White House: Federal Worker Layoffs Due To Shutdown “Imminent”

22:43Jake Tapper:We're obviously going to do less business. No people, we're not going to be doing any business. So it's just really a matter of how long this is going to last. Well, in the private sector, Jake, businesses deciding whether to hire or fire likely will not have the benefit of crucial economic data like inflation and the jobs report. Because remember, employees at the Bureau of Labor Statistics also on furlough. Jake. It's worth pointing out, Renee, though, that members of Congress, members of the House and Senate, they continue to be paid during the shutdown. And one of the federal workers who I spoke to, that really angered him that they're at home or they're working with no pay.

23:26But the members of Congress who couldn't get the deal done continue to get paid. So the federal employees know it and they're not happy about that either. Well, you want to get rid of government shutdowns, make it the law that members of the House and Senate don't get paid during shutdown. And my guess is that we wouldn't have any more. Renee Marsh, thanks so much. Appreciate it. The jaw-dropping scolding that one Republican-appointed judge just gave President Trump. That's next.

23:58And we're back with the Politics Lead live on Capitol Hill. It's day one of this government shutdown. Kate Bedingfield is with me. She was the White House Communications Director under President Joe Biden. And also with me, Adam Kinzinger, who up until 2023 was to be deep in the mix as a Republican congressman from Illinois. Kate, from your former position as White House communications director, do you think the White House and Republicans are winning the political argument right now? I don't think that any time the conversation is focused on what Trump and the White House are not doing to bring costs down for people, that they're winning.

24:31So, no, I don't think they're winning because I think the American people understand that Republicans have repeatedly said that they will not negotiate. Trump said he essentially will not negotiate with Democrats on this on this health care subsidy issue. So. So, no, I think that, look, I will say I think long term, I think the brutal reality is that the long term impact of the shutdown. We're going to live a thousand political lifetimes between now and the midterms. I don't think it's going to have a particularly long tail either way, to be totally honest with you. But I do think that as long as Democrats stay tight on this message about health care costs and continue to lay that at the feet of Republicans, I think that they are that they are helping themselves.

25:10So the Republican argument, as you've heard, is basically, one, the Democrats are doing this for a lot of reasons that don't have to do with the American people, Chuck Schumer's politics and health care for undocumented immigrants. And also, hey, we voted for the clean, continuing government resolution, which Democrats have voted for 18 different times. Do you think that they have the upper hand here? I don't know. I think, look, had the Democrats started messaging this two months ago, I think they would be in the upper hand position. That message very simply would be, hey, you have all of government, you know, fund it.

25:45If you need our help, we're happy to chat. But, you know, there'll be a cost. But right now, I mean, the Republicans, I would say maybe a touch in terms of, like, if I had to be a betting man on who kind of takes the blame here, that it would be the Democrats. But it'll be interesting to see. I mean, it's so fun to me to watch a lot of folks come in on TV and arguing just to vote for a clean CR when these are all the people that I was begging to vote for a clean CR in the GOP, you know, back in the day. So hypocrisy is a thing that is pretty much all over the place here. Yeah. And Kate, we've seen how much the Republican Party has changed under Trump.

26:19What do the politics of this shutdown say about how much the Democratic Party has had to evolve and has to keep evolving? You know, I think there's no question that the Democratic base across the country has said very clearly since Trump was inaugurated that they want to see Democrats stand up. This is obviously a point in the process where Democrats have some leverage. They aren't in control of any of the branches of government. So this is one of the few places where they have some leverage. And there's clearly a desire, a hunger from the base for them to stand up. But I actually think that picking this specific fight on health care is good for Democrats across the board.

26:55I think this, you know, I see Republicans trying to paint this as, you know, Chuck Schumer is being led around by the left of his party. Well, that's actually simply not the case. I mean, across the country, health care has consistently been an issue since Trump came down the escalator 10 years ago. It's been an issue that Democrats have been able to effectively use against him. Obviously, you remember his attempts to overturn Obamacare, which Senator McCain, of course, worked to prevent from happening. This is a place where Trump and Republicans are vulnerable, but Democrats have to keep driving and they've got to be disciplined on the health care message.

27:28Aside from the hill drama, the Trump administration received a scathing review from a senior judge, William Young in Massachusetts, in an opinion that is 161 pages long. The Reagan appoint judge, Reagan appointed judge rebuked the Trump administration for trying to deport non-citizen professors and students who have protested the Israeli government's actions in Gaza, Judge Young called it a, quote, full-throated assault on the First Amendment. His review touched on masked immigration agents saying, quote, ice goes mass for a single reason, to terrorize Americans into quiescence. He went on to, quote, can you imagine a masked Marine?

28:03It is a matter of honor, and honor still matters to us. Masks are associated with cowardly desperados and the despised Ku Klux Klan. Do you think that that rebuke has any impact at all on President Trump or Attorney General Bondi? No, no. I mean, I don't think so. I think even though it's from a Reagan appointee? No, I mean, look, the thing that's kind of really concerned me is that there's been this, you know, the country is so divided that there's almost nobody that can be convinced either way, right? You have your basis. And so I think the Trump administration has basically laid their argument and placed their bets on the fact that they have enough people in America that'll support them no matter what.

28:42And, you know, short of the Supreme Court coming down and saying you're violating this by that. And that's maybe what it also will have to come to. Could it embarrass them? Sure. But I don't think it's going to change anything. I do think the idea of agents wearing masks, not identifying themselves, there's going to be a day when somebody is going to pretend to be an ICE agent or a day when an ICE agent is misidentified as somebody who's an attacker and something bad is going to happen. It's a frightening situation, I think. All right. Adam Kinzinger and Kate Benningfield, thanks to both you. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries just arrived to our set here on Capitol Hill one day into the shutdown.

