442 - Repeat These 2 Words to Reinvent Yourself with Jonathan Van Ness

23:52I love that. I didn't even mean to. It just happened. I mean I think I've been saying this for like seven years but it's so true I still feel myself in like a constant state of shock like that I get to do Queer Eye that I get to like do hair and like meet people and be in like it's it's just it really is such a cool experience but I think over the time I I don't I mean I don't want to be like a like anticlimactic but I feel like the most thing that changed was my checkbook. Like I could just get way cuter clothes, way cuter glam. Like I feel like that. And I feel like from season one to like three, four, cause like, that's what like, I got my stylist, like season one and two, like I didn't have, we like, there was a stylist on the show, but I was just like constantly going rogue and like doing my own thing.

24:46Like just, you know, just trying to figure it out. And to Allie B's defense, if you're ever watching this, she's been my stylist since 2000 and like since the premiere of Queer Eye. That's when I met her and I've literally only ever worked with her since. Yeah. And she will, like when she watches this show, she'll be like, girl, like this was not in the look book. Like you went rogue on this. Like this was not the look that we agreed on. But it's like, it's Vegas or it's like New Orleans or it's Philadelphia or like Austin, Texas and like the height of summer. And so sometimes I'm like, oh, I can't do hair.

25:13I was just not saying. And these long sleeves. I'm like. Sweating. Yeah. There was like a really famous character on SNL called Pat who was like very, it's not, it would never pass 2025 but they were like giving gender queer it was giving gender queer no one knew if pat was like a man or a woman they were really really funny but i wore this one outfit in vegas and ali b sent me this thing and she was like you are dressed as like a pat lookalike and this salon scene like what is this outfit and i was like really and she was like oh this is like i was wearing like moccasins pink jeans and like a light bluish gray t-shirt i was I thought it was so cute.

25:52Allie's not having it. So she styles me like, I would say like 95 % of the time, except for the 5 % of the times when I go rogue. But I feel like that kind of like. That elevated how you. Stylistically, like it did like. And so I don't know if that's kind of. I also feel like one other thing that really, really like aesthetically changed. The first like, and not even to like plug JV in here, but it's just, it's so true. I never had the patience to like make, to wear my hair curly on camera. because if I was doing like, you know how we do those little interviews in Queer Eye? Yes, absolutely. If you ever like have to recreate one of those, like I don't want, like I could never make my curly hair look the same way twice.

26:31So I always blew it out straight. Yep. Then, or like, you know, just did a blow dry. Yep. Then when I started formulating JVN hair and I, cause I just love curls. I love natural texture and like, it's my favorite type of hair to style and do. And I just was like sick of layering like 19 products on my hair, like having to do like a cream and a gel and a foam and an oil. So that was like my kind of inspo behind air dry cream when I did formulate it and started JVN Hair. So then from like scrunching so many versions of air dry cream in my hair and just like only wearing my hair curly, I finally figured out after doing hair professionally for like over a decade how to do my own curls consistently so I could make them look the same.

27:08So then I started like embracing my natural texture more. And I think, I also think it's like, I just never think about this. The other thing too, it's like with query, like we watch the episodes. I watch them like right before they come out or when I do interviews and stuff, but it's not like I go back and like rewatch and like critique yourself. No, no, no, no. Or like, but, but I do think that I'm more aware now of like, if I'm talking too long, that's never going to make it. Yeah. Like, so I do, I am a little bit more aware of like, how can I get my point across in like two sentences instead of like 12 and just be a little quippier, be a little shorter, like be more aware of like what they need.

27:45Whereas I feel like at the beginning I was just like, yeah, no, as everyone is how to be a producer. I mean, we, when we started, we like, we didn't have producer credits and now we have EP credits. And I mean, I think from gay of Thrones, like I started that off, didn't know anything about writing, producing, performing comedy, nothing. And I learned how to produce, write EP. Like I learned, I learned about editing, sound engineering, like lighting. Isn't it amazing? I just have learned so much stuff on the job. Yes. like in just in life that has just been so cool. I love it. I love the behind the scenes and I love, I don't know if you can share this, but you know, we see a 40 ish, 50 ish minute finished product.

