Utah Officials Urge Political Restraint After Kirk Killing

26:32It was performative, but to sit together, to cross the aisle, that, you know, it was performative, but it matters because people are watching. And it sends a signal that this is how we're going to behave in this moment. And I thought Governor Cox in Utah did a good job today of trying to model what I wish the president had. And he's not alone. George W. Bush's statement on Wednesday, members of other political parties are not our enemies. They are our fellow citizens. I spoke to Utah Senator John Curtis just a few minutes ago. He said that he wishes this would be a top-down messaging, that President Trump would share a unifying message here.

27:12Sure, Michael, were you disappointed to hear those words from Trump? Disappointed. I mean, look, the president treated and saw Charlie Kirk like a son. That's from my understanding. And so I can understand the president being pretty pissed off if someone he treated like a son was just murdered. Now, look, I certainly believe in leaders calling for calm across the board. I've been very explicit about that. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend, Jim, that I haven't spent hours looking through my own social media, seeing people applaud this, seeing people excited about this, seeing people happy about this and not conservatives.

27:44people on the other side. I'm asking about the president of the United States. I know what you're asking. Who assigned blame entirely to one party. When you know the facts show, sadly, sadly, people claiming affiliation with both left and right have committed horrible acts of violence. Yeah, yeah, sure. But you know what? If the rules were reversed, Democrats rightfully so would say Republicans need to tell people on their side to calm down. I have not seen a significant number of Democratic leaders calling for people on their side to calm down. And again, I have seen a ton of social media posts of people applauding this.

28:19That's insane to me. But that's actually not true. Not from sitting lawmakers. Yeah, sitting lawmakers, Democrats almost immediately. And I think they felt a pressure to make sure they were very clear not to condone this, to call it out. And again, in previous times. Again, I think about when Reagan was shot. I mean, leadership is about how you react in a moment of crisis. And time and time again, this president uses crisis to further divide, to do the us versus them, instead of calling to our better angels. Again, I thought Governor Cox did a beautiful job of trying to model that this morning.

29:01I guess the question is, what's going to help? If we can agree with a simple proposition that political violence is bad, whoever perpetrates it and whoever the target is, what's going to help? Senator Curtis, he said he wishes it was top down, and he's referring to the president, by the way, his fellow Republican. But he says that from his view, he's going to start from the bottom with himself and members of his family. What's the best way forward? I think everybody should start with themselves as individuals. I mean, clearly you want the very top from the president on down to speak against this.

29:34But that's not enough. I mean, I'm not certain if our society today necessarily looks to all of our leaders for guidance. I think you've got to have some responsibility as the individual as well. I think sometimes we often say, well, if the leaders would just do this, then everybody will follow. And I'm just not, I'm not necessarily convinced that that's the case anymore, Jim, if I'm being honest. Sorry, but I think one of the things we know, and certainly those of us who have platforms should know, we have a responsibility. You never know who's watching. You never know who's following. Our children are watching in this moment how people react, right?

30:15They're listening. What are the signals? What are the cultural norms? What's acceptable? Where's the accountability? So I just think we have to set the table around that. And again, I think it goes back to two big pieces. Our democracy. Are we going to be a constitutional democracy where free speech is protected, but where we also, there is accountability, where we hold ourselves accountable. And we don't let ourselves off the hook by saying, oh, this isn't who we are. It is who we are. We don't have to be this way, but we're all responsible. I agree with that. Well, I agree with Karen on that.

30:51I agree with that as well. But our leaders have a really important role to play. Nope, I agree. They have enormous platforms, too, no question. Sure, Michael, Karen? I'm sure we'll continue this conversation. Thank you. In the world lead. Just incredible drone video from Nepal this week. Not of a wildfire. Instead, this is the aftermath of deadly protests led there by young people. And as a result of those demonstrations now today, Nepal swore in its first female prime minister as interim leader. CNN's Christy Liu Stout reports on what has been a tumultuous, sometimes violent week. A dramatic week in Nepal as the capital turned into an inferno.

31:33Protesters in Kathmandu torched government buildings, including the parliament and the home of the former prime minister, who was forced to step down on Tuesday. High-rise buildings like the Hilton Hotel were also destroyed. Some ministers were evacuated, airlifted to safety by helicopters as demonstrators closed in. Yesterday night was super, super, super scary. I could actually see a lot of high-rises burning into flames right from my balcony. Everything is burning around Kathmandu. So we could not sleep all night yesterday. The protesters are young, defiant and demanding change. It's very good for our country, he says.

32:13Now I think like us, the youth will stand. The protests were initially triggered by a social media ban, but after the government lifted it on Monday, they intensified. Fueled by a wider set of grievances, including government corruption, lack of economic opportunities, and the recent use of lethal force on protesters. Dozens of people were killed and more than a thousand wounded. This video was filmed by Sri Gauram, another eyewitness. This young little girl was hit by a baton on her head, and she was completely bloody. And I was trying to help her out, and a lot of kids, they started falling down, and they started beating.

32:57They started fighting everywhere, and then everyone ran.

