433 - The Truth About Menopause EVERY Woman Needs to Hear with Tamsen Fadal

0:00There was a time where my hair was like breaking off, which is why I kept going shorter. My cheek is on the disgusting bathroom floor. I felt my heart racing. I could hear it in my ears. And I'm like, what is going on? Like, am I going to pass that? What's happening? I was like, I'm going to cut someone. And my husband goes, what? Hey, congratulations. So for everybody, we are talking today about Tamsin's book, How to Menopause. It's fantastic. Thank you. You did such an incredible, which is not a shock because you're such a pro. You're kind. No, I'm honest. I had fun with it though. You know, like I, I spent so many years being a journalist.

0:34I was like, oh, it's research. And that's really, you know, I had a good time. I had a good time writing it. So what wasn't probably a good time was November 19th, 2019. That was not good. That was not good. Tell us about the moment that really changed everything for you. Like walk us through who you were, what was happening in your life and what happened at that fateful day. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was clipping along pretty good. You know, life was good. I was in a new relationship. I was working, worked the evening news for years. How long were you a journalist for? I'm trying to think. I think, I think again, it was like, I was a journalist for like 25 years, but I think in New York about 15 or 16 years.

1:14So a long time. Yes. It might even be longer than that. Maybe 20 in New York, but 25 overall. So it was, that was my career. That's what I knew. You know, go in and that's how we met. I was working at CBS in New York city. And that's what I was doing when I first came here. So I had started doing the evening news where I basically, you know, put New Yorkers to sleep every night. And I was sitting there between commercial break this night around 1030. And all of a sudden I got this feeling. And if you know this feeling, you just know the feeling that it comes from inside. And all of a sudden everything is like sweat, head, underarm, boob sweat everywhere.

1:50And I felt my heart racing. I could hear it in my ears. And I'm like, what is going on? Am I going to pass that? What's happening? um I said if I fall over somebody catch me because we were on kind of high stools in the new studio and the sports guy goes hey um maybe you should get off the set and just like sit this one out and so he walked me off the set and I went to the ladies room and I just literally just hit the floor and everything cool I need my body to touch everything my face my cheek is on the disgusting bathroom floor and I thought what the hell is like what is going on and I never forget the two like my producer and the sports guy are like peeking through the door are you okay I go yeah, I'm good.

2:25My dress is all high. It was just awful. And, um, I got up 20 minutes later, fine, go home. Um, and then, you know, that next week I felt like something was happening. Like, I don't, is it blood? Is it, was I, I don't know what's going on with me. And, um, I went to what my, talked to my therapist about what had happened. And she's like, you know, you're really anxious. You've gone through all this stuff, maybe Lexapro. So I started that and I'm like, I'm not really an anxious person. Like I'm hyper, but I'm not really anxious. And, uh, I did blood work eventually. And I got a note in my patient portal that said in menopause, any questions?

3:00That was it. So helpful. In menopause, any questions? Like you let me know if you need anything. Okay. How old were you at this time? So I was 19. I was 48 years old. Okay. So you're 48 years old. You had this, like, did you, were you freaking out when that happened? Like, yes. What the is going on with me? Well, I thought, am I having a heart attack? Yes. Am I, I didn't, I did everything like in my head. I'm like, oh my God. And what was leading up to that and what had happened a little earlier that evening was, and it had happened a couple of different times, but I'd look at a word. So I'd look at some word, you know, like how, and I'd be like, I'll just skip it.

3:37It couldn't, it wouldn't come out of my mouth. Like in the teleprompter, you would see it. Yeah, in the teleprompter, I'd look at it and I couldn't do recall. Like I couldn't recall how to even say the word, but I knew I recognized it. And that had been happening and I'm like, it's stress, it's stress, it's stress, everything's stress. But you know, I look back, periods were erratic and crazy out of control. Every sign that this is what was going on was there, but I didn't know those were those signs. Okay, I have this question for you because this is really important. I think that we all discuss and I've been trying to tell every person that I can who's like in their twenties, in their thirties, because I started experiencing crazy and I would talk to Josh about it.

4:18And I, you know, and I love Josh. We just celebrate, we were talking like, we just celebrated 22 years together, but he's also a man. You know what I mean? And he doesn't know. So he's like, babe, you're stressed. You're just so stressed. You're so stressed. And again, not really the most Zen person in the world. So on some level, which is how we connected so long ago. Exactly. I was like, well, okay, that makes sense. Maybe he's right. And I know he loves me. So he wasn't trying to belittle. No, but I'm curious, when did you start? And did you ever start having this internal mind log, which was my hint?

