634: Tom Nolan (CEO of Kendra Scott) - 2% Moments, Setting Big Goals, Being Unbalanced, Moving Fast, Coaching High Performers, & Going Through Hard Things Together

24:20So I got out of school and I had nothing but a piece of paper that said, you know, I graduated from college. And it turns out as, you know, you may have learned, Like that's hard to find a job when you just have that. And when you've got, you know, you're competing against the whole world of people that were like really diligent about this. So I kind of stumbled into an interview with a publishing firm called Ziff Davis. And I interviewed with a guy named Jason Sparks. It was the interview for a job. I think it was paying like$12 ,000 a year to sell classified ads. And the back is PC Magazine, which I knew nothing about.

24:49Never read PC Magazine. Didn't know any first thing about selling ads and anything. But I interviewed with this guy and he sits down with me. And again, this is for like a nothing, nothing entry level job. And he says, tell me what your goals are. Where are you going to life? What do you want to achieve? And I had like no answer for it. Like no one ever asked me that question outside of a sports field. And I gave him some kind of nonsensical 22 year old kid answer. And he threw me out of his office. And this is after like 15 different, 20 different interviews. And I got none of them, zero. I was pulling up goose eggs.

25:19I interviewed it was so bad that I interviewed for a job going door to door selling Bibles. And I don't know what skill set that requires, but I didn't have it. So I didn't get that job. So anyway, I'm walking down the hallway. It's if Davis 28th and Park was their office in New York City. And I get halfway down the hallway and I'm like, I can't go home. I was living, still living with my parents. I had no money. If I was like, if I go home, my dad's just going to make me go work for him or John Sparagano or one of his construction buddies, and that's not what I wanted. So I went back to Jason's office, and I said, hey, if I go home tonight and think about my goals, can I come back?

25:58Can we restart this thing first thing tomorrow? And he was like, yeah, whatever. And I'm certain he thought he'd never see me again. So I went home. I stayed up. Literally, I didn't sleep. I stayed up all night, and I wrote my goals, my 10-year goals down. I was 22. I wrote 10 years when I was 32, 10 years of my goals down. And I was maniacal about it. Like the money I wanted to make, the car I wanted to drive, the jobs I wanted to have. I mean, it was like it was pages of goals. So go back, get the job. And then fast forward somewhere around 10 years later, did really well at Zip Davis, wound up going to Condé Nast, became a magazine publisher at Golf World Magazine, which is my favorite magazine when I was 26 years old, which is crazy.

26:39And my wife and I are moving from one house to another. And I found the goal sheet. I used to keep it up in my cubicle there. And it was like, I was nuts about every decision I would make would have to map back to those goals. And it was just output. I learned really early on. It was like, if I had to make phone calls, everybody else is going to make 25 phone calls. I'd make 125 phone calls. Like everything to me was output. Output put me in better opportunities, better opportunities, got me access to different people. That gave me those 2 % moments that I talked about. And then I made the most of them.

27:09And then I became, I kept being more successful. so i found that that goal those goal sheets and i did every one of them like it was nuts every one of them in 10 years i accomplished everything on my list in my first feeling i was pissed because like man i should have made these things better and what were some of them like the money i wanted to make the title i wanted to have how much money was it uh at the well one of them at the time was to make a hundred thousand dollars a year for sure yeah i would have that would have been mine at 22 for sure and it was like six big i couldn't imagine my dad made you know, 35 ,000 in his best year.

27:43So like the fact that I can make a hundred grand be like mind blowing to me. I had, for some reason, Lexus had just come out at the time. I wanted a Lexus IS 300, got that car. Like it was just stuff like that. Buy a house. That was another one. I bought a house when I was 25 years old. And it was just like these things that happen. I was very fortunate. So especially coming from where I came from, I didn't expect a lot. Right. So I like, I've always had an appreciation for things because I had nothing my whole life. So, and everything I achieved, I earned, right? Like nothing's ever been given to me.

