506 - Self-Care Strategies for When You're Overworked & Underachieving with Latham Thomas

0:00Marie Forleo:Welcome to the Marie Forleo podcast. My guest today is my dear friend Latham Thomas. And if you've never met her before, let me tell you a little bit about her. Latham is a celebrity wellness and lifestyle guru and birth doula who is named one of Oprah's Super Soul 100 and one of MindBodyGreen's Top 100 Women to Watch in Wellness. She's the founder of Mama Glow and has been featured in Vogue, Self, Fast Company, Wall Journal Magazine, Essence, and Fit Pregnancy, among others. She is the proud mother of DJ Fulano, and she lives in New York City. And her latest new book, Own Your Glow, A Soulful Guide to Luminous Living and Crowning the Queen Within, is available now.

0:46Marie Forleo:Latham Thomas, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Marie Forleo Podcast. So good to have you on, woman. Marie, I'm so grateful to be here. What an honor. Well, this new book, Own Your Glow, A Soulful Guide to Luminous Living. This is fantastic. I want to start off with why this book and this message right now. What was the inspiration for this one? The inspiration for this book really came from what I saw as a need for women to embrace self-care, to slow down. I think that there's a force that women move with around like doing too much. And I think that you can achieve more by slowing down and being more intentional and embracing some of the feminine forces that help us to actually create.

1:35So I set out to write the book that sort of helps me with the principles that I use in my own life so that other people could do that themselves.

1:44Marie Forleo:I love it. And I will admit wholeheartedly that I do battle with those same forces every single day. You know, I think part of my DNA, you and I have known each other for years now, part of my DNA, man, I am so wired as a doer. And I will tell you, my own growth edge is slipping into that feminine side. You know, it's something I'm very transparent about. It's like one of my life lessons. And so I really appreciate that you've written this book because I will tell you, my mind certainly throws up some big old obstacles and stop signs and skepticism when it comes to, wait, wait, wait, slow down to get more done.

2:23Marie Forleo:Right, right. But I will tell you, I will tell you when I do that and when I am wise enough to either listen to that own inner voice or sometimes, frankly, it's Josh who gets my ass to slow down. That's right. A lot of good things happen. So thank you. I just want to thank you for writing this and for continuing to support a message that is counter to the cultural narrative of nonstop 24-7, 365, work your eyeballs off. That's right. I mean, we, I mean, everyone's doing that. Everyone's, you know, moving towards achievement. But if we think about like how we get there and what at what cost, you know, most of us are like tired or get sick or, you know, we don't have in other areas of our life that we want fulfillment.

3:13They're not really fleshed out because we're focusing on our and all of our energy on productivity instead of process really. Right. So it's just an invitation for people to look at how they can explore how to really enjoy the process more and and and always check in. Because I think even as business owners and people who are, you know, moving towards entrepreneurship, you have to constantly check in and pivot and make decisions and change your mind and, you know, fail and then get back up. There's so many things you have to do along the journey, but check in as much as possible. And I think that that's a really important thing that I'm asking people to do in this book.

3:57Marie Forleo:Well, you said something that is key that many of us miss, and I do my best to remember it, don't always, I'm not always successful, but I am definitely getting better at it with age, I'll tell you that, is you mentioned the word process. And one of the things that has come to me recently is that it's actually all process. Like all of life is process. There is no destination really. Like if you step back and understand the unfolding of your business or your relationships or your motherhood or your creations, it is all process. So the tools that you're giving us in this book, and we're going to get into some of that in a few minutes, really help us just embrace a more holistic approach, which then makes the process that much more enjoyable.

4:51Marie Forleo:And from my own experience, tends to lead to much better outcomes. And even if it doesn't, damn it, you had a good time along the way. That's right. So let's go in with one of the points you make about the importance of giving dreams they're due. As a single mom, you know this, right? You know what it feels like to be stretched to the max, so to speak, which I know is a feeling that many folks in our audiences, whether they're a single mom or a single dad or a coupled parent, or they have no kids, feeling stretched to the max is something that I think many of us can relate to. But as you share in the book, dreams are free.

