White House Yet To Say If Trump Has Received Epstein Bill

26:39You're working about two jobs. You know, I was 14 at the time and she said, I got a really, you know, easy gig for you. And I said, sure, why not? And, you know, she said to me, well, you're gonna go in and, you know, you're gonna do massage with an older gentleman and he's very rich and very, you know, very cool and it'll be something quick and you'll make, you know, 300 bucks. And I was like, okay, you know, being a young girl at 14, it didn't seem like the worst thing ever only because I was abused by my stepfather from the age, and not only, you know, emotionally and sexually abused. I was physically abused by him.

27:16So it didn't seem like the worst thing ever, but little did I know that the abuse of Epstein was, that was another, it was just another beginning for me with Epstein. So obviously that caused a lot of trauma for you, understandably. There is at least one woman who didn't show up at the event with the fellow survivors and it was explained as to why, and that's because she was fearful. because of the threats. I'm wondering what it takes to use your voice and come out like this and what you face throughout this ordeal. You know, I have to say all of the survivors, you know, are very scared. You know, I think some of us are empowered and, you know, to keep on going and to keep on speaking because we don't want for other women or other men who are getting abused to feel like they need to be silenced because they are threatened.

28:08But we do have to respect, you know, how other survivors feel, you know, and we also have to understand that we are dealing with very powerful people here, so we don't have any protection. But for myself, I've only gotten love from the public and and from everybody all over the world and I think and I hope that it continues to stay this way. I hope it's been healing for you in some way after all that you have been through. Marina La Cerda, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Up next, what former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers told his students at Harvard about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

28:45Video from inside the classroom as he takes private steps to remove himself from the public eye.

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29:38and that I've said that I'm going to step back from public activities for a time, but I think it's very important to fulfill my teaching obligations. So that was Larry Summers, former Treasury Secretary turned Harvard professor, addressing his students yesterday about his connections to the Epstein scandal. The Crimson Student Newspaper says the university is launching an investigation into Summers' ties to Epstein. Summers also announced today that he is resigning from the board of OpenAI. by Summers name surfaced in emails released by the House Oversight Committee. And in the messages, Summers appears to make sexist comments and tries to get Epstein's romantic advice.

30:18Those emails were from the Epstein estate. We have yet to see what else is in those DOJ files. Senator Elizabeth Warren again made clear today where she stands on Summers holding any position of power. No one should trust Larry Summers' judgment, and Larry Summers should not be trusted in a position of responsibility or in a position of teaching our students. All right, let's bring in the panel. And I want to start with you, Arlette, because you were the one who spoke with Senator Warren there. Are you seeing similar outrage from other lawmakers on the Hill? Well, Elizabeth Warren is a unique figure here.

30:56She has clashed with Larry Summers in the past over economic policy. And she did serve as a professor of law at Harvard Law School for quite some time. So I think that's part of what is fueling her willingness to be out there criticizing Summers and saying that he should not be in a teaching position or in a position of power. But we really haven't heard a ton of Democrats rushing to the cameras to criticize Larry Summers after these email exchanges were released. But there is an acknowledgement from Democrats on Capitol Hill that the release of the Epstein files could impact members of their own party.

31:30Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer was asked about that today and asked about Republicans who have said that there could be Democrats, there could be Democratic donors who come up in this email list. And Schumer says, we just need to get the information out there regardless of which party is going to be impacted. So Democrats are well aware that this could impact people within their party and they may have to grapple with the fallout of that as well. Yeah, that is certainly happening with their own Congresswoman, right? Stacey Plaskett, who barely escaped a censure after communicating with Epstein during a 2019 hearing where she was questioning Michael Cohen.

32:03I actually had her on my show earlier today, The Situation Room, and I asked her about this, if she had any regrets texting with him. And this is what she said. I think Jeffrey Epstein is a reprehensible person, Absolutely disgusting. I believe that Jeffrey Epstein had information and I was going to get information to get at the truth. Having a friendship with him is not something that I would deem to have. And so I'm just looking forward. So no regrets, basically, is what you're saying. I'm moving forward. Kate, do you think she can, in her words, move forward from this? Or do you think she should have acknowledged more there?

32:44I think she should have acknowledged more. I also think she should have accepted censure from the House. And I think the way the Democrats handled this, I think, was not smart, frankly. I am not certain she'll be able to move on from it, in part because this is going to continue to be a conversation if and when we see the files. There are going to be more names. We know that there are potentially going to be, as Arlette was saying, Democratic donors or others. And I think Democrats should hold a very tough line on this. You know, I think anybody who was involved in inappropriate conversations with Epstein or in any way whitewashing Epstein's behavior should absolutely be held accountable for that.

33:25And I think Democrats should be very tough about that, even if they are people who have historically been helpful to the Democratic Party. If the shoe was on the other foot, it would be very different. Absolutely. And there's a moral and ethical question here, too. Some things do actually supersede politics. And this is one of them, in my opinion. What do you think, Matt? No, I mean, look, this is the kind of the flip side of what Democrats have been talking about for months. They've been talking about this and wanting to get the bottom of it because they, you know, I think they thought it could hurt Republicans.