29:18Does he see any exit ramp here? Any plan for this to end? We're going to ask him next. Stay with us.

29:29And we're back with our politics lead, the government shutdown, the spending talk stalemate here on Capitol Hill. Democrats so far not willing to bend on their demands for Obamacare subsidies to be extended and more. here with me now is the leader of the Democrats in the House, Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York. Thanks for being with me, Leader Jeffries. So you maintain Democrats are ready to come to the table anytime with anyone at any place on any spending agreement. Vice President J.D. Vance today said the president's hoping to coming to the table on health care once the government is funded.

30:02Where are we at negotiations right now? Well, we haven't heard from the White House since the White House meeting on Monday, the president has been behaving somewhat erratically in an unconventional fashion in the context of the government shutting down. Clearly they wanted to shut the government down, unfortunately. We're ready to work together to bring it back open, but to do it in a way where we enact a spending agreement that's bipartisan, that meets the needs of the American people, while at the same time addresses the Republican health care crisis that is devastating everyday Americans all across the country.

30:35So you said erratic, and I believe you used the word unhinged the other day. I did. Are you trying to draw a line between President Trump's acuity, his mental state, and what's going on here with the shutdown? No, no, no. I'm actually referring to some of his social media posts, which didn't seem to make a lot of sense. The sombrero and the mustache? Well, it would seem to me that as the president of the United States, on the brink of a government shutdown, if you actually wanted to bring everyone together to try to get to a resolution in a common sense, bipartisan way, that's not the type of behavior that we would see.

31:13So hopefully moving forward, whether it's President Trump or Vice President Vance, Speaker Johnson, Leader Thune, that will actually come together to have a conversation to figure out how we can get the government reopened immediately. stop this pain that Trump is inflicting on hardworking American taxpayers and at the same time resolve the Republican health care crisis, particularly as it relates to the Affordable Care Act and their refusal to extend the tax credits, which is going to result in tens of millions of Americans experiencing dramatically increased premiums, copays and deductibles.

31:52So right now, J.D. Vance says he's talking to other Democrats in the Senate. Three Democrats, or three people to caucus with Democrats, Angus King of Maine, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, Cortez Masto of Nevada, they voted for the continuing resolution. They only need five more Democrats. Are you worried at all about the more moderate Democrats caving? Not at all. In fact, what I think, constructive conversations are positive. I don't know that these conversations have been constructive, because for the last several months, what we've seen from the Trump administration is that they've adopted a my way or the highway approach.

32:32Now, if you adopt a my way or highway approach, and then you drop on us a partisan spending bill that continues to gut the health care of the American people, then the reality is they are going to drive us toward the government shutdown. The partisan spending bill, is that the one big beautiful bill or the continuing resolution? Because the continuing resolution just funds the government at the current level. Well, actually, the continuing resolution that they have presented to the Congress is a partisan bill. House Democrats voted against it in March because it hurt veterans, hurt seniors, hurt children, hurt child care affordability, hurt housing affordability, and hurt health care.

33:08This is why we opposed it. You're saying that Chuck Schumer then voted for a Republican partisan bill because he voted for that. So did nine other Democrats in the march. Well, Chuck Schumer did explain his views on the merits of that bill at the time. I don't think he ever disputed that there were challenging parts of that legislation. The partisan bill is the one that's before us now. A bipartisan agreement on spending had actually been reached in December. Bipartisan majorities in the House and the Senate. Joe Biden signed it into law. Then President-elect Donald Trump blessed it as well. So let me ask you about a provision that the Republicans are talking about quite a bit.

33:46I know you want to talk about and Democrats want to talk about extending the Obamacare subsidies, which expire at the end of 2025. But they talk about the provisions and it's right here. Subtitle E. And this has to do with the repeal of health care subtitle changes and specifically what it is. They they're how they characterize it, characterize it as you want to give health insurance to undocumented immigrants. I understand that's not really an accurate depiction, but what it does do is. It's a lie. It's a lie. But what you support does bring back funding for emergency Medicaid to hospitals, some of which does pay for undocumented immigrants and people who don't have health insurance.

34:25And also there is this provision, and it's not about undocumented immigrants, it's about people with asylum seekers and people with temporary protected status, et cetera, et cetera, but about their ability to get Medicaid. So they're non-citizens, they're not undocumented, they're not illegal. why even include that in a bill knowing that they're going to seize right upon that and use that to message? I understand that when you retake the House, you can get whatever you want passed. But at this point? Well, what we're doing is fighting to protect the health care of the American people against the largest cut to Medicaid ever.

34:5814 million American citizens are going to lose their health care as a result of what Republicans did. You're talking about the subsidies again, but I'm talking about the non-citizens. I'm talking about the Medicaid cuts, that document that you just showed me. That was the one big ugly bill. 14 million Americans are going to lose access to health care. Their hospitals, their nursing homes, their community-based health clinics are closing because of what the Republicans have done. These are hardworking American taxpayers. And the Republicans know they're lying about this issue. By the way, current federal law is clear.

35:32Taxpayer dollars cannot be spent on Medicaid or Medicare or the Affordable Care Act related to undocumented immigrants. And not a single Democrat has raised the issue of trying to reverse that federal law. What we are trying to do is save the health care of the American people, lower their costs, and cancel these cuts. Do you not think that the provisions that provide health care for non-citizens muddies that message. No, you're referring to emergency care that some states might administer based on state law. We're talking about federal law. We don't have the ability to change state law. So let me ask you about this threat from Ross Vought, the director of the Office of Management and Budget.