33:04In all the chaos, you were wounded as well. Yeah, I'm weird wounded. I've got treatment on my hand. and at my back and legs. The UN condemned the violence. I have received concerning reports of unnecessary and disproportionate use of force by the security forces. I call for an urgent, thorough, transparent and impartial investigation. Protest anger has extended online to videos like this, mocking so-called NEPO kids, the entitled children of officials. The protests are being led by young people known as Gen Z. And their pick for interim leader, Nepal's first female chief justice, Shushila Kharki, will now step in.

33:50As the authorities try to resolve the political vacuum, a nationwide curfew is still in place. As the city smolders and tries to rebuild. Christy Lou Stout, CNN. in. Just ahead, a jailed media tycoon facing a potential life sentence. What his son told me about his apparent treatment behind bars. Plus, music superstar Bad Bunny, why he is keeping his music in Puerto Rico and away from the U.S. mainland.

34:25In the world lead, pleas for mercy from the son of a jailed media tycoon from Hong Kong, Jimmy Lai. He's waiting on a verdict that could come down any day now. The 77-year-old firebrand founded the tabloid newspaper Apple Daily, known for its blistering critiques of the Chinese Communist Party, a paper now shut down after Hong Kong police raided its offices. Prosecutors accused Lai of igniting huge anti-government protests in Hong Kong in 2019 and trying to lobby the U.S. and other nations to sanction Hong Kong and mainland China. Lai was arrested in 2020, spending much of the time since then in solitary confinement, which his son tells me is a form of torture.

35:11Do you believe this detention is putting his life at risk? Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is no condition for anybody to be in. Solitary confinement is a form of torture. 15-day solitude confinement is a prolonged solitude confinement. My father has been in there for 1 ,700 days. And this is someone who's, again, almost 80. Hong Kong disputes that, claiming solitary confinement was Lai's request. When I spoke with Lai's son earlier this week, he told me that Hong Kong is holding 1 ,000 political prisoners. I asked him about watching freedoms in Hong Kong fade away. If you look up Apple Daily Raids, there was 500 police officers that ran into my father's newsroom and arrested his colleague, took materials.

36:01So this has wide-ranging consequences. Its once strong legal system was what made it unique and special. And if they choose to weaponize that and attack its citizens, attack peaceful pro-democracy supporters, is that still Hong Kong? Or is it just some, you know, island off the coast of authoritarian island off the coast of China? Lai pleaded not guilty to a sedition charge and colluding with foreign forces. If found guilty, he could spend the rest of his life in prison. A note, Lai has the support of President Trump, who said just last month he would do everything he could to save Jimmy Lai. In our pop lead now, Puerto Rican superstar Bad Bunny said aside from a two-month residency in Puerto Rico, he plans on skipping the United States entirely in his next world tour.

36:51In a recent interview, the musician said he plans not to stop in the continental U.S. out of fear that immigration officials might raid his concert venues. CNN's Isabel Rosales is in San Juan, Puerto Rico, speaking to locals about the musical sensation. I'm here! I'm Puerto Rico! Bad Bunny Mania has taken over the island of enchantment. The rapper, who has previously been critical of ICE operations, said in an interview with ID Magazine he didn't include the U.S. in his concert tour because of fear that ICE would raid the concert venues. In a normally slow time for tourism on the island, the Puerto Rican superstar's 30-concert residency is sold out.

37:37Has Puerto Rico ever seen something of this scale? Never. In the 20-year history of Coliseo itself or in the entertainment history of Puerto Rico, nothing of this magnitude. Not even close. Tourism agency Discover Puerto Rico estimates the island will earn at least$196 million from the residency. Do you think that this stimulus will last beyond his residency at all or is this a temporary? I think it's one of the most valuable lessons that will come out of the residency. Even the merch around this historic residency has gone viral. The rapper's version of La Boo Boo, featuring the album's toad mascot, El Sapo Concho, sold out.

38:21Working from a corner of his grandparents' living room in Ponce, the graphic designer Sebastian Muñiz Morales is stunned by the hype. Do you ever go, hey, that shirt you're wearing, I designed that. When I feel very confident to do it, I do it, but I get a little shy telling people that I was the one who created it. Bad Bunny's music has long reflected the struggles of life on the island. You see the La Residencia, but once you go out, you see the different problems we fight for. There are different things that you really don't have to be on the island so you realize that something's wrong here.

38:59A legacy of U.S. colonialism and gentrification confronted head-on in his song, What Happened to Hawaii.

39:10The island facing a crushing debt crisis, crumbling infrastructure, and frequent power outages spotlighted in his song, The Blackout. The reality has driven young Puerto Ricans to leave the island in search of a better opportunity. Something Muñiz Morales once considered. Some people don't see their future here. No pueden ver su futuro si la isla sigue de esta manera.

39:40And Jim, after Bad Bunny wraps up his resident here in Puerto Rico, he kicks off a world tour in the Dominican Republic. Let me just tell you that out here, three hours to the start of the concert, the energy is amazing. You have people dancing all over the place, so many Puerto Rican flags, and obviously fans from all over the world. here for one person, bad buddy. Jim. A world tour everywhere but here. Isabel Rosales, thanks so much. Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jim Sciuto in for Jake Tapper. This hour, we are learning more about the man arrested in connection with the fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk and what was actually engraved on bullet casings recovered alongside the gun.