5:31Marie Forleo:Talk to us about the value of making time for our dreams, especially when our lives feel so incredibly full? Yeah. So I think, you know, I'm really grateful that I have, um, an incredible partner who supports me and my son and who's with my son right now. And in fact, um, I was a single mom for many years and I think a lot of people will come up with reasons why they can't seek fulfillment or, or really seek to, um, approach their dreams with persistence because of perceived obstacles like having a child or having a child alone. And, you know, for me, I think that when you have something that takes up so much space in your life, not just mental space, emotional, like you have to design your life around taking care of someone else and not to mention making sure that they have food to eat and tuition is paid, like all these things, right?

6:34There's a pressure that is put upon you that you have to step up into. And so you rise to the occasion. I think that, you know, the 24 hours in a day that everyone gets, you learn how to bend time. and I think that if there's really a willingness to succeed in any particular endeavor, then you figure it out. So it's not like I had like a rubric and I was like, okay, here's what I do now at this step. I just had like the looming sense of, you know, impending failure or, you know, like I couldn't not succeed. I didn't have a choice. It wasn't really like there was an alternative except for to just do.

7:21So I think that for each person, when you're looking at like, what is my life going to look like with this child? Or what is my life going to look like with, you know, taking care of a sick parent? Or what is my life going to look like, you know, leaving my job? Like you can't imagine what it'll be like until you're actually in it. But then when you're in it, you have these like downloads and these nuggets of wisdom that come and you actually figure out with ingenuity how to solve problems. So you actually need that to, it's like iron sharpens iron. So you kind of need these tests to help you get over the edge.

8:00Otherwise, sometimes you're not stretched to the point where you can have moments of brilliance. So I really think that it was because of the circumstances of, you know, being a single mom that I had way sharper ingenuity. I had way better problem solving skills. I could juggle way more because there was less time to work with. It's almost like when you're in the kitchen and your refrigerator is full of food, you can't figure out what to eat. And when you only have like five things, you can come up with a masterpiece. It's like sometimes that's what you need to grow, right?

8:32Marie Forleo:So I think that's a big piece. And then how about dreams? Yeah. Let's talk about dreams though. The value of making time for that. Let's say someone listening right now is feeling that stretch to the max for whatever reason. Why should they carve out time to dream? Yeah. So, you know, the dreams are like the blueprint for what's possible. If you, if you settle in the reality of what your experience is right now today and whatever that is circumstantially for you, and you don't create space to, to open up your consciousness around what could be possible. And even things that may be beyond your reach are necessary to have as part of a landscape and a topography of what your life could become.

9:17So the dreams are really important because they're the soil that fuels the purpose of your soul, really. So the making the time includes not just our sleeping so that you can have actual like, you know, dreams while you're resting, but, you know, so subconscious dreaming, but there's also like waking dreams that you have when you're like daydreaming or when you're doodling or when you're meditating, when you have, when you allow yourself to play, you have moments of brilliance and maybe problem solving. So it's not just like, let me write down a whole bunch of goals. That's not really what it is.

9:56It's more like, let me make space for brilliance to come forth so that I can also, you know, pivot in my life the way I need to. But sometimes you can't be just like writing down lists. Sometimes it has to be freeing yourself from the cognitive function of doing something and rather being involved in something that takes your mind out of your day to day life and allows you to have more expansive thought and more expansive. ideas. And so I, yeah, so I think whatever that feels like for you, if there's things that you really love to do that you're not doing enough of, um, in terms of activities, social, um, you know, events that you could be going to, um, things that you're afraid to do, like, um, you know, if you're afraid of heights, like doing something that takes you out of your safety net, that kind of stuff is really important to help us see something bigger.

10:52So So it's about an experiential full existence, right? Yes. And that's what I think we really need to call ourselves to do more of because if we look at like just what's right ahead of you, like a deadline and bills and all these things, that can really hamper your ability to see beyond.

