Trump Has A Chance To Pursue Justice In Epstein Scandal

24:15Do you worry at all that this is just going to become a free-for-all where there are no independent commissions that make congressional seats? I mean, where does this end? Well, in fact, there is a discussion there about these independent commissions. It's about 90 % to 10 % in California right now that the independent commission decided on. Texas has seen where there, and no one's disputed it, a huge rise in the amount of people who see economic freedom and development through the crystal of who vote, who they elect. And the Texas economy, the people of Texas want and need jobs and more jobs.

25:06And so we believe that it is matching up with what people would want. And that is people who would come to Washington and vote for the stability of the economy and less spending. So you're in favor of these redistricting efforts that allow whichever party controls the state to basically the politicians pick their voters instead of the other way around. Well, what I have said and what I believe in, that is the federal law. Supreme Court has indicated that a state decides those options. But when a state does choose those options, they cannot make decisions that would hinder or put someone in a diminished position.

25:46But I think that this last vote, as it went across the entire country and many Democrat areas, it went wildly in favor of Republicans or President Trump. So I believe that we can sustain what we're doing for the right reasons. And it is about control of the House of Representatives, but it is about Texas having the choice of what direction they'd like to go. And that is more jobs, less spending, and a brighter future. Republican Congressman Pete Sessions of Texas, thank you so much, sir. Today, President Trump again complained about Jerome Powell, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, saying that Powell's doing a bad job.

26:25He stopped short again of calling for his resignation. One prominent economist has an opinion. While he says it's time for Powell to leave, that's next.

26:38This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom, Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com. I'm CNN tech reporter Claire Duffy. This week on the podcast, Terms of Service. If you've followed tech news at all in the past few weeks, you've probably seen headlines about AI models going rogue.

27:20And I wanted to ask Stephen Adler if there's something that even us non-AI builders can do about it. Stephen is an AI researcher who previously worked on safety at OpenAI. He recently co-founded the nonprofit Guidelite AI Standards, which develops recommended safety practices for leading AI companies. I think the simplest way of putting it is that we now have evidence of AI systems essentially committing crimes without their developers wanting this to happen and not succeeding at reining them in. Listen to CNN's Terms of Service wherever you get your podcasts. Armani lead now President Trump stoking the fires of his fury at Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell once again this afternoon for not lowering interest rates.

28:08He's too late all the time. He should have lowered interest rates many times. Europe lowered their rate 10 times. We lowered ours none. People aren't able to buy a house because this guy is a numbskull. He keeps the rates too high and probably doing it for political reasons. President Trump did acknowledge that Powell has eight months left in his term, but prominent economist Mohammed El-Aryan is now calling for Powell to consider exiting sooner. He spoke with CNN's Richard Quest just last hour. I worry that if Chair Powell stays in position, we will see the attacks not on him personally, but expand to include more and more of the Fed's operations and ultimately that will undermine central bank independence.

28:52Joining us now to discuss Princeton University economics professor Alan Blinder, former vice chair of the Federal Reserve and member of President Bill Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors. Professor, thanks for joining us. So as we know, Jerome Powell is still in fact, as of right now, the Fed chair, despite a fake letter of resignation that Republican Senator Mike Lee and some MAGA influencers were circulating. Lee then deleted it from his social media today. Do you think that Fed Chair Powell should step down in order to preserve the independence of the Federal Reserve, as we just heard suggested?

29:26Definitely not. That gets it exactly backwards. The worst thing he could do from the point of view of preserving the independence of the Fed would be to step down for this reason. It's one thing if he has a health problem or something like that, but he doesn't. He's very fit and perfectly capable to keep on going. And if he quits now under this kind of pressure, there goes the independence of the Fed. As you know, the decision to cut interest rates is not on Jerome Powell or any Fed chair alone. It belongs to the Federal Open Market Committee. Do you think the president has reason to believe that the committee would be more open to lowering interest rates without Powell in the picture?

30:12No, I actually think the opposite. I think if he actually would manage to fire Powell, which is probably illegal and he can't do it, but suppose that it happened, there would be such a reaction on the Federal Open Market Committee that it would be harder and harder to get them to cut interest rates. And as you know, he has said that he probably they probably would have voted to lower interest rates if it weren't for the instability created by President Trump's tariffs. The committee's meeting next week, Powell said after the last meeting, the door was still open for a rate cut later this year, depending on economic conditions surrounding global trade.

30:49Do you think we could see interest rates fall next week or do you think it's more likely to be in September? I think next week would be a very big surprise. Given this flare-up right now, a really, really big surprise. I think it comes later, if indeed it comes this year. It's a reasonable bet that it'll come sometime this year, but not next week. Do you think President Trump's push for interest rates to be lower and his continued attacks on the Fed chair actually works against what he wants? In other words, is there anything in being on the Federal Reserve where a president is jawboning and insulting you and in order to show that you are independent, you actually don't do what he's saying?

31:32I think that's right. A little bit. I mean, mainly Powell and his committee members are going to do what they think is right for the economy. But at the margin, rather than look like they're getting bullied by the White House when they shouldn't be, they may stiffen their backs a bit. Yeah, we're all human after all. Trump's push to lower interest rates comes weeks after he signed that domestic economic bill into law, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. On July 4th, the Congressional Budget Office finds that this final legislation could add more than$3 trillion to the deficit over the next decade by continuing the tax cuts and such.

