411 - To Anyone Feeling Lost & Unhappy In Life, Find Meaning with Liz Gilbert

26:39And if they did what they were told, their lives became in alignment and they suffered less and they were more connected to each other and life became a kinder experience, right? So they taught it as two-way prayer. And Bill W., who founded AA, used to say that two-way prayer was the single most important tool that an addict could have in recovery, more than going to meetings, more than sponsorship, more than doing the 12 steps, although all of those were important too. You needed to have a direct conscious contact with the higher power of your own understanding, which cannot be stressed strongly enough because nobody will ever surrender to a God who is forced upon them.

27:16Okay. I want to talk about work and time and productivity because this has been like a big, big running theme in my life. And I'm curious how you think about work and time and productivity like at this point in the game. Has it changed over the past few decades? What's it look like now? Like for my own experience of life, like I know in my 20s and my 30s, I can see this now. I didn't necessarily see it then. In those ages and decades, I had the feeling it was very tied to my motivation and my ambition, all beautiful things. And I think partially that is true. But as I look back, I know a lot of it was fear.

27:57The fear of like needing to make it, needing to prove myself, wanting to never depend on anyone. Like there was so much, You know what I mean? Underneath there. You and me both. Uh-huh. And then as I've matured and as time has gone on, I've really started to question a lot of my own patterning. And, you know, and I, I've talked about this a lot, like how workaholic I can be. And in some ways, and this is the truth, because I love my work so much, I can get really, really lost in it. And so I don't want anyone, I'm like, leave me alone. Like, you know, just because you don't have my drive. You say workaholism, like it's a bad thing.

28:33Yes. And when, because it's such a rare thing to love what you do so much. you can get lost in it. But I do know that there are times when it is also an escape mechanism. Right. And it allows me to be in an area where, Hey, I can control the outcome or at least have more probability of like winning in it where all of these other areas I'm like, Oh, emotions, messy, la. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So same, same. So as I've gotten older though, and I think as the clock for me and my experience ticks and you know, Josh is much older than I am. like my parents, I almost lost both of them last year.

29:07Things like that, as you know, life events, circumstances, loss, grief, or the potential of it puts things in new perspectives. And for me, I started asking like, what the hell is all this for? And do I want to keep going at the level of 150 from 4am to, do you know what I mean? To keep doing that. So that's why, that's where all of this comes from because it's a really interesting question that myself and so many creatives that I know are just getting curious about? God, listen, you're going to have a difficult time finding two women who love their work more than us. And my work has saved my life so many times.

29:47And it was my first connection to the divine because from a very early age, when I was writing, I was talking like, this is really good. You know, like, this is good. I like what I'm doing. Like I like, and other people seem to like it as well. And it feels good to do this. And anyway, you know, there was so much that was wrapped up in it in my identity. I, I'm not ready to stop. I'm not ready to slow down. And, and I'm 55. And it's getting a little harder to be on the road as much as I've been my whole life because I'm also a road dog and a traveler, but I'm not ready to stop. And, and I think it's okay to love your work that much.

30:40I really do. Like, it's funny because we're, we're taught to be so productive, but then we're also taught to be ashamed of ourselves if we love our work as much as we do. I heard an interview with Michael Chabon once, the novelist, and he said, he's got five kids and I think four or five kids. And he said, look, writing books is great, but your books can't love you back. And I was like, but my books love me back.

31:07But my books love me back. They love me back. They love me into life. They bring me back into vitality. A couple of weeks after Rhea died, I started working on a novel because I needed to remember who I was without her in the world. And people can say like, you threw yourself into your work to avoid your grief, there's nothing you can do to avoid grief. Grief is coming for you. It knows your home address and you can't get out from under it. And like the grief was happening and the work was a place of, of sanctuary for me. Um, where I'm like, Oh, I'm also, I'm not just grieving widow. I'm also gifted novelist and I love to be with my gift, um, and to be present to it.

31:50The one thing I'll say about productivity, actually I'll say two things. When I was working on Big Magic, I put a message out on Facebook and this is back when we were all on Facebook and loving Facebook, going back to the social media aspect of things. And I said to everybody, because Big Magic is my book about creativity. And I said, what is the one obstacle in your life that all of you have that is preventing you from being able to be as creative as you want to be? And thousands of responses came flooding in. And I would say 95 % of those responses said, I don't have enough time. I'm so busy.

32:26My life is so busy. I don't have enough time. On Facebook. No irony there. Yes. On Facebook. Yep. Right. Yep. And I was like, do you guys know you're literally on a social media app right now? Like you're literally on at this moment, typing into a social media app that you don't have any time. So I'm going to call you all out on that right now. Not that I don't love that you follow me, but like, can you get really honest about how much of your life you're staring at your phone? And have you looked at the stats on Instagram of how much of your life you're staring at your phone? Could you write a novel in that many hours a week?

