373 - Forget Work-Life Balance, Try This Instead | Marie Forleo & Sheri Riley

0:28Hey there, it's Louise from Team Porleo.

0:33Sherry, thank you so much for making time today. It's so great to have you on the show. Oh gosh, I'm so excited to be here. You know, I love having, when you have your conversations, your Marie Forleo TV and podcast, I just love your interview style. So to be here talking to you today, I'm excited. Thank you. And as I shared in the opening, Exponential Living, You and I have been going back and forth a little bit in DMs. And I just love your book. It's fantastic. I'm really excited to get into everything. I was telling you, we have our annual company two-week summer break. And so your book was the book that was with me on the beach.

1:15And I'm just underlining. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is going to be such a great conversation. Because everything you're talking about in exponential living, stop spending 100 % of your time on 10 % of who you are is ideal for the season and the stage of my business and life. And we can kind of unpack that a little bit, but I want to dive into your story. So can you take us back and share a little bit about how you got here? You were this power broker in the music industry. You have such rich layers of experience that got us here and I want people to hear your story. Well, I'm going to tell the thumbnail version of it because it's so much.

1:54It started when I was about 14, 15, but I'm from a small town. I'm a small town girl. I had these big dreams of working in the entertainment industry. And to be honest, people thought I was crazy because here I was 14, 15. I'm a date myself. So this was pre-Google, pre-cell phones, pre-computers, pre-internet. Yeah. And so when I was talking about the music industry and I was going to live in Atlanta, I'd never been to Atlanta and the music industry was in New York and Los Angeles. So literally, I sounded like I was going to build hotels on Mars. Like that's how realistic it was. But after a whole lot of no's, a whole lot of working for about 10 years, I ended up as the head of marketing at LaFace Records.

2:39where I was doing the marketing for Toni Braxton, TLC, Usher, the Olympic album, Outkast. I mean, some of the most phenomenal artists of the 90s and still to this day. I love the people I worked with. I loved what I was doing. High six-figure income, mid-20s, by my mother at home, by the age of 27. I mean, this was my dream. And I was miserable. I was absolutely miserable. My hair was falling out. And I thought that it was just I needed to do more. So work harder, Sherry, connect with more people, buy something different, go on another trip. And I literally crashed and burned. Like people ask me, how did you leave LaFace?

3:27I crashed and burned. But what I discovered is that I was spending 100 % of my time on 10 % of who I was. but expecting 100 % of my fulfillment. And so I had this amazing career, but I didn't have a good life. And what, like, did you start hearing the whispers? You know, like, something's a little off. And then did the whispers start to turn into an audible voice? And then it starts to turn into a bit of an internal yell until your body is just like, no more. Was like, can you, can you peel back a little bit about that internal experience of feeling you go in that direction of going like, I'm miserable.

4:08I need to stop. Yeah. You know what? I thought it was, I didn't hear the whisper, even though now looking back, it had been a loud scream the whole time, but I didn't hear it. But what it was is I felt like I needed to work harder. I needed to learn more. Oh, I just haven't reached the goal. You need to be vice president. When you become vice president, oh, you need a bigger expense account. Oh, when your artist wins Grammy of the year. Oh, so I felt this thing, but I thought that it was the drive pushing me to do more. Instead of understanding what was really crying out in my spirit and my soul was the need for peace.

4:55Like I needed to understand that it wasn't about getting more, doing more, becoming more. But it was generally about having that place of peace right where I was with what I had and then understanding that was what my desire was. Not more, but to appreciate what I had and really understand I needed more peace, not more things. Mm. And did you, when you finally stepped away, like that first, you know, resigning, giving your notice, letting your friends and people know, can you walk us through what that was like from an internal perspective? What were you saying? What were you thinking? What were you feeling?

