637: Tom Ryan (Ohio State Wrestling Coach) - Chosen Suffering, Emotional Control, Responding to Tragedy, Success Pillars, and Learning from Dan Gable

27:44It was air conditioning. We had window fans. And people are like, what's a window fan? I'm like, you know what a window fan is? It's a fan in the window. That's it. It blows whatever temperature is outside inside. That's what you get. You know, so we were just living a family life of just celebrating. You know, I know you're going through with your five girls and you're going to events and meets and things. It's just so much fun. So we're just in the midst of this amazing time. So to have this happen out of nowhere, it was an explosion in the house. He died of a massive heart attack. At five years old, kids don't die of heart attacks.

28:22He had a genetic disorder, we found out, that was passed on a gene passed from me to him that children need this gene until they're about 10, they said. And then at 10, another gene steps in. And it's for successful heart function. He didn't have that gene. So when he was startled, his heart reacted in a way that it shouldn't react. So my wife kind of startled him. He was coming around the corner. She was hiding. She startled him. I watched it. She picked him up. And it was just a typical, like a boo. Yeah. You know, you don't expect me to be there. And there you are. Yeah. So she picked him up.

29:01And I know, without question, when she picked him up, I'm watching. His head's hanging. We had two Yorkies. They were jumping up at him. And I remember thinking, his head looks funny to me. Like, what? You know, but, you know, mothers are born to hold babies, right? Mothers are born to a lot of other things, too. but their baby holding masters absolutely so so i didn't say anything she gets to the back of the house and she starts screaming so i run to the back of the house i grab teague i put him on the coffee table he has no pulse his eyes are old back in his head and she calls 9-1-1 in for about 12 minutes you know i'm pumping on his chest i'm breathing in his mouth i'm doing i'm doing cpr and i couldn't save him at one point i heard i thought the ambulance was coming so i picked him up i ran him out of the house ran him up the street to the corner to get him in the ambulance faster.

29:50It wasn't an ambulance. It was a cop on a call for another reason. I run them back to the house, keep doing it. They finally come in. The EMTs finally come in. They run some tests on them, throw them in the ambulance. My wife and I filed the ambulance to the hospital. And, you know, something we had never done before in our, at the time, 11 years of marriage, 12 years of marriage was pray together. You know, we held hands. I did two things. I called my older brother that's now the attorney and said listen something happened we're on the way to the hospital he's in the in the in the in the ambulance here's where we're going let the family know and my wife and i started to pray together um he's in surgery for about an hour and a half my whole family's gathered now we're waiting in the we're waiting in the in the lobby and that i remember the surgeon coming out remember i'm not looking up i remember i'm looking down i'm like oh man why is he looking down

30:57Oh, sorry.

31:22sorry damn you don't have to be sorry man you know anybody watching i know that anyone that's been through anything traumatic just the um the memory of it can take you back there instantly right so i'm instantly brought back to that moment so um you know he just said we're sorry you know, we're sorry. We couldn't save them. And so, you know, grief isn't something that I ever experienced, you know, so, and the disbelief and the pain. So we get in the car, my wife and I were driving back, it was about 14 miles, 14 minutes back to our house. My children were waiting at the house, my 11, eight-year-old and three-old.

32:09So we pull in the driveway and I remember as we pulled in, my kids came running out of the driveway, running out of the front door and down to the car. And my eight-year-old son, Jake, asked, you know, as many people as you've interviewed and as many amazing people I've met in my life, a lot of them just say, what's the key to this long-term success? We know there's a lot of pieces to it, but one of them is common sense. I just using common sense. And my eight-year-old son asked a common sense question, which was, where is Teague? Now, I was 36 at the time. My wife was 35. If he would have asked me the name of every supporter, if he would have asked me the tendencies, every guy on my team, technical tendencies, why I bought the truck I'm in, why we moved to the house we moved to, why I left Syracuse and went to Iowa, I could have answered.

33:04But he asked me a question I I didn't know. I was 36, leading a family of four. I didn't know where he was. So in that moment, my life's mission went to, where is he? What are the possibilities? And I dove into that. So there was a lot of grief. There was a lot of fighting. I'd like to say that our marriage was this perfect, this perfect in unison couple grieving together. It wasn't that. It was rough and it was ugly at times. And the three surviving, you know, a lot of times, all the interviews you've done, a lot of times the three surviving children struggle. They struggle for extended periods of time because they're forgotten to some degree.

33:50Because people aren't strong enough to get over their grief. And I think we made the decision early on that wasn't going to be us, but there was a lot of struggle in the house. We got help and we fought. We fought to stay together. right we fought to raise a family we we fought for it and my faith journey began and i basically took a piece of paper and and the thinking was simply where could he be well there's two places either it's over and you live and die and that you're you're you're created by by chance to some degree it's just a random a random something happened and we're here or there's a God that loves us.