36:18He announced that the White House was, a vote, I'm sorry. He announced that the White House was freezing roughly$18 billion in New York City infrastructure, quote, due to unconstitutional DEI principles. He added that's going to impact the Hudson Tunnel Project and the 2nd Avenue subway. I doubt it's a coincidence that you and Leader Schumer are both from New York, probably even occasionally ride that subway or use that tunnel. What's your response? Well, it's an attack on working class Americans. It's an attack on good paying union jobs. It's an attack on teachers and social workers and nurses and firefighters and police officers who are going to rely upon the transportation that will be enhanced by those projects, not just in New York City, but in New York State, as well as in New Jersey and in Connecticut.

37:05It's interesting to me, I wonder why Mike Lawler or others haven't said anything. It's going to have an adverse impact on his constituents. But this is the type of thing that we've seen from the Trump administration. These people are obsessed with retribution, as opposed to actually doing what they promised. They promised, Jake, to lower the high cost of living on day one. But costs aren't going down in America. Costs are going up. Inflation is going up. America's too expensive. The Trump tariffs is making life more unaffordable for millions of Americans who are paying thousands of dollars more a year because of the erratic Republican policies.

37:38And now they actually are going after these economic development job creating engines to hurt not Democrats or Republicans, to hurt hardworking American taxpayers. One last thing before you go. I know you said you thought it was racist and bigoted, that sombrero and mustache AI image that President Trump put out there. That wasn't simply my characterization. That was a broad characterization by a broad number of people. J.D. Vance said he thought it was funny. Vice President Vance said he thought it was funny. And he said he didn't understand why you thought it was racist because you're not of Mexican heritage.

38:12It was a xenophobic stereotype, which is why we've heard from many Latino organizations denouncing what took place. But the broader issue, I'm not going to dwell on the president's erratic behavior in terms of the meme or the AI deep fake videos. The broader problem is it's deeply unserious. And this is a serious moment. We need to reopen the government. We need to enact a spending agreement that's bipartisan, that actually meets the needs of the American people. And we need to address the Republican health care crisis. Democratic leader of the House of Representatives, Hakeem Jeffries of New York.

38:45Thank you so much. Good to see you. As always, we'll be right back.

38:50I'll see you next time.

39:19Jake Tapper:Tesson. Let's have I got news for your ears. The podcast. I am your host, Michael Ian Black. If you look at the favorability ratings in 20 years, Trump will be lower than Gacy. Because Trump destroyed so many more lives than Gacy. What's Gacy's body count? 60? I mean, Trump blows up that many in a boat on the weekend. That's what he's doing. Everything's so hard to keep track of. That's why shows like Have I Got News for You exists. Oh, right to camera. Have I Got News for Your Ears releases new episodes every Wednesday. Don't miss an episode. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts. This is CNN Breaking News.

40:02Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. I'm live on Capitol Hill. The breaking news and the lead tonight. Nearly one full day into the partial federal government shutdown. And the political blame game is going on in full force right now. Democrats refusing to budge, a vast majority insisting they will never vote for a clean funding bill that the Republicans have put up unless Republicans agree to tack on subsidies that would help Americans afford Obamacare coverage, as well as if they agree to reverse deep cuts to Medicaid, Medicaid that were part of Trump's one big, beautiful bill. Republican leaders insist this would grant health care to undocumented immigrants.

40:38Take a listen. They want to give health care benefits to illegal aliens. That is true. They gave us legislative text that would have undone us cutting off health care benefits for illegal aliens. We're going to dive into the actual facts behind the vice president's claim in just a second. It's not quite as simple as he's depicting it. But first, CNN's Caitlin Collins is at the White House. Caitlin, what are you hearing from your White House sources tonight about the shutdown? Well, Jake, they're very much in the messaging standpoint of this. They don't believe that the shutdown is going to end in the next 24 hours or so.

41:11So what you're seeing is their chance at messaging this and blaming this on Democrats. And that's why there was that surprise appearance by the vice president, J.D. Vance, at the press briefing scheduled today, this afternoon, where he came out and was really becoming the face for the administration on this issue, taking that message there, of course, to his colleagues, his former colleagues up on Capitol Hill, where really what the White House is hoping to do with this, Jake, is to pressure enough Senate Democrats to come to the table and vote yes on this clean funding bill to continue funding the government.

41:42And then they say they'll negotiate on things like the Obamacare subsidies later. And so the question is whether or not they can do that. We saw a couple Democratic senators last night coming over and saying that while they're not happy to vote for this, they believe avoiding a government shutdown or at least making one as short as possible is in the best interest of the American people. And so this is a pressure campaign by the White House that is directed pretty much at about five Senate Democrats here. And so the question is how effective that will be, how long it will last. The White House, Jake, I'll note, I've been talking to people, they're pretty optimistic that it won't stretch much longer.

42:16They're even looking at Friday, potentially. Of course, the House is not back until next week. But that is how they are watching all of this right now from this perspective here at the White House. Just a few minutes ago on the show, Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic leader, said that President Trump's AI post depicting him with a sombrero and a mustache was not just racist, but indicative of how unserious President Trump is being right now. But J.D. Vance, the vice president, he defended the meme. Yeah, Jake, listen to what he said in the briefing today.

42:52Oh, I think it's funny. The president's joking. I mean, I'll tell Hakeem Jeffries right now, I make this solemn promise to you that if you help us reopen the government, the sombrero memes will stop. Hakeem Jeffries said it was racist, and I know that he said that, and I honestly don't even know what that means. Like, is he a Mexican-American that is offended by having a sombrero meme? Obviously, Jake, you heard from Hakeem Jeffries yourself. He wasn't even saying it's just the meme and talking about how Latino groups have responded to this. He was saying he views it as unprofessional while they are in the middle of trying to come to some agreement on this.

