490 - Feeling Behind in Life? Find Relief in Laura Belgray's "Tough Titties"

0:00Marie Forleo:Laura Belgray is the founder of Talking Shrimp and my partner on The Copy Cure. She's been featured in Fast Company, Money Magazine, Forbes, Vox, and Business Insider. She's also written for Fandango and Bravo and NBC and HBO and Nick at Night, Nickelodeon, TV Land, VH1, Lifetime, and so much more. Belgray lives here in New York City and except for college has never lived anywhere else. Can you believe it? Her book, Tough Titties, is available wherever wherever books are sold. Dude, Belgray, you did it. Like, congratulations. We're going to talk so much about it. So there's likely going to be explicit language.

0:36Marie Forleo:So if you're like super sensitive, we're going to talk about some things. You need to put your headphones in or just choose not to listen to this one, but do not send me like dear Marie mails. Like, why are you so unprofessional? No, I don't want to hear it. So back to you. Tough titty. That's, you know, what we would say to them? Tough titties. Tough titties. You got complaints about the language? Tough titties. Tough titties. That's what we're saying. Honestly, I have never been on a podcast that didn't have an E next to it for my episode. Yeah. Are you serious? Yeah. That's really cool. I didn't know that.

1:07Good track record.

1:08Marie Forleo:Really good track record. So I know tough titties was tough titties to actually write. And we're going to talk about that. But before we get into process and all the fun things. What was the core inspiration to write this particular book? And what are you hoping that readers get out of it? Yeah, great question. Well, as you know, I always wanted to write a book. Yes, forever. Yes, forever. And I wanted to write a book of my stories. And I was writing my stories. And I still didn't know what is this? What is the theme? What is the title? What is this book about? That was the biggest struggle for me.

1:44And I found myself saying one day, the working title was New Dork City. Oh, really? Yeah, coming of age. I mean, that was how I thought it was shaping up, like coming of age story of a dork misfit in New York in the 80s and 90s. But then it was so much more than that. And I found myself saying something that I say all the time, which was, well, tough titties, which is to me kind of the ultimate sorry, not sorry, for, in my view, and in my life, for being a not-supposed-to person. Like, you want me to do things this way. You want me to drive a car, learn how to roast a chicken, have children, tough titties.

2:30You want—

2:31Marie Forleo:Ain't going to happen. Ain't going to happen. You want me to do my business this way. You want me to work nine to five, Tough Titties. So that's where the impetus and the title came from. And then as I was writing it and thinking about who's going to read this book, what is it going to do for them? I mean, most of all, I wanted people to laugh out loud and tell me, you kept me up till four, three nights in a row, thanks a lot. And I'd say, Tough Titties. But I also wanted to give people feeling of relief of like, good, I'm not alone. And feeling behind and feeling like a late bloomer in doing things, in taking the windy path in life or not defining success the way everybody else defines it.

3:16So that's where it started to shape up when I realized like, these are the themes in my book and this is what I want someone to get out of it when they read it.

3:24Marie Forleo:Yeah. And you know, you and I have known each other over 20 years now, which is crazy pants. It's our anniversary. Oh my, it is our anniversary. Oh my God. That's so cool. That's really fun. Oh, we should, we're going to have to do like lots of fun things about that. But here's what's so cool about us. And I feel like we both have so many things in common and we love each other so dearly. And we're also like so opposite in so many ways, right? So that, which is awesome. And like your, I think where we align so much is this notion of defining success on your own terms and being a little different and also having very sophomoric humor.

4:03Marie Forleo:And you know what I mean? Being 12. Yes, being 12 all the time. And when Stephen, your husband, and Josh, they'll say, we're just like, shut up. Leave us alone. It's so fun. But the process of writing this book, which I always think is so interesting because as you and I know, we have the copy cure. We know the stats. I think up to 80 % of people say they have a book in them and they want to write it. And so many people, I think it's 92 % actually don't do it. And people read your emails, people engage with your writing. You have such a beautiful, unique, funny voice. You're brilliant as a writer.

4:41Marie Forleo:And I know because we're super close friends, this book was fucking hell to get out of you. So do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because again, the impetus of the book is to help people feel less alone. And if they admire you, so many people are like, oh my God, Laura Belge's writing, and then they know how tough it was. I think it'll make people feel better. I totally agree. I think sharing your struggles and the moments when you were crying and maybe considering giving back your book advance. Yes. We talked about that. To people. We did. I mean, it was so helpful to me to hear from you.