33:04And the other thing I always would say is that I don't think of myself as a particularly high energy person. I need a lot of sleep. I get overwhelmed very easily. But I have like three really good hours a day. You know, like if I get the right, if I go to sleep at the right time and I wake up between 5 and 6 a.m., those first three hours of the day, my brain is electric. And if I'm eating the right food and if I go to bed at the right time, and then the rest of the day I'm sort of like, you know, half-massed. But the question I always have for people is identify what the three good hours of the day.

33:43Everyone has like two or three pretty sharp, bright, electrified online, not on the internet, but like online hours of the day, who or what is currently eating that time? Take it back. Yes. Take that time back so that it's almost like pay yourself first, but it's give everybody else your garbage hours. They won't even notice, you know, like give everybody else the time. So for me, a really important part of productivity is my mornings are mine. You cannot have them. Like you cannot have them. You can have, you can have me like we set this thing for late in the afternoon. I'm like, I love you, Marie, but you're getting me at 15%.

34:31Absolutely. And I was like, when does this work for you? 100 % is mine. Yes. Right? And so that's like the thing about, again, taking back, especially for women, taking back that which you have poured into others. Glennon Doyle said so beautifully that she had a realization when all three of her kids were young that the only thing she had to do to be a writer was to go to bed at the same time her kids went to bed, which meant she had to give up the finish line reward of watching TV after they went to bed and staying up till 11 o 'clock and feeling like an adult and having the house be quiet. When they went to bed, she went to bed.

35:06She set her alarm for 4 a.m. and she gave herself two hours before they woke up that was hers. So there's this like stubborn demanding of pulling back some hours of the day that no one else is allowed to have and making those hours absolutely sacred. Yeah, I do it. And actually, you know, Josh and I have had some tumbles about this because like you, my morning is my magic time. and my brain is, it's like, I, I'm closest to the other side. I am closest to all of the sparkles. I'm closest to everything. And he's like, but what about our coffee in the morning? I'm like Saturdays, you know what I mean?

35:44Or there's certain times, but, and we've had this and he knows. And I'm like, look, you actually get a better Marie when I'm not resenting you because I'm sitting here with my coffee going, this is my time, dude. And like we, and again, we've been together so long that we have real talk 10, 10 all the time, you know, and as, as things go. And it's, it's just great though, because he's an amazing human and he is, I love him. He's so playful and he's so fun and he's so intuitive and he's so real. And, and, but what I love about us is we have these real conversations and I said, look, this is not about you.

36:17It's about me. And you'll see me when I'm doing my morning pages and I'm on my little ritual, you know, all my little things. But that is my creative time. And it is, it's like, I've had to fight for it sometimes because of my own internal messaging. Oh, if I was a better partner, you know, because he really quick we are to throw it away. Yes. He really needs me right now or da, da, da, da, da. And meanwhile, it's just a conversation. I just have to have a conversation, the real talk 1010 with like, Hey, no, there was, I wish I could remember her name, but I heard an, uh, I saw an interview with an older female visual artist.

36:54Actually, it was in her obituary. She said at one point, she had this huge awakening of realization that her solitary time had no value to anybody but herself because everybody else in the world valued her based on what they could get from her. So the only person to whom her solitude had value was her. and because it had no value to anybody else, nobody else had a vested interest in protecting it for her. And so that would be her job. Yes. Because nobody else has any reason to let you have solitude. Yes. Because what they want is what you can do for them. And so you have to fight for it. You have to fight for it.

37:41So you're, and I've, I said this on, uh, Letters from Love. It's like you're Liz freaking Gilbert. Like it's, it's just, you're incredible. Like I think Eat, Pray, Love, what? 14 million at this point, maybe higher. It's up at 30 million. 30 million. Jesus, that was an old stat. Yeah. How on earth do you decide what writing projects or speaking engagements or collabs or invitations? Like I, at certain points in my journey, I have sometimes used like a little device, like a filter question. is X getting me closer to whatever I like to call my primary project? It could be more freedom. It could be, you know, more dancing.

38:21It could be a particular creative project that I want to get done, a specific goal. Like, you know, you can fill in that thing, whatever that kind of thing that my heart really wants at this particular stage or season. And I would use that filter question to help me bat down, you know, 90 % of what was coming in. That was like a shiny object that maybe stroked my ego or maybe five years earlier in your career would have been a prize. Correct. But that's a hard thing to remember. It's like, just because your younger self would have died for the opportunity to do this doesn't mean that it suits you now.