43:29But obviously, that is something the president has posted. He does not see any intention of backing down on that based on what we've heard from the White House and from the vice president, J.D. Banz. But it kind of just gives you a window, Jake, into what the status of relations are between the White House and these congressional Democrats as they are arguing over what happens next year with the government funding. All right, Caitlin Collins at the White House. Thanks so much. And Caitlin is going to talk a little about this and much, much more. This hot mess of a shutdown. She's going to have Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett and Republican Congressman Mike Lawler.

44:02That's on her show, The Source, with Caitlin Collins tonight at 9 Eastern on CNN. And then, Caitlin, I don't know if you heard, but Hakeem Jeffries had some questions for Mike Lawler. You should bring those up in your interview with Lawler. He said, where is he on the threats to funding for the Second Avenue subway and the Hudson Tunnel? Just FYI, a little tip for you. Yeah, Jake, and actually Mike Lawler has criticized that Second Avenue subway station. But we'll see what he has to say about this, because I think one thing that people have pointed out from that post, from the budget director, Russ Vogt, those states they're targeting, is that they're all Democratic-led states or Democratic-led cities.

44:33And, of course, there's a lot of projects like that going on in Republican states. But clearly, that is part of that pressure campaign that I was just talking about, Jake. All right. Thanks so much, Caitlin. And joining us now here in this House office building, Congressman Tom Cole. He's a Republican from Oklahoma. He's chair of the House Appropriations Committee. So good to have you here, sir. Thank you so much. Thanks for inviting me. So you just heard Minority Leader Jeffries telling me he has not heard from the White House since Monday. shouldn't there be just like constant continuous conversations between the Democrats the Republicans in the White House well there are obviously quite a

45:07Jake Tapper:bit of conversations going on but you know as far as the House is concerned we've done our job I mean we have actually passed the legislation to keep the the governor we're waiting to see what the Senate does but that's really where the actions at so I don't know that the president needs to be focused a lot on House members we've made our decision now we're waiting for a reaction from the Senate. So you have said you've taken issue with Democrats using the shutdown as leverage on items that you say are, quote, unrelated to day to day government funding. Isn't that, though, what Republicans did last time there was a shutdown?

45:39It is.

45:39Jake Tapper:And it was a big mistake. And they should learn from how it worked out for us. Look, I've never been in favor of government shutdowns. I don't think they work. They never achieve the objective. And they create a lot of chaos and a lot of ill will. And I'm afraid that's what's happening now. But pretty proud of the House. We've gotten all of our bills out of committee. We've gotten 60 % of the funding across the floor. We're in serious negotiations with our counterparts on a package of bills that we could get done and hopefully kick off a process where we actually got them finished. But, and look, we've gotten a majority vote in each House, obviously not 60 in the Senate yet, but I don't blame them for chipping away at that.

46:17So you note that the appropriations process is supposed to be completed by the end of September each year before the government's fiscal year starts. Correct. In October, there are 12 separate appropriations bills supposed to be passed. Zero were passed through both chambers this year. As appropriations chair, do you take any responsibility for that?

46:36Jake Tapper:Look, everybody has responsibility. But the reality is Congress was focused very heavily on the centerpiece of the president. One big, beautiful bill. One big, beautiful bill. But we got all our bills out of committee by September. And look, last year, I actually give the Senate a lot of credit this year. They've gotten six bills out of committee, three across the floor. You know, Leader Schumer, when he actually led the Senate, didn't get a single appropriations bill passed. So we're moving in the right direction, but we need to keep the government open, keep negotiating in good faith, find common ground.

47:08Jake Tapper:I think we can do that. You've mentioned your concern for the thousands of federal workers in your home state of Oklahoma. White House Budget Chair Chief Russ Vogt warned a group of your colleagues today that some of these furloughed workers can end up being permanently fired, and that could actually take place in one to two days. The White House obviously is blaming Democrats for all of this, but do you think your constituents back home care about whose fault it is? No, I think they care about their jobs, and they do important work. Most of them are civilian defense workers. We also have the National Weather Center.

47:40Jake Tapper:We've got the leading groundwater research laboratory from the EPA. Those are just in my district, And then there's a substantial federal president. So we're concerned about that. But we know the best way to deal with that is to get the government open. Number one, if you don't want to enhance the power of the executive branch, you open back up Congress and you start passing appropriations bill. We think we're pretty close to doing that. Unfortunately, in our view, the Democratic leadership dropped in a lot of unrelated issues. We don't have jurisdiction over Medicaid on my committee. We don't have jurisdiction over tax policy, the Obamacare-related COVID-era tax credits.

48:17Jake Tapper:What we do have jurisdiction over is the day-to-day operation of the government. We get about that. I think we solve a lot of our problems. Well, you brought up the subsidies. Obviously, the Democrats have asked for a number of items. Would Republicans giving on that one issue at least remove a potential political liability in terms of the Obamacare subsidies? Well, first of all, some of those subsidies run out. Democrats actually wrote that legislation. They picked the date. The CR we're talking about doesn't even extend to that date. There certainly can be separate discussions on those. They don't belong in a four-week CR.

48:51Jake Tapper:I mean, Democrats have asked for Republicans to guarantee them a trillion and a half dollars over the next 10 years for a four-week extension of funding. That's just not going to happen. It's a ridiculous thing. But if you'll let the appropriators do their work, they'll start producing real bills that fund the government and fund it for a full year instead of a few weeks. Is it something that you'd be willing to have a conversation with? Look, I'm willing to have a conversation with anybody, but I also know the limits of my jurisdiction on my committee. They don't extend into those areas. I'd have a vote as a member on the floor, but it's not appropriate for us to be doing these things.

49:27Jake Tapper:And Democrats in the past always were, hey, let's just keep the government open. Let's keep negotiating. we can solve our problems. I like that approach then even when my own party didn't take it. I think they were right then. I think they're wrong now and I think they're creating a political crisis quite honestly I think partly because Senator Schumer's got some political problems from his left wing and potential challenges in his home and in terms of the House again we've done our work. We've gotten our bills done and we've gotten this extension going and And so we hope that the bipartisan majority in the Senate that's already 55 grows to 60 and we get back to work.