28:26How many hours about go into one episode? Even just of shooting. Not even a pre-pro. I think 40. Oh my, isn't that amazing? I would say like 40, maybe between 30 and 40. Cause we're shooting like, you're shooting like eight hours a day for five days. Yes. And I think for like, when I'm in the salon with them, if it's like, If it's someone where I'm doing like cut and color, we are on mic, on camera, like that whole time. My goodness. Like the whole time. My goodness. I mean, doing, I feel like that's, sometimes I never, I never like say this because I don't, I just don't. But like sometimes when we do group interviews, people be like, what's like the hardest part about filming that, you know, and people always go to design because it's, it is the most physically intensive, like, you know, it's long.

29:09But the difference is like design has like 10, 20 people. I got this girl right here yeah yeah yeah and so when I'm thinking about like how much and also having production which will be like can you do this can we do like a bigger transformation yes and less amount of time yeah no there's a lot there's so much pressure and then like doing hair in front of like three cameras with like so many people like watching your every move and you can feel their pressure of like I need you to hurry up so we can get to the next scene and start that on time but like sometimes you're like her hair is orange right now yeah no it's not lifting as fast like I thought it was going to lift faster but I didn't, that's another thing I've learned on Queer Eye.

29:44I test strand now. I didn't used to test strand because I'd be like, I know how this is going to lift now, honey. Before I even, before I even think about doing highlights on camera, I'm test stranding that sucker like a day or two before just to see if it's going to lift okay. And then they just have like one little random highlight. Yes. Like I'll just, I hide it underneath so I can just like see how it's going to lift because I just can't. I love that. No, there's so many different things. And I think with almost any creative project, but certainly something that is on television or film or like a live production, when you see something that looks easy and effortless and it's magical it's like the amount of work that goes into creating that magic is so um it's always mind-blowing and those turnaround scenes like in queer like when I turn them around like that's usually like 10 o 'clock at night we've all been there for like seven hours and like and like me and the makeup person like yeah but you're still let's brighten these eyes up and just like let's make us make us look alive honey you're sounding fresh and you're looking fresh thank you yeah no it is having trouble solving a problem or reaching a dream well guess what the problem is not you it's that you haven't yet installed the one belief that changes everything everything is figureoutable that also happens to be the name of my instant number one new york times best-selling book and i want you to get your hands on it today because everything is figureoutable is not just a fun phrase to say.

31:04The book is packed with wisdom and stories and actionable exercises that'll make you unstoppable. Get your copy at everythingisfigureoutable.com. That's everythingisfigureoutable.com.

31:19Okay. So let's talk about fame a little bit and just being a public figure a little bit more. I feel like from reading your memoir, like you knew from a very young age, like you were a star on the inside. And I know that, but it's, it's like, you know, you, you knew. I definitely thought I was. Yes. Well, I was like landing it, sticking it. Um, and then of course, after the show premiered, your life changed a lot. And I know you wrote about this in over the top, but is there anything about fame that you wish you knew before that no one tells you that can either be surprising or difficult or, um, something that you either didn't expect, or you wish you knew how to navigate before it happened.

31:59I remember I did something. I'm so not famous, but like - You are. Tell me everything. It was like, I just was having a rough time one time and I was living in Venice in California and my best friend and I, and I was just like, you know when you're just having like not a great day? Yeah. And we were in Erewhon, which is, I love Erewhon. And someone who was a big fan came up to me and asked if they could take a picture. And I said, no. And I felt really guilty. I just didn't like, I was like, I am so appreciative. You're amazing. I just like, I was like on the verge of tears based on something I was going through.

32:32And I've always felt really about that because I felt like I wasn't showing up as, you know what I mean? That resonates so hard. I can't even stand it. Like my best self. And, and I could feel her disappointment. Again, I'm a super sensitive, energetic being. And I remember feeling like just a piece of after that. And again, I'm nobody. And it just, it brings tears to my eyes now because I was just like, damn it, Marie, why couldn't you have just smiled and like took a picture and made someone else's day you look I'm tearing up saying it anyway no it just resonates so hard I mean there has been I remember when this is like so sad I wrote about it and um love that story but like I had a cat who I just like loved so much and he fell out of the window of my apartment building and died when we were filming Queer Eye oh god it was season five in Philly and he like I woke up at seven in the morning, couldn't find him.

33:25I thought like I, like when I got Uber Eats the night before, I thought like he went out the front door or something. And so I was like in the hallways, like, like bug, but like looking for him. Meanwhile, the air conditioning in the building had broken. So it was like, it was like August, it was like really hot. So like I cracked this window that was like, it's like a Swiss cheese window. It like didn't go up and down like this. It like went, you know, like this. So it was like two inches. This cat was like a big ass, like one year old cat. So I didn't think he could like, it's not like the window was like open wide.

