresswoman Maria Salazar of Florida. Congresswoman, so we've seen this increase of federal immigration enforcement across major cities for months now. Obviously, nobody has any issues with violent criminals being taken off the streets, but we've seen several instances of ICE agents using aggressive tactics to arrest people who don't appear to be violent criminals at all. They're undocumented, but they don't appear to be violent in any way. There's been instances of U.S. citizens being swept up and detained, some for days. What are your views of the way the Trump administration is going about handling illegal immigration?

1:11:32Well, thank you for the opportunity. And talking about Charlotte, 200 people in 48 hours were arrested. 70 percent of them did not have a criminal record, according to DHS. That's a mistake. And that is why I just wrote this book called The Dignity, Not Citizenship. This is the name of the legislation that I just introduced. And basically what it says is the ICE should be concentrating on the bad hombres. Exactly what President Trump said, that he wanted to do a mass deportation, the most important in the history of the country. And we agree, kick out the ones who are bad hombres, the ones who have criminal record, the murderers and the rapists.

1:12:09But do not touch the lady who has been here for 10, 20 years contributing to the economy. Those who have been picking up the jalapeno peppers or the dairies or the greenhouses or the slaughterhouses, those people who are illegal and they broke the law, it's true. But we should give them the dignity status. No citizenship, no amnesty. Just let them stay and help with the economy. And that is why those people are protesting. They're not defending the Trenderagua. They're defending those who have been here contributing and do not have a criminal record. So we've got to change directions. The White House needs to send the signal to ICE.

1:12:43ICE is just doing their job. I'm not criticizing ICE. I'm telling the president, Mr. President, you know, you are a construction and a hospitality guy. You know, we need those hands. And I'm sure that is going to happen very soon. So let's talk about something else President Trump has been talking about when it comes to immigration. He also supports H-1B visas. Those are special visas that allow immigrants to come into the United States and work temporarily in specialty jobs. I want you to take a listen to how President Trump defended H-1B visas in last week's interview on Fox. Yes. If you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.

1:13:28also do have to bring in talent when we have plenty of talented people here no you don't we don't have talented people no you don't have you don't have certain talents and you have to people have to learn what was your response to that oh that i'm on the same page with the president that we do have talent but we have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of jobs that need to be filled and if those jobs are high specialty or what we have ai right now and we need to fill those jobs and we need Silicon Valley, we're not competing against the average American worker. We're talking about more hands, more economy.

1:14:04And he's absolutely correct. It's just that this country, and that's why I wrote this book, and I thank you very much for allowing me to show it to your audience, dignity, not amnesty, and not citizenship. We have an immigration problem that has been with us more than the Internet. Internet was created, and we still do not have, for the last 40 years, an immigration reform. And this is the time to do it because President Trump is the only guy who's going to dare to do it. Because, as you know, for 40 years, Democrats and Republican presidents have not dared to tackle it. This is the moment and with what's happening right now, even more so.

1:14:48So we need we need hands and we need talent local and from abroad. Before you go, I want to ask you a question for those people who don't know. You're a journal, a former journalist. You have interviewed past presidents. You interviewed Bill Clinton, George W. Bush. I want I was really curious in your response when I saw this clip of President Trump snapping at a female reporter asking questions about Epstein. This happened a few days ago on Air Force One before President Trump reversed his stance on releasing the Epstein files. Take a look.

1:15:28I know it's loud because of Air Force One, but what the reporter says, if there's nothing incriminating in the file, sir, why not take? And he says, quiet, piggy. What was your response? Hey, you know, President Trump is a very picturesque and difficult and different type of politician. But I always say that I look at his policies and not at his personality. No one is perfect. Those who are perfect are in heaven. That's why I am saying to him, you, because you have that personality and you have that fortitude and you dare to do things that other people do not dare to do. You are the guy who needs to fix immigration for this country for the benefit of the average American worker and for the economy.

1:16:10If immigration is not fixed by him, it will take another 40 years for a Democrat, for a Republican to dare to do it. So that's why it's exactly just gave me the perfect platform to platform to say to him, you are the guy. You dare to do things that others don't dare to fix immigration. Republican Congresswoman Maria Salazar of Florida, thank you so much. Appreciate it. I appreciate it. you. Let's go back to the White House. We're standing by to see the president and first lady greet Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Presumably he has washed the blood off his hands, whom they are hosting for a lavish dinner.

1:16:43The pomp and circumstance that we're seeing, along with the warmth and the praise and the denial of Saudi Arabia's actual record, is something more typical of a visit from an allied Western democracy instead of a monarchy with a checkered human rights record. The visit to the U.S. marks the very first for MBS since the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who worked for The Washington Post seven years ago. Earlier today, President Trump even defended the crown prince when he was pressed about his murder. As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial.

1:17:19A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen. But he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like By all means, don't embarrass the guest. There is President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump at this dinner honoring MBS. Just to remind everybody, Trump's own CIA said that MBS ordered the murder and dismemberment of a Washington Post journalist. And the first couple is right there getting ready to honor MBS for coming to the United States. My panel joins me now as we watch these images.

1:17:59is former Democratic Congressman Max Rose, the president staunchly defending MBS. We should know we did see President Biden fist bump the crown prince when he was in office. That was scandalous at the time, but nothing like this. What's your reaction? You know, at this point, Donald Trump is acting like an 80 year old lame duck president. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? And we're seeing a connective tissue here over how he's acted today. The way he called, had this crazy outburst to one journalist calling her piggy, reacted to another journalist in the Oval Office defending MBS over perhaps all of the American people, certainly in regards to our values, and then leading from behind at the very best on the Epstein files.