50:07All right, Congressman Tom Cole, thank you so much. Hey, thanks, man. Chairman, I should say, Chairman Tom Cole. The White House says government layoffs from the shutdown are imminent. We've got a new glimpse into how that could compound an already stressed out job market. Plus, we're going to go live to Memphis, Tennessee, ahead of Trump's National Guard deployment there. Some residents are telling CNN it might make them feel a little safer. Stay with us.

50:29And we're back live from Capitol Hill with our money lead. Flying blind is never fun, especially when it comes to the U.S. economy. The shutdown is expected to delay data on jobs numbers. It's a key signal for the strength of the U.S. economy or the weakness. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the U.S. economy suffered a$3 billion hit during the last government shutdown that stretched from December 2018 to January 2019. So far, Wall Street is still shrugging off the immediate effects of the shutdown. The Dow and S &P 500 closed at fresh record highs. CNN's Vanessa Yerkevich is here.

51:01She covers the cross-section of business and politics. Vanessa, how else might the economy take a hit if this shutdown drags on? Well, Jake, if you don't have workers getting paid, furloughed workers, workers who may be laid off, or even those who are working but not getting paid, those Americans are likely not spending as much in the U.S. economy. So that is going to put a dent in consumer confidence and CEO confidence. According to the Congressional Budget Office, that will be likely one of the key impacts, as consumer spending is a key economic driver. Also, there's the possibility of about 750 ,000 furloughed federal employees every single day.

51:41That accounts to wages of$400 million every day that's not going into the pockets of these federal employees. And then we've heard from the administration, President Trump, J.D. Vance, the press secretary, saying that mass layoffs are imminent and those individuals may end up winding on winding up on unemployment in a labor market that has become much tighter. And then, of course, there's those delayed reports from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the jobs report for September, which we are not expected to get on Friday. Also, key inflation data and the Commerce Department saying that they are not going to be able to put out reports, including GDP for the third quarter, the first reading.

52:25Jake, these are all reports that businesses try to plan off of. Also, the Federal Reserve tries to plan off of. There's a meeting later this month where they will decide whether or not to cut rates, but they will not have that key data that they usually turn to in order to make that decision, Jake. Yeah, I was expecting October 3rd, Friday, the BLS data showing how jobs or joblessness were impacted. Is there any other way that economists are going to be able to get a glimpse into the jobs numbers? Economists will have to turn to private sector data, including a piece of data that we received this morning.

53:03ADP Payroll put out their report, which signals that the economy actually shed 32 ,000 jobs in the private sector in the month of September. So continuing to show a shrinking and slowing labor market. Also, there was a revision from that private sector report. Initially, it was reported that there were 54 ,000 jobs added in August. That number now revised down by 3 ,000. But ultimately, it's like trying to make a big decision without your playbook that you're used to. As you mentioned, Jake, investors on Wall Street, though, very much kind of shrugging off this government shutdown because they do still believe, despite the lack of data, that the Federal Reserve will go ahead and cut interest rates later this month.

53:52And that is why you saw that big hooray from investors and some more records broken on Wall Street, Jake. All right, Vanessa, your Cambridge. Thanks so much. We're going to take you live to Memphis, Tennessee next. That's where the president is surging more federal law enforcement, aiming to crack down on crime there, he says. This, as Trump just said, the National Guard is now in place in yet another state. That's next.

54:19In our national lead, President Trump this afternoon posted on Truth Social saying, quote, the National Guard is now in place in Oregon. After last week, he activated members of Oregon's National Guard. Meanwhile, in Memphis, Tennessee, the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, and the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, are there as President Trump searches federal law enforcement aimed at addressing violence in that city. Let me be very, very clear. I am a career prosecutor. If you touch a law enforcement officer, it is a crime and you are going to jail. We are arresting anyone who touches any of you. CNN's Ryan Young is reporting from a staging area in Memphis.

55:03Earlier in the day, Ryan, you visited a neighborhood where four children were shot over 20 days. Tell me about that.

55:12Jake Tapper:Jake, this has been a very busy day as we crisscross the city of Memphis, trying to track down what federal officers and local police officers are doing to try to keep people safe. There have been a lot of emotions behind this, especially in neighborhoods like the one we walked through today, where people were visibly upset about all the violence that has taken place so far. Behind us right now, this is where the Secretary of War and Pam Bondi were just over there. This is a staging area where we've seen ATF, FBI. It's been an alphabet soup of law enforcement as we've seen them get ready and go out and make runs throughout the day.

55:43Jake Tapper:We know more than 50 arrests were made just last night, 20 guns taken off the street in the last 48 hours. You see people like this who are behind me with this sign. He has it on both sides. If you can flip it around and show what he's saying, He's hoping that this action by Trump will help make this city safer. Take a listen to a man that we talked to in a neighborhood that basically says he welcomes the idea of this federal action. You can't be satisfied living in a city where you can't go to the gas station. You go to the gas station, you may become a statistic. That's real. I tell my wife, do not go to the gas station at night.

56:21Jake Tapper:But now sometimes you can't go to it in the daytime. You know, I don't look out, I don't come out my front door without looking out the window first, left and right. Memphis has a history of racialized violence in the city. If you think back to the sanitation workers strike, so bringing troops here puts black black and brown communities at a higher risk to be targeted. And potentially pulling funds and resources from the communities that need them. Jake, you've had me on your show several times and we've been covering crime throughout the pandemic and we saw that spike back in 2020. Cities have been struggling to get crime back down.