32:11Will lowering interest rates help ease some of the economic strain that might hit the government budget over the next decade? Or does the U.S. need to be doing much more?

32:22I think it's the opposite. I think what's happened in this beautiful, beautiful, I laugh, bill is mainly raising the annual deficits. And that tends to push interest rates up. I don't want to exaggerate it. It's not going to push them up into the stratosphere. but at the margin it's pushing interest rates up, not down. All right, Professor Alan Blinder, thank you so much. Appreciate it, sir. You're welcome. Did President Trump just reveal a side deal in his$16 million settlement with CBS and Paramount? What else Trump says he's getting in that exchange? That's next.

33:06In our politics lead, a follow now to a story we've been covering for months. the many ways CBS and Paramount and Skydance are trying to win over President Trump so they can get their lucrative merger approved by his administration. President Trump announcing on social media that today Paramount, which owns CBS, paid the$16 million settlement that they reached with the president earlier this month for his lawsuit against CBS News in what many thought was a frivolous lawsuit. But according to Trump, that was only one part of the settlement. He went on to claim that, quote, we also anticipate receiving$20 million more from the new owners in advertising, PSAs or similar programming for a total of over$36 million, unquote.

33:50Key words in that post, new owners, because Paramount has previously denied media reports claiming that there was more to the deal than publicly announced. going as far to say on the record that, quote, Paramount has no knowledge of any promises or commitments made to President Trump other than those set forth in the settlement proposed by the mediator and accepted by the parties, unquote. This does suggest that Trump's team is having side conversations, not with the company or the people he was suing, 60 Minutes, CBS News, CBS Paramount, but with people at Skydance, the company that could soon own them.

34:26And Trump's announcement comes as Stephen Colbert hosted the first episode of his late night show since CBS announced it was canceling his program, a decision President Trump also celebrated. Colbert didn't hold back during his monologue. Over the weekend, somebody at CBS followed up their gracious press release with a gracious anonymous leak saying they pulled the plug on our show because of losses pegged between 40 million and 50 million dollars a year. 40 million is a big number. I could see us losing $24 million, but where would Paramount have possibly spent the other$16 million? Oh, yeah.

35:03Colbert is far from the only pissed-off comedian. His friends and late-night rivals joined the crowd in his show last night for a sketch. There you see some of them in the audience. There's Adam Sandler and others. Jon Stewart said this on his own program. The fact that CBS didn't try to save their number one rated network late night franchise that's been on the air for over three decades is part of what's making everybody wonder, was this purely financial? Or maybe the path of least resistance for your$8 billion merger. And if you believe as corporations or as networks, you can make yourselves so innocuous that you can serve a gruel so flavorless that you will never again be on the Boy King's radar?

35:54A, why will anyone watch you and you are f***ing wrong? CNN has reached out to Skydance for comment on Trump's latest post. The company has not yet responded. Why the Chinese government is blocking a Wells Fargo banker from leaving the country. Plus, this just in a response from attorneys for Ghislaine Maxwell. Their response to the request from the Justice Department to get more information publicly released in the Epstein saga. We'll bring that to you in minutes.

36:26In our world lead, a second American has been barred from leaving China. Chinese authorities say an Atlanta-based banker working for Wells Fargo is involved in a criminal case, and that's why exit restrictions have been imposed. It's not clear whom the target of the criminal case is, nor how the Wells Fargo employee is believed to be linked to it. This after an American working for the Commerce Department was also denied exit after failing to disclose in his visa application that he worked for the U.S. government. CNN's Mark Stewart is in a very foggy or smoggy Beijing. Just trying to explain that background there.

36:59Mark, you've spent a lot of time in China covering business. What is the feeling you're getting on the ground in Beijing to all of this? You know, Jake, it's just about six o 'clock in the morning here in Beijing. And I think it is safe to say there's a feeling of anxiety. There's anxiety whenever something like this happens. I heard from an American businessman here in Beijing on the ground who expressed concern about all of this for foreign workers who are here doing work on a long term basis, but also in the short term. But the fact of the matter is this. China is the world's second largest economy.

37:39There are more than a billion people here. American companies, foreign firms, they want to do business here. The Chinese government wants those foreign dollars. And that's why we have seen CEOs such as Tim Cook from Apple make trips here. We have seen Jensen Huang, the CEO of NVIDIA. He was here just last week. This is a very important market for American companies, but also global companies. But as this business person told me, if people are afraid to come to China investment, this this forward thinking of foreign dollars, that's all going to fail, Jake. And Mark, let's talk about the timing of this.

38:17Why is this happening right in the middle of these discussions, these tariff negotiations? Right. That's a good question. I think that perhaps this could be seen as leverage, but it may not be so calculated. The point is, is that even though there are discussions taking place, even though there is hope of a Xi-Trump summit, it goes to show that in China, no matter what's happening at the top level, it doesn't always filter down to the bottom. And that may be some of the disconnect that we're seeing here. All right. Mark Stewart in Beijing. Thanks so much. A response just in from attorneys for Ghislaine Maxwell, the once girlfriend and associate of pedophile and sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein.

38:59Her attorneys are weighing in on the Trump Justice Department's efforts to get some grand jury transcripts publicly released. The CNN Justice team will have that story next.

39:15This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom, Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com.