28:15So I had this whole mentality. Anyway, sorry, long way that answered your question. Then went from Conde Nast to Ralph Lauren, worked at Ralph for a number of years. And I love that I got to learn, spent a lot of time with Ralph himself. I learned the business from Roger Farah, who is amazing. I think the best operator I've ever worked with. And then, you know, having worked for both Ziff Davis, Bill Ziff, and then Ralph, and then Cy Newhouse at Conde Nast, these were all founders. I saw how they started from nothing, created something really special. I wanted to do my own thing. I left Ralph Lauren to start a holding company called Prospect Brands because I grew up on Prospect Place on the island.

28:48And one of our things, we bought basically distressed assets. And while I was doing that, I moved my family from Ridgewood, New Jersey to Greensboro, North Carolina. I went to business school at Chapel Hill after that. And then while I was there, I got a random phone call from a guy named Rob Arditti who worked at Norwest Venture Partners saying they just made an investment in a jewelry company in Austin, Texas called Kendra Scott if I would be interested in joining their board because I had one outside independent board seat to name. No idea how he found my name. I'd never served on a board before.

29:20I had no experience in women's jewelry or accessories of any capacity. And that was that 2 % moment. I think normally you'd be like, I have no passion for this. I have no expertise in this. I'm no way I'm going to add value in this. category pass. But I was like, you know, it sounds interesting to me. I don't know anything about this. I've never been to Austin, Texas. I did a little bit of diligence on the business. It was a tiny little business doing about$40 million in sales at the time, but flew out there. I had a sister who passed away, who had a brain aneurysm, which was tragic and sudden.

29:51My only sibling, Kendra and I kind of hit it off. And she kind of has filled that void for me, if you will, for the last decade or so. And that's how we wound up here. And I think the lesson I've learned through that, Ryan, is not just to be determined about following your goals and making the right decisions. And one of the things on my next goals was join boards. So that was how it led to that. But the other part is I love learning and I like doing things I don't know anything about because I always hated when I was working in companies two things. One, when people would walk in a room and just act like know-it-alls.

30:28right like I hated it I just I didn't like anything about it I just I didn't like it and then the second was I didn't like not having a voice when I was younger in my career and I always had something to say so the idea that I could go do something that I knew nothing about I thought was great because I wasn't going to be a know-it-all I would be forced to ask a lot of questions I wasn't passionate about it which was great because it changed my it made me more objective than subjective you know at Ralph or even a kind of nasty golf world like I was I was a customer you know like I would I would look at something very subjective like I don't I don't do I like the shirt do I not like the shirt I like the buttons I like the way it fits I didn't like that article because it didn't talk to the things I cared about like this was totally different and it was a major unlock for me and I think there's a ton of value in going to do something that you don't know anything about it just it naturally humbles you and I think in itself by doing that It adds a lot of value.

31:25You mentioned that you're more of a learn-it-all than a know-it-all. Very curious. You get excited about the fact that you don't know about it, which is the opposite of most humans, right? Most people want to stay inside those very comfortable walls of their comfort zone. They're not going to bang on those edges, and it feels like you're living outside of those edges. So that's something you're obviously really good at. That's a skill you've developed. What are some of the other things that you're really good at? because you said Kendra's really good at some things or the best at them and I'm really good or the best at some things.

31:55So what are some of the other things that like you're really good at? And in addition to being a learn it all, instead of a know it all, this serves me well and not well sometimes, but I do think it's a skill that I do have. My best friend in the world says what I have is immediate urgency, which makes no sense. Like if you're urgent, it doesn't need to be immediate, but it's like if you double it, does that the opposite? No. Okay. So I just, I have the highest degree of urgency in every single thing in my life that I do, but I think it shows up really well in the work environment. And I think the things that go along with that is I'm a good problem solver.

