WH To Take Homan’s Minneapolis Immigration Playbook Nationwide

21 Feb 2026 · 1 h 5 min · 25 chapters

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Podcast Summary: The Lead with Jake Tapper

Episode Title

WH To Take Homan’s Minneapolis Immigration Playbook Nationwide

Host: Jake Tapper Air Date: [Insert Date Here] Episode Duration: 2 hours

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Episode Overview In this episode of *The Lead with Jake Tapper*, the discussions revolve around significant political developments, including President Trump's upcoming State of the Union address, immigration enforcement strategies, a Supreme Court ruling affecting Trump's economic policies, and a deep dive into ongoing investigations involving the British royal family.

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Key Topics and Discussions

  1. Trump's State of the Union Address
  2. Date: Scheduled for Tuesday night.
  3. Focus Areas:
  4. Economy
  5. Foreign policy
  6. Immigration (a pivotal issue in his 2020 electoral win)
  1. Immigration Enforcement Strategy
  2. New Approach: The Trump administration is set to adopt a more targeted immigration enforcement strategy.
  3. Background: This strategy draws on tactics used in Minneapolis by Tom Homan, a former ICE director, which emphasizes identifying specific individuals rather than conducting broad sweeps.
  4. Administration Dynamics: There are factions within the administration, with supporters of Homan's approach gaining prominence over the more aggressive tactics previously endorsed by figures like Kristi Noem and Gregory Bovino.
  1. Supreme Court Ruling on Tariffs
  2. Decision: The Supreme Court ruled against Trump, declaring his sweeping tariffs illegal, which was a cornerstone of his economic agenda.
  3. Trump's Reaction: He lashed out at the justices, particularly those he appointed, and indicated plans for a global 10% tariff under a different legal authority (Section 122).
  4. Implications: Concerns raised about the potential legal complexities and economic fallout, including the possibility of litigation regarding the return of billions collected from the tariffs.
  1. Investigation of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor
  2. Context: Following the arrest of the former prince, police are continuing investigations related to misconduct allegations, including interactions with Jeffrey Epstein.
  3. Public Sentiment: There is significant public pressure for the royal family to act, with polls indicating a strong desire for Andrew to be removed from the line of succession.

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Panel Discussion Highlights

  • Panelists: CNN reporters and analysts provided insights on the implications of Trump’s policy changes and the Supreme Court ruling.
  • Thematic Concerns:
  • The necessity for Trump to rebuild trust with the public regarding immigration enforcement.
  • The potential ramifications of the Supreme Court ruling on the administration's economic strategy.
  • The ongoing scrutiny of the British royal family amid serious allegations.

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Key Takeaways

  • Immigration Strategy Shift: The focus on targeted enforcement is seen as an attempt to mitigate public backlash against previous aggressive tactics.
  • Economic Policy Challenges: The Supreme Court's decision presents a critical obstacle for Trump’s economic policy, forcing him to rethink approaches moving forward.
  • Royal Family Crisis: The developments surrounding Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor could have lasting effects on public perception of the monarchy.

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Conclusion This episode of *The Lead* encapsulates current political strife within the U.S., emphasizing the interconnectedness of immigration policy, economic strategy, and public trust. It sets the stage for upcoming significant events, including the State of the Union address, while also highlighting international concerns regarding the British royal family.

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Note: For further insights and detailed discussions, listen to the full episode on your preferred podcast platform.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Immigration Enforcement Playbook

0:45 to 2:10

Discussion on Trump's targeted immigration enforcement strategy.

“who had the stamp of approval of the Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem.”

Public Perception and Trust

2:10 to 3:35

Exploring how the new immigration strategy aims to rebuild public trust.

“That's why the state of Minnesota, I think, is safer today, because law enforcement is working with law enforcement.”

Economic Challenges Ahead

3:35 to 6:20

Analyzing economic challenges and the implications of a recent Supreme Court ruling.

“So, Jeff, the president obviously is going to talk about the economy.”

Balancing Military Actions

6:20 to 7:40

Trump's potential military actions against Iran amidst domestic challenges.

“He actually feels like he's in a pretty good spot.”

Investigating Prince Andrew

8:00 to 11:40

Update on the investigation involving Prince Andrew and its implications.

“CNN royal correspondent Max Foster has all the latest from London.”

Reflection on Historical Events

11:40 to 14:00

Discussion with Melba Petillo-Beals about her experiences during school integration.

“After Vegas happened, those bullets shattered that safety.”

Melba Beals Reflects on Little Rock Nine

14:00 to 16:48

Learn about Melba Beals' harrowing experiences and reflections on the civil rights movement.

“Eisenhower invoked the Insurrection Act to deploy the military, the 101st Airborne Division of the U.S.”

Jake Tapper Introduces the Episode

16:49 to 18:50

Discover the key topics and guests for the episode, including a Supreme Court ruling.

“This hour President Trump lashes out after the U.S.”

Analysis of Supreme Court Tariff Ruling

18:51 to 22:20

Explore the implications of the Supreme Court's ruling on Trump's tariffs and economic policy.

“government, as President Trump pointed out.”

Victor Schwartz Discusses Victory

22:21 to 27:06

Hear from Victor Schwartz about his victory against Trump’s tariffs and its impact on small businesses.

“This is going to be a lawyerful employment act as all of this will be litigated.”
Show all 25 chapters

Supreme Court's Ruling on Tariffs

28:13 to 29:05

Discussion on the Supreme Court ruling affecting Trump's tariffs and its implications.

“ruling that President Trump's sweeping emergency tariffs are illegal.”

Economic Impacts of Tariffs

29:05 to 31:28

Analyzing the economic consequences of tariffs on various businesses and international negotiations.

“And I've never been a big fan of tariffs.”

Trump's Global Tariff Plans

31:28 to 34:00

Exploring Trump's potential global tariffs and the constitutional implications of his actions.

“And so$175 to$200 billion have been raised by the tariffs.”

Introduction to Child Safety Lawsuit

34:00 to 34:17

Introduction to the segment on the lawsuit against Apple regarding child sexual abuse material.

“Coming up next, I'm going to be joined live by the State Attorney General who's suing Apple, claiming that the company knowingly allowed the distribution of child sexual abuse material.”

Lawsuit Against Apple Explained

34:26 to 36:32

Details of the lawsuit against Apple and the evidence being presented.

“Because WiesoSteuer shows the payment live.”

Privacy Concerns in Technology

36:32 to 39:47

Discussion on privacy concerns related to technology in fighting child exploitation.

“because critics said it could undermine privacy for all of Apple's users.”

Christian Education and National Identity

42:03 to 43:30

Explore how classical Christian schools shape students' worldview and cultural influence.

“At classical Christian schools, religion isn't a standalone subject.”