39:47Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. this hour, will she talk? The Justice Department says that they want to meet with Ghislaine Maxwell, the once girlfriend and associate of pedophile sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. And moments ago, her legal team confirmed they have been in contact with Justice Department officials today. So what do they have to say? Is she going to really cooperate with the government? Plus, he tried to come to the U.S. legally to open a beauty salon, but Andre Jose Hernandez Romero was detained during the Biden administration, and he was deported to El Salvador's notorious mega prison during the Trump administration.

40:20What we're learning about his case today. Also, Americans drink more coffee than any other beverage. Yum, yum. So how is President Trump's threat for massive tariffs on Brazilian coffee impacting restaurants and cafes here in the United States? We'll find out in our Small Business series. And Ozzy Osbourne, the godfather of heavy metal, has died at the age of 76 just weeks after performing with Black Sabbath in a farewell show. We're going to take a look back at his legendary music career.

40:53Late tonight, new twists in the Justice Department's efforts to unseal some grand jury transcripts related to the Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell case, including those in the trial of his former associate and girlfriend, Maxwell. This afternoon, Maxwell's attorneys told the New York judge overseeing the case they want to review the grand jury transcripts themselves. They say they haven't even seen all of them themselves. And apparently even spoke with the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, about it today, adding in their letter, quote, he has no objection to our application. Now, earlier today, Blanche said he wants to meet with Ghislaine Maxwell in prison.

41:28And today, Trump appeared to downplay such an idea. I don't know about it, but I think it's something that would be, sounds appropriate to do. I didn't know that they were going to do it. I don't really follow that too much. It's sort of a witch hunt, just a continuation of the witch hunt. The witch hunt that you should be talking about is they caught President Obama. Anyway, CNN's Paula Reid joins us now. And Paula, tell us more about this. Look, Jake, another day, another effort by the Trump Justice Department to appease those who are accusing them of not doing enough related to Epstein. Now here the Deputy Attorney General of the United States, this is the number two official at the Justice Department, has reached out to Maxwell's lawyers to ask, quote, what do you know?

42:18Now I would guess that some of President Trump's sort of the lack of enthusiasm you heard there is partially informed by the fact that he knows, everybody knows, that this is a woman that if she had some bombshell, the time to bring that up with the Justice Department would have been before she was charged and faces 20 years in prison. it's before your case goes to court. That's when you want to share what you know and strike a deal. This is someone who has long denied wrongdoing and has had credibility issues. So while President Trump does have some things to offer, he is pardon power. He could commute her sentence.

42:53This is also a landmine for the president because this is likely a woman that has some information, may not be criminally related, but some information about Trump's relationship with Epstein. And what's interesting is she is the one who compiled that book that reportedly included a letter from President Trump, that Wall Street Journal report last week. So I heard your guests say in the last hour that they thought it was really weird that the deputy attorney general was handling this, doing this outreach. I agree. It is certainly not the normal way you would handle outreach like this. But remember, Todd Blanche is also Trump's personal attorney.

43:28I've covered Trump's legal issues for about a decade now, Jake. And I can say if all the lawyers Trump has ever had. I think Todd Blanche has done the best job of sort of navigating thorny issues where his former client faces potential risks. So it does not surprise me that he's handling this. Paula, what are the judges saying about the request to unseal the pertinent grand jury material? So this is moving along pretty quickly here. Last week, of course, the Justice Department asked to unseal this. We expected that the judge would ask for any relevant parties, anyone who has a stake in this to weigh in.

44:02Here they've asked the Justice Department to give them the material by next Tuesday. Then they gave Maxwell's lawyers until August 5th to weigh in. If they support this, we expect that Maxwell's lawyers will actually oppose. They're also giving the opportunity to victims to state their positions. So nothing immediate, but this is moving quickly. And look, no matter what happens, we have this request for Maxwell, this request for grand jury information. We know that none of this is likely going to silence the questions that continue to be asked of this Justice Department about why they are not releasing more of the material in their own possession that has not been public yet.

44:39All right, Paula Reed, thanks so much. Joining us now, former Trump White House lawyer Jim Schultz. Jim, good to see you. So if you were a lawyer for Ghislaine Maxwell, would you advise her to cooperate with the Trump administration with the Justice Department? That's going to require, you know, me having known facts and other things that I don't know. But here's what we do know. We know that the courts are now involved. As we said on the last show, Jake, that's the most important thing here. They are the protector of this information, not the Justice Department. If it is grand jury information that they are seeking to release or seeking to use or seeking to make public, the court needs to weigh that.

45:19Victims first. Victims of the first consideration. And also the grand jury secrecy part. There's a reason why grand juries are done in secret. It's to have witnesses come forward so that they believe there's not going to be retribution. They feel like they could speak truthfully. They feel that it's done in secret. If that, courts are going to be very reticent to blow through the grand jury secrecy piece of this without a real compelling reason to do so. So I really believe that the that the government coming forward and asking for this, they're doing the court is doing all the right things. They're asking Jazeme Maxwell's lawyers.

45:54They're asking witnesses to come forward because all of those things and the grand jury secrecy piece are all going to be weighed in making that determination. And we know the grand jury testimony, if it is unsealed, let's assume with the victim's names redacted, it's still only a very small portion of evidence. The Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said he's just requesting to meet with Maxwell, and if that meeting happens, there's going to be no guarantee that that meeting will be made public or even if she'll cooperate. Do you think these Justice Department efforts are as vigorous as they should be if one is actually trying to get as much information released as possible?