32:29I'll figure out a way to get it done because I'm not afraid to turn over stones or try something different or throw an idea at the wall that sounds completely ridiculous. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. And I just think those things, and it goes back to our culture here, and Kendra and I are similar in this regard, that, you know, and you've probably been on teams like this or worked in companies like this, I know I have, that need to win in a corporate culture doesn't always show up the right way. I mean, sometimes it creates toxic environments, it creates bad behavior. We have balanced it here with as bad of a need we all have to win.

33:10And it's not, again, there's a difference between need to win and want to win. Like some people need to win if you know what I'm talking about. And other people just like, oh, it's nice to win. We balance out that need to win with compassion and kindness and warmth and humility. And I think that's what makes us great. And I do think, you know, for me, I consider that a skill set that I've learned. I wasn't always like that. I used to be the need to win at all costs, like whatever it takes kind of person. And I've rounded it out here. And I think it's a testament to the amazing female and male leaders that I work with now, that warmth and compassion.

33:43It's not just about like, this is what we're going to do. It's this is what we're going to do. Here's why we're going to do it. Here's how it's maybe, well, tell me how it makes you feel. Like, how does that make you feel? And if you don't understand it, I'm going to be patient enough, even though I have urgency, to answer your questions in a thoughtful and honest way. So I think that's a skill set, I guess. I think Kendra has it too, but I think, you know, from a day-to-day operating perspective, which is a seat I sit in, keeping that going constantly is really important. And then I think finally, I'm a lot better, generally speaking, when things are hard than when they're easy.

34:21I just like it better. The last couple of years, we've been winning by growing 30%, 30%, 30 % off a really big pace. I love winning, so that's fun. But it's kind of more fun when things are challenging because you have to really be thoughtful about it. And I think if you execute properly, it separates the good from the great. Yeah. And it's at halftime of a game when you're up by 40, it's like everybody's a leader. It's pretty easy. You just eat the oranges and go out and finish the game. But when it's tough is when you are actually needed. As my dad has always told me, this is why you exist. This, these moments, right?

34:54Like you're, you feel like you might be in one of them now, Tom, one of the commonalities I found among leaders who sustain excellence over an extended period of time over the past decade of interviewing 630 plus of these people is the first thing you said. And I would maybe, to even narrow it down even more, speed slash bias for action. They're literally like fast walkers. Like legitimately when they walk, they walk fast. Now, I try to surround myself with those types of people. Like the coaches on my team are fast. I mean, they move. They just don't waste time. They don't mess around like we are going.

35:34And that's why I like being around them. That's why I think we do a good job for the clients we work with. But sometimes when they're around people who aren't like that, it's a little clunky. Like it can be a problem. How is it for you, a guy who has a bias for action, a guy who has this immediate urgency when you are, because not everybody's like that. There's still good people at your company that are not like that. How do you manage it? How do you handle it when you're this bias for action guy, but you're with others who are not? it's challenging. There are, there's certainly lots of people that aren't that way in my life and it's challenging to navigate.

36:09But I think like, again, if you can explain to people why you are the way that you are and what you're trying to accomplish, you get more people on the bus that way versus just like steamrolling, running fast over people. Sometimes you have to run fast through people. And look, I also get Ryan, there is a tremendous amount of value in patience and thoughtfulness, right? I'm not, not that I'm, well, I'm not patient, especially if you ask my mom or my family, my mom or my wife or my parents or my family, they would tell you the same thing. I'm not a patient person, but I am a thoughtful person, but I just, I want to go.

36:44Like, and action is really important to me. And I'd rather, again, an adage, fail fast. Like, yes, all those things in spades. There's great value in having a counterpoint to that, right? Because sometimes when you're going really fast, you make mistakes and having people that can catch some of those mistakes before you make them is really important. My CFO, Jason, who's amazing and kind of my right hand, is much more methodical than I am. And there's so much value in that counterpoint. And as you learn somebody too, like I know what he's going to say, he knows what I'm going to say. And I feel like there's just great value there.

