Trump: Charlie Kirk Is Dead

28:29What are you hearing from your friends and your colleagues, people who know and follow Charlie Kirk right now. Tell us tell us what people are going through. Yeah, you know, Jake, it's a tragedy for America, not just for the Republican Party or for for MAGA, Jake, as you as you know, I met Charlie back in the 2016 during the 2016 race and used to joke with him. You know, Charlie's he's an Eagle Scout. He's all American kind of boy. Wanted to go to West Point. I went to West Point, so he and I joke about that. But he was doing it the right way, Jake. You heard Brian Seltzer talk about, he didn't agree with Brian.

29:09You knew Brian wouldn't agree with him, but he offered to sit down and talk with him, to debate him on the merits. He'd put a card table out on college campuses and say, prove me wrong. Talk to me about this. This was a guy who was trying to change hearts and minds. He was a happy warrior out there doing this. And he was very powerful. And so to see his young life snatched away, it's heartbreaking, Jake. The guy is 31 years old. He was a father. He's got young kids. He was a husband to his wife, Erica, now who's a widow. Those kids, as you alluded to, Jake, they don't have a father now because of someone who didn't like his political standpoint, didn't like his views.

29:49I mean, it's heartbreaking. It's disgusting. And everybody, I think, in America should take a step back. And really, whether you like Charlie Kirk, you don't, whether you like the president or you're not, you got to say, this has got to stop. This can't happen. Here's a guy who's going about it the right way. And he's stricken down in a very graphic manner. It's just disgusting. It's heartbreaking. And you got to just you got to pray for his family. They can get through this somehow. A lot of Democratic officials have been quick to share their condemnation of the shooting and calling for an end to political violence and saying that there's no justification for any of this.

30:29But here we are, another instance of politically motivated attacks in our country. You're from western Pennsylvania, where that attempted assassination on President Trump took place last year. We've also seen, obviously, the assassinations of Democrats in Minnesota. We've seen the shooting at the Catholic Church. Steve Scalise almost assassinated Gabby Giffords. I mean, too many people. If you disagree with someone's political view, you don't kill them. You don't have the right to take them down. You saw Gavin Newsom and Charlie sat down earlier this year. You think those two agree on anything?

31:11Nothing. But they had a civil discourse. They're doing it the right way. David, stand by. I want to bring in a witness to the shooting, Dallin Smith. Dallin, I understand you're a former student at Utah Valley University where this apparent assassination happened. You were there with your sister. Tell us what was the atmosphere like before the shot rang out? Yeah, the atmosphere was buzzing. I wasn't expecting that many people to be there. You know, I wanted to go and I wanted to be there a little bit earlier to ask Charlie a question. I wanted to have a little bit of a debate with him. But when I got there, there was thousands of people there, more than I expected.

31:48And it was buzzing. There was a lot of energy. A lot of people were smiling, calling on the phones, taking videos. Everyone seemed to be having a good time. Where were you standing? How far were you from him? And could you make out at all the direction of where the shot may have been fired from? The direction of shot no um i wasn't in the crowd at least on the ground there was a walkway above charlie's kind of tent where normally you know on a normal day of campus you can walk back and forth between the two buildings but they had it taped off and up to the degree of where it was taped off i was on the right side i guess the left side of his tent um and i was overlooking the entire crowd um and it was it was uh i could see basically everything i couldn't necessarily see charlie because his His tent is kind of, you know, blocked off from all corners except for the front.

32:38But, yeah, I could see everything. I couldn't tell the direction the shot was made out of, unfortunately. How are you and your sister doing? This is a horrible thing to witness. Yeah, it was definitely a little bit surreal. You know, it was we heard two pops and we ran and a lot of people ran with us. When I was standing by the door kind of overseeing what was happening, some people were standing there still taking videos. So I went back out to look over the railing to see like maybe someone just did some firecrackers, something like that. But more and more people were screaming, crying, dispersing super quickly from the scene.

33:14More and more people were headed Charlie's way. And yeah, just pure craziness. And then after getting back into the building, just tons of people flooding to go outside, get away from the scene. A lot of tears, a lot of phone calls. Me and my sister, we're good, for sure. We're good. But, you know, obviously prayers out for Charlie's family and anyone else who's a little bit shooken up. But, yeah, it was definitely scary in the moment for sure. Dolan, what kind of a law enforcement or security presence did you see when you came there and after you heard the pops? Was there a big security presence or what?

33:50I would say it was fairly mild for the amount of people that were there. I don't know if they expected that many people. I don't know. It seemed like a little bit more than some of the other events that you can kind of watch. When I was, you know, coming through the doors of the campus, I didn't see any security. That wasn't really my impression of what was going on. I didn't see many security. I saw, you know, maybe. Oh, we just lost Dolan Smith. Well, thank you to Dolan. And we're thinking about him and all the witnesses to this horrific event. The shooting has brought on a swarm of reaction from elected leaders, pleading to anyone who will listen that violence, specifically political violence, is never acceptable.

34:27We're going to bring you some of that reaction. Next, we're going to squeeze in a very quick break. We'll be right back.

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35:39And we're back with our breaking news, the deadly shooting of conservative commentator and Trump ally Charlie Kirk at the age of 31. the apparent assassination happened in the middle of a live event at a college campus in Utah. And obviously, Charlie Kirk had a lot of fans on Capitol Hill among the Republicans who control Capitol Hill. Let's go straight to CNN's Manu Raju there. And Manu, tell us what you're hearing. Yeah, a lot of members absolutely horrified and not just Republicans, Democrats alike because of just the increasing amount of political violence that we are seeing here in this country from the time of the shooting of Gabby Giffords, the assassination attempts of President Trump, to the shootings for Minnesota lawmakers that happened earlier this summer, and so many other events in between, and now this.

36:32So you're hearing a lot of calls from both sides of the aisle to increase security, to do more to bolster security for members of Congress, and also to do more to tamp down on the harsh political rhetoric that has really defined this era of politics. I caught up with a lot of the Republicans, too. A lot of the Republicans who are close to Charlie Kirk, who knew him very, very well, particularly the members of the more conservative flank of the House GOP and Senate GOP. And they're the ones who particularly hurt perhaps the most because some of them had a very personal relationship with Charlie Kirk and have worked with them very closely over the years.

37:13And I also caught up with Senator John Curtis, who represents Utah. And this, as he told me, happened in his backyard, which he said is a very painful moment for not just him, but for his community as well. This is my backyard. This is very, very personal because of that. Yeah, it really is escalating. We know that. I think it's time for all of us to reevaluate how we're talking about issues. I think that if we're honest, we're having conversations within families that are too heated. We're having conversations among friends that are too heated. And then that obviously escalates as it gets to a broader conversation.

37:51It's not healthy. It's not who we are. When I was in college, you used to be able to walk in those doors and just walk right into the Capitol. And I didn't have any of the security. Obviously, airports were the same. And the more we just have this, like, sickness in society, the more we have to clamp down. The more you have to have security barriers and lockdown our society because people are just sick. And also, just after that moment, the Speaker of the House tried to ask for a moment of silence, ultimately did get a moment of silence. But before that, there was a back and forth that occurred between Democrats and Republicans.