46:30Well, if you have the Deputy Attorney General, certainly the number two person in the Justice Department, asking for this, and we heard from numerous people saying this is somewhat unorthodox that the deputy attorney general is doing this. It also brings the power of the deputy attorney general, which signifies the importance of this issue to the Justice Department. So as far as resources go, he's going to have everything he needs to go after those documents and petition the court and make the arguments he needs to make. But it's not going to be for, you know, the court is just going to say, hey, yes, let's release this for purposes of, of releasing information to public because the press or someone's curious.

47:10There's going to have to be a legal reason to do it in order to kind of waive those grand jury secrecy rules in order to allow this information to become public. And Congress, they can subpoena folks all they want, but those documents don't leave the Justice Department unless the court says they do. So the real issue here is that there is information out there about other people who are part of this conspiracy, whether it is employees of Epstein and Maxwell who weren't charged with anything. And just to remind everybody, only two people have ever been charged, Maxwell and Epstein, or the men who allegedly took advantage of these sexual trafficking victims that Epstein trafficked in.

47:53Now, there are lots of names out there, like in these private files, in the Epstein files, of men who have not been charged with anything. Now, maybe they were charged because there was not a prosecutable case. Maybe they were charged because prosecutors thought it's it's prostitutes testifying against them. I'm not going to be able to get a conviction if we have these high priced, fancy attorneys defending these rich men. Or maybe they didn't do anything. How do you think this should be handled with these names of other people, unindicted people? If there is information, the reason why I just say Maxwell's lawyers want this information was because the charging that took place with respect to Jeffrey Epstein, her lawyers didn't have access to that information.

48:42They had information relative to her case when she was charged, but not his case when he was charged. So she wants that. They want that information for that benefit as well. If the Justice Department wants to have this information to be able to use it, They should be using it for the purposes of prosecuting folks who committed crimes. That's what the Justice Department does. It prosecutes people who commit crimes. If people committed crimes and they feel like they have a case to bring and they can put that maybe, you know, start new grand jury proceedings, begin further, go through further investigations.

49:16Remember, this case dated back long before there was any charged charging in this. Were there any federal charging in this case? They took some of the stale, what was stale information and built that case against Jeffrey Epstein over time. And, you know, that that had, you know, so that he would be charged federally. I think that's what they need to look at is are there crimes that were committed that weren't charged or weren't prosecuted back when Epstein was charged and not prosecuted because he he he died in jail, in prison. Jim Schultz, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Our panel's with me now.

49:52Thanks, guys, for being here. Mike, do you think this push to... I just knew he was going to... Well, I'm going to come to you first because it's a Republican president and Mike is a Republican and worked for Trump. The push to talk to Maxwell. Yes. Isn't that an admission that the Justice Department didn't actually do everything they could in terms of due diligence before they put out that memo two and a half weeks ago saying nothing to see here, folks? No, I don't think so because, you know, the Biden Justice Department could have done the exact same thing previously. I don't think this is an admission that they didn't do enough.

50:25I think that this is more of a admission that this issue is not going to go away. We need to find a direction in which we can go to uncover some information that is releasable. And if it's coming from Maxwell, as opposed to these binders that who knows what information was in these binders, that is a that is a you know politically that's a smart move by this White House they're finally starting to make moves to release some information to satisfy not only their base but the curiosity of it seems like 90 percent of America yeah Karen House Speaker Mike Johnson railed on Democrats today for not being intellectually consistent when it comes to the Epstein case take a listen Go back and look at their social media accounts we have and their public comments.

51:18They had exactly zero post on the subject for the last four years of the Biden administration. Interesting, isn't it? We all understand that the America First agenda and the American people are best served by putting an end to the Democrats' sideshows. And that's what we're doing by not allowing the Rules Committee to continue with that nonsense this week. What do you make of that? That's absurd. The only reason that we are even talking about this is because Donald Trump has been trafficking in conspiracy theories. Epstein died in jail, however you believe that happened. Ghislaine Maxwell was in jail as of 2022.

51:55There she would be. She would remain. The only reason any of this is happening is because Trump has been trafficking in these conspiracy theories, promised to release the information, and then they botched the release of the information. And now what you're seeing, I mean, Trump must really be terrified. Let's throw all the best, you know, golden oldies out, right? It's Obama's fault. It's Hillary's fault. Let's release the files about MLK Jr. Like, I mean, who else is left to blame? And let's not forget, though, the grand jury testimony is not the files. It's a great misdirect, but it is not the files.

52:32And there are individuals who know exactly who the men were, and they're terrified. And those are the women who were trafficked, who were raped. I will give you every, I will give you the point that you made that this has been a topic that has been brought up during the campaign by Trump, by several members of the MAGA base. I'll also, hopefully, hopefully that you'll also recognize that Epstein was charged while Trump was president. But the Democrats here are making a very political move. To Speaker Johnson's point, they are picking up the politics of that. Hold up, though. You have to at least acknowledge that this is a political game that has been happening over the last couple of weeks.

53:20But let's acknowledge that Epstein, it was a ridiculous deal that he got in the first place. Back in 2008. Back in 2000. I mean, it was ridiculous. Yeah. Back in 2008, these women had been trying to come forward for years, and no one believed them. Again, finally, some modicum of justice. He has tried. He dies in prison. They get Ghislaine Maxwell. You're right, Jake. There are others who probably should have met justice. You know, guess what? There's politics in politics. And if you are going to stoke the base with crazy sauce, don't be surprised when you get some of that sauce on you. I'm not surprised.

