TX Gov Orders Arrest Of Absent Democratic Lawmakers

23:14There was a prison transfer for Ghislaine Maxwell last Friday, moved from a facility in Florida to to a lower security prison camp in Texas. It's now Monday. I don't get the sense we have any idea who ordered the move or why. Is that fair? That is fair. That is still an open question. It does on its face look like a favor done for someone who has these victims point out as a convicted sex trafficker. That's part of why they're frustrated here. She's obviously helped the Justice Department in their effort to quell this political firestorm through a series of moves that really don't get to the bigger issue, which is the fact that they hold an enormous amount of information that has never been released to the public, that the attorney general has the power to release with redactions.

23:56They've, again, they've gone down to Florida, had this meeting with Glenn Maxwell. They're asking for the grand jury transcripts. She cooperated in that. And at this point, Phil, we just don't know. Was that a reward for her cooperation? Is that a symbol of something more to come, potentially a pardon, a commutation? The question there is, if you really do business with someone like this, this is not only going to result in more blowback from victims, but outrage from the people who are asking for transparency to make sure that the perpetrators at the center of this are all held accountable. Yeah, it's a remarkable position.

24:31Great reporting as always. Paul Reed, thanks so much. Well, more news coming from the CNN justice team because they never stop. Attorney General Pam Bondi is launching an investigation into members of the Obama administration and allegations of manufactured intelligence about Russia's 2016 election interference. That story next.

24:52We're back with more breaking news in our Law and Justice Lead, a source telling CNN that Attorney General Pam Bondi has directed federal prosecutors to launch a grand jury investigation into accusations that Obama officials manufactured intelligence about Russia's 2016 election interference. A grand jury could issue subpoenas or even pursue a potential indictment as part of a criminal investigation into allegations that Democratic officials tried to smear Donald Trump during his 2016 campaign by falsely alleging his campaign was colluding with the Russian government. This follows a recent move from Trump's Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard.

25:28She declassified documents that she alleged undermine the Obama administration's conclusion that Russia tried to help Trump defeat Hillary Clinton. Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst, Ellie Honig. Ellie, what do prosecutors need to start or set up here? What's the process? Yeah, Phil, so look, this is a big step forward because now we've moved from beyond the stage of reports and referrals and political statements into what appears to be an actual criminal investigation by the Justice Department. Now, traditionally, and I can't necessarily vouch or speak for this particular Justice Department because they've defied a lot of norms.

26:05But traditionally, the burden to open a grand jury investigation is fairly low. It's not nothing. As a prosecutor, you have to have some basis to believe that a federal crime may have been committed. But Phil, now that there is a grand jury convened, that gives DOJ prosecutors enormous investigative powers. You already mentioned the two major things that grand juries can do. Number one is investigate. They can issue subpoenas. These are criminal subpoenas. They're essentially mandatory. you can challenge them, but they're typically upheld by courts. You can subpoena witnesses who will have to come in and give testimony in the grand jury.

26:39And then the second thing grand jurors can do, and we're down the line here, is ultimately vote to indict. That's how federal prosecutors obtain indictments. The burden is simply that you have to show probable cause that a crime was committed. It's a much lower burden than in order to show someone's guilt. So this is a major step forward in this investigation, potentially quite a precipitous one as well. What do you think the likelihood of an indictment of somebody that maybe is well known to the American public would be in a situation like this? Gosh, I have read Tulsi Gabbard's summaries and reports really carefully.

27:13I've tried to make sense of this, and I am not comprehending where the criminal theory comes in at all, frankly. Tulsi Gabbard's theory, which this started with a referral from Tulsi Gabbard over to DOJ, is essentially that Barack Obama or some of his officials were involved in falsifying intelligence around the 2016 election. But when you look at what the actual facts are, that simply does not appear to be true. The intelligence estimate at the time was that Russia was attempting to interfere in the 2016 election in Trump's benefit, and that they did that through persuasion, through taking out Facebook ads and that kind of thing.

27:51But the intelligence also showed there was no criminal conspiracy between Donald Trump and the Russians, and that there was no actual hacking to switch over votes in the systems. That intelligence has since been confirmed by the Senate Intelligence Committee, Republican-led, by DOJ itself through their inspector general. So I'm not quite sure where I see, A, a discrepancy there. Never mind, B, Phil, a federal crime. I mean, we've heard terms like seditious conspiracy and treason. I'm not seeing anything close to that. And finally, Phil, I do have to note, all of this conduct would date back to 2016.

28:23Here we are nine years later. The statute of limitations on most federal crimes is going to be five years. So I'm skeptical, but look, this is going to happen largely behind closed doors and we'll see where it goes. Ellie Honig, always appreciate it, my friend. Thanks so much. With us now are CNN senior political commentators, Van Jones and Scott Jennings. Van, I want to start with you. Your reaction to the move here by the attorney general to move forward with a grand jury investigation. Stunning, terrifying, and a waste of time. Look, I was in the Obama administration. The administration ahead of us was George W.

28:56Bush's administration. The last stuff that they did that we didn't like or we would have done differently or we thought was awful. But we never tried to criminally prosecute anybody. And so this doesn't make a lot of sense. What is the crime here? Apparently, they don't like that Russia was trying to mess with our elections. But the Obama administration didn't say that they successfully did it, didn't say that Trump participated in it. They just said the truth, which a bipartisan Senate panel also said, which is the Russians tried to mess with our election. Now, Donald Trump has just not been able to let this go.

29:35He feels badly about it. But just because you feel badly about something or you don't like something the last administration did, doesn't mean somebody should go to prison. And if that happens, that's a completely different world that we're living in. But we came and figured out what is a criminal charge supposed to be here? Yeah, I would note, and it was a long time ago, and we're all getting older except for Scott, of course. I believe the Obama administration and Attorney General Eric Holder took a lot of heat for not pursuing criminal cases against people involved in allegations of torture when they came in from the Bush administration.

