437 - How to Heal When Everything Falls Apart

31:35And doing that journaling always helps me. Like I need to thaw to new possibilities often because I can get so entrenched in my ways and my habits. Is it that way for you? Like when you journal, you start to kind of venture into new possibilities. And if so, is there any examples of like, let's say a story that perhaps was entrenched for you, but that through journaling, you were like, huh, I can stop telling myself that story and found yourself more freedom. Yes. Well, so I have a couple of different prompts that I go back to again and again. And the first that's in the book is the to-feel list because I love a to-do list.

32:19And often I'll find that I almost have to start. I often feel tempted to start with my to-do list because then I can get to the fun stuff. And so instead, I really try to start with a to-feel list where I write down what I want to feel that day and different ideas for how to get myself there. So if I want to be present, what is it that gets me to being present? If I want to have fun and to feel, you know, whatever it is, joy, what is it that's going to get me there? So that I've been doing. But the prompt that I return to the most in part because I'm having a hard time allowing myself to dream big or to think to myself, you know, Wouldn't it be cool if, um, is a prompt from my, my dear friend, Holly Jacobs, uh, that's in the book and it's called a day in the life of my dream.

33:18And the premise of the prompt is that you are supposed to write about a day, five years out, uh, just a regular every day from the time you wake up until you go to sleep. Um, but the twist is that you have to write it in the first person. Um, so I, after a decade in remission, relapsed three years ago and then relapsed again this summer. And when you're living with a life-threatening disease, and certainly when you're going through, um, the experience of finding out that you have cancer for the third time, the future becomes a scary place. as much as I've always been a dreamer, you know, when I think even three or six months out, whatever cool idea or dream that comes to mind is very quickly followed by the fear that I won't get to exist in that future.

34:18And so that prompt, that day in the life of my dream prompt is one that I have been doing nearly every single day since I found out about my recurrence, in part because I find dreaming to be frightening. And it feels kind of dangerous because there's always the temptation, I think, when you're experiencing some kind of loss that you need to guard your heart. because to open your heart is to open yourself up, not just to the possibility of new dreams and new love, but also to new loss. Yes. So I'll give you a very specific example. Early pandemic, you know, my then boyfriend, John, and I had been together for a decade and I just turned, you know, 30 and all the big usual questions were at the doorstep.

35:21Like, what are we doing? Where is this going? And I had this feeling of like, you know, and he had it too. Like we either need to like move to the next step or move on. And there was so much doubt and so much anxiety. And I was writing about all those present doubts and anxieties. Um, but I wasn't really doing that hard work of unguarding my heart and allowing myself to kind of dream about different versions of what a perfect everyday together or single, um, would look like. And so I would write these entries every day. Um, and, um, I would start, you know when I woke up and I look over and there John was and it detailed this house I had you know as a kid who moved a lot always dreamed of owning my own house and I would detail this house I detailed the clawfoot bathtub I detailed the old you know wide plank pine floors and it was a farm house and it had two dogs one of which was my current dog and one was a dog I had yet to meet and on and on and on.

36:35Now, um, not long after I started doing that prompt, I learned that my leukemia was back and it was, you know, this feeling, um, like I had at 22 of my world imploding, except the difference was, um, that when it happened, I, you know, by, by that point had a clear sense of what I was looking for and what I wanted from this journaling exercise. And so when the opportunities presented themselves, whether it was, you know, that perfect scruffy rescue pup that was dog number two, or, you know, my dream, you know, farmhouse, when I was in a place where I could buy my home, I was ready to leap and to take that leap and to make that commitment.

37:29And that ended up being true of my relationship as well. So many of those fears and anxieties were my own fears and anxieties that actually weren't about John. They were my own baggage that I was bringing into it. And it was just in the process of doing that daily journaling and putting myself in that dream future place in the present tense that I was actually able to inhabit what that would feel like without the distraction of all my anxieties. And so I'll wrap this up by just saying that like a lot of couples during the pandemic, we had this notion that if we got married, we were going to wait until after the pandemic.

38:24So we could have a big party. John's from New Orleans. We were going to do some kind of second line and music and dancing and good food. And when I got sick, one of the very first things John said is we should get married, which we did. We planned our wedding in 24 hours. It was in the living room of our house that we had yet to move in to. We didn't have a stitch of furniture and we got flowers and candles and we had three friends and ordered takeout and had champagne. And I don't think we even had rings. We had bread twists. Yes. Because there wasn't time. And I was being admitted to the hospital the next day.