54:00I'm just saying let's acknowledge the fact that we're now outside of, with all the empathy for the victims in this case. We are now in this political gotcha game that the Democrats are playing as well as the Republicans did prior to the campaign. The Democrats are now playing this post. And they're using, you know, again, they don't have a message to run on, but they've got the message of Donald Trump not coming clean the way that he said he was going to. And they're running that as far and as hard as they can. Well, we've been making the case that he is not keeping his word to the American people on a number of issues, like what's happening with inflation and the economy, like what's happening with tariffs, like what's happening with immigration.

54:45And guess what? There are other pockets. We've seen it in the polling. There are other pockets of Americans who agree with that. This is the first thing I will grant you that the MAGA base and your influencers and right wing media has. They're even saying they don't buy it. You're granting me that is all I really ask. Can I just say one thing? I just want to mention one thing, which is Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz from Florida has been pushing this bill that would require that all victims of these kinds of crimes be alerted if there is a plea deal. That did not happen in 2008. That was kind of like a, it wasn't just a sweetheart deal, but it was done in secret, basically.

55:26And these victims were, and so I will, I just want to say there's one Democrat I can say who actually was talking about one aspect of it. But I totally take your point. House Democrats have not been talking about this. Senate Democrats have not. But why would we have when she's in jail? I mean, it sort of was like case closed. He's dead. She's in jail. Because of all the slimy men that were part of taking advantage of these poor traffic girls and women. Which could or could not have included Bill Clinton. OK, great. Let's see. Could or could not have included any number of high profile Democrats, Republicans.

55:55And you know what? They should all. May they all rot in hell if they assaulted women. You know what? I think we all agree on that. Let's just end on that, Karen. And girls, even more so. Yes, well, they were girls at the time. That's another level of hell. Yeah, absolutely. Down even one more level. Mike Dubke, Karen Finney, we all come together. See? In our anger and hatred towards these traffickers. Republicans in Texas are moving forward with President Trump's plans for his party to try to stay in power in the midterms by picking up some more House Republican seats in Texas. How will Democrats respond?

56:27Is there anything they can do? I'll ask a Democrat on the Oversight Committee. That's next.

56:36In our politics lead, House Democrats are plotting a counterpunch to President Trump's redistricting power push in Texas, where Texas state legislatures are currently looking at redrawing their congressional maps to try to increase the number of House Republicans in the House of Representatives. Joining us now to discuss how Democrats are preparing against Republicans in next year's midterm battle, Congressman Robert Garcia, Democrat of California. Congressman, good to see you. Sources tell CNN the Democrats are already exploring plans to redistrict in California, your home state, Washington state, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York.

57:11So are you on board with the strategy of Democrats throwing out any sort of nonpartisan redistricting commissions? And Democrats are now in on the plan for no holds barred, partisan redistricting, like a lot of Republican states are doing from now on? I absolutely support the governor in this effort, and I think that this is the right approach, and here's why. We have to ensure that we are playing on the same field as Republicans when it comes to redistricting. In the past, I've been a supporter of our independent commission in California. It has produced, I think, generally fair districts, certainly not perfect.

57:48But if Republicans are going to actually do this whole gerrymandering process, they're going to go in, they're going to pull apart maps, They're going to actually force additional districts and they're going to gerrymander. I think Democrats have to also be smart about doing the exact same thing. So they now want to take and strengthen their control of the House and go to state by state, not just in Texas. As we know, it's Ohio, which other places they already did it in North Carolina. And Democrats are supposed to just sit back and watch it all happen. It's not acceptable. And so I think this effort by Governor Newsom to explore if we can do the same thing in a way that's legal and supported by the public in California.

58:24I think is the right approach and we've got to be smart about it. Californians and our congressional delegation is actively talking about it. And so we're working with the governor and we'll see how it develops. But I imagine that over the course of the next couple of weeks, we'll have a lot more certainty of actually how we move forward. But as a general notion, if you could snap your fingers and all 50 states have nonpartisan redistricting commissions, you would you would prefer that? I would. Look, if we were all playing on the same exact field, we actually were going by the same rules, I would support that.

58:58Our two largest states, New York and California on the Democratic side, have commissions. The two largest states on the Republican side, Texas and Florida, do not. Clearly, we have tried to do the right thing. Democrats have tried to play by the rules, allow these nonpartisan commissions to do their work, while Republicans now instead are choosing to gerrymander and do whatever they can to hold on to power in a way that is, I believe, unfair broadly. And so what I would support is if we go in this direction, we should have some type of trigger where California should say, if and when Texas and or Florida choose to also put in a nonpartisan commission, we'll snap back to ours and go back to an independent commission.

59:38But until then, we cannot have the spite with our hands tied to hand or back. We've got to explore this work ahead. Let's change the subject because Because you've been following an important deportation case. The gentleman's name is Andre Jose Hernandez Romero. He is a Venezuelan makeup artist. He tried to come to the United States legally in hopes of opening a beauty salon here, but he was detained at a port of entry last August by the Biden administration. He was applying for asylum. His family says he faced harassment in Venezuela for being openly gay, and that made him a target. He was detained, though, during the Biden administration.

1:00:12He was linked to the Trendy Aragua criminal gang because of his tattoos, whether or not that's true or not. He was ultimately deported by the Trump administration, however, to El Salvador's mega prison in March. Then Friday, his lawyers say he's back in Venezuela. Now, you've been in touch with Hernandez-Ramirez's legal team. What are they telling you about his situation, and what are they telling you about his well-being? Yeah, I mean, first, he's healthy, he's alive, which is the most important thing. We had not seen actually proof of life since he was actually taken. When I was in El Salvador and I talked to the ambassador about Andri's case, you know, he was also unaware of his case.