38:25As one congresswoman that tried to seek for, ask for a prayer for Charlie Kirk and his family. that led us some back and forth about the political violence that we are seeing in this country, just showing just the raw emotion and the tension that is happening right now, particularly in the aftermath of all this as members grapple with this, particularly ones who are very close to Charlie Cork. He had a lot of allies in the GOP side, particularly in the House over the years, and they're feeling this very personally. He and Speaker Johnson, Mike Johnson of Louisiana, very close friends. Manu Raju, thanks so much.

39:00just in a law enforcement official confirmed to CNN that there remains an active manhunt for the person responsible for this apparent assassination. And the initial search, they say, did not recover any sort of firearm. Much more as we cover this story. Stay with us.

39:20And we're back with the breaking news and our politics lead. Conservative activist Charlie Kirk shot and killed while speaking at an event in Utah. Let's get to CNN's Brian Todd to give us a better sense of the scene where this apparent assassination took place. Brian? Right, Jake. Here's what we know. This shooting occurred at Utah Valley University. It is in Orem, Utah. We'll kind of zoom in with a map here. It's about 40 miles southeast of Salt Lake City, about an hour's drive. You see it's right next to the Utah Lake there. And here is a diagram of the campus. Now, according to university officials, this was the site of the shooting.

39:55This is where Charlie Kirk was at the time of the shooting. University officials have said that the shots were fired from a building on campus. Again, you can see there are several buildings here, which conceivably could be the building. It is unclear right now at this moment which of these buildings it might have been, but you see the names of them, the Sorenson Center, the Low C Center, Woodbury Building, and the Fugle Gateway Building there. But again, this was the site of the shooting. University officials saying that the shots were fired from a building there. and let's take a look at some of the surroundings in the town of Orem, Utah, where this occurred.

40:29What we can tell you also is that according to law enforcement sources, reporting from John Miller and Holmes Libran from CNN, according to law enforcement sources, no gun has been recovered as of yet, and the suspect is still at large. Now, here are the surroundings of Utah Valley University. You have Utah Lake right here. You've got mountains here. And again, I'm pointing this out because if there's going to be a manhunter underway, which there clearly must be right now, these are some of the surroundings that law enforcement officials will have to navigate, Jake. But again, why don't we just go ahead and take a look at the campus again, just to kind of illustrate for our viewers where Charlie Kirk was.

41:06He was here. It seemingly looks like an amphitheater here. And he was sort of this. And by the way, this was a packed scene. A large, large audience was here. And he was here when he was shot. There were security people seen on video jumping over fences and running toward him, seemingly what looked like security detail. We do know that he was traveling with a security detail there at the campus, and some of them were seen jumping bicycle fences running toward him in the moments after the shooting. Jake. All right, Brian, thanks so much. My panel's here, and we should note the influence of this young man, Charlie Kirk.

41:40President Trump credited him with helping him swing voters towards Trump in this past election. Take a listen. I won the young people by 37 percent. No Republicans ever won. And I won by 37 percent. And Charlie Kirk will tell you TikTok helped. But Charlie Kirk helped also. Charlie is fantastic. I mean, this guy, don't believe this stuff when you hear the kids are liberal. They're not liberal. Maybe they used to be, but they're not anymore. Okay. It's not true that Trump won young people by 37%, but it is true that they swung towards Trump. And it is true that Trump won young men. And Charlie Kirk had a lot to do with that.

42:26Absolutely. And you and I talk about our boys every so often. The first text I got today was from my 16 year old son that, I mean, we don't talk a lot of politics at home. He learns his politics from him, from Charlie Kirk. And I think that that's an amazing movement, whether you believe in what he believes in or not. The fact that he's connecting with not just college students, but 16-year-old hockey-playing boys, you know, and he's obviously very religious, which is something that you don't really wear on your sleeve a lot as a young child sometimes. So, listen, the whole thing is a horrible situation, and no matter what side of the aisle you are on, and you were saying before we started, just the anxiety of it all because of just what we've become.

43:09Absolutely. I would just I mean, I think I can't say it enough that my heart goes out and prayers go out to him, his wife. And he's got very two young, very chill. I mean, two young children. And and this is just tragic. But, you know, where we are right now is, you know, what we're seeing is a dangerous escalation of violence where political debate is met with guns rather than decent conversations. And I think that's problematic for all of us. And what I would love to see in this moment is what we've really not seen ever as these escalations have started to happen, which is leaders from both sides of the political aisle coming together, disavowing this and saying that we as a nation should be above this.

43:53We're better than this. This is not how we resolve our issues with guns. We resolve our issues with debate and voting and the ballot box rather than taking taking up arms to hurt each other. So that's what I would love to see in this moment. But also, I would say, in addition to that, I think this moment also demands that leaders no longer pour gasoline on the fire, that they are modeling for young people, to your point, because I have a friend that's at a high school right now. And she said it's all that's all the talk from among the young kids, but starting to model this decent behavior for young people.

44:26And so those are the two things I would love to see happen in this moment. And in fact, on that note, Governor Gavin Newsom, one of the most prominent Democrats in the country, tweeted very early, the attack on Charlie Kirk is disgusting, vile and reprehensible in the United States of America. We must reject political violence in every form. When Newsom launched his podcast, I think Charlie Kirk was his first guest. And, Jeff, we should note, this year alone we've seen an arson attack on Democratic Governor Shapiro, the assassination on a Minnesota lawmaker. On and on. We don't know the motive here.

45:06We don't know if this killer was from the far left, from the far right. We have no idea. But still, this is just a dark time when it comes to political violence. It's an incredibly dark time. And in our lifetimes, we have not seen a period like this since the modern age of guns and the weapons that we have now. But I think even more than that, I was struck by a comment from a former president, Barack Obama, who sent this out just a few moments ago. He said, we don't know what motivated the person who shot and killed Charlie Kirk, but this kind of despicable violence has no place in our democracy.

45:39I am thinking of Charlie Kirk, who grew up as a high school student from Illinois. He largely rose through his political strength, through the Tea Party movement. He had very unkind words for Barack Obama, but President Obama saying that there has to be an end to political violence. So, look, this is a moment we're going to hear from President Trump, but later, we believe. It's a horrible moment in our politics. but what leaders will step forward here and will there be any change? I hope so. I think we are in a terrifying moment in our politics. As others have said, these kinds of incidents have continued to ramp up.

46:21We're also in a moment of just hyper partisanship where so much of our politics is about scoring points and winning an argument and is not so much anymore about trying to find common ground, find solutions. And I think that the the I hope that we are going to see this universally condemned. I think we are seeing leaders say this is appalling. I would hope that nobody is out there celebrating this kind of horrific. You haven't logged on. Horrific. I try not to because I find all of it to just be incredibly demoralizing. And I'm sure the conversation around this is is particularly demoralizing. It's pretty bad.