Political Reactions to Supreme Court Tariff Ruling

43:30 to 44:30

Discussion on the implications of the Supreme Court ruling against Trump's tariffs.

“They don't raise children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.”

Trump's Statements on Supreme Court Justices

44:30 to 46:40

Analyzing Trump's harsh criticism of the Supreme Court justices who ruled against him.

“I'm going to ask the producer and director of the Age of Disclosure documentary.”

The Legal Basis for Tariffs and Presidential Authority

46:40 to 49:10

Understanding the constitutional limits of presidential power regarding tariffs.

“his State of the Union address and criticized the decision of the court in the Citizens United?”

Impact of Tariffs on American Consumers

49:10 to 51:40

Examining how Trump's tariffs affected consumers and the broader economy.

“Right or wrong, that's what the Supreme Court decided today.”

Eric Dane's Legacy and ALS Awareness

51:40 to 53:00

Reflecting on actor Eric Dane's message in his final interview amid his battle with ALS.

“The 53-year-old actor, best known for the iconic roles of Dr.”

Government Files on Extraterrestrial Life

53:00 to 55:50

Discussion on Trump's directive to release files regarding aliens and UFOs.

“files related to aliens, extraterrestrial life, UFOs, and unidentified aerial phenomenon.”

Geopolitical Implications of Presidential Order

56:00 to 57:06

Learn about the international repercussions and strategic shifts following a major presidential order.

“In other words, there are these craft that crash or whatever, and then to reverse engineer, figure out how they were built.”

Impact of Documentary Filmmaking

57:06 to 57:18

Explore the significance of impact in documentary filmmaking and its effects.

“I can't think of anything that a documentary filmmaker wants more than impact.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:01Our politics lead now, President Trump is going to speak to Congress and the nation next Tuesday night in his State of the Union address. The economy and foreign policy will be, in all likelihood, among the major issues. Immigration will also likely be one of his biggest topics, given that it was one of the issues that helped him win a second term. My panel of CNN's, some of CNN's best, joins me now. Priscilla, let's start with you. You have some new reporting today. The Trump administration plans to emphasize its targeted immigration enforcement and will essentially take the playbook that it's currently using in Minneapolis, not necessarily, like a month or two ago, and apply it nationwide.

0:36So this is a departure from the more aggressive Bovino-Nome tactics. It's a rebuke of the tactics that have been used over the last year by Gregory Bovino, the top Border Patrol official, who had the stamp of approval of the Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem. And in many ways, what Tom Homan ushered into Minneapolis is what the Immigration and Customs Enforcement typically did. It was the targeted approach, which is to say they identify who they're going to go after. They strategize. They conduct the operation. And if someone else, another undocumented immigrant is in the vicinity, then that person can be picked up as well.

1:10But the idea here is that it could look different. It's not that they're softening the immigration crackdown. That's what all of my sources stress. It's that the way that the American public will consume it, they hope, is different, which is to say that there's not going to be those broad immigration sweeps in areas trafficked by immigrants that can look disorganized and were under intense scrutiny and hit a boiling point in Minneapolis. but rather it's going to be more of what people anticipate, which is those targeted operations where they know who they're going after. And Tom Homan himself on CNN described how he moved toward that approach in Minneapolis.

1:47Take a listen. I've made changes. I created a unified chain of commands. Everybody's reporting up in one chain. I wanted to make sure it was targeted enforcement operations. I don't think it was happening in all instances. But I think the most important thing I did, I talked to the mayor. I talked to the governor. I talked to the attorney general. We can't fix things talking in the echo chamber. We got to talk to the other side, and that's how we fix things. That's how we got the unprecedented cooperation. That's why the state of Minnesota, I think, is safer today, because law enforcement is working with law enforcement.

2:18Now, this is the playbook that the administration wants to take to multiple cities nationwide. I asked the White House about this. They said the president's team is working together. But, of course, notably, there are different factions within the administration in regards to the approach. And right now it's the Hohman faction that is seen as the one charged with immigration enforcement. Right. But in the public's mind right now, it's the gnome Stephen Miller Bovino faction that is most resonant. The deaths of Renee Good, the deaths of Alex Preddy, being so confrontational with American citizens and on and on.

2:50How do you think the president might address that in the State of the Union? I think the president is likely to take on the theme that the administration has been going with over the last year, which is to talk about the agitators and protesters, but not, or I don't foresee him naming Alex Preddy and Renee Good specifically, but it is, he's going to have to navigate the context, the moment that we're in where the American public lost the trust, or rather the White House lost the trust of the American public in how they're conducting immigration enforcement, and he's going to have to usher back in that confidence, and that's what they're hoping Holman's playbook does across the United States, and I can see how the president is going to try to do that as well by, again, reinforcing that we're going after the worst of the worst, exactly what he did at the White House podium not long ago when Minneapolis was starting to get very tense.

3:39So, Jeff, the president obviously is going to talk about the economy. That's been an issue also that he's struggled to convince the American people that things are going the way he wants. And now, of course, this huge rebuke from the U.S. Supreme Court, you know, wiping away his tariff regime that was the centerpiece of his economic policy. I mean, I guess it's possible he'll go in front of Congress, a joint session, and say that the Supreme Court justices are unpatriotic and in the pocket of foreign influence and all the other insults he made today. But how do you think his advisors want him to approach?

4:12I mean, talking to White House officials and advisors, they hoped he got that out of his system today when he was doing an extraordinarily vitriolic assessment of this. I mean, we have seen the president do many, many rants over the years. This was another level. I mean, directly going after the Supreme Court justices, a couple of which he appointed to the Supreme Court. So I do not expect him to do that next week when some of the Supreme Court justices are sitting just a few feet away from him in the House chamber. We'll see if if Neil Gorsuch or Amy Coney Barrett actually go. We know the chief justice that will be there.

4:47But what the president wants to do or what his advisors want the president to do is effectively talk about his plan B going forward, how tariffs are still at the center of his policy. But things are different in every respect. He talked about a 10 percent global tariff under Section 122. There is a limit to that for 150 days without congressional approval. There is no chance, very little chance in this Congress at this point of a midterm election year that Congress would extend that. So I think it'll be very interesting to see if he sort of downplays the defeat in the Supreme Court because it makes him look weak.

5:22And the eye is on China. He's going to China next month. I mean, this is a huge deal for his leverage. So that was the biggest blow today for his power on the world stage, his leverage to other world leaders. That's been taken away from him. And just you and I are old enough to remember 16 years ago, President Obama had a State of the Union where he criticized the Supreme Court decision as dead wrong, the Citizens United decision. And a whole bunch of Republican senators were so upset that he did that. Silent today, completely silent. And Alito has not been back to a state of union since then.