1:00:49And so it's one that we've tried to uplift because people need to understand that this is someone who we invited to have an asylum appointment here at the border. He comes to his appointment that we gave him and then, of course, is detained and eventually deported to El Salvador into an infamous prison in a country he knows nothing about. And so we've been pushing to ensure that we got some type of check that he was actually alive. We now know that he's alive. He's been reunited with his family. His legal team has been in touch with his family. I know myself and others, I'm hoping to connect hopefully with him directly in the days ahead.

1:01:26He has been through some horrific conditions, as we are aware. And I think what's important right now, the legal team is working with him to ensure that we do what he wants moving forward. We're not sure if that's trying to reapply through the asylum process, whether it's him wanting to stay in Venezuela, whether he wants to be in another, a third country and apply for asylum there. But the important thing is that we follow his lead. He's been through an incredibly traumatic few months. And that right now is top of mind for us in making sure that he's okay. I mean, I'm just thinking about the worst possible things that happen in a notorious prison, especially to an openly gay makeup artist, is he physically all right?

1:02:10He has already said publicly in Venezuela that he did suffer abuse. The extent of that abuse, we are not fully aware of yet. I think we all can imagine the horrors that he has been through. I'll tell you, his family has described him to us as someone very gentle and very sweet. and it's just, it's sick what he had to go through. And so right now, I think his family's really focused and his legal team on his health. He is alive, he is speaking, he is presenting healthy. But of course, the trauma and everything else is all being dealt with and discussed right now. And so we wanna make sure he's healthy first and that we will be there to provide any additional support or protection considering we were the ones, the United States, that actually invited him to this actual appointment.

1:03:01Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California, thank you so much for your time, and I really appreciate it. Thank you. From cancer research to stroke studies, one analysis finds that Trump's fight with Harvard could put tens of millions of dollars of medical research on the chopping block in the name of combating anti-Semitism. We're digging into these potential impacts next.

1:03:29This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. For 125 years, Nordstrom has been part of your story. The stylist who found the perfect outfit for your big interview. The first pair of walking shoes for your one-year-old. The tomato soup you shared with your sister at the cafe. These are the moments that make Nordstrom, Nordstrom. Big or small, we're here for all of it. Celebrating 125 years with new moments still add. Discover it all in Nordstrom stores and at Nordstrom.com. In our national lead, President Trump is railing against the judge overseeing Harvard University's case against the Trump administration.

1:04:07Harvard wants to restore more than$2 billion in already allocated federal funding after the administration says Harvard let anti-Semitism fester and run amok after the October 7th attacks in Israel by Hamas. The administration froze more than$2 billion in grants at Harvard, including$198 million dollars for cancer research,$158 million for neurological disorders and strokes research, and$715 million for allergy and infectious disease research, according to the New York Times. Dr. Loren Walensky runs the Harvard-MIT MD-PhD program, which relies on federal aid. Dr. Walensky, thanks for joining us.

1:04:43Can you talk about how this funding freeze has affected your program? Well, first I have to say that when you think about what's happening right now, Now, this is really something that affects the entire nation, because when you cut off funding to scientists and doctors and scientists and doctors in training who are working every day, 24-7 to try to cure the diseases of the American public, you're talking about a major slowdown. And so it affects everything that's happening both here and in other universities that are trying to make a difference for Americans. And that's what this is really all about, stopping and freezing funding and putting, you know, some of America's top scientists and physicians coming to work essentially with their hands behind their back because they don't have the funding that they rely on to deliver the goods for the American people, which is the cures for their currently incurable diseases.

1:05:35So the Harvard, MIT, MD, PhD program, it's world renowned. you're training the next generation of physicians and scientists. What impact might this freeze have on science and research? Well, you know, first of all, you have to think about what these students are here to do. They are here to learn how to take care of patients. Then they go in to see those patients, identify the problems that are not solvable. Then they go back to the laboratory in their graduate research homes. And those laboratories, they are working day and night to come up with cures. Now, those laboratories rely on federal funding to not only hire them, pay for them, enable them to order reagents to do their experiments.

1:06:14When you shut that down, you have an immediate freeze and contraction of this work. And the goal of those students is to then learn from all this and bring it back to the hospital, bring it back to the clinic and the doctor's offices so that they can make Americans healthier and live longer. And so when you shut this money off, you're not only getting rid of the research and slowing it down, if not halting it, but you're also demoralizing the next generation of brilliant scientists and doctors who are committed to doing this job for their entire lives and careers to help people live longer and healthier lives.

1:06:45Well, let's talk about the next generation of scientists and doctors. How have they been affected by the cuts? Have they lost scholarships? Absolutely. So our MD-PhD program lost in one day$9.4 million for training. That's 210 students who rely on those funds to attend and train. And they come from all over the United States, from every single country in America. And they are coming here to learn how to be doctors and scientists. And so we lost two of our major grants for scholarship and 32 individual scholarship grants that are, and I should say not gifts. These grants are incredibly hard-earned.