4:51I don't feel like myself. That, that is like the syndrome that it's a thing. Yeah. Like I don't feel like myself. I don't feel like myself. I don't feel like myself. And, and that was the conversation I would have mostly with Josh. And he's like, but you always say that. I'm like, no, I don't like, it's a different, it's a different, I don't, the other thing is like, Oh, I feel, these are the other words. I feel stressed. I got a lot going on. I'm not, I don't feel like myself. I've never said that before. And I did. I don't feel like myself. How long though? How long before the November 19th, 2019?

5:22I'm just curious to hear. Well, you know, I went through my divorce and I went through a divorce in my early forties. And so everything that was going on for those years, I attributed to that. And I was like, Oh, my hair's falling out. Like it's thinning. Like there was a time where my hair was like breaking off, which is why I kept going shorter and thinning, which is for me, I'm Italian and Lebanese, like my hair doesn't thin. Totally. No, I can't get rid of it. It's everywhere. And so that was happening. And I'm like, that's a divorce. It's a this, this, that. But where I knew I wasn't feeling like myself is that I was getting up on the anchor desk and it was probably three or four, maybe five years before.

5:57And I wasn't confident. I was nervous every time I got up there. And I would be like, oh, thank God. thank God the show's done because I didn't want to have a conversation like this where I wasn't prepared for the next sentence. Like I couldn't trust that I could complete that conversation. That's when I didn't feel like myself because that's what I know how to do. I just, I wanted to say that because if anyone listening or watching right now, um, and you know, the vast majority of our audience, uh, identifies as women, but if it's a guy, we love our men. We love everybody. Everybody's got a great heart.

6:29You're welcome here. But if any woman in your life or person in your life starts saying those words, right? Like if someone you love is saying, I don't feel like myself, what's wrong? I, there's something wrong with me. I don't feel like myself and there's nothing ostensibly wrong. It's like pay attention and validate them. Cause the most frustrating thing in the world for me was, and again, honestly, I obviously love Josh so much, but he was like, you always say that. I'm like, no, I don't like, talk about rage. Talk about rage. Another thing though. I didn't have rage. Neither did I. I can have a temper if I, you know, if you get me fired up.

7:02Yes. But I didn't have that click. No. Yeah. It's different. It's murderous. I'm like, if people don't watch out right now, like I could cut a, you know, it's like, it's crazy. I was like, I'm going to cut someone. Yes. And my husband goes, what did you just say? I know. And obviously we just, obviously we would never do that. But We're being honest about the thoughts that run around in our head that feel very, very, very unlike us. But those are real thoughts. And women have felt that and don't know what to do with that. And I think that that's where men and or anybody else come into the conversation.

7:40And I've really watched this as the conversation has, you know, has started to progress a little bit, is that I am seeing husbands or boyfriends or partners or brothers or, you know, say, like, how can I support? Which I can't wait to hear more of that. Because I think it's a really big deal. It's a really big deal. And I will say this too, because again, I'm speaking from my own experience. Dosh was always also trying to support me, but didn't know how. And I didn't understand what was happening inside my own body. So there's two places I want to go. First, I want to go to all the money I wasted on a bunch of tests that told me.

8:15And then I want to go to a huge thank you for your documentary, which I want to talk more about because, um, Josh and I watched that together and it felt like that was a clicking point for him because I was like, look, I can tell you all this. And we all know this with our partners. You can talk with your partner until they're blue in the face, but they have to hear something from someone else or watch it or see a book or what that's the only way we all do that. Sure that it's correct. That's right. That's right. So first though, you know, I think it was probably in my late thirties when I started just really doing a deeper dive on my health.

8:52And it was more honestly from a perspective of, you know, me, I'm like, I want to optimize like longevity. I want to be the best. It's like my type A overachiever to the next level, right? Many of us can identify with that. So anywho, I just kept hearing, okay, your hormones are great. Your hormones are great. And because I'd never really had an education on that, I just took everyone at face value, you know, and as normal, it's all normal. And I was like, okay, it's all normal. And some of my first signs that was not right. I'm Italian American. All of a sudden gastro issues, including out of nowhere, it was like, are you celiac?