5:52And he said, not true. But that is a different lifetime. So, Kylie, Trump often likes to brag about all the wars that he has ended. You know, truth of that notwithstanding. He's currently weighing the idea of maybe starting a war, at least conducting serious military strikes against Iran. How does he balance that with his no new wars America first message? I think it's a really unique challenge for him going into the State of the Union just because he's already on his heels when it comes to immigration, when it comes to tariffs and when it comes to foreign policy. He actually feels like he's in a pretty good spot.

6:28And so when you look at where he is psychologically right now, one line that struck me today when he was speaking at the White House about the Supreme Court ruling was I can do whatever I want. If that is psychologically impacting him when he thinks about Iran, he has so many of the Middle Eastern countries telling him not to go for strikes in Iran. The U.K. just recently told the United States that they couldn't use British bases to carry out these strikes inside Iran. And so if the president is, you know, psychologically on his heels right now, there may be a point where that impacts him trying to go ahead with these strikes because it makes him look strong.

7:05And I think the State of the Union is all about the projection of that strength. It's not necessarily exactly about how the American public will respond, but how he looks to the American public, how he's perceived. Thanks to all of you. Really appreciate it. CNN, of course, is going to have special coverage of President Trump's State of the Union address next Tuesday. Look for the speech plus in-depth analysis before and after the address. That's next Tuesday night starting at 8 p.m. Eastern. Watch on CNN or on the new CNN app. Law enforcement in the United Kingdom say they could be searching homes related to Andrew Mountbatten Windsor.

7:35That's the former Prince Andrew. Into next week, the latest on the investigation into Andrew next.

7:49Back in the Law and Justice League, one day after the arrest of the former Prince Andrew, police in the United Kingdom say the search of his former home will likely continue until Monday. This as the British royal family faces its biggest crisis in decades. CNN royal correspondent Max Foster has all the latest from London. You might just say, how are you feeling after your brother's arrest? Keep calm and carry on. Britain's wartime motto, seemingly what King Charles is going with as his brother Andrew's legal woes unfold. Charles promises full support for the investigation, saying the law must take its course.

8:26We're now learning that London police are now contacting former Prince Andrew's personal protection officers. They're also assessing US DOJ documents, suggesting that London airports were being used to facilitate human trafficking. But as searches continued at one of Andrew's former properties on Friday, experts warning the investigation into the former prints could be slow. Looking for offences relating to any potential misconduct in public office. So documents, emails, electronic messages, those sort of materials, which obviously these days can be held on like flash drives and USBs. So it would be a very slow and methodical search.

9:05Now released from custody, police haven't said what led to Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor's arrest on suspicion of misconduct in public office, but it came after a tranche of documents relating to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were made public by the US Department of Justice. Some of the emails released appear to allegedly show Andrew sending confidential UK government trade material to the late Epstein. Whilst the appearance of someone's name in the files is not evidence of wrongdoing, Thames Valley Police previously said it was assessing whether Andrew shared confidential material with Epstein during his time as a UK trade envoy from 2001 to 2011.

9:48The former prince hasn't responded to the newest allegations, but he has consistently denied any wrongdoing related to Epstein, even claiming he terminated his friendship with a convicted sex offender back in 2010. Still, the sheer complexity and publicity around the case, also why some experts believe it may take some time for police to finish their investigation. There's not a great deal of sympathy, but the police have a duty of care to everybody they arrest. They want to make sure that he receives all the support. Whilst the authorities go through due process, the UK government is now coming under more pressure to act.

10:25And that's because Andrew, despite being stripped of his titles, is still eighth in line to the throne. According to a poll released on Friday, 82 percent of Britons want him removed from the line of succession. So far, the government seems to be keen to see the investigation play out. But with mounting calls from lawmakers and the public, that resolve may be tested in the weeks to come. And our thanks to CNN's Mac Foster there. Coming up next, looking back at the fallout from another major Supreme Court decision, hear from a member of the Little Rock Nine how she courageously confronted others who tried to resist what the court's deemed unconstitutional.

11:23Sage was always this place that, for all my life, that was safe for me. Something broke in me when that happened. My guest is Eric Church. He's had an incredible career in music. Eric is 48 now with a long list of hits under his belt. But Eric also knows loss. After Vegas happened, those bullets shattered that safety. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts. And the National League had a chance to hear from a survivor who helped shape a key moment in U.S. history, Melba Petillo-Beals, one of the Little Rock Nine.

12:03She was one of the nine black students who bravely faced angry mobs in 1957 to integrate Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas. Bill spoke with CNN about what she went through and how aspects of what she went through could be repeated today. CNN's Ellie Honig has her story. When Melba Petillo Beals and her black classmates first tried to enter Little Rock Central High School, they were blocked by an angry mob. Your dad, you know, you're not going to live. You might as well put your books down. You're not going to live to study. In 1954, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a historic ruling, Brown v.

12:40Board of Education. In a unanimous 9-0 decision, the court prohibited racial segregation in public schools and declared an end to so-called Jim Crow separate but equal laws. Despite the Supreme Court's ruling, it would be three years until Arkansas high schools would integrate. Melba Beals, then just 15 years old, would be part of the first group of black students at Little Rock Central High School. Now, originally there were 116 African-American children set to go to Central High School. A man, a white man, came to our house and knocked on the door. This is not going to be good for you. We're going to kill you and your relatives.

13:21And there was physical violence directed at you and your family as well. Physical doesn't begin to explain it. Shooting in the window. The intimidation did deter some students. Only Melba and eight others ended up attending. Together, they would become known as the Little Rock Nine. My grandmother said, look, you're born on this earth to do certain things. And if that's what you're here for, then you have no choice. The first time they tried to enter the school, Melba and her black classmates were met by an angry mob. Arkansas Governor Orville Faubus had activated the Arkansas National Guard to block the black students from entering the school.

13:59Later that month, President Dwight D. Eisenhower invoked the Insurrection Act to deploy the military, the 101st Airborne Division of the U.S. Army, to escort the students into Little Rock Central High School. I have today issued an executive order directing the use of troops under federal authority to aid in the execution of federal law at Little Rock, Arkansas. What would have happened if President Eisenhower never utilized the 101st to protect you? I wouldn't be sitting here. I'd be very dead. Not a little dead, very dead. What was your time at Little Rock Central like? It was a horror movie.

14:41Put acid in my eyes. I see, for example, as I look at that light, floaters go across. Pull on my hair, try to cut off my ponytail. I would go to the bathroom and they would drop lit pieces of fire paper with matches and drop them over. While Milba knew her role was important, the burden and the sacrifice were almost too much for her to bear. But when Martin Luther King Jr. visited the Little Rock Nine, he made it clear that their mission was much bigger. You met with Martin Luther King? I did. And he said, Milba, you're not doing this for yourself. You're doing this for generations yet unborn.

