Trump Dodges Appointing Special Counsel To Investigate Epstein

24:41The attacks came after days of clashes in Syria's southern city of Sueda between Bedouin tribes and the Druze community, a religious minority whose members also live in Israel and Lebanon. Dozens of people have been killed in the clashes in recent days. Syrian troops soon entered Sueda, with the government saying it was looking to stop the violence. But some Druze leaders saw the approach of government forces as a threat. And so did Israel, which struck approaching Syrian tanks, rocket launchers and trucks carrying weapons, saying it was acting to prevent a massacre against the Druze. But Israel isn't just striking to protect the Druze.

25:24We are committed to keeping southwestern Syria a demilitarized zone. Israeli troops captured this buffer zone between Syria and the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights after the fall of the Assad regime last year. But Israel has also demanded Syrian troops remain out of southern Syria altogether. together. In Israeli-held Golan Heights, the large Syrian Druze community here is deeply impacted by attacks on the Druze in Sueda.

25:54Jake Tapper:My wife is in Syria. My uncles are from Syria, and my family is in Syria, in Sueda. I don't like to see them being killed. They kicked them out of their homes. They robbed and burned their houses. But I can't do anything. It's very hard on me. That sense of helplessness driving hundreds of Druze to take matters into their own hands, pouring across an Israeli security fence and into the Syrian buffer zone on the road to Sueda. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem. And our thanks to Jeremy Diamond for that report. Also in our world lead today, Russia fired some 400 drones and one missile into four key regions of Ukraine overnight.

26:35Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's hometown was among the targets. The strikes come just days after President Trump expressed frustration with Russian President Vladimir Putin and promised more military aid to Ukraine will come funneled through NATO. Ahead, what elected Democrats said today after meeting the high-profile progressive Zoran Mamdani, who is the Democratic nominee for New York City mayor, plus notable names going out of their way to visit early primary state South Carolina. Is it too early to be testing the waters of 2028?

27:12Jake Tapper:Anybody that's staying out at this point instead of endorsing this incredible dynamic leader is missing an opportunity. We were just learning skills from him communication skills it was not about whether we're supporting him or not. I think he's a very personable smart young man and and I hope we're not going to I have a lot of circular firing squads. Some praise today from House Democrats for Zoran Mamdani. He is the Democratic nominee for New York mayor. House Democrats got a chance today to hear directly from him at an event here in Washington, D.C., hosted by Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, also from New York.

27:51Here to discuss two Democrats, Kate Bedingfield, former White House Communications Director under President Biden, and Ashley Etienne, former Harris Communications Director and Senior Advisor for then Speaker Nancy Pelosi. So I thought, I don't know what you guys thought, but I thought the idea that we're learning communication skills from him, from Congresswoman Rivas, was very interesting. Because he obviously, moving aside some of his baggage and the fact that he's a democratic socialist, he obviously has tremendous communication skills.

28:21Jake Tapper:No, I mean, that's absolutely right. And actually, the person who brought him, AOC, who has even more spectacular communication skills. And she's been driving this point for the Democratic Party for some time. You know, if we just take a step back here, here's how I see it. I think the Democratic Party is facing a three-year alarm fire. We're in an identity crisis where you have these internal warring factions. We have outdated infrastructure from our state parties to how we engage voters, which is what Mondani was talking about today. And then the third is that we have a trust gap with our base.

28:51Jake Tapper:And we're bleeding support. And all of that I saw play out in this New York primary race just now. And so the fact that he's there addressing the caucus and engaging the caucus, which, you know, I've been in those rooms. You know, many of those members are not not just I mean, no disrespect, not just aging, but even their tactics and their strategies are a little dated, too. And really educating the party on two lessons that we need to take away. One, which is the affordability message is a winner. And second, we've got to diversify our tactics. We've got to become more aggressive about meeting voters where they are.

29:27Jake Tapper:But for me, put all of that aside, if we don't as a party really address this three-alarm fire in a robust way, we're going to continue to lose. So I'll get back to that in a second, the larger issue with the Democratic Party. but on the Mamdani issue, sources told CNN that Mamdani had told a bunch of business leaders in a closed-door meeting yesterday in New York that he says he will discourage people from using the phrase globalize the intifada, a term that obviously a lot of people find anti-Semitic, think that it calls for violence against Jews. But he's not condemning the phrase. He's going to discourage Jews, but not condemning the phrase.

30:04And lest we forget, the two major Democratic leaders in this country, Chuck Schumer of New York in the Senate, Hakeem Jeffries of New York in the House, have not yet endorsed Mamdani. And I think some of his far left positions and some of these issues about Israel are part of the reason.

30:19Jake Tapper:Yeah, he should distance himself from the phrase. It's a deeply problematic phrase. And he and he should, I think, make very clear that it's as I think he said before, that it's not one he himself uses. He should be unequivocal about that. Look, I think it is a problem for Democrats when progressives apply these liberal purity tests. I think it's equally a problem when moderates do. I think we need to build as big a tent as we possibly can. I think in Mamdani, you've seen somebody who's generated genuine energy in, admittedly, one of the most liberal and progressive cities, districts in the country.

30:52Jake Tapper:But he's generating genuine excitement. The Democratic Party should embrace that. That doesn't mean that every Democrat in a purple or a red district across the country has to endorse him. In fact, there are things about him they can run against. That's fine. But I think that Democrats should learn what they can from him. I think it's great that he was speaking to the caucus today. He obviously knows a lot about communication. He's very authentic. He's smart. And he talks in a way that's accessible and speaks to concerns that people have. That's a good thing, and Democrats should learn from him.