33:54It was like not an irresponsible, like big ass window. I go down to the front desk. I'm like, did someone turn in my cat? Like, I feel like I left him on like the, like, you know, whatever the floor that I was on and her face just like totally changed. And I, I, it was like a movie. Like I could like see the air conditioner thing being broken. I could see me like opening it. And then she was like, we've, we found him this morning. I'm so sorry. Like he's in the back. And I just like crumpled, like I crumpled to the ground sobbing. I will never forget this man coming out of the elevator, walking his dog, and he stepped over me like fashion roadkill and Sex and the City, and the lady who had just told me that they had found Bug was like, because this man just walked over and I was like, I mean, I was giving you Nancy Kerrigan.

34:32I was giving you just screaming in agony. I just could not believe it, but here's the worst part, other than what had happened. Good Morning America had done this prize giveaway where five people got to come watch us filming like uh like the scene when we like watch how some we call it like the loft scene and so we were filming a loft scene at like 9 30 that morning so like I called our showrunner and I was like girl there's like no way I can't like I can't be myself today like I can't and when I got upstairs to tell her that like all the cabinets were still open and like the closet was open because I had been like looking for him because I just thought I like because like if you have a cat like you know like you sometimes they get into a closet you shut the door like and like it was just like Like, other than, like, honestly, it's, like, top three most traumatizing things that's ever happened to me in my life.

35:19Like, it really was just, like, worst, craziest, saddest. So, but anyway, I think the day that we filmed it was that I had, like, really morbid humor. I remember they kept this line in the show, but I said, I was like, oh, Tan, I was like, I love your shirt. And I was like, I think my grandma was buried in something just like it. And I just could not stop making, like, the darkest jokes. And these fans came from GMA. And I was just, like, beside myself. and like could not like be my normal self then because I'm very stable and handle grief really well that day like some of my team had like come to Philly to just like be with me when we because we wrapped it like two that afternoon I remember my agent was like what are we like what do you want to do and I was like I'm gonna go get two kittens like I don't I have like no grieving time on my schedule like I can't lose a cat right now I'm just gonna like put two kittens and like this like bug the because I had a cat that passed away when we were filming in season three who was like 12 he just died of like natural you know old causes he was like my first baby bug the first so this is bug the second and I was like well I can't get a bug the third that's like just too much so I got these like two really cute cats Matilda and Genevieve but then when I got back to the apartment I was like the air conditioning's broken now I have two even smaller cats so I just like hotboxed in this little in this like little one bedroom apartment in Philly with like a broken air conditioner it just it I can't even remember oh yeah so there's that but when when that happened I remember I made a post and I made that post for people to be like, don't like for this week.

36:43Like, I know I won't be doing a picture. I will not be my normal self. If I seem like a crazy person, it's cause like, like big T trauma just happened. And I just get, I'm not like my normal self. Interestingly though, with the whole like pictures and just like, and you know, selfies, I was so excited to do them. I did them all the time for like the, like, you know, the first like two or three years. Then I had a one-eyed reactive dog named Pablo, who I ultimately had to rehome. because he bit like nine people, like my mom, my husband, my old assistant and a random electrician, just like he was a biter.

37:13He had like major dog PTSD. So when people would come close to me, I just didn't want to end up on the news. But then I felt so guilty about saying no to selfies that I realized that it's easier for me to just say yes. So even if like my arms hanging off, even like, no, like literally, like I had like this other, like really like tragic, like thing happened and not to say, but I mean, I just had like a tragic death in our family in 2023. And even when that happened, I remember like I was in the airport, like flying, like after I just found out and this lady needed a selfie and I just like, I don't know if it's healthy for my mental health.

37:47I just, but after I did go through like a one year period where I felt like I could say no. And then after doing it, like I probably said no, like 10 times, like a good, like 10 times for various reasons. ranging from I don't feel like it to bad day to whatever. And then after just saying, I was like, I'm just going to do it. Even if I look like, even if I don't want to, I just do it now. That was my other thing, especially because I live in New York and I often run into people on the street where, you know, like. When do I ever look cute? I was just like, well, that's, it also came back to my own self-love because then I was having like my own perfectionist just bullshit of like, oh, I have to, and I don't wear a ton of makeup, but it's like, I do not wake up like this.