5:34I felt amazing. Everyone around me thought I was crazy. My dad thought I'd had a nervous breakdown because literally, Marie, I resigned on June 5th, closed on my house on June 6th. My last day was June 19th and I moved into my house June 19th. Who does that? Like my dad was like, you've had a nervous breakdown. And on top of it, I was telling everyone, all I want to do is sit in my yard and play in the dirt. Like I just want to plant things. Yeah. Like I was like, So I like everyone was like, she's lost it. But for me, it was the first time that I genuinely felt the peace, that small voice you were talking about.

6:18It was the first time I really felt it. And what I realized later was working in the music industry, working at LaFace was only one of my dreams. And so the truth is, if I hadn't crashed and burned, I would have honestly stayed at that company years longer than I was supposed to, because that was only one of my dreams. I also wanted to be an entrepreneur. So the crash and burn was really the gateway for me transitioning to the next phase. And I felt that peace in me, but I wasn't clear about it until much later. Isn't it so fascinating that sometimes some of our biggest moments of pain and grief and disappointment lead to our biggest breakthroughs.

7:01And like, you know, in that moment, they're painful and there's tears and there's doubt and there's fear and all of these consistent things that we human beings go through. And then on the other side, we're like, whoa, that could have been the greatest gift of my life. But it's what you said. It's that still small voice that's always kind of there going, this is right. This feels good. But we fight it. But it really is that small voice that's affirming you. This is it. It doesn't because everyone was telling me I was crazy. Everyone was telling me, Sherry, how could you leave? The music industry is great.

7:39What are you doing? My father, who was the most solid voice in my life, was like, I don't know what you're doing. I don't understand this entrepreneur thing. But underneath all of that, again, there was this piece of, this is exactly what you need. And every time I've had like a broken place in my life, and I've had some tremendous breaking places in my life, just how will I ever recover? But there's always been that still voice, that silent, calm peace somewhere in me that says, you know what, if you can fight for your peace, you will get the power to make it through this. and you're gonna have something better on the other side.

8:20I love that you're mentioning that small voice too because my mom, when I was little, taught me that that voice was God. That was my direct line. And she was raised Catholic and so she kind of rebelled a little bit against formal church, but she's very, very, very spiritual. So she kind of passed that down to me that she's like, whenever you hear that small voice, Marie, that is God talking directly to you and you got to listen. You got to listen because it's not going to make sense to the outside world. But inside, it's always guiding you on your path. And what I'm hearing you say, Sherry, is that voice, it sounds like when you begin embracing this notion of exponential living and we're going to dive deeper into prioritizing peace, which again, I read this from you and it made my heart burst open.

9:13And I'm like, Sherry, yes, thank you. But when you start doing that, that voice, in my experience, becomes even more clear and you get to trust it, especially because, again, it will lead you to places that you couldn't have anticipated and that often the rest of the world, because of our society's definition of success, it's very, very different. And I feel like that voice leads us to be our most courageous, creative selves. You know, you just said all three words, right? peace clarity and courage oh I didn't know that I love it literally but it really is I mean when I tell you peace clarity and courage that that is the essence of exponential living but I'm going to share with you here's the thing for like now so many of my colleagues so many people go oh my god Sherry the message the message is everything so for the 12 years that I was on the journey of writing this book and the 12 years of transitioning out of LaFace, when I was talking about peace and clarity and courage, people were like, okay, that's crazy.

10:23No one wants to hear that. Like, unless you're talking to me about how I'm going to make more money or how I'm going to get that next promotion, like what you're saying is crazy because everyone equated this piece to kumbaya. I got to go sit in the corner. I need to be rocking and finding crystals, you know, instead of understanding that, no, this is where our true power is, because this is where that still small voice begins to get louder and louder, where we get the clarity, where we get the courage, but more important, where we really get to define what's most important to us. So for years, I was this anomaly, like, here she comes again, talking about, you know, peace instead of a Birkin bag.

11:07But watching that transition of now, how important it is for people to understand that peace doesn't remove the desire for material things. It doesn't minimize the impact that you can have in your career. It doesn't take away the power that you possess in relationships. It literally becomes the anchor so that you can really fully enjoy all of those things that you work so hard for. Yes. And that I'll tell you, that has been something that I'm continuously unpacking for myself. I have this deep, deep, deep work ethic that came from my own family's, just a lot of scarcity, a lot of fear, a lot of not having a lot.