34:30And I, I dove deeply into both. So all of my free time was, was, was focused on where's Teague. And, and I studied it intensely and I got an answer and I decided, you know, I think a lot of times we get answers and we don't decide, you know, you have to make the decision. And the decision was God is real and I'm going to follow him. And that's where Teague is. And I say this to a lot of people have said to me, well, it was probably because, you know, not whether, and listen, whether I was agnostic, I wasn't, I wasn't even agnostic. I think I believed, I just wouldn't bet my life on it. I was raised Catholic.

35:07I went to church every week. I knew there was something, but I never put enough focus into it to say, I would die for this. I believe this so strongly, I would die for it. And now, you know, I'm in that place where I actually absolutely would. I believe that it's truth. So I chased truth. I didn't chase God. I chased truth and I found. And I'm happy to say now that the place I'm in right now, so we're 21 years removed from that day, that February 16th day. It was 21 years that February 16th, 2025. We lost Teague in 04. I know where my life is now. And I can only say where it is based on what I chose.

35:50Now, if I would have chose no God, I would like to say I'd be in the same place, but I don't know that. I only know what I know. And the truth is I'm where I'm at. My kids are where they're at. My wife is in the place she's at. Our marriage is in the place because I chose to follow God. I believe that emphatically. The word choosing and chosen has come up. By the thank you for sharing that. I really, really appreciate that. Chosen suffering is like your ethos is a, is you, it's the title of your book. It's a big thing. Can you go deeper on that ethos of yours of what chosen suffering is all about?

36:28Yeah. So it's interesting. I'm sure when you started playing football and quarterback and your family to the sports for me, when I got into wrestling, it wasn't chosen suffering. Like I was a seventh grader, but I don't know. Wrestling kind It's a chosen suffering thing. It is. It is for sure. But, you know, cross country, you know, we've talked about, you and I talked about Prefontaine and all of his great quotes and, and just being able to, being able to, to, to do things that are unbelievably hard, right? Yep. Now chosen suffering. So I came up with the term chosen suffering. Not when I was in seventh grade, you know, when I got involved in wrestling, not when I was at this intensive camp, not when you're in the middle of a 10 mile run, but I came up with the thought of chosen suffering after the loss of Teague, which was unchosen suffering.

37:21So I didn't label, I didn't label all this work to be the best at what you do as chosen suffering until I experienced unchosen suffering, which are all the things in life that bring you to your knees. Wrestling has never brought me to my knees. Now, look, I was crying for 15 minutes. I've cried a lot. I've gotten beaten to my knees. But it never took me to a place of begging for mercy. I never got there in wrestling. I wanted to be really good at it. I wanted to be elite at it. But at no time did it make me think at a much, much deeper level about life. And when I lost Teague in 2004, that I refer to as unchosen suffering, right?

38:09All these things, again, that happened that you didn't ask for. I didn't want that. And there's a lot of things that happen every day in our lives and everyone, our friends' lives, right? There's a little boy right now named Oscar. You might have seen the story in the news. His grandfather and I are friends. Oscar was attacked by pit bulls on his front lawn. He's nine years old. He got mauled by pitfalls. That is not something that you would ever ask. That's unchosen suffering, but the world's full of it. So when I was dropped to my knees by the loss of Teague, that was unchosen. And it made me think about all the things that I chose that were really hard, but didn't really, they transformed me to some degree, but not my faith.

38:57And my book was kind It's kind of a faith journey. It's a lot about leadership and learning, but it's also a lot about coming to your belief system as you walk along Earth, which is, to me, the number one decision we all make. More than anything, I would have said, it's who you're going to marry, who you're going to spend the rest of your life with, what's your profession going to be, what sport you're going to choose. There's so many big decisions we make and little ones. But the number one decision we make is to decide your belief system. Is there a God or not a God? So it was, yeah, a lot of struggle.

39:37So unchosen suffering gave me the, you know, is unchosen and chosen. And there's no question that people that climb really high throw themselves into the fire. You know, I think you just do it. You have a belief. It feels like, too, I'd be curious because like, you know, again, I've had the bonus now to get to sit here and watch some of the best wrestlers wrestlers in the world work out you know um with you you know kind of commentating it's the coolest thing ever i'm curious like what what do those guys that we just watched like what do they have they all seem to have in common that the ones who aren't quite as great yeah almost the difference between good and great they aren't quite as great like what do they have that the others don't yeah so i would say i think I think in all studies, in all studies ever performed on elite behavior, whether it's Zweck, was it?