37:18And he's like, look, I know you're going to want to move here, but just hear me out. Here's a watch out. And I think, you know, then I have the opportunity to weigh the counterpoint and make a decision and either go a little slower or run faster. So you mentioned having a great CFO who was like your right hand, Jason. I'm also, as I mentioned at the beginning of this, fascinated by the hiring process and the choice, the choices you make of who's going to, again, surround you. So what are some of the must-have attributes or qualities in a person for you to choose them to be a leader on your team?

37:55I mean, first and foremost, I think you have to be a good human being. If I want to surround myself with good people, like first and foremost, there is anyone that's not ever been successful here has never not been successful because of aptitude. It's always been because of culture fit and attitude. So I think our culture is very specific. I mentioned earlier, we have this insatiable need to win. We balance it out with an incredible amount of kindness and compassion. And I'm not in full disclosure, I'm a terrible interviewer. Like I'm really bad. Oh yeah. I have hired. I just, because I fall in love easy, I think maybe.

38:34And I've made some bad hiring choices over the years because, uh, I, I believed what somebody said. And then when it came time for the rubber to meet the road and actions to happen, those two things juxtaposed each other. Huh. If I may, like, I think that's fascinating. One, high level awareness and humility for you just to say that, because I don't think a lot of CEOs would say that. So how do you manage through that? Because you are making really important, probably 2 % moment decisions all the time, especially when it comes to hiring. How do you manage making good hires for leadership roles?

39:11I think, well, we have a great team, right? So Danielle, who runs her, is our chief people officer. She's another great counterpoint. Our interviewing process here is very, it's become very rigorous. Like you learn from your failures, right? I've made some bad hiring decisions over the course of my career. Now, when we hire people, it's not just our chief people officer, myself, and maybe another person interviewing. Like the people that this person is going to be working for will interview them. And the people that will be working for them also are part of the interviewing process. so it is it is a very laborious process now because i've learned the hard way of you know making on the fly decisions of like this person's great as i just trust me i know i feel like they're great like experience looks great they worked at these great companies like that's not what it takes because everybody's great on paper i think the attitude and the aptitude of like wanting to be a part of this wanting to move fast wanting to be kind for other people, wanting to show up to our philanthropic events, like wanting to lead with humility.

40:09It's very easy to say these things. It's very hard to do them because it takes dedication and time and commitment. I love interviewing and hiring athletes. I think there's like just something about people that, you know, have done something competitively. There's just a spirit in you and your engine just runs a little differently than those that haven't in certain environments, right? In, you know, in a sales environment, in a marketing environment, in those capacities, I feel like it pays a very high dividend to have those kind of experiences, but not necessarily everywhere. But generally speaking, that's kind of what I look for.

40:44And we have great sounding boards here that can kind of round out whatever feelings I have. I think if you're building or you're a part of a high-performance culture, which you have there, being coachable and actually wanting to be coached are really good attributes in a person. for just about any role, right? I mean, I grew up in a sales rep, manager, director, VP. That was my track before leaving to do this stuff. And, man, we were coached tough. Like, we were coached really hard, and that made us so much better. But I can tell you, it definitely wasn't for everyone, man. It definitely – like, some people just don't handle it.

41:23I'm with you. Like, I – whether it's military background, sports, again, like, I try not to be biased, but, man, it's tough at times because I know if they spent time serving our country or they spent time winning and losing and off-season workouts, puking in trash cans from running so much. Like it is hard. It's hard to, to find that in other, other avenues, man. Those people have seen for me, at least have worked out really well. Average players want to be left alone. Good players want to be coached. Great players want to be told the truth. Like, yes. And there's a, there's a chapter in the book of the way the shepherd that's called, you You want to find people that have a learner's heart.

42:04And it's all the same things that you're saying. It's like, again, average people want to be left alone. They think they have the answers to everything. Good people want some level of coaching. Great people want to be told the truth, whatever it's going to take to get better. So I think that, you know, to me, like that's one thing. And then the idea of having a learner's heart, which you mentioned earlier is another thing. I mean, to me, it all goes back to being coachable, right? And, you know, I see it, you can see it in kids. Now, I'd like to think my four amazing children who have, I believe, all exemplify those kind of things.

