656: Dakota Meyer - Medal of Honor, The Battle of Ganjgal, Leadership Under Fire, The Loyalty Question, and What America Needs Right Now

30:02If they believe in a cause that's bigger than themselves and they love people so much that they're willing to do whatever it takes to stop the suffering and pain of other human beings, even if it's at the cost and up to the cost of their life. What was that day like at the White House? Was it at the White House when you're getting the medal? I'm just curious of your emotions, what you were feeling on that day. It was confusing. I mean, I was 23 years old. I didn't know what it meant. Jeez, that's crazy. And I've got the whole world watching me. And then you talk about, you know, this expectation of what they put on you because they think you're a hero, right?

30:41Like, well, I'm just another guy. I'm just a guy that loves people. I mean, one difference in me and anybody else's is like there's tons of guys who deserve a medal of honor. Like there's tons of first responders that deserve way more than that. I mean, there's tons of people out there who've done extraordinary things that have never been recognized. And so, you know, that's the first piece, especially 20 years of war. there's so many guys that you could talk about that just did way more stuff than I did. They're everywhere. Heroes walk amongst us all the time. But what people don't understand is, is that when you say the word hero, they try to make it like it's something other than just somebody like themselves.

31:21And it's not. You know what I mean? Well, I think part of that though, is because, I mean, I don't know what I would do. I don't know if a lot of people, if they're in that situation where it's a life and death, probably death situation that they say, I'm going to, cause you could just say, Hey, I was ordered to not go. I was ordered to stay in. I'm a good military leader. I'm going to stay. I'm a good Marine. I'm going to listen to the orders and I'm going to stay. It's not my fault. I'm doing what I'm told to do. And instead, a hero, I think, says the right thing to do is to disobey these orders multiple times to try to save lives.

32:04And in doing so, I'm probably going to get killed. That's heroic. You don't just wake up a hero, though. Right. I think people think that it's just some natural instinct in you of like, yeah, I'm going to go run into this. And I mean, even as a firefighter, I still get scared. I was scared to death that day. Like if you want to know, if you said, Hey, describe the most prominent emotion of that day, fear. I was scared to death. I was scared to death. And so doing what's right, people think that, Oh, I'm just naturally going to want to do what's right. No, you're not. You're naturally going to want to put yourself first.

32:46You're naturally going to want to choose comfort. Like it's why we have roads. It's why there's paths. It's why, I mean, people are naturally drawn to, and it's a, it's a human instinct of the easy route, choosing comfortable. Right. And that's that, but it's about, you see people, the extremes that they'll go to when they believe in something. And so people got to believe. And like, for me, you don't just wake up and do the hard thing. It starts every day. It's every day. Like, do you get up when you say you're going to get up? What I did that day was nothing more than me upholding my end of the deal to my teammates and to my country.

33:25Look, when I raised my right hand, the country didn't ask me to choose it or to serve it. I raised my right hand and I said, hey, look, if you allow me to serve you, I am going to always stay ready to be willing to try to find a way to perform the impossible, even if it's at the cost of my life. That was the commitment and the oath that I made. And in return, you all appreciate me. You all respect me. I get to wear the nation's cloth. You all honor me. Like people do that, right? Every single day. Like they thank me. Like, does anybody thank you for your service? People are thankful. They think about that.

33:58Right. And so now I've got to live up to my end of the deal. And that's all it was, was me upholding the commitment, just like being a father, just like being a citizen, just like me being an American, just like me, whatever titles you uphold, it's just you doing what, you know, you, you said you were going to do. It's that simple. And I just think that like, I believe, right? Like I believe in the greater good and I love people and it's no different today, right? Like I don't pass a card that I feel like I can pull over and help that person if they look like they're struggling. Like I see somebody walking through it.

34:34It's always easier to do nothing. It's always easier. You're never going to have enough time. You can always justify you're too busy. You can always do that. There's always that easy route sitting right there. But you have to choose to be who you say you are. I think it's the only thing we owe the world is to be who we say we are. Are you a good person or are you not a good person? Life is simple. You're either good or not. And if you're good, are your actions matching that? Is it conditional? It feels like you are the ultimate definition of taking ownership, false situations of your life, of unforeseen circumstances that aren't good, right?