40:20Plus, President Trump today says he is contemplating sending the National Guard into yet another American city. This is an ICE target. This is an ICE target was killed and an ICE officer hurt during a federal immigration enforcement operation in Chicago. Also, if you're tired of watching long, rambling acceptance speeches at award shows, like me, the Emmys host has a plan for Sunday's ceremony, and it just might guilt trip the long talkers into keeping it brief. The lead tonight, the suspect in the assassination of Trump ally and conservative activist Charlie Kirk is now in custody. 22-year-old Tyler Robinson is being held without bail in a Utah jail on several initial charges, including aggravated murder.

41:09According to officials, Robinson's father is the one who recognized his son. In photos released by the FBI, CNN's Nick Watt has more on what exactly led to Robinson's arrest. along with new details on the evidence against him. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We got him. After a 33-hour manhunt, a 22-year-old suspected assassin in custody. The endgame began just before 8 p.m. last night. The FBI released a never-before-seen video of the suspect. We also released new images to the public of the suspect. Apparently, Robinson's own father recognized his son, confronted him and heard his confession.

41:53His dad called a youth pastor who, in turn, told law enforcement. The suspect was taken into custody at 10 p.m. local time. We're told that on the morning of the murder, Robinson arrived at the UVU campus at 8.29 a.m., then changed into that outfit we see in the security camera images, the t-shirt with an eagle and an American flag to shoot the right-wing influencer dead at 12.23 p.m. Then he changed back into a plain tee and shorts for the roughly three-hour drive back home. Robinson grew up here in Washington County, rural, quiet, conservative. Investigators interviewed a family member of Robinson who stated that Robinson had become more political in recent years.

42:36And at a family dinner in recent days, Robinson mentioned Charlie Kirk was coming to UVU. They talked about why they didn't like him and the viewpoints that he had. The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate. That is where the suspect jumped off the roof after the shooting and ran, fleeing in this direction. Now, investigators say his roommate has showed the messages from the suspect, in which he talks about collecting a rifle from a drop point, later of wrapping it in a towel and stashing it and watching where he stashed it. And also apparently talking about engraving the ammunition.

43:14Now this is where investigators found a rifle wrapped in a towel with engraving on the ammunition. Words, letters, symbols. A second unfired casing read, Oh Bella Ciao, Bella Ciao, Bella Ciao, Ciao Ciao. Apparently referencing a song that glorifies Italian partisans who fought fascists and Nazis in World War II. Another read, hey fascist, catch. Well, I will leave that up to you to interpret what those engravings mean. I think the clearest one that says catch fascist, I think that that speaks for itself.

43:53So state officials are expected to bring charges Tuesday, which would mean that Robinson makes his first virtual appearance three o 'clock Tuesday afternoon. And meanwhile, sources tell CNN federal officials are also weighing charges. In the meantime, I want to show you this. That is the tent where Charlie Kirk was shot dead just an hour or so ago. This cleaning van came in, workers cleaning up that area where Kirk was assassinated. Jim. Good Lord to see that. Nick Watt in Utah, thanks so much. I don't want to bring in now former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Tom Dupree, former head of the Philadelphia and D.C.

44:30Metro Police Departments Charles Ramsey, and retired FBI Special Agent Daniel Brunner. Daniel, good to have you on. The suspect's background here is somewhat hard to put your finger on, right? I mean, to Republican parents, he was registered to vote but didn't vote and was registered as an independent. Some family members speak of him criticizing Charlie Kirk over the dinner table. it's difficult for law enforcement, is it not, to profile and therefore predict actors like this?

45:09Yeah, former director Christopher Wray said it very well that the lone wolf attack is one of the most difficult attacks to defend upon, to prepare for, because it's only the individual who's working this out in his mind, he's preparing for it. If he's not working with others, He's not conspiring with others. He's not preparing with others. It's very difficult to detect it. But this investigation not only will collect the evidence to support a court trial against him, but it's also going to show us where the red flags were, where the indicators were, where his pathway to violence began, and where in future, hopefully, we can prevent it by looking at these indicators and teaching the community, teaching local law enforcement that there's a possible indicator, a possible individual who's on this pathway to go conduct this attack.

45:55Yeah, I remember counterterror officials describing similar challenges with lone wolf terrorists. Chief Ramsey, so the circumstances are such that it ended up being the suspect's own father who recognized his son in those photos shared by law enforcement and has what I can only imagine a difficult conversation with his son. In your experience, have you seen something similar? Yes, actually, you know, I mean, it's not that common, but yeah, I've seen it before where family members actually will turn an individual in, whether it's a son, daughter, or what have you. But I think this whole incident really shows the power of crowdsourcing, of getting information out to the public once you hit that dead end.

46:41I mean, that first 24 hours when you're hot on the trail, you think you might be able to apprehend the individual because your following hot leads, but it leads to nowhere. And at that point in time, you know, putting that information out and you're starting to see more and more departments do it. And it's smart and it leads to an arrest. And oftentimes. Tom, you prosecuted a lot of cases in your time, the initial charges, three of them, aggravated murder, felony discharge, obstruction of justice. What do those initial charges tell you about the case? I mean, this is a state case now and, and now the possibility of federal charges as well.