38:56Yes. And you have to say no to those things a lot. Yes. So I'm curious how you navigate that. Like, do you have like a team of folks, let's say from the literary side or do you know what I mean? Like different folks who can process to a certain degree. And I know obviously things have to come to you because you're Liz and you get to decide how you'd like to spend your time and your energy. But I'm curious if you have any reflections on what that looks like. You know, I, I, um, I delete a lot of emails without responding to them. It's a gift I give to myself. I used to, in the early days of email, be like, I'm responding to every email.

39:32And now I'm like, absolutely. I have a permanent out of office message. Yes. Um, it's, and I re refresh it every month and sometimes change the language a little bit, but the, the out of office message that I have on my email says, please forgive delayed responses or none at all. Um, and, and now the reasons that I list are I'm trying to gain liberation from the robot overlords and not spend my life looking at screens. And that means I can't respond to everything. Um, and I'm always working on a new book and I'm always working on a new project. And, um, you know, so just, if you don't hear back from me, please be cool, you know?

40:12Um, and I go through my inbox every week and I delete things, um, without having the decency or the kindness to respond. If I, I could hire someone to do that or I could just delete the message. And I just delete the message. And it's, it's, it's one of the most empowering things that I've given to myself is like, you are not just, here's a rule. And it goes for personal life, family life, career life. Just because somebody wants a response from you doesn't mean they get to have one. That's not a good enough reason. Somebody wanting your response is not a good enough reason for you to stop what you're doing and respond.

40:56You don't, you'd actually don't have to. Um, so that's, that's a huge thing. Um, I still do more than I should. Um, but I get excited and I want to say yes to not everything, but there are things that I want to say yes to. Um, and I say, I don't have like a social life in the literary world. Like I, um, you and I are having dinner on Friday night with some people from Substack and that's the first time I'm going to say in like three years that I've been to something that you might call a party within my industry, um, with like my colleagues, you know, like I don't go to those, like I don't go to those because I need, if I'm going to write books, I have to be in bed at nine o 'clock and I can't go to those things and be in bed at nine o 'clock.

41:46I'm not interested in going to those things. So I say no to like a ton of social stuff. And I just hang with my very small group of people who I hang with all the time, my friends and neighbors. And then as far as writing projects go, that one is like, God, I don't even know how to explain it, the mysticism of it. But it's like, I'm listening. Like there's something that's trying to get my attention that wants me to collaborate with it. And like right now there's an idea that I've had for four or five years and I'm circling it and it's circling me and we're listening to each other and it's way too soon to begin, but I can feel that it's going to be the next, that it's going to be the next project.

42:29I actually love that. I need to do that. I want to talk to, cause that I tend to marinate on some ideas for a while. Like I remember when my agent was like, everybody wants a book from you. I'm like, yeah, but I'm not ready. Like the idea is not ready. The thing's not ready. And I have all these other little babies, you know what I mean? That I'm nourishing and giving life to. And there's a couple more that have been hanging around for a few years and I'm like, oh, I don't want to lose them. But it's like that nice little dance. I need to talk to some of my ideas and let them know I'm coming. You know, I sometimes have a team meeting with my ideas.

43:01Okay. And I mean, I'm such a pagan. and everything to me is animated with life and spirit. Oh, same, same. And, you know, so oftentimes people will ask me about, like, what do you do when you've got multiple ideas and you only have the one energy stream? And in that case, I mean, I'm like the president, and they're my joint chiefs of staff, right? They're coming to me with, like, and so I'll just say, like, what's your idea and how formed are you? because sometimes it's an exciting idea. But when I pin it down like that and say to the idea, what do you want me to do? You want me to give years of your life for what?

43:43And it's vague. Yes. And I'm like, okay, we'll come back when you're more formulated. Yes. Because right now there's an idea here that's pretty formulated. Yes. And it's ready to go. And so we're going to work on that. I don't work on two things at the same time with books. I don't have the energy for that. That's really cool. Yeah. So it sounds like if I'm hearing correctly, because I love talking about process, I just find it so fascinating. It's so interesting. It's so interesting. And it's so fun, especially because it is such, I think in both of our opinions, this cosmic, magical, mysterious process.

44:16So it's almost as if, okay, you're fully in, all in this project. Yes. When that one's signed, sealed, delivered, let's call it a book, pub, we know that there's the marketing dance that we all have to do to get something out into the world. how long typically passes before you're like, Oh, I've got another little baby on the conveyor belt. It's, it's on the conveyor belt. It's on the conveyor belt. You know, like I've got three conveyor, I've got three babies deep on the conveyor belt now, but the third and furthest away one probably won't be in the world for 10 or 12 years, you know, um, because it takes me such a long time to write these things and to create these things.