40:30Zweck and Galston. He studied it in 1869, I believe, and Zweck in 1918. uh no in 2018 so in in 1869 it was studied galton in in in 2017 i think she wrote her book and there was commonalities in it and one is an ungodly effort effort so in both studies effort was incredibly important and i think effort stems from i think i think effort over time is a byproduct of deep love. Yes. And chosen suffering is about deep love, right? We call it chosen suffering. It's a fancy word for love because you will suffer the most for the things you love the most, right? If one of your girls has an issue, you are standing in front of her in an instant to help her and protect her.

41:21So you would die for any one of them, right? That's chosen suffering. So yeah, I lost my train of thought a little bit. uh well no we're talking about like some of the or what they have their traits yeah the commonalities between the the elite of the elite yeah versus the ones who are just good so deep love effort effort you know efforts given to the things you love the most a skill a high a high capacity to learn and skill i think something you know another thing is just um effort and skill are the two yeah are the are the two biggest effort and skill but then you have this capacity to live in truth, to really be honest with yourself and be okay with it.

42:02It's really strong self-assessment and then the capacity, the discipline to do it daily all the time to work on your shortcomings and really be good enough to look in the mirror and say, I love you, but you got some problems. Yeah. The best of the best also I found, whether even in business, I ran sales teams in corporate America. The good ones, like let's say the good reps I had, they were like, hey, can you just let me do my thing? Leave me alone. The great ones, give it to me. I need, give me the, I need some feedback. I want feedback every day, all the time, every call. And it feels like, I mean, it's happening right now as we speak, like the great ones want feedback.

42:43The coachability is just a big deal. Yeah. Being coachable and wanting, you know, it's funny. Most people want to be coached until they're getting coached. They're like, ah, coach, chill out. Easy, easy. But I think it's also an art. I think there's an art in when to coach. And it's like, don't beat them too much when they're down. We were saying in your heart on self, not down on self, which is a bill to lead. I got a really good friend, Chet Scott. That'd be a great interviewer. He's a superstar leader. He's helped me a lot. But when he talks about be hard on self, not down on self. Down doesn't get you.

43:14Be hard on yourself. But guys that are hard on themselves is really good. Wait, what's the difference between being hard on yourself and being down on yourself? You know, it's a play on words a bit, but it's like, you know, it's like you can be so hard on yourself that you debilitate yourself. Yeah. You know, it's like, that's down. That's down. You know, like be hard on yourself. Yeah. Yeah, I want more. Have high standards. Have high standards. And strive to live up to them. Yes, but don't get down, you know, because down, you know, just be hard. So a lot of the guys, you know, are just really hard on themselves.

43:45Yeah. And then we do a good job and make sure they're not getting down on themselves. Because down on yourself leads you to a path that you don't want to be in that path. The other thing where you were pointing out your coaches and you look at your career as a wrestler, your whole staff, starting with you, are all killers, great, great, great wrestlers. In my sport, there are some of the best coaches that didn't even play. They didn't even make it to college or certainly not to pros. I played for coaches who didn't. And at times it's like, they can still be good coaches. You know, it doesn't feel like that's the case.

44:22Maybe it's just your program and others, but like Dan Gable is a great wrestler. Like you're a great wrestler. Every guy on your staff's an absolute killer wrestler. What is it about wrestling where it's almost like the guys aren't going to listen to him if they weren't all Americans. Like, is that what it is? Like, it's interesting you bring this up and it's a really interesting, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, just got good awareness of, of that fact in wrestling. And I think it's, I think it's to, to a detriment. Huh? I think it's to a detriment. So, you know, I've, I've talked to football coaches.

44:52You just don't go from playing football to being a head football coach. No. I mean, you heard me, I was two years as an assistant and I'm a head coach. And I think wrestling is in this, in this realm of, of, of you had to be a master at it. Yeah. If you're going to help me, you know and i had to watch you and then there's some degree of you have to be able to beat me huh you know like you have to whip me if you can't whip me then you can't help me when you were 25 could you beat everybody on the team yeah really like you still would beat everybody yeah yeah i could i could i would yeah i when did that go away um probably in my third you know early 30s so every five or six years after being here it started to get a little bit so when you got to Ohio State.

45:35You're still killing everybody. I couldn't beat Kyle Snyder. You know, there was some guys I couldn't beat. Did you actually wrestle him? Yeah. But what I could do, and I wrestled live with him. He was big, but what I could do is I could challenge them. Yeah. I could challenge them. And maybe we wouldn't go live, but we would spar and I would get them in positions. And you, you, you actually, it's kind of like playing with your kid on the floor. Your relationship blossoms, right? When you're just on the floor with your child, right? They know they never forget, right? They talk about, they know now the brain from zero to one, how critically important that that phase is in a person's life.