30:09Scott, what's your take on what we've seen transpire in the last couple hours? Well, I think we're downplaying what's been found. And, you know, with respect to my sparring partner here, Van, half the country and one entire political party has an article of faith that Russia stole the 2016 election. Now, how did they come to that conclusion? They came to that conclusion because high ranking Democrats, many of whom had intelligence titles that were bestowed upon them in the Obama administration, spent a lot of time and effort making an entire political party believe that. If you went to a Democratic fundraising dinner or political dinner tonight and got asked the question, did Russia steal the election?

30:48And you said no, you'd be booed off the stage. And so I think you're downplaying what has actually happened here. One party and half the country believes an election was stolen. And that did not happen by accident. There's evidence here. If it's as clean and mundane as you say, then these people ought to have nothing to worry about. But why shouldn't we look into it? The people who complain about misinformation and disinformation all the time, why does half the country believe something that didn't happen happened? Well, half the country believes a lot of dumb stuff, including a lot of dumb stuff that comes from Republicans.

31:20But nobody's trying to put anybody in prison over it. Listen, we live in a— They tried to put Donald Trump in jail, man. Hold on a second. They tried to put Donald Trump in jail over stuff that he actually got indicted for, but the country went ahead and reelected him anyway. Look, my point is this. It is, in fact, the case. People believe a lot of wacky stuff and nutty stuff in my party and in your party. That is very different from the Department of Justice saying they're going to put somebody in prison over it. That's a different world. We've not been in a world before. Listen, you served in the White House.

31:50I served in the White House. The idea you're going to somehow now go to jail because people misinterpreted what you did in there. I think this is very, very scary stuff, man. Scott. Look, I mean, we're obviously going to see this differently. And you you and I have agreed about many things regarding the last few years. But on this, my view is that it has become obvious that what happened as Donald Trump was coming in and Barack Obama was going on out bears some amount of investigation. And again, if you're right, all these people, you know, they should have nothing to worry about. But there's a lot of people out there that have looked at this and decided that, you know, intelligence was changed and ignored.

32:31And there were career people in the intelligence services saying we can't use the Steele dossier and so on and so forth. So where, you know, at some point people are just asking, how do you get accountability? Why does half the country believe Russia stole an election? Where is the accountability for that? Did people abuse their positions? You know, did they perjure themselves? Did they willfully mislead the American people? How do you get accountability for it? That's the question here. Scott, can I ask you, in your eyes, is this would be the final judgment on that? It wasn't the Durham report.

33:00It wasn't the Senate Intelligence Committee run by Marco Rubio report. It wasn't the House and Senate efforts in the last six, seven years to look into this. This is the final one after this? You'll believe whatever it is? well i mean i would i would think so i mean typically uh an investigation like this from the justice system would be the end of the line i mean you'll find out whether anybody did commit criminal acts or not and again i don't know whether they did or they didn't and so if van is right and everything was above board and this was all just mundane policy differences then i don't know why anybody would be worried about having their actions scrutinized it seems to me that a hit dog hollers and right now the hit dogs are hollering and i just i'm just telling you enough has come forward for Republicans to believe that this bears a little bit more investigation.

33:46We just see it differently. And listen, a grand jury is, that's not, that's not, that's not a little rock. That is somebody dropping a refrigerator on you if it, if it comes through. And then you can spend two or three years. I know. I don't trust those. Well, and you can spend two or three years just proving that you're innocent and you spend a whole bunch of money. And why are we doing this? Where it's, it's damn near, I don't know, how many hundreds of years later. I mean, the last six months, it felt like 700 years. So I don't understand. Tulsi Gabbard has not put forward any allegation that is criminal.

34:20And here we are. And by the way, this is all a part of a whole series of things that Donald Trump has done, even this past couple of weeks, that just seems like he is just going to abuse every little bit of power that he has to guard people he doesn't like. He's snatching stuff out of the Smithsonian. He's doing all kinds of stuff, none of which is making America any better. None of which is making anybody's grocery bills go down. A lot of this stuff just seems like he's just petty white or petty wop or whatever. He's just the most petty president we've ever had. Can we just get on with getting the price of groceries down with what it's supposed to be running on?

34:56All I'm going to say beyond my appreciation for both of you, and I think you know that quite well, Jennings, you are lucky we didn't get into the Bureau of Labor Statistics because I was going to welcome you into my Thunderdome, my friend, and it was not going to be pretty. So mark that down. We're going to get there eventually. Why are the job numbers wrong every month? Why are the job numbers wrong every month? No, no, no. You don't get to do it at the end when I don't have any more time. You don't get to do that. You started. That was my fault. Okay, I will take. If you were that wrong, you'd be out of a job too, but you're usually right, so it's okay.

35:25Look at that. Van Jones, Scott Jennings, I appreciate you both very much as always. Thanks, guys. Well, in Tennessee today, a third arrest in a quadruple murder. A mom, dad, grandmother, and uncle all killed. A baby found alive where the manhunt could be closing in. Stay with us.

35:49In the National League today, authorities in Tennessee arrested a third person in connection with the murder of four people, a mom, dad, grandmother, and uncle. Their bodies were all found at a property in Dreyer County, Tennessee, not far from the Arkansas state line. Just hours earlier, the parent's seven-month-old baby was found nearby in a random front yard. Authorities say Austin Drummond is the man responsible and that he somehow knew the victims. The manhunt will reach a full week tomorrow, a source tells CNN. The search is now focused in the woods near Union University in Jackson, Tennessee, about 50 miles from the murder scene.