44:54But, but yeah, I like working. Yeah. You know, I always say I want to rest and then like a day of that, you know, a day of that's about enough. And then I'm like, okay, I'm like, my mind starts creating, like it wants to create. Yeah. Whenever I'm on vacation, like Josh and I were in Italy for the first time in several years, this, uh, just, um, earlier this summer. And it was like a week of, you know, just being in the sea and doing all the things that one does in Italy. And then I just got downloads, you know what I mean? And it wasn't like working on projects, like checking up on things or cleaning things.

45:26It was like, nope. Ideas. Yes. Ideas. Adding to the sheet, adding the inspoke. You know, I have like a Google doc that's like 70 pages about a project that you and I've actually talked about years ago having Indian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just like more in there and it's, I can feel her getting ready. You know what I mean? She's like, oh, okay. Now's the time. But, but that's, that's really cool. Okay. Shift. Let's talk hair. Yes. Yes. Let's talk about what inspired you to shave it off. Was there any part of you that was like afraid or after it was totally. Okay. And like, was it like regretful or was like, ah, okay.

46:02Yeah. Tell me. It was like, Why didn't I do this literally 20 years ago? So I've been dreaming about shaving my head for a really long time. I remember reading an article in the village voice, like in the nineties, like early nineties, like when Sinead O 'Connor was at her peak. And there was, there was like a gallery of photos of women with shaved and buzzed heads. And I remember thinking every single one of them looks amazing. Every single one of them looks amazing. And I remember one caption of one woman saying, it's so cleansing. I do it every week. And it's like going to the gynecologist and the dentist on the same day, which I still remember is like one of the funniest things I've ever heard anybody say.

46:38Um, and, and I have, I have difficult hair to make look the way that culture and family says pretty hair looks like I know, I know how to make it look nice. I know what I have to do to make it look nice. I know what it costs in time and money. And it's a lot. And I've been doing it for years and playing that game. And I've been getting increasingly resentful about like my one wild and wonderful and precious life is spent hours and hours and hours in a chair getting highlights and getting keratin treatments and getting blowouts and getting like just having somebody do it so that I look a certain way and can pass for something like whatever that thing is or can pull attention or can be seen as pretty or attractive or whatever it is.

47:31And so I went to a party in New York, I don't know, almost a year ago. And I was looking around and it was a bunch of people our age, 40s, 50s, 60s. And I was like, and this is New York. So this is like a liberal, you know, artsy sort of event opening kind of thing. And I'm looking around the room and I'm like, every single one of these men who are my age have their hair buzzed and they look great. Like they're a bunch of silver foxes. They've got really cool cropped hair. A lot of them had thinning hair. So they were like, I'm getting rid of it. I'm not dealing with this anymore. Um, you know, lined faces, weathered faces, handsome.

48:14They looked fantastic. Every one of the women, every one of the women had some version of silky, flowy, complex looking. and I can, no, because I can price it out, expensive hair. Right? And I was like, okay, I am facing, this is a choice moment in my life. I can complain about the different beauty standards for men and women in terms of aging and expectation of how you're supposed to present. Or I can just claim the entitlement that these men have and just do it. Like I can just take it. And it's something that I've done so many times in my life where I've been like, well, I can complain about how unfair this is about women, or I can just step into this space that men own and dominate it.

49:11And I'm going to do that again. like I'm going to do that like I did it as a writer I did it as a journalist I did it as a solo traveler I did it as somebody who claimed the entitlement of not needing to raise children like I'm like I'm taking like having my own money you know all of these things I was like I'm I'm taking this like I'm taking this and I'm also gonna stop doing Botox and fillers which I've been doing for years and which I loved because it made me look all dewy and fresh but I'm like who am I looking dewy and fresh for? Like who, like, why don't you be dewy? Like why? I am so, I can't tell you how much I want to get like a tattoo, like in Gothic thing that's like thug life, but it says hag life.

49:55Like I'm so, I'm like, I'm just going to go full hag life. Like, and I also thought, and around that time I spent a week with Byron Katie and Byron Katie's 83, 82 or 83, like white haired, heavily, you know, like, and it's radiantly beautiful and so captivating. And I just thought I had this, I mean, maybe this seems very elementary, but I had this thought of like, it is a fundamentally weird thing. It's a fun, a weird fear to be afraid of getting older. Yeah. Like that's a weird thing to be in, in resistance against like what is the fear like what is what if there isn't it what if there isn't a fear what if there just isn't what if you decide to not buy that story anymore um and what if i get to keep all my money now and what if i get to keep all my time now and what if i just go to walmart and get a 20 pair of clippers and that's the last money i'm ever going to spend on my hair and I buzzed my hair once a week over the toilet.