35:19But I'm going to own it. I'm going to take ownership over it. I'm going to do something about it. I'm going to surge into action, whatever that thing may be. but additionally from that as I talked about the beginning of this you're also a human right who's seen some stuff who's done some stuff who's been in the thick of the worst of the worst and so afterwards that can have really really damaging effects what was life like afterwards and how did he deal with some of the PTSD some of the mental struggles you know potential suicide attempts? How did you handle it? Look, the one thing my generation got completely wrong is mental health.

36:00I think the jury's out on that one. I mean, you know, if you look at the suicide crisis we have going on, this mental health pandemic that we have in every scene, it's not due to anything other than people not taking care of people. And it's getting away from reality. You know, we are so emotionally driven. You'll be able to understand this in sports. And you're going to think about two players, the difference. Emotions in sports are very powerful if they're anchored in logic and reality. When reality and logic is anchored in emotion, it's very dangerous. So you know the guys, you know the guys who were very emotional, but they were emotional at the right times and they were able to channel that in order to help the overall goal of winning the game.

36:45But you also know the guys that once they got emotional, they were fighting, getting flagstone on them that were all of a sudden moving you backwards. You know the difference in those people, right? And that's what you see out there right now is, is we're giving people no hope because we're trying to accommodate their emotions and not bring them back to reality and logic that helps set them out up with discipline and down the road, right? That's reality. And it starts with people's individual health. And so for me, like I came back and people were, they did this with me. I mean, you know, when, when you looked at me and I was struggling, I was drinking every single day and I was taking all these actions that do you think, I mean, when you're drinking a depressant all day long, what do you think it's going to do with depression?

37:28You wonder why you're depressed and then you still have to get up and go do shit. So you're shoving 1200 milligrams of caffeine down your throat because you're having to overcompensate for all the depressant you've taken. What do you think that, that caffeine is going to now do cause anxiety, right? And then you add those two up with some trauma. Well, what do you think you got? You got a cocktail of self-induced mental health, right? And so I'm not saying that there wasn't some trauma. It needed to be dealt with, right? But you can't deal with something when you are amplifying, when you are just sitting here and feeding the problem, not the solution.

38:05And that's what I was doing. And I think that's where the world's at today is, you know, when they talk about PTSD, depression, anxiety. Think about this. Like if the recruiter for the school, if only the guys that didn't make the team came to you and tried to recruit you, do you think you would want to go be part of that team? No. And that's what you have out there right now. The people who are talking about depression, anxiety, and PTSD are the ones that never got over it. Right. They're the ones that like it became their identity. You don't see people. That's why I told you the, the three phases of, you know, going through it, the obstacle, then getting through it and then bringing people through it.

38:42You've got a bunch of people that are standing there and still ain't figured out how to get over the obstacle, trying to help the people who are facing the obstacle. And now they're all stuck on that side of it. You don't have the people who've gotten over it and who are better from it and who have found a way to live with it, bringing others through it. And that's where we're at right now in the world. And so I think for me, you know, I got out and I was drinking every day. I was hanging around people who all they wanted to do was talk about their trauma, their war, combat. I mean, like, look, if I sit here and talk about my teammates dying every day, how do I expect myself to move on?

39:18How do I expect, how do you, how are you happy if you're just talking about your problems and what bothers you the most all day long, right? You know, you're not, you're not, you're not healing. That's not healing. It's like picking the scab off your wound every single day. And so I struggled with that. And then people wouldn't hold me accountable, you know, because I would just look at you and you'd be like, Hey, you're drinking too much. And I'd be like, well, you don't know what it's like for your team to watch your team get killed. I mean, what are you going to say to me? Right. Until for a long time, people were like, Oh, you know, we couldn't imagine what you've gone through.

39:48And they're right. They couldn't, but I couldn't imagine what you've gone through. I needed people to hold me accountable. And finally, you know, it wasn't until that, that people did start holding me accountable. until like are you you're holding a clock in your hand from your truck's glove compartment is this what happened yeah that's the place you get to when people keep feeding and they don't they don't bring you back to reality you know like that there's only one direction of feeding emotions and that's that's turmoil especially when it comes to mental health And, you know, yeah, I mean, I, this is not the person I wanted to be, right?