46:08Yeah. So wrestling's kind of that way.

46:14Now, I can't whip anybody anymore. You know, I'm coming through, I was talking about a horrific car accident. I can't really move that well. And it hurts the connection, personally. You still look like you could beat everybody. Yeah, it looks like it, but I can't. My grandmother used to tell my grandfather, he can't lick a stamp anymore. and that's kind of where I'm at. I can't lick a stamp, you know? So it is a unique difference because a lot of the best football coaches, you know, listen, no football coach is trying to tackle their running back or trying to defend their quarterback from throwing a ball to the wide receiver.

46:47But in wrestling, there's kind of this rite of passage. And the thing is, in wrestling needs, you know, they need to grow from this standpoint that just because you can wrestle doesn't mean you're going to be a great coach. Yeah. And it sets the sport back a little bit when you think you can, and it's set up that way. So you come out of college as an elite wrestler and you think you can coach. Well, you don't know anything about coaching. You know about wrestling. In fact, you know about being selfish. More than anything, you know about being somewhat selfish because it takes that, right? To be an elite competitor, you have to have a bit of that in you.

47:23So yeah, so that's just the reality. How do you, because like, for example, in the world of professional selling, It's like back around after I got done playing football. Yeah. A lot of times, if you're like in the top of the stack rankings, they have stack rankings that come out every day of who sells the most, right? Those people get the, get to interview to become a manager, right? But oftentimes that person may get the job and they're actually not a very good manager. They're not like good at teaching others to do it. I'm curious how in wrestling, since it seems like the majority of the coaches, or at least the great coaches were great wrestlers and football and other sports, that's not the case.

47:57So I really am trying to come up with a portable lesson here for the business world of how you get people who are the best at it to actually then become not only good, still good as a wrestler, but good at teaching others and lifting others up and helping them become better at the craft, better at the thing that they're doing. When before maybe they were just selfish and just good for themselves, but not good at teaching others. Yeah, I think so. We're talking about leadership. I think leadership is three. You know, there's a lot. I think it's three pronged for me. I like the simplicity of it for me is three pronged.

48:30The first, the first is they come out as great wrestlers, but the first, I think trait is example. So I think example is the first trait. I think that all leaders are, um, and they walk the walk, you know? So, so, so I've been in this sport long enough to know that these are the areas that you've got to be really good at. And then you, you, so by example, right, you just, you display example, but you challenge them in these ways. So examples first. And then I think the second thing is we call it sharing truth and love, which sounds easy, but too much truth and you're patronizing me or you're offending me.

49:12It's offensive, like you're coming at me really hard here. And too much love, you're patronizing me. Stop it. Give me the truth. Hit me. Hit me harder. you know so i think just being able to honestly authentically share strengths and weaknesses with your staff is really important here's where you've got to grow you know so i think being able to do that is really important and then the last one is embracing you know embracing pain and suffering you know which is you know listen we're gonna we're gonna make decisions that weren't right you know and um and we're gonna accept them and we're gonna you know grow from them yeah it was being someone that isn't your fault.

49:50It was my fault. You know? So, so I think those are the three of the things that I think about constantly, constantly with, with, with my staff and how I can and help them. And then I, and then I empower them. Yeah. You empower them. It's like, you know, I'm not afraid that a, that a student athlete might say on ESPN one night that Jay Jaggers was the difference in my wrestling career. I'm, I want them to say that it's not to be the time. it's not the time Ryan show it's Jay Jaggers it's it's Bo Jordan it's it's Logan Steber and it's kind of like in wrestling it's kind of like a positional coach probably had a quarterback coach yep you know they're positional coaches so they're weight coaches and then we're not I don't box them into one weight or two or three weights but they build a rapport with a student athlete typically around their size because they work with them so so it's you know it's empowering them too and giving them responsibility and having you know not being a control freak where I've got to do everything and everything's got to run through me.

50:48Like I trust you. I trust your decision-making, make the decision. So I think those are some of the things I think that, you know, and then I think great coaches are, you know, as a three, the three C's, you know, we call them, you know, competence. They're really competent from a skill standpoint. So I want to be around someone that can teach skill and I've, I've coached them enough and watched them wrestle enough. They understand the positions. So they're really competent when it comes to the skills of the sport. They're just great people. So they're connectors, right? The other C, the second C is being a good connector, connecting with people.