31:24So, meanwhile, Democratic Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear was in South Carolina today. And this comes to the issue of Democrats going forward, fueling speculation that he might run for president in 2028 when asked repeatedly about his future. He took a jab at Vice President J.D. Vance by contrasting their various roots in the Appalachian heartland. He also said this. I'm traveling more because I'm trying to be a common sense, common ground, get things done type of voice that can pull not just Democrats back together, but hopefully pull Republicans and independents together too and say, let's focus on these everyday needs of Americans.

31:59Let's depoliticize them and get people results. Is that what you're looking for?

32:06Jake Tapper:I think people definitely are looking for results. I think he's a spectacular voice, one that we don't leverage and utilize and exploit enough in the Democratic Party. I mean, you've got a Democrat running a red state and successfully running a red state. knows very well what's happening on the ground and how Trump's policies are affecting an array of people. So his voice is incredibly necessary right now for the Democratic Party. But I think the problem that we always have is that we sort of navel gaze and look for the next messiah. And we think that the solution is going to be a message and it's going to be a person when the reality is we actually need to take a step back as a party.

32:46Jake Tapper:And as I mentioned, really invest in rebuilding our infrastructure. We're getting our butts kicked on so many different fronts by the Republicans, from engaging in influencer strategy, meeting new techniques to meet voters where they are. Our state party infrastructure is the oldest of the entire party. People talk about our elected leaders being the oldest, but it's our state party officials that are outdated. We're not investing in rebuilding the party from the ground up. So that's really what I would advise, is these folks need to really spend more time investing in building the party. What do you think Democrats need to do?

33:18Jake Tapper:Well, look, very practically, from 2028, Democrats need to speak to voters who did not vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, and they need to find message that is going to resonate with voters who didn't feel connected to or seen in the message that they heard from from Harris and Walz. And so I think when I see somebody like Andy Beshear, who has, you know, 65 percent, 68 percent approval rating in a state like Kentucky, where who won one excuse me, Commonwealth, Commonwealth, who won re-election after having everything thrown at him by the Republican Party, including all of the most aggressive Trump messaging in 2023.

33:55Jake Tapper:I think that's a really, that's a very encouraging place to be. But what we're bleeding most is with our base voters right now. That's the real problem. And so whether or not he can speak to those base voters is I know. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Ashley Etienne and Kate Bendingfield, thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. Next on the lead, the tragic scenes in Texas. and a Republican congressman whose daughters thankfully escaped Camp Mystic as the devastating water started to rise. Stay with us.

34:22Back with our national lead, recovery efforts still underway after deadly flash flooding claimed the lives of at least 130 people in Texas on the 4th of July. 27 of those were campers and counselors at Camp Mystic, as you know, an all-girls Christian camp along the Guadalupe River. Joining us now is the father of two of the campers, Congressman August Pflueger of Texas. Thankfully, his daughters, Caroline and Juliana, made it out okay. And Congressman, let me just start by asking you, how are Caroline and Juliana doing? Well, Jake, thank you for asking. They're doing well. It's obviously a traumatic event.

35:01We're entirely grateful and so blessed that they're with us. but our prayers and our thoughts with so many families, not just at the camp, but with so many families that were up and down the river who don't have their loved ones. And this has been a wake up call, I think, for a lot of people. Many people that I've talked to have said that they're going home and hugging their kids. And I hope that that's some of the good that can come from it. But I think it's gonna be a long road for many of the campers that were there and many of the people that were up and down the river that experienced this trauma that we'll have to work through it and understand it.

35:36And it's just tragic. I mean, it's just heartbreaking. And our prayers are with so many families right now. As a lawmaker, I'm sure it's impossible to step back from this because it's so personal. But as a lawmaker, do you have questions about Camp Mystic or Kerr County or Texas and what can be done in the future so this never happens again? Or if it does, that people are better prepared? Well, I'll start with Camp Mystic. I mean, we love the camp. There's so many places around the country that are like that, that take an interest, a personal interest in raising up boys and girls to be good citizens and community members.

36:16So Camp Mystic, like many other places in the Eastland family, have poured their hearts and souls into raising kids. So, you know, we need to maintain that spirit there and elsewhere. You know, the first responders, Texas Department of Emergency Management, FEMA, DHS, did a phenomenal job of responding. This was a tragic event that I don't think you can necessarily plan for. Of course, as an Air Force guy, you always debrief. There will be a time for that, and you always look to do things better. I think right now what I hope for the nation, though, and as a lawmaker to set this tone, I hope for the nation that we focus back on the family.

36:59I hope for the nation that we focus back on our faith and that we can come together. And in a politically divided world, that we can use this as an opportunity to come together as families, as communities to help. I mean, the outreach from out of state, from in state, from everywhere to help at the camp and up and down the river was incredible. As you know, as an Air Force veteran, I mean, one of the things I'm not an Air Force veteran, but one of the things I know about the Air Force is that so much of it is about planning for every single possible contingency. So maybe your leadership in that arena can be helpful.

37:34I want to ask about yesterday when the Texas delegation gathered on the floor of the House of Representatives to pray together. How is it going back home in Texas nearly two weeks after the disaster? How are the citizens who live? Because I know it didn't just affect those on the Guadalupe. It affected the entire state and indeed the entire country. Jake, thank you. That's the exact right question. And our communities are hurting. My hometown of San Angelo and many of my surrounding counties that I represent were hit by massive flooding, destroying many structures. and thankful that FEMA and the Trump administration have declared disasters there.