11:51So you just work to produce. And I love one of the things about getting older is just the perspective, right? To be like, well, what the hell am I working my ass off for 24-7? And I'm not enjoying any of the fruits of my labor or just the experience of being alive. I want to go back to a little bit earlier around Usher because my sense when I was reading your book was that small voice was telling you then, you know, when Usher, and please correct me if I'm getting the details wrong, you know, the potential for you guys to work more closely together was there. And you were like, you know what? No.

12:31Wouldn't do it. Yeah. He did not understand it. Yeah. So when it was time for me to resign, I knew like up until that point, it had really been me, him and his mom really leading the charge, the label. And he was growing. He was 15, 16, 17, teenager. There was some struggles. Everyone knew he was talented beyond measure. But what do we do with this? Like, what do we do with this 40-year-old charisma and this 17-year-old mindset and body? And so him and I just really formed this brother-sister bond. But when I resigned, I knew he was 21. He was 22. I'd seen so many artists during that fave just really lose themselves and then lose their career.

13:20And so Marie, what I would say to him all the time is I'm more concerned with you, the man, than you, the brand. And that was my heart. That was my heart for him. And so, you know, I told him I wouldn't work with him and he was offended. It doesn't make sense. Honestly, for about 10 years, he came with many opportunities to run his foundation. And I would always say no. But about 10 years later, he hit a place in his life that honestly, it was a make or break moment in his life. And that's where he finally got it because he knew I could be the person that he could come to. I had no vested interest and he could always just be himself.

14:05He never had to be anything other than him. And it was a critical place in his life personally. So 10 years later, he was like, my God, like, I get it now. But how many people walk away from that level of success or access from a professional standpoint, especially as an entrepreneur? I mean, Marie, come on. Yes. That's the kind of client you launch a company with, right?

14:33But, you know, here we are. You know, I have two children. He has his. We've got these relationships. We are forever bonded. So the greater gain was my heart for him as a man versus him as a brand, because I knew he would be successful, which, duh, right? Right. Yeah. So, yeah. So I just, but I've made those kinds of choices multiple times in my career and in my personal life because I've always felt like if I could do the right thing, the right way, I'm always going to win. I'm always going to win. Yeah. I, that's why I, again, so much in your book, I was just like, I think Sherry and I are meant to be friends because there have been a lot of things in my entrepreneurial journey, stuff that I can't even really talk about, but like where I've said no to big things for that same exact reason, something in my heart was like, no, like even though on paper, everyone would be like, you got to do this.

15:40This is the quote unquote supposed next level. Or how could you say no to so-and-so. And I'm like, that faith inside of trusting my heart and just trusting that I can make hard calls. And it's not always about what you can gain in the short term. It's about the long term and trusting that heart. And so I appreciate you sharing that story with us because it's important. It's important in this day and age. And there's so many entrepreneurs that watch our show, that those opportunities come across your desk. And if you're not solid and strong in yourself and your faith, you're going to say yes to things and then wind up usually looking in the rear view mirror going, I should have listened in that small voice.

16:25I should have listened. Yes. It's a marathon, not a sprint. That's right. So let's talk about, I want to talk about peace a little bit more. I know we dove in for a moment, but you shared in the book, balance isn't the answer. And pursuing peace is not about work-life balance. Can you walk us through that distinction? Because I think it's important, like you said, what you're prescribing is not like, hey, we're going to sit kumbaya or meditate all day and not have any problems. Just be like, I'm just so peaceful. No, that's not what you're talking about. And in the first 60 pages, I'm like, balance is a myth.

17:03Balance is a myth. I don't believe in balance because the reality is balance says, if I'm sitting here having this amazing conversation with you and my daughter needs me to come pick her up at school, I could go do both. But I can't. And so balance makes me feel guilty because it means life has to do like this. And that's not reality. Yes. What I totally subscribe to is full life integration. And full life integration allows you to, one, give yourself permission to get help. Right. So it's like, what's the village I need? So if I'm here with you, who are the people that I've put in my village that if I need to go get my daughter, they can pick her up?