15:19This was hardly the first time she'd faced challenges. As a black child born in 1941 in the segregated South, Melba Petillo Beals faced racism in every part of her life. We'd go in public and they'd call us the N-word all the time. So what it was like, it was a living hell. Because from the beginning of my little spirit said, hey, you don't treat me that way. As a child, Melba witnessed unspeakable acts of violence. Five years of age, I'm sitting in a church. And so all of a sudden, this back door opened. And there were probably, I don't know, 100, more than 100 people. And in walked these dudes in their white sheets.

15:59And I know what that meant. It's a clan, right? They went right after this man. And there were rafters in this church. And they strung a rope over the rafters. I was too little to look up to his face. But I could see his feet dangling as they were hanging him. And I could hear the grrr in his throat, you know. I've never forgotten that. In 1999, President Bill Clinton awarded Melba and the other members of the Little Rock Nine the Congressional Gold Medal for their role in the civil rights movement. Given her own lived experience, Melba worries about what she sees unfolding today. Sending troops is not the answer.

16:36Eisenhower sent in troops because Faubus was not in compliance. And so I think that in the end, will we regret what's going on now? Let's wait and see. Ellie Honig, CNN. Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour President Trump lashes out after the U.S. Supreme Court rules his sweeping tariffs are, in their view, illegal. But some small businesses are celebrating the decision, including my first guest, the lead plaintiff, who brought the case against the White House. He's going to join us live in moments. Plus, West Virginia is suing Apple, claiming that Apple knowingly allowed the distribution of child sexual abuse materials.

17:16The state's attorney general is going to join us live to explain his allegations and what he wants to see change. Also, remembering Eric Dane, the Grey's Anatomy and Euphoria star who died tragically at the age of 53 after a battle with ALS. Hear the message he left behind in an interview he did under the condition it would only be released after he passed away. And are we alone in the universe? Are aliens real? What exactly do we know about UFOs? Some of those questions could soon be answered as President Trump directs the government to release files about alien life. The director of the documentary, The Age of Disclosure, is here to react ahead.

17:58The late tonight, President Trump disappointed and defiant after the U.S. Supreme Court handed him a rare loss on a major issue, tariffs. In a 63 ruling, the conservative majority court found Trump violated federal law when he unilaterally imposed sweeping tariffs across the globe. Still, the president today cited other ways to enact tariffs, saying he's immediately going to enact a 10 percent global tariff under a trade law known as Section 122. And what happens to the whopping$130 billion in tariffs already collected? Well, the U.S. Supreme Court did not lay out how the government should handle that.

18:33And in his dissenting opinion, Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote, quote, the court says nothing today about whether and if so how the government should go about returning the billions of dollars that it has collected from importers. But that process is likely to be a mess, as was acknowledged at Oral argument, unquote. So corporations are now expected to sue to get refunds from the U.S. government, as President Trump pointed out. Wouldn't you think they would have put one sentence in there saying that keep the money or don't keep the money, right? I guess it has to get litigated for the next two years.

19:08Let's bring in CNN's Paula Reid and Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Kristen? Yeah, and you heard him there. He sounded incredibly angry. Just remember, one of the things that they were counting on some of this tariff revenue to actually pay for was to pay for at least part or a hefty part of these giant tax cuts that President Trump himself put into place in that one big, beautiful bill. But in addition to that, these tariffs are a key part of not only his economic agenda, but also how he's been handling foreign policy. He has used them as leverage. He has gone into every single meeting touting these tariffs and trying to hang them over various countries' heads.

19:43And you could tell just how personally he took this, not just by the justices who he had appointed, but in particular, he was asked about two of them, Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch, who ruled against him in this case. Here's what he said. Are you surprised in particular by their decision today? And do you regret nominating them? I don't want to say whether or not I regret. I think their decision was terrible.

20:14I think it's an embarrassment to their families. You want to know the truth, the two of them. J.K., an embarrassment to their families. Again, you can see how personally he took this. At a certain point, he said that he was ashamed of certain justices. He was clearly referring to those, too. And he also praised Kavanaugh, who wrote the dissent on this, saying that his stock is really rising and that he's really proud of him. He did say that he was not going to uninvite. Not not clear that's actually his decision to make. But he did say he wasn't going to uninvite any of these justices from his State of the Union on Tuesday.

20:47He said they were barely invited and he didn't care if they came or not. Yeah, I don't think it's it's the Speaker of the House invites the president to deliver the address. It's in the Constitution. But OK. Paula, based on this Supreme Court ruling, what potential legal options does Trump have now to still try to have some control over a tariff regime? Well, Jake, he definitely has options. And in the middle of this press conference attacking the Supreme Court, he did lay out some of the ones that he's considering, including Section 122. Now, here, though, this law allows the president to levy a tariff of up to 15 percent, but only for about 150 days.

21:26There's also Section 232. You'd have to find national security grounds, and it can only be used to target specific sectors. Also requires an investigation, which takes time. Section 301, you'd have to investigate countries that you believe were potentially violating trade agreements or practices. And then, interestingly, there is Section 338. This is interesting because it's never actually been implemented by any president, but you'd have to find that a country was engaging in trade practices that discriminate against the U.S. The concern here, though, is using this one could violate World Trade Organization agreements.

22:01So as the president said in his press conference, this is going to be more complicated. He said he took the path that he took because it was going to be more simple. But the Supreme Court is not going to allow you to just take power that was clearly delegated, they believe, to Congress for simplicity's sake. So the real winners today here, Jake, lawyers and accountants. This is going to be a lawyerful employment act as all of this will be litigated. All right. Christian Holmes, Paul Reed. Thanks. Let's talk it all. Talk about it all with Victor Schwartz. He was the lead plaintiff in the case. He runs New York based wine and spirits importer VOS selections.

22:38Victor, we've had you on the show multiple times. You should get a jacket at this point. And now you just won this historic case. It has economic impact for Americans and for you. How are you feeling? pretty amazing you know to think of uh 40 years ago when i started vos selections that at this point in time i'd be in a suit standing up for the rights of all small small businesses in america and winning at the supreme court i mean you know there's no way to describe that that feeling of elation it is kind of a moment just to take a step forgetting the decision and forgetting the politics of it, the fact that a small business owner can challenge something that the most powerful person in the country, if not the world, has done, and our system of checks and balances still allows that sort of thing, and you're victorious and he's not.

23:32It is, you know, I mean, it is, you have to take a step back as an American and say, we really live in a great country. I've been saying that all day. I mean, and that's what this country's based on, rule of law. And that's what makes us a great economic country as well. Great place to do business. And that's why it's so important to continually follow the rule of law. So the court offered no clarity on the practical question of what about the money the administration's already collected, tens of billions through the tariffs? President Trump today said this is going to end up likely being litigated in the courts for years.