38:15But the communities are coming together. People will, we will rebound and Texas is strong. And this is an instance where we have the opportunity to show that strength to come together as communities. But people are hurting, and especially those who lost their loved ones. I mean, it's just, it's hard, Jake, it's hard to even talk about right now. You know, I get choked up even thinking about it and to talk about it is really difficult. but you asked the exact right question, how are those families doing? The good news is that so many communities have reached out. So many people have asked how they can help.

38:48And it actually makes you proud to be an American, proud to be a Texan, proud to be from the area that I'm from. And I know there's many communities who have endured tragedies, but this one was really just unlike anything else I'd ever seen. Truly horrible, truly horrible. Congressman August Pflueger, always great to have you on the show. Thank you so much. And please send our best wishes and our love and our prayers to your beautiful family. Thank you so much, Jake. Republican Senator Tom Tillis in North Carolina is calling out President Trump when it comes to not releasing Epstein scandal documents.

39:20Tillis said, quote, release the damn files. And he's by far not the only vocal Republican on this matter. We're going to go to The Hill next.

39:55Jake Tapper:We'll be right back. Totally 90s house. All new Wednesday night at 9 on HGTV.

40:04Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour I'm going to talk with the House Democrat leading the charge to force the hand of the Justice Department to release whatever documents they have on now dead pedophile sexual trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. Plus, new details on a stunning murder. An American Idol producer and her husband tragically killed after a break-in into their Los Angeles home. Also today, the opioid crisis in America. One city had 27 overdoses in a single day. I'm going to talk with that city's mayor. And breaking news on Capitol Hill. Senate Democrats pushing back on the GOP efforts to seal the deal on federal cuts made by Doge.

40:45or the Department of Government Efficiency, first led by Elon Musk. This is about what's called the rescissions package. And the big question is, will funding for Burt, Ernie, and Sesame Street get nixed in this vote?

41:03To lead this hour, President Trump says he will permit his Justice Department to release any more credible information about its investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. But he dodged a question on whether he would consider appointing a special counsel saying, quote, I have nothing to do with it. This comes as he is accusing some of his own supporters of being, quote, weaklings. He says they're falling prey to what he calls a hoax when it comes to the Epstein files, one that's being perpetrated by Democrats. I lost a lot of faith in certain people. Yeah, I lost because they got duped by the Democrats.

41:37This drama comes amid blowback within Trump's MAGA base over the Justice Department's announcement last week that there was no Epstein client list and that it would not release any more documents about the probe. But prominent Republicans throughout the country, including on Capitol Hill, notably House Speaker Mike Johnson, are signaling that they actually want more information disclosed. And here's Senator Tom Tillis of North Carolina on WBT radio. He takes issue with President Trump contending that the Epstein case is, quote, boring. I have to disagree with the president. I don't think human trafficking of young teenage girls being exploited by billionaires on a private island is boring.

42:20I think it's despicable. And I believe that anybody who had anything to do with it or knowledge of it should be held accountable. So just release the damn files. Just release the damn file. CNN's Manu Raj is on Capitol Hill. Manu, I take it most Republicans on the Hill, or at least a sizable chunk, don't think that this is a hoax, as the president says. Yeah, there are a lot of Republicans who really were in line with where Donald Trump was as early as a few months ago, calling for the release of all this information. And they simply don't buy what the Justice Department is saying, that they don't have more information to release.

42:59There's certainly a client list, some question whether that actually exists. The Justice Department in a memo suggested that did not exist. Many Republicans simply don't buy that explanation. But there is a divide, Jake, among Republicans, many of whom are, though, aligning with Donald Trump, including some in some prominent positions who do not believe there should be any further investigation into this matter. I think it's maybe a little difficult to believe. The idea that DOJ and the FBI, who prosecute cases related to this, don't have any idea who Epstein's clients were and that he had no record of it, of the clients.

43:37I find that kind of hard to believe. I mean, my view is make public everything you can make public. Should the Judiciary Committee let's get this? Well, I saw that, I never know how to pronounce her name, but Max, his associate. I think she said that she would be willing to testify. I mean, why not? Why not put her under oath? Should you guys look into this Jeffrey Epstein matter, given how much controversy there's been? We trust you to do that. Should the House Judiciary Committee investigate Epstein? We are. I have total confidence in the president and his team. And that last comment coming from the House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan, who has not been shy about wielding his investigative power as chairman of that committee, but indicating there, suggesting at least, that this would not be something that he would pursue.

44:21Now, Jake, this all comes as there's been legislative efforts to try to press ahead to force release of these documents. One Congressman, Democrat Ro Khanna, has pushed forward on this issue, but it has been blocked by Republicans. But there are some Republicans who are still trying to see if they can circumvent Republican leadership and force a vote in the full House of Representatives. That one Congressman, Thomas Massey of Kentucky, is trying to force this vote on the House floor. But he would need the support of at least four Republican members of the House to sign on with all Democrats to make the full House vote to release these documents.

44:58It's unclear if he's able to be able to get that or if GOP leaders will block that effort going forward. All right, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Thanks so much. Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California joins us now from Capitol Hill. Congressman Khanna, thank you so much. What do you make of President Trump blaming Democrats for the Epstein files brouhaha, saying that that's your party perpetrating a hoax on unsuspecting Republicans. Jake, this is the first time he's getting ratioed on Truth Social by his own base. His own base knows that's not true. He campaigned on releasing these files.