36:28Drummond was released from prison last September after serving 10 years for robbing a gas station. And in Montana, another manhunt after a quadruple murder. There, authorities are looking for an Army veteran wanted for killing four people at a bar in western Montana. We first told you about this one on Friday. CNN's Julie Vargas-Jones has been following the case. Julia, what do we know about the search at this point? Well, authorities are searching for Brown in really difficult terrain, Phil. This is part of the Beaverhead Deer Lodge National Forest. And that search perimeter, a resident familiar with the area told CNN there's just a thousand of different places to hide.

37:07Authorities are looking through every cabin, every hunting site that is known up there. They're looking by land and by air. The last time that he was seen was just west of Anaconda, not far from that area. In that security camera fridge, that image you see there, authorities say that he was fleeing the owl bar just after the shooting. His barefoot, he's only wearing these dark shorts. But authorities believe that he changed quickly in the car that he stole. There were clothes and shoes and that he's believed to be clothed now, but also armed and extremely dangerous. Phil, Brown is a U.S. Army veteran and was part of an armored vehicle crew from 2001 to 2005.

37:46And then he spent most of his last year in the Army deployed to Iraq from 2004 to 2005. And he later joined the Montana National Guard in 2006 and left to Servich as a sergeant in 2009. Do investigators see any connection to the bar or to these victims in any way? Yeah, they do. He lived right next door, Phil. And I will say that we did speak to his niece, Claire Boyle, who said that her uncle suffered with mental health illnesses for a really long time. And she said that it got worse after his parents passed away and the family had been trying to get him help. But Boyle said that the family tried to get help from the VA and from the Montana State Hospital, and they were not able to get help from either of them.

38:34We've reached out to both of those institutions for a comment. And we also know that a family member of his worked at this institution, but it is unknown why he targeted these victims specifically, Phil. Julia Vargas-Jones with the latest. Thanks so much. Well, up ahead, President Trump's allegation that last week's job report was rigged against him. He fired the woman who oversaw that data. So what actually goes into the report? Not one, but two people who oversaw the entire process will join me next.

39:11Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly. In for Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump defending his decision to fire the woman behind the federal jobs numbers just hours after a federal jobs report that he didn't like. Today, Trump claiming those numbers were, quote, rigged to make him look bad. In moments, I'll be joined by two people who held that job under both Republican and Democratic presidents for a reality check. Plus, the governor of Texas has now ordered the arrest of Democrats who skipped today's session and fled the state in protest over Republican efforts to redraw the state's congressional map and give the GOP even more power in Congress.

39:46The head of the Democratic National Committee joins me live to react in just moments. Also, a remarkable story from the front lines of Putin's war. how Ukrainian forces used a drone and an electronic bicycle to rescue an injured soldier who feared he was going to die alone in a bunker.

40:07The lead tonight, the firing fallout. President Trump still facing questions and outright criticism over his abrupt dismissal of the top official in charge of Friday's feeble jobs report. Now, one of Trump's top economic advisors stoking his claims that the data was rigged. But where is the evidence exactly? Let's get straight to CNN's Caitlin Collins at the White House. And Caitlin, what evidence have White House officials put forth up to this point? None. They have just pointed to the revisions, Phil, and said that that is the reason that they believe that there was something and some kind of partisan motivation here behind the revisions that came out with that jobs report on Friday that led to the firing of this official who had worked in the government for decades.

40:47Yes, she was a Biden appointee. But as has been pointed out many times, she was confirmed by a wide bipartisan margin, including two yes votes from then-Senator Marco Rubio and then-Senator J.D. Vance, obviously, who are now Secretary of State and Vice President, respectively. But this is something that the White House has continued to push as their defense for firing her and justifying why they pushed McIntyre for out of this job and say that she was not the right fit for this job. Obviously, she does not compile this report alone. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who work on these reports.

41:18And you've spoken to past commissioners and past Treasury secretaries who have said it is impossible for the one commissioner in charge who simply has her name on the report to manipulate the data in order to hurt the president. Yet that has continued to be the defense from the president and even his top own economic advisors, people like Kevin Hassett, who have said that the president deserves to have his own people in that position. And they have not provided any evidence for why they say she was manipulating this data or to show that she was manipulating the data. Of course, it was a huge revision.

41:49That is why the White House was so upset about it. But we've seen these revisions in the past, Phil. And I should note that last fall, when a report that was put out by McIntyre first showed that there were only about 12 ,000 jobs added in the U.S. economy, the president was touting it out on the campaign trail against the Biden administration. And so the question now is who he chooses to replace her with. He says that's going to come in the next few days. And of course, whoever that is, Phil, will have to be approved by the Senate first. You know, Caitlin, one of the things I've been trying to figure out, the president's fired a lot of people.

42:18He's claimed he's going to fire a lot of people. The blowback he's facing here, do White House officials feel pressure from it? They don't seem to feel a lot of pressure so far. I mean, they've been defending it. The question, I think, you know, with Congress being out of town and on recess is they're not hearing from a lot of Republicans who are being questioned about this by reporters, like our colleagues who are in the hallways of Capitol Hill. That is the only pressure typically that, you know, gets the White House's attention either from that or the base. And so far they haven't faced that from the base over this.

42:46But I think, you know, coming out of this, you know, the way that economists were looking at this, the way that Wall Street was looking at this is there was such a direct line between the numbers that the president did not like and the firing of the BLS commissioner that I think that was what was raising questions. But obviously those numbers still exist and it still raised questions about the state of the U.S. economy. And so those are questions the White House will still have to reckon with, would this commissioner there or not? Yeah, that's a great point. Caitlin Collins for us at the White House, thanks so much.

43:11Of course, Caitlin will have much more tonight on her show, The Source with Caitlin Collins. That's at nine o 'clock Eastern here on CNN. And joining me now are two former commissioners of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Kathy Utgoff, who served in the Bush administration, and Bill Beach, who served in the Trump and Biden administration, administrations. I really appreciate you both joining me, in part because I come from covering this world and have an understanding of the kind of complexities into the process that ends with the jobs report, none of which involves the BLS commissioner until my understanding is about Wednesday of the week.