33:48We're seeing the flip side of that. Stacey Plaskett, Hakeem Jeffries soliciting or his firm soliciting money from Jeffrey Epstein and Larry Summers. This is the flip side of that with Democrats now getting involved in this. It's going to be a reckoning. I think when we see most of these files come out, maybe some new names as well. Who knows? So, you know, I do want to follow up with you, though, because at the same time, you're talking about comm strategy, how they should handle this. When you look at the overall Republican strategy over Epstein and the files and whether to release him or not, it's a bit of whiplash over the last couple of weeks.

34:21What do you make of that? I think finally there is acknowledgement that you're not going to be able to stop this train. The horse is out of the barn, so to speak. So get it over with. Get the vote. And, you know, as you saw with President Trump, focus on what people I think are actually going to vote on next year, which is the economy, right? And I think that is what inevitably ended up becoming the strategy of this. But you're right. I think you're going to see both parties be affected by this. We've certainly seen a summer where Republicans were on the defensive over this. And now I think the White House feels like they can go on offense a little bit with the Democratic names now being circulated.

34:52Although I would say, I mean, Trump, the way Trump has handled this, he has behaved as if he is guilty. Whether he is guilty or not, he has behaved. He has had the posture of somebody who was doing everything in his power to try to keep these files from being made public. We've also seen him repeatedly, even after he kind of reluctantly gave the blessing to the House Republicans to vote for the release. You know, we saw him be asked yesterday about this in the Oval and had an incredibly defensive, angry response, had an incredibly defensive, angry response on Air Force One when he was asked about it.

35:21So the idea that he is somehow going to, I think, change his posture in a way that is going to allow him to move past this, I'm not sure I see that either. I'll go to you in a second or a lot, but just to follow up with you, because you used to be in the White House, right? What do you make of the Republicans criticism now saying, look, Democrats suddenly, now that Trump has taken office, they're acting like they care so much and they're being so vocal about this. Where was that outcry in the Biden administration? Well, during the Biden administration, for example, Ghislaine Maxwell was still, her case was still on appeal.

35:54So there were legal limitations to what could have been And under appeal until October of this year, right? To what could have been made public. But also, Donald Trump and Trump's allies are the ones who campaigned on releasing these files. I mean, I think that's the important thing here. This is an expectation that Trump and his allies set by declaring repeatedly that if he became president, he's the one who would release these files. So this is a discussion in many ways of his own making. I'm just wondering, Arlette, as you're talking to sources on Capitol Hill, what are they saying about this and all the whiplash?

36:25Well, I think that a lot of people are bracing for what happens once these files are released. And you've already heard lawmakers start to talk about what could happen if the Justice Department decides to withhold information. I think that that's something that a lot of these lawmakers are thinking about very hard. Earlier today, we heard from Senator Blumenthal, who said that he's already thinking of different ways to obtain information in the event that the Justice Department doesn't follow through with this. So I think there's going to be a lot of focus from both Democrats and Republican lawmakers on holding the Justice Department to account and making sure that they adhere to this statute.

36:59And you also saw the chairman of the oversight, the Republican chairman Comer, issue subpoenas to two financial institutions, I think just yesterday. So it continues on different fronts. Thank you all so much. Stick around. There's a lot more to talk about. A red carpet welcome wasn't enough. Ahead, the second day of President Trump promoting his budding relationship with the Saudi Crown Prince, the man the CIA said ordered a deadly hit on journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

37:30In the world lead tomorrow, more of the newly freed Israeli hostages who came out of Gaza under the U.S.-brokered ceasefire plan will meet President Donald Trump at the White House. One of those is Barr Cooperstein, a security guard at the Nova Music Festival, taken hostage on October 7, 2023, after he stayed to help others at the scene, a decision he says he would make again. He endured beatings and starvation, but never stopped believing he would return home. Cooperstein sat down with CNN's Oren Lieberman before his flight to Washington. Barr Cooperstein, thank you for sitting down with us. How are you, and how is it to be back in Israel?

38:10It's an amazing feeling. There is an excitement every day when you wake up in the morning here, and not there in the tunnels, and you are alive and breathing. I thank God every day for this. Take me back to the 7th of October. What do you remember from that day? Everything. It's etched here in my mind for the rest of my life. You came out of captivity a month ago. You've told your story. You've spoken at Hostages Square. What is it that even when they hear your story, people simply can't understand about what you went through? There were moments when they tried to execute us, when they starved us, when they abused us, whether with beatings, physically, verbally,

38:59depriving us from basic human conditions. It was awful. You feel like the most miserable person in the world. Whatever we went through, we said among ourselves that we are simply in hell. I think that God put us in a kind of test. We told ourselves that we are now at the lowest point, the bottom of the bottom, and from there we can only go up. You've talked about your religion and how it became stronger while you were in captivity. How? Why? In captivity, one really connects to God. You can talk to him. He saved me, not once or twice. I was supposed to be killed, in bombings or something else in these whole two years.

39:45Every day was a miracle that I stayed alive. And you want to express gratitude for that, so you give what you can of yourself. You're going to the United States, you're going to meet President Donald Trump. What are you going to say to him? First of all, thank you very much. He played a big part in us getting out of there. And I don't know what else. I guess whatever is on my heart.