39:07And he said, you know, he said we had a plan and we're not going to let anything get in the way of that plan. And so that kind of defiant dreaming for me has been so needed as I'm navigating all of these new unknowns. and the place where I'm able to do that dreaming is in the journal because nobody knows about it other than me. And I have the freedom to just kind of follow a whimsy or a fantasy without worrying about where it'll lead or what the outcome might be. Having trouble solving a problem or reaching a dream? Well, guess what? The problem is not you. It's that you haven't yet installed the one belief that changes everything.

40:06Everything is figureoutable. That also happens to be the name of my instant number one New York Times bestselling book. And I want you to get your hands on it today because everything is figureoutable is not just a fun phrase to say. The book is packed with wisdom and stories and actionable exercises that'll make you unstoppable. Get your copy at everythingisfigureoutable.com. That's everythingisfigureoutable.com.

40:34You write so beautifully. These are your words. I just want to share them because it's right in this pocket and I feel like it moved me so much. Share the events of my life have trained me to expect the ceiling to cave in. So when I start to dream wildly and ambitiously, the voices of doubt and fear immediately chime in. But a fear-driven life is one where I stop myself from dreaming ambitiously. ambitiously. It means living safe and small, always hedging against the worst case scenario. I don't want that. I want to live boldly. I want to hold the best case scenario at the forefront and have that guide my decisions and actions.

41:09And so my current modus operandi must be this. I have to trust and find ways to delight in the mystery of how things unfold, even if it's not what I had planned, even if it's far from ideal. I have to believe it's possible that facing the thing you fear brings you exactly what you need. And just this notion of dancing with fear and dancing with dreaming big and making plans and the willingness to change gears when necessary, it feels so rich and necessary to have a tool like this to be able to do that. because I'm sure there are countless souls listening to this conversation right now that find themselves in their own version of whether to use a phrase that you've shared, life interrupted, whether it's sickness or loss or some other kind of heartbreak.

42:07So that's why I'm so excited about this conversation because you're doing this and demonstrating in real time. I think, you know, navigating uncertainty is something that maybe all of us have done to some extent and but right now at this particular moment in the world there is so much angst around uncertainty whether it's political or global or financial or personal and so So in a way, um, figuring out how to swim in that ocean of uncertainty that has been my constant work, uh, with each of these new relapses. Um, and you know, when I had this most recent relapse, um, I said to my oncologist, I was like, I just, I don't know what to do with myself.

43:04Like I'm so anxious. There are all these what ifs. Um, there are no statistics that I can look to that can give me insight into my prognosis. Um, I just don't know how to make plans. Uh, even with this book, uh, you know, I found out about my relapse when, uh, in the final week that it was due and I had the afterward, uh, still to write. And I, you know, I think as one often does when you're finishing a book, there's this temptation to tie up the message of the book with this beautiful bow. Um, and especially with the news of that relapse, I was like, I just, there is, I don't know how to do that.

43:47Um, and you know, it occurred to me that in a way, you know, that's what the journal embodies. There are no neat bows. It's about, you know, reveling in the mess and puzzling, you know, puzzling through the questions. The quote that opens the book is one of my favorite lines from the poet Rilke. And he says, live the questions now until someday you can live your way into the answers. And so that's really what I've had to do. Um, there will always be what ifs. Um, and you know, I may live a little closer to my mortality than some people. Um, but the one certainty that we all have, um, is that we're not going to be here forever.

44:43Um, that life is a terminal condition and that may sound wildly depressing. but there's also a kind of liberation in that. And so when I shift away from my fear of the uncertainty into the mystery of uncertainty, of all the unknowns, not just bad, but good and and surprising and wild, um, then I get kind of excited. Um, and so, you know, the counterintuitive thing about getting sick again is that it's given me a sense of permission to return to that creativity that we all as children just have in us innately that we lose as we get older, as we get self-conscious, as we start to feel like there's a right and a wrong way to be.

45:40And it's given me permission to experiment and play and to not know. And there's a relief in not having to know. And as we said earlier, making it up as you go along. Yes. It can be so exciting and so freeing. The trip that you took with the 50 of the top thinkers and luminaries of the world that you wrote about, I want to dive into that for a second and then get into a little more of, uh, about journaling. Cause I know some, some people hold themselves back and you've got some great tools and tips that can help people crack into this. But first, so that trip that you got invited on, right. And I laughed so hard when you were talking about just folks asking you, so what do you do?