47:20Right. Well, there's no question the state is going to pursue the most, the strongest possible charges that the evidence will support. So there is no doubt here they are going to be vigorously pursuing a murder charge. I also have no doubt that they are going to seek the death penalty. We could see additional charges come in in the days ahead. As the investigation unfolds, there could be other offenses, other obstruction-related offenses, other gun-related offenses. The other thing to keep our eye on is the possibility of federal charges. Murder is usually prosecuted as a state crime, but the death penalty is available for certain federal crimes.

47:51And I have no doubt that there are people at the Justice Department at this hour who are scouring the law books to try to see if there is a basis for bringing federal charges. And I anticipate they ultimately will bring federal charges. And then the question will become whether the state goes first or whether the federal court case goes first when it comes to bringing this individual to justice. Charles Ramsey, I would ask you this because you've led police departments in two cities. You have a lot of politicians now talking about how the political discourse in this country is a problem that to some degree fuels, right, acts of political violence.

48:25Is that discourse, therefore, in your view, a law enforcement issue as well? Well, it turns into a law enforcement issue like in this case. But, you know, listen, I listened to Governor Cox earlier today when he stepped back up to the mic. And I really, really thought he had some very powerful words about this whole issue of kind of lowering things down, finding that off rap, being able to have political discourse without it leading to violence. That's the right message. Question is, will it last? I mean, I've seen politician after politician say that, but it's just like thoughts and prayers after a school shooting.

49:09You know, they say it and then they don't do a damn thing about it. And I have no reason to believe this is going to be any different. I hate to feel that way, but I've lost faith in a lot of our political leaders. I hope I'm wrong because this is going to get worse before it gets better. If they don't, it makes the job of law enforcement harder. that discourse. Tom Bruner, before we go, how do you rate the FBI's handling of this case? Daniel, sorry, this case so far? I think this was done very well. I think that the investigators at Salt Lake Division, I think the case agents working together with the Utah law enforcement, this is exactly how it's supposed to be.

49:51Work it from the inside out. See what evidence is there, digital evidence. And then if that's not there, go to the next step, push the photograph out, put pressure on the fugitive. And that's exactly what it is. So I think they did a fantastic job at Salt Lake Division. Daniel, Charles, Tom, good to have you all on. Thanks so much. Well, this morning, President Trump was asked this question. I think a lot of folks are thinking about how do we fix this country after Charlie Kirk's assassination? His answer, including, well, an attack on the radical left. That's next.

50:29I think with a high degree of certainty, we have him. We're in custody, right? In custody. Everyone did a great job. We worked with the local police, the governor. Everybody did a great job. I just heard about it five minutes before I walked in. As I'm walking in, they said, looking real good. They have the person that they wanted. Earlier today, President Trump broke the news on Fox that the alleged shooter in Charlie Kirk's murder was in custody. It happened two hours before officials in Utah confirmed that news and identified 22-year-old Tyler Robinson as the suspect. CNN's Caitlin Collins joins us now.

51:08Caitlin, also in that interview, he was given an opportunity by Fox to condemn political violence by everyone, by all sides. Did he take that opportunity? Yeah, this was actually a question, you know, as I was watching this interview this morning, Jim, that the president was asked multiple times in terms of just kind of what everyone was feeling in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's assassination, this kind of lost, you know, sense of shock and grief and horror that so many people in the nation felt watching what happened, regardless of how people felt about Charlie Kirk. And so the president was asked about this, given he had spoken to Charlie Kirk's widow.

51:44And obviously he's talked about awarding him the Presidential Medal of Freedom and just kind of what the aftermath of this looks like. And he was asked multiple times by the host, you know, what his nation, his message would be to the nation about healing, coming together, how we as a country try to to basically reset from this and then come out in a better place. And I just want you to listen to the president in his own words. We have radicals on the right as well. We have radicals on the left. How do we fix this country? How do we come back together? I'll tell you something that's going to get me in trouble, but I couldn't care less.

52:19The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical because they don't want to see crime. Radicals on the left are the problem and they're vicious and they're horrible and they're politically savvy. I mean, if you listen to the president as he went on there, I mean, he was obviously kind of creating an excuse for for people on the far right. As the host there, you heard invoked not just people on the far right, but also on the far left in terms of what this looks like going forward. And obviously, that's been a question here about what this means. And, you know, hours later is when we heard from the governor himself of Utah, Spencer Cox, and also the FBI director.

52:54And the governor, you know, was talking about the messages that were engraved on the bullet as they are still trying to determine, you know, what exactly this motive is, what drove this suspected shooter to do this. And so that has been something I think that's also stood in contrast to when it comes to the motive and what we know now and what the president was assigning there, but also the message we heard from Governor Cox earlier today, you know, urging unity and urging the nation to come together and to get off social media and to go hang out with their loved ones and to be outside. It stands in stark contrast to what you heard from the president.

53:27No question. Governor Cox, Senator John Curtis, I spoke to on this program just a little over an hour ago, George W. Bush putting out a statement trying to make this right a national mission. So Trump says now he plans to go to Kirk's funeral. Do we know any further information about what that's going to look like in Trump's schedule next week? He seemed to indicate that it's going to be after his state visit to the U.K. That's starting. I believe he departs the White House on Wednesday for that. He's expected to be in Windsor outside of London for about two days and then will fly back to the United States.