45:33And just to update Manu, because he always knows the details, but Thomas Massey has been texting me all day. We introduced this resolution together. He already has seven Republicans signed up as co-sponsors, and we're going to deliver all 212 Democrats. So we already have the threshold to get a vote on this, and I expect that that count is going to continue to go up today and tomorrow. And this is to force, this is a discharge petition, right? It's going to force this bill onto the floor of the House, and then what does it say? So it's both the discharge petition and the bill. The discharge petition is to force it on the House.

46:14The way it works is Thomas Massey and I introduced it yesterday. It takes seven legislative days before you can actually go through the discharge petition. We're likely going to be in August recess. So the reality is it probably will come up for a vote after the August recess. And the bill says to release all evidence for the Epstein file, but it makes it clear that does not include any of the victim information. It does not include any child pornography. It gives the DOJ the ability to protect the victims, but to release all the other evidence and files. So here's the thing. I've been following this story now for years.

46:52It seems possible, if not likely, that the Justice Department and the various investigations, whether the U.S. attorney in Miami or the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York or anyone else looking into this, might have found the names of very wealthy, powerful men that maybe availed themselves of women who were either underage or barely 18 years old, 19 years old, but they did not think it was prosecutable for whatever reason. And sometimes, as you know, and this is not a perfect world in which we live, sometimes prosecutors make decisions like that because the accusers are, for want of a better term, young prostitutes, people who, you know, that the defense might have an easy time attacking on the stand.

47:49And so they just decide to not go through it. I'm not saying I like it. I'm just saying that that is a decision prosecutors made. Do you still think that those people's names should be released? I'm not the victims, not the prostitutes, not the former sex workers, et cetera. I'm talking about the businessmen that may have availed themselves of this horrific a crime. J.K., I do. You make the best argument substantively for cautioning on a release, and that is that DOJ policy has basically been, don't leak things unless you're going to charge someone. And that policy as a general matter makes sense.

48:25You wouldn't want a Justice Department being politicized, releasing information about members of Congress or senators without charging them just to embarrass them. You can see how that really would be a bad precedent. But this is an unusual case, and I think the president should say this has implicated so many people, some who are serving in government, some foreign leaders. There are questions about whether U.S. or foreign governments were involved. The attorney general now has said that there potentially could be a client list. I campaigned on the release, and we're going to make an exception in this case to restore trust and put everything out there.

49:03and trust the American people not to judge people if they're innocent. But this should be a one-time exception, not a change in the DOJ rule. I did not use the word innocent. I said people that were not prosecuted. That does not necessarily mean innocent. One last question. Have you gotten any sort of understanding? I know you work with a lot of Republicans, including Congressman Massey. Do you have any sort of understanding as to why the president has done such an about face on this after literally campaigning on it last fall? You know, I think the president just didn't realize, far be it for me to tell him about his own voters, but what a big deal this would be.

49:41And he has managed in the past to do an about face on other things. He said he would end the war on day one. He didn't. People gave him a pass. We can go on and on. The point isn't to point out where he's falling short. And on this, I think he thought he'd get away with it. He'd say, OK, I campaigned on this. We gave it the old college try and now we're moving on. and his base would move on with him, like they have on almost every other thing. But the reason they aren't is this goes to the core of why he ran, a fundamental disgust and disdain for powerful elite people who many Americans think have too much influence in our government and have their thumb on the scale.

50:19And it goes to the heart of his populism. And that's why I think he's underestimated the anger in the base. It's the first time in Congress you have Republicans, even if they're not publicly disagreeing, privately disagreeing. And I think ultimately he's going to have to release these files. I just don't see it being plausible that he's going to be able to continue without the release. They may not pass Massey in my bill, but he will be pressured to release these files. All right, Congressman Ro Khanna, Democratic California. Good to see you, sir. Thank you so much. CNN's senior political commentator Scott Jennings is joining us now.

50:50Scott, what do you make of the president's truth social post this morning where he essentially says that anyone who wants more information on Epstein released is buying into a hoax and they're weaklings and he doesn't want their support. Well, I sense that he's frustrated. I mean, this is a president that I think rightly believes he's had the best six months he could have possibly had. And now he's got all these people that he thought were in his corner, you know, all over him over this issue, which, you know, necessarily takes attention away from economy or international affairs or the other things that he thinks he deserves their praise and support on.

51:25So I sense frustration. You know, there may be frustration with the way it's been handled internally. I don't know. I've also heard him say today that if there's credible information that can be released, it should be released. And so you can see him inching toward trying to bring some closure to this by getting his government to put things out if it is within the realm of the possible. So mostly I just sense frustration from a guy who thinks he's on a roll. And yet, you know, this issue has popped up and has been a a bit of a speed bump among his biggest supporters. Right. But obviously the reason that this has happened is because, A, he and a number of people in his administration said that this information should be released.

52:03And then, B, a couple weeks ago, maybe like a month after Elon Musk claimed with no evidence that Trump is on the Epstein list, the DOJ just put out a statement basically saying nothing to see here. This case is closed. That's why this has happened. And it's not a bunch of people conspiring to change the subject from the six months he's had. It's his own supporters. I mean, I first became aware of this story as a, oh, my God, the president's base is really mad at him about this DOJ letter. I mean, that's how I learned about it. Well, I also think he's frustrated with Democrats on it because, you know, he's basically had them on the ropes for the last six months.