42:40But you can see the kids even at a young age that don't. And, you know, they're probably not going to be on the best path. This may be a weird question for the CEO of Kendra Scott, but Tom, how passionate are you about jewelry? I mean, I wear a lot of it now, more than I have it there. uh i listen i grew up on long island so i used to i used to used to wear a little bit of bling when i was in high school in fact i just gave my i used it's funny how you're you change as you get older but i my little eight-year-old is playing baseball right now he's the only only kid in our family that does it and he loves it and all the kids now wear like tons of jewelry and you see it like with major league baseball players so i found i found my old man i used to wear a mets necklace, which is nuts to think about.

43:24I like it. I ever had a girlfriend, but I, I, uh, anyway. Yeah. So I, I, I traditionally have not been passionate about jewelry. I am crazy passionate about our customer and about our business. And I've learned so much about it through the eyes of my wife, through the eyes of my daughters, you know, obviously through the eyes of our employees, Kendra, I'm not, I'm really passionate about our business. I'm passionate about how happy our product makes our customers. And the little nuances that I learned from, you know, my, my wife will see something or my daughters will see something what they like, what they don't like, what their friends are wearing.

44:05Like they're the best sounding boards that I have, you know, obviously our employees are amazing, but I mean, my 16 year old daughter, like she's doing things on social media and seeing things that like, I would never as a 47 year old guy would never understand that. Right. So she's really helping shape my perspective on things. So I'm very passionate about our customer, really passionate about our business, about our employees. I don't wear women's jewelry, so it's hard for me to be the customer perspective, but I get to see it through others' lenses, which I think is good. And we have a men's line called Scott Brothers, which was modeled after Kendra's sons who were to varying degrees involved in the business.

44:44But it's a nice little business, never going to be the cornerstone of what we do. but I think it's important because almost around the holidays, upwards of 40 % of our customers are male. And the best thing about Kendra Scott, and this is one of the reasons why she started the company 23 years ago, was years ago when you'd walk into a jewelry store, when she first opened the business, like it was very intimidating. You know, you'd want, and especially for somebody like me, I don't know how you grew up, but didn't have any money. I wanted to buy my, you know, my girlfriend something. And like you walk in and everything's under case.

45:14People are wearing white gloves. You're judged. like it was just awful so at Kendra Scott you walk into one of our stores everything's top of counter you walk in we'll offer you a water or a beer or a glass of champagne we encourage people to be friendly and warm and it's just it's a much better environment from that perspective and then from a value proposition perspective like the average guy could walk into one of our stores buy you know every woman in his life something or anybody that wears our jewelry something and walk out and not going to break the bank and get a really high quality item.

45:49And the fact that our business is rooted in philanthropy and the large majority of what we do from a give back perspective goes to help and change people's lives. I mean, it's awesome. But anyway, sorry, long way to answer your question. Not super passionate about women's jewelry perspective, but I'm very passionate about what we're doing and how we're changing lives and the impact we make through women's jewelry in our customers' lives. I am curious about your daughters as well as maybe your wife or other women in your life. How influential are they in product design? Or how often does their feedback pop up in a meeting with your exec team or with the products?

46:23Or however it works to come up with something new. I am fascinated by the behind the scenes there. Yeah, I'd say that they're influential for sure. I mean, at the end of the day, one of our mantras here and operating principles is the customer is our boss. Like at the end of the day, she and he sign our paycheck. So whether that customer is my mom, my wife, my daughters, Kendra's mom, Kendra's friends, my aunt who lives in Boca, they're all the customer, right? So I think I'm lucky that my wife does have close relationships with a lot of the employees here. She talks to Colleen, who runs our retail business constantly, and Aaron, who runs our merchandising business very often.