51:24It's not just transactional, which I'm sure is a big management selling. And then character. They all have great character. If any one of them was behaving in a way that I would get rid of them, I'd get rid of them. Because, you know, I think deep in my student-athletes' souls, they want to be around people that are making good choices. Making them better people. Making them better people. I think at the core, we want that. Well, as part of like trust, part of a trusting relationship is, I think, first and foremost, high character and high competence. You got to have both. I think you got to have both.

52:06If you want a trusting relationship, you've got both of those things at least that, okay, he knows what he's talking about. And I have no doubt in his character and who he is as a person. And I feel like that's like how big time championship cultures are built from high character and high competent staffs. I'm curious for you as the CEO, technically, of the Ohio State Wrestling Program. that like how do you create an environment where it's safe and not only safe but you make it known that you want feedback that you want coaches player or wrestlers or others to to provide because like you're not perfect you know this right like you need you need feedback too but sometimes people aren't good at creating the environment where people feel safe like oh Tom Ryan, he's intimidating.

52:56I don't know. He was a tough guy. Maybe I try to couch it and not make it real, but that's not going to make you better. You need the real feedback. So how do you create the environment where people can do that? Yeah, that's a great question. I think, I think, I think the key to that is vulnerability. I think the leader being vulnerable that, that I've made choices that I regret, that I'm not perfect, that I've, I've, I've failed many times, you know, that I want your feedback, that I care about your opinion. You know, I think it's, I think it's, I think if you come off as a stoic perfectionist that has never failed in any way, I think one people can see through it, you know, because that's just, that's just never happened except for once, you know, one person's lived to be the image of God and that was God, Certainly not me.

53:47So I think that's a big thing. You know, I ask for feedback. You know, I hired an outside guy to help me with the leadership. Oh, really? So yeah, so I hired this guy named Chet Scott. He does a lot of the teams here now. I met him through a common friend. I went to work out with him first. Because like you, like my lens is very focused on what I'm looking for. I know what I'm looking for. I know what I want to be around. I mean, even from seventh grade, like I have this sense of this is who I want to be near. And I met Chet and I worked out with Chet. And the first thing I'll do with someone before I'll ever hire them, the first thing I'll do before I ever buy a piece of machinery is I use it.

54:24I test it. So I met with this guy, Chet Scott, who owns a company called Bill Talid. I worked out with him in the morning. And the first thing I want to know is, is the dude tough? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, is he tough? Because I don't want advice from someone who is telling me they're, give me all this advice, but you're a cupcake. like i want a tough dude like i want you to walk the walk so i worked out with him first and i was like whoa he looks like nothing but he's tough okay you know uh he's he's he's the golfer so uh he swings the club and he's really mentally tough so i'm like i'm interested and then i went to watch him work with a leadership group so i worked out with him first he passed the test and then it was all core it was all core work this isn't about you know i mean how you know like the power cleans and it was all core work.

55:10And, and his core, we called his literal and literal and physical core, right? Your literal core. When I'm in a situation at a party and people are passing around and join, am I going to take it or not? No, my core is strong. I don't care. I'm not doing, I'm going to leave the party, number one. But if I don't leave the party, there's no way anybody can get me to do that. My core is strong. No, just try it. No, I'm not doing it. So the literal core and the physical core. So I learned that. And so I watched him And I watched him interact with people and was like, I want you to work with me. And so he worked with me and my team.

55:43And that has been a big blessing for us as a team and me personally to hire someone that was in the business and could really challenge me. Yeah, I think I think that's the another commonality of leaders who have sustained excellence that I've learned is this like yearning for coaching and feedback and not thinking they've got it like the I do this like a good boss or favorite boss and worst boss exercise. and one of the commonalities among like the worst bosses is they've got it all figured out they've got all the answers they need no help it's like that that's like they always are in the worst versus the favorite bosses is always like growth focus striving to get better surround themselves with other people i want to talk about like one other day that was monumental for you and it's not that long ago april 23rd 2024 right you're driving here right you're driving here early morning, right?

56:36Probably going to get ready to work out what happened. Yeah. So that was, yeah, that was probably, um, as, as, and it's odd to say that as, as grief filled as I was when I lost my son, this was a different experience, but, but equally as challenging when we lost tea, I was healthy. I was physically healthy. I was mentally healthy. Um, so I was, I was able to cope with you have three children that are grieving your wife's grieving i was better i was by no means ready for it but i was better equipped um equipped in some ways and then when i hit this tractor trailer at full speed parked on the highway at 5 45 in the morning um one i was not ready for that and two the physical trauma that occurred was was was surreal and i wasn't ready i wasn't ready to deal with it i wasn't ready emotionally um i think the the reality of like you work out every day like the truth of having i i hadn't missed a workout i would say maybe i went two days in my life since then without sweating so now i'm four months in and i haven't sweat four months into your recovery in our recovery i mean i i couldn't what happened what happened so i basically so so so there's a tractor trailer parked on the highway i hit it at full speed just didn't see it never saw it never saw But I remember I was singing.