40:27I was not living the life that I wanted to be. I was not helping people. I was not, I was not in any position to be what, who I knew I was. And I couldn't figure out why. That's like the thing is like, you know, you, that was the thing you did. You came home and you were this broken service member. And that was kind of like the rest of your life. You know what I mean? That's what it seemed like. It was like a PTSD was kind of like a terminal illness, you know? So I ended up attempting suicide. I didn't. It didn't. Obviously, it didn't go through. I'm sitting here. But thank God it didn't. Thank God it didn't.

41:02And I made the commitment to myself at that point because the gun wasn't loaded. And I told myself, you know what you can do. If you really want to die and you're really going to keep living your life this way, rack it back and go ahead and do it. Or go out and you've got to find a way to get through this and start living a life worthy of their sacrifices, your teammates' sacrifices. How are you doing today? I wake up and live the best day of my life every day. Really? Every day. Every day. How did you get to such a great place of gratitude? You know, accountability. I was becoming the thing that I wanted to protect people from.

41:42You know, when I looked at it, the most unbecoming thing that there was, was when I would justify me not being the best that I could be. And I was justifying it by the sacrifices that my teammates had made. How insane is that? They died so that I could live. And I seen it firsthand. So I know the cost of freedom. I know the cost of and how valuable today is. the fact that me and you have air in our lungs and we're able to sit here and look at each other. Do you know how many people, there are people on earth right now that would give anything to have that. And so for us to sit here and use that as our excuse to not go out and make the most of it, to be a good human being is absolutely unbecoming of anything good.

42:36you're also a dad two daughters yeah how has that changed you well it's accountability yeah they're the only two people in my life that didn't choose for me to be the role that i am in their life and so i can't be anything that i wouldn't let anybody else be to them so they deserve the best and it's my job to give them that and the only way i can give them the best as if I am the best. I believe as a father of daughters, I believe that you're, you are, so you date your daughters the longest of anybody. You set the bar for what they're going to accept and what they're not going to accept. And so I want them to have the best.

43:22And so the bar is high every single day. Then I got to make sure I set it because look, I believe that if your daughters start dating shitty and weak men it's because you are shitty and weak man yeah to make it a little light for a second because it's been deep so my daughters make fun of me all the time it's a daily occurrence i don't know how anybody could make fun of dakota meyer though like my daughters my daughters like they uh it's pretty funny it's pretty funny people be like uh wait how old are they again? Eight and nine. So, okay. Okay. So yeah, go ahead. Yeah. They tell me I'm cringe all the time.

44:02Dad, you're cringe. I heard them the other day. There was like somebody made, they'd made these little action figures of me and they'd mailed them to my daughter. This was a while back, but, um, you know, they're definitely not going to keep them. Like they're going to rip them out of the box and they're in there playing and I'm like making them breakfast on a Sunday. and I heard one of them go, oh, I'm Dakota Meyer. I used to be cool, but now I'm just a dad. And I was like, hey, hey, you better put that shit up. They know about your service, right? You know, they know I'm a Marine, right? But I don't ever talk about it.

44:39I don't know if they know about it. Honestly, Google's playing. Look, if you're a parent today, you understand that this reality check of Google of them being able to see what's real and what's not. So I don't know what they know. They don't ever bring it up. But my goal has always been that I know one day they're going to find out. And I just hope that by the time they find out, they're not surprised by the dad that I've shown them and the man that I've shown them that I am. Yeah. Well, I was rereading Into the Fire, which is an insanely well-written book that seems like a movie the crazy thing is it's your life and so i would imagine you know maybe at some point they read that and be like no way like no way that that's our dad like that i just can't even oh that's that's crazy i normally do not talk about current events dakota i like these to be timeless but you had a tweet recently that i think is a timeless tweet you actually did this on September 11th of this year because there's a lot going on in the world.

45:45The assassination of Charlie Kirk. And you said for those even mentioning, quote, civil war, you are wrong. That only amplifies our problems. America doesn't need a war. What we need is to vote, to lead, to speak Wake up in schools to teach our kids history, truth, kindness with strength, and how to disagree without violence. It starts with us being the example. We must not become what we're trying to correct. Man. Amen. Say more about that because when I hear people talking about civil war or whatever, I'm like, what are we doing? Why are we saying that? I understand people are mad and rightfully so, but civil war, uh, I, yeah.