51:05What was the first time? Like, did you do it at home? I did it at home and my friend Shankari helped me because she used to be a punk in the 80s because I actually didn't know how to physically do it. Yes. Like, so I got a short haircut first. The other thing was every time I went to my hairdresser, who I love, and I would say, one of these days I'm just going to have you just shave this off. Like for years I've said that to her. So it was a fantasy. That was kind of like - For years. And she was like, well, let me just give you a really good short haircut. But a really good short haircut is really hard to maintain.

51:36Yes. It's harder to maintain than long hair. Yep. And I'm like, why are we just dicking around with it? Like, what if we just did it? What if we just did it? So yeah, my friend did it and she did the first half of it. And then I did the second half. And I think she took a video of me. Like when I did this, like one swipe across and then felt it and there's a video of me and I look like, and I'm like, it's amazing. Like this is the most, and I said, this is the most important thing I've ever done. Maybe a little hyperbole, but maybe not because like every day I love it. Like every day I wake up and I wake up and I'm like, oh, my hair's perfect.

52:19It is. Like I get out of the shower. I'm like, my hair's perfect. I get out of the bathtub. My hair is perfect. Yes. I jump into the river. My hair is perfect. I jump in the ocean. I come up. My hair is perfect. We're shooting in two minutes. My hair is perfect. Yes. Like there's no moment where there's no moment that I don't like it. And what I find really interesting is that women are like fascinated by it. Like they're drawn in and they, they get this like far away look of longing. And they're like, I wish I could do that someday. Like it's so out of reach. Like, it's like I have a villa in France and not just a$0 buzzed haircut, you know?

52:54Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other thing that every single woman says is, I would do that, but I have a weird shaped head. Now, listen, it can't be true. It can't be true that 100 % of women have weird shaped heads. What is the storyline about weird shaped heads? Yeah. And what is a weird, like - What is a weird shaped head? Like, what is so - They're like, I would do that, but I have a weird shaped head. You have a good shaped head. I'm like, I have a head. It's shaped like a head. It's shaped similar to your head. It's oblong and it's got ears sticking out of it. I don't know what it was. What is a weird shaped head?

53:24So it's been the coolest. And here's the thing. I waited so long to do it because I had to wait till I felt like I was post vanity, you know, where I was like, am I post vanity yet? Like, am I ready to just give up? Like, am I, am I like hanging it up? Am I like done trying to be pretty? Am I done? And I was like, I'm willing to give that up to be free because freedom is my foremost virtue. Number one value in the world. Freedom. Freedom. So I'm like, all right, I'll give up pretty for freedom. And I'll sacrifice. And I'm going to look old and like a weird hag, but I'm going to do it. And then I didn't.

53:58I was like, I'm good. You look amazing. I really like it. I actually think it's better than my weird blonde hair. Anyway, I love it. And that's the story of shaving my head. And how long has it been? It's been almost a year. I can't imagine any reason to ever have hair again. Kind of amazing these, like, I mean, you have so many gorgeous adventures and unfoldings and happenings in your life, but I'm thinking, okay, letters from love about a year, head shaving about a, I don't know. It just feels to me like there's some - Maybe there's a Saturn return thing happening or something. I don't know.

54:32I think there's some gorgeous evolution expansion thing, freedom liberation thing. That's where I'm going to hold it in that. Hey, if you're ready to start living a life true to you, grab my free audio training called How to Get Anything You Want. It's in the link right below this video. So whether you want to publish a book, buy a house, start a business, travel the world, now is your time. So get this free audio training at marielovesyou.com slash get anything. Or if you're watching this episode on video, scan the onscreen QR code now. Let's talk about one of my favorite topics, money. Okay.

55:07Money. Okay. 30 million copies of Eat, Pray, Love. And that's just one of your, how many books? 10. Yeah. Let's just, wherever we want to go with money and creativity and freedom and how you think about money these days and whether or not that has changed. It has. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I've been worried about money my whole life. My parents sat me down when I I was eight with a spreadsheet and told me the exact amount of money I was going to need to raise in order to go to college. And I remember going to school the next day, I was in third grade and this pit of anxiety in my stomach that I don't think lifted until a few years ago that was like, how am I going to come up with that kind of money?