40:11I see him as an emissary of God. God said we needed to get out of there, and he was the emissary. He did it.

40:20Bar, thank you for your time.

40:25Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper. And this hour, President Trump is pushing the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia. Today, selling the financial ties between the two nations. So how does Congress feel about this? I'll ask a Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Plus, questions about the bill to release the Epstein files. When will President Trump sign that bill will go live to the White House. Also, eye-popping numbers from Wall Street. The AI chipmaker, NVIDIA, just reported sales growing more than 60 % since last year. So does that calm down these fears of an AI bubble or cause even more worry?

41:05And the stage play heating up in the climate world and you can get a front row seat to the drama.

41:16The lead tonight fresh off President Trump's warm embrace of Saudi Arabia's crown prince Mohammed bin Salman in the Oval Office, followed by a lavish White House dinner. Today, President Trump just served his good friend, that's a quote, a new heaping dose of praise. This time at the U.S. Saudi Investment Forum hosted at the Kennedy Center. President Trump touted a$1 trillion Saudi investment in the U.S. CNN's Caitlin Collins is live at the White House. So, as you know, Caitlin, President Trump had a lot to say about this new elevated relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. Yeah, Pam, and I think if yesterday's Oval Office sit-down didn't illustrate enough just how close the president's relationship truly is with the Saudi royal kingdom and the royal family, I mean, today certainly put that on display.

42:02as he was giving those remarks here in Washington one day after he stood by the Saudi crown prince and defended him over the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, which the CIA found had been personally ordered by MBS. The president today was touting the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia and said this. It's a great honor. That happens seldom. That's a sign of trust. We signed a historic strategic defense agreement yesterday also, and that's something that is likewise very rare and it's a very honored company that you're in. Pam, the president there was referencing that defense agreement that they had long planned to sign when the crown prince was coming here to Washington.

42:50Of course, it comes shortly after he signed a similar one with Qatar earlier this year. just speaking to the president's view of the Middle East and how he's navigating that through his own foreign policy lens. It's earned him some criticism from some people in MAGA, in the MAGA world, obviously saying that that is not what he ran on and what his supporters wanted him to run on when he was running for office. And of course, the fallout has continued over those remarks yesterday, with Republicans sidestepping the president's comments when they've been asked about them, including the majority leader, John Thune, earlier today on that front when it comes to Jamal Khashoggi's killing, something that has been deeply investigated not only by the Turkish government but also the United State government.

43:30And the other big news of course we're following at the White House, Caitlin, is that Epstein bill. Any idea when President Trump is going to sign it? No Pam. I mean it's just after six o 'clock here. We just walked by the West Wing. Typically when the president is still over in the West Wing there's a Marine stationed outside the front door as you know. There's not one right now and so it appears that the president is not in the West Wing this evening. It's not completely clear. But we have not gotten anything from the White House all day about whether or not the president plans to sign that bill in front of the cameras or off camera inside the Oval Office.

44:02Typically, they've obviously made a huge show of when he does sign bills or executive orders or pardons or anything of the like inside the Oval Office with his staff secretary there handing him those documents. We have not seen any of that. And we've asked the White House multiple times if the president has even signed this bill yet and they have given us no indication of that Pam. All right Caitlin Collins at the White House for tonight. Thank you so much and watch for more reaction from Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett tonight on The Source with Caitlin Collins at 9 Eastern here on CNN.

44:36And here now is Republican Congressman Mike Lawler. He serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee. Hi Congressman. So I wanted to to start with your reaction to Saudi Arabia's new designation as a major non-NATO ally. Look, from my vantage point as chair of the Middle East and North Africa subcommittee, Saudi Arabia is a critical ally in the region and around the globe. If we are to combat the malign influence of Iran, China, Russia long term, Saudi Arabia is a critical strategic partner, both in terms of stability and peace in the Middle East, but the larger goal of shared economic prosperity around the globe.

45:21So from the standpoint of being a NATO ally, if you will, I think it's a positive step forward. And I think it goes to the larger strategic mission, which is to really normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. So there is the strategic component. There is also the moral component. You've been a strong supporter of 9-11 victims and families, even introducing a law that would prevent 9-11 terrorists from receiving plea deals. Here's how the Saudi crown prince responded when asked about the 9-11 families, quote, furious, being furious with his Oval Office visit. I feel painful about families of 9-11 in America, but we have to focus on reality.

46:12Reality based on CIA documents and based on a lot of documents that Osama bin Laden used Saudi people in that event for one main purpose, is to destroy this relation, to destroy the American-Saadi relation. That's the purpose of 9-11. What did you make of that response? Look, foreign policy is messy, and I have been a strong supporter of our 9-11 families as a New Yorker. What happened on 9-11 was the most tragic day in our country, and there is no question that there has been serious, legitimate, and verified concerns pertaining to the role of some in the Saudi government on 9-11. I think the crown prince is certainly correct that Osama bin Laden's objective was to undermine the relationship between Saudi Arabia and the U.S.