47:01And so I just, you know, I really hope that we can get back to a place in our country where we have debates with words and not with guns. Yeah, and debate ideas and not demonize opponents as subhuman evil, that sort of thing. Everyone stick around. I want to bring in CNN's Doni O'Sullivan, as well as Hadass Gold. And Doni, you've been to Turning Point USA events. You've spoken with young activists who admired Charlie Kirk. What did they have to say? Yeah, Jake, as some of your panel mentioned, I mean, what the movement Kirk built was admired on both sides of the political spectrum. And we were at one of his conferences, Turning Point USA's conference in Tampa, Florida, back in July.

47:44And here's what one young conservative told us about the importance of what Kirk had built. I'm here because I love Turning Point USA. I have a chapter where I'm from, and I just love Turning Point USA. I love everything about it. I love the energy that we bring. I love the fact that we are now becoming like, we're becoming the cool kids now. Like, for a very, very long time, especially during the Biden presidency, we were told that we aren't cool anymore. We were defeated. And now we're just, to be at an event like this is just such a celebration of what we've overcome. And, Jake, I mean, what Kirk had built was the envy of Democrats.

48:24In fact, we reported over the summer how some Democratic activists were finally trying to build an infrastructure in place to try and reach campuses and to reach young voters in the way Kirk had. So, I mean, even people who vehemently disagreed with Kirk and his political policies still talked about how impressive an organizer and a mobilizer he was for young voters. And Hadass, on that note, Turning Point events have attracted controversy and protests, including today's. Tell us about that. Yes, I mean, Turning Point USA has chapters across the nation and they would also have, you know, these big events that would often invite sometimes controversial figures who were making big waves in the news.

49:07And these events would often attract protests. Sometimes these would get very tense and sometimes they would actually get violent. In fact, just earlier this year in April at UC Davis, violence erupted when protesters started assaulting Turning Point activists, tearing down their equipment. At least two people during that event reported being assaulted in 2023 in San Francisco. San Francisco swimmer Riley Gaines, who is speaking at a Turning Point USA event about transgender athletes. She says that she was accosted by protesters. She said she had to be barricaded in a room for several hours. And then in 2019, a man actually ended up facing felony charges for assaulting one of their activists for the group at UC Berkeley who was trying to recruit students.

49:46And today's event, actually, there was a petition online trying to get the university to cancel the event. Now, that petition had less than a thousand signatures, but they said Kirk's presence and the messages he delivers stand in contrast to the values of the university. And actually, a petition was also launched for a similar event that Charlie Kirk was supposed to be speaking at also at a Utah university on September 30th. And that event or that petition had more than 6 ,500 signatures on it. Charlie Kirk actually even tweeted about these protests, about these petitions, posting online what's going on in Utah, along with screenshots of some of the headlines about the controversy about these events.

50:22And Doni, within minutes of the shooting, the video of him being murdered in its graphic, horrifying detail was not only on social media, it was amplified. How does that happen? Who controls the spread? Why does it feel like these platforms are constantly showing us the worst of us? Yeah, I mean, Jake, that is the nature of what we're seeing in any really violent breaking news event right now. And of course, obviously, the guardrails on a platform, particularly like X, have been taken off. I mean, and deliberately so by somebody, by Elon Musk, you know, who is pushing this sort of free speech, unfiltered agenda.

51:07So, you know, for many of users on those platforms, they say that is what they want to see. I just want to mention, though, to Hadassah's point about petitions and things like that for not bringing Kirk onto campuses. I will say for as crude and as crass and sometimes as heated as these debates often would get, and Kirk was recently featured on South Park, such was his influence in this, was that at least there was these debates happening on campuses. And certainly the Democrats I spoke to who showed up at these events, they wanted to have that dialogue. They wanted to not just fight online, but actually argue their points back and forth on campus in person.

51:50And that's what Kirk allowed them to do. That's right. I mean, that was one of the things about his events is that he embraced. He didn't just allow questions that were challenging his point of view. He embraced them. He wanted to do that. And whatever people thought about his ideas, he was in the he was in the I don't want to use the word battle place because I don't want to use a violent word, but it was the battle place of ideas. It was just about dialogue and discussion. And again, people can disagree. But what happened to him? Just absolutely horrifying. Donio Sullivan and Hadass Gold. Thanks for joining us.

52:24This is CNN Breaking News. And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. our major breaking news tonight. We're expecting an update from law enforcement officials in Utah at any minute after Charlie Kirk. He was 31 years old. There he is in a picture with his widow, Erica, and his two young kids. He was a Trump ally. He was a very influential, conservative activist, especially with young people, founder of Turning Point USA at the age of 18. He was killed today, shot in the neck in an apparent assassination. Only 31, leaves behind the widow, Erica, two young kids. A heartbreaking image there now in retrospect.

53:02President Trump has ordered U.S. flags lowered to half staff until Sunday evening. The shooting happened at Utah Valley University, which is a school about 40 miles south of Salt Lake City. Two law enforcement sources telling CNN that as of now, no suspect has been identified and a manhunt is underway. The video we're about to show you appears to show the moment Kirk was shot. It happened shortly after he answered a question about mass shooters in America. We want to warn viewers the video can be disturbing. We do freeze it when you hear the shot before he's hit, but the audio does keep playing, and here's that tape.

53:41Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years? Too many.

53:52I'm going to give you some credit. Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years? Counting or not counting gang violence. Great.

54:08Get down, get down, get down.

54:16CNN anchor and chief White House correspondent Caitlin Collins is here. Caitlin, this is already a dark moment in political violence in this country, and it just got darker. Charlie Kirk, obviously, hugely influential, not just with President Trump and the Trump administration. He is hugely influential with young people. And again, I'll say to folks who are watching right now, who might not be super aware of every MAGA media figure, ask your kids or your grandkids who Charlie Kirk is, because he's been talking to them, even if you're not aware of it, because he's on Instagram, he's on Snapchat, he's on TikTok.

54:56And they know who he is, even if they don't agree. Well, and anyone who has covered Donald Trump also knows Charlie Kirk, because obviously the entire time Donald Trump has been in the political arena, Charlie Kirk has been there and has been obviously a massive supporter of his. And I used to work in conservative media. Charlie Kirk obviously started Turning Point USA when he was 18 years old. I mean, he has kind of been in this space for over a decade now, even though he was just 31 years old when he was killed. And I'll just say, I was talking to people at the White House today and people in the conservative world.

55:27I mean, they're deeply, deeply shaken by this and just really can't believe what has happened here. And just the fact that, you know, this is what Charlie Kirk was known for, that he would go and debate. And yes, he had strong opinions and people disagreed with him vehemently. But he would go and have these arguments with people who did disagree with him, as he was doing in that moment when he was assassinated this afternoon. And at the White House, just to kind of underline his significance, I mean, he had he was at the president's inauguration. He played a huge role in the 2024 election in turning out the conservative youth vote for President Trump.

56:04Turning Point USA has hundreds of chapters on on colleges, college campuses. And the president himself has credited him with helping secure his victory in 2024 for young voters. And so, I mean, it's just an incredibly dark day for everyone, not just for this White House, but they're really feeling it right now and just devastated by his loss. Yeah, and I got to believe that, look, I mean, one of the things about covering the West Wing, covering any West Wing, is that so many of the staffers are young. And not the senior officials, but, you know, the deputies and the people in their late 20s, early 30s.