11:12Marie Forleo:I agree 100%. And I'm telling you, Latham, we are so connected intuitively because I'm looking at my questions, which you don't know what I'm going to ask you. and also you picked up on something I'll mention that I haven't really told anyone so I'll go right to it. This plays perfectly in to the power of playfulness and I will say while I was a bit hard on myself in the beginning saying I can be a doer, again you know that about me, I will give myself a pat on the back and brag I am really fucking good at play. like you are going to play play is a thing that is so just inherent to my life and just to back up your point when I play whether that means dancing or literally playing a game it could be a card game it could be kickball it could be you know playing with a puzzle it could be playing in any way like doing silly voices and sounds and hide and seek kind of things or playing with Kuma, my dog.

12:11Marie Forleo:It's amazing how many ideas and breakthroughs and solutions appear from a piece of my consciousness that is simply not accessible when I am focused in a more cognitive, get it done, trying to access my wisdom kind of way. That's right. Yeah. I mean, for good reason, right? Like when your brain is on and like you're trying to get things done, it takes an enormous amount of energy to stay focused on that thing because your brain is doing a gazillion things at once. Every I mean, every second, there's 800 trillion things happening in your body. So it's like, yes, you your brain would want to focus on that one thing.

12:59But play is so amazing because, you know, when we think about when we were children, that was like the framework for our existence, what was what we could imagine. Right. And so if we think about play for adults, it also allows us to bring back in imagination, bring back in limitlessness. Right. When you start to actually have what I think is a really healthy dose of naivete that comes in, especially for people who are on the path to start something new, it's really important to not have like a ceiling on what's possible for you because you might not even try to achieve that goal or really see the edges of what that dream could look like for you and expand if you feel like there's a limit, right?

13:48So I think that that's what also dream and play offers. And it also allows you to do things that, you know, are silly and like allow you to relax and not take things so seriously. And in that, you know, that energy of ease that you slip into when you're playing, like you said, these little nuggets of, you know, wisdom come through or solution or an idea or an aha. ah so it is like when we kind of finally relax in our body and in our mind where where we allow ourself to have these moments and so you do have to create space for that because it's quite simply like really difficult or really easy to fall into just you know being on a hamster wheel

14:31Marie Forleo:yes and i love that you know the quote in your book one of my favorite quotes with george bernard shaw when he says we don't stop playing when we grow old we grow old because we stop playing And for anyone listening right now who might be going, wow, you know, looking at their birthdays, looking at that calendar and going, how did this happen? How did I get here? I would say, Latham, again, you and I have known each other for quite some time. I think one of the secrets to feeling your best in your body and really liking who you are as a human and continuing to evolve and love your life, especially as we advance in age, is play.

15:11Marie Forleo:And I love one of the things you recommend in the book is that you have to plan for play. I'm curious, how does that show up for you in your life? I plan for play like daily. So for me, it's, you know, I talk a lot about self-care and glow time, as I call it, which is just an opportunity for you to return home to yourself and check in and really moment to moment understand what it is you might need. And so sometimes that's, you know, a game of ping pong in the office or it's, you know, going for a run or playing tag or bike riding and, you know, maybe racing my son, you know, on the bikes or whatever it is.

15:55For me, it's it's something that I just it's like ingrained, like, OK, here's the time that, you know, between this meeting and this meeting, there's like a really nice break. Here's what I'm going to do. Right. So I just kind of, because my days sometimes are very full, what makes it really easy for me to sustain myself is punctuating the day with play. So I think that for people who have to interface with other human beings consistently or who have to like run around or whatever it is that you have to do, a lot of energy expenditure goes into pouring into other people. So for me, a way to kind of keep myself light and almost like hit control, alt, delete and reboot myself is to have play.