47:15in part, as we saw with Iran's objective of trying to prevent normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia on October 7th. So there is challenges anytime you are dealing with foreign policy. As allies, you have to have an honest dialogue about these issues and work through them. The long-term objective is to strengthen the relationship, to address any of these concerns. It's part of the reason why I've been very vocal in support of the 9-11 families and will continue you to do so. I think having these conversations is critical. It's not something that can be swept under the rug, but I think you also obviously long term have to look strategically at how we move forward, how we ensure that a 9-11 or an October 7th never happens again.

48:10So you have the 9-11 families here. You have the former colleagues and the family of Jamal Khashoggi who was killed and the U.S. intelligence community assessed that MBS likely ordered that. He has denied that. What do you say to those families who want to see some accountability here? I understand it. And certainly, you know, the Crown Prince's response yesterday in saying that mistakes were made, that they have tried to make reforms to ensure that that type of situation, with jamal khashoggi doesn't happen again that should never happen period uh shouldn't have happened to begin with um but you know ultimately uh he is the crown prince he will ultimately be the king of saudi arabia and we have to deal with that reality and ultimately we're going to have to as allies work through these issues i will tell you having visited saudi arabia in may of this year.

49:17There have been significant reforms and changes made in the country that I think is a positive step forward and something that for the long-term stability in the region and in the Middle East is imperative. If we are going to avoid another 9-11, avoid another October 7th, It requires having strong partnerships, inclusive of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and other Arab states. That is the only way we are going to be able to establish peace and stability in the Middle East. So there are always going to be challenges. From my standpoint, you cannot sweep it under the rug. You cannot dismiss it. It's imperative as allies to have honest dialogue, diplomatically but directly.

50:05and I think that is something that we have to keep in mind as we work through these issues. All right I want to ask you about something else another big issue and that is the Epstein files bill. Before it passed overwhelmingly in the House Speaker Johnson called the vote a quote moot point because of the House oversight's investigation. He also said it was a quote political show vote pushed by Democrats. I spoke to an Epstein survivor today she is a Republican and here's what she said about Speaker Johnson's role in all of this. I was present in the room when they were doing the votes, as well as all the survivors.

50:38And I can say the only theatrics I saw was from him. I think some of his comments were on that fine line. This is not a hoax. There is no theater coming from us or the survivors on our end.

50:55I'm appalled by him in general. And I've lost a lot of respect by him. What is your response to her? Look, I fully respect the opinions and the views of the victims. They are the ones that should be front and center in this entire discussion. As I have said repeatedly, anyone who committed a crime as part of Jeffrey Epstein's crimes, whether it involved human trafficking, sex trafficking, procuring a child for prostitution, sexual abuse of a minor should be prosecuted, period, full stop. And from my vantage point, this whole situation should have always been focused on the victims of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

51:47Unfortunately, throughout this conversation over many months, a lot of it centered centered around politics. And I think that's the frustration that has erupted on Capitol Hill. The oversight committee has released over 60 ,000 documents in the past three months. Those documents are available for people to review. With this passage of this legislation, the Department of Justice should immediately release all remaining documents, and the chips should fall wherever they do. And anybody that was involved in the crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein should be prosecuted. I have said that repeatedly from the start.

52:28These victims deserve justice. And that is what the focus should be about. Sadly, at times, that has not been the case. But just to follow up, I mean, should Speaker Johnson have held this vote earlier, given and what was clearly the inevitability, and it passed almost unanimously. I mean, I spoke to someone earlier who said this could have been done four months ago. Look, the Oversight Committee has been doing the work. They have been subpoenaing the records and releasing that to the public. So this notion that somehow yesterday's vote was the first time anything is going to be released is just not accurate.

53:08it. But furthermore, yeah, obviously, if we could have done this earlier, that would have been great. Unfortunately, the Democrats shut the government down for 43 days unnecessarily and delayed this vote that could have been done as early as September. So, yes, I would have liked to see this vote ultimately happen sooner. But we are where we are today, and the Department of Justice should release any remaining documents that they have in their possession and prosecute anyone that was involved in these crimes. As you know, the Democrats say that Speaker Johnson didn't have to send everyone home during that and that he could have sworn in Adelita Grijalva.

53:48Both sides have their stories, right? Congressman Mike Lawler, thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate your time. Thank you. We are awaiting word from the White House on when President Trump will sign the bill to release the Epstein files. And once that happens, just how much could we learn? An attorney who's represented nearly 20 Epstein victims join us next. Joins us next. Plus, breaking tonight in our money lead, the earnings report that had Wall Street holding its breath. Coming up, the news anyone who has retirement savings will want to know about.

54:24The top story tonight in our law and justice lead, the bill to release the Epstein files has been sent to the White House and now awaits President Trump's signature. But officials are not yet offering any detail on when that could happen. President Trump told reporters earlier this week that he would sign the bill. Once it becomes law, then the Justice Department will have 30 days to release the files. I want to bring in Jack Sparola. He is an attorney who has represented nearly 20 Epstein abuse survivors and spent 18 years litigating cases against Epstein. Jack, thank you so much for coming on.