54:01So we haven't heard any announcements from Turning Point or from Charlie Kirk's family about when exactly those arrangements are expected to be held. But I would expect a heavy presence from the administration there because obviously you've seen this is personal for the FBI director who was on the ground today. Obviously, the vice president, J.D. Vance, who flew Charlie Kirk's remains to Arizona yesterday. The president himself has been deeply affected by this, I'm told, by people around him and just stunned the fact that this happened to one of the leading conservative activists, but also a top ally of his.

54:32And so I would expect to see a lot of members of the administration likely at that funeral, Jim. And having survived his own assassination attempt. Caitlin Collins, thanks so much. Of course, don't miss Caitlin on her show, The Source with Caitlin Collins, tonight, every weeknight, 9 o 'clock Eastern on CNN. an immigration enforcement operation turned deadly this morning in chicago we're going to go live to the scene with details next in our national lead now the department of homeland security is saying an ice operation in chicago turned deadly today after a man stopped by agents was then shot and killed by one of those agents cnn's shimon prokopez is on the scene in chicago and shimon the circumstances here?

55:17Are they saying that he tried to drive away? Yeah, that's exactly right, Jim. What happened here, we're in Franklin Park, which is a suburb of Chicago, and there's been this major influx and operation that Homeland Security with ICE has been conducting here in the past week. And so this morning, it appears that as part of that operation, they were attempting to detain a man along this road here. And during that time, What they tell us is that the man tried to flee and in his attempt to Take off in the car and flee he struck an ICE agent And then dragged that ICE agent and during that time another ICE agent opened fire fatally striking this man.

56:05We don't know much about This man except what ICE has released a spokesman from the Department of Homeland Security said in a statement that the individual was undocumented, was here illegally, and that it had a history of reckless driving. And that's basically it. We've not been able to find any kind of criminal record associated with this individual. And officials have not released any other information. All day, all for the past several hours along this road, we saw FBI agents actually We're out here collecting evidence. They are investigating the fatal shooting. But as of this morning, we had such little information, and that still stands at this point.

56:48Much of the scene has been cleared now. Schools in the area were locked down as a result of this. We tried to go to the man's family's home. No one was there. The governor issued a statement saying that he wants more information and that more transparency needs to... more information needs to come back. And that's what needs to come out. And that's what many of the advocates that we've seen out here, Jim, today, they were talking about that, that they want more information from ICE officials. You know, many of the people in these communities have been on edge here over this threat of ICE operations, all of this happening as this feeling of uneasiness in these communities has been going on all week.

57:29It's becoming a new norm in American communities around the country. Shimon Prokipos in Chicago, thanks so much. Well, if President Trump and the Tennessee governor get their way, we could soon see the National Guard walking the streets of Memphis. The Memphis City Council chairman joins me next with his reaction.

57:54In our politics lead, President Trump has set his sights on another major city for deploying the National Guard. We're going to Memphis. Memphis is deeply troubled. And the mayor is happy. He's a Democrat mayor. The mayor is happy. And the governor, Tennessee, the governor is happy. Deeply troubled. We're going to fix that just like we did Washington. This comes, of course, after Trump previously threatened to send troops to Chicago and several weeks into federal law enforcement control over the nation's capital. Joining me now to discuss is the Memphis City Council Chairman, Ford Canale. Thanks so much for taking the time.

58:38Thank you, Jim. Thanks for having me. So you heard the president there saying that the governor is happy about this, the mayor as well. Are you? Do you welcome this deployment? Well, Jim, I think that we understand that we do have a crime issue here in Memphis that we have been working on for some time, and the numbers are moving in the right direction. Now, we would always accept federal help with federal resources such as federal prosecutors, FBI agents, ATF agents, U.S. marshals to help get the violent criminals off of our streets. Now, we all know that the National Guard is a short-term solution.

59:19And while they're here, if they can help take some of the pressures off of our local law enforcement and work collaboratively with them, then I think it can work. But I'm really focused on the long term solution, which is how we make Memphis safer for the long term, not just the short term where you have someone come in for 30 days and then leave. But a dedicated source of federal and state enforcement that can help our MPD officers, like I said, remove violent criminals from our streets. You said in your statement on this that the help you want are federal resources such as the FBI, DEA, ATF, federal prosecutors, as you mentioned just now.

1:00:00And a fellow member of the city council, Jeff Warren, he noted that the Trump administration actually cut funding for violence prevention programs. So I wondered, do you see these deployments as more a show of force than good law enforcement policy?

1:00:23Oh, we lost the council chairman there. Mr. Canale, we'll try to get him back. Once we do, we'll bring him back. If we do, we'll bring him back. Meanwhile, the... Jim, I can hear you again. Oh, there he is. There he is. Thanks so much. I'm going to ask that question again, just to make sure you got it. You said in your statement that you want federal help, but the help you say you need is FBI help, DEA, ATF, federal prosecutors. All right, now we lost him for good. We'll try to get him back. The Elon Musk-directed Department of Government Efficiency, Doge, as it's known, took actions that left thousands of federal workers, as you know, without jobs.

1:01:01Now, one Trump official is saying it went too far. Imagine that. That's next.