46:30Can I tell you, Suleika, that is my, I, I've always hated that question. I still hate the question to this day. Like sometimes I'm out with Josh, who's an actor. And so we're in these entertainment circles, right? And so like directors that, you know, all of these. I'm already sweating. I feel this so deeply. It's like, and so I'm at, and of course they'll come there. Oh, so are you an actor as well? And then I know it's coming because I am not. And then it's like, so what do you do? And I just, I basically like at this point, sometimes I go and sometimes I'm like, are those shrimp? Like, oh, is that guacamole?

47:07Oh my gosh, this looks so good because I just never have one good society approved dancer. So I was laughing so hard. Can you just share a little bit about your experience with that question? And then my follow-up after the story is like, do you, I still don't, I, you know what I've done? Like I was just at an engagement party the other night and it was someone who knows me, like just, you know, we're acquaintances and she's like, oh, tell me more about your work. And I literally said, open Instagram. I love it. And I was just like, Yeah, I was like, just experience it. So, okay, take us to that 50 of the worlds.

47:40So I have feared this answer since I started writing. My very first writing job was a column in the New York Times called Life Interrupted that existed because of that first 100-day project. The contents of my journal became the source material and inspiration for that column. But even then, you know, it was a column about being in my early 20s and navigating illness. And whenever people would ask me what I did, I felt kind of self-conscious about writing personal essays. So I always had this temptation to beef it up and make it sound more serious. So I'd say like, I write a column in the New York Times science section or something.

48:23And so anyway, that, that angst and fear and that inclination that you have to like be some exaggerated, more impressive, rigorous version of who you are is a chip that I've carried on my shoulder forever. And you would think that by now I'd be over it. But a year ago, I'm at this conference and, you know, all these incredible speakers and then these breakout sessions. And I found myself in this conversation with like some Nobel Prize winning scientists and some other, you know, intimidatingly impressive person. and everyone was talking about their work doing artificial intelligence and editing genomes and whatever the else.

49:10And I knew it was coming, and they turned to me and they said, so what are you working on?

49:19And I just kind of froze because I was working on this book, this distillation of a creative practice that has not only changed my life, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that it has saved my life. and I said, you know, I'm writing a book about journaling. And I just watched that answer fall so flat. And I like wanted to make it more serious. I wanted to say, I'm actually, you know, it's about the history of journaling, which it absolutely is not. But I was like, how do I make this sound more scholarly? And I felt so embarrassed. And the thing is like, I know, I, you know, there is a mountain of evidence about the benefits of journaling from, you know, lowering stress levels to even improving your immune system.

50:18Um, and I know the applicabilities that it's had on my life, um, on every aspect of my life from my work and my business to my relationship to just my own, you know, growth and, and, and development of self. Um, but I just shrunk and you know, I've done it many times. How do you, so when you feel that temptation to shrink and as someone who's married to someone in the entertainment world, I struggle with this too. Um, it's like Glennon Doyle talks about her fear of walking down a red carpet with her wife, Yes. Where, uh, you know, uh, they'll take, you know, five minutes of photographs of her wife and then she steps in and they take like one or two half-hearted photos and they're like, next, next, next.

51:09Um, but I'm curious, you know, to, to quote Brene that, that temptation to shrink or puff up, um, and the challenge of standing your sacred ground. How do you, how do you resist just some days to shrink or pass up some days I'm better than others. Like some days I beeline for the shrimp. You know what I mean? Like some days I don't have it in me. And other days, um, I'm able to just talk through it. Like, you know, do you know how, you know, there's small business owners who just want to have more customers and maybe they don't have blah, blah, blah. And, you know, I can go there and there's times when like, I'm feeling like, I don't know, maybe I had a great cup of coffee that morning and I just dive in, you know what I mean?

51:52And I'm super playful. I've never, even though I know the value of having these wonderful quote unquote lines or, you know, having a few things that I could say, I'm just not good at it. I'm like a much more spontaneous person. So I try and be as responsive and dance with the person as possible, but I still don't have one society approved answer. Like I remember even in the early days when I was trying to figure out the business and I was bartending and waiting tables and dancing. And I was just like feeling like such a loser because I was so multi-passionate, but I didn't have that phrase yet.

52:26And when that phrase entered my consciousness, which I believe it's from like the creative gods or God or goddess or universal consciousness, whatever magic exists beyond us, where it was like, you are a multi-passionate entrepreneur. And I was like, I am a multi-passionate entrepreneur. I didn't even know what the hell that meant. But it gave me a new context. And then people asked me what I did and I would say that and they're like, well, what does that mean? I was like, well, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I'm teaching hip hop. And on Mondays I'm coaching, you know, and I kind of started to be able to run through some of the projects I was working on.