47:02So she's giving her point of view. But also, I don't want to be, and I never want to be somebody that's like jamming anything down somebody's throat and being like, oh, my wife said this or my daughter said this. I want to temper it because I do understand that there's some level of unfairness that goes along with that because my family said something. So I try to mitigate it as best as possible, but they have great perspectives on things. But so does every customer. We listen a lot to our customers and then we launch new categories, whether it's fragrance or eyewear or Scott Brothers or, you know, yellow rose or collaborations with Wrangler.

47:37Like we ask the customer what they want from us. And, you know, I think the old days of, you know, what Steve Jobs said, you tell the customer what they're going to want. Those days probably don't exist much anymore where a customer has a much larger voice than they used to years ago, and they want to be a part of companies that have purpose. They want to understand what goes behind things before they buy it. And I feel like we're at the center of that for a lot of reasons. So yeah, my family offers their point of view, but in a very respectful way. You mentioned the past few years, it's just been killing, just absolutely crushing.

48:12and now maybe, I don't know, we'll see, maybe it's going to be a little tougher. I'm curious about looking at the current state of the business and you, part of your job as a CEO is to be the visionary, to look forward, to try to see around corners, right? All really hard things to do. What does it look like currently and what does it look like moving forward? Your vision, right? You're a goal setter. You like to go after it and get it and win. What's it looking like moving forward for you guys? Yes. I mean, look, looking ahead is no different than how we look behind it. We're focused on maintaining a culture that's filled with continuous learning, right?

48:48Within our organization, we want to speak to each other. We want to hear from our customers. I don't have all the answers, clearly. So I think we want to create and we've created, I hope, an environment here where answers are coming from all throughout the organization. I do think it's my job and obligation to bring a level of comfort and calmness when the seas are choppy. I use the analogy sometimes amongst our leadership group of, you know, if my eight-year-old came in my room during a thunder and lightning storm, my wife and I were like cowering in the corner, like crying, he'd freak out. Right.

49:22And we're in a thunderstorm right now to some degree. And, but you know, when, when he comes in the room at night, when there's a thunderstorm, like there's a reassurance of like, we're going to be okay. The house isn't going to get struck by lightning. We're going to be okay. We got this. Don't worry about it. I think right now, similarly through COVID, I want to make sure that I'm over communicating with the organization, letting people know, like, look, there, there's a lot of potential headwinds out there. We've seen these things before. We have a handle on it to the best that we can. And we're going to be able to just control the things that we can control.

49:53I can't control what happens in Washington, D.C. I can't control what happens in other countries. I can control this. And if everybody's doing that, focusing on the things that we can control and creating a great environment for one another here to be seen and heard and creating a great environment in our retail stores with our customers, we're probably going to be more successful. I do think when there's disruption, it creates massive amounts of opportunity for those that are courageous enough to try. and we will do that and we will create opportunity and we will continue to be successful. I wish it was a little bit easier as much as we talked earlier about like, you know, it's hard to just, you know, eat the oranges and go out there and play the game when you're up by 42.

50:36It'd be nice to navigate, lead a company through a little bit easier waters. I mean, it's been nothing but turbulence since I've taken over here and I'm very proud of the team and the results we've had in spite of that turbulence. We've been an outlier of outliers in the consumer business. And I think we'll get through this better than most and continue to lead with heart and compassion and create connections with our customers and try to do it the right way. You're not going to know what to do when the seas are calm, dude. I feel like you're not. What are you going to do? It's not going to be as interesting, will it?

51:08What I'll do is I'll go. I'll go. I'll retire and go teach and coach. Like, that's my passion. That'll be what I do. Love it. One more question, Tom. I'm curious. So I was thinking of the story you told about yourself, you know, when you finished up playing baseball. And I was the same way. I didn't even know what an internship was, honestly. I just was working out and going to summer school and getting ready for the next football season. And so let's say you're talking to that person who is now a recent college graduate, and they want to leave a dent in the world in a positive way. They're good human.