52:42They haven't been able to deal with him politically. And now all of a sudden they have an opening. I mean, you just had Ro Khanna on. You can see he's full throttle on this. It's the first time Democrats recently have legitimately been able to, you know, drive a little bit of wedge between the president and some of his top supporters. So I'm sure as a political matter, he has frustration that some of his top supporters are being used by Democrats as a cudgel against him. You know, so I again, I just I sense frustration. I don't know what he's going to do. I don't know what they can do. It's opaque to me.

53:10My only political advice would be whatever you're going to do, do it fast, because this, dripping, dripping, dripping. Just if you've got something, put it out. If you don't, explain why you can't in full and as transparently as possible and do it as quickly as you can. And just to remind folks, I mean, the person that really brought this issue to the fore was Elon Musk after Trump and he had their falling out. Elon Musk talked about this list, about releasing all this information to Tucker Carlson in the last month before the election. Take a listen. I think part of why Kamala is getting so much support is that if Trump wins, that F-Z inclined list is going to become public.

53:49Yes. And some of those billionaires behind Kamala are terrified of that outcome. So that's Elon Musk saying one of the reasons that billionaires were lining up behind Kamala Harris was because they were afraid because Trump was going to release the list. And then he goes out there and says Trump's on the list. So, I mean, that's how this happened. I know. And you were just talking to Ro Khanna about this. It's DOJ policy not to release information about people unless you plan to charge them. Now, Ro is willing to make an exception in this case because he thinks it's going to hurt Donald Trump politically to do that.

54:21But that's longstanding DOJ policy. It would probably be irresponsible to put people's names in the public domain if they didn't do anything wrong or if they are not going to be charged with a crime. So I do think there are sensitivities here that the DOJ people have to sort out. But I don't dispute you. The reason this is a big deal is because it was talked about by some of his supporters for a very long time. Now they're in power, and sometimes heavy is the head that wears the crown, and governing is different than campaigning. Kentucky's own Scott Jennings, good to see you, sir. Thanks so much.

54:49Thanks. We're standing by for a major vote on Capitol Hill that could end with Vice President J.D. Vance being forced to break a tie, as is the role of the Vice President when it is 50-50. This measure is over what's called rescissions. It's federal cuts being recommended by Doge. access to public TV and public radio, possibly on the chopping block. We'll bring that to you next. I'm going to talk to a Senate Republican about the back and forth playing out all day long on this issue of the rescissions package and budget cuts. Stay with us.

55:22And we're back with our politics lead. You are looking right now at what they call in the Senate a voter Rama. That's Republicans and Democrats voting over issue after issue after issue. In this one, Republicans are hoping to claw back more than$9 billion in funding that has already been appropriated at the behest of, who else? President Trump. The move brings the White House a step closer to making Elon Musk's DOGE, or Department of Government efficiency, cuts official. This measure includes a major slash to foreign aid, including the U.S. Agency for International Development, or U.S. aid, as well as cuts to public broadcasting agencies.

56:01An amendment to try to save the money meant for public broadcasting services, NPR and PBS stations around the country, was struck down in the last hour. Only one Republican, Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, voted with Democrats to try to save that$1.1 billion in funding. CNN's Brian Stelter is here to unpack what that means for viewers like you. Brian, how much do NPR, PBS and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, How much do they rely upon federal funding? Well, generally speaking, the smaller the local station, the more reliant it is on federal funding. Big city stations in metro areas will not go off the airwaves if they lose this federal funding.

56:43But smaller stations in rural areas, particularly in Republican strongholds and hard to reach areas, for example, in Senator Lisa Murkowski's Alaska, those stations could well go dark. I've spoken with station executives who expect that will happen, not right away, but potentially in the months and years to come. The public media system is complex. The money is sorted out in lots of different ways. But ultimately, it trickles down to the local level and then back up nationally. So some of the bigger stations will be just fine, although they will rely more heavily on viewer and listener donations in the future.

57:16More broadly, Jake, we're seeing something break apart after decades of bipartisan consensus. When the public broadcasting was created in the 1960s, Republicans and Democrats were all on board. This was a bipartisan idea. But in recent years, that has fractured. And like so many other things, this has been nationally polarized. And that's where we are today with Republicans trying to shut down and zero out all the funding. What kind of pushback from Democrats or independents or donors or viewers or listeners have these cuts received? Yeah, there's definitely been an effort in recent months to mobilize NPR and PBS listeners and viewers, getting them to call members of Congress.

57:54But frankly, that's had little effect, right? The House very quickly pushed this along and now it's the Senate's turn to finish this rescinders process. You can see the messaging from Senator Chuck Schumer. I'll put his tweet up on screen. This is a map that Democrats have been promoting this week, showing all the local stations arguing that local news will suffer. Emergency alerts will suffer. That's the message from Democrats. Republicans are talking about a totally different topic. They're focused on alleged bias at NPR and PBS on the national level. Here's the Heritage Foundation saying NPR and PBS are left-wing propaganda factories.

58:25They're free to debase themselves in that way, but they don't deserve a penny of taxpayer funding to do so. So as in so many different political arguments, you have two sides talking about two almost completely different topics. Republicans focusing on national alleged bias, Democrats worrying about local impacts, and soon we'll see what happens, Jake. All right. CNN's Brian Stelter. Thank you so much. I want to bring in Republican Senator Roger Marshall from the state of Kansas. Senator, thanks for joining us. So how is this voterama moving along? Could you be on track when it comes to final passage of the rescissions, these doge cuts for another vote that's 50 50 and Vice President Vance breaks the tie?