52:58But it's so funny because I was like, you were saying, guys, still, it sounds like it still has that for you. I'm like, dude, this has been 25 years now. And I still don't have a great answer. I love what you said about not having a society approved answer. Because when I think about the people I admire most, who I am most inspired by, none of them have society approved messages. You included. I mean, I have heard you talk about the notion of being a multi-passionate entrepreneur and I relate so deeply to it because as a kid, I was someone who had so many different passions and I felt shame about it.

53:40The message from all corners, especially in the United States is you have to find a singular purpose. You need to transform that purpose into your passion. And then you need to transform that passion into your profession and you need to become the very best at it and you need to monetize it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I never had a singular purpose or passion. I still don't. And I will say, you know, in part, you know, thanks to my journaling practice, I feel like just in the last couple of years, I've been able to accept and make space, not just within the pages of my journal, but beyond it for all of those beautiful varied parts of myself.

54:32Yes. And I love that. Like I was on, I'm rarely on social media, but whenever I'm having an amazing guest on. I go in all the different places just to like soak up someone's energy and to be in it. And your visual art is so stunning. And like I, it actually really inspired me. I don't know, many of you don't know this, but like when, as a kid, I thought I was going to be a fine artist, visual artist. That was my first thing. I was like, okay, is it a fashion designer? Is it just fine art? Is it animator for Disney? So it was really, really beautiful. Like I saw the work it was on John's piano, right?

55:05For the, it was just like, Oh girl, your work is, I can't wait to see more of it, of your visual work. Cause it's so, so, so stunning. Well, and it's a totally new thing for me. I, um, three years ago when I had a second bone marrow transplant, I, um, I'm realizing as I'm talking how, how not repetitive, um, the themes are, but just how consistent we are as human beings, because I went into the hospital with a suitcase, not full of books of the Western canon, but full of journals. Cause I was like, cool, cool, cool. I've got this. I'm going to do another a hundred day project. It's fine. I'm going to, you know, write my way through it.

55:48And within a couple of days of being admitted to the hospital, I had a complication that, uh, impaired my vision for about two or three weeks. And I couldn't comfortably, right? It wasn't useful. It wasn't cathartic. And I was having these really scary medication induced hallucinations and nightmares. And, um, someone had given me a block of watercolor paper and paints and not a painter. I haven't painted from the time I was a little kid. Um, but I knew from having been through this before that, you know, to hold to whatever plan you had, um, when the plan is just not going to happen as a recipe and just frustration and, and, and bitterness.

56:33And so I decided to keep a visual journal. Um, and I was painting these nightmares that I was having. And instead of feeling scared of, of those nightmares, I was intrigued by them. They became interesting to me. Um, and it's that shift that, that kind of, that, that sense of alchemy that I think, um, is, is what I find so miraculous for you go from feeling a certain way to through, um, a creative practice, be it journaling or painting or whatever it is that speaks to you, you get to transform an experience or some kind of pain point into something interesting and useful and maybe even beautiful.

57:29And so that's how I started painting. I love that. By the end of that six-week hospital stay, I had covered the walls of my hospital room and these watercolors and my nurses, um, would, you know, come in each morning excited to see, uh, what was, what, what new thing had been put up on the wall. And they described it as this like weird hospital, uh, art gallery. Um, and the woman who would come and clean the floors, uh, uh, said she would always clean them for longer than she needed to, because she just felt good being in there. Um, And so, yeah, again, that mystery. I never thought at 33 that I would uncover a whole new creative passion.

58:18And now it's all I want to do. It's what makes me feel most alive and what I look forward to most. painting. It's so exciting. It's so exciting. I want to talk about, just for a moment, because around journaling specifically, I love the practicality of this, like the fears and concerns many of us have, you know, especially if you're like, oh, like, well, I don't know how to get going or I have nothing to say, or this feels really cringy or, you know, I don't have the energy or the inspiration to write one word. What are some of the fears or concerns that you've heard when teaching this work? And what are a couple of either tools or ways around some of those concerns?

58:59So if people feel inspired to obviously get the book to start their own 100 day practice, but then actually put pen to paper. Yeah. Yeah. So I think consistency is the biggest stumbling block. Like I said, a lot of people buy journals because we know it's like meditation or, you know, all kinds of different modalities. It's something that's supposed to be good for us. And maybe you start out strong, maybe you, you know, get stuck before you even start, but it's just hard to keep going. And I think journaling, you know, much like exercising is not only a muscle that you have to develop, but you really only, in my opinion, reap the benefits of it when you're doing it consistently.