46:36So when I read that, I thought this is exactly right. This is the message. Literally everybody needs to hear what Dakota is saying. Yeah. I understand the emotions behind it. I understand that people are feeling a lot right now, but feeling in these moments right now is a very good symptom of that people care. And what I'll say is, right off the bat, is the people calling for civil war have never done war. 100%. So if you're getting caught up in these guys talking about civil war or things like that, just understand that they've never done it. Understand that they've never, I don't care what their record says or what they tell you they've done, they've never done it.

47:16Nor would they be willing to, right? I think that's dangerous rhetoric, right? But I also think that this rhetoric of choosing violence because you don't agree with somebody is just as dangerous. And you're seeing that. And whether you like it or not, whether you like it or not, for some reason, and I'm not going to get into left or right, but there is one side that is choosing violence and has been. I mean, you see it. You can't argue it until we can all come to the table and agree that no matter what, no matter what death or no matter what wrong inside of our country is not acceptable to induce violence.

47:59We can't even talk. We can't talk. You know what I mean? Look, I do not agree with people entering the building the way that they did January 6th. But I also, like even bigger, don't agree with the burning of cities. like it's called peaceful protest. Yes. Don't agree with Jimmy Kimmel getting canceled. Right. I think that is wrong unless you are inciting and trying to get people to induce violence. There is no cancellation of you. Right. Like, look, now I think organizations can do whatever they want. Right. I think that if they choose that, this doesn't fit what they want to, but I don't think that it's right.

48:35You know, the organizationally, yes, whoever's paying, you can obviously, I mean, people get fired all the time. Right. If you don't work on time, you get fired. So I think that people can do that and organizations can, but I think us as a country, unless you are actively trying to get people to go and hurt other people, it's free speech, hard stop. It's a dangerous slope, dangerous slope. And so we've all got to back off and we have to identify where the lines are at. But the number one thing that's killing us right now, Ryan, and this is it. It's hypocrisy. We are holding other people to a standard that we don't hold ourselves to, period.

49:20If you want to talk about the single factor to all the problems in, we'll just talk about our country, but as humans, it's hypocrisy. And hypocrisy is going to kill us. I think your voice is so important to be heard right now, as important as anybody in our country legitimately because you've actually been there and done it. You've been in the midst of all of the toughest places on our planet. You've served our country. You serve our country. You seem to be remarkably reasonable. Being able to say things are right or wrong and not say like, I'm on this side or I'm on that side, but to be an independent thinker and to be able to say, I'm with this or I'm with that, not based on, again, any right or left, but just being a reasonable person of what makes sense.

50:16And I think you and more who have similar voices like that, who have done what you've done, which is a tiny, tiny percentage of humans on the planet need to be heard a lot more than some of the voices that we're hearing today. Yeah. But it's hard. I mean, just being honest with you, it's hard to overcome because people I don't want to hear that. Like people like, yeah, it's like this dopamine fix. You want to talk about PTSD. You know, PTSD is all about this. You know, you talk about this dopamine, you know, you talk about this rise in cortisol, all this stuff, right? Like the same thing, Ryan comes from negativity.

50:53So think about this. People like negativity because it makes them feel right. Like that's why people get so energized in it because it amplifies it's a fight or flight. It's no different than being in combat, right? If there's some negativity coming at you or some type of conflict, your senses rise. It gives you that high, just like jumping out of a plane or things like that. And that's why people are so addicted to reality TV. That's why they're so addicted to negativity. That's why you go put a comment out on social media that's not controversial. Nobody says shit. But you turn around and you put out something that's controversial and all these people want to comment because it makes them feel, it triggers this in them, right?

51:29And so all of a sudden, it's no different than coming home from combat. It's the same as coming home from combat. Think about this. If your cortisol levels and all of these levels are risen because of fight or flight, you don't think that gets addictive to people? And that's why people are struggling so much. Because when I look at you and I go, I always ask questions. I'm in. I'm in. Listen, I'll hear, listen, and flush out any idea, any concept. and I'll just do it by questions. So, you know, you want to talk about civil war. Okay. Okay. Let's flush it out. What are we trying to accomplish? Who are we against?