57:11Jake Tapper:We see year lows now 25 % down according to the police department here. The chief, Chief Davis, has been working to get crime down. We know federal resources will help. The mayor says they want those extra federal resources. But there are people in this community who are scared that a heavy hand here could lead to some sort of action. Let's not forget that this is where Tyrese Nichols was also killed. But they want action. They want to see gun crime tampered down a lot. One other thing, as the HEXF talked to the troops here, we know that Elon Musk even bought food for them as they get ready to hit the streets tonight.

57:43Jake Tapper:There's a lot of support for them as they do this action over the next couple of days. We'll have more for you later on, Jake. All right, Ryan Young in Memphis. Thank you so much. A Michigan LDS church was targeted in a horrific attack this weekend. In response, we saw acts of bravery and heroism. Coming up next, I'm going to talk to a woman who dropped everything to go and help save lives. Stay with us.

58:09international aid when a crazed man motivated by apparent bigotry fired upon and set fire to a michigan ld lds church on sunday ultimately killing four people and injuring eight others hundreds of nurses at the nearest hospital were refusing to work because for five weeks prior employees at henry ford genesis hospital had been on strike amid negotiations on a new labor contract. But after the clouds of smoke began to rise overhead and ambulances began racing past, well, a group of those nurses knew they couldn't just stand by and watch. Joining me now is one of those nurses, Elise Vincent. Elise, walk us through the day.

58:52When did you realize something terrible had happened and feel compelled to run to work? So a few of us were, I mean, there were nurses on campus like walking the picket line, but there were a few of us out doing other union business. So I received a phone call actually from a manager that had told me that there was an event that was happening near the hospital. I had already received some phone calls from some other people that were in the area saying that we may have a code black event and it may be mass casualty. So at that time, all of us that were out running, doing union business, we jumped in our cars and we drove straight to the hospital.

59:28It wasn't even a question about our labor dispute, we got in our cars and we went because we knew our community was in trouble. That sounds like it sounds like nurses from what I know of nurses. What was it like inside the hospital? I actually did not get to enter the hospital just because we got many of us got called off. Only a few people were able to enter for about 30 minutes. Their account, they really said it was it was very chaotic. Nobody knew how many ambulances would be there. And then once those nurses got, once administration told them that they had to leave the hospital, everyone jumped into action and headed to the scene and then headed to a very big movie theater we call the Trillium where the reunification process started with the American Red Cross.

1:00:11So first responders in Red Cross, they welcomed us with open arms and our help, even though we weren't allowed to actually help inside of our hospital. Nurses do more than just assist with physical injuries in situations such as Sundays? What kind of emotional support were you able to provide? I mean, nursing, we always talk about how nurses, we give meds, we dress wounds, but at the end of the day, we give hugs. We figure out, are you okay? Do you have someone to go home with? Most of us sprung into action. We were hugging people, getting water. We grabbed all of our snacks from the strike line and brought them up to the first responders, the victims, the Red Cross, anyone we could.

1:00:52And then once we kind of that situation, the reunification process happened, a lot of nurses started getting their cars, getting their car seats. And we started transporting kids back home with their families because they weren't unable to get their cars because they were at the scene. So we just used every resource that we had available outside of the hospital to help the community. Have you ever seen anything like that before? Oh, absolutely not. I've grown up in Michigan my whole life. I've lived in Genesee County my entire life. And I have never encountered something that that would have hurt this much of my community ever.

1:01:28This is something that we could have never, ever planned for. We prep for it, but you never plan on it happening in your community. What is the status of the labor negotiations now? Did did this attack change anything? No, actually, our labor dispute, I feel, got a little bit more contentious. the hospital decided that they didn't want us to have any on our picket area. They didn't want us to have chairs or any like the camping sun shades we were using because it is 90 degrees here right now in Michigan still and the sun is out. So they actually came to us and said that they would go further legally if we did not remove any objects from the strike line.

1:02:12And they're going to allow us only three porta potties for 750 striking nurses. All right. Well, as I always say, thank God for nurses. Elise Vincent, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Have a good day. Pope Leo may have inadvertently waded into the world of politics. Hear his remarks that are not going over too well with some conservative Catholics. That's next.

1:02:39The reason why the American people's government is shut down is because Chuck Schumer is listening to the far left radicals in his own party because he's terrified of a primary challenge. The Democrats, if they're so worried about the effect this is having on the American people, and they should be, what they should do is reopen the government, not complain about how we respond to the fact that Chuck Schumer and the Democrats have shut down the government in the first place. And we're back on Capitol Hill with our politics lead, the government shutdown. Let's discuss with our panel, Karen Finney, a former senior advisor to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, Alyssa Farrah Griffin, the White House communications director in Trump's first term.

1:03:17Alyssa, Vice President Vance says that Schumer is terrified of a primary challenge from AOC. What do you think? Listen, you can't ignore the politics of this. There was a close call of a shutdown earlier this year. Chuck Schumer did what I think is prudent and what leaders in Congress are supposed to do. And he cut a deal and the government remained funded. But he's never been more unpopular than he has since that choice. So I think there was a lot of pressure from his progressive flank to not vote to fund the government. And listen, what I've been telling folks is Donald Trump wants this fight.

1:03:52So Democrats should not want it. If Donald Trump is prepared for the government to be shut down, he wanted this to be the case. I think that spells something about how he how likely he thinks it is that Democrats are going to be able to outmaneuver or out message him from this. And Karen, yeah, this is not the only one to make that argument. The Washington Post editorial board says Democrats just marched into a shutdown trap. They specifically blamed progressive Democrats. And they're saying the chances are slim that the two parties could ever come to any terms that these progressive Democratic activists would ever view as a decisive victory.