59:42I agree. And when you, you know, kind of right through the fog or right through the resistance, that to me is where the interesting stuff happens. And so I've always been partial to that container, be it 30 days or 10 days or a hundred days. And the only way I know how to be consistent is to have some sense of accountability. So I have a friend, Holly, who got a copy of the book and, you know, she's in a book club. She's a mom with two young kids. And she's like, I don't have time to do this. And I was like, go on your phone, please. And look at how many hours you spent on social media this week.

1:00:27And she was like, no, I don't want to do that. And I was like, great. Okay. You do have time. It can be a truth. Yes. This is what you prioritize. And also what, more importantly, what makes you want to come back to it? Yes. And so she decided that she could not commit to a hundred days. She could only commit to one prompt. And I was like, cool, cool, cool. And she brought it to her book club, you know, this gathering of other young moms. And they were like, I don't really want to do this. We have one hour a month where we get to be together and to socialize. Why would we spend 15 minutes of our precious hour in silence writing together?

1:01:08but they did it and you know I think

1:01:15it's so hard to find to quote the poet T.S. Eliot like the still point in a spinning world and to me there's something actually really special about journaling with someone else about finding that still point together so much of our social interactions are around like eating and drinking and talking and to just get to be with other people where you're not doing any of that is so rare and so sacred. And so that's what they did. They read an essay in prompt. They wrote together for 10 minutes. They were not going to read their journal entries because it's not meant to be read, but they talked about what came up for them.

1:02:00And she told me later, she was like, we've known each other for years and we learned things about each other that we never knew. And so for me, like I do my version of that with different people. I have my own kind of little journaling club where we gather and write together. And that's the thing I think that that kind of thing, whether, you know, you're using an accountability tracker or some kind of buddy system or some kind of book club, journaling club. that to me, um, has always been necessary, um, to keep the practice going, especially when you don't feel you have it in you. Um, the other thing I'll say is folding it into a non-negotiable part of your routine for me is the only way I, you know, I can ensure that I do it.

1:02:55So, um, my, and, and you know, a non-negotiable part of my routine is my first cup of coffee in the morning. Amen. Yes. Like nothing is going to happen until that happens. And so that's when I do my journaling. Isn't it so sacred? Like I love the mornings so much. They are such magic time. There's been times when I go to bed specifically excited to wake up and have coffee. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm already every single night. I'm like, that's exactly, I'm like, like, oh my God. And I like put my little journal out and sometimes I have my candle and other times I have like my special mug and it's just, oh, it is legitimately the best.

1:03:32I love that. And I think the other thing you wrote about in the book, which I loved, was that if any part of you is afraid of someone reading it, it's like you can lock it up. You can also write and like burn it or get rid of it just to give yourself that total sense of safety and that sense of privacy that all of us need, especially when exploring our lives and ourselves and all of our stuff. I want to talk about something you wrote not so long ago, and I loved this. You said, two things giving me joy right now are my dogs and my design projects. And you referenced moving to this 1800s farm in the Delaware Valley.

1:04:07So I am obsessed. Anyone who knows me knows like real estate porn is my favorite porn. Like I, StreetEasy and me, I will tell brokers here in Manhattan about list. They're like, wait, are you a broker? I'm like, nope, I'm just obsessed. And by the way, I found a new really fun piece of candy on Netflix. Have you discovered the Parisian agency? Have you seen this? No, I'm scared. Is this going to take over my life? No, it's so delicious. I don't know if you're into reading subtitles, but this has been so delish for me. And I've just introduced it. Chris is the only other one I've told about it besides Josh.

1:04:40And it's just basically this real estate family in France. And they're not from luxury real estate, but they kind of developed this whole firm. And I'm just sitting there like looking at, and all I want to do is just enjoy it and bathe in it. Anyway, back to you. Can we talk about a little bit about what ignited the move to the farm, anything that you want to share, like lentil and sunshine? And are there other? There's river. There's river. Okay. Like tell me, tell me because decor, interior design, like all the things that's like my other love. I have many Same. I have two pornographic addictions, so to speak, real estate and Pet Finder.

1:05:22Oh, amazing. Zillow and Pet Finder. Actually, sorry, I have a third, Facebook Marketplace. Yes. I just started getting the Facebook Marketplace. Yeah. Okay. So you might have to teach me your ways. Oh, I will teach you all of the secrets. So I grew up moving around a lot. I went to 12 different schools on three different continents by the time I was 10. And all I dreamed about was having one key and one home. And I've been obsessed not just with the idea of having a home, but what my home would look like from the time I was very, very young. I've been going through all of my old journals and a lot of my journals, even at age eight, are descriptions of what my future home will look like.