52:10Identify who we're against. People who don't agree with us. Oh, so is that, that's everybody. At what point, what is success? If it's left versus right. So does a civil war come down? Does like one side have to be completely eliminated. You don't change a mindset or ideas by attacking the idea or mindset. You change it by giving them a better mindset. I'm sure you see this too. When you go out on the road and you speak or you meet with leaders or companies or people, and you meet people from all over the spectrum of political landscape, all different parts of the country, bumping shoulders, having conversations, the online world of the craziness of the negativity that you're talking about is not real life.

52:58It is not like that. You get out there. Like I said, I travel all over the country, all different places, red, blue, whatever, purple, everything. And I'm like, these people are great. These people are great. They're great people everywhere. But then it's why it's, I think the governor of Utah said it, Spencer Cox, he's like, get off, get off social media and go touch some grass, go bump into people, have conversations. Obviously, there are exceptions. And we've seen some examples, unfortunately, that have been tragic. But for the most part, you get out there and you have those conversations and you realize most people are great, man.

53:34They really are. But I do think you need to get offline and just go talk to people, go bump into them, have conversations, listen, ask questions, be curious, ask follow-up questions, just like you're saying is what you do. And I think that leads to a lot better outcomes than arguing with people on the internet. Yeah. And I call them, they're these echo chambers. And now you don't have to just listen to one show, one news network that's trying to tell the truth. You only listen to the people that you agree with, which is very toxic. And that's what you do out there. And I'm with you. I travel all the time.

54:13I travel all the time. And I'll tell you, Ryan, like if I connect with somebody or I don't, it was all my choice. You could throw me and I would challenge anybody that's throw me in any room. And I bet you, I bet you I can find a way to connect with them and everybody leave feeling better. 100 % I'll find something that we have in common we all have more in common every human being you know we all and I realize this is a firefighter like man I come up on people and I'll tell you what's crazy is is I come up on a homeless person who's overdosed or whatever whatever it is you know there was a point in their life where they never thought they'd be homeless we're all only a few decisions away from being where somebody that we're looking down on is at i've met guys people who made a bad business decision lost their family their wife lost all their money then tried to deal with the pain by taking a pill and the next thing you know they're homeless literally we're all three to four decisions away from being that.

55:28And it's like, I, you know, I look at them and I relate to them and, you know, I understand them and I don't necessarily, I don't have to agree with everybody. I don't have to definitely might not be the route that I would have took, but, but you know what, like I leave all of them trying to connect with them on some way because it makes me better. You know, I feel like everybody you come in contact with, like they all have a key and they can unlock something in you but it's your job to find the right lock for it to unlock something in you and the more people you can let that key unlock something in you the better human being and the better understanding you have so we've got to split first off education and knowledge and what that means is is like let me ask you this you take a doctor like technically a doctor right out of school knows the book better than anybody but do you want that doctor working on you no right because it's a difference between education and knowledge and we've got to get more knowledgeable people out there speaking and the problem is is those who can't do they teach right we need more that have done teaching what uh that leads me my last question for at least this this first conversation dakota like what is it that you want to do more of what excites you the most about your current work that you want to put out more of into the world?

56:51I want to bring people together, right? Like I want to unite people. I want to put hope back in the world. And I want to do that through truth. Like I love people. It's unconditional. It's unconditional. It always has been. I believe in people, right? And I believe it's got to go back to love. You know, if you go back to the day, September 8th, like what it taught me the most. And I'm so thankful for that day because it taught me what unconditional love is. And it taught me the power of it. And love, you know, what we've done today is, is we've wrapped love up into this feeling. It's an emotion.

57:36And love's not an emotion. Love is a choice. You know, we think that if you love me, you'll make me feel good. and it's exact opposite. If you love me, you're going to always help me be the best version of me. That's what love is. And that doesn't always feel good, right? And I think in life, you have to decide as a person, do you want to be liked or do you want to be trusted? You can't tell somebody you love them, but stand back and watch them make decisions that aren't serving them to be the best person that they are. Like if they trust you and you truly love them, you have to say the hard things.