56:44And Charlie was a contemporary and a leader, 31 years old. He was a friend to a lot of these people. Yeah, they knew him. They loved him, I'm sure, in lots of cases. And, you know, I reached out to somebody in Manga World today, and immediately they started talking about praying for Erica, his widow, and the two kids. Because, again, it's so easy in this world. Everybody just demonizes everybody else. And, look, Charlie was in the battle. He was in the political rough and tumble, too. But these are human beings. And, you know, they don't eat, breathe and sleep politics. I mean, Charlie had a wife and Charlie had two little kids.

57:35And again, you could disagree with every word that Charlie Kirk ever said and still think those kids deserve to have a dad. and I don't know where we've come in this country that this kind of thing is becoming so commonplace. And I think that moment, I mean, this is a White House and a political team that's around Trump that obviously they prize loyalty and the people who are in his circle have been in his circle for a while that just went through an attempted assassination of the president last year. Two, really? Obviously with what happened at Mar-a-Lago subsequently. And so just for this day and this moment to have happened to them.

58:15I think you make a good point, though, about him being a human. And a lot of them do know his wife and his children and his family. I mean, this is someone who I remember when I was down in Mar-a-Lago covering the transition after Trump won the election, Charlie Kirk, who lives in Arizona with his family, had basically relocated there because he was helping staff the administration and making sure it was people who were loyal to Trump and his agenda that were working there. And I believe he took his wife and his kids with him and was often seen at Mar-a-Lago. And so, you know, he's not just some figure that, you know, was kind of a distant political figure on the right.

58:45He was in their everyday lives and probably knew half the cabinet, if not more of them. And so I think that's kind of the moment that they're having. I was just listening to Steve Bannon's radio show, and he was talking about how irreplaceable he is in the movement in terms of what he did by focusing on the youth vote in a way that they did not have. And he was worried about the youth vote, you know, going to the left, and he wanted to step in and change that. But as a person, yeah, they're deeply shaken by this and this act of horrific political violence. And one of the other things that I think is important about Charlie Kirk is he was the one who really embraced J.D.

59:24Vance before the Trump family and President Trump did when J.D. Vance was a Senate candidate who was kind of a convert to MAGA, who had been very critical of Donald Trump in the past and was a convert. And Charlie Kirk met with him and then went to Don Jr. and others and said, this guy, he's on our side now. He's on our team. And J.D. Vance wasn't even the Senate nominee from Ohio there, the Republican nominee. And ultimately, you know, Charlie Kirk was instrumental in J.D. Vance's rise to vice president. And you can see, you know, how people feel about him, what you're hearing from people. I mean, Donald Trump Jr.

59:59just weighed in a few moments ago and was comparing him to a brother. And obviously the vice president has as well. Many members of the cabinet have and just their tributes to him and who he was as a person, what he did for their movement, and just the idea that this could happen and that he would go out on these campus events where he would engage with all of these people and try to share his viewpoint and his idea. And the fact that he was murdered doing that, I think, has just made so many people sick to their stomach today. It is sickening. All right, Caitlin Collins, thank you so much. And obviously, you're going to have a lot more on your show later this evening at nine o 'clock.

1:00:35Let's go now to CNN's Evan Perez. Evan, as of right now, no suspects in custody, we're told. A manhunt is underway. What is law enforcement doing? How are they handling this, given the shooting happened at a large, wide open event and appeared to have been a shot fired from more than 200 yards away. Right. That's what the university spokeswoman said earlier today, Jake, that the shot appeared to come from a campus building about 200 yards away. And, you know, you can see the perimeter of that space, the venue where this event was taking place. It appears there was no ticketing. There was no control of it.

1:01:17There was no body screening for people to get into that event. You know, it's kind of a feature of these Charlie Kirk events. It's, you know, frankly, one of the best things about politics is having these open debates where people, anyone could step up to the mic and debate Charlie Kirk. And so what you see there is really what's going to be very difficult about this manhunt. I mean, we have the ATF and the FBI there on scene, according to the Attorney General, Pam Bondi. And you can see in some of the video that we've been showing there recently of law enforcement on the rooftops. They appear to be convening around certain buildings.

1:01:54what they're doing is essentially looking for evidence, looking for things like shell casings that could pinpoint perhaps where the shooter took that shot. And some of the video that we've been showing also appears to show only one shot, you know, not multiple. Again, you could hear an echo and it's not clear. But those are the things that they're going to be analyzing to try to determine exactly who they're looking for, Jake. And so, you know, the difficulty here is that right now they have no idea what they're looking for. Yeah. And where do law enforcement even begin to determine where the shot even came from?

1:02:29I guess they can figure out the trajectory. Right. I did see something online about one news organization, I think it was the AP, saying that they thought they saw somebody on a roof. Yeah, there was some traffic. There was some radio messaging from law enforcement that, as you know, they're discussing what they're looking for. And there was somebody who was saying that. What we're told, Jake, that they do not know whether that's the person or whether that's just a description of a general idea of what someone might look like. And so one of the first things that's going to happen, Jake, is the FBI, the ATF, everybody involved here.

1:03:10I assume the U.S. Marshals is going to get involved at some point. And this is, you know, everything indicates here that this is going to become a federal law enforcement investigation. Obviously, they have to pay respect to the local law enforcement, which is leading this at this moment. Perhaps we're going to hear a little bit more about this at the press conference. But this is where federal law enforcement really can help, right? They can look to see whether there have been threats that have been made against Charlie Kirk. We know, Jake, that he was traveling with personal security. Clearly he has been the subject of some threats and so they're going to look at that to see whether there's any indicator there of anybody who might have been perhaps making threats against Charlie Kirk.

1:03:52And then of course looking at cell phone towers. They can dump out pretty much every cell phone that has connected to a cell phone tower in that vicinity to try to identify anomalies, people who may not go belong to that area or go to that university. Again, this is how they begin, essentially, trying to find a needle in a haystack in an investigation like this, where there are no obvious suspects. There's nobody who clearly was detained there and that they believe could have carried this out, Jake. All right, Evan Perez, thanks so much. And on that matter, on that subject of the FBI, let's bring in Andrew McCabe, who is the former deputy director of the FBI.

1:04:30Andy, how does the FBI begin a manhunt like this? Yeah, so Jake, with a lot of the things that you and Evan were just discussing, so the first thing is obviously trying to locate the shooting position on that site. There's a number of ways that they can do that. There's technological resources the Bureau has to take essentially 3D modeling images of the entire scene and then overlay the likely trajectory of the projectile. And that can at least narrow the scope of the possible shooting positions from that from the buildings referred to as the low C center. So that's that is one way to do it. What you're also seeing on the video is the more kind of conventional way to do it.

1:05:15Those tactical teams that you see assembling around the entrances to all the buildings, not just the low C center. They're going to do a slow what they call a methodical law enforcement clearing of every one of those buildings. You're going to go in every single room and closet, any place a person can hide. They're going to look first at those spaces that are facing the amphitheater there, obviously. And part of what they're looking for, in addition to something that's clearly identifiable as the shooting scene, they're looking for potentially the shooter. We don't know at this point that the person involved isn't still hiding in one of those buildings, essentially waiting for the surge of law enforcement to pass by before they leave.