54:58So once this bill is law, there are a few exceptions. carved out that can allow the Justice Department to redact or withhold some information that is confidential to victims, child sex abuse material, or anything that could potentially jeopardize an investigation or national security. What do you think that could mean for what the public does and does not see when it comes to this case? Unfortunately, we have been involved in this battle for 18 years. And what we have learned is to be very skeptical about announcements and assertions about what we are going to receive. And we need to look carefully at what ultimately is released when it is released in order to come to some determination as to whether significant documents are still being withheld.

55:54But it is important, it's extremely important to remember that we are highly unlikely to get the answers to fundamental questions from any release of documents, regardless of how complete it may be. What we are likely to learn is that the more is disclosed about the nature of what went on over the course of the many years that this has been going on, the more we learn, the more we begin to recognize how many additional unanswered questions there still are. Well, back in July, the Justice Department memo on the Epstein case concluded that no further disclosure was appropriate or warranted. Then President Trump ordered the attorney general to investigate several high-profile figures named in the Epstein emails.

57:00She's named a prosecutor to look into that effort. These are prominent Dems. Here's what she said about that today. Let's listen. What changed since then that you launched this investigation? Information that has come forward. Information. There's information, new information, additional information. And again, we will continue to follow the law, to investigate any leads. If there are any victims, we encourage all victims to come forward. And we will continue to provide maximum transparency. What do you make of the pivot here from the Justice Department that previously said it did not uncover evidence to predicate an investigation into any third parties?

57:41The assertion that there are ongoing investigations causes anyone to be very concerned that the law mandating a disclosure to the extent that it does not jeopardize ongoing investigations has an enormous loophole that is likely to be utilized by the Justice Department to the maximum extent. We can't count on receiving everything that we should receive, but regardless of what we receive, we are going to find that the fundamental questions about how the justice system has been corrupted simply are not going to be answered by what's in these documents. It's going to take a thorough investigation that extends significantly beyond what has been reduced to paper at this point in time.

58:52All right, Jack Scarola, thank you for coming on the show. You are welcome.

59:25in the world worth approximately$4.5 trillion. NVIDIA is by far the largest maker of computer chips that power much of the world's artificial intelligence. So let's get right to CNN's Phil Maginley. What does NVIDIA say about its earnings and how is Wall Street reacting? NVIDIA is at least the implication based on the earnings I was just listening to, relax, relax. It has been an anxiety ridden last couple of weeks within the markets. People are trying to figure out there are a lot of elements of the AI boom, which is massive and dominant in the economy, that have made people concerned about the possibility of a bubble.

1:00:01NVIDIA was probably the most watched single company earnings report that I've ever seen in the 15 or 16 years I've covered this stuff. And the reason why is not just because it's the most valuable company in the world. It is a dominant player in the space. It is extraordinarily profitable. The revenues, again, this quarter, gangbusters. The demand was enormous. I think when we looked at the numbers, but also looked at the earnings call, the expectations going forward all above where analysts were and where they were last quarter. The critical point here is NVIDIA is kind of the choke point of the entire AI boom.

1:00:33Everything runs through or on some type of NVIDIA product, which means this isn't just about one company. This is about the entire space. This would be a leading indicator if demand was starting to drop, if the buildout needed to slow up a little bit. There is no indication of that in this report. And so for the broader markets, this is very good news. Still a lot of questions without any question. But for one night, at least, we get to relax. One night, we can sleep well. Yeah, just breathe. Just breathe a little bit. But I mean, let's talk a little bit more about that, this idea of an AI bubble, because you've heard some prominent people talk about the concerns about an AI bubble, prominent investors who have withdrawn their money from NVIDIA.

1:01:14So how does this sort of ease those fears of an AI bubble? From a broader industry perspective, again, the reason why this earnings report was so critical and why everyone was so focused on it is, one, there's just been a dearth of data. We haven't had government data for the last couple of months. There's been a lot of concern related to that shutdown-driven kind of blackout if we're missing something about the broader economy. AI in and of itself has been so central to U.S. GDP, to the U.S. economic growth over the course of the last year and a half, that any indication that it's starting to slow up, that there's revenue drops, that there's demand drops, would be a very, very significant concern.

1:01:51They didn't get that, so that's a good thing. The problem, or the concern, I guess you would say, when you talk to market participants who have gotten more behind the idea of a bubble, is there are a lot of elements that, if you look back to past bubbles, are similar. Maybe not entirely, but are similar. And I think the kind of critical questions that are still outstanding right now are, one, are the stocks currently priced for the idea that it's never going to stop growing? AI is just going to grow forever. And if that's the case, then that's going to be a problem when that doesn't happen. The other issue is what are they going to actually produce?

1:02:22Are there going to be products that will come out of this that people will buy? Is the uptake going to be as massive as is predicted? Those are open questions right now. And until there are answers, there's going to be real concerns. All right. I want to ask you about something else. And that is President Trump's, should we say, interesting comment about his Treasury Secretary Scott Bessett earlier today. Let's play some of that. The only thing Scott's blowing it on is the Fed. Because the Fed, the rates are too high, Scott. And if you don't get it fixed fast, I'm going to fire your ass, okay?