5:14You know what? I went through the same thing.

5:16Marie Forleo:Oh my God. That book almost killed me. Not legitimately, but like soulfully and like, you know, ego wise. Yeah. Yeah. And this book almost killed me. I mean, you saw me. It was almost a full year and definitely a full summer of me blocking off every day for book. It would say on my calendar, book. That's it. Book writing day. And I would open my laptop to the manuscript in a Google Doc, look at it for a minute, and then get up and pace, and then watch some Netflix, and then watch some Vanderpump Rules, read a book that would either make me feel like I'll never be able to write a book like this, or that was just garbage.

6:02that made me feel a little better. Like cry, worry my husband, consider like, oh, so this is why people do drugs. I remember saying to a friend like, oh, I wish there were a pill I could take that like just made me feel super confident about my writing. And just let like, so I would just power through it, just sit down and pour out writing onto the page. And they're like, I think that's called cocaine. Yeah.

6:30Marie Forleo:Or, um, no, there's the one like the limitless drug with, remember that movie? Did you not see that movie with Bradley Cooper? It was like the whole limitless thing. Oh my God. Yeah. No, I remember in like some, it was, I don't know, years ago, but it was like this pill that he took that made him like super. And I think it's actually based on, I don't know if it's Adderall or something like that. I've never taken it, so I have no idea, but I get it. Um, but, uh, and I also remember just feeling because I love you so much and I know you so well, like when it was so struggly and not being able to do anything.

7:00You know what I mean? I was so stuck. And you kept reminding me, like, you do this every day. Like, you know, you write emails so easily and they're so awesome. And my friend Susie also, who is British, so she said it like this. She said, well, you write emails like that. You know, you write emails every day. These are just emails with a spine. I was like, but it's not. It is not the same. Yeah. A lot of it had poured out of me. For several months, I'd written all this stuff that I thought was really good. And I had been kind of not really workshopping it, but submitting it in this pod, in this group of writers I was in.

7:40But our instructions were only to give each other positive feedback. Like, this is where it's really strong. And I believe in this. It's called the gateless method, and it's awesome, and it points out what you're doing right. and it does not involve the inner critic. But then there comes a point, and this point came from my editor, when it does require some criticism and structure. And so I handed all this. My editor had said, give me a couple sample chapters by X date. And she probably meant two or three. And I had been working on all this stuff that I liked, and I didn't know the shape of it yet, I didn't know where it was going, really, but I was like, this is good stuff.

8:23So I handed her more than two or three chapters. I handed her everything that I had been working on that I liked. And the book was contracted for 75 ,000 words. That was supposed to be the manuscript length. And what I gave her, the working stuff, was 85 ,000 words. And she came back to me. She kept calling it the manuscript. I'm like, no, that's just the sample chapters. but she kept saying, referring to the manuscript. And she was like, the manuscript is a little bit all over the place. Where's the voice here? What are you trying to say? I was like, where's the voice? I am voice. That's my thing.

9:02You're asking me, where's the voice? And she was like, you know, your readers, yes, they say they want your stories. They love reading your stories and anything that you write, but they want your wisdom. They want takeaways. They want to know. That was really hard for you. It was super hard to feel like I had to go into the material, into every chapter, every story that I was telling, and realize that it wasn't a story yet. It was an anecdote. And ask myself, why am I telling this story? What is the point here? What do I want to say? And sometimes it was not evident. I didn't know why. I don't know why I'm talking about this adventure that my friends and I had with a world-renowned director who was a little bit of a sleazebag, and we got into a little thing with him.

9:51I'm like, it's just funny. I just think it's a funny story. And I had to find the meaning. Where's the meaning in this? I had to make every

9:58Marie Forleo:chapter arc to some kind of meaning, which is what we all have to do when we really want to tell a story. You can't end it with, and it was really funny. In a fried voice. Right. Okay. So let's get into some of the stories. So you're like super brutally honest about so many things in the book, but especially your younger years. And it seems like there was some pivotal lessons that carried you forward. So you write the key to creativity, business, art, self-expression, and the kind of success I value is to remind yourself that life is not sixth grade. In fact, it's the opposite. Standing out is where it's at.