38:27You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. Like there's like doing some work here. And so I just got over myself and now I'm like, you know what? I'm a loving human. And if this amazing other loving human, I happen to get the privilege to like meet them and somehow my work has touched their heart. I'm a yes. Yes. You know what I mean? Unless there's something going on where I can verbally say, oh my goodness, I just don't have it. You know what I mean? And I can connect with them. Anyway, thanks for talking about that. No, of course. It's my pleasure. It's like so fun. Okay, so let's talk about the fact that you're just like, I love how prolific you are.

39:04So Netflix show, you know, Getting Better, your podcast, Hair Caroline, and comedy, which we're going to talk about in a minute. I'm going to make us go a little faster because I can't lose you because there's so much to talk about with you because it's so good. Or we're just going to have to do round two. How do you know when an idea is worth saying yes to? Do you have an internal green light system that you've kind of learned to cultivate? You really taught me a lot about this. Oh, I love that. Yeah. You really taught me a lot about this. You know, I. Even your own internal creative ideas. Do you know what I mean?

39:34Like how, because it's like you always got a lot going on. Yeah. I think I just know when I'm really passionate about it. Yeah. I know when I, I, I totally, I'm really good at identifying a full body. Yes. I'm not as good yet at identifying a full body. know. Cause I feel like sometimes I just, I'm such a, like my busy bee, like my worker part is just like, I will figure this out. Um, so I got that too. Yeah. Everything is figured out. Like we can figure this out. Um, but so that part is like a little harder, like being like, maybe I don't have the time or maybe like, it's, it's really hard for me to say this is not a priority for me right now.

40:14That's so hard for me to say. Yes. Um, but it's something I've learned. So I feel like that's easier for me to identify than full body. No. Yes. Cause I also feel like a non-binary person. Yeah. I say this is a joke, but it's like true. I hate like this or that. Yeah. Like full body. Yes. Or full. Like I just feel like binaries. Maybe. Yeah. And it's like, I just feel like binaries and it's like, yes and no, like black and white thinking. I do feel like it like gets us into trouble unless it's like really, really obvious. Like don't murder someone, you know, don't assault. So like, there's like some things are like very obviously easy yeses or nos, but a lot of other stuff, it is a little bit more nuanced.

40:48And I wonder if we created a category almost like where I, this just came to me right now where it's almost just like a little, I talk about things like it's on my, like my side burner, you know, where it's going to hang out over here for a little bit and we're going to keep her cute and we're going to keep her warm and she's maybe incubating. Right. And then it's like, Oh, it just might not be your time at this moment. Yeah. Yeah. We'll go into that little grab bag later. Okay. I love that. Staying with Creative Powerhouse, running a media empire, you have so many great projects. What are, like, whether it's been key hires or key people, like a manager, a producer, a personal, an agent, executive assistant, like, is there anyone that you were like, holy cow, you can see the before and after, like, before I had this person, not that it was a show, but you were like this and you're like, after these key people, you know, my life has gotten better.

41:41Like I have someone on my team, for example, my VP of operations, we've been together for like 12 years. She's like my, I don't even know how to explain it. She's like my other half in a work sense. Her brain works so differently than mine. Like we share values and value system and we think about money the same way and we laugh the same way. We make stupid jokes in the same way, but she's got such a different skillset than I do. And honestly, I don't think I'd be sane or here if it wasn't for her. You know what I mean? Like it was such a big, big difference when she came into my life. That's major.

42:13Yeah. Um, I feel like I have a role that's like my head of operations, um, that role and also it's been so hard. I will, it's like figuring that out, like feel like figuring out like how for me to be a manager and a leader, figuring out like what, cause I think my things that take up most of my time, it's like JVN hair, my podcast, queer eye, when we're filming and then like comedy and like writing. Yes. Like those are all like the things that like buckets. Yeah. And figuring out like what I need on my team versus like what maybe my podcast needs versus like what JVN hair needs and how like my company interacts with JVN hair.