58:13And 90 % of love is hard and it sucks and it hurts. And I realized that on the battlefield. I realized that like hate was not going to get me through that day. Hating the enemy was not going to get me through that day. But loving my country, loving what I believed in, loving the people that were stuck in their suffering was being fueled by negativity and hate. It is, there's an expiration date on it. Dirty fuel, man. It's not the clean stuff. It's dirty, right? It burns bright, but goes away fast. Like it's dirty fuel. Yeah, man, it is. Love is limitless. Yeah. And it is, there's no expiration date and we got to get back to it.

59:01Well, you know, it's just like, I understand like the people, again, this is not like life or death military stuff, but the people who are motivated by doubters or haters and they have those healthy chips on their shoulder, or at least what they think are healthy chips on their shoulder, that's dirty fuel, right? It can be helpful like temporarily to prove them wrong. I get it. But to me, what you're saying is so right because how fun is it, man, when like you do something, you make an impact, you win the game, whatever, and you're surrounded by the people that you love and that love you and you're celebrating together, that's what it's all about because the haters will not be there.

59:41They will not be around when you prove them wrong. They're nowhere to be found. You could probably go look for more haters somewhere else, but they're not going to be there to celebrate. The people you love, though, they're right there, man. Shoulder to shoulder, hugging, loving, kissing. That's the thing, man. That's the juice. So that's why I love that. I didn't know you were going to say that, but I love that that's kind of the way your ethos of how you're going about yourself and how you're trying to impact people in a positive way. Yeah, man. I mean, think about it, right? Like a guy told me this the other day.

1:00:08I was going back and forth on, I mean, obviously we're always taking haters, right? This guy told me, he said, he said, don't give him any fuel. He said, don't even pay him any attention. He said, you know what? History never remembers the critics or the haters. So true. Dakota, man, this is amazing. unlike anything I've ever done, man, in 11 years. I'm very, very grateful that you exist and that you're here and for your service to our country. I hold you in as high of a regard as I can of any other human being. So thank you for that. I know you probably makes you uncomfortable hearing that, but I'm not going to not say it because it's true.

1:00:45Thank you for being here. I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress, man. This was great. Let's do it again. Love it, man. Thank you so much.

1:00:57It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club. If you are, send me a note, Ryan at learningleader.com. Let me know what you learned from this great conversation with American hero, Dakota Meyer. This one is unlike any I can remember. Just to hear Dakota share, that's his story. It just blew my mind. A few takeaways from my notes. Nobody cares how hard you tried. Nobody cares how hard you worked. the stakes are so high. Dakota was leading in life and death situations. The key learning for us to take is to take ownership, complete ownership of our lives like Dakota has.

1:01:41Don't wait for someone else to do it. Don't complain about your boss. Nobody cares. Or about the broken systems at your work. Again, nobody cares. Take ownership of your life, your career, your family. Don't be a passive observer who just complains. Be an owner. And then when, oh, God, that story, when he was telling about his teammate was pinned down, asking for support. And he said, if you don't get me these rounds, we're going to die. And the response was, quote, try your best. I cannot imagine. At that moment, Dakota decided to disobey his orders, and he drove into the ambush multiple times to get his teammates.

1:02:23as he said, you don't have to have a title to be a leader. Dakota risked his life multiple times to help his brothers. And in the process, he saved many of them, even though he's focusing on the ones that he couldn't. When I asked him, did you think you were going to die? How quickly he responded, I knew I was, but I wanted to make him earn it. Oh, I just cannot imagine that. And then his tweet, for those even mentioning, quote, civil war. You are wrong. That only amplifies our problems. America doesn't need a war. What we need is to vote, to lead, to speak up in schools, to teach our kids history, truth, kindness with strength, and how to disagree without violence.

1:03:09It starts with us being the example. We must not become what we're trying to correct. Could not have said it better myself. Dakota is the perfect person to be speaking up right now. Once again, I want to say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Dakota Meyer. I think he'll help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that, and you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts, write a review, rate the show, hopefully five stars, subscribe to it. doing all of that gives me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis, which is to have conversations like this one.

1:03:50And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can't wait.