1:05:57So it could be a dangerous situation. It's also an opportunity to collect some evidence. And then away from the scene, they're doing those sorts of things that Evan mentioned. They're going to go back to Charlie's people. They're going to look at the communications that he has received, whether it's on social media or direct communications via email, things like that. And they're going to look at every single person who interacted with him in a hostile or threatening way. They're going to then look into those people to see if any of them can be placed in this general area at this time. And that could also lead to additional persons of interest and leads that could be followed out.

1:06:31It's a hard way to do this. You have to take a wide, wide aperture. And that takes time and effort. But these are things that the FBI does very well. Yeah. I mean, although he was a very public figure and he took a lot of controversial opinions and offended a lot of people. And I would think that that would be a very sizable haystack in which to search for a needle. officials are about to hold a news conference on this horrific apparent assassination. What what key information are you going to be listening for? Well, we're going to hear what you know, as much as they can tell us about the investigation that they're conducting at that site.

1:07:11Have they cleared those buildings that we've been talking about? Have they found a perch or a position that those shots may have been taken from just yet? It's also it'll be interesting to hear the kinds of questions they ask for essentially the questions they ask of the public. So likely they will make a request for anyone who has video images from the event to send those to the FBI. They'll assemble, the FBI is capable of assembling a massive staff of analysts and the right sort of technology to go through those videos in a fairly quick way to see if there are elements in there that might lead us to the identity of the shooter.

1:07:55So the questions that they ask of the public are the key indicators of where they think their investigation is weak right now. And we have seen time and time again that essentially crowdsourcing elements of an investigation like this can be very helpful. Well, let me ask you on that subject, Andy, before I let you go. How likely is it that somebody other than the shooter knows who did this? you know these are hard things to put an exact percentage on but i'll just say highly likely um when you look back over mass shooting events and school shootings and kind of similar uh tragedies like this one what we see in the aftermath is what we call leakage that there are people around the shooter or the actor who in hindsight realized that that person was showing certain signs, making statements about things, maybe arming themselves, maybe subjecting themselves to training, physical training, shooting training, things like that, that now in the aftermath raise suspicion on the parts of those friends, family members and associates.

1:09:06So I think it's likely that sort of information will start coming in. Again, I expect we'll hear them ask for those sorts of tips during the press conference. All right, Andy McCabe, thanks so much. Two law enforcement officials confirmed to CNN that investigators have not identified any suspect, and an act of manhunt is ongoing. Much more as we cover this, plus we're going to take a closer look at Charlie Kirk's vast political influence. Stay with us.

1:09:35And we're back with our breaking news. We expect a news conference to begin any minute, updating us on the shooting today in Utah in which a conservative influencer in Trump alley, Charlie Cook was killed in an apparent assassination. The founder of the conservative youth organization Turning Point USA, Kirk's power with the youth of this Republican Party, the MAGA Republican Party, cannot be underestimated. CNN's Brian Todd reports. That's a lot of people, Utah. Even in a MAGA ecosystem of fast-moving, sharp-talking media stars, Charlie Kirk stood out. We need more people in jail. We do not have enough people in prison in America.

1:10:19The 31-year-old father of two rose to fame at a young age, just 18 when he co-founded the group Turning Point USA, which builds support for conservative politics at high schools and colleges. As I travel the country and I'm doing this on college campuses, I can feel a surge. Turning Point USA now has chapters on more than 800 campuses. and on the eve of his second inauguration, President Trump credited Kirk with mobilizing the youth vote. And a man who's got an army of young people, Charlie Kirk is here. And I want to thank Charlie. Charlie is fantastic. I mean, this guy, don't believe this stuff when you hear the kids are liberal.

1:10:56They're not liberal. Maybe they used to be, but they're not anymore. A college dropout born in the suburbs of Chicago, Kirk became a millionaire from the books he wrote, Speaking Engagements, and his popular podcast, The Charlie Kirk Show. On all media platforms, he was a strong voice for conservative causes, including the Second Amendment. You don't need all these gun laws. It's OK if everybody owns guns if you don't have a bunch of third worlders coming into your nation that don't abide them and then commit a lot of crimes. He is one of the most prominent, I would say the most successful MAGA media personality of his generation.

1:11:32He's a little bit like a new era Rush Limbaugh, you know, of the digital age. But unlike someone like Rush, who hosted a radio show at his home, Kirk is out and about. He's known for doing these public events. Analysts say Kirk's propensity for being able to take on anyone in a political argument at the drop of a hat propelled him in MAGA circles. Charlie Kirk could debate endlessly. He mastered his brief. Again, obviously not everyone agreed with him. a conservative media star here, but he would debate for hours on end with people in the belief of his argument. As a result, Kirk had the ear of almost everyone in the administration, from President Trump on down.

1:12:10When he broke with the administration twice this year over the bombing of Iran and the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files, the stir in MAGA world was palpable. He later backed down from his call for more transparency in the Epstein case. I'm going to trust my friends in the administration. I'm going to trust my friends in the government to do what needs to be done, solve it, balls in their hands. In October of last year, Kirk reflected on Trump's defiant gestures right after Trump was shot in an assassination attempt that summer in Pennsylvania. They say, well, is this someone that you want your kids to grow up and to look up to?

1:12:43I say, yes, I'm going to tell my son that in the line of fire, that if you ever think as if things could ever get dark and you rise and you say, fight, fight, fight, I want my son to be like that one day. And true to form, Charlie Kirk was engaging with an audience in that last appearance in Utah, answering questions from the audience about mass shooters in the U.S. just moments before he was shot. Jake? All right, Brian Todd, thank you so much. A major update on our breaking news. FBI Director Cash Patel has just posted on X or Twitter that the suspect in the shooting death of Charlie Kirk is now in custody.

1:13:19Let's get straight to CNN's Evan Perez. Evan, What did FBI Director Patel have to say? Well, Jake, he didn't provide any detail about the suspect, but here's what he said. The subject of the horrific shooting today that took the life of Charlie Kirk is now in custody. Thank you to the local and state authorities in Utah for your partnership with the FBI. We will provide updates when able. And so clearly in the period here since we've been talking, it appears that the local authorities were able to figure out the subject that they were looking for. And they've made an arrest. Now, we don't know much more about this person.

1:14:00We don't know where they found this person. We also don't know the identity of the shooter. but that's what the FBI director is now saying on the social media. And so look, this was something that, you know, talking to federal law enforcement in the past hour, Jake, you know, we were hearing from federal law enforcement that they were getting ready essentially to launch a full manhunt to try to help local and state officials who were leading this case. And so if this person still was at large, It was absolutely something that the feds were probably going to play a big role in. And so the good news here, it appears, is that there is no longer, if what the director of the FBI is saying is what we understand it to be, that the danger to the community is no longer, right, that the person who carried this out appears to be in custody.