24:09I don't think he's wrong there. Do you think that you're ever going to see any tariff money refunded? I have two answers to that. First of all, it's not complicated. And this is just more obfuscation on the part of the administration. We pay our customs and duties on every container that comes in. Everything has a code on it, whether it's for gallonage tax or value tax, etc., etc. And it gets transferred electronically, as well as the IEPA tariff tax. There's absolutely no reason you can't just press a button and return that. And there are a lot of much sharper minds than myself that say that.

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24:50The administration is just only trying to put up smokescreens about this. There's no question. How will it impact your business if you do not get any sort of repayment? Well, that's the second part. Even if we don't, this is still an amazing victory for us because it allows us to move forward with clarity and stability, something we have not had either of all throughout 2025 since we were liberated in April. The president also says he's looking at other ways to impose tariffs. Are you worried about that? Worry is not the right word. We had a big victory today. There's a reason. It's not random that he used IEPA.

25:32who is a backdoor and, as we've discovered today, through the Supreme Court, a conservative Supreme Court, in a legal way to impose tariffs. Now he will have to impose tariffs legally. Tariffs are a tax, which is a sign, most taxes are assigned to Congress. There's been a lot of pushback. You can see here, as your reporter mentioned, it's 150 days. It has to be a specific tax. It has to have a reason. It can't be, I don't like the color of your tie, or I don't like the way you talk to me or some other just random, ridiculous kinds of things that he's been proposing out there for reasons for putting on tariffs.

26:13It has to be economic. And that's what this is all about. We focus on the economics and on the legality. We are in a fine place. What has been the impact of these tariffs on VOS importers? You import wine and spirits from all over the world, obviously, you've been hit. Have you had to lay off employees? Have you had to raise prices? What's been the impact? We didn't lay off employees. That would really be the nuclear option, I would say. Certainly cutting back inventory, reducing the number of suppliers we work with. You know, we don't have access to the capital markets. So it's very tough on our cash flow.

26:57So we've stretched and stretched and stretched. It's been very impactful. Victor Schwartz, Victor Schwartz, congratulations on your big victory. Really appreciate having you on. Much more on our top story in moments. I'm going to be joined live by The Economist, who was mentioned by President Trump during his remarks today. What did Stephen Moore and President Trump talk about when they met at the White House earlier? I'll ask him.

27:26Here's the podcast. I am your host, Michael Ian Black. I have nothing to hide. I've been exonerated, totally exonerated on Epstein. Yeah. The exonerated thing. Like, it's the word he learned. I don't think he even knows what it means. Come on. He knows what exonerated means. He's been on trial enough times. He's been exonerated a number of times. To me, it's the 1980s ran for president and won. Right. Why isn't the music more interesting? YMCA. Gloria. I'm going to say the glory of my mind. Michael Crawford receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Have I Got News for Your Ears releases new episodes every Wednesday.

28:07Don't miss an episode. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts. In our money leave, the Supreme Court dealing a major blow to President Trump's economic agenda earlier today, ruling that President Trump's sweeping emergency tariffs are illegal. In remarks shortly after the decision, President Trump lashed out at the court attacking the justices in the 6-3 majority opinion and announced he would rely on other legal authorities to keep tariffs in place, if not those specific tariffs. Let's discuss with former Trump advisor Stephen Moore, who President Trump said he met with yesterday to discuss the state of the economy.

28:40Stephen, let's start there. The president appeared to say that you told him the economy was booming because of the tariffs. If so, why do you think that is and what happens next? Well, I didn't exactly say that. I did say to the president that we have a very strong economy, and I believe that, and I believe it's getting stronger. But Jake, I'm going to have to be your two-handed economist today on the one hand, on the other hand, on this decision. Because on the one hand, just as you had that interview with the man who brought this case, those tariffs have had a negative effect on many medium-sized businesses, small businesses, some retailers, manufacturers who've really been hurt by the tariffs.

29:22And I've never been a big fan of tariffs. On the other hand, one of the negative repercussions of this decision, Jake, will be the fact that Trump has been a kind of master negotiator with some of these other countries, China, Japan, Canada, the Europeans, in using the threat of these tariffs to get other countries to play by the rules, to reduce their tariffs on American goods and services, and to bring hundreds of billions of dollars of capital in the United States. And guess what? Now with the Supreme Court decision, he can't play that card in negotiating, let's say, with the leaders of China.

29:59So that weakens his hand. I mean, just in point of fact, as you know, the fees, the tariffs were paid by importers, not by the foreign countries. I know you know that. What do you see as the immediate - But hold on, Jacob. If that were the case, then why would they complain? Why would China complain. Look, there's all sorts of theories about who pays the tariffs. Certainly, consumers bear some of the costs, the importers bear the cost, but certainly the people in the countries that produce the goods and services pay. So, you know, it's an open question about who exactly pays, but certainly consumers do pay some of that cost, and it has had some negative effects, no question about it.

30:39What do you see as the immediate impact of this U.S. Supreme Court decision for Americans, as well as on a global scale? Well, you know, you several times have used, and your correspondents have used the word complicated, and that's, I think, the word of the day, complicated, because this was a complicated court decision. As you said, we don't even know yet whether these terrorists will have to be repaid by the government to the businesses that paid them. So there's a lot to be sorted out here. But I think that one of the points that Trump made is that this may benefit some of our enemies, like China, if they don't have to comply with the tariffs and send money.

31:22And by the way, the tariffs have raised money for the United States government to reduce our deficit. And so$175 to$200 billion have been raised by the tariffs. If that money has to be returned, what impact will that have on our deficit and so on? So there's a lot of open questions here that have to be handled. After today's ruling, President Trump said he would now impose a global 10 % tariff based on, I think it's called Rule 122. What's your message to the president about that? I think it's limited to 150 days and then he has to get congressional authorization. It's not in perpetuity. What might the impact of it be though?

31:59Well, you know, I've always felt like if, you know, a across the board tariff of say 10 or 15%, It would raise money. It might help some American businesses that compete with countries like Japan and China, etc. And so I wouldn't be totally opposed to that, especially if we use the money to reduce our deficit or to cut other taxes that hurt our businesses. What I haven't liked is the taxes on things like steel and aluminum and coffee beans and so on, because those really have had a negative impact on the economy. And one of the reasons coffee prices went up, Jake, was because we had a tariff on coffee beans.

32:38Yeah. One of the interesting things from today's decision was a concurring opinion from Neil Gorsuch, whom the president appointed to the bench. And one of the things he said was, the way we do this is, I'm paraphrasing, but the way we do this is we pass laws. We go to Congress, we pass laws. Yes. Republicans control the House. Republicans control the Senate. why not go to the House and Senate to get the kind of terrorist regime that the president wants? Yeah, look, this is a really important point you're making. And I agree with it, that the Constitution is pretty clear that tax bills start in the House of Representatives, and the president does not have unilateral authority to raise terrorists, except in special cases of a national emergency or national security.