17:44And when you think about balance, you're always like, how do I make the scale work? But when you think about full life integration, it's like, what are the pieces I need in my life to make it work? And that's the big difference between balance and integration. And then when you add peace to that, it really is about not about making everything work perfectly. Like the biggest issue people have with peace is that means everything is going to be fine. Like I'm going to get to a place in my life where the boat is never going to rock. There's never going to be another problem. Like life is smooth. And that's a lie.

18:20That doesn't exist. And so when I was writing my book, a good friend of mine, I asked her, you know, for a year, will you commit to once a month? I mean, once a week coming on a call with me and be my vision partner just really helped me flush through this concept. And so one of our calls, I said to her, you know, the core of this message is peace. And she lives in New York. So she was like, Sherry, there's no such thing as peace. Like you can't like she was like, you can't get in a yellow cab anymore and just be quiet and calm. Like now there's advertisement playing, like there's no such thing as peace.

18:55So she's like, I love everything, but take peace out. And I respected her, but I'm like, that's the core. And so what I began to share with her in my favorite book, it talks about how, you know, Jesus is in the boat and he's asleep and the disciples are like in the boat with him. And it's this crazy storm and the winds are going every place and the boat is rocking and everything. And the disciples are like, oh my God, like he's asleep. Like, does he not realize we're going to die? Like, like he sleep, the winds are going crazy, we're rocking. And they literally wake him up. And he just says, peace be still.

19:32And what I take from that is peace is always available to us. We have to choose it. So it's not about the weather, the water and everything being calm. It's about you understanding the power you have when life is out of balance, when things are going crazy, when you feel like you're overwhelmed and out of control. And that can be good and bad. And so when we really lock into the core of everything is peace, then that's when we're able to truly walk and own our greatness instead of trying to prove our greatness. Hmm. Please. Yes. And yes. And yes, Sherry. Yeah. That proven, we got to let that go.

20:14And again, I'm raising my hand to that. I think I spent so much, again, this is why I really enjoy getting older because the perspective and the wisdom. And I just remember that feeling in my early 20s of so desperate to prove, so desperate to prove and achieve and to like, I fit in and I can do this and all that stuff. And I'm like, oh, it's exhausting. Yeah. Exhausting. Yes. Has your to-do list got you trapped in gridlock? Like you've got a million and one things bogging you down and you can't even move an inch forward. Look, you don't have to go through life stuck in mental traffic jams. That's why I created a simple free tool that'll help you stop overthinking and let go of toxic stress in just five minutes.

21:02To get this gift, go to marielovesyou.com slash stress log. Stop letting stress sabotage your peace and happiness. Get this easy to use tool at marielovesyou.com slash stress log. Let's talk about ownership because that's another, it's like one of my favorite words and just taking ownership of all of your choices. Can you tell us how ownership relates to exponential living? Yes, so ownership is very big. It's in the very first principle. Exponential living is literally nine principles that when we live these nine principles, that's when we get the peace, the clarity and the courage. And so the first principle is living your power.

21:48And the second key to that is ownership. Like, what are you focused on? Like, what are you focused on? And the reality is, is we're so busy with this massive to do list. Oh, my God. I want to I want to just take the to do list in every especially every woman's life and just rip it up, throw it up like confetti.

22:13Oh, my God. But the thing is, is that it's not about the habit of just throwing everything on our to do list. It's really about what's most important. So back when I was trying to write this book, literally. So you'll you'll appreciate this as an author. It took me seven years to write the book proposal, not the book. Okay. The book proposal, as you know, is pretty much a glorified outline, right? It's a very thorough outline. So seven years to write a book proposal. In December 2014, I literally took everything off of my to-do list and I took ownership of what was most important. I wanted to lose 25 pounds because I needed to do some things with my health.