9:32I'm like, are you kidding me? I've been not even possible and bred my entire life. Like unbelievable. Yes. And I didn't know that changes in our microbiome. I did not know that gastro issues, all this stuff. I'm like, what is going on? And your stomach is like, you eat and it goes like this. Yes. And you have pain. Yes. I know. I never had it either. We had pizza Friday nights. Every Friday night, my father made homemade pizza. Now I'm like, it will twist me into a pretzel, honestly, to have that. Yes. So again, I want to say these things out loud. So for all of our listeners, if you happen to be a little pre the stage that we're talking them out and, and you're just stuff's going on with your body and your emotions.

10:13And you're like, what is happening to me? You need to pick up a book like how to menopause because it's going to help you. It could honestly save your sanity and your life. And I do not, that is not an overstatement. Thank you. And your time and your money too. Yes. Because let's talk about those tests. Yeah. Well, you know, what's interesting. I actually just did a screening last night of the documentary and one of the questions that kept coming up cause we do a Q and a afterwards and it was a virtual screening and it was about hormones cause we do like different ones. And this one kept coming up about asking about tests.

10:41And here's the issue when you're in perimenopause and you're in this timeframe and you're looking for hormone tests, your hormones are all over the place. Yeah. So today it could look what one thing in two, three weeks, it could look like something else. And I, I, um, wanted to make sure that we were right about it. Cause there are a lot of tests that are being offered out there. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't do blood work and see where you are. And there's look, I have very low vitamin D. They always are checking that. Right now where I'm a post-menopausal, which I just say menopause, cholesterol levels have changed.

11:10I never had high cholesterol. Now my cholesterol has changed. I'm like, what? That's, you must have my tests mixed up with somebody. So tests are important for some different markers, but perimenopause, the symptoms, what we're talking about are the ones to look at. And that really is how most doctors will diagnose that. It will not be because of a blood test. And that comes from doctors. Absolutely. And I want to say this and I want to also go back to the cholesterol thing because I've gone through this little journey too. So one of the learnings that I've made, which was really helpful for me and for all this time, literally for years, it was like, oh, you have to have your hormones balanced.

11:47That's some bullshit. There is no such thing. Nope. There is no such thing. So everyone possibly again, that's like, great. We've talked about health and optimizing health a lot on this show. I am all for those tests, all for all the things. but when it comes to hormones specifically, it is based on symptoms. Yes. You know, and, and this was interesting. So I worked, I started working with a new hormone doctor. I think it was maybe October of last year of 24. And one of the things I love that she said to me, she's like, Hey Marie, I'm looking at your numbers. Cause she wanted to know, but I knew it was bullshit.

12:24And she wasn't telling me that like, we're going to base anything. So like, I'm just curious to see what's what. So that as we possibly try different things, we can start to understand how you feel best and just, just look at everything, little dashboard. And I loved that she said to me, cause she's like, so your estrogen looks like X, Y, or Z. It's like actually really high. She's like, but that's not necessarily how you feel best. And I was like, it was such a light bulb moment for me. And especially too, cause years earlier, and this is no surprise that it was like, you know, some folks would say like, wow, your testosterone is really high.

13:00I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm like, that's me. You know, like, I don't see a problem. It's always been, it's always been like, that's just who I am. But it was really such a helpful frame. It is a great frame. Do you know what I mean? So that none of us are looking. And then this was another insight. And I don't know if you've come across this too, where it was like, Hey, sometimes all of these averages, whether it's around cholesterol, whether it's around hormones, they can be so skewed towards people that are unwell that the whole entire norms and averages are completely and, and off. You're like, you don't want to base yourself on that.

13:37And I just say most of those tests have been done on men for a very long time. So like, please be aware. And that's what we're fighting for constantly is the fact that this research, we need research on women and especially women at this age. I want to go back to what you were saying about, um, in your twenties or thirties, because it's never too early to start looking for some of this stuff, you know, um, menopause, perimenopause that, that timeframe can be up to 10 years of some of this fluctuation, not meaning that you're going to be miserable for 10 years, but, but awareness is really important.