1:14:56And so we wait to see what this press conference, we were expecting the practice press conference any time now, Jake. Yeah, Evan Perez, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Let's go there right now because law enforcement officials are giving an update. Let's listen. I'm Will Mason, commissioner for the Utah Department of Public Safety. Today at approximately 1220 Mountain Standard Time, political influencer Charlie Kirk was shot at an event at the Utah Valley University. He was taken by private vehicle to Timponogos Hospital, where he later passed. The Utah Department of Public Safety will be co-leading this criminal investigation to find this killer, along with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

1:15:37We are working in unison with the County Sheriff's Office, the local police department, and the University Police Department, all of which have been very cooperative and fully engaged in this process. Shortly after the shooting, we did have a suspect in custody, George Zinn, but he was released from custody after we identified that he did not match the shooting suspect and was not an accurate person of interest. However, he has been booked into the county jail by Utah Valley University Police Department for obstruction of justice. We do still have an active investigation for the person of interest.

1:16:19This incident occurred with a large crowd around. There was one shot fired and one victim. While the suspect is at large, we believe this was a targeted attack towards one individual. This is a tragic moment in our state and in our country. As we heal, we encourage everyone who is struggling with news of the incident to call 988, our state mental health crisis line. In addition to that, our partners with the FBI will also be discussing other ways we can communicate through the public for tips and other information. Thank you.

1:17:00Good afternoon. On behalf of the FBI, we extend our sincerest condolences to the family and friends of Charlie Kirk. Our thoughts are also with the people who witnessed this traumatic event. We know that what you experienced was very difficult. Our thoughts are with you as well. As soon as we heard about the shooting, special agents and personnel from the Salt Lake Field Office responded immediately. We have full resources devoted to this investigation, including tactical, operational, investigative, and intelligence. To be clear, the FBI will fully support and co-lead this investigation alongside with our partners.

1:17:45We are working on setting up a digital media tip line, and as soon as it's established, we'll get that information out to everyone. I know there's a lot of questions. This is very much an active case, and this investigation is in its early stages. We are following all the leads and all the evidence. If anyone has any information, please report it to the FBI or local law enforcement. Thank you.

1:18:09On behalf of President Tubenez, who we've been communicating with, and she's on her way back right now, I say that on behalf of Utah Valley University, we are shocked and saddened by the tragic passing of Charlie Kirk. We express our sincere condolences to the Kirk family. We grieve with our students, faculty, and staff who bore witness to this unspeakable tragedy. He was invited by the student group Turning Point USA to speak on our campus. We firmly believe that UVU is a place to share ideas and to debate openly and respectfully. Any attempt to infringe on those rights has no place here. We do not condone any form of violence at UVU and seek to make our campus a safe place for all.

1:19:00Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us on this dark and tragic occasion. I want to thank our law enforcement officers who are leading this investigation, starting with Chief Long and his response here with the UVU Police Department. We're grateful for your leadership and your team. and again to the speakers that you've just heard from who are co-leading this investigation. I also want to recognize Sheriff Mike Smith, who has been an invaluable partner as this investigation moves forward. I've been in touch with President Trump, with FBI Director Kash Patel. We are completely aligned with our state and federal partners as we work through this case.

1:19:50Now, this is a dark day for our state. It's a tragic day for our nation. And I want to be very clear that this is a political assassination.

1:20:07We are celebrating 250 years of the founding of this great nation. That founding document, the Declaration of Independence. that this great experiment on which we embarked together 250 years ago, that we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights. The first one of those is life. And today, a life was taken.

1:20:40Charlie Kirk was first and foremost a husband and a dad to two young children.

1:20:53He was also very much politically involved, and that's why he was here on campus. Charlie believed in the power of free speech and debate to shape ideas and to persuade people.

1:21:15Historically, our university campuses in this nation and here in the state of Utah have been the place where truth and ideas are formulated and debated. And that's what he does. He comes on college campuses and he debates. That is foundational to the formation of our country, to our most basic constitutional rights. And when someone takes the life of a person because of their ideas or their ideals, then that very constitutional foundation is threatened. Now, we have a person of interest in custody. The investigation is ongoing. But I want to make it crystal clear right now to whoever did this, we will find you.

1:22:11We will try you. and we will hold you accountable to the furthest extent of the law. And I just want to remind people that we still have the death penalty here in the state of Utah.

1:22:34Our nation is broken. we've had political assassinations recently in Minnesota we had an attempted assassination on the governor of Pennsylvania and we had an attempted assassination on a presidential candidate and former president of the United States and now current president of the United States

1:23:05nothing I say can unite us as a country nothing I can say right now can fix what is broken nothing I can say can bring back Charlie Kirk our hearts are broken we mourn with his wife, his children, his family, his friends we mourn as a nation if anyone in the sound of my voice celebrated even a little bit at the news of this shooting. I would beg you to look in the mirror and to see if you can find a better angel in there somewhere. I don't care what his politics are. I care that he was an American.

1:23:57We desperately need our country We desperately need leaders in our country. But more than the leaders, we just need every single person in this country to think about where we are and where we want to be. To ask ourselves, is this it? Is this what 250 years has wrought on us? I pray that that's not the case. I pray that those who hated what Charlie Cook stood for will put down their social media and their pens and pray for his family. And that all of us, all of us, will try to find a way to stop hating our fellow Americans. With that, we're happy to take a few questions. The FBI director is posting that a suspect is in custody.

1:25:00I would just like clarification. Do you or do you not have a suspected shooter in custody? We have a person of interest in custody that is being interviewed right now. That is not George Zinn. That is not George Zinn. That is correct. Are you still looking for another shooter or anybody else related to this? Yes, we are actively looking for anyone and everyone who has any possible information. relating to the shooting. Can you tell us details about the suspect being taken into custody? Where? How long ago? We cannot at this point. But we will get you that information when we can. Is there believed to be a second individual involved in the shooting?

1:25:43At this point, there is no information that would lead us to believe that there is a second person involved. Can you guys tell us a possible shooting?

1:25:56Do you want to talk about what we know there? Yeah. The only information we have on the suspect, the possible shooter, is taken from closed-circuit TV here on campus. We do have that. We're analyzing it. But it is security camera footage, so you can kind of guess what the quality of that is. but we do know dressed in all dark clothing, but we don't have a much better description other than that. Where did the shot came from? The shot came from here on campus from a location at a fair... Potentially from a roof, yes. A longer distance shot from a roof. So to clarify, with the security camera footage you have and the person interested in custody, does that match up?

1:26:43That's what we're trying to decipher right now. Did FBI or DHS have anything of a threat for you this morning? I can't speak to that. I'll just say that the investigation is ongoing, and as soon as we have further information, we will be sure to release it. Any invitations of foreign intelligence involvement? As of now, I can't comment on any of that. Can you talk a little bit about the security of the event itself? But who was there security-wise, and what happens on these kind of events? Shoot your phone. So my name is Jeff Long. I'm the police chief here at UVU, and I'll tell you right now, we are devastated.

1:27:17We're a small police department. We have a very large campus. We have over 40 ,000 students, and we love our students. We love our visitors, and we're devastated by what happened today. This is the police chief's nightmare. I'm very saddened for the Kirk family. I know his wife and parents found out about this. You know, obviously he's away from home. He's here in Utah. They find out by a police officer that visits their home. That's tragic. Nobody wants that. But I can tell you about our venue today. This was an open venue. This was outside. We did have six officers working that event. We had probably over 3 ,000 people that were in attendance.