1:07:22These students have to apply and compete with every other student in America at the NIH through very rigorous peer review. And then when they win these grants, you're talking about the top 5 % of folks that apply for these grants actually win and earn them. And then their job is a contract with America to go and do those proposals. Those are hard-earned proposals that they worked so hard to win. It's like taking a gold medal away from someone who's trained their whole life to be an Olympian. Dr. Walensky, let me say, just as an observer, I was pretty shocked by some of the anti-Semitic acts that I saw covered on the Harvard campus after October 7th.

1:08:02And it does seem as though some of that was not taken very seriously by the former administration. You're Jewish. I assume that you shared my view of anti-Semitism on campus in general. Do you think that what the Trump administration is doing is an effective way to combat it and to get Harvard to take it more seriously, cutting these grants? Well, first of all, I think Harvard has taken it very seriously. I think institutions and universities all over the country have taken this very seriously because their job is to protect their student body. And so Harvard has addressed this. They've addressed it publicly.

1:08:38But I think this has absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing today, which is trying to find cures for Americans who are desperately in need of them, people that are suffering from strokes and heart attacks and cancer and Alzheimer's disease, every disease under the sun that we're working on here to try to cure. You ask those patients waiting for the cures from us what this has to do with anti-Semitism. It has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. We're here working day and night to try to help people live longer, healthier and happier lives. And we really don't see the connection. And I think these things are being conflated.

1:09:09And we have to really kind of have a reality check, wake up and realize that what really matters here. And what's really suffering is that the American people are not going to be getting the cures that they are relying on so that they can be living happy, healthy and long lives. Dr. Lauren Walensky, thank you so much. Appreciate your time, sir. Thank you. We have some breaking news in our Law and Justice League. Today, federal judges decided time's up for former Trump campaign spokesperson Alina Haba, who had been serving as the interim U.S. attorney in New Jersey. This afternoon, Attorney General Pam Bondi slammed the, quote, politically minded judges.

1:09:44Then in the same breath, she fired the new interim U.S. attorney, only a few hours on the job. CNN senior legal analyst and New Jersey resident Ellie Honix here. Ellie, how rare is a move like this by the judge panel? Well, it's extremely rare, Jake. I can't think of another example in recent DOJ history. So U.S. attorneys are typically nominated by the president, confirmed by the Senate. One of the ways to fill a vacancy if you don't have a fully nominated and confirmed U.S. attorney is federal law says the attorney general can appoint an interim U.S. attorney, but that person can only hold that seat for 120 days.

1:10:21So that's what happened here. Pam Bondi appointed Alina Habba under that law. Today was the 120th day. And what happens then is it goes to a vote of the federal district court judges, the trial level judges in that district. There are 17 of them in the District of New Jersey, 17 active judges. And in every instance I can think of off the top of my head, the judges have simply adopted the person who the AG put in that spot. In fact, if you look back at the first Trump turn, the person who was put in this spot by the attorney general, the Trump administration's pick, came up to his 120th days and the judges approved that person.

1:10:57So this is extremely unusual. I should say, though, Alina Haba can still be nominated by Donald Trump and confirmed by the Senate. But for the time being, she is out as the head of that office. All right, Elie Honig, thanks so much. Coming up, amid the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, aid groups and global news agencies are considering leaving the besieged strip. Our next guest knows exactly how this lack of aid is affecting the most vulnerable children.

1:11:28Our world lead takes us to Gaza, where at least 15 people, including four children, have starved to death since yesterday, according to the Palestinian-run health ministry, which is controlled by Hamas, which the U.S. considers a terrorist group. As Israeli tanks rolled into the central Gazan city of Darabala for the first time since the war began, according to Israeli media reports, the central location for aid groups such as the World Health Organization. Joining us now, Arwa Damon, the president and founder of Inara, which provides medical and mental health assistance to children in war zones.

1:12:00She's also a former CNN senior international correspondent. Arwa, it's so good to see you again. So the World Health Organization in Gaza says male staffers in Daryl Bala were, quote, handcuffed, stripped, and interrogated by Israel's military on Monday after strikes damaged the main World Health Organization warehouse. Israel's military tells CNN they were looking for terrorists and treated people in accordance with international law. What are you hearing from aid workers on the ground in central Gaza about how difficult this job is? Jake, it's impossible. I mean, to get anything done in Gaza right now is like trying to jump through mental hoops and all sorts of obstacles that one cannot even really begin to describe or comprehend.

1:12:45When it comes to what happened at the WHO site, they basically had a number of their staff and their families who were sheltering at that site because of the evacuation order for huge parts of Deir el-Balaj. And that is when the location, which was de-conflicted, by the way, was first initially hit in an airstrike. And then the IDF forces entered. As far as we know, right now one of their staff is still being detained by the IDF and they put out a press release saying that the men were stripped down, that they were searched and that the women and children were led away at gunpoint. Look, we've had staff that, you know, had to evacuate their homes because of the evacuation orders that came down in Del Barak as well.

1:13:28And a number of other aid organizations have had to relocate. So it just further cripples our capacity to be able to operate, which has already been significantly crippled. You posted a video showing a family struggling to feed and care for their children and talked about how your children's trying to help them. The infants have horrible rashes. They don't have enough formula. Another kid had lice. Let's show part of your video. One of the boys tells Yusta, our program coordinator, that it's his birthday the next day. And his mother says he asked her for bread on his birthday. Not a cake, just bread.