1:01:12In the politics lead, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick tells Axios today he thinks that Elon Musk got Doge wrong, at least when it came to government firings. I thought Elon got caught up in other people's objectives. The focus should have been on cutting the waste, fraud, and abuse and the people you could do over time. I thought he got that backward. Want to bring in my panel now. You know, T.W., I mean, that is definitely far removed from the rhetoric we heard in the first weeks of this administration when Trump to Elon Musk and everybody down was celebrating. I mean, you remember the, you know, the power saw, the chainsaw on stage.

1:01:57I mean, is the party, is the administration realizing this was not a good look for them? Well, look, I think whenever you take someone else's job away from them, in a sense, they're going to get upset. that cabinet secretaries across the administration had some angst over Elon Musk going in without consulting them in some cases and cutting jobs. Look, I think the jobs were low hanging fruit. I think I've talked to people in Democratic administrations and Republican administrations who say you go into some of these agencies, look to your left and to your right, and you're like, why do we have these people here?

1:02:27What do they do? So I get that. And look, I think Howard Lutnick's right. I would love to see the government cut by 10, 15, 25 percent. But that's going to require some congressional action here. If we want civil service reform and allow the president to be able to hire and fire more easily, we ought to do that. Look, Chester Arthur, way back when, was really right to have civil service reform. But since then, there have been more packages and the government's got more and more out of control. We need to revisit that. Also, rescissions packages. Look, I'm all for slashing, but Congress should get involved.

1:02:59We need the administration to highlight what they think should be cut. We need the cabinet secretaries to say okay, and we need Congress to act. You might even say the Constitution said it was Congress. Hop on. In theory, we're supposed to be this constitutional democracy. We could go back to that. But I think what Lutnick was getting at was something a little bit different. I mean, think back to the chaos. People were getting emails. You're fired. You're not fired. You're back. And, you know, if you really wanted to do strategic cuts, So many experts at the time said, start with the inspectors general.

1:03:31That's actually their job. They are the ones who can hand you. Here are places where there's waste, fraud, and abuse where we could be making cuts. And I think Democrats and Republicans can agree that there could be reforms and way to cut fat. But when we were cutting, when you had doctors at VA hospitals saying, I may not be here on Monday to help my PTSD patients. What do I do? That was crazy. Or the folks at the Department of Energy who protect nuclear weapons, right? How about? You know, that kind of thing. So, I mean, my question really is, is the administration realizing there's some political danger here?

1:04:08Well, I think they're realizing a lot of work needs to be done. Look, impoundment used to be a thing in this country until 1977 or whatever the year was. Throughout our nation's history, the chief executive had a lot more control over what was going on in his branch in terms of the people who were employed and the spending being done. We need to sort of return to some more autonomy for the chief executive of this government if we actually want to get this problem in line. Also, we need to talk about the bigger problems, which is entitlement spending and other things. Well, a lot of third rails there, right, for both parties.

1:04:40On the economy, Trump repeated claims today about not just lowering inflation, but apparently fixing it on his Fox interview. Have a listen to what he said. I've already solved inflation. Costs are down. Look at energy costs. You're going to have$2 gasoline pretty soon. We have almost no inflation anymore. I mean, that's not true. That's not true. Yesterday's report showed annual inflation actually rose to 2.9%. That's the highest since January. And polling on economic issues are not looking great for the president. Our first question to you is, are Democrats zeroing in on an affordability message?

1:05:20Boy, they better be. Let me tell you. Many of us have been talking to our Democratic colleagues to say, talk about affordability, talk about health care, because where people's health care costs are about to go up. Medicaid, front page USA Today, 11 billion in cuts in Kentucky, for example. So talk about where the rubber is meeting the road. You know, Trump is doing something that Joe Biden did, actually, which was to tell people something that in their own lives they could see or feel wasn't true. Even though the economy was doing better technically under Biden, when he kept saying to people, it's better, it's better, but they weren't feeling it, that created a disconnect.

1:06:01That is part of why the president's polling is off here. People know in their own lives, groceries are too expensive, gas is too expensive, you know, where Christmas is around the corner, right? It's on people's minds. And lines like only buy two dollars as opposed to several. I mean, do you sense, TW, some political vulnerability there as? It's always going to be the economy, stupid. That will always be the case forever. But I want to go quite easy when chasing economic numbers. Everyone made a big deal of what Jamie Dimon said the other day. A few weeks ago, Jamie Dimon was saying something completely different.

1:06:35The economy's strong. It's great. It's in great shape. Look, last quarter, GDP grew by 3.3%. We still see pretty strong consumer confidence in the jobs numbers, which wasn't the best report. One of the things that many experts on this network pointed out was that people aren't getting fired. People are just waiting to see what happens. Look, Rome wasn't built in the day. Donald Trump is trying to, for the first time in many, many years, completely overhaul the global trade environment as it pertains to American manufacturers and consumers. That's going to take time as these deals go forward, as Supreme Court makes rulings.