55:55I'm eight. I did it. You know, And then I was always super self-reliant and never had anybody support me even when I was a waitress and a bartender. I always loved saving money and accumulating money and I knew that it meant freedom. But I was never not thinking about it in an anxious way and running through, like even when I had a ton of it. Like after Eat, Pray, Love, suddenly I had a ton of money, but I was always worrying it, like worry beads in my mind. Was it worrying that it was going to go away? And I'm curious, did you start working with like a money manager? Like, did you have anyone around you that you could trust?

56:40These are the kinds of questions like, yes. I had an accountant who I trusted dearly. Um, and, and he was just such a godsend to me. And, um, I mean, I knew, I kind of knew how to manage money because my parents are obsessed and anxious about money and they know how to manage money. So I knew how to like, you know, I knew how to put it in the right places and do the right things with it. what I didn't know was how to stop feeling frightened. Just a general aura of fear all around it. Like, I don't know, you know, I'm looking back at it now and being like, is it that there won't be enough? I think it's a scarcity anxiety thing.

57:21And that was a big pressure in our household was just like, you have there, you know, like there will never be enough. You have to save more. You have to save more. You have to save more. You have to save more. That's also true in our society. I mean, just that I feel like from my observation, we just live in this world that's taught us that there's not enough of love. Of anything. Exactly. Especially money. Especially money. So I had that. And then the other thing that happened is I'm such a ferocious blackout codependent that when I got money, I started wildly giving it away. And I think part of it was like, I couldn't bear, I can't bear to see anybody not get anything they want or need.

58:03So I became kind of like a fairy godmother, just giving everybody everything that they wanted and needed, which had mixed results. Um, sometimes really beautiful results, sometimes really destructive results. Um, and, and then my relationships have always been really expensive. Um, my divorces are expensive. My, like I pour, you know, I pour into people, you know, so I poured I poured a great deal of myself away into the people who I loved and called that love. And when I came into 12-step recovery five and a half years ago, my sponsor said to me a year in, I'm not going to be able to keep working.

58:47You're going to love this, Marie. I'm not going to be able to keep working with you if you don't get money sober. And I was like, what do you mean by Money Sober. And she said, you're still trying to manipulate people and buy love and control people with money. But most of all, you're trying to buy love with money. And you might as well just throw your whole recovery and sobriety, like wadded up and throw it over a cliff if you're going to keep doing that, because there's a desperation in it. And so I set out to get money sober for the first time in my life. And I found somebody to work with. So I'd worked with financial advisors, but I found a financial therapist who was both an accountant and a social worker who worked with people's money trauma.

59:38So it wasn't about, I'd always been able to manage the money from like a logistical standpoint, but not from an emotional standpoint. and we sat down and she did like a two hour long intake with me and went through my history with money my family's history with money like what all of these relationships were where is my terror where is my trauma what what are my goals and and then she wrote me like a story about myself that was like Liz's money story and I read it and I started crying because I was like this has been such a huge trauma in my life and this person totally gets it. And so we have quarterly meetings and we go over my numbers.

1:00:23And she also said to me, she went through, I gave her two years of all of my back everything so she could get an idea of where my money was going. And she said, do you know, she would call me while she was doing it and say like, there's a$6 ,000 check. Who's this person? And I'm like, I would be like, I don't know. Like I was writing these enormous checks and forgetting that I had done it. Every single fundraiser online, every single appeal that anybody had, I was like, here, take it. You know, like, and part of that was the low self-worth of I'm not allowed to have anything. And part of it was just like, I, I'm personally responsible for holding the world because I have a hyper sense of responsibility for everybody.

1:01:07And so when she was done doing the assessment, she said, do you know what percentage of your money over the last two years you have given away to people? Not necessarily just charity, but giving to friends, helping people out, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, no. She said, would you like to take a guess? And I was like, I don't know, like 25 %? And she said, you have given 82 % of your money over the last two years away to other people. Did you know that? It's okay if that's what you want to do, but did you know that you were doing that? And I did not know that I was doing that. I was blind to my own.

1:01:45And that's what addiction looks like is you're doing stuff behind your own back that you don't even know you're doing because it's so subconscious. And so she was like, let's talk about that. And let's talk about how much money do you actually want to give away to people? And how much do you want to keep and save? Are you allowed to keep any and save any? And so we settled on 15 % that I give away. And so the funnest part of our conversation every quarter, and then the rule is I'm not allowed to give any money away until I run it by her. And so I have a break, a breaking system to prevent me. And then she reviews the quarter.

1:02:25And then the big reveal is how much money I'm allowed to give away. She's like, you've got this much money that you're allowed to give away. And it's so fun at that point because I know I'm not overgiving. And the other thing I said was I want to pay myself back for everything that I gave away and lost in all of my romantic relationships. Tell me more about that. Meaning as more earnings come in or as more money flows in, you want to, and let me know if I'm getting this right, because this is all fascinating to me. Yeah. I thought you'd be into that. Yeah. I love it. Reclaim it. And let's say, whether we put it in savings or investment or some form of the nest egg that is like, this is continuing to support Liz, her current, her future, and anything else that she may want to flow towards as we move forward in life.