33:27And so, and I tell some of my conservative friends, look, if Kamala Harris had won the presidency and she said that we've got a climate crisis and we have to tax other countries with tariffs, you know, we wouldn't like that too much. So I think the court made the right decision here in terms of saying, look, this has to be approved by Congress. And you're quite right. You know, if these tariffs are going to be imposed, the next step is to take it to the House and take in the Senate and see if he can get the votes to do it. I doubt he can, but that is the next legal step to getting the tariffs imposed.

33:59Stephen Moore, always good to have you on, sir. Thank you so much. Have a great weekend. Coming up next, I'm going to be joined live by the State Attorney General who's suing Apple, claiming that the company knowingly allowed the distribution of child sexual abuse material. Stick with us.

34:17Okay, Nicola, quizfrage. Home Office Barstader oder Fahrtkosten? Was bringt uns mehr? Moment, I'll check that out. Oha, Home Office wins. It brings us more than 150 euros a year. Right, but why do you know something? Because WiesoSteuer shows the payment live. That's just the tax app for all cases. Yes, and she also answers questions. 24-7 and without a German. That's just the app that understands us. Steuern completed. Safe. With WiesoSteuer. Now try to try it out.

34:51that the tech giant allows child sexual abuse material to be stored and distributed on its iCloud services. The lawsuit claims that Apple is prioritizing user privacy over child safety. Part of Apple's statement to CNN says, quote, at Apple, protecting the safety and privacy of our users, especially children, is central to what we do. We are innovating every day to combat ever evolving threats and maintain the safest, most trusted platform for kids, unquote. Leading the lawsuit against Apple is West Virginia Attorney General J.B. McCuskey, who joins us now. General McCuskey, good to have you on the go.

35:25What specific evidence does your office have to support these allegations against Apple? Yeah, so the most important bit of evidence that we have, there's really two pieces, Jake. The first is that in 2024, Google and Meta reported almost 35 million CSAM images to law enforcement, including the FBI, while Apple reported 248. So what we know is that the technology exists for these images to be scanned and found and reported to the proper authorities. And not only do they exist, but they're being used by Apple's competitors in a way that is truly removing an enormous amount of this content from online.

36:08The second thing we know is that Apple executives joked about their small level of reporting through CSAM. And even at one point saying, we believe Apple is the best conduit or the best platform for the distribution of child pornography in the world. And so these are facts and the technology exists and they're just not willing to do it. So in 2021, Apple abandoned its plan to check users' photos for child sexual abuse material because critics said it could undermine privacy for all of Apple's users. Now, you say that other companies are able to do it. I mean, I think like if, you know, if I had magical powers and I said, okay, you can go find these horrible materials, but don't violate the privacy of people who aren't breaking the law, that would be great.

37:01But I don't know how that's done. Yeah. So it's actually a fairly simple process, Jake. And I will tell you, I'm not going to comment on whether or not you have magical powers or not. I'm sure some people think you do. But, you know, at the end of the day, when we're getting 35 million of these images offline without harming the user privacy of everyone that uses Facebook and Google, which is basically everyone, what we know is this is doable. And the other thing that we know is that our law enforcement partners, not just here in West Virginia, but nationwide are clamoring for this to happen. Because just one specific example, a friend of mine who owns a car dealership just the other day was selling a car to a guy and he was swiping through his phone to show his insurance card that he had taken a picture of.

37:47And the salesperson saw child explicit material on his iPhone. And the only way that this person was found is because that salesperson was able to sell this person the car, call the authorities, and this guy opened up his phone for the authorities and he got arrested. This just happened three days ago. And these are all images that can easily be found through AI, through filtering products that both Google and Meta are using right now. But don't those filtering, again, I'm not, I mean, these materials are horrible and everybody should be arrested, but don't those filtering materials, whether it's AI or whatever, isn't that violating people's privacy?

38:21I'm not taking a position here, but is that not just like de facto on Facebook violating people's privacy? So it's not pursuant to the agreement that people sign when they sign up for Facebook or use the Google Cloud. And Apple has specifically removed all language about their platform having any kind of filters at all. And so, you know, So I think the point here, Jake, is that God-fearing decent Americans who are abhorred by these kinds of behaviors that people that target and harm children are fine with an anonymous AI platform looking through their photographs and making sure there aren't naked children in them.

39:03Yeah, I mean, I'm God-fearing and I find it abhorrent. I'm just raising the questions. West Virginia Attorney General. No, I got you. I just sort of worked up on this one. Yeah, no, I hear you. But I mean, you will acknowledge that there are concerns. You just don't agree with them. Yeah. And so I think the concern is real. Right. And to be fair, my kids have Apple products. I'm being broadcast to you right now on an Apple iPad. And there's a lot of things Apple does that makes it easier for me to be a parent. Time limits in their statements sort of speak to that. And they say, we want to protect children.

39:35Well, they do actually protect children from seeing bad images. What they don't do is protect children who are being trafficked and abused and having photographs taken of them. And so they're really two different things. And it's a little bit of a gaslighting exercise in their statement there, just in general, in my opinion. Attorney General J.B. McCuskey of the great state of West Virginia. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it, sir. Thanks, Jake. Have a great weekend, everybody. You too. And next, a school where teachers are trying to raise a generation that will transform the U.S. into what they call a Christian nation.

40:04Nation. Stay with us.

40:12In our National League, blurring the separation between church and state this week at the Pentagon, Douglas Wilson, a controversial pastor who believes that homosexuality should be a crime and supports repealing women's rights to vote and replacing it with household voting. Well, that pastor had led a worship service saying he had been invited by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. The Pentagon spokesman later put out a statement explaining, quote, Secretary Hegseth, along with millions of Americans, is a proud Christian and was glad to welcome Pastor Wilson to the Pentagon on Tuesday. Despite the left's efforts to remove our Christian heritage from our great nation, Secretary Hegseth is among those who embrace it.

40:47A source who attended the service tells CNN that Wilson's message was pretty vanilla and steered clear of political rhetoric. That was not the case last night in Tennessee, where Hegseth railed against what he called the godless left during a speech at a religious broadcaster's convention. Gone is godless and divisive DEI. Gone is gender bending equity in quotas. Gone is climate change worship to a false god. Ancient and godless societies viewed the individual as subordinate to the state or the collective. The godless left today still sees it that way. Those attitudes are not just in effect at the Pentagon.