1:27:58It sat down in kind of a bowl area here on the central campus. We have a waterfall area. and so he was kind of in a lower area surrounded by by buildings you know we had some plainclothes police officers that were in the crowd as well you know we trained for these things and you think you you have things covered and you know these things you know unfortunately they happen you try to get you try to get your bases covered and unfortunately today we didn't and because of that we had this tragic incident. So we did have officers there. We had Charlie Kirk's team. He has a security team that travels with him.

1:28:37And they were here with him when he was shot. Was the gun recovered? I'm sorry, see. Was the weapon recovered? At this point, I can't disclose that. When Charlie Kirk was shot, there was a question being asked about mass shooting. Was that person apprehended? And do you know who asked that question? Say the question again. I don't know if I understand what you're saying. When Charlie Kirk was shot, he was answering a question about mass shootings specifically. Was that person apprehended, and do you know who asked that question? I do not. We do not have that at this moment. What happened was he's...

1:29:13Ladies and gentlemen, we have time for just one more question, so thank you. Yeah, a question for the chief as well. Was it your team or Kirk's team or a combination of both that kind of set the security protocol for the event? So we work together. He has his team and they do this all over the country. We all know that. This is not uncommon for them. They're very comfortable on campuses. And I was coordinating with his lead security guy. And so, yeah, we were working together. Was this a shot shooter type shot? Ladies and gentlemen, those are all the questions that will be answered today. Again, thank you for covering this.

1:29:51We will be updating you as soon as we have additional information through normal channels, working with law enforcement. Again, our deepest condolences to the Kirk family and to the students who were there today. and I would just ask everyone everywhere to please pray for their family and to pray for our country. We need it now more than ever. Thank you. All right, we've been listening to a news conference from law enforcement officials and the governor of Utah about the apparent assassination or Governor Cox called it a political assassination definitively of conservative influencer Charlie Kirk.

1:30:36Joining us now to discuss what we just heard, CNN's John Miller and former Justice Department official Tom Dupree. John, let me just ask you a question that I think probably a lot of viewers are wondering, and at least one of the questioners, one of the reporters in that room was asking about. There seems to be a person of interest who is in custody, and yet law enforcement is also saying that whoever did this, we're going to find you, etc. It seems a bit contradictory. Can you explain? Sure. Let's sort through that. So there's a person of interest in custody. How did that person of interest become a person of interest?

1:31:15That was based on a review. And this is, you know, what we talked about earlier in your show about what would be the first thing that they would do in a case like this is get to the security cameras and see if you can find a suspect who is in the direction of where you think that shot came from. This person was developed based on the idea that their clothing description matched what they saw on the video from the person that they believed was the suspect. They were able to take that person into custody. And now they are a person of interest. Now, that's an interesting term. What it likely means is that they're in custody and not free to go, which means they're technically under arrest.

1:32:00What it also means is that they are gathering, as we speak, additional evidence to determine if they can gather enough to be able to charge that person. And with what? With possession of a weapon, perhaps? With something else? Or with this assassination? And right now they're being very circumspect because they're in the middle of that process. What I have been told by law enforcement sources was that immediately after this, and take a look at this footage, by the way, that we're running on the screen. There's footage of a rooftop, which we should go back to, where you can see there is this high point from a rooftop of a campus building.

1:32:44And there are police officers posted there to keep anyone from walking on it. And what else you can see is, as we zoom in, there's crime scene tape that goes from the ladder that comes up to that roof, wraps around the air duct, and goes all the way back to where those law enforcement officers are standing. Now, this isn't definitive, but that's a pretty good indicator that that is the only rooftop on the campus that has crime scene tape around it and police officers posted to make sure no one walks on that ground. That seems to be a crime scene, or what they believe is a crime scene, that they are preserving because it is believed that that is where the sniper may have found his perch, laid down, set up his rifle, and then taken that long shot that would have been across those 200 yards over lower rooftops, down in an angle into that amphitheater and to where Charlie Kirk was under that tent.

1:33:40That's as close as we can find outside of where the victim was hit by gunfire to what we think is being preserved as a crime scene there. So the video canvas would have said, okay, who do we see leaving this area of that rooftop? Right behind it, there's a walkway that goes to a parking lot. In that parking lot, there are a number of cars, which could have been where if you were a sniper who had done your pre-operational surveillance, you would have determined, here's a place I can park. Here's a rooftop I can walk to on this walkway by hopping over this fence. And here is a direct line of sight to make a very difficult shot, but a possible shot with the right weapon, the right optics, and the right talent as a shooter to be behind this murder.

1:34:27And Tom Dupree, you heard Governor Cox there say a number of things, including pleading for civility to return to this country and saying if anybody out there was celebrating in any way, take a look in the mirror and see if you can find the better angel in yourself. He also mentioned pointedly that Utah remains a death penalty state. I think there's no doubt that Utah prosecutors can seek the death penalty, they should seek the death penalty and they will seek the death penalty. This was a cold-blooded, premeditated political assassination. If a case like this, a murder like this, doesn't warrant the death penalty, what would?

1:35:12I think the other question is whether or not this is something that could be subject to federal prosecution and whether federal authorities could seek the death penalty for it. Utah has the death penalty. The federal government can also impose the death penalty, although in more limited circumstances. But you can bet that there are lawyers tonight at the United States Department of Justice who are looking to see whether what happened today would provide a basis for federal charges, which could potentially supersede any charges brought by the Utah authorities. John Miller and Tom Dupree, thanks so much to both of you.

1:35:41I want to bring in former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh, who knew Charlie Kirk very well. I'd known him for years, especially as Kirk was launching his career when he was, I guess, about 18 or 19 years old. Joe, good to see you. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. As you said on social media, Charlie was like a son to you, despite the fact that your political views changed and you found yourselves on opposite sides of the political divide. We're hearing so much about what he accomplished, what he built. Tell us about Charlie Kirk, the person. Jake, good to be with you. I met him when he was 16 years old.

1:36:22I went off to Congress and I became a father to him. I became a political mentor to him. I helped him launch, start TPUSA. He was a lovable political nerd. He was a geek. He would rather spend his weekend nights talking about various house districts instead of going out on dates. It was his life. He didn't go to college. He and I were extremely close. And then Trump happened and we went our separate ways politically. And Jake, he and I would fight repeatedly on social media, but it was just that. And even though we did that, even right up until today, he still felt like a son to me. And tell us about that side of him.

1:37:13It's obviously a big part of you as well. You are like Charlie Kirk, or maybe I should say he was like you in the sense of wanting to engage in debate. That is one of the causes of your life right now. And I know it was something that Charlie Kirk loved doing, debating people. was he able to do so in a way that when the debates were over people could leave as friends or or or tell us more. No, no. And again, Jake, I say this as someone who and as someone Charlie looked up to back in the day, I was a political asshole. So it really wasn't debates. I wanted to get in to people's faces and be provocative.