43:45But I think explaining why this matters and why this is important is essential in this moment. And actually, I kind of want to start with you about that. What is your kind of initial response to the BLS commissioner being fired in the wake of a bad jobs report? Oh, my initial impression was he made a big mistake. He's just kicked up a hornet's nest and there are going to be so many people who are saying he did a bad thing and that that is consequential and that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is crucial for democracy and it is a crown jewel. It is a jewel that we have. It's the best statistical agency in the world.

44:24And the only people who are defending him are his own people and they keep digging in every day. They make things worse for themselves. And I thought when he said this, it was his normal spontaneous, you might call it, remark, and that it was going to blow over, like moving the submarines. But they just kept digging in and digging in. And he kept talking, I want my own people. And somebody told his people that, well, you can't change the numbers. So Kesson Hassett kept and says, well, we're not just going to change the commissioner. We're going to get rid of the statisticians and the economists.

45:03All right. So it's just it's amazing what they're doing. And he keeps talking. I want my own people. It's not the words. Somebody his people who are used to the spontaneity should be better able to handling it. I think it would have been a one day story because really nothing is people should know nothing bad is really going to happen. You can't change the numbers. You're built to that point. You were one of his people. In the sense that you were his appointee and you served it two years into the Biden administration. I did. I didn't hear much from Brian Deese and that crew being angry about you during any jobs reports.

45:41But to the point being made here, the commissioner's role here, how much say did you have over what the final numbers were going to be when you saw them on Wednesday to the Friday when they were released? Well, I think zero is the upper bound of that response. And Commissioner Utkoff handed to me a very fine organization that was dedicated to getting the numbers out without any political interference or even the appearance of any political interference and bristled at the fact that they had a commissioner appointed by President Trump. I had a lot of work I had to do to assure them that I would not bring any pressure whatsoever on the process of collecting the data, organizing it, summing it up, running the math so we you get to the sectoral details and also to the totals, I would see the data Wednesday morning around 11 o 'clock after it had been totally loaded into all the computers that BLS maintains, there was no way for me to change the data.

46:38I could have said, oh, you people need to do a better job. The numbers are too low or too high. It would have made a zero difference to that staff. In fact, they would have talked to me less. They actually locked the doors one time so I couldn't get in before they knew I was going to be okay. I WOULD SAY I WOULD SAY I WOULD HAVE TO SAY I WOULD HAVE TO HAVE TO SAY I WOULD HAVE TO GET INTO ANY OF THEIR OFFICES OF THE GROUP OF 40 PUTTING IT TOGETHER. I JUST HAVE TO SAY THIS. THERE IS NO REASON PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THE WAY THE PROCESS WORKED. HE DOESN'T NEED TO KNOW. HE WAS BADLY INFORMED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIM DON'T DO THIS BECAUSE THIS

47:22We need to have a better way of collecting these numbers of more cost effective way. That's what I hope the president does now. He says backs off of this and says, OK, let's really go in there and improve the statistical performance of a good organization. You make a really good point because just real quick, because I want to make this point. It is not a new thing saying there are better methods to do things. We need to have discussions about better methods, particularly in the wake of COVID and where the response rate has been. It is a little bit hypocritical to do what they've done when you have a budget request that cuts the overall total and cuts the actual career officials that would be there.

48:00Will you trust data coming out of BLS going forward? Yes, I would. It's such a stable. It's been around since 1884. These people know what they're doing. And I wouldn't say try to do better with the same money. I would say you really need to have more money here because you have to collect more data to make it more reliable. And it's just unconscionable cutting people and money when the BLS is crucial to running the country. It's not as expendable. So they should have more money. And that's the one thing I hope comes out of this because there's so much attention on the BLS. Maybe people will say, oh, yeah, I did say it's crucial for democracy.

48:44Maybe I'll look and see how much money they have. And they will be appalled about the 20 % reduction since 2001. So I'm hoping something good comes out of this. I don't think the administration is going to recover, but I hope there's something good that comes out of it, which is more money for the BLS. And the two of us will help people understand that nothing bad is going to happen. The numbers aren't going to be changed. Just last thing before I let you guys go, to make this point, and I forget sometimes to try and explain this because it's just such how the process works. Revisions. Revisions, right.

49:23My view has always been, that's a good thing. Yes, exactly. They're getting more information over time, and they're revising, and they're acknowledging, weren't quite there on this one, we made it better this time. Yeah. How should people who are watching this and saying, it's true, they're wrong a lot. Why do they revise so much? So it's not a matter of being wrong. It's a matter of having more information the second and third months that this window is open. We send out surveys to 600 ,000 businesses. Those businesses don't all do their job the same month that they should do their job, about 68 % get their stuff in.

49:56The next month, another bunch get in. It's up to 83 % complete. And then by the end of the third month, it's around the 90s, 92, 93. Good survey. So it's additional information. that additional information lets you know whether or not you should revise up or down or not revise at all. So who would not want additional information? I mean, that's just, the world doesn't work with less information. It works with more. So this is, these revisions are not mistakes. These are improvements on the initial estimate. Really important point. I really appreciate your guys' time for being here. I imagine I will probably ask you to do this again quite often if you guys don't mind.

50:32Yes, yes. But I think this story should have died a few days ago. and they just keep it going. Yeah, and that I think makes it really important to actually tell people how this all works. Thank you guys very much. You're welcome. I really appreciate it for your time. Well, I want to bring in now Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska. Congressman, what's your reaction to kind of how this has all played out over the course of the last couple of days? The president's willingness to fire the commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who I can't fathom he had any idea who that individual was prior to Friday morning.