1:03:11Okay. Yes. Yeah. And it's a living financial amends that I'm making to myself for the decades that I spent not believing that I was allowed to keep what I had earned. Wow. Wow. Here's the thing. Ever since I started working with this person, I don't think about money anymore. So money was on my mind all the time in a worried way. Yes. But now I've got what we would call in the rooms, G-O-D, good orderly direction. Yes. And she gives me a pie chart every month and she's like, here's your percentages of what your, and it looks, she's always like, your numbers look good. It's even, you're balanced.

1:03:48You're spending a little bit on yourself, a little bit on others. You're saving some and you're giving some away. Um, and, and you're not holding yourself responsible for saving the entire world anymore. Okay. Let me ask you this question. This may not be in an area where you're like, I give zero. You know what I mean? This may be a zone where Liz Gilbert's like, no, don't care. Not interesting. One of the things in this topic of money that's been super interesting to me is just kind of like playing and gaming out, how long do I believe that the physical vessel of Marie Forleo is going to be on the planet?

1:04:22Doing her thing, whatever her thing may evolve into being and whether that entails creative projects, philanthropic projects, traveling projects, joy projects, dance projects, all the things that we can't even begin to imagine that may unfold in the next few decades, hopefully, God willing, that I'm still here. And I love talking with my, I have a financial woman who helps me keep track of all the things. And we have so much fun because I love to run potential scenarios by her and like, oh, I'm thinking about X, Y, or Z, or what if I wanted to do this? Or, you know, come back from Italy. And of course I have downloads of like, I'm thinking about this.

1:05:00What I love is that knowing my numbers for me is helping me heal. Remember we were talking earlier about so much of my twenties and thirties are like running and it's so fear-based and it's like, I have to, have to, have to, because I don't think I'm going to have enough to survive. Scarcity, scarcity, scarcity. Now knowing my numbers helps me start to unpeel that onion and start to find a little bit of peace and freedom and relaxation. Cause I know in me, it's like, oh, the program's still running me. right. I'm chasing, I'm chasing, you know what I mean? And like, so I have a couple of very dear friends who are like, what you gonna do with it all?

1:05:37You know what I mean? Like, oh, you got holes in your socks? I'm like, oh yeah, I do. You know, like, I think you can get new socks. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just now starting to get into the place of going, am I allowed to enjoy what I've created. Anyway. No, I love that. And are you? Oh, yes. We'll talk more at dinner. But I was curious. I didn't know if you guys, if you play with that number at all of like - How long am I going to live? Yeah. But looking at that through the lens of finances and saying, oh, if Liz ever, you don't want to slow down and you want to keep working, but should you ever, and this was my other question about this as well.

1:06:17How does money play a part in what you decide to say yes to? Or if somebody rolls up and it's a speaking engagement or an invitation, do you know what I mean? Of like, God, do I want to do this from my heart? Just because I'm like, I actually really like this project or I like this audience and I would love to come speak to them for free or whatever it is versus what you actually say yes to that does continue to have abundance flow to you in the form of money. I just got back from teaching. I teach a, there's a workshop that I teach that's like a weekend long creativity and self-examination and spiritual workshop.

1:06:49And I can make more money giving a 45 minute corporate speech than I can make in three days of like full on six hour days with hundreds of people, deep engagement. But I love doing that. I love doing the workshops. Like I'm making money from it, but it's like, yeah, comparison, you know, um, I would rather do that several times a year and be able to watch people's unfolding and, and be like the doula to the thing that they're finding in themselves and have the intimacy and the one-on-one connection with that room. Yes. Then just go talk to Coca-Cola. Yes. To a bunch of executives, which I'll do.

1:07:31Yes. But it's because those are people too. Yeah. But, but I really love being able to do that. And does knowing your numbers help you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That I'm, that I'm allowed, that I'm allowed to do that. Yeah. I always, I love talking about this with, especially with women. Cause I have a lot of my own colleagues who are like, yeah, but I have to keep them. Like, but do you really, do you, we always ask our, you know, each other, but do you really, are we running an old program that's been there for, do you know what I mean? 20s and 30s, they have to have to have to, or do we know what's happening financially and in your money life where you can start to make perhaps newer, braver choices that are Really, really aligned with your heart.