1:14:07And then do you know what happens? Yusra returns on her own time. Yusra returned and gave him some bread. Why did you feel it important to spotlight this story in particular? You know, Jake, because in so many cases, a lot of what we see is the pain and the agony that, you know, Palestinians in Gaza are going through and rightfully so. But what we don't see often enough of are these small moments of humanity that exist every single day. And I saw this numerous times on the four trips that I made into Gaza since October 7th before Israel decided to deny me entry. And you really do get this great sense that no matter what, no matter how hard things are for people there, they still do continue to look out for each other, to try to create small moments of joy for each other whenever they can and however they can.

1:15:02Agence France-Presse, AFP, one of the world's largest news agencies, says that they're trying to evacuate their remaining freelance staff from Gaza because the situation, they say, has become untenable. It's already incredibly difficult, of course, if not impossible, to report from the ground in Gaza for most news organizations because, obviously, it's a war zone. It's so dangerous. But now they're talking about the struggle to get food as one of the reasons. What did you make of that when you heard that? you know this is one of the many reasons why a lot of you know individuals and and other journalists are saying this is why you need to let the the rest of the media into gaza because the pressure on palestinian journalists has been enormous and look they're struggling just like the rest of the population they are hungry even they and those who are making a salary My staff who are making a salary cannot always find enough food to actually be able to feed themselves and their families.

1:16:01I get messages from friends who are doctors, from our own staff as well, who are just messaging saying, I'm hungry. And you don't really know how to respond to that because there is no logical response to that. Arwa Damon, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

1:16:22And we'll be right back.

1:16:29It's time for our Business Leaders series, where we hear from small business owners coast to coast about Trump's tariffs. Coffee shops are preparing for a potential 50, 5-0 percent tariff on Brazilian coffee. That's a threat President Trump made earlier this month. Nearly a third of the U.S. supply of coffee comes from Brazil. Brazil, Superior Coffee Roasting Company's founder and owner, Ron Koenig joins me. Now, Ron, how are you preparing your supply right now for the potential 50 % tariff? And I should note, full disclosure, I'm a huge coffee drinker. And I do happen to love coffee from outside the contiguous United States, whether Brazil or Jamaica or Hawaii.

1:17:14Well, and that's an indisputable fact that almost all coffee comes from outside the United States. And like you mentioned earlier, Brazil is the biggest player and provides about a third of the coffee to the United States. And with the United States being the largest consumer of coffee, there's kind of an inseparable relationship there. So this tariff is a big deal and will affect us certainly because we buy a lot of coffee from Brazil and use it in blends and such. So if this holds, then we have to start looking at alternatives. And when you're trying to find an alternative to the biggest producer, it's not easy.

1:17:58So what do you do? I mean, do you raise your prices? Have you had to raise your prices at all since the tariffs began in April? We have. We didn't want to be jumping out of the gates to do so. We kind of stayed in a bit of a holding pattern to see how things would develop. Back at the beginning of June, we did raise our prices about 16%. Coffee prices in general have gone up here since spring. And so really, that's covering basically just those costs, tariffs aside. So we're just waiting to see kind of what develops and what sort of ink dries on deals before we make our next move. You're also, we should note, in the town of Sault Ste.

1:18:47Marie, right near the Canadian border. Have the tariff wars with Canada impacted your business? So, yeah, we're in a bit of a unique situation where we have to consider the tariffs that are coming from our imports. But then we also export to stores and businesses in that both in the U.S. and in Canada. So we do cross-border trade. And that rate almost from the beginning has been a 25 % tariff on our imports of coffee into Canada. So it really makes it difficult to find a margin that will continue making that a solvent proposition. What do you want President Trump and lawmakers to know and understand about how small businesses such as yours are being impacted right now?

1:19:45Well, small businesses are the backbone of America. And with all of this up and down and tariff on, tariff off, rigmarole that's going on, it's really creating an unstable environment. And I think that a large part of the reason why business does so well and people want to come to the United States to start up business is because of the stability and the predictability of the business environment. And right now we do not have that. And so if there could be some stability, I understand that maybe there'll be some baseline tariffs and things like that. Some of it makes sense and some does not. but there's a lot of instability and that's just putting us in a holding pattern that does not allow us to grow does not let us you know move on like we need to the coffee shop is called superior coffee roasting company it's in sault saint marie michigan you can also buy their coffee on their website superior coffee company uh ron kernick thank you so much for joining us appreciate it sir it was my pleasure thanks jake the world lost an incredibly talented man today the godfather of heavy metal, Ozzy Osbourne, dead at the age of 76.

1:21:06We're going to take a look at his legacy next.

1:21:15Our pop culture lead now, rock and roll icon Ozzy Osbourne, has died at the age of 76. His family tells CNN, quote, our beloved Ozzy Osbourne has passed away this morning. He was with his family and surrounded by love, best known to music fans as the godfather of metal and the prince of darkness as the frontman for black sabbath osborne had an encore as a reality tv superstar along with his wife sharon and two children in the popular and emmy award winning show the osborne's now in addition to his open struggle with alcohol and substance abuse osborne also had parkinson's disease it did not keep him from performing earlier this month he reunited with black sabbath which the band called his final bow in 2022 osborne reflected on his many accomplishments.

1:22:02I've met some amazing people. I've had some great experiences, both good and bad. I wouldn't change anything. It wouldn't change anything. Ozzy Osbourne, may his memory be a blessing. Aaron Burnett, Out Front, starts right now.

1:22:28Go inside the sports moments that brought us together and made history. From the underdogs to the rivalries and the miracles. It sends chills down your spine. It's what sport was all about. The new CNN original series, Decades in Sports. Now streaming on the CNN app.