58:01I know what I was doing. One, I was wide awake. And I know that from this aura ring. I track everything. It tracks my recovery, how much sleep I had. I was wide awake. I was drinking my morning drink, which was garlic, honey, lemon, and ginger root. I mix it all together. And it's this drink I drank this morning, this goofy drink that's going to keep you healthy. Yeah. So I was drinking a drink. I was singing Trust in God by Elevation Worship. I was watching the road. I looked to my right. I remember changing lanes, and that's the last thing I remember. So I hit it full speed. I basically, I woke up from being cut out of the car.

58:45I was unconscious, but I heard the saw cutting me out. I remember saying, where am I? What happened? I remember the EMT saying, you were in a serious car accident. And I remember saying, please don't touch me. I'm in a lot of pain. And that's the last thing I remember. And then I remember little glimpses of things about five days later. I wake up. I had two. The left leg was 10 hours. The first surgery was 10 hours to repair the left leg. The right leg was healthy but used to save the left leg. They took an 11-inch by 6-inch by half-inch piece of flesh off my quad. They took it right above the quad.

59:23This guy's a genius, Dr. David Nash. that was 12 hours surgery so day one was 10 Dr. Angela Collins is a genius thank God they were right here like the blessing that I was 8 miles from the hospital so Dr. Collins gets me in there she does the rebuild of my left leg Dr. Nash protects the left leg with all this flesh and skin I tore my shoulder, it's still torn I tore my bicep off, still torn I'm just not ready yet to go back in for more surgeries but the between the trauma and the pain and, and the lack of, I was at a lack of hope. I'd be able to wrestle again through the lack of the natural endorphins of working out.

1:00:06I mean, I went into a terrible depression, which I'd never experienced depression. Like I was sad when I lost my son, but I wasn't depressed. I didn't want to die, you know, but in this, I, I, I was suicidal for a little bit. Like really? Yeah. I got so low in such a bad place. I share it with my family. I'm like, listen, I'm in the unthinkable place. Like I can't believe what my brain is thinking. And then this, right, this falls into being a landlord of your mind, which I talk about in the book, but being a landlord of your mind, but knowing when to trust your feelings and when not to trust your feelings.

1:00:42You can't always trust them. They're not reliable all the time. And you've got to be a decipherer of when to and when not to. And it's not easy. in this situation it should have it should have been easy but it didn't feel easy you know a lot of people just end it they just end it they over trust their feelings they're caught up in the moment and they trust their feelings so i openly shared with my closest friends and my family this is my thought this is where i am i don't like where i'm at i got help and i can't believe that my brain was in that place six months ago. Just six months ago, wow. So we're one year removed from the accident.

1:01:23But now looking at, I was at a place where at one point I'm with my grandchildren that I would gladly, like you with your daughters and die for, gladly take their place. I would have gladly taken Teague's place. Like I was with them and I couldn't find any joy in it. So I was just so low and, you know, I got help and time, time and uncovering every rock. It wasn't like just laying in bed, hoping things are going to get better. I started taking creatine. I started taking vitamin D. I got a therapist. I started walking. I could only walk. I would time myself to the mailbox and back how many I could do, you know, in a certain amount of time.

1:02:10And I saw improvement. And the other thing I think I stopped assessing, you know, day by day, how I'm doing. Because day by day, I felt like I was getting no better. So it can take you, it can pull you down the rabbit hole. You know, I was mad at myself for not having a stronger faith. Like you said, God's real. Your goal is to build yourself into the closest image possible. That's all of our missions. How close can you get to the image of what God created you to be? Self-mastery. That's the end goal. That was avoiding me. And everything I believed was just, and then you go into a deeper spiral.

1:02:50You coward. You start calling yourself names. You shouldn't be calling yourself when you're, you know, where's your faith? You're faithless. God didn't promise you two good legs. People have had way worse things than this in life. And they've made it through. And then ultimately, at some point, I just pulled out of it. I just pulled out of it. And I remember when I was in it, I felt like I was in this bubble. and I started to sleep at my son's house. So I went to his house at night because at least the kids, the grandkids kept me busy. And I think the biggest thing was I just couldn't get my mind off myself.