1:07:11Give it time, as he said. But here's the thing. That's not what he campaigned on. He campaigned on 24 hours, I'm going to solve this war. 24 hours in a week, I'm going to solve this problem and that problem. And here we are. And again, it's an affordability crisis in that people are saying, look, there's anxiety about the economy. There's anxiety about am I going to get a raise? Am I not going to get a raise? Are my costs going up? And when they're hearing, you can cite, having done this for three years, we can cite all the economic data we want about whether it's up or down. It's what people feel.

1:07:42And when the president at CBS poll, 36 percent of Americans only 36 approve of his handling of the economy. That's big trouble. And that's a big opening for Democrats. The Wall Street Journal calls tariffs a border tax. And you're hearing that from Republicans opposed to the ones willing to say it out loud. Someone's got to pay that tax. Right. And it's either the companies. Right. And you see auto manufacturers, for instance, taking billion dollar hits as a result of tariffs or the consumers if they pass it on. Is that where is the benefit of that going to be in the in the economic sector? Tariffs absolutely are a divisive topic in the Republican Party.

1:08:22Donald Trump, first of all, a we had a surplus just a couple months ago for the first time since I think 2012. So there are signs of that. There are deals being cut currently. But we got to remember something. For four years, the American people didn't think we had a president who was attuned to their struggles, as you kind of alluded to before, but also was even capable of changing it. Donald Trump has long believed that the global trade environment has been unfair for manufacturers and that he can help bring some of these jobs back, especially in high-tech spaces with chips and other things, to bring them back in.

1:08:53He's got tons of commitments from the massive corporate leaders in this space. We need them time to get back in. When rates go down, which they probably will, there's going to be momentum. But he ran on this. He was incredibly clear about this. He's been clear about it since the 60s, and the American people said yes. It's been his most consistent message, one would say, terrorists. I think people just didn't, I think they heard something different. And the other piece we're not talking about here is with all these immigration raids, when we are depleting a workforce and you're having companies that now need workers, so what's that impact going to be on our economy as well?

1:09:35And what's that going to mean for your cost? We don't know, again, not going in the right direction. Folks know how much stuff costs, and they also know if they have a job, and they'll make their own judgments. Karen, GW, good to have you both. This week here at CNN, we are shining a light on the innovators and changemakers who are challenging the status quo to improve the lives of others. CNN's Erin Burnett introduces us to her champion for change, Kara Hartiken-Wheelan, who's committed to preserving farmland and teaching kids to grow what they eat.

1:10:15I can you do this pepper to your hands are so fall what's your name. Max OK do you know how to harvest this she was training I don't know what you do to stay OK Max is learning to grow real food in real dirt. Let's got it. Yeah, yeah, something rare in America today. What are these you know what you're watering. Collard greens, those are delicious. Kara Hartigan-Wheeland leads the Westchester Land Trust. Westchester Land Trust is one of 1 ,300 land trusts in the country. Together, we protect more than 60 million acres of land. 60 million? Yes. Wow. She's turning conservation into a fight for healthy food and stronger kids.

1:11:00I think children like to have ownership and they like to have a say. And so if you invite them into the work early, there's a lot of buy-in that you may not see otherwise. Cara has literally helped hundreds of kids get their very first taste of healthy food. I made a commitment that I would spend the rest of my life trying to protect natural areas that other people could benefit from and experience. The land that we protect safeguards our communities.

1:11:31Like Stewart's fruit farm, family run since 1828. My dad's been approached since the 50s about selling the place. Big corporations to small developers. And I said, no, we're not going to sell. Kara fought for 10 years to save it. One man gave me a proposition. He said, oh, you've got two days to look it over. And I said to him, hmm, let me look at it. I took it and ripped it right in front of his face. I said, I need two days. I only needed two seconds. My dad passed it on to me, and we're going to pass it on to the next generation. Farms like this are becoming increasingly rare. It is really hard for them to survive.

1:12:11Mother Nature can be good, and it can be cruel. Two years ago, it rained every weekend, which hurt business, but cut it down about 40%. We had$100 left in our savings. But we made it. We got through. What happens when something like that is lost and suddenly it becomes a development? Just across the street from Stewart's, actually, there is a development. So a farm was developed fully, and so you can actually see what happens. I visited Stewart's as a child in school, and to see that farm finally permanently protected, words can't describe how meaningful it is. Oh, how you doing? How you feeling?

1:12:48Good. For me, this is personal. My dad spent decades protecting farmland in Maryland, including our own. Like the fence? This is where I had one of the schools. In my imaginary town, this was the school. Your mommy used to cut the grass. I actually recently asked my dad why he did that. He said it just felt good that the place that I love is never going to change. It can never be turned into a development. It was that love of land that my father had that has always inspired me and given me an appreciation. for what conservation can do. Your need is increasing right now, but the funding has gone down.

1:13:29I mean, it's part of all of the cuts in Washington and the things that are happening. I mean, how significant has the cuts been for you? It's put pressure on our other fundraising sources, and it's also just led to just an unknowing that leads to anxiety and just trying to figure out when we're going to need to replace the fence. What do you want people to know to sort of understand about the connection between eating healthier food and preserving the land, land conservation. We need land to grow food on. It's just that simple. If we don't have these farms, we won't have that local food. You grow your own tomatoes?

1:14:07Yeah, but not this year. Our gardener got destroyed by mint. The mint took over the garden. Oh, the mint? Oh.