1:02:57Well, it appears to have been joking there, but he's clearly still unhappy with the Federal Reserve. How is that being interpreted? So here's how I think you should view those comments. One, you don't necessarily need to swear at a big speech, but I'm not offended by it. It certainly got laughter from the crowd. I think the critical element is this. Jay Powell, his term ends in May. One of the Treasury Secretary's big pushes behind the scenes has been, look, he's almost out of here. You're going to get your pick. You've had a couple of selections already. Don't make my job harder as Treasury Secretary and really rattle the entire global economy by doing this, by trying to do this, especially when you don't know if it's going to be legal.

1:03:31What you heard from the president today is really reflecting what I'd been hearing for several months about kind of the dynamics inside the West Wing, which is best in saying that, and Howard Lutnick, kind of the Commerce Secretary, being like, nah, sure, why not? If you're into it, go ahead. I don't think it's quite that simple. The reality is, if you're closely watching what's been happening here, when it was very clear the Fed was going to lower rates or cut rates in the last couple of meetings, the president did not say a single thing. Right now, market expectations are 50-50 at best. There's no clear guidance about what the Fed's going to do in December.

1:03:59suddenly the president starts talking about firing Jay Powell again. So working the refs is not something the president is afraid of doing. I think there's an element of that here. All right, Phil Maddenley, great to see you. Thanks so much. So will a Gaza-inspired peace plan for Ukraine work? Top Trump military officials are in Ukraine right now trying to make land concessions sound palatable to the war-torn country. And just ask Russia. Russia launched yet another deadly attack.

1:04:30All right, in our politics lead, a new poll is giving signs of life for the Democrats. The National NPR PBS News survey asks which party voters would back in Congress if the midterms were held today. Democrats hold a 14-point lead over Republicans as the party looks to duplicate last month's victories and stage a comeback next fall. My panel joins me now to discuss. So, Kate, this is the largest lead Democrats have held in the polls since, I believe, 2017. What do you attribute that to? A couple of things. I think, first of all, people are frustrated with the state of the economy. They feel like prices are not coming down.

1:05:09Trump campaigned very aggressively on I will bring prices down. I'll bring them down immediately. People aren't feeling that. And so they're looking for an alternative. And then secondly, I think Democrats have done a really good job in the campaigns and the elections that they've been contesting, the off-year elections. The Spanberger campaign, the Sherrill campaign, I think we're very effective at driving this contrast on the economy. And I think you're seeing a lot of energy coming into the party. The party's kind of waking up again after a really difficult 2024. And so they're finding their foothold in terms of offering an alternative direction to what people are seeing from Trump.

1:05:44And Matt, when voters were asked this last November, they were evenly divided among each party, if you look at that. Is Trump to blame for these new numbers we're seeing, you think? Well, Trump was president about a month ago, too, so I don't think it's solely him. I was working for House Republicans in 2017, so those numbers have flashbacks, too. But look, I think one of the biggest things, I'm going to see if that's a consistent pattern. If we're seeing that same number 14, 10 plus in another month, then I think there's some alarms going off. I think Democrats inherently have an edge on the generic ballot, but that's about three or four points, not 14.

1:06:21I think one of the other things we have to do better at is we have to get the low propensity voters, the voters that only come out for Trump when he's in the ballot, out in those mid-year or those off-year elections as well. We used to be able to do it during the Obama years in 2014, 2010. We were great at it. But when the kind of the bases flipped a little bit, that's when we had trouble. We have to get that back. Well, and of course, one of the big campaign promises Trump made was on affordability, lowering prices. And as you well know, people are not necessarily feeling that. His supporters aren't.

1:06:52Do you think the Republicans are doing enough to address that issue and the White House as well? Yeah, I think refocusing on affordability. I mean, we're talking about the Epstein, the files during the last hour. And he made it very clear he wanted to focus again on affordability. There was a very clear message coming out of Virginia, New Jersey, and some of those off-year races that they need to make sure they're focusing, talking about affordability, on the things they can sell, like the gas prices going down, sell it. Things they can do better, focus in, double down on it. I will say, though, as somebody who sat in that White House Communications Director chair and spent a lot of time trying to talk about the things that were going well in the economy while people were feeling like prices were going up, people don't want to hear it.

1:07:31They don't want to hear macroeconomic talking points about GDP when they feel like they go to the store and their groceries are more expensive. And we've seen Trump over the last few weeks as he's clearly felt the pressure to come back to this affordability case. We've kind of seen him say, things are great. Things are going well. That is not a winning message when people are not feeling it. So what do you think as someone who was in that position? And you did hear President Biden at the time say, hey, look at the numbers. Things are good. What was the lesson learned there? How do you think the White House should communicate?

1:08:02Yeah, well, far be it for me to offer Donald Trump advice on how to win an election. But, you know, I think that he should, he's got to show that he understands what people are going through. I think a message that feels like he's not connecting with where people are, he's got to eat some humble pie. He's got to say prices haven't come down as quickly as I wanted them to. Here are the things I'm doing to bring them down. And he's got to focus on it relentlessly. I mean, another problem he has here is he continues to, you know, he's talking about the ballroom. He's obviously been dealing with the Epstein fallout.