42:50Cause like, I don't own JVN hair. It's like a different thing, but you know, I'm a founder and I like interact with them and I'm really involved. So it's, it's been like a long dance, but I think really the one that has made the biggest difference is I have, I got a new business manager and they are so hardcore, um, and scary. And like my old man, like my old business manager and like, and God bless them. Cause I mean, I was like with them for 10 ,000 years. I'm someone who like, I really don't like to switch. I like to like I'm loyal to a fall but sometimes it like can hurt me so that's like something I'm like kind of working through but um and it all started because again my podcast I interviewed Tori Dunlap financial feminist I don't know if you've ever heard of her she has this pod it's her first 100k yes yes yes I'm obsessed with her I love her so much and my old answer to like stress was just like work more yeah like I mean the overhead that I got myself into and then like hiring all these people and like doing everything.

43:49Cause I like, I, I like, I was like, oh my God. And so I just like, I just kept working and just kept saying yes. And then like, but I never could say no. And I never had time off. And I was just like, oh my God, I'm freaking out. And I was like, how do you even do this? Um, because for years I would just like work, work, work. And then I would impulse buy, impulse buy, uh, then I would realize it was like September. And then I'd be like, oh, I got to pay like how much on taxes in December. And then I would like run myself in circles. Um, and I was just stressed all the time. Then these people were like, so Tori Dunlap was like, this is what I do.

44:20And then I got these business managers that aligned. And so now, honey, I understand my budget. I understand my P and L's. I know what an EBITDA is. I like, I, I get it. Uh, and I actually budget now. And like, so, and I, you know, sometimes I f*** up and like, I don't exactly get to where, but my impulsivity is so much better. Um, and just kind of like eyes wide open knowing what, but the really uncomfortable part for this for me has been because I'm so impulsive and I like things to go fast. I made these really impulsive decisions with like living arrangements and like, you know, my house and stuff like in 2022.

44:54And I've been having to like sit with the consequences of that for like so long. And even with these business managers, the impulsivity, just like all of it, it's, it's been really interesting. I just turned 38. I feel like I'm at that age where I'm like, oh, it really is your decision making. It really is like, yes, it's your community. Yes. It's how you're supported, but also it's ultimately like how you set yourself up and like no one ever will care about your outcome as much as you will. So you do have to kind of like make decisions so that you're not setting yourself up to like be impulsive or, you know, have your like cope, your maladaptive coping strategies coming out and like taking care of you when you're overwhelmed.

45:36Yes. So that's been a lesson. Yeah, it is. And I think it's an ever-evolving dance. I remember there was a time like in my company where, you know, we had over 40 people. And I just, I love taking care of people. It's part of my soul and it's part of who I am. And then I was coming to a new stage in my life where I was like, I just want lighter and leaner and, you know, all kinds of stuff. So I think it is. It's like an ever-evolving dance with who we want to be and how we want to express ourselves. but I'm so happy to hear that you're, this is like, and by the way, we can talk about this so much offline because I love money and I love talking about it and I love helping people just become free, whatever that means for them.

46:16And it has every different shade and shape and no one's the same, but it's like, it's such a, it's such a worthwhile journey. Anyway, we'll talk, we'll talk more about that. I want to shift onto comedy. So I just watched your comedy special literally really last night, fun and slutty. Thank you for watching it. So good. Um, you're so funny, like on queer eye, you're so funny, but I'm so curious. Like I think you now have done three full shows, right? So hot and healed is the newest. And I saw you just added new dates. We have a lot of viewers in Australia. You do? Yes. So I know you have new dates in the fall.

46:50I am. Yeah. I'm going in, it's going to be September and October, September and October. It's like, they always like straddles a month, but yeah, I'm going to be in Auckland, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane. And I love Adelaide. I have this like obsession with Adelaide because it has a half an hour time zone and I just like can't get over it. Like I just, and every time I perform there, like my whole set goes out the window and I just like freak out about their half hour time zone. I can't believe people could still come see me there. Cause I just, you know, half my set's going to be about your 30 minute time zone.

47:19Do you know about this? No, I don't. I'm like, my mind is being blown. they have so like okay it would be like if new york was like it was like 10 o 'clock here but then like in jersey it was 10 30 oh my gosh like it's a half an hour time zone like in adelaide it's a half an hour i can't i think it's a half an hour behind sydney wow so it's not an hour it's like so like on the tv it'll be like 10 30 sydney like 10 o 'clock but also there's a lot of 15 45s they'd be they'd be like they'd be like 10 15 sydney 9 45 adelaide and there's something about I know you got to keep yourself on your toes like niche like loving of niche things like that really like triggers me okay I have to ask how like when did you know that you wanted to do stand-up and how far between the idea like I want to do a stand-up show between you getting your ass on stage and doing it because for me it feels like being funny there's a big chasm between being funny and having material to do a whole set um it all started with Gay of Thrones and so that was like this recap series that I did on funny or die.