41:28CNN's Pamela Brown is here to tell us more. Well, Jake, at the foundation of this Christian nationalist movement that Pastor Doug Wilson is a part of, as well as Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, is education. It's a key part of its mission. Today, more and more schools are teaching kids everything from a biblical perspective, and it's all part of this growing network of classical Christian schools. The hope is that students go on into powerful positions and spread a Christian message, basically to reconstruct society to make America more Christian. Let's take a watch. At classical Christian schools, religion isn't a standalone subject.

42:08It shapes every lesson from science to history through a strict and literal biblical worldview. Each morning at this school, they even pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, not the American flag. We want to enculturate Christian kids. And when we say that, we mean deeply Christian kids, ones who think like biblical Christians all the way down. So do you teach the kids here this is a Christian nation, this was founded as a Christian nation? Absolutely, yes. Pastor Jeff's son Caleb and daughter-in-law EJ are the headmaster and headmistress at the school where they plan to send their nine children.

42:47Kinley is also a teacher. We want to equip students to go to higher places than we've gone to influence culture. Like we want to make more Christians. We want to spread the gospel. So as they're infiltrating into culture, they're influencing the culture to Christ. And so basically it's all part of a mission to make this a Christian nation. Absolutely. For some, the choice to place your kids in public schools isn't just wrong. It can be a sin. You think it is a sin? I think it is because in most areas, the education is coming from the state. And that was not what God intended from the beginning.

43:31They don't raise children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. If you're a Christian, what justification do you have for putting your child in a situation where they're not getting that? And Jake, we had talked earlier about Defense Secretary Pete Hexeth. He has written about how he and his wife moved to Tennessee specifically to send their children to a classical Christian school. And David Goodwin, who you heard there, runs that association. He also co-wrote a book with Hegs on Education. So you can start to see all these figures and ideologies are connected. Something I explore closely in my upcoming documentary on The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper this Sunday at 8 p.m.

44:07Eastern and Pacific on CNN or the next day on CNN's All Access streaming platform. Jake? All right, Pamela Brown, thank you so much. Again, you can see the whole story, the rise of Christian nationalism this Sunday at 8 p.m. on CNN and the next day on the CNN app. Democratic governors are now demanding that the White House refund Americans after Trump's tariffs were ruled illegal by the U.S. Supreme Court. But will you see any of that money? That's next. Plus, President Trump says he's ordering the release of government files on aliens. So what may be in there? I'm going to ask the producer and director of the Age of Disclosure documentary.

44:40That's next.

44:47Our politics lead now. The Supreme Court struck down President Trump's sweeping tariff regime earlier today and moments ago. The president posted on Truth Social, quote, it is my great honor to have just signed from the Oval Office a global 10 % tariff on all countries, which will be effective almost immediately. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Here to discuss are Jamil Jaffer, the founder and executive director of National Security Institute and a Former law clerk for Justice Neil Gorsuch is, well, joining us is Mo Alethe, a former DNC communications director. So we should just know you clerked for Gorsuch.

45:22I did. So I'm going to ask you to, you know, use your powers of Gorsuch whispering and reading. President Trump had strong criticism for all six in the majority, but specifically for Justices Amy Coney Barrett and Gorsuch, whom he appointed and whom voted against him today. Take a listen. They're just being fools and lapdogs for the rhinos and the radical left Democrats. They're very unpatriotic and disloyal to our constitution. Do you regret nominating them? I don't want to say whether or not I regret. I think their decision was terrible.

45:59I think it's an embarrassment to their families. You want to know the truth. He also went on to suggest, with no evidence, that he thinks it's his opinion that these people, I guess all six who ruled against him, are in the pocket of like foreign businesses or something like that. What do you make of all this? I mean, it's ridiculous, right? The president is just wrong. Neil Gorsuch, the other justices up there, they're doing law. You can agree with them, you can disagree with them, saying they're disloyal to the Constitution, suggesting they're in the pockets of foreign adversaries. I mean, the whole thing is outrageous.

46:30It's wrong. It's not acceptable. And it's not appropriate for a president of the United States to be talking about the United States Supreme Court in that manner. Do you remember in 2010 when Obama gave his State of the Union address and criticized the decision of the court in the Citizens United? He said it was dead wrong. And so many Republican senators and everybody on Fox, everybody was so offended that the president had, you know, criticized the Supreme Court decision in front of the Supreme Court justices. Where are all these guys now? Yeah, exactly. I'm also old enough to remember when it was mainstream conservative ideology to be opposed to these kinds of tariffs, right?

47:10I mean, now he's calling them rhinos. But yeah, I mean, President took a major political hit today, a major policy hit today. His entire rationale, his presidency has rested on these tariffs. I've never truly understood why politically, because they are so unpopular and they are hurting so many people. But that's what he was leaning into. For the first time, in a really substantive way, the Supreme Court said, you know what, buddy? Like, there is a constitution. Article 1 gives this power to the Congress. If you want to do it, do it, but do it the right way through Congress. Yeah, we had Stephen Moore on earlier, a big ally of the president, and I think he said something along the lines of, there probably aren't the votes for it.

47:54Right. Some Republicans, Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska, Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, praised the ruling. Others have slammed it. Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio called the ruling outrageous and said it, quote, handcuffs our fight against unfair trade that has devastated American workers for decades. Congressman Buddy Carter, I believe, at Georgia, posted, quote, the Supreme Court just undercut the president's ability to defend American workers. There is an argument that, you know, the president was trying to undo what a lot of people, probably everybody here at this table would agree, have been some very unfortunate decisions made by U.S.

48:30leaders in terms of trade deals that have hurt the American working class. No, I think that's right. And that's fine. The president has the ability to take those actions if he chooses to. He just had to do it the way that Congress has authorized him to do it. Here he tried to use a broad statute in a very aggressive way. And we've seen the court pull that authority back. For a while, the court gave, you know, presidency authority to run around and have federal agencies do all sorts of things within broad statutory authorities. Conservatives on the Supreme Court have pulled that power back, joined at times by liberals.

48:59And that's the right thing because that's what the Constitution provides. It says that Congress makes the laws, not the president. He makes it in consultation with Congress. He vetoes or signs bills. But he's going to make the laws on his own. And if Congress grants the authority, if the Constitution grants Congress the authority, it's their job. They have to do their job. Right or wrong, that's what the Supreme Court decided today. And that's the right answer. Mo, this is interesting. I want you to weigh in. Both the presidents, vice presidents weighed in. The current Vice President J.D. Vance called the Supreme Court ruling, quote, lawlessness from the court, plain and simple.

49:32Former Vice President Mike Pence, more traditional Republican, called the ruling, quote, victory for the American people and a win for the separation of powers enshrined in the Constitution of the United States. Yeah, well, I mean, it doesn't surprise me that the current vice president would take the tone he took because, you know, that's what his boss requires. But I agree with the former vice president that this is a victory for separation of powers as enshrined in the Constitution. But also your earlier point about whether or not the president's approach was designed to help the American people.