1:18:48This is a man at this point, the only rational reason for why he's acting this way in the end is due to his family's business. They have several deals that are pending in Saudi Arabia, and that appears to be his priority because I can't understand any other rational justification for how he's operating. What do you think, Jesse? I think that Trump never looks weaker than when he's groveling and sitting across from an authoritarian that he really envies, whether it's Putin or Kim Jong-un or MBS. And to be that cowardly and say, we don't want to embarrass him, when you could easily say the thing that is a normal thing to say, which is condemn the killing of Khashoggi, he just looks weak.

1:19:36He looks like a very useful idiot being used, parroting the propaganda of MBS. In fact, making Khashoggi to blame in all of this. A lot of people didn't like him. Very controversial. Right. I mean, that's such a weak sauce argument. And he looks very small in that moment. And I just also want to say kudos to Mary Bruce of ABC. Yeah, she's great. Who asked really courageous and important questions. And then the answers from both MBS and Trump were really appalling and cowardly. So Trump also announced that they're discussing military and business deals. Take a listen. You've agreed to invest$600 billion into the United States.

1:20:20And because he's my friend, he might make it a trillion, but I'm going to have to work on him. I mean, there is a lot of talk. President Trump talks about this all the time. $17 trillion, $18 trillion coming to the United States. Our fact checker, Daniel Dale, has looked into it, asked for evidence of it. And needless to say, the actual facts don't line up with the claims. Sure. Even when the White House releases a fact sheet, one that presumably is researched, it doesn't match the president's claims. And you can see here this wanton disregard for the actual way these things work. He's at$600 billion one day, you know, a trillion.

1:21:00This is how people are negotiating the price of a hot dog in Times Square, not how they're doing any type of sophisticated business deal. Again, I bring this back to his focus on the Trump family business right now. This is a man soon with three years left in office, no hope for running for re-election. And on top of that, he is losing his base before our very eyes. Just your last interview, Maria Salazar openly turned against him. On immigration, she did. On immigration, he's in the wrong. Lauren Boebert, Nancy Mace turning against him on Epstein. Marjorie Taylor Greene, acting like a Democrat, he's lost the MAGA base, so he's focusing back on what he's always had, which is his own business.

1:21:45On the question of Marjorie Taylor Greene and the Epstein files, which is where they really turned, I should note a senior White House official just texted me saying that the Epstein bill will be signed whenever it gets to the White House. I want you to take a listen to what Marjorie Taylor Greene said when asked earlier if she trusts that President Trump will sign the bill. watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart and the only thing that will speak to the powerful courageous women behind me is when action is actually taken to release these files and the American people won't tolerate any other bullshit what do you think I mean, first of all, you know, we're told President Trump is going to sign it, but she didn't sound like she was confident about that.

1:22:40MAGA's mad and she, you know, she's hearing from MAGA. Maybe Trump is tuning the MAGA influencers out and tuning the base out, but she is hearing from MAGA back at home, just as every House Republican is. And MAGA's mad. MAGA feels lied to. Not just on this, on America First issues and policies, too, on the economy. MAGA's mad. And she is right to distrust Donald Trump. I'm worried that Donald Trump behind the scenes is trying, you know, working on these files to try to make them look less bad in these final moments. But they all see the writing on the wall. They have to do this. There is no, you know, delaying this anymore if they want to keep the MAGA base intact in time for midterms.

1:23:26All right. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. why rapper Nicki Minaj felt compelled to take the mic today at the United Nations.

1:23:38Our last lead start and our pop culture lead, President Trump is teaming up with Nicki Minaj. The rapper spoke alongside U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Mike Waltz today at the UN about the persecution of Christians in Nigeria. I stand here as a proud New Yorker with a deep sense of gratitude that we live in a country where we can freely and safely worship God regardless of one's creed, background, or politics. No group should ever be persecuted for practicing their religion. Human rights experts say that while many Christians in Nigeria have been victims of tremendous violence by radicals, still they also say Muslims have also been targeted and the situation is more complex than the Trump administration has described.

1:24:29However, horrific. Only four days left on the celebrity auction I'm hosting with George Clooney and Winona Judge. All of the proceeds go to build specially adapted custom homes mortgage free for wounded veterans. There are a slew of event tickets up for bid. Samantha Bee's How to Survive Menopause Tour, the adapted stage play High Noon in London, plus a backstage meet and greet with Billy Crudup, the New York premiere of the movie The Housemaid, Jerry Seinfeld's 2026 tour and a meet and greet with Jerry Seinfeld, tickets to see Jimmy Kimmel live, or The Late Show with Seth Meyers, or The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, or The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, or Real Time with Bill Maher.

1:25:05All of those events, VIP with meet and greets. There's also NFL tickets to see the Eagles against the Commanders in January. Check out more than 100 items to bid on. The auction closes this Friday. Find more at ebay.com slash HFOT. That's ebay.com slash HFOT, homes for our troops. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, threads, Blue Sky Accent on the TikTok at Jake Tapper. You can follow the show on Accent, Instagram at The Lead, CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can watch the show on the CNN streaming app. Aaron Burnett Out Front starts right now.

1:25:41Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. You'll hear deeply moving and honest discussions with people who have faced and are living with life-altering losses. My guest is writer, poet Megan Fowley, who is married to the poet Andrea Gibson. Andrea died last summer after a years-long battle with cancer. Is grief different than you thought it would be? Yes, it is. I don't think that I thought that I would be able to have as much joy as I've had. I guess if I wasn't able to find joy and laughter now, I would have missed the point of Andra's messaging.

1:26:25Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.