48:21We started it in like 2013. And this client of mine, whose hair I had done for 15 ,000 years, she's like, are you watching game of Thrones? And I was like, Oh honey. And then I like did this like impromptu recap. And she was like, that's a web series. So that's how we started that. It ended up getting nominated for like three Emmys for like short form variety series. And it was actually like one of the, like the first time that the Emmys ever did a short form variety series, which was their way of saying web series. We were like one of their inaugural nominees. We got, we lost to James Corden three times, but it's fine.

48:46Um, so, but you know, nominations are also super cool. So, uh, no, but seriously, thank you Academy. I love you. Um, if you're watching this. So, uh, so that, so the C the second season of that, we got to do Margaret Cho and I, I was driving and I was at a red light and my Twitter like came through and I was like, Margaret Cho had like been like, how do I get in your chair? And I notorious CHO and like her standup from like 2000 to 2002 on And like, um, but Notorious CHO was the first like comedy special that I ever got. And it's the only thing I've ever shoplifted. I don't think they can sue me anymore from Blockbuster, but it was like, I think it was like NC 17 and I was like 12 and my mom wasn't going to let me do it.

49:22And I had saw her on TV on like the late night comedy central stuff. And I really wanted to watch that special. Um, and I just fell in love with her. I fell in love with standup. She got me into like other comedians, like Lisa Lampanelli, Wanda Sykes. Um, that I just grew up watching like all the Queens of comedy. So I always loved standup and appreciated it. but I never thought like I could be a standup comedian. So then when Margaret got in my chair and we did gay of Thrones, the first thing she said to me, like after like three, like it wasn't the very first thing, but like we did a couple of lines and she's like, you're meant to be a standup comedian.

49:53And I was like, I meant to be your hairdresser. Where do you live? And she had just wrapped drop dead diva, which had been on lifetime for like nine seasons. She just moved back to LA. She was like, I don't have a hairdresser right now. So I was like, please let me be your hairdresser. So I become her hairdresser. She asks me to like come with her to a couple of shows. I start to see how comedy works. And by like 2015, I had a couple of friends that asked me to do some open mic nights. I did like a five minute here. I did a 10 minute there. So between 15 and 18, I probably did like 10 times just getting up, like writing little things at the salon.

50:22You know, someone would invite me to do like an open mic. So I did it like 10 times, but I never made money from it. And I just was like, and I liked it, but I was like, I'm not going to like get up at like 11 o 'clock at night. Like when I have to go to do a client at like seven in the morning on a Saturday, I just, my priority was in the salon. And, but I was like, this is cool. It's like a fun thing to, to work. And I also felt like it helped me with gay of Thrones, like be funny in the moment and be used to like being uncomfortable while being watched. Yes. So I feel like it was like a good, like cross training thing for whenever I did gay of Thrones.

50:51But then obviously when queer I happened, then all of a sudden, like, you know, my followers went up, you know, my platform went up. And so then all of a sudden it was like, do you want to headline improv? Do you want to do like, so then I started doing like Caroline's comedy, Hollywood improv, of like, you know, like smaller, like, but you know, really iconic comedy clubs. Then by like April of 2019, I was like selling out radio city. And what's interesting about that though, is that like, I was not ready. My comedy was not ready for radio city. And I actually, I think my comedy career, it's been interesting because I got overexposed and did all of these venues that like my comedy wasn't ready for.

51:30It wasn't good enough, like straight up. Like I can admit it. It was not good enough. Um, you're still growing. I was still growing. I mean, that was like, I mean, that was like, and I was doing like our sets when I was like, I mean, I should have still been like workshopping that and like little clubs, but I was doing it at radio city. So that actually, I think kind of negatively impacted my comedy career, like getting too big, too fast. And then I had to kind of like go back and like, and just kind of work from like the bottom back up again. Um, so now when I do, and now, also I've just learned so much about like the scene and how it works.

52:02Like when you're like, so I did like, um, imagining living room Olympian, then I, or I did road to Beijing. Then I did imagining living room Olympian. Then I did fun and slutty now hot and healed. So it's like now when I'm getting something together, I don't do it in theaters. Like I do it in little comedy clubs. Cause that's how you're supposed to do it. And you never film your special until you've been running your show for like at least a year or two, which I used to think that that I thought I needed like a new tour, like every, no, like you're supposed to be working on your show for like a year, two years.