1:06:05Because that was my way of trying on a version of a life. Yes. Um, and in my earliest journals, I talk about having a farm with multiple dogs and miniature donkeys, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and so I've also always loved design. I think like you, I love beauty and I've come to believe that, you know, beauty, even though it seems like a luxury is so essential to how we find joy. I feel like my mom is one of my great teachers in beauty. She is the person who will like cut a little flower from her garden and put it in a tiny little bud vase on my bedroom table every single time I come home.

1:06:54It's just like a tiny gesture doesn't cost her anything. Um, but it's that little act of curation and love. Um, and so I've inherited, I think that love from her, um, and, um, design for me as right now where my passion is, I, um, have furnished probably over 70 % of our house from Facebook marketplace and thrift stores and flea markets. And I just love the act of scavenging for something and finding some unexpected treasure. Um, and in a way I think, you know, that's what we're all doing and, and various aspects of our life is, is excavating, um, and, and seeking out the treasures, especially in the unexpected places.

1:07:47Um, so yeah, dogs, the farmhouse, was it, was it, were you like, were you all looking again? Cause I, I am for certain friends, like I'm sliding over listings, like nobody's business. Like once I know about a friend having either a dream or a desire, or they're like, Hey, I'm ready to move. I'm like, put me on the case. Do you know what I mean? Cause I'm going to slide. Were you, were you on, you know what I mean? looking at the listings for a while and basically knew the area you wanted to go and we're just clocking it. Marie, I have been looking at listings since I was 20 years old, like not just years, but like over a decade before it was even a financial possibility.

1:08:29Yes. Was it in one area or did you have multiple, like I like in, we're here in New York city right now where our studio is, but I have been looking, I have one little radius. I call it the shire. And I'm like, I will not. And everybody thinks I'm nuts. I'm like, I'm not nuts. I'm just specific. My soul knows exactly where it wants to be. And I'm uncompromising and unwilling in that. And I'm like, I can be as patient. So that's why I'm asking these questions because I'm curious who has neuroses like me. I thought I knew where I wanted it to be and I was utterly surprised by where we landed. That's cool.

1:09:04I ended up, so I was a dancer when I was younger and I ended up coming across a listing of an old bank barn that had belonged to a contemporary dancer who I admired tremendously. And the only thing I love more than an old house is an old house with like good creative juju. Yes. And so we went and visited this place probably five or six times. And John was like, this is so impractical. No, no, no, no, no. And I was like, no, no, no. Just like, bear with me. Here's the vision. Yes. Here's, I was like, and we've been looking for a place, you know, close enough to the city that we can go back and forth, but also far enough to feel transported.

1:09:49I think like a lot of people, we learned during the pandemic that we're more country mice in some ways than we are city mice. Um, and so I was like, we need a place where we can gather, where we can have creative collaborators. And he, and you know, little by little we got there. And so that's where we've been. And we have fallen in love with this house, fallen in love with that good creative juju. What John wasn't aware of was that by creative collaborators, I meant not just humans, but many, many animals. Yes. So we've adopted three dogs. Our latest is a tiny hairless senior, toothless hairless senior named Lentil, who we are absolutely obsessed with.

1:10:37I love Lentil. And over the weekend, John said to me, I think we need more animals. He's like, it's cow time, it's goat time, it's sheep time. So that is - Have you gone down the llama route? No. So we have a place in upstate New York and there is a farm, like there's a sanctuary essentially. And I was like hanging out with the llamas and I'm like, like they're just magical. So I am here for all the animals. This is a cosine. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Celebration, send food. I will do whatever. Cause this sounds magical. Okay. We need to look into llamas. This is thrilling. Yeah. This is like, we need more animals.

1:11:15Yeah. My new day in the life of my dream involves, um, farm animals of all varieties. That's so cool. That's so cool. So, um, okay. So that's awesome. So you were looking, you were like me, you look for a really long time. And then are you the person to like, when I walk into any kind of space, I it's emotional for me. Like, I'm like, they're like, this checks all your boxes. I'm like, not the sole one. Like you can't, you can't check off a vibe. You can't check off that creative juju or the feeling that you have like in a space. Was that, is that true for you as well? Absolutely. I have to be able to not just picture myself living there, but picture myself writing my next book there and having a whole range of experiences.