59:02Well, it's moving slowly and painfully, as these always do. I think it's going to be a late, late night. And yes, I expect Vice President Vance to make an appearance tonight. The cuts outlined in the package were handed down to the Senate. Not usually how this process works. I think the last time this happened may have been during the Clinton administration. Your colleague, Senator Murkowski, pointed that out on the Senate floor last night ahead of the procedural vote to begin. Take a listen.

59:30Jake Tapper:We're lawmakers. We should be legislating. What we're getting now is a direction from the White House and being told, this is the priority. We want you to execute on it. We'll be back with you with another round. I don't accept that. I'm going to be voting no. Even if you agree with the substance of the cuts, do you have any concerns here about the methodology, about the Senate just kind of taking orders from the White House when it comes to what you guys are supposed to be doing, appropriating, legislating? Look, I think the biggest problem that this country faces is our$37 trillion national debt that we're spending a trillion dollars a year on interest.

1:00:12If you think about where these cuts are coming from, USAID, our own government accounting office, our own IEG, Inspector General, have said, look, that USAID is at systemic risk, that there's significant fraud, waste, and abuse going on, that they don't really have an audit system. So we have identified with congressional health, congressional review, significant waste and fraud. Think about USAID just recently, a$500 million fraud scheme of bribes here in this country overseeing those programs. In New Guinea,$100 million embezzlement issue,$50 million of waste on medical equipment in Zambia. So the fraud, the waste, the abuse is out there.

1:00:53We need to do something. And this is some, I would say, low-hanging fruit. I wish we had a bigger rescission package. But isn't the 10-year projection for debt something like another$20 trillion, even with these cuts? the idea that this is the solution way overstated, that the real money is in Medicare, in the Pentagon budget, Social Security, places that it's much more politically difficult to really make the kind of spending cuts or tax increases that would seriously address the$37 trillion debt? Yeah, well, certainly Congress has a spending problem, and we need to address that. But I think that we want to be frugal with our money, that I was taught to be frugal, to be concerned with other people's money, which this is, to take the very best care of it that I can.

1:01:50I don't care how much debt we're in or even if we had a surplus. I don't want to see waste and fraud like we've been seeing through USAID. I do think that both parties need to do a better job of working towards a balanced budget. Again, our national debt, the biggest problem our country faces long term. Also on the table is about$1 billion of funding for public broadcasting, NPR stations, PBS stations around the country. A lot of people in rural areas where there really isn't any news other than these stations are expected to be hit hard. There's a story in USA Today from your state about one such station, Smoky Hills PBS, that broadcast to about 1.2 million Kansans across 71 counties.

1:02:30And the general manager of the station says they used the federal funding not for any national program, but to operate transmitters, cover salaries, create local programming in Kansas, like showing high school wrestling. These are the same rural parts of your state that also have Kansans without access to broadband. Kansans who are struggling seriously with poverty. I'm wondering, are you concerned about that? Are you going to work with the state to fill any gaps that these cuts would leave when it comes to Kansas public broadcasting? Look, if there are any gaps, I think you're way overstating them.

1:03:05I know exactly where that radio station is. I can think of a dozen radio stations that are overlapping with that. In today's world, I haven't met a person lately that didn't have a phone and access to news and weather. Look, in Kansas, it's not a matter of if but when a tornado is going to hit your property. So you know when the weather is coming and you're going to turn on your radio, you want a local television station probably with the radar. So as far as an emergency is going off in the middle of the night, most of us in those areas have a special weather alert system that's going to wake us up as well.

1:03:38So I think that's way overstated. Look, if those stations want to stay open and they can make it, I wish them the very, very best. But again, in the backdrop of a country that's taking in$5 trillion but spending$7 trillion a year, I think that this is one of the niceties we can do without. Yeah, I mean, Smoky Hills PBS is a television station, not a radio station. But Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas, thank you so much. Appreciate your time. You bet. Thank you. Giving credit where it's due, just hours ago, President Trump's notable step towards fighting America's fentanyl crisis, plus one city's battle after 27 drug overdoses hit that city in a single day.

1:04:17The mayor is going to join us.

1:04:24And this is not an auto pen, right? That's for sure. That's great. Thank you very much.

1:04:59Schedule 1 drugs such as heroin or ecstasy. We'll be getting the drug dealers, pushers and peddlers off our street, and we will not rest until we have ended the drug overdose epidemic. This legislation made it to Trump with overwhelming support from Republicans and Democrats in the House and the Senate. Today, we're calling the fentanyl and opioid crisis the buried lead because it falls under stories that we feel at the lead here deserve more attention than they're getting. The issue caught our attention most recently in a big way last week when the city of Baltimore reported 27 people were hospitalized in a mass drug overdose event last Thursday.

1:05:4127 people, one city, one day. The city's mayor is with me, Brandon Scott. Mayor Scott, thanks for joining us. So emergency teams learned of this widespread event after responding to just one call last Thursday morning. Tell us more about what happened. Well, listen, thank you, Jake, for having me. This is a tragic incident, and we're grateful, most importantly, Jake, that there were no fatalities. It's important for us to understand in this incident a few things. First, Baltimore and especially communities like Penn North where this happened have faced the brunt of the opioid epidemic for decades.

1:06:14And second, the investments that we've been making to provide care and resources and bring community partners to the table are the reason why we're able to respond so quickly. We know we're investigating, obviously, throughout police department. They will lead that investigation into who put those drugs out, and we will find those people, and we will remove them via law enforcement from our community. But secondly, we're going to continue to support that community, because when you talk about overdose and opioids in Baltimore, it's very personal for me, having grown up here and seen and seen people and lost people through this crisis myself.