51:05well i got two takes on this first i do think it was a mistake to so rapidly fire this director i think it was probably very important to get the facts first and then make a decision but shooting the messenger when you're the boss has a lot of impact i'm a five-time commander in the air force and you don't shoot the messenger you try to get behind those numbers and understand what needs to be done. And maybe after review, and you see that maybe there was some malfeasance or negligence, maybe you can make a decision to fire then. But I think in this case, the numbers reflect about 45 % of the data for the first month.

51:45And you're going to have second and third month to get more data, and you can get some revisions. That's what happened with also their revisions for the second and third month this time around. Shooting the messenger is not a good thing if you're a boss. The second thing I'd like to say, we have to have accurate data to make decisions. And if there's any taint or perception that this data becomes partisan or you're hiding the real data or real facts, that has a real impact on our federal banks making decisions on interest rates and the president making other economic decisions. We've got to have real data to make decisions on, and we've got to protect that.

52:25We've got to know that what we're looking at is the best data to the best of their knowledge, doing their best efforts to get the right data. I don't think there's any question about that. In your time on Capitol Hill, have you had concerns about that? Has there been things that you've looked at and said you don't think that's actually the case with what the government's presenting? Well, the revisions at times have been pretty drastic, like they were this time, where we saw a significant decrease in the employment numbers. But if you dig behind why that happened, and I was doing some reading today in one of our papers, and it was there was a lower than normal turnout for the initial tranche of information.

53:05And then you get the second and third tranche, and it created a significant change. And what I understand is the Bureau here is getting – they're not getting the feedback in an ex-vicious manner like they used to. So we're starting to see more significant revisions there. But that doesn't mean these people are trying hard. That doesn't mean that they're trying to skew the data. And so I think the president should have done due diligence, did a review before pulling the trigger here. Shooting the messenger as a boss is a bad thing. It has second and third order effects. And we don't want to, you know, make our data to look suspect to the American people and people making decisions on economic matters.

53:48We were talking before you came on just about the kind of the pressure on the organization in terms of funding cuts that they faced over the course of the years. I think there's also a proposal on the table to perhaps merge them with some of the data operations inside the Commerce Department as well right now. Would you like to see more funding go? You're a data guy. You make your decisions, your voting decisions, your analysis decisions of what you're seeing in the numbers of what you're hearing from your district. Is that a concern to you, the budget cuts and what that may, the impact that may have on federal data?

54:20I do think I should see the data before seeing that. I haven't seen how much the bureau has been reduced or what the proposals are. But we do need accurate data. You know, I'm reading a book on Stalin right now. They're putting out data back then on, you know, whether it's America or the Soviet Union at the time, European countries. Everything's based on data and you've got to have accurate data. An interesting thing I find is Stalin didn't want accurate data. It was if you gave him accurate data, he would kill you. This isn't nothing like that. But we've got to have accurate data and we've got to trust what's put out there.

54:54And I would just say from my vantage point here in Nebraska, we're seeing a bit of a troubled economic mess. Right now it's a troubled time. And I'll say in Nebraska, the GDP here has decreased by 6 percent over the last year. And it's all about trade. It's all about getting corn and soybeans out the door. So what I hear with, you know, weak jobs numbers, we're sort of seeing that in Nebraska right now. To that point, last one before I let you go. In terms of, you know, I've talked to administration officials that say, look, tariffs are settled now. There shouldn't be uncertainty. This should help provide some clarity for any industry going forward.

55:33When you talk to your constituents, particularly in the ag community right now, what do they see over the course of the next month or two? We just saw some new tariff numbers and come out last week. So I don't think it's been stabilized yet. You know, I'm an old school conservative. I like Milton Friedman. Free trade provides the best products at the best price in the most efficient manner. Of course, it has to be fair trade. And I would agree with whether it's not fair trade, the president should try to correct that. But doing tariffs against 80 different countries, I have a hard time accepting that as a sound strategy.

56:09I think in the end, the American consumer would be paying a lot more for the price of their goods. And we're already starting to see that because in the end, tariffs are a tax on consumers. And so in Nebraska, what I hear from our Fortune 500 companies, I see it with our agriculture producers. We're losing share of the market right now. And that's going to affect jobs. It will have an effect on inflation. We're already seeing maybe a small uptick. But if the president sticks with these numbers, I think over time, these 25 percent tariffs will be represented in the goods we buy from these countries.

56:44And so I'm concerned about the strength of our economy. And I've not been reading history, economic history. Tariffs are very seldom have brought good to our country. I mean, the last time the Republicans have supported something like this was in the 1930s of the Smoot-Hartley Act. And it turned out poorly. And I think the Republicans learned from it. And I've never supported tariffs since World War II. And that's where I'm at. Yeah, it was 100 years ago, Smoot-Hawley, when the tariffs were last this high. Republican Congressman Don Bacon from Nebraska, always appreciate your time, sir. Thanks so much.

57:16Thank you. Well, the Texas governor has now ordered the arrest of Democratic lawmakers who skipped today's special session. I'll get reaction from the chair of the Democratic National Committee in just a moment. Stay with us.

57:33In our politics lead a short while ago, Texas Governor Greg Abbott ordering the arrest of Democrats who refused to show up for today's special House session. Texas Republicans are trying to move forward with their redistricting of the state's congressional map, an effort to bolster Republicans' prospects of and retaining the House control or the control of the House in the 2026 midterms. Joining me now, the chair of the Democratic National Committee, Ken Martin. Mr. Chairman, really appreciate your time. I want to start with the Texas Attorney General, Ken Paxton, vowed to hold Texas Democrats accountable, saying, quote, it's imperative that they be swiftly arrested, punished and face the full force of law for turning their backs on the people of Texas.