1:03:22You know, and I think just, I was just so consumed with me, you know, in my wellness that it was like, listen, if you're struggling, they talk about anxiety and they say, if you have really bad anxiety, which to me was never real, now it's real. And I have anxiety in my legs, I feel an explosion. I think it's going to have a heart attack. So I have a different approach, But in studying anxiety, it's like you're anxious going to a party because you can't get your mind off yourself. Like just walk in the party and tell someone they look good. Like stop worrying if your shoes are right or your dress looks good.

1:03:52Or is this the right shirt? Or did I shave? Am I buffed enough? It's like focus on somebody else. And I think that helped me in the evenings with my grandkids. At least it was a few hours there where I could just focus on them and get it off of me. because they just demand so much of your attention. So, you know, those are some of the ways I think. So do you think it's STEM? Because like, I feel you on the, my medicine in life is like punishing myself physically. Like it's only if I, I don't even necessarily know how I'll feel if I don't do it because I'd never not done it since I was in fifth or sixth grade, maybe every day.

1:04:34It's just part of what is, honestly, I feel like it's like - You need it. I have to have it. I've never had like a crazy injury before. I've had injuries, but nothing bad. Is it because that, I know you're kind of like that too. Is it because that was just taken away and you're like laid up and in bed? You're like, I'm worthless. I can't push myself. I can't do anything. Is that where you think like the depression stemmed from? Yeah, I'm exactly like that. Like you are, where it's not even like, I want it. You have to. You need it. Yes. And they show now, like science has shown that, that you know, they talk about natural endorphins and stuff, Your muscles actually send signals to your brain when you're using them.

1:05:11Like it's real. It's science. Like God and science are best friends. This isn't like believe one or the other. Science is real. So yeah, not having it, I wanted it and I couldn't have it. And I think just the natural healing that occurs by being able to do it, I couldn't do that. So it was pulling me further down that I had none of these naturally occurring endorphins that are getting to my brain. And that I was just used to. So, yeah. So you needed like less focus on yourself, more on people you love. Yeah, and suffering. Listen, I love that you feel that way. And it's probably a lot of reason why you're so successful.

1:06:01So when I'm on the bike, I use the bike now. That's my means of torturing myself. Yeah. I can't run right now. I can't really walk fast, but I can bike. And every single time I bike, there comes a moment in the bike ride where I realize I'm a sissy. I'm just a wimp. And that I can't, like there comes up with like your humanity is thrown in your face. Yeah. Like there are things that you can't do by yourself. Yeah. You know, you can't maintain for me, you know, but you can't make that at 185 Watts. If you can do that at some point, you can no longer do that. And I think there's just like a humbling, there's a humility piece that you get from suffering, that there's a point in the suffering where you've just had enough and you can't take it anymore.

1:06:56And, and it's, and it's, it's powerful in your life. Yeah. I think to me it builds immense confidence. For example, I can always come up with an excuse why I'm not going to do squats, for example. And this happens semi-regularly. I'm there. I see the squat rack. I have the weights ready to go. There are people around. And I'm like, you know what? My knee is kind of feeling bad. My hamstring is a little tight from sprints on Sunday. I think I'm going to stop. And then I have to pause and say, dude, get under the bar. Like get under the bar. And I think regularly getting under the bar regularly pushing past the obvious excuse that I have then builds confidence for everything else in life.

1:07:40Like all of the other hard things. It's like, no, I chose to do the hard thing. I got under the bar. I didn't really want to. I had excuses. I had good reasons not to, but then did it anyway. That's what I think is kind of the medicine, the part of it that says that it's so portable to other parts of your life by choosing suffering on your own terms. it prepares you to handle the inevitable adversity you're going to face. I think that's well said, and it's the power, right? One in sport, but also just doing things that, like they say, discipline is a superpower. Sure. It's available to everybody.

1:08:11Yeah. But yeah, no, that's just real. It's real. I know you've got to run and pick up a recruiter. I have one more question before you go to the airport. You work with young people, right? You work with people who are obviously college athletes, college student athletes. I'm curious for the person who's just out of college, for example, right? They don't fully necessarily know what they want to do, but they want to leave a positive dent in the world. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice you give to them? Yeah. So, um, you know, lots of, there's a lot of people that, that graduate college and don't know their purpose, their passion.