52:33So from the time I had the idea until when I started doing, it was like pretty fast, but it took me like 10 years to get to where I am. That's amazing. It's just, I loved, I was having so much fun last night just watching you. Thank you for watching. I was on a United flight the other day and I like saw on a United flight and it made me like kind of emotional, like being a queer comedian it's like hard anyway and like comedy is like really such like historically is like such an all bros club yeah so for anybody that's like queer black woman disabled just any marginalized community that's like not a straight man uh or straight white guy it is like a little harder to get your foot in and also when you're not um when you're not what everyone else is finding ways to like make that be funny or relatable to like a lot of people is even harder which is why a lot of our comedians are I think more in line gender and you know sexual or their sexuality and their gender norms and their the way that they look it informs your comedy like your life experience informs your comedy yeah obviously and so I do think that that's like why so many like cishet people are really successful in this space because they're seen as more relatable.

53:50So it's even harder for someone that's like in a dress that's, you know, assigned male at birth, that's genderqueer, that's like doing their own thing. It's, it's harder to break through. And I think that that, and I also just would say like Veeps, that's like the place that bought my special and put it on. I just am so grateful that they believed in me. They gave me this shot. They like, they let me edit my material. They like, it was just amazing. I had such a fun experience doing it. I hope I get to do it again. Yeah. I think you will. I think you will. It feels like you're, you're just, you're so good at it.

54:20And I loved you were telling about how the first time when you were in Australia, like, and you told the HIV joke and I just loved that you were just like, it just fell flat. Did not work. Yeah. But I also want to talk about this too, because it's, you know, where we started talking about so many people feeling afraid to be judged or to be criticized. And one of the gajillion things that I love and appreciate about you, it's like, hey, I'm going to do this joke and I'm out here and there's literally thousands of people in the crowd and crickets. Yeah. And it fell. And I was just, I just ended up being one of the funniest jokes ever.

54:53Yes. So what was that like of just like that feeling? Like, did you have a sinking in your summer? You're like, Oh my God, this was a stinker. Well, yeah. So just so you guys know, I, this joke was like, I was in Australia. It was like 2022. And I said, I was, I had this bit where I would say like, I'm HIV positive. This was my second pandemic. And, um, and, but everyone else when I had been doing that joke was like living for it. Uh, but for some reason I, and I don't remember what city I was in. I can't remember if it was what city I was in, but it just like, no one laughed and all the wind just like left the room.

55:25And I felt in the moment, I felt like a lot of shame because I was like, Oh, like people must think like, who is it? Like the HIV? Like, why do people like, why is no one laughing? But then I realized I was like, girl, it's a language barrier. I don't think they understood how you said H because like down there, they don't say age like that they say hi well then when you slipped into and i watched it last night and you did that whole australian i was just like your physical comedy is really good i think that's really where i shine you well you shine a lot of places but also like there was one moment where you were squatting oh yeah in the dress and like squat and you just went around oh god that i was like losing my shit i hope they don't deport me i oh no it's i feel like they're gonna start i feel like, I'm going to be like top of their list, girl.

56:14I hope they don't watch it. I really need this administration. And I just need like, I really need like, I need no Republicans to watch fun and slutty on United. No, no, no, no. It's so, it's so funny. There needs to be a new rating system for like, no, like NRA, like no Republicans allowed. It's like, we'll like rebrand the NRA, you know, like no Republicans allowed girl. Like it just, it's not safe. Oh my God. You're going to keep doing amazing comedy and it's going to be brilliant. Okay. So you're insanely good at being the light for other people. I often am for the folks in my life and I have some symbols.

56:49Like my best friend, if I am like in a spiral, you know what I mean? Or has just gone sideways and I'm like, you know, there's alarm lights. I send an ambulance emoji like that. That's it. So, you I don't have to send any words. It's just like the moment you are free, I am needing to phone a friend. Who is the person or people that you call, you know what I mean, when you're like, I need to phone a friend moment? It really depends on what. The context. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually, I think like 95 % of the time it's going to be my husband. Yeah. I think my mom's also up there. If it's a family situation, my mom.