51:38They want to do good things in the world, but they're kind of lost. They don't really know what to do or where they're headed. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice you'd give to that person? Yeah. So I do, I mentioned kind of in jest, but I'm serious. I do love teaching and coaching. I do a lot of it. I spend a lot of time with kids in college right now because I feel like there's opportunities there for people to talk their language because I wish it would have made my life a little bit easier. I'm proud of the things I've done, but it would have been nicer to have a little bit of a, you know, a Sherpa along the way, if you will.

52:10So a couple of things I tell people is like, wake up early. Like, you know, and I wake up, you know, 4.30, 5 o 'clock. It's kind of an average day for me, whether I go to bed at 3.30 or, you know, 9 p.m. I think when you get a head start on the day and you start, you start, I tell my kids and I have a joke, like my daughter Grace will call me and be like, you know, what are you doing today? I'm like, I'm beating Monday. You know, I got a head start on Monday. So I feel like that, that maniacal kind of way of thinking is really important. And most people don't do that. And I think it's really hard for young people, Ryan, to be courageous.

52:44You know, people will ask me, like, do I have imposter syndrome? Like, yeah, 100%. Like, I come on your podcast. I'm like, why does anybody want to hear from me? Every time I do a public speaking thing, anytime I'm talking to students, like, I always will feel that way. And it's okay, you know? And I think that that's normal. And I think young people should feel empowered and courageous because their voices matter. I would argue more than mine does because they're the future and I'm the current and the past. So I really rely on what that constituency of people are thinking and saying and how they're seeing the world because that's where this business needs to go.

53:20We're not thinking, I don't think in year increments from a business perspective, we're thinking decades out. Where do we want to be 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now? Like, how do we want to set up our business today to be successful, you know, when I'm not even here anymore? And that's a founder mentality. And I understand that because that's all I've ever done. But like, that's how kids should feel empowered by that, not scared. And I remember how I felt. I was scared, you know, to death. And I mitigated that by my athlete mentality, which was hungry. And I think like for those that don't play sports, like you can still think that way.

53:57But I think young people should be courageous, unafraid to fail. And you've got the reality is you've got really 10 years from the time you if you go to college, you graduate college till time you're out 30 to just F up the whole time. You just do nothing but make mistakes as long as you're learning along the way. And then I think as you get into your late 20s, early 30s, that's when you got to start making some hay. So give yourself a break. Right. And like, just try action, action, try things, say things, speak up. I think that makes a big, big difference. And it separates you. Too many other people are bashful and wallflowers at that age.

54:33And the ones that stand out really stand out. Love it. Tom, thank you so much, man. I'm a big fan of Kendra Scott, your company, and now you. I appreciate you sharing so much. And I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress, man. Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me, Ryan. I appreciate it.

54:53It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club. If you are, send me a note. Ryan at learningleader.com. Let me know what you learned in this great conversation with Kendra Scott CEO, Tom Nolan. A few takeaways from my notes. Average players want to be left alone. Good players want some coaching. Great players want the truth. Think about that when you're hiring, when you're coaching, when you're developing and building your team and your culture. Then I really appreciated Tom's honesty when it came to work-life balance. He said it is not the company's job to give work-life balance to someone.

55:30And he is not balanced. He's on 24-7. His family realizes this and they know it and they support him. It was refreshing to hear the real, raw, honest truth about this from someone who was running a company. And as Dr. Julie Gerner told me on episode 538, quote, people will tell you in books that you have to live a balanced life. But if we are completely honest, almost all great things are born from periods of imbalance. And then make the most of your 2 % moments. 98 % of the time, life is just happening. But every once in a while, you'll have those 2 % opportunities, like when he met his wife or interviewed with Kendra Scott.

56:14It's on us as leaders to be ready to make the most of those 2 % moments. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Tom Lillen. I think he'll help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that, and you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and you subscribe to the show, and you write a thought for you, and you rate it hopefully five stars. And by doing all of that, you give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful.

56:52Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can't wait.