1:08:54That's very common. I mean, I raised children that they weren't sure what they were going to do. Probably most people. Most people. Most people, yeah. You know, there's a funny skit on Saturday Night Live, or no, it was David Letterman, where Norm is on his show. Yeah. So Norm was on Cheers. I mean, this might be dating. People don't know if people know what Cheers is. Do you know what Cheers is? Yes, I do. I do. Cheers. So Norm's in an interview, he's being interviewed by Letterman, and he said, look, I'm one of the few people that go to college and actually am doing what I studied. he said i used to sit at the corner of the bar and drink beer and now i'm doing that you know so so uh so so it's it's one we we do a lot we do a lot with our with our team on knowing who you are knowing what your belief system is i'm not talking about whether there's a god or not i'm talking about your belief your belief system yeah these are things because every one of us every decision we make is based on a belief system yeah right you've come to terms that that yeah the ultimate this is this this is my belief you believe that getting out of the bar is good for you and important for you you have like a code right you want to you want to come with a your life code values behaviors yeah yeah so so so we so we work a lot with our with our guys on on that life code just just just being it starts inside right build a strong core you know my daughter was i don't know what my love is i don't know my passion is in the in the in the search, it will be revealed to you.

1:10:20It will be revealed to you over time. But you have to stay the course. Stay the course. Live inside these set of boundaries. Continue to strengthen yourself. Continue to grow in the things that you do enjoy. My daughter loved film. So listen, she's an intern at a church and she learned about film and now she's in film. My son loved wrestling, but he also loved videography. Now that world has taken him to the real estate world, but he followed his love. My son, Jake, has never had a drink in his life. It was a core belief. I'm never going to drink. So in the midst of trying to figure out what your purpose and passion is, you can kind of ruin that to some degree.

1:11:10If your core is not strong and you're making decisions that when you finally figure it out are going to be looked back upon. Like even simple things like every guy on my team follows me on Instagram. I follow them. I know who they follow on Twitter. Like who are you even following? Why are you following that? Why would you follow that particular individual? What about that? So it just creates a mindset that is just powerful. So they intern. We get them out in the public. We have them speaking. We bring them to. like we have a children's hospital. You know, one of my guys fell in love with children.

1:11:45I wants to be a nurse. So we try to expose them to as much as possible because you never know when you're going to. It's like, wow, man, I got the chills. I'm ignited by this. Like, this is what I want to do with my life. So it's exposing them to a lot, but make sure that they're strong internally, that their core is really strong because with a strong core, you can do about anything. Man, these guys are so lucky to have you. They're so lucky to have you, man. Like what, what a cool way that you choose to go about this. I'm just so grateful for you. I'm grateful for your time. I would love to keep talking.

1:12:19This is so good. This is so much fun. And if you'd have us, we'd love to come back maybe like in a year or less. Yeah. And just in like, because like, if I look at my notes, like we covered 2 % of them. There's so much, there's so much there too, that you have so much to offer is what I'm saying. And today was just amazing. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was great to be with you. Congrats on all your success. Thank you. Yeah.

1:12:45It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club. If you are, send me a note, Ryan at learningleader.com. Let me know what you learned from this great conversation, amazing conversation with the legendary Tom Ryan. A few takeaways from my notes. Quote, my first workout after driving from Syracuse to Iowa was a soul cleanser. I collapsed in my car outside the arena. I couldn't stop crying. I think it's amazing to think about this. Tom decided to leave Syracuse where he was a champion. There was no guarantee of even making the team at Iowa, let alone a scholarship.

1:13:25He was a walk-on. He shows up on day one. Coach Gable doesn't even know who he is and then says, I'll go over there and wrestle and let's see what you got. It's absolutely crazy that he did this and he goes on to earn his spot. and eventually become an All-American. Just nuts. I want to say and note that this one is a lot different for me because we went to Columbus, got to hang out for a few hours. Before we recorded, we watched some of his All-Americans practice, both with their coaches and each other. And just to get to be in the presence of so much excellence and grit and work ethic, it was just one of the coolest days ever.

1:14:08And then in closing, the moment when he talked about Teague, it's even, I'm recording this days after the fact, and it's still almost emotional just thinking about that moment. In fact, I'd encourage you to go to YouTube and watch this one just to kind of feel what it was like in the room. My friend Corey was there to film all of it. I know he did a great job. I haven't seen it yet, but I know based on what we talked about afterwards. But just to hear him go to that day and share what happened and how he felt, and just that moment when the doctor couldn't even look him in the eyes, and how Tom, still 20 years later, just to see the feeling and the emotion it brings, it was a powerful moment, and I'm just so, so grateful that Tom had us there, and that we did it in person.

1:15:06It's just another reminder that I am the luckiest dude ever to get a chance to do this for a living. And I'm so grateful that you continue to support it, and you spread the word, and you tell your friends, and you go to Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and you keep spreading it. And that's what allows me to do the thing I love the most, have a deep, long-form, meaningful conversation with a guy like Tom Ryan. and because of you, this is what I get to do. So I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. I can't wait for the next one. And if you have any questions or you want to talk more about this or perhaps you've gone through something really tough, don't hesitate to reach out, ryan at learningleader.com.

1:15:47Thank you so much.