1:12:00Whereas my husband's much more practical. He's like, what are the crime rates in this neighborhood, you know, who are the neighbors, what are, you know, X, Y, and Z. But for me, it's all vibe. Um, and you know, I think for, for both of us, um, we both work from home. Um, and, and as you know, people who spend a lot of time on the road, um, creating a home that not only feels beautiful, but feels like nappable and comfortable, um, and, and creatively inspiring is so important to us. And so, yeah, we're always trying to figure out, um, and I think it's why I love Facebook marketplace and free flea markets.

1:12:44I like the places where you can find things that have soul, that have stories. Yes. I like, I love going upstate and, um, doing some antiquing and just going to some of these places. And then especially too, it's like really great because the contrast sometimes like I've been in New York, you know, like over 30 years now and it's still eye popping prices for certain things. And then you go to different parts and you're like, Oh my goodness. You know, and someone doesn't want this anymore. And I think that this is amazing and it's$10. I'm like, Oh, I'm doing cartwheels. Totally. That's me all the time.

1:13:16And I think it like stems from some childhood scrappy Oh, 100%. Where I'm like, I want that sofa. I'll look it up. It is wildly unaffordable. Then I go on Facebook marketplace and inevitably with enough patience and enough scavenging, I find it. Yes. I can't wait for you to teach me your ways. And it's all the better because you've had to scavenge for it. Yeah, 100%. So you've built this beautiful creative life as continuing to navigate uncertainty and love and recovery and reinvention. Are there boundaries or habits that are non-negotiable for you now that help you protect your peace? And I'll put this other context in there too, especially in a world where, again, you and I, I think, share that DNA of the impetus to create, the impetus to have output and production, which is awesome and beautiful and lovely in all the right ways.

1:14:14But I know, at least speaking for myself, there's also the very real needs of my body to want to rest and the very real needs of my soul that wants space. So I'm just curious if there's, if there's anything that's working for you right now. So, you know, one thing I've noticed with every time I've gotten sick and, um, every time all of my plans have imploded as a result of, of those relapses is that they've also been my periods of greatest creative growth. Um, and in thinking more about why that is, it's because I don't have a plan. Um, because there is no expectation. There is no outcome that I'm measuring myself up against.

1:14:58I'm just doing the things that bring me joy, that nourish me. And I'm not overthinking it. I'm not trying to be good or bad at it. I'm just doing it because I want to. And I think about that a lot and how much we resist our own intuition because it doesn't fit in our plan or because, you know, maybe the plan sounded good, but doesn't fully fit, but you're going to go forward with it anyway, because you've sunken in enough time and energy and resources that the idea of a pivot feels inconceivable. And so I actually actively try to schedule unscheduled time for myself where I can do whatever I want.

1:15:43And sometimes that looks like a nap and sometimes it looks like painting and sometimes it looks like hanging out with a friend. But when I do that consistently enough, um, it always leads to the best ideas, which is to say the ideas that are most aligned with my intuition. Um, and so this summer, you know, I I am planning to take a whole month off, which I have never done before. I've only done it when it's in response to crisis, when I've gotten sick or something has forced me to take a pause. And I'm going to take the month of August to do nothing, to do whatever it is. I feel like it is a tremendous privilege to get to do that.

1:16:27Um, but it's something that I know, even though it seems unproductive is the most productive thing that I can do. And I've learned that lesson again and again, and yet it's so hard to believe that and to trust it. Even when the work doesn't look like work, even when the work looks like, you know, dancing around in your underwear or, you know, spending all day on your couch. Yes, I'm with you. I've been talking about it a little on the show. It's just like I'm planning this. I've never done three weeks in Italy. And I'm so excited about this trip. And I'm like, how the hell did I get to this age?

1:17:09And what kind of toxicity is in this programming? Do you know what I mean? That I've absorbed that's like, wow, three weeks in Italy. Meanwhile, I was at my stepson's best friend's engagement party. And so the fact that I have like a 30-year-old stepson also just like, I'm like, how does this all happen? Anyway, his best friend, he and his fiance, they're taking nine months to travel. And I was just like, yes. It brought me so much inspiration and joy. These two young humans, they are such lovely souls. They're so loving. They're so creative. And both of their careers at the same time, one of them was laid off.

1:17:50The other one, kind of a similar situation. They're like, when do we get to do this? And it gave me so much joy. And it helped me start to thaw some of my own ideas. Do you know what I mean? You're like, I'm taking a whole month off. And it's like, I'm in here doing cartwheels for you and full on high kicks and pom-pom throws. I love that. And it's like a lesson that for me, I keep learning and unlearning and learning and unlearning. And it feels like a really exciting new phase of life to not push. You know, I've just grew up with the pushing, the pushing, the pushing. It's only going to happen if I make it happen.