1:08:34He's been doing a tremendous amount of foreign policy, been putting that front and center. And so I think voters just have not been hearing from him on affordability either, which is the other thing that he would have to adjust. But again, not looking to give Donald Trump advice on how to win elections. I know. I was just curious, though, what lessons learned were from that, having been in the White House during that time. But what do you say to Kate's point? I mean, this is like MBS is visiting right now. Right. I mean, there had been that criticism. He's too focused on hosting foreign leaders and traveling abroad.

1:09:02Now you have the Epstein saga. Are you concerned all of this is a distraction? No. I mean, look, one of the things I thought was really impressive. The day after Election Day, J.D. Vance came out and I almost took it as a playbook for how they can kind of come back from this. Talked about low propensity voters, talking about focusing on affordability. And I think you're right. I mean, from the outside, you were sitting in the chair. I wasn't. But I feel like it was always, in the Biden years, it's just around the corner, too. It's inflation. It's transitory. You have to acknowledge that Rome wasn't built in a day.

1:09:32And I think they need to acknowledge, kind of like what you said, is that even though it might not be where you want to go right now, there's a vision. There's a plan for it. But what about what Republicans are saying is this, you know, we inherited so much from the Biden administration with inflation. Is that really a winning message? I mean, it worked for Obama for how many years? I mean, it was the Bush economy for about three or four years of Obama's term. But no, no, seriously, though, you have to be realistic and you have to tell the truth about stuff. Coming in from the Biden years, it was not with the economy that we wanted.

1:09:59But again, I think you have to also own that you are now in charge. You have the ability to hopefully affect some policy that can bring down affordability, bring down costs. And again, gas prices are down. Sell that as well. That's not GDP is not some esoteric thing. It's real. People feel that almost more than anything else. and what you would respond to. I think the tithing time's up on the argument that this is the Biden economy. I think, especially because Trump came in and was so aggressive about implementing these tariffs that have caused prices to go up for people. He really, Trump really threw his arms around the economy.

1:10:29He really put his stamp on it. And so now to say to people, almost a year into his presidency, well, it's the Biden economy, I don't think that flies. All right, everyone, thanks so much. Great to see you. So is there a new plan in the works to end Russia's war in Ukraine? The movement happening overseas that may signal something is brewing up next.

1:10:52In our world lead, a rare Russian attack on Western Ukraine killed dozens today, including three children. And this comes as top U.S. Defense Department officials travel to Kiev to work on hammering out a new peace plan with Russia. CNN analyst Barack Ravid reports in Axios the Trump plan includes giving Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it doesn't currently control and turning it into a demilitarized zone. The plan, modeled off the Gaza peace proposal, would be an enormous win for Russia and likely a tough concession for Ukraine. CNN's Nick Payton-Walsh is following all of this from London. So Nick, tell us more about the scope of last night's attack.

1:11:32Pamela, a particularly horrific night in western Ukraine. Normally comparatively safe. A total of 470 drones and nearly 50 missiles launched. One, possibly more of them, hitting two nine-storey residential blocks in the town of Ternopil, where the latest count puts 25 killed. That's from across the country. But also two, 92 injured, 18 of them children, three of the dead children as well. Particularly horrific scenes in a city which would normally consider itself to be relatively safe, as I say. and the scale of Russian activity in Ukraine skies cause, it seems, multiple NATO nations to respond.

1:12:13Poland closing two airports, briefly launching jets in response to Russian activity, and Romania saying that a drone entered its eastern territory briefly and scrambling jets as well. At the same time, Russia claiming it shot down four Atakums missiles, longer-range missiles supplied by the United States that were fired by Ukraine towards Voronezh. So particularly hectic night in the skies and a particularly large and horrific death tolls. Our thanks to Nick Payton-Walsh for that report. Join us now is CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Great to see you, Colonel Leighton.

1:12:49So Axios is reporting that according to the Trump plan, the U.S. and other countries would recognize Crimea and the Donbass as lawfully Russian territory, but Ukraine would not be asked to. I mean, that would be a major concession. It really would be. And, you know, Pamela, when you look at the map, here's one of the key things right here. These territories right here that I've made with the red dots, those are parts of the Donbass region that Ukraine actually still controls, plus Zaporizhia right in this area. So this apparition piece, in fact, I'll change that to this color, because what this means is this part might actually be given to Ukraine.

1:13:29So and the Russians may be withdrawing a little bit in here. But in the Donetsk region and the Luhansk region, that's where Ukraine is supposed to give up all of its territory. Right now, Ukraine controls 12 percent of the Donbas region. That would mean 12 percent of that territory would become Russian, but in a demilitarized zone, according to this plan. And as this is all going on, what kind of message is Putin sending with that attack that Nick just talked about so close to NATO countries? Yeah, so this is, you know, when we look at this, this is in Ternopil, which is in the western part of Ukraine.

1:14:01And this is right near the Polish border, as you see right here. That is Poland and Slovakia and Hungary and Romania right here. So this is an area, this town has about 230 or so thousand people. It's about, I think, the fifth or sixth largest city in Ukraine. So this is a major effort by the Russians to really put everything at risk. Normally, they don't strike in the west. They do strike in the east. And they also struck Kharkiv, which is Ukraine's second largest city. So we're talking about one million or so people in that area. So this is a key message that Putin has sent. Basically, everything here is at risk.