50:08There are plenty of examples of where tariffs have actually helped to level the playing field and been helpful. But they were strategic. They were targeted. The fact that this president took the approach he took illegally, but took the approach he took with these widespread universal tariffs ended up hurting us. It ended up hurting us by increasing what people's out-of-pocket costs by like$1 ,700 a year. It ended up hurting us in our alliances, in our relationships with our trading partners. It emboldened China, who was just funneling their goods through other countries. For all of these reasons, it didn't help the American people.

50:51And now we've learned it was also illegal. Very short, if you can. Please interpret Gorsuch's concurring opinion in which he basically said, legislating's hard. Was he talking to the country or do you think he was talking to President Trump? I think he was talking to the country. I think he was making clear that the Constitution sets out a separation of powers Congress makes the laws. The president carries them out. And the Constitution gives the power to tax and impose tariffs to Congress. You have to respect that. You have to make the laws if that's how you want to do it. You have to follow the laws if you're the president.

51:24This was a clear message from Justice Gorsuch to the country. We're going to do law in the Supreme Court, not politics. Say what you want, Mr. President. They're going to do the law. Yeah, it was very Schoolhouse Rock to me. I'm just a Bill. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. And to our pop culture lead. The final words of actor Eric Dane, who tragically died yesterday, just 10 months after going public with his diagnosis of ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease. The 53-year-old actor, best known for the iconic roles of Dr. Mark McSteamy Sloan on Grey's Anatomy and Cal Jacobs on Euphoria, recorded a secret interview with host and director and producer Brad Falchuk for the new Netflix series Famous Last Words.

52:03Interviews that are conducted and then released after somebody passes away. The first one was Jane Goodall. The second one, Eric Dane. In the interview, Dane reflects on his marriage to actress Rebecca Gayhart and leaves this message to his two daughters, Billy and Georgia. I hope I've demonstrated that you can face anything. You can face the end of your days. You can face hell with dignity. Fight, girls, and hold your heads high. Billy and Georgia, you are my heart. You are my everything. Good night. I love you. Wow. Our heart goes out to Rebecca and Billy and Georgia and the rest of Eric's family and friends.

52:51What a loss. May his memory be a blessing. We'll be right back. In our Out of This World lead, President Trump says he's directing the release of government files related to aliens, extraterrestrial life, UFOs, and unidentified aerial phenomenon. Otherwise known as UAPs, this announcement comes just a few months after the documentary Age of Disclosure debuted at number one on Amazon Prime, prompting a huge conversation about aliens and what the government knows. The film's director and producer, Dan Farah, says his interviews reveal evidence of how deep the secrecy goes. I was recruited to a highly sensitive government program that investigated unidentified aerial phenomenon.

53:32For over 16 years on behalf of the U.S. government, I worked as a senior intelligence official on the unidentified aerial phenomenon topic. We learned that the U.S. government was involved in a long-running secret war with other nations. And Farhad joins us now. Dan, welcome back to The Lead, and congratulations on all the conversation this has prompted. It's not difficult to think that there's a line from your film to Brian Tyler Cohen asking Obama that question, which prompted Obama, Trump doing this. Why do you think President Trump wants to release the files? Look, I think that there's clearly a huge appetite to learn the truth about this topic.

54:11You know, my film reveals there's been an 80 year cover up of the existence of non-human intelligent life. And the truth has been hidden from the public, Congress and even sitting presidents. So I think that the film, the release of it opened everyone's eyes to the fact that the truth has been hidden and President Trump is responding to the public demand. You explain this in the film, but why do you think it would be hidden from presidents? Obama even alluded to that, the idea that, I mean, he was kind of dismissing it, but the notion that there would be a conspiracy to hide this from the president.

54:44Your film, you know, posits that it is hidden. Why? Well, look, it's broken down in detail in a number of the interviews, but even Secretary Rubio in the film talks about how it's the permanent bureaucracy that is able to keep these secrets. Presidents are there for four to eight years. They come and go, but the permanent bureaucracy can stay there for decades. And that permanent bureaucracy within different elements of government has been able to keep this hidden for 80 years. What do you hope to see in the files when they're released? I think there's a lot that's going to be revealed. You know, important thing to remember is disclosure is going to be a process.

55:23It's not a singular event. It's going to have a lot of milestones and a lot of hurdles. The release of my film is a major milestone. Obama's comments a milestone. Trump's presidential order is a major milestone. There's going to be more milestones, and there's going to be pushback. The people inside of the U.S. government that have been involved in covering this up, they're going to continue to try to cover it up. There's going to be pushback to this historic disclosure moment. And we're just going to all have to keep pressure on and keep driving it forward so it stays a national conversation and national priority until we have full disclosure.

55:56The last time you were on the show, you spoke about the secret Cold War with adverse nations to reverse engineer the non-human technology. In other words, there are these craft that crash or whatever, and then to reverse engineer, figure out how they were built. What do you expect the international implications will be when these files are released? I think there's already major geopolitical repercussions and consequences to this big presidential order that Trump just did. The rest of the world now knows we're taking this extremely seriously. We're putting an end to the antiquated, illogical stigma that has existed around this topic in our society, and we're making it a national priority.

56:40That alone is an escalation of the situation. We'll now have more resources put towards this, more brainpower put towards this, and we'll be better positioned to win this high-stakes technology race we're in with adversaries. There is going to be a huge effort by the government, no doubt, to redact as much as possible. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of pushback. The people that have covered this up for 80 years have done it very effectively, and there's no reason to think that they're going to stop. Dan Farah, thank you so much. Congratulations. I can't think of anything that a documentary filmmaker wants more than impact.

57:14And you certainly have caused it. Have a good week. Thank you. Thank you. Coming up Sunday on State of the Union, an exclusive interview with California Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom. Look for that Sunday morning at 9 Eastern and again at noon here on CNN. And next week, CNN, of course, is going to have special coverage of President Trump's first State of the Union address of his second term. That will be Tuesday night. Look for the speech plus in-depth analysis before and after the address. That's next Tuesday night, starting at 8 Eastern. Watch on CNN or on the new CNN app. And until then, you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, ThreadsBlueSky X, and on the TikTok at Jake Tapper.

57:48You can follow the show on X. And Instagram at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode only, you can watch the show on the CNN app. You should be downloading it right now. You should be downloading the app. Aaron Burnett out front starts right now. Take it away, Aaron. Thank you.

From the publisher

One day after the arrest of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, police in the United Kingdom say the search of his former home will likely continue until Monday. Plus, the Supreme Court deals a major blow to Trump’s economic agenda. 
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