14:06I wish that there were a baseline at 35 years old where, you know, you say like, Hey, start looking for some of these symptoms. Cause there's a list of 30 plus symptoms. Yes. Any of these just kind of keep an eye on and let me know if you're seeing them next time you come in, or if you're seeing too many, make an appointment. Because I think that that's where we miss, we miss that for women. We know to do that when it comes to mammograms. We know to do that when it comes to colonoscopies. We have all these baseline numbers when we should be doing these kinds of tests, but with something that hopefully, if you're lucky enough to go through, how we not mention that to women when we're sitting in there and, you know, and, and so that part of it past the reproductive years just kind of falls off the, falls off the timeline.

14:48line. And that's, you know, that's what we have to fight for. I think that's such a great idea. Like imagine in your early thirties, there's like that 34 or 36 symptoms. It's like, just have a peek at this. Just see, just see any of this starts happening. And you start having that conversation in your head. Like, I don't feel like myself. I kind of feel weird. When you hear those words, like really, yes, pay attention. Cause I feel like I suffered for so long and I thought I was going bonkers. It's crazy. Like so many different things through my mind. And oh, let me tell you this. This was one of the most fun things for me.

15:20Fun things for me. When I got my first little Estradoil patch, my little film, I couldn't believe it. I thought it was - How you were different? How you felt? O-M-G. I know. One day, I went from going like, am I going to wind up in an orange jumpsuit because I've murdered someone to like, holy shit, Marie's back. Oh my God. I like myself again. Like, what happened? Honey, I love you again. I know. I know that doesn't happen for everyone. It doesn't. That was my experience. No, but I absolutely believe it. I mean, I think it's a lot of things too. And this is what I really believe. I really believe that if you are aware of what's going on when you go into this and you don't feel so confused and you don't feel so alone and you feel like you're taking charge of your body because you have knowledge, it's so much better.

16:09And if you can't do that, which a lot of women have not been able to, because we didn't even know what to look for. That's when you're like kind of in the dark trying to figure out what's happening and feel embarrassed because you don't even know how to explain it, except I don't feel like myself. I don't feel like myself. And I will say this for, because we do have a lot of type A overachiever type humans that can be also extremely, you feel, I at least felt weak. Of course. I feel anger about myself. Yes. And it's like, what's wrong with me? I can't hack it anymore. And then you have the absolute avalanche of really wonderful thoughts.

16:46You're over the hill. You've peaked. It's all going downhill for life, right? It's yours are behind me. You wish I was who I was back then. Yes. It's interesting. I really actually love that you say that. So I went, I think it was when I was, it was like in 2018, maybe 2017, I guess. And I started coming up against this phrase, now what? I kept going like, now what? I don't know. Like, are we like, what, what is next? Like I couldn't figure it out. And I was having that feeling of like, my best years are behind me. How do we, what is the second chapter? Is there like, what is that? And I couldn't get, I just was hitting this wall constantly thinking like, wow, this is, this is age.

17:26Like, this is it. This is what they all warned me about. They all said it was coming. But what I did, I didn't believe it. I never thought I'd get here. And, um, but the truth is it wasn't, it was that my body was like completely changing. My, my periods were, you know, I was doing the news and I would stuff a tampon because at that time, like I didn't want to be seen carrying it around. Now I'm like, but I stuffed it in my cleavage to run to the bathroom in between commercial breaks to like go and change really fast. Cause my period was out of control, but no one said like, Hey, that could be perimenopause.

17:57And again, I was like, Oh, it's stress. Yes. It's stress again. Don't you love how, again, I'm the first one. It's like, it must be my fault. It's me. I caused this. I caused this. I'm doing this. I'm the bad one, stupid one. I'm the problem. Yep. Yeah, it is. You know, my yoga teacher, um, oh, this was another one for me. That was so fun. Um, I love all your fun stuff. I have so many fun things. This is like, this is why I love having this conversation because we've known each other so long too. So a big part of my life is also, um, physicality in terms of I dance, I work out, I move. And I think this was probably about a year ago or so.

18:35And I started feeling like creaks and aches or pains. Right. And I was like, what the hell? Like just, you know, and I'm the girl I'm from Jersey. Like I've been at gold's gym my whole life. I am like, get me in there with the dirty, grimy, gritty in the weight room. Yes. I am throwing up weights. I'm psyched about it. Thank God somebody pulled me out of a tanning salon, you know, 20 years or else I'd still be in there. You know what I mean? I'd be a, I'd be a raisin, but I'd be tan. You'd be tan on my French, my French manicures. I got the pictures to prove it. Anywho, you know, working out and I'm just like, what, what?