58:13What's your response to that? Well, what I would say is, you know, Donald Trump, Greg Abbott, Ken Paxton, they said they wanted a showdown. And guess what? That's exactly what they're getting, a showdown. This is not the Democratic Party of your grandfather, right, which would bring a pencil to a knife fight. We're bringing a knife to a knife fight. We're going to fight fire with fire. And we're going to do everything we can right now to stand up against this unconstitutional power grab by the Republicans. Make no mistake about it. As Leader Wu said, if you want to come and get them, come and take it.

58:45We're ready. When you say fire with fire, it seems like the outcome, at least if passed as precedent, for Democrats in this situation is they've got the votes. At some point, they will move it forward, whether in this session or in a future session. So when you say fight fire with fire, are you talking about other Democratic states changing their maps? Well, certainly we're going to do everything we can right now to stop this map from moving forward in Texas. But let me tell you, If they enact this map and they actually pass this into law, I would expect Democratic governors to put every single option they can on the table to respond in kind.

59:21And let me tell you, I've had a lot of conversations with governors throughout this country, and they're ready to fight fire with fire as well. Look, we can't be the only party that plays by the rules. We have to actually stand up and fight back right now because this isn't just about partisan politics. It's not about the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. This is about our Constitution. It's about our democracy. And it's going to require all of us in this moment to call it out for what it is. It's bullshit. And someone needs to stand up and fight back. And guess what? That's the Democratic Party.

59:53I'm so proud of the decisions that those House Democrats in Texas made to flee the state. They're using the power that they have to stand up and fight. And I expect Democratic governors and other Democrats around the country to do the same. What are the status of conversations? Presumably the DNC would have a significant role in moving forward if other states decide to change their maps or go forward in the effort to change their maps. That's complicated in places like New York, in places like California. Have you talked about organizationally what the DNC would need to do, financially what the party would need to do if that goes forward?

1:00:28Well, we're prepared to do whatever it takes, Phil. To be honest with you, we've had great conversations with folks in Texas, conversations with governors and others around the country. This party and frankly, Americans and people around the world understand what this is really about. This is truly much bigger than Texas. If they are able to get away with destroying our constitution, attacking voting rights and civil rights in this manner, what's next for this Republican Party? What's next for this authoritarian regime? We have to stop them right now on this, and we're going to do everything within our disposal using every single option we have to actually fight back.

1:01:06What is the longer term kind of thought process in terms of building Democratic majorities in state houses going forward? Well, it's exactly, you know, look, if we're not willing to fight like hell for the things we believe in, then do we really believe in them at all. For us to win again, we have to show the American people that not only are we authentic, but that we're willing to stand up, to actually fight, to do everything we can to actually build this country the right way and actually deliver on the promises of a better future for Americans. There's one party who's thrown that completely aside, Donald Trump and the Republicans who said they were actually going to make people's lives more affordable, who said they were going to actually create jobs.

1:01:45And guess what? They've done none of that. And it shouldn't surprise anyone. If Donald Trump is willing to actually fire his Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner because he didn't like the number, clearly they're going to be willing to do anything they can to hold on to power. And this is just another example of them rigging the system against the will of the American people. Democratic National Committee Chairman Ken Martin, appreciate your time, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Phil. Well, controversial far-right activist Laura Loomer has no official Trump administration job. So why is she taking credit for a slew of recent high-profile firings inside the White House?

1:02:23New CNN reporting next.

1:02:31In our politics lead, you are looking at live pictures out of Austin, Texas, where Democrats are leading a protest outside of Governor Greg Abbott's mansion. It is in response to Texas Republicans' congressional redistricting plan in the Lone Star State, which would bolster Republicans' prospects of retaining control of the United States House of Representatives. Now, in the meantime, Texas Democrats now face civil arrest for refusing to show up at today's special House session, further blocking Republicans from moving forward with their redistricting plan. My panel of experts joins me now. And Chuck Rocha, I want to ask you what we just heard from the Democratic National Committee chair.

1:03:06Democrats have been looking for leadership, looking for somebody to fire them up. This is a moment they're clearly trying to seize on, capitalize on, on some level, not just in Texas, but on a state level. What was your sense of kind of the plan going forward? There's been a big talk about what's the Democrats' message. And what I've been trying to tell Democrats is Donald Trump was on to something when he got elected. And I give him credit for this. He tapped into a frustration and anxiety around rigging the system. It's just one of many things, the border and other things. But this rigging of the system is real.

1:03:35And nothing says rigging the system like trying to literally steal five seats in the middle of redistricting and bring it. That's why they left Texas. They know they can't really stop it. But they want you and me to keep talking about them trying to rig the system because it's real. And people don't like when the system is being rigged against the voters. You know, I take Chuck's point. But I got to say, Democrats going to Illinois with their hands tied behind their backs seem very weak and feckless, in my opinion. And I think it's why there are a lot of voters who are Democrats, who want to see the Democratic Party be stronger, have a solution to Trump, which that's to be expected, right?

1:04:05What is that solution? Where is the strength coming from the Democratic Party? You just interviewed the chair. And I saw the chair, and I got to be honest with you. This guy didn't inspire me, and I'm thinking if this is who we're running against, we're going to kick your butts in midterms next year. I'll tell you about kicking your butt. When you're walking down the street and somebody comes up and sucker punches you, and then you get up and whoop their butt, that's what the Democrats are doing right now, because we were just minding our own business walking down the street. Y 'all came to us.

1:04:27I love it. Chuck's politics are my favorite politics. And from a purely apolitical book, absolutely through the image that he presents, it just resonates, at least with an Ohioan. Okay, Shmorka, I got to ask you, we had some great new reporting from my colleagues at CNN about Laura Loomer, far-right activist, her influence within the Trump administration. Loomer says she recently spoke with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth about her work finding disloyal employees within the Pentagon. A Defense Department spokesperson confirms the two spoke. She's already succeeded in getting several top Trump officials fired.