1:37:55I stopped that because I realized there's no good in that. Charlie still stayed that way. These really weren't conversations or debates. Charlie was a very divisive guy. He wanted to be provocative and get in people's faces. And look, again, a lot of people like him. He's got a right to do that. But yeah, that won't generate good feeling across the divide at all. Yeah, but obviously in the battle place of ideas, there's no place for actual firearms. And yet, Joe, as we've talked about way too many times, we are in a dark era of political violence right now. And I know that liberals like to say it's only conservatives and conservatives like to say it's only liberals.

1:38:41But just sitting here, I could name any number of events by one side against the other. It's all over the map. former congressman go ahead yeah final thought from you yeah thanks jake it is it is all over the map it's both sides and if we don't get off of this road of political hate i don't see how we keep it together all right former congressman joe walsh thank you it's always good to see you joining us now representative mike kennedy who represents the district in utah where this assassination happened a congressman that has happened in your district at a public University where thousands of young people gathered daily.

1:39:20What are you hearing from your constituents? And what is your immediate response to this horrific act of political violence? Jake, I'm sorry that we have to join each other in this circumstance. And sadly, you have to cover these sort of events on an all too regular basis. What I'm hearing from my constituents is the young people were devastated. Of course, God bless Charlie Kirk's memory, as well as his wife, now widow, Erica, and the family associated with him. And there were many thousands of young people that were there that witnessed this event. And I'll just say to you, Jake, that violence will not silence the people of the United States of America.

1:39:57Charlie Kirk, he spoke his mind and under threats, he continued to speak his mind. And I find that to be admirable. And he and I and my constituents will not be intimidated by violence. In your 2024 debate, you called for civility and thoughtfulness, arguing that Americans don't need to denigrate or name call or use foul language as we debate and as we attempt to address important issues. Talk to us about the context of escalating political rhetoric, of increased, not just balkanization, but demonization by liberals against conservatives, by conservatives against liberals. I've already seen some conservative members of Congress saying this is all the Democrats' fault.

1:40:47I've already seen progressives on social media celebrating. What's your message to the American people? We, the freshman class, along with Speaker Johnson, just had a prayer for the sufferers from this terrible event. And we also have one of the congressmen who's been threatened that he's coming next, that in fact he posted sorrow about this and somebody posted right back that he's next in line for this sort of event. And I'll just say to Jake that this is all entirely unacceptable. We in the United States of America, we deal with things in a civil fashion, myself included, and we will continue to do that.

1:41:27And violence will not intimidate us. Violence will not silence our good people. And I'm standing by those words that I said in 24. That's how I've lived my life. And foul language, violent rhetoric, and violent acts are not going to make me stand down, and they're not going to make my colleagues here in the United States Congress stand down either. What do you think needs to change? Because, you know, we saw this with the assassination of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, allegedly by Luigi Mangione, where actually there were a number of people who not only celebrated, but continue to celebrate that horrific act of violence.

1:42:05Another father taken from this planet for his nonviolent acts. does there need to be more shame introduced into American cultural life? Does there need to be less fewer silos where people are only talking to people who only agree with them? Jake, sadly, this kind of violence has been going on for a long time. We know back in the day with MLK and RFK and JFK that these kind of things have happened. And some people, they have no capacity to deal with these things in a civil fashion. And the full weight and justice of the American system of justice will be brought to bear upon these people for their violent efforts.

1:42:45I've had death threats on myself as a state legislator, and I've also had vandalism to my house for efforts that I've had to move legislation forward. Jake, I'll just tell you, I'm a doctor, and I talk to people on a regular basis in the office prior to coming to Congress, and I still do some doctoring. The hearts of people are waxing cold. They're hard-heartedness and an unnatural approach to the world where people are callous and unwilling to engage with one another in a civil fashion. And where is the fix to this, Jake? It's in the hearts and minds of our people. We need to find and deal with these things in a fashion that is one-on-one with each of these individuals.

1:43:27But I'm afraid to say that many of these animalistic assassins are out there still. These people are cold-hearted killers. And in that case, we need to continue to have security for people like Charlie Kirk as well as others. And we'll do our best on that front. But I've talked to people in my office and I see the fact that there are many people that don't feel like there's hope beyond violence, violent rhetoric and even violent actions. And I just, I reject that. And I'm gonna continue to move forward for my entire life. We can deal with these things in a civil fashion. Utah Congressman Mike Kennedy, thank you so much.

1:44:02CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings is here with me now. And Scott, you knew Charlie Kirk. It's weird saying it in the past tense. You knew Charlie Kirk. You're close with one of his business associates. What's going through your mind right now as we have to talk about this horrific event? Well, a couple of things. Number one, I think people are already saying things they shouldn't be saying. Joe Walsh is a good example of that. What did you know? I mean, today, a 31-year-old father of two and a husband is dead. There's really nothing more to say than this is unacceptable and it's wrong.

1:44:48There's no both sides in it. A man is dead. And so that's number one. I've heard J.B. Pritzker blame Donald Trump today. I don't understand. Our friend is dead. And we've got people out here who just can't stop grinding political axes. And so I fear it's going to keep happening, and we'll keep tabs on it, of course. But my strong advice would be to put your phone down, take a step back, and don't do it. This is a—we've crossed some kind of line in the country today. I don't know what that looks like on the other side. People are gutted. People are angry. People are in shock. What was Charlie Kirk's sin?

1:45:38He went on a college campus to debate people about ideas. He wasn't a violent person. He engaged in rhetoric and speech and debate. That's the essence of American political culture. And now he's dead. And so I just, you know, Jake, I got to tell you, man, some people have it in them to do the right thing and some people don't. and I'm afraid in the aftermath of this. I mean, we've seen members of Congress nearly assassinated. We've seen the president nearly assassinated. Charlie is dead. Everybody needs to take stock of their own thoughts right now and think before they speak is my strong advice.

1:46:15Yeah, the only thing I'd say is, you know, we saw the former Speaker of the Minnesota House assassinated. We saw somebody try to assassinate Governor Shapiro, trying to burn down his house. I'm just saying I don't think it started today. Today, a dark era got darker. But it's horrible what's going on. And I don't know a way out of it as a culture without people just beginning to recognize the humanity of each other. Well, the way out of it is what was Charlie's mission? to use his voice, his speech, and his talent for debating to try to engage people in American politics and engage them he did by the millions.

1:47:04And these people showed up to listen to political debates. It's a miracle what he was doing with his words, with his speech, with his powers of reasoning. You could disagree with him, and many did, and that's fine. But obviously, what he created in his use of speech in this political movement was so threatening to some people that they decided that, well, we're tired of debating. And so the way out of it is the Charlie way. We debate, we reason with each other, we talk to each other, and then we vote and we see how it turns out. But we're in a bad place. Conservatives are freaked out today. They're angry.

1:47:53They're gutted. He stood for a lot of things, but more than anything, he stood for showing up in places that you don't expect to see conservatives and unapologetically standing for his faith and his values. And we'll never forget it. Scott Jennings, thank you so much for those thoughts. CNN has much more ahead on this horrific breaking news. Aaron Burnett out front continues our coverage right now.

1:48:21A high-stakes showdown in Michigan's fierce Democratic Senate race. Progressives and moderates battle for power. Who will come out on top? Join CNN for results and analysis. Michigan Primary, August 4th on CNN, and watch on the CNN app.