22:58I decided to increase my speaking engagements because that's how I wanted to generate revenue and I was going to secure my publishing deal. Those three things. If what was on my to-do list didn't directly or indirectly impact those three things, I took it off. That was the second week of December 2014. Now remember, seven years to try to do a book proposal. Four weeks later, January 7, 2015, I sent my book proposal to my agents. They called me within 15 minutes and said, oh my God, Sherry, you found your voice. four weeks later in February, I had four major publishers wanting to purchase my book proposal.

23:37Come on. Because I took ownership. I took ownership of what was most important. I got rid of all the answers. Let me tell you, the biggest thing when you take ownership is when you start to recognize when opportunities are actually distractions. Yes. Right? Yeah, because most everything on my to-do list was a distraction. And then once I secured the book deal, then what do you do? You go get the next most important thing, and then you add that to your top three. So in that ownership, it allows you to get focused. It allows you to understand where your real value is. And then it goes back to that stop trying to prove you're worthy and just know you're worthy, but it gets rid of the distractions.

24:25Here's the big one. It's so easy to say no when you're clear on what you're taking ownership of. People go, well, I don't know how to say no. You know how to say no. You're just not clear on what to say no to. Yes, Sherry. Oh my goodness. So one of the things I live my life by, and I've been doing that in this season, especially like one of my little mantras that helps me keep my head and my heart straight is simplify to amplify. So the less like, you know, remember you're talking about you want to like sit in the soil and just like look at your plants and stuff. So for me, like the gardening analogy, if you prune something, if you prune this beautiful bush or tree or plant back, it looks like, oh my gosh, you're taking everything away.

25:08No, the energy is getting focused, right? Just like what you were saying. And so what is left becomes so beautiful and strong and rich and robust. So it's that when I read that you slashed your to-do list by 80%, I was like, yes, Sherry, yes, yes. Amplify to Amplify. And the result, my goodness, it feels good. And I just want to underscore what you said because it's so right on. It's so wise around, you know, it's not that you don't know how to say no. It's like when you know what's important, it's a lot easier to say no to what's not. And that discernment and that courage to say, these are the three things that are the most important to me at this stage and this season in my life.

25:52And then you can say bye-bye to everything else. With love. With love. With love. But it increases our productivity. We're so concerned about having this massive to-do list. And then we're so concerned with when I check everything off and I can give myself a pat on the back. But were you productive or were you just busy? Did you just burn yourself out, but you didn't get anything done? Did you move the needle an inch or did you go a mile? And so when we get more concerned with productivity instead of busy, and I talk about that in the book from the Midwest, right? It's all about work ethic. But we work for the sake of working.

26:32Like we work for the sake of working versus what is it all about? We're supposed to put ourselves in a position where we can enjoy the fruit of our labor, but we're just always laboring. We're just always working. Yes. And I think also too, because you and I are of the same era where we remember, right? Before social, we remember before these things were like everywhere. And I was talking to Josh about this. I'm like, I'm kind of done with this thing. Like I'm legitimately done with it. There's so much more to life outside of these screens and outside of social. And it's like, again, another underpinning for your book.

27:13It's like, you don't have to spend all of your time focused on that career and trying to get that approval and that appreciation and that recognition and that significance from a place where it's never gonna come from. Not in a fulfilling way. Yeah. Can I, I'm going to tell you something real quickly to that point about like social media. And I'm so proud of my daughter. She came to me and my husband two days ago and she had this laundry list of items. It was probably about 25 things. And at the top of it, it said, what I do instead of my phone. And she sat down with us and she said, God, you know, she's virtual learning at this time.

27:52And so she said, mom and dad, I don't want to be on my phone. I don't want to just, and it's a habit. I just pick it up. So she came up with a list of like 30 things that she can do instead of getting on her phone. So she's like, I can paint, I can read, I can work on my room. And so proactively, she at 13 is like, I'm over it. Like I'm over this phone. Like there's so many other things that I want to do. And I mean, it was little things like she said, I want to sit quietly and just enjoy the moment. I was like, yes. Secretly, I'm like, yes. And I love that she came to that on her own, right? Like she, on her own.