1:04:59What's your read on all of this? Yeah, look, I think it's interesting. And a lot of voters who are very ardent supporters of the president, they really like what Loomer is doing. Even though she's not in an official capacity, they like having someone who can advise the president on finding individuals and removing individuals who may object to his agenda. Because they want to see that agenda move forward. That's why he won not only Electoral College, but also the popular vote. And so I think Loomer, as a very loyal supporter of the president, is playing this outside role of Sam as president. I'm going to make sure that whomever you decide to appoint will be people who have stood with you since day one.

1:05:35She's going to get a lot of support from the base. And that's why I think the president will continue to stand with her. Well, how do you feel about it? I mean, I'm not bothered by it because if I was a president, I would want somebody to say, sure, Michael, you shouldn't appoint this guy because this guy does not have your best interest. Or this guy may have been critical of you in the past. I would at least want to say, well, I wasn't aware of that. Where do you stand today? And how will that be problematic in your role moving forward? Is that why you're being nice right now? Because you're afraid they'll come after you if you say something mean?

1:06:00I got 100 plus guns at my house. I'm not worried about anybody coming to my house.

1:06:07I love this group. Let's do this for the next 45 minutes. South Carolina governor's race. Nancy Mays, congresswoman, just jumped in. What's your read on her? You know, y 'all let me know ahead of time. I was going to talk about her. And I did a little deep dive before I left and was surprised about a few things. I did not know she was the first female to graduate from the Citadel. And I also didn't know that one of her opponents is an attorney, a district attorney, who's prosecuting her fiance for things that she went on the House floor and talked about. So I think she's got a lot of motivations.

1:06:38Also, I found out that the Freedom Caucus, Ralph Norman, is also running. This is going to be a free-for-all. Like, if you want to get some popcorn and watch the Republican primary, I may move down there and just check it out for a little bit because it's going to be cray-cray. It is very old school South Carolina Republican politics. Anything we can do, though, to take away from the Democrats, we're going to do that, okay? Because if they listen to you, then we might have a little problem. What is your, when you talk to Republicans kind of inside the party right now as they're looking at South Carolina, like some I talk to are like, dude, I don't even want to talk.

1:07:06Yeah, it's a mess. It's a mess. I mean, look, I think it's going to either go to the congressman or the lieutenant governor. I think there's not a big expectation from individuals that I've talked to in the state who know the state politics well that Nancy Mace will see some type of a significant rise in the polls. She'll be a bit of a disruptor. She's very loud, provocative. She'll raise some money, perhaps, increase her name ID further. But in terms of being a competitive candidate, I haven't spoken to a single person who actually believes that. So it's more of a nuisance candidate than a competitive candidate.

1:07:33The Donald Trump endorsement goes a long way here. The Donald Trump endorsement goes a long way in a primary like this. It'd be interesting to see where he falls on this thing. It does. It goes a long way everywhere. Absolutely. But in a red, red state, that's why I was mentioning it. I have to ask, Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to be standing up against the Trump operation a little bit more lately. She said something, quote, I don't know if the Republican Party is leaving me or if I'm kind of not relating the Republican Party as much anymore. I don't know which one it is. I think the Republican Party has turned its back on America first and the workers and just regular Americans.

1:08:07It's interesting. I mean, she's been on the opposite side from some Israel issues, some funding issues. I think I'll be quick. I think it's healthy to have a disagreement within the party. Sometimes the expectation from outsiders perspective is that the Republican Party doesn't make room for those who may differ from the president. I think we want that disagreement. I think the president will be open to talking with the Congresswoman about ways where we can improve the party further. 2028. Excuse me. I'm sorry. 2028. Here you go. That's just all I'm saying. She makes a lot of money doing it. It sounds like she want to run for president.

1:08:37I'm just saying. I'm just saying. That's what it means. I'm just going to manifest this one. I'm just saying it would be great. I've got to defend Democrats all the time. You defend Marjorie Taylor Greene. Boom, take that. I appreciate you both. Thank you. That was good, man. That was a good closer. I appreciate that. The ties look great on both of you, by the way. Up next, a remarkable survival story from the front lines of the war in Ukraine. How Ukrainian forces used a drone and a bicycle to rescue one of their own who was badly wounded and stranded. Don't want to miss this. Stay with us.

1:09:13We're back with our world lead. The White House today confirmed that U.S. foreign envoy Steve Witkoff will visit Russia on Wednesday. President Trump has given Russian President Vladimir Putin until the end of the week to reach a peace deal with Ukraine. As the fighting rages on, CNN's Dick Peyton Walsh shares this incredible story from the front lines about a drone delivery which saved a critically wounded soldier who thought he'd be left for dead. This Russian assault, brutal, even throwing landmines into the bunkers, had left all three of his fellow soldiers dead in the trench next to him. And Andrei, with his leg wounded, unable to run, thought, like so many Ukrainian soldiers in tiny isolated positions pinned down by Russian drones, that he was done.

1:10:08But back at his command bunker, watching on drones, they had an idea. Maybe Andrii had the strength to cycle out. So they attached an electric bicycle to a drone like this, moving it slowly, perilously in pieces to the front. It was dropped to Andrii whole, and then, remarkably, he cycled out.

1:10:47The Ukrainians had tried to ensure the skies were free of Russian drones, but that wasn't enough. Andrei hit a landmine. The drone operator's heart sank, had it all come to nothing? But then this tiny figure emerged, limping out of the smoke, somehow alive, walking on, his bandaged leg visible.