19:14And feeling stuck in my body that I never felt. And actually one day I'm in Sag Harbor. I was, uh, my, my yoga teachers, uh, Rodney and Colleen Zedminier. I was in Rodney's class and I looked at him and he always like, who's got requests? And I speak up, no one in yoga class. They just like, they're on silent. And I'm like, hamstrings, you know what I mean? Like lower back, whatever. And I say, Hey Rod, I got stuff going on. He's like, what are you talking about? You never have stuff going on because I've been practicing so long. And I was like, I don't know. It's a little scary. He looked at me and he said, Marie, it's chemistry.

19:46And it was such a gift because in one sentence, him just saying it's chemistry. And he said, wait, how old are you again? Cause we hang out with friends. And I told him and he was like, it's chemistry. He's like, stop being so hard yourself. And isn't that awareness? Nice. Oh, somebody, it was so good. But that also, that made me dial up. I was like, I need to get on this hormone doctor immediately. And I will say the second that I got my cute little patch on. I can't wait till we find something that takes the glue off. That's my only problem. Yeah. What are you using right now? I use olive oil or I use like coconut.

20:20Yeah. Man, like I don't want it on there. I don't want it. I want it to not be like that big mess of it Like the dark day three and a half. I know. I know. I'm terrible. I go in with my little. I do too. Yeah. So we'll figure that out. This is going to be our new business. Okay. Okay. Back to aches and pains though. Yeah. That was another benefit of, for me, the aches and pains instantly. Bye-byes. The real. Oh, with the patch? Yes. A hundred percent. I don't, have you had frozen shoulder? No. Oh. I'm going to, can I skip that one? Well, I'll, should I just not? No, no. Tell us. It's to here. That's how I can reach.

21:00Wow. That's it. That's the difference. Now, I've been in PT for it because I'm a yoga nut. So my child's pose is like this, and then this one comes to here. But those are the aches and pains that are like real stuff that happens. So when we say joint pain or, you know, clicking of the knees or a hip pain, like all that's joint. And, you know, one of the big problems is when you start losing estrogen and losing these hormones, you start looking at things like osteoporosis long-term, you know, brain health long-term, cardiovascular health long-term. So those are the reasons to be aware of this too, not just because hot flashes are inconvenient.

21:39Yeah. Because we're talking about long-term health ramifications. Absolutely. And that's where I get sad when people have missed this conversation with their doctor or not felt, you know, empowered to have the conversation or don't know what to ask. So that, that was really the reason for the book. The reason for the doc is so that not only women know, but people who love women know, you know, so they just have an awareness of those symptoms. Yeah. It's serious stuff. It is serious stuff. It's serious long-term stuff that you want to handle. It's serious long-term stuff. And I feel bad. We were talking about my mom, you know, before we started recording and you know, there's a gajillion things that could happen.

22:12I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on the internet, but I absolutely believe that this is a piece of it too. you know? I believe that. I believe that. So one more thing I wanted to mention on the cardiovascular side, because I think that this is really important and it's somewhat new. I don't know if you've gone down this path yet, but so my cholesterol is high and I really clean it really good. I did something called the clearly test. Have you done that? I haven't done the clearly test. So for everyone, it's stupid expensive right now, but like everything in our world, I feel like we're at least coming into an age where technology is helping things become more accessible faster.

22:47So any who though, everyone was kind of miffed. I'm like, you eat really good, you exercise and work out. But these two cholesterol markers, those are the only things that were kind of not good. And so we're like, we got to check this. So the clearly is one of these somewhat new tests where they can go in and absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt what's happening in your heart to see if there is any blockage. So it's past the calcium test and it goes a deeper level. And my score came back zero. And so when I talked to, they were like, you're, you're actually part of a new cohort of people that we've never seen before that are extremely healthy, eating clean, doing the lifestyle stuff.

23:22And then when we actually look inside their heart, there's no blockage. So it's, it's kind of rewriting. And again, what we've all been taught to understand and believe. So I just want to also say that out loud. I'd like to look into that. Yes. I'll share after off camera, but I want to say that out loud because once you start going down these rabbit holes of understanding your data and understanding understanding your numbers. If you're in this world where you're already stressed, you have more anxiety, there's tons of going on and they're like, Oh, now I got to work. Like, you know what I mean?