1:06:50So your city's long had an opioid problem in 2023 alone. Baltimore's health department reports that 921 people were lost to fentanyl related deaths. That's tragic. What do you think is going on? And obviously, this hits impoverished areas of the country, whether Appalachia or Baltimore. Tell us how you how you see this problem. Well, I think that, listen, we have to, if we're talking about truly about the overdose and drug addiction problem in this country, we have to look back at the years of failed policy. We have to look at the years where we know that drugs were pushed into these communities and the ways that we looked at addiction.

1:07:35I want to be very clear about this, Jake. If you are someone that is peddling drugs, a drug dealer, doing harm, literally giving people things that you know will kill them, you need to be removed from that community and put in jail. Full stop. But we also have to grow and evolve in our understanding of how to deal with addiction. Growing up in the 90s and 2000s, we know that this country, we were treating people with that addiction illness. And that's when it is an illness as inherently criminal. And that was the wrong way to do that. That's why we're investing in harm reduction to help alongside our police investigation, to make sure that we're getting people the help that they need to help us continue to reduce overdoses in Baltimore.

1:08:19I want to be very clear about those numbers. In 2023, we had 1 ,043 overdose deaths, and then we went down to 777 in 2024. That's a 25 percent reduction, and we have a long way to go. And when you when you do that work of investing in the communities the way that we have. And we also know, Jake, very clearly that Big Pharma played a role. We have went out and sued Big Pharma and won over 400 million dollars in restitution for the pills and things that were pushed into these communities that led to this crisis to just grow and blow up. Not just in Baltimore, but all over the country. Do you know where the fentanyl comes from when you work with when you work with DEA or other or other partners?

1:09:08I mean, is it is it coming from China? Is it coming from labs in Mexico? Do you know? It's it. We're going to track this one down. But we know we've had it in the years that since Fidna have really shown up and blown on the scene. We've had it come from all kind of places. And I think that's why we have to continue to work with our federal law enforcement partners and our local partners to make sure that we're doing our job here. at the local level that also we're working with our federal partners to close down how these dangerous substances are making it into our communities in the first place.

1:09:43All right, Mayor Brandon Scott of Baltimore. Good to see you, sir. Thanks for joining us. As of today, a different mayor, New York City Mayor Eric Adams, is facing a fifth lawsuit alleging corruption at the New York Police Department, this time why a former police commissioner is accusing him of running NYPD as a criminal enterprise.

1:10:04In our Law and Justice lead, New York City Mayor Eric Adams is facing a brand new lawsuit, the fifth one in two weeks, alleging that the NYPD he runs is corrupt. This latest lawsuit is filed by a former NYPD commissioner, and it accuses Adams of running the NYPD in City Hall as a, quote, criminal enterprise. CNN's Gloria Pasmino is tracking this for us. Gloria, how is Mayor Adams reacting to all these corruption allegations amid his re-election campaign for mayor?

1:10:29Jake Tapper:Yeah, Jake, it certainly is complicating what the mayor wants to be talking about right now, which is that murders and shootings here in New York City are way down. But instead, he is having to focus on responding to these allegations. Now, City Hall told me earlier today that they believe they will respond to this in court and that the allegations will ultimately be dismissed. Here's what this latest lawsuit alleges. This was filed by Thomas Donlon, the former interim police commissioner of the NYPD. And he says that Adams and top NYPD officials were essentially engaging in corruption, falsifying paperwork, promoting officers that did not that were not qualified to be promoted.

1:11:11Jake Tapper:And that all of this was in violation of many of the department's disciplinary process. Now, he also says that when he tried to bring all of this to the attention of the mayor, the mayor essentially ignored him. The lawsuit says in part, quote, defendant Adams took no action in response. Instead, he condoned the misconduct and allowed the NYPD to function as a criminal enterprise. Now, I should mention that Donilon had his own federal investigation while he was at the helm of the police department. You might remember that federal agents searched his home at one point. He was eventually replaced by Jessica Tish, who continues to be at the helm of the department.

1:11:55Jake Tapper:Here's what City Hall had to say in response to this lawsuit filed today. As you said, the fifth in the span of just two weeks. They said, quote, these are baseless accusations from a disgruntled former employee who, when given the opportunity to lead the greatest police department in the world, proved himself to be ineffective. This suit is nothing more than an attempt to seek compensation at the taxpayer's expense after Mr. Donilon was rightfully removed from the role of interim police commissioner. Now, Jake, I think what's important to highlight here is that all of this is coming to light just a day before Eric Adams is expected to get the endorsement from many of the law enforcement unions here in New York City.

1:12:34Jake Tapper:As you said, he is running for reelection as an independent. Notably, the union that represents many of the city's rank and file officers will not be at that endorsement tomorrow. But again, Eric Adams trying to keep the focus on the fact that the city is doing well when it comes to violence, shootings and murders, but instead having to respond to these allegations of corruption. All right, Gloria Pazmina, thanks so much. A small business that's been around since 1993 likely knows a thing or two about changes in the U.S. economy. We're going to talk to its owners to talk about how they're dealing with 2025 and the tariffs and the instability.

1:13:11Our Business Leaders series is next.

1:13:18Brand new today, President Trump is denying reports that he's likely to fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, anytime soon. This is just one day after new data showed the tariff-driven inflation that Powell warned about might be starting to rear its head, which brings us to our Business Leaders series, where we talk to small business owners from coast to coast to see what the impact of the tariffs has been on their businesses. Gambert Shirts has been manufacturing custom men's shirts and blouses in Newark, New Jersey since 1933. 1933. And owner Mitch Gambert joins us. Now, Mitch, how have the tariffs impacted the way that you source materials to make your shirts?