1:08:09Yes. Anyway. I love it. I love it. It's good stuff. Okay. So for people watching right now who want to achieve their dream life, but it feels so far away from how they're living right now, is there a simple framework to start creating or living into that new, perhaps truer version of themselves? It's about, I think, getting greedy with your time. And this is something we've been touching on a lot in this conversation. And so I'm glad that we can circle back to it again. So my favorite poet is a poet named Jack Gilbert, who I talk about a lot, no relation to me, who died recently and lived a very free life.

1:08:55Freedom was a rare and high value for him above anything else, including fame and success and hustling and promoting his books. And he would routinely disappear for years at a time and go live in Greece on a mountaintop in a shepherd's hut and just watch the light change and write poetry and walk. He lived in the mountains of Japan for a while. He would just vanish into nature to be alone with the voices that only he could hear. And toward the end of his life, he wrote this poem and he'd gone back to Italy and he was living in the middle of nowhere on the top of a mountain. And in the poem, he's like bought a fish from a local fisherman and he's preparing his dinner with a tomato and a fish and an onion.

1:09:43And he's living in an old shepherd's hut with a lit fire and he's making his food. And he's having a conversation with God. And God is asking him all these questions about, why are you like this? I gave you like Florence and Rome and London and you choose to be here in the middle of nowhere, like in a stone hut. I gave you a world full of women and you choose to be here alone. I gave you the opportunity to be incredibly successful and well-known and you kept going away from it to come and be alone. And the whole time he's talking to God, he's just preparing his fish and then he prepares his fish and he sits outside by himself and he's watching the birds.

1:10:22And God says, why are you so stubborn? And he says, I'm not stubborn. I'm just greedy. Get greedy about your time. You know, and this is a thing that women are never taught. Or if the word greed is used, it's about hoarding more and more material things, which will not do it in terms of your satisfaction. Your soul is greedy for something and start getting greedy in that way of like, you can't have, greedy to me means you can't have this. Like you can't have this. Like the reason I don't live with anybody anymore is because I'm greedy for my mornings, for my quiet evenings, for my bath time, for my own food.

1:11:06You can't have it. I'm not giving it to you. And I know that for a lot of people, life is so real and so intrusive and you've got so many commitments and obligations, and you've been trained as a woman that what will make you a good woman is to only give until you literally die. And where in your life can you take some of it back? And can you start to get greedy? That's how it begins. Do you have a secret dream? Is there anything that you've wanted to do or be that hasn't come on to the main stage quite yet? I just want to be a swamp witch. I just want to be a hag. I just want to be a weird old lady.

1:11:49And that's coming in time. I'm still out in the world a lot. And I have a big life of people who I love. But what my secret dream is, is deep solitude. Deeper and deeper and deeper levels of solitude. next summer I'm doing this darkness retreat. Have you ever heard of that? No. It's one of those things. Sometimes I hear about something and I'm like, well, I guess I have to do that now. And somebody I knew did it. And I was like, like I find my whole body leaning in and I'm like, what, what, what, what did you do? It's this place in Oregon where you go in the mountains and they have these little cabins and they put you in a cabin for four days in pitch dark and silence.

1:12:38And I'm doing that because I'm greedy for that experience of what I will see in that deep solitude and deep darkness. It's like sort of going into the cave and coming out four days later. I did a future self meditation once and I saw myself living in my late 60s on the side of a mountain in Costa Rica. And I was so cool looking. It was before I shaved my head and I saw myself with the shaved head and it was all white. And like my nose had just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, like, and I'd gotten really like sinewy and muscly and brown and spotted. And I looked like a hawk. and I saw myself just sitting with these vivid bright blue eyes alone.

1:13:27And I said in my meditation to her, what do you do all day? And she said, we talked to God. And I said, what about all the people? And she said, we left them all behind. And it was one of the most exciting things I'd ever seen in my entire life was the glee in her face. We left them all behind. So that is my secret dream to become a crone, hag, old hawk sitting on the edge of a mountain talking to God all day alone. Absolutely perfect and stunning and exciting. I love it. Me too. Oh, I love it so much. Cackle, cackle, cackle. I'm like everything in me is like, I'm doing cartwheels all around us and pom-pom and high kicks and everything.

1:14:17Liz Gilbert, I continue to adore you, love you, respect you. Thank you so much for making the time to be with us today. I'm so excited for all the goodness coming. I'm so excited to continue. I need to do more of my letters from love practice because there's a lot more that I think - Every day there's something for you there. Something for me there. You just go claim it, get greedy about it. And I could not love you more, Marie Forleo. And I always love talking to you and being with you. And now we're going to go eat some Italian food, right? Yes, please. That's what you promised. it's happening we'll see you soon everyone bye everybody we love you