10:35Marie Forleo:Tell us more. Yes. Standing out is where it's at. And this is when you're a grownup in business or just in life itself. I think all of us learn, especially in middle school, that fitting in is where it's at. You tried to fit in so bad. I tried so hard to fit in. I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. And most of it was a flop. But so what you're reading is from the chapter called Deb Fishbone Likes This. And it is about me hate following my sixth grade bully on social media years later, like in current times. And what she did to me. And it's your pretty standard fare. She didn't beat me up or anything like that, but she stole my best friend and got me kicked out of my friend group.

11:25And then the worst thing that she did, even that was horrible, like it was a year of hell. But I had written this piece for English class, like a creative writing assignment that was not at all an autobiographical story, I like to say, about someone named Liddy, not Laura, because it was totally not me, who went to a different private school in New York City. totally not my school. And I was really pleased with it. So it was called, yeah, Lydia and Me. And I had it, it was handed back to me, probably with an A, and I had it in the lunchroom. And Deb Fishbone, my sworn enemy, grabbed it out of my hands while I was like, hey, hey, that's mine.

12:10And she started reading it aloud to everybody. And she just had a knack, like a radar for your vulnerability, your hot buttons. And she flips to a page where it says, I have good friends, but I feel like I'm losing them slowly. And she read it out loud and goes, this is you. And I was like, what? No, it's not. It's fiction. Duh. You never heard of fiction? And she was like, no, this is you. And I have never felt so called out in my life, like just so very vulnerable. And it was one of those moments that taught me falsely, but it was a lesson that I learned in that moment. Like, it is not safe to be me.

12:57It's not safe to express myself, to stand out. Fitting in is everything. Standing out is death. And I'm pretty sure that's why, A, I stopped writing for a very long time. Like, I just didn't want to put myself on the page. and B, I tried so hard to fit in for so many years. And also, you know, we all want to belong. So I still love the feeling of belonging. I'm still always looking for that feeling that I call the peach pit feeling based on 90210, which didn't exist at the time, but it was something I always wanted. They all gather at this coffee shop, a malt shop called the peach pit after school.

13:39And I always wanted that feeling of like a group, my group, and belonging. But as an adult, I have come to understand and remind myself constantly whenever I have that feeling of like somebody's not going to like this. Yes. Someone's going to be mad at me. Someone's going to, you know, tear me down for saying I like this thing. Life is not sixth grade. And one person disliking you or several people disliking you cannot ruin you.

14:09Marie Forleo:Yes. When you're an adult. It can when you're in sixth grade. Yes. It can ruin your life. When you're an adult, you're okay. You just have to remind yourself of that. And I like to say, unless they sue you and then they can ruin you. Stay away from that one. So you finished college and you gave yourself some space and some time and you wrote, you write this, I love it. Be a disappointment for a while. It could be the best thing you do for your future. What do you mean by that? And you know, for me, I love also talking about, I'm like the queen of disappointment. Yes. Another thing we have in common, but tell me what you mean by that in terms of being a disappointment for a little bit.

14:43Yeah. I mean, that was based on my full year after college where I lived at home. I lived at home till 26. So that was not unique. But I lived at home, went semi looking for bartending jobs. I wanted to be a bartender. I had this image of, you know, having like fistfuls of cash and making it rain and pouring shots down people's throats, even though I didn't drink and like working side by side with like Tom Cruz and maybe Rob Lowe. Your dream. That would have been everything. Totally. And having this wild social life. I didn't try that hard looking for bartending jobs. I finally scored one, but I spent most of my days going out.

15:27My work day would start at 11 p.m. when I would shower, get ready to go out, then show up at my favorite bar, hang out there till maybe four in the morning, I, again, I didn't drink. I was drinking Diet Cokes, but I think everyone thought I was like the town drunk. And then wake up, you know, next day around noon, eat, you know, chow cornflakes in my childhood bedroom, watching ABC soaps, go to the gym by Lycra tops because you can never have too many Lycra crop tops for going out in 1991. And that was my, and my dad and my mom would both come into my room every day and say, how's the job hunt going?