1:14:19Erin joins me now. I didn't know your family had a farming past. That's fantastic. Such a nice personal tie here. So they're out there trying to hold onto these farms. Very moment when Washington is pulling back support. You can hear worry in her voice. And I just wonder how steep that climb is, not just for her, but for the country. I mean, it's incredible. You heard about 60 million acres across the country, Jim. This has been a bipartisan thing, right? in the West, championed over many years by Republicans, right, to preserve land. But she said literally that's what keeps her up at night, whether they can even fulfill their mission.

1:14:52Because that farm, for example, has lost 100 percent of its federal funding this year. So they're going to private sources, which is something, as you know, that's a Band-Aid, right? You can do that for a bit, but not for a long time. And this is being faced by, of course, nonprofits across the country. But this is a very tangible thing, right? Land and preservation, something that has traditionally in this country, right, back to Roosevelt, been a bipartisan thing. now very much under threat. But that one farm, Storch's Fruit Farm, I think brings it home. You know, across the street was another farm.

1:15:20It's now a development. Yeah. So it makes a difference. If you don't save it, you lose it, right? Sometimes a lot of history of that. Erin Burnett, thanks so much for shedding light on this story. Be sure to tune in. Saturday at 10 p.m. Eastern for the Champions for Change one-hour special hosted by Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Taylor Swift's lawyers are denying a claim that she agreed to be deposed in a high-profile case we've got the backstory. Plus, comedian Nate Bargazzi will host the Emmy Awards this Sunday, and he's got a plan to prevent long acceptance speeches. That's next.

1:15:59In our pop culture lead, Taylor Swift's attorneys are denying reports she agreed to sit for a deposition in an ongoing civil dispute as actress Blake Lively pursues claims of sexual harassment and retaliation against director Justin Baldoni. Baldoni's attorneys claimed in a court filing that Swift agreed to be deposed, but her lawyers say she'll only do it if the court forces her. An attorney for Swift wrote, quote, we take no role in those disputes. Also in our pop culture league, comedian Nate Bargatze will host the primetime Emmys this Sunday, and he's got a plan to try and keep accepted speeches brief.

1:16:37That's hard. He'll duck his$100 ,000 charity donation for every second a winner's speech runs long. So let's keep it short and get straight to Bargetzi's interview with our Elizabeth Wagmoister. Have you watched all the shows? I've seen a lot of commercials of the shows. If you're like Emmy host Nate Bargetzi and haven't seen all the nominated shows, well, you might still watch the Emmy Awards for this. You're making a$100 ,000 donation to the Boys and Girls Club of America, which is amazing that you're doing that. But there's a catch. Bargetzi says for every Emmy winner's acceptance speech that exceeds the allotted 45 seconds.

1:17:18And perfect choice of music. The donation shrinks by$1 ,000 per second. Ouch. The positive, too, if they go under, we will put money on top of it. Okay. So I would prefer them not all go that under because that can get pretty expensive. And the amount of money I give to Boys and Girls Club is totally up to all of Hollywood. Either way, Bargetsy can afford it. He's currently Billboard's number one selling stand-up comic in America. His tour grossed more than$80 million last year alone. For his first Hollywood hosting gig, he's getting advice from veterans like Nikki Glaser, Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, and Conan O 'Brien.

1:18:00They're all just kind of like, you just got to be you and trust that you know what you're doing. Fortunately, I learned that in other settings. And so I don't have to hopefully not learn it, you know, in front of Harrison Ford. Bargetzi says, sure, he'll joke about Hollywood, but in his trademark polite style, like the cancellation of nominee Stephen Colbert's late night show. Is that off limits? Are you going to address it? I think we'll say something, but it'll be done in a fun, playful way. That family-friendly comedic style has helped the Tennessee native gain wide appeal in an era where comedy often divides audiences.

1:18:38Bargetsy met his wife while working at Applebee's. Welcome my daddy, Nate Bargetsy! And his daughter introduces him at many of his shows. His father was a magician and a clown. I have to ask, did you have a fear of clowns growing up? Because a lot of kids do. I had a joke about like as I would say if you've been yelled at by clown because I have and it's pretty confusing to get yelled at by a guy that's got a smile painted on his face. Bargetsy doesn't fear the Emmy stage in fact this star can't wait to be starstruck. Who are you excited to see? Ben Stiller I'm excited to see. Well Severance has the most nominations so you will definitely meet Ben Stiller.

1:19:19We should cross paths. Yes.

1:19:24Jim, I have been covering award season for over a decade and Hollywood events always have a huge security presence. But in light of Charlie Kirk's murder, there have been questions about heightened security on Sunday night. Well, I reached out to the LAPD and they did acknowledge that they are sufficiently deployed and prepared to keep everyone safe at the Emmys. Good Lord. It's so sad we all I'll have to think about that so often now. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much. Hopefully there'll be some cause to laugh at the Emmys. Well, coming up on Sunday on State of the Union, Utah Governor Spencer Cox and Republican Senator James Lampford of Oklahoma.

1:20:01That's Sunday morning, 9 Eastern, again at noon, right here on CNN. You can follow me on X at Jim Sciutto or the show on X at the lead of CNN. If you ever miss an episode of the lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Aaron Burnett out front. Starts right now.