1:04:28What do you think? You know, here's what I think we have to remember that changed. Yes, Senator Schumer's political fortunes have been a little shaky regardless to shut down or not shut down. But remember that in the interim, the big ugly bill has passed and we have seen very clearly from the American people, they absolutely hate it. They don't just dislike it. They hate it. We've seen real rage from people throughout the summer. So part of Democrats position, I think, is recognizing part of why I think they believe they're on strong ground is, number one, we're taught it's not a, quote unquote, clean CR, as the Republicans continue to say.

1:05:08it does include those cuts. It includes that$1 trillion cut to Medicaid. It also means that, you know, the other factor that they're fighting for is the health care subsidy. So I think they believe they're on strong ground because the American people want this. They do not want to see kind of the continuation of the big, ugly bill. Alyssa, yesterday, both Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic leader, met with President Trump as the government was just hours away from shutting down. President Trump posted a photo from the meeting where you can see a red hat on the table, two of them actually, it says Trump 2028, which apparently President Trump offered to the Democratic leaders.

1:05:52We know that Trump loves to troll. What do you make of this? The time, the place, the fact that this was not the only meme that President Trump used to troll them. I mean, this is a serious thing, the government shutdown. People are not only working without pay, some of them are not working without pay, and some of them might lose their jobs permanently. Listen, I think it tells you everything about where the president's head is with regard to this shutdown. So I was in the White House working for Vice President Pence during the last government shutdown, the longest in history. And it was a very different atmosphere.

1:06:30There was a recognition that we had to find a policy solution. Republicans' position on that issue was around border security and wanting greater enforcement. But there was a real recognition by President Trump of we've got to find an off ramp here. We've got to get a compromise that meets what I'm trying to achieve here. I don't get that sense at all from the White House, from people I'm talking to. They very much seem to be relishing this fight. They're posting the memes. They're putting out the 2028 hats. And that is because, and I've said this many times, OMB is going to decide what's funded.

1:07:02Russ Vogt is going to decide what aspects of the federal government continue to be operating. This is somebody who loves doge cuts. This is somebody who wants to dismantle the administrative state and wants to shrink the federal workforce. This is in many ways a MAGA and Trump administration dream. They get to keep what they want going and they get to turn off Democratic priorities. But can we also just point out, Jake, they are going to do that anyway. I think that's the other reality and think that has changed. We have already seen them continue to do that. So to suggest that somehow the shutdown is the reason that they might do it is preposterous, right?

1:07:36We know they've already been doing it. It's what they want to do regardless. We could reopen and they could do it anyway. I don't think there's any trust. And I do think that some of these pictures and memes, you know, make the president seem very unserious in a moment that is very serious. And in a moment where, again, I mean, my first shutdown was in the Clinton administration. And let me tell you what, Newt Gingrich was jonesing for that fight. And we all know how that one turned out. So I think being too eager for the fight could actually be part of what is the undoing of President Trump and the Republicans in this one.

1:08:13Let's change this subject if I could, because this is an interesting story to me. Alyssa, Pope Leo was recently asked to comment on the fact that Democratic Senator Dick Durbin was receiving or possibly was going to receive a Catholic Lifetime Achievement Award. But local bishops said Durbin should not get the award because of his voting record in favor of abortion rights. Take a look. It's important to look at many issues that are related to what is the teaching of the church. Someone who says I'm against abortion but says I'm in favor of the death penalty is not really pro-life. So someone who says that I'm against abortion, but I'm in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants who are in the United States, I don't know if that's pro-life.

1:09:03White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt, a Catholic today, said that she rejects the notion that there is any inhumane treatment of immigrants going on under this administration. But tell me what you think about Pope Leo's remarks about abortion, because I've seen a lot of pushback from conservative Catholics. Yeah, and I'm Episcopalian, but I share pro-life beliefs. And I think that this was something that many people were waiting to hear from this new pope to see where he would come down on this debate, because there is really a split between more conservative Catholics and some of the more liberal Catholics.

1:09:36But a pro-life position has been consistently Catholic and within the Christian church. I think that there's going to be a tendency to overread politics into this. We're so American-centric and politics-centric that we want to apply it to what's happening here. But it's a universal take that he's giving for the world. So as a Catholic, as a sort of center-left Catholic, if you will, I think also what he is trying to do is return the church to its roots in terms of being with the people and being a little bit more sort of forgiving or open to the idea that perhaps we can hold different viewpoints and still be good Catholics and still be good Christians and believers of the faith.

1:10:17Karen, Pope Leo also just weighed in on another political and global issue calling President Trump's Gaza plan a realistic proposal. Yeah, I honestly didn't see the full quote, so I would want to see that. And I would want to, again, see whether or not, I mean, I think a lot of this depends not just on what the Palestinians decide to do, what the rest of the region decides to do, but whether or not Bibi Netanyahu will actually keep his word because we've seen him break his word consistently to Donald Trump, who said he would get this done in 24 hours and it's now been almost nine months. All right, thanks to both of you.

1:10:54Appreciate it. She changed how the world looks at animals. Next, we're going to take a look at the life of the legend Jane Goodall.

1:11:08Jake Tapper:We want no aluminum in the vaccine. The MMR, I think, should be taken separately. This is based on what I feel is climate change. It's the greatest con job ever perpetrated on the world, in my opinion. The carbon footprint is a hoax made up by people with evil intentions. Man, President Trump there making several striking false claims last week, none of them supported by data that the scientific community find credible. The rhetoric and that of members of his administration contributes to what my next guests call a global anti-science campaign in their new book, Science Under Siege. Dr. Peter Hotez and Dr.

1:11:55Michael Mann join us now. Dr. Hotez, you specialize in vaccine development and disease. Dr. Mann studies climate change. And you explain how these two threats are linked together. You write, quote, we find ourselves facing not just a one-two punch of pandemics and the climate crisis, but a one-two-three punch with that third punch, anti-science, obstructing the needed response from government and civil society. Dr. Hotez, can you give us a quick overview of what you call the five major players contributing to anti-science?