1:14:00Jake Tapper:Well, first, Jake, thanks for having me on. Um, the, the tariffs, uh, for the last three months, four months have right now have caused a lot of confusion, uh, to be perfectly honest. It's been hard to kind of settle on, uh, pricing to understand where we need to be with things. Uh, so it's been kind of a, a little bit of a wait and see type of thing. We, we haven't been raising prices. We've just sort of been eating what's going on at the moment until we really know where things land. And so it's caused a little bit of confusion for us. Do most of the fabrics and materials come from abroad? Unfortunately, all of our trims and fabrics are produced offshore, primarily Europe and Asia.

1:14:47Jake Tapper:There's no domestic weaving, not in the scope of what we need here. So everything we bring in is, in fact, imported, except for our corrugated boxes are the only things that we don't import. So there are no domestic alternatives for the kind of weaving and the kind of materials that you seek? There's no other option for you? Not in the scope of what we offer. In our swatch line, which is what we present to our dealer base, there's about, on average, there's about 1 ,000 fabrics or so. At the height of our business, we're up to 2 ,500 SKUs So that's a huge swath of numbers. And domestically here, most of the fabric that is produced here is for military or uniform quality.

1:15:42Jake Tapper:So the men's, we do tend to sell to a higher end consumer. So the more luxury market, it's completely, it's just non-existent here in the States. So you've been I know a lot of small businesses have margins pretty small between five and 10 percent. And you said you've been eating the costs. But obviously you can't do that forever. Are you going to have to raise your prices if things continue as they are? Well, we certainly are going to have to. We've been making some changes. You know, raising prices will certainly happen. It's just kind of waiting to know where we need to raise them to. I can't do four different price increases over a six-month period because we're dealing with 400 retail sellers that want to set their prices per season.

1:16:34Jake Tapper:So you can't really change prices mid-season. So, yes, ultimately, we will be forced to raise the prices. If you could talk to President Trump or your lawmakers about this, what would you want them to understand? Well, the tariffs are important. I actually support the tariffs on a finished good product, not on the raw materials. So there needs to be a little bit of a different approach to them, in my opinion. If they're trying to protect American manufacturers, they've got to help us be able to continue to bring in the materials we need to produce the products we make. I'm all for increasing tariffs on finished goods.

1:17:21Jake Tapper:It's definitely not a fair playing field. We know that they only tariff the goods part of the invoice, not the consulting services or the intangibles. So there's a lot of unfair play there. The big, beautiful bill package that they have with write-off a brand-new factory or a build-out on your factory, That's great if there's cash flow. But you've got to remember, we're coming off of the effects of COVID. It really disrupted supply chain and war in Europe. So these things are still affecting us. And banks aren't lending money. The government's not lending any money. And the only money out there is venture capitalists.

1:18:03Jake Tapper:And it's at exorbitant rates. Gambert Schertz, based in Newark, New Jersey. Mitch Gambert, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Right now in Los Angeles, police are investigating the tragic murders of an American Idol music supervisor and her husband. We'll bring you the latest in that case next.

1:18:26Tonight, American Idol producers are mourning the loss of one of their own, a longtime music supervisor on the show, and her husband were found dead in their Los Angeles home Monday in an apparent double homicide. CNN's Josh Campbell has the details. A music supervisor on American Idol and her husband brutally slain in their suburban Los Angeles home. The LAPD believes the attack was random, but homicide detectives are still investigating. A violent struggle ensued between them and the suspect who was already inside their home. Police were called to the home of Robin Kay and husband Thomas DeLuca Monday after a friend requested a welfare check.

1:19:05Officers responded, breached a window, and found their bodies riddled with gunshot wounds. The gruesome discovery was made just days after police were called to the residence following reports of a possible intruder.

1:19:17Jake Tapper:My renter called 911 on Thursday because she saw somebody hopping the fence, and I have no idea if that was related or not. They came and left. The helicopters and police came. Police now say the call was related, and officers conducted an investigation. They were unable to make entry onto the property due to it being highly fortified. However, they did do a flyover with the airship. There were no signs of forced entry or trouble at that time. They cleared from scene. Police said Tuesday the suspect, identified as 22-year-old Raymond Budarian, burglarized the couple's home while they were away.

1:19:55Surveillance video showed the suspect in the home for about a half hour before Kay and DeLuca returned, according to investigators. Police have not yet established any connection between Budarian and the couple. It just shows you no matter how much protection, security you have here, if they want to get in, they're going to get in. Kay worked as a music supervisor since the 90s, most notably on American Idol for more than a decade. We are devastated to hear of Robin and her dear husband Tom's passing, the show said in a statement. Robin has been a cornerstone of the Idol family since 2009 and was truly loved and respected by all who came in contact with her.

1:20:31American Idol fans and neighbors are still in shock. It's kind of upsetting, actually. So it happened that day.

1:20:40That's my reaction. You're just giving me that news. Wow. I talked to the police that day, and I kind of wondered why they left so fast. And I left thinking, OK, maybe it's not a big deal. But apparently it was. Now, Jake, we're learning that the attorney for the suspect hasn't been assigned yet, but he was arrested and charged last year for battery as well as intending to commit a crime with the intent of terrorism. Those charges were later dismissed, Jake, a judge finding he wasn't mentally fit to stand trial. Josh Campbell, what a shocking story. Thanks. Aaron Burnett Out Front starts right now.

1:21:17I'll see you tomorrow.