57:31Yeah. like I'm like can you believe what this just did yeah yeah yeah so if it's family or like interpersonal probably my mom or like my husband uh if it's like if it's interpersonal if it's business then it's like someone else who kind of like knows about it yeah yeah yeah but I do have like two of my best friends like I definitely really appreciate their advice um probably like more than other yeah I just like prioritize it like a little bit higher yeah there's like two people. One, because she is fully on the spectrum and, uh, she just doesn't, she gives it to me harsh, gives it to me real just, I mean, she doesn't, she's not sugarcoating anything.

58:10Whereas my other bestie, she is equally as real, but she has a little bit more like she can see if I'm like bleeding out, like it's not the time. Like she'll like, you know, like she could be like a little bit more gentle. Um, whereas my other bestie is like, she's like wrecking ball Miley Cyrus like she's gonna tell you like that thing that like you know all of your friends talk about about you but like no one like wanted to tell you like she's gonna tell you that thing like at the funeral for like you know your mom's funeral or something totally but god love her I mean I can't get enough of her I love her so much she's like she had that bestie is like so she has this healing part speaking of IFS that is like so major like it's like it's such a like her healing part is just like but then sometimes her healing part like goes offline.

59:00Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I only have you for another moment or two before we need to get you to a very important meeting. Um, last two questions. You have so many beautiful projects already in the cooker. Um, is there any of them that are like just bringing you so much life and so much joy right now that you just want to shine some more light on? And then if there's anything that you want to leave our audience with today? I mean, I feel like I did it or I feel like we left on the dance for like, I'm JVN here. We have some really cool things coming out this year. I'm really excited for Let Them Stare.

59:31We're going to do more with JVN here, by the way, because you're the air dry cream. Legendary. Like let's, let's do some natural wave. This is just a blowout that thanks to JVN. Blowout milk. I love our blowout milk. This is air dry cream. Yeah. Well, the air dry cream is what's saving me because it's making my last longer. So people talk to me about this and I never use air dry cream for this, but people talk about it being like really good for refreshing a blow dry. It's refreshing and it's an extender in my experience. So we're going to do more about that. So, okay. We talked about obviously let them stare, bringing you so much joy.

1:00:03Yes. Oh wait, you guys are filming next season. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. You don't have to go there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. We love it. And whenever it comes back, I would say, I mean, look, they're, they're casting. Yes. I mean, they talked about it. Yeah. I mean, they talked about it. Okay, good. Yeah. So I think, I think it just, yeah. Yes. Whatever. But anyway, whenever it arises, um, I'm going to be there with my popcorn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Any other projects, anything else that we want to shine a light on? I think, no, just getting better every Wednesday.

1:00:29We kind of like redid our, like our Monday episodes. I used to do beauty where I like, I was always like interviewing like beauty founders, which was really fun. And I loved it. Then I realized I felt like I was trying to create like two really excellent, perfect podcasts. And then I felt like it was like detracting from each other. And so then I just wanted to like, our senior producer, Chris has been one of my best friends for like 10 years. We met in LaGuardia in 2015. We've been working together for the last like four years. They helped me produce Getting Curious for Netflix. I just, I love them.

1:01:00Their husband is our sound engineer. And so we wanted to give like, and we're all queers, like just having fun making this, well, it's not always fun, but making this podcast, like getting through it. And so the Monday edit is like really where I wanted to take like politics, culture, the behind the scenes of my life, of Chris and I's lives. We also do like listener questions on the Monday edit. So we kind of rebranded our Mondays again. So that's the Monday edit. It's not on video, it's just wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can get on the Getting Better feed. And then our Getting Better is every Wednesday, which you can get on YouTube or wherever you listen.

1:01:31Perfect. So we're loving that. So anything else you want to leave the audience with? No? No, no. Yeah, yeah. What else do I want to leave the audience with? I think take care and midterms. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I'm excited for midterms next year. Yes. Well, you're just such a joy and I adore you and love you. Yes. And we'll have more fun. So thank you for being on and thanks everyone for watching. Until next time, stay in your game, keep going for your big dreams because the world needs that very special gift that only you have. Oh my goodness. You're incredible. You're still listening. Now look, if you enjoyed this podcast, I think you're going to really love my free audio training called How to Get Anything You Want.

1:02:18You're going to learn three strategies that'll give you the clarity and confidence to build your dreams on your terms. Just Google Marie Forleo, How to Get Anything You Want, and you can download this audio training for free right now. Enjoy it.