1:12:24Jake Tapper:Yeah, the point is, Jake, it is a whole ecosystem. And the five Ps, and credit to Michael there, he loves the alliteration. It's the plutocrats, people like Elon Musk, the Koch brothers, the Petra states, and even the far right part of the United States resembles a Petra state. the pros, the credentialed talking heads that we see too often pushing misinformation, the propagandists who amplify it, and then the press, and not just the far-right press, the Murdoch media empire, but even some of the false equivalency given by some of the legacy media. Dr. Mann, you call the threats of climate change and pandemics inextricably interwoven.

1:13:14Tell me more about that. Yeah, thanks, Jake. Good to be with you. So they're interwoven in the sense that the climate crisis and environmental degradation is actually leading to the conditions that favor these novel pandemics, these novel viruses, COVID-19. We expect more of this in the future, in part because of the aggravating effects of climate change. And so these things are coupled. Climate change is a crisis on its own. Pandemics are a crisis on their own. And indeed, misinformation, disinformation and the promotion of anti-science is making it impossible for us to tackle either or any of the great challenges that we face today.

1:14:00And that's really the point. Anti-science has become deadly. Dr. Mann, let's dive a little deeper into the petro states, Saudi Arabia or Texas, I suppose, as two examples, states or countries that rely heavily on fossil fuels. One of the most prominent, of course, is Russia. President Trump recently called for the EU to place sanctions on Russian oil as a way to place more pressure on Putin in his war on Ukraine. Now, in your book, you make the claim that Russia once again, this is a quote now, Russia once again interfered in the 2024 U.S. presidential election on Trump's behalf and arguably was the primary reason he prevailed.

1:14:38Explain what you mean by that, because just to be clear, you're not talking about anybody hacking the election, but you are talking about an influence campaign. So explain that. Indeed. And this is something we see from these petro states, from Russia, from Saudi Arabia. They have sought to sort of poison the well when it comes to global efforts to move away from fossil fuels towards renewable energy, because, of course, these are countries whose economies are fundamentally dependent on the extraction and sale of their fossil fuels. And one of the tactics that they've used is to weaponize social media, Twitter, Facebook, to use social media to create just an overwhelming echo chamber of anti-science, to create conflict, to sort of confuse the discussion and make it very difficult for these social media platforms to be the sort of public square where scientists can communicate the science and its implications to the public.

1:15:42They've done everything to use social media, really to magnify misinformation and disinformation, all in a service, all in service of this agenda, this agenda to paralyze efforts to move away from fossil fuels. And indeed, this ideologically driven agenda now to discredit public health scientists like Peter. And in the book, we talk about why and how these things are interlinked and why it's all part of one larger campaign to basically just, you know, prevent any meaningful dialogue that will lead to solutions to these problems that we face. And Dr. Hotez, some of the five forces, the five Ps can blend together.

1:16:24The plutocrats especially can weave their influence into politics and propaganda. Tell me how you saw that escalate during the pandemic.

1:16:31Jake Tapper:Yeah, I mean, we saw this when 200 ,000 Americans died, Jake, 200 ,000 because they refused COVID vaccines. And it wasn't random. This was a targeted political campaign that convinced Americans that COVID vaccines didn't work. And in their push against vaccine mandates, which you could kind of understand, they actually discredited the effectiveness and safety. And Americans died in droves. So this is why we care. It's become a killing, a lethal force. Science Under Siege, it's available now. Dr. Peter Hotez, Dr. Michael Mann, thanks for joining us. Our last lead start in our health lead, it is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and a new study from the British Medical Journal found that women who miss their first mammogram appointment could have a 40 % higher long-term risk of dying from breast cancer.

1:17:24The study involved more than 400 ,000 women monitored for up to 25 years. Last year, the U.S. lowered the recommended age for most women to start receiving mammograms to 40 years old. So listen to the study. Don't miss that first mammogram. In our pop culture lead, the most ferocious competition of the year is over. It's the Fat Bear 2025 competition. It has a new champion. Out of the 12 chubbiest bears, am I allowed to say that? A true underdog has won. Bear 32, nicknamed Chunk. I did not give the bear the nickname Chunk, so don't get mad at me. Chunk suffered from a jaw injury, but still achieved the impossible.

1:18:08This contest follows bears in Alaska's Cotton Eye National Park as they eat as much salmon as possible as they prepare for hibernation. At the same time, they try to win the hearts of the internet. They're all winners, really, aren't they? And our world lead, the legendary Jane Goodall has passed away at the age of 91. Goddall spent her life studying animal behavior and emotions by chronicling the lives of chimpanzees. She was the very first woman to conduct field studies on chimpanzees in the wild, arriving in Tanzania in 1960 at the age of 26 with no formal scientific education. But her research changed how scientists study animals, all animals.

1:18:48Goddall was the very first to observe primates making and using tools, eating meat, performing rituals and using their own form of language to communicate, proving to the world just how closely related humans and primates are. It had long been thought that we were the only creatures on Earth that used and made tools. Man the toolmaker is how we were defined.

1:19:18And here was David Grabeard. using a tool.

1:19:30It was hard for me to believe what I'd seen. Goodall's research has been described as representing, quote, one of the Western world's greatest scientific achievements. Goodall created the Jane Goodall Institute in 1977, which became one of the world's largest non-profit research and conservation organizations. In the 1990s, she created Roots and Shoots to get children interested in studying animals. This past January, she was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Biden. Goddall passed away due to natural causes in California while on her latest speaking tour in the United States, according to the Goddall Institute.

1:20:05May her memory be a blessing. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show once you get your podcasts. Erin Burnett Out Front starts now.