16:13And I would say, I'm pounding the pavement. Did you actually believe that? Like when I read that, I was like, Laura Belgray. I did because I did go out one or two days with a stack of resumes under my arm and in a very work appropriate dress and earrings and walk up and down like Columbus Avenue and Amsterdam Avenue asking bar owners if they needed any help. And that took so much out of me. I felt so exhausted and accomplished from doing that, that I really felt like I was pounding the pavement. And sometimes I would look, I would open the paper and look in the classifieds. And any job that appealed to me was I wanted something creative and like, quote, a word I think I might have coined, entertainment-y.

17:02It would say, requires a self-starter or must be detail-oriented. And I was like, nope, that rules me out.

17:13And I learned that self-starter meant it was either printer sales or phone sex.

17:19Marie Forleo:Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole different thing. So taking your time and really not being successful, getting a job and being a disappointment for a little while. What do you feel like that led to for you? Was there a bit of healing? Was there a bit of like recognition of what you actually wanted to do? Yeah. Well, for one thing, it left me open to an opportunity that I never would have been able to take advantage of if I had been out working a job like my friends who are, you know, paralegals and working in a bookstore and doing all the things you're supposed to do. A friend called me at around 11 a.m.

17:57I like to say 10, but I think it was more like 11. And I was like, sorry for waking. I was like, I'm not, oh, I'm not asleep. I'm awake. And she's like, well, I've got, you know, I'm here with this author, Lisa Bernbach, who wrote the Preppy Handbook, which was a huge book back in that time, during the Preppy years. And she's like, and we were fact-checking her Guide to Colleges, a new book that was coming out, and she needs more fact-checkers. Can you come in? And I was like, today? Because I had planned to go to like a step aerobics class and do my thing. She's like, yeah, we need you now. I was like, okay, I will get dressed and go in and do it.

18:36And I did. And that job, first of all, it was really fun. It was exactly what I had kind of hoped for in a job. And it was entertainment-y. And it led to everything else in my life. So for one, just being home, sleeping late, and available for that opportunity. That's the reason I have the life I do now. But, and who knows, it's a sliding doors thing. Like I would have just a totally different life if I had pounded the pavement the way I should have. But also I do feel like I had that year under my belt. I never felt, I didn't feel like, oh, I didn't have time to just loaf around and be me. And I think I needed that.

19:22And I needed time to get a little squirrely and feel like I need to be productive. So yeah, I think it was healing, but also it just, it left a door open for me for other opportunities.

19:38Marie Forleo:Hey, if you want to write faster and make more sales, you got to grab my free seven-day writing class from the link in the description. Every lesson covers a simple but powerful technique to help you write words that make people want to whip out their credit cards and give you money. Go to marielovesyou.com slash free writing class and get instant access to lesson one. Or if you're watching this episode on video, just scan the onscreen QR code right now. Let's talk about how both your parents are a source of inspiration and sometimes a cautionary tale. Like you saw both your dad and your mom, right?

20:11Marie Forleo:Switch careers. Tell us about that because it seems like it planted a seed that it's okay to have a relaxed timeline and it's also okay to change things up, which is very different than what I think a lot of the cultural messaging is. Yes. And especially back then. So my dad, when I was little, and from like the 60s into the 70s, was an industrial engineer for the airlines who worked for American Airlines and then Eastern Airlines and had great perks, travel, you know, could hop on a plane, stand by with my mom and us when we were really little, first class sometimes. and traded all that for becoming a therapist.

20:55He realized that he liked helping people more than he liked, you know, tallying theft of little mini liquor bottles on planes, which was part of his job. And so he went back to school and became a psychoanalyst. And, you know, the drawbacks of that, well, there were a couple of drawbacks. One was that I got probed all the way up my butthole for my feelings constantly, He constantly demanded to know my feelings. He thought therapy was the only answer to everything. He was obsessed with it, obsessed with Freud. He called the book Letting Go Europe. Sorry, it's called Let's Go Europe. It's a travel series.

21:33Let's go Europe, let's go whatever. He called it Letting Go. When I went off for the first time as a teenager, he's read into everything. So that was a pain in the ass. But what I saw was the courage to switch careers. Like he was in his 40s when he did. And it was a big switch and pretty courageous. And he had a good gig working for the airlines. Stable. Right, stable, benefits, et cetera. It took him forever. Another late bloomer to write his thesis and get his PhD. It took him like 10 years. and but another thing that I saw in him was this obsession with what he did for work that I wanted he was so into what he did that he never wanted to retire and he worked until pretty much almost his dying day he still had clients and he would say I never want to stop working.