1:18:33And like recently, so many things have been happening that I am not making happen. Yeah. So it feels like I'm like, oh, it's a whole new world. I should not be singing because I'm terrible. but I love it. I mean, you know, we talked about eulogy virtues. Like I, in the moments when I've gotten scary medical news, like I think about the things that I'm so grateful I did and it's never, you know, working through the entire weekend or whatever it is, you know, or turning down the amazing trip with my best friends that I said no to because I was on deadline or whatever. Um, like I've never like, yes, so glad I did that.

1:19:21Right. It's taking the trip with my best friends and knowing that the work will get done. Um, and that, you know, and, and so I think about that all the time. I'm like, and again, maybe it sounds depressing, but to me it's really useful. I'm like, if I don't think it sounds depressing at all, I think it's super inspiring. I think it's a helpful thought exercise. Like if you were to get a terminal diagnosis, what would be important to you? And it's a question I ask myself and I have a terminal diagnosis, but I need to, I need to prompt myself in that way to reroute my priorities to what really matters because that programming is so deep that without actually asking myself that sort of a dramatic question, Yes.

1:20:04I'm just go, go, go worker B worker B. And I don't lift my head up. And I feel like I don't have that permission to actually stop and say no to whatever the opportunity is or to slow down or to hit the pause button altogether. Chris, we were talking off camera before we started recording Chris Carr, who's, you know, my, my best friend. We talk about this a lot and like she lost her dad a few years back and Ken, love you, Ken. One of his lessons that she wrote about in her most recent book was just like the golden years are for shit. It was such a great saying from Ken. And so Chris and I talk about it.

1:20:46We're just like, dude, anytime we see ourselves or notice ourselves or feel ourselves again, slipping back into those same old patterns, like I'm always pulling the Ken card and really, really going like, hey, dude, clock's ticking. And I like to talk about all the time also because my partner is also quite a bit older than I, you know? And so it's just like, got to get my shit together. And it's, it's inspiring. It is inspiring because I think we live in such a culture, especially here in the U S where it's very easy to get caught back in the slipstream. Totally. You know, we're, yeah, we're obsessed with productivity.

1:21:24Um, you know, I mentioned earlier talking to my doctor about like, I'm like, how do I navigate these what ifs. And the thing he said to me from day one is you have to live every day as if it's your last. And that's, you know, the kind of advice that people give from the best of places. And I've always found it so panic inducing because I'm like, what does it mean to live every day as if it's my last? Like every interaction has to be meaningful. I have to carpe diem the out of every minute and every day. And that is an exhausting way to live. And I've come to believe that it's terrible advice and that if we were all to live every day as if it's our last, we'd be, you know, in total chaos.

1:22:11We'd be emptying our bank accounts and declaring bankruptcy and we'd be, you know, cheating on our spouses and eating ungodly amounts of, like, who knows what would happen, but it's just not sustainable. Um, and so I had to shift to this gentler mindset of trying to live every day as if it's my first and to kind of wake up with a sense of curiosity and wonder that a little kid does naturally. Um, and when I do that, it's not, you know, some race to cross off items on my bucket list. it is, you know, indulging in an hour of bopping around Zillow or hanging out with our newest senior rescue on the couch or giving myself permission to do nothing at all.

1:23:07This book and your work and you, most importantly, are a gift to so many. As it relates to the book of alchemy, what do you hope it awakens in the heart of the reader? Hmm. So, you know, I think a lot of people think that they're not creative. Um, and if your day job is, doesn't involve, you know, art or music or writing that it's something that you don't have access to or that you wouldn't necessarily benefit from. And so my hope is that this book helps people realize that creativity is a gift that we all have access to and that we can all benefit from. Um, and that this practice that's shared in the book, um, helps people find their way to a richer, more meaningful, um, more wonder filled, uh, creative life.

1:24:13You are such a joy. Oh, thank you so much. I am so excited for this. I'm so excited for the tour. I'm so excited for, um, all the things that you will continue to share and enjoy and be. So thank you, Zuleika. Thank you, Marie. Here's to not having, what did you say? Societally approved one sentence descriptors of what we do. And let's go antiquing together, please. Please. Thank you. Oh my goodness. You're incredible. You're still listening. Now look, if you enjoyed this podcast, I think you're going to really love my free audio training called How to Get Anything You Want. You're going to learn three strategies that'll give you the clarity and confidence to build your dreams on your terms.

1:25:03Just Google Marie Forleo, how to get anything you want, and you can download this audio training for free right now. Enjoy it.