1:14:39and I'm going to force Ukraine to do the kinds of things that I want it to do on the peace table. And Russia is also claiming that it took out four U.S. Atakums missiles. How hard is it to take out those missiles? So this is what it looks like, what an Atakums looks like when it is launched and goes into flight. So you can see it goes on a very high trajectory. That makes it very difficult for it to intercept. So when you look at that particular element, and these are the statistics used for the Atakums, It is generally difficult to get them both when they launch as well as when they descend because they come in at a very steep angle.

1:15:15But it's not impossible. And if the Russian report is true, they actually have the capability of knocking these out. If they hit four of them, that's pretty remarkable. They haven't been able to do that in that much of a concerted effort. But the Atakums is a very good weapon, but it is still not invulnerable to Russian air defenses. All right. Thank you so much, Colonel Layton. We appreciate it. And up next, a story bound to get your attention. It's about a new stage play making waves. And the subject is a hot topic that impacts every single person on planet Earth.

1:15:55breaking news in our law and justice lead the white house has issued a lid for today and that means we won't see the president for the rest of the day offering no indication of whether president donald trump signed the epstein files bill or whether he plans to sign it before the night's end the white house had previously said trump would sign the bill when it got to his desk And turning now to our Earth Matters series, the planet's hottest climate conference is happening right now. And while it may seem less than bingeable when things heat up, contentious negotiations create the perfect storm for a stage play.

1:16:29And as CNN's Bill Weir reports, you can now get a front row seat to all the drama. From afar, they seem so wonky, so dry, so unproductive. Sea level rise will threaten survival. But in the rooms where it happens, every cop holds enough drama for a thousand Shakespeare. The developing world will no longer be brushed aside. And while few will see the inner workings of COP30 underway in Brazil, you can now buy a ticket to COP3 in Kyoto. When small island nations stood up to super polluters and petro-states, Until nearly 200 nations unanimously agreed to fight climate change. And audiences, first in London, now in New York's Lincoln Center, have a seat at the table.

1:17:17Wrestle this process into an agreement for the sake of your children and mine. Next to Germany or Tanzania for an intimate look at the haggling over humanity's fate. The inspiration of Writing Kyoto was actually talking to the amazing men and women, diplomats, delegates, scientists, lawyers, legal minds, who toil every day and have done for decades at the heart of these big multilateral negotiations. Now, I know what people like you think of lawyers like me, but I'm the only one who can tell this story. In a play about agreement, our guide is a notorious merchant of disagreement named Don Perlman.

1:17:53Let me tell you an uncomfortable truth, people. This is oil. Yeah! This is oil. Yeah! This is oil. Yeah! Lobbyists now descend like locust on every cop. He was their founding father. It is the American sacrament. Who was Don Perlman? Oh, just a great guy. Don Perlman worked in the Department of Energy for the Reagan administration. He was an oil lobbyist, a real Washington oil lobbyist, who tried at every point during the negotiations in the 1990s to stall and obfuscate and delay the process. And he did so for reasons that he truly believed in. The Climate Council exists to do one thing. Prevent targets and timetables for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

1:18:48A big part of his way of working was to sort of work in the shadows. And a lot goes on in the shadows. And until you shine a light into the shadows, that's where the mold can grow. That was COP3. We're about to go into COP30. and I don't think it could be worse in terms of what has happened since then. How do you wrap your head around what has happened since the climate negotiations and what we're living through now? I think a lot of people look at the cops every year and there's a lot of sense of despair and an apocalypse. But before Kyoto, the world was on track to warm by four or five degrees, which would have been truly world-ending.

1:19:26Because of those negotiators working day and night and into the early hours, The Kyoto Protocol and the agreements that have happened since Paris and beyond mean that actually we're not looking at that at all. So while we're not in a good place, we're also in a much better place than we would have been. And I suppose we wanted to celebrate that and to tell, you know, if it's possible, a little more of a hopeful story about this subject. Bill Weir, CNN at New York's Lincoln Center. And our thanks to Bill Weir there. Our last leads start with First Lady Melania Trump paying a pre-Thanksgiving visit to school children in North Carolina.

1:20:04She and Second Lady Usha Vance also met with U.S. military families at Camp Lejeune and at the Marine Corps Air Station New River to show appreciation for those who served during the holiday season. The North Carolina trip was their first public joint appearance without their husbands. Also in our national lead, gray is for funerals. That's what President Trump has said about the historic Eisenhower Executive Office building that he was planning to repaint white. Today, the Trump administration agreed not to take any step forward after a preservationist group filed a lawsuit asking for a formal process for any renovations until the end of the year.

1:20:42The Eisenhower building is right next door to the White House, constructed in 1888. It was originally built to hold the state, war, and Navy departments, and it now serves as extra space for the president's staff. Well, you can find me on Instagram at PamelaBrownCNN. Follow the show on Instagram and at an X at The Lead CNN. And if you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can watch the show on the CNN app. Erin Burnett out front starts now. We'll see you next time.