1:11:18Greeted by a Ukrainian and helped into another bunker, where he had to wait two more days for rescue. Necessity is the mother of invention in Ukraine, but nothing can beat luck. Nick Payton-Walsh, CNN, Kiev, Ukraine. Our thanks to Nick Payton-Walsh for that remarkable report. Well, our small business series takes us to South Carolina next, where a mother and daughter started their company more than 11 years ago and now sell their hair products across the country. How have tariffs impacted their business? Are they raising prices for consumers? We'll tell you. That's next.

1:11:58We're back with our Business Leaders series, where we hear from small business owners from coast to coast about President Trump's tariffs. Gabibos are the signature product of the company Confidence, a mother-daughter business that launched 11 years ago. Their patented hair barrette double clips to make sure it stays in girls' pigtails, braids, and twists. founders, Rosalyn and Gabby Goodwin, join me now from Columbia, South Carolina. I really appreciate you guys joining me. Rosalyn, to start with you, where do you manufacture Gabby Bowes and how have the tariffs affected the business so far? Well, Gabby Bowes have been manufactured in China since we started 11 years ago.

1:12:36We started 11 years ago trying to source in America and have tried unsuccessfully for the last eight years because it just is not cost effective to manufacture plastic type products like our anti-slip guarantee to stay in Gabby Bo. Gabby. And it impacted us so much that we've had to cancel manufacturing orders. Gabby, can you, the pressure of that, the stress kind of going through that, especially a business that you guys have found created, it looks darn impressive, the video that we're showing right now, that moment for you and your mom right now? Yeah, it definitely was stressful in the moment to be able to get news of such a high uptick in tariffs, especially in a really big opportunity for us to be able to go into retail.

1:13:31We'd had a manufacturing order put in place for us to provide new inventory for a new retailer that we will be launching in next month. And as soon as we put that order in, we saw that the tariffs were up almost 175%. And that was very nerve wracking for us. The tariff cost way more than the order itself. So it was a little stressful at first, but of course we have learned to pivot in these past 11 years and have been able to successfully fulfill the order with our existing inventory, but it definitely did take a dent on the plans that we had. I mean, as experienced as you guys may have been over the last 11 years, that level of agility, I can't fathom you ever imagined having to have.

1:14:20Roslyn, have you had to raise prices? How are you thinking about going forward? Well, we have a low price product and we cannot pass on that price increase to our consumer. Luckily, we had existing inventory that we could fulfill our first purchase order, but we have three purchase orders for this amazing dream retailer that we're launching in 876 stores next month. So after we fill this first purchase order, we're not sure that we'll have enough inventory for the remaining purchase orders. So we remain hopeful that there will be some type of resolution that does not close and bankrupt small businesses and prevent businesses like ours from really realizing their dreams as far as growth and scale.

1:15:11Gabby, to that point, if you had a message that you could convey to policymakers, White House officials, members of Congress, what would it be? Yes, I would say to keep in mind that a lot of businesses are really being able to fund the American dream or creating the American dream. They're being independent. They're going after their passions and their goals and their dreams. And things such as tariffs and big tariffs that have been put in place through policy are really putting a dark cloud, I would say, over those dreams and not really allowing them to be able to be fully realized. and considered, especially for a lot of smaller businesses like ours, product-based businesses, people who are product businesses who are creating products for people to continue to use.

1:16:01It has become harder for us to be able to continue to produce those products. And so I would just say to really be able to keep in mind all the people that are continuing to really energize the economy through their businesses and through their ingenuity and really hoping to see kind of a difference and being able to find peace throughout the world as well. You can find Gabby Bowes online. I urge you to go find them based just on the video we were just watching right there. It's a remarkable product. Roslyn, Gabby Goodwin, really appreciate your guys' time. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

1:16:40Well, you know him best from Star Trek. Now, George Takai is getting personal in his new graphic memoir, and he's sitting down with Jake Tapper. That's next.

1:16:53And our pop lead, actor George Takei is best known for his role as Sulu in Star Trek, and over the last few decades, he's also become well-known for his work as an activist. Jake Tapper recently spoke to him about his new graphic memoir, It Rhymes with Takei, which gives readers an insight into both Takei's personal life and political activism. I have been closeted most of my life, two different kinds of closets. When I was a child, five years old, we were imprisoned in a very real U.S. barbed wire fence internment camps. After the war, and we were released, and I was about nine or ten years old, I was discovering that I was different in ways more than just my Japanese face.

1:17:40I thought Bobby was really cute. He had a sweet smile. I was attracted to other boys. Captain's Log USS Excelsior. Hikaru Sulu Commanding. So I spent most of my adult life invisible, imagined barbed wire fence until I was 58 years old. That's very late in life. And that's when I decided I'm not going to do that. And I came out. May equality live long and prosper. Your book about life in an internment camp, They Called Us Enemy, was critically acclaimed, a bestseller. Why did you choose to tell this story in that same format? I was fascinated by the comic books, visual storytelling. and I discovered that they appealed to people that didn't like to read as well.

1:18:39I decided I'm going to do it in that form so I can have a lot of people reading about this, even this late. If I was to be an actor, I had to remain closeted. I felt vulnerable. I knew I was different. My Buddhist upbringing had taught me to accept all parts of myself and be a part of society. But I had to protect my secret. When Star Trek began, I had been pursuing my own career ambitions. I wasn't seeking to become an emblematic image. But being of Asian descent, I knew the responsibilities that came with my career choice. The phrase coming out suggests that you open a door and you step out.

1:19:31It isn't that simple. It's a lifelong process. The narrow corridors widen a bit. And finally, the will to grab that doorknob and step out for combat and see what's on the other side.

1:19:53George Takei's new book, It Rhymes with Decay, is out now. You can follow the show on X at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Aaron Burnett, Out Front, starts now.

1:20:12Go inside the sports moments that brought us together and made history. From the underdogs to the rivalries and the miracles. It sends chills down your spine. It's what sport was all about. The new CNN original series, Decades in Sports. Now streaming on the CNN app.