16:45So it really depends on where I am. So right now I'm out of town. And when I go to different cities, I find out what I can do in that city. So in LA, as soon as I get off a plane, the first thing I do is drop my bags. I go right on the beach on a bike. And then I call a friend who meets me for a bike ride. And then I go get juice or whatever it is. But I make sure that I kind of like get tether wherever I am. And even if I'm at home, again, like I don't sit at the computer all day. I'm going to get up, go stretch, run outside, you know, maybe go play with like somebody's dog. One of my neighbors, I'll walk their dog.

17:19Like little things that just kind of make me reconnect in, you know, with life. So it can be whatever it, you know, for people. It doesn't have to be a board game, although those are fun too. But it can just be something that makes you feel playful and light.

17:33Marie Forleo:Love it. And, you know, for anyone listening going, oh, I ain't got the time for play, ladies. I do not have it. Can't find it. One of the other things you talk about in the book, which you and I are both huge fans of, is this power of pruning. We actually did this MarieTV episode, I don't know if you saw it, Latham, where we did a dance called The Purge and Prune. And in your book, you talk about seeing your life as a garden, you know, and you want to see every living thing is supporting the cultivation of your best self or it's strangling all the goodness that's thriving in your life. So I know for me, I am constantly pruning.

18:07Marie Forleo:I am constantly editing down. I have a visceral reaction. This is true to too many things, too much clutter, too much whatever. It starts to fry my circuits. So let's talk about some examples of cultivation and strangulation. Oh, yes. I love that. Well, you know, cultivation, I think, can really be supported by a community, for instance. So if you're someone who's looking for, and I know a lot of people who are here listening are part of the Marie Forleo community. So coming to a space like that might feel really fulfilling, right? It might help you to grow yourself. It's like watering the, you know, the seeds.

18:52And then think about, for instance, maybe you have a friend in your life who's more negative or always, you know, you'll say something that you're excited about and then they come in and they have like some negative forecasting or like, oh, you shouldn't do that because of this or, you know, like layering their stuff onto you. And then when you hang up the phone, you're like, I need a yoga class, right? That is something that you feel like I need less of that in my life. Well, you got to listen to these kinds of signals, right? And so I think it's always about trimming the fat, weeding the garden.

19:26You got to look at what helps sustain you and what starts to deplete you, what's inspiring you and what's tiring you. And it's really simple. You don't have to... It's not rocket science. Kids do it all the time. They're like, that person's me and I'm not playing with them. We just started to like, oh, well, you make up excuses for why you have to do something instead of really listening to the wisdom of your body that's also very clear about like what it is that supports you. And you know, like Marie always says, it's a hell yes or it's a hell no. Like that's super simple. It's not like rocket science.

20:03I think that people have to start to, instead of trying to talk their way into doing things, like if you have a consortium about something, the answer is no. Like you should be able to know right away, like this feels really good. I want to pursue it. You know, this doesn't feel good anymore, I need to like find a way to get this off my plate. And so I think that that constant checking in and constant engagement with the process allows us an opportunity to check in and say, I need to trim the fat over here. Or you know what, this needs to go. I need more of this. So if we are engaged in the process, we can do that.

20:39If we're so focused on like what's on the other side, we're not really paying attention to what's happening. So then we can get sick along the journey or, you know, things start to fall apart and we're making excuses for why we're still here or what's going on. And we're not really seeing that we might be at the root of the problem. So there's a lot of things that happen as a result of us not paying attention. So when we pour our intention into paying attention, then that means paying attention to what we, what's going on with us moment to moment, but also what's happening in the ambient landscape that we're deeply connected to and a part of and the landscape of our business and then everything that supports us, that we have to constantly be dancing in those spaces to understand like the health and wellbeing of everything that we touch.

21:26So, so that's part, that's how you tend to garden, right? Like you're looking at the health and wellbeing of every single thing that's there. Some things like to grow together, like nightshades love each other. They like to grow together. They do not like to hang around leafy green vegetables. Cool. You got to know, right? Like where to put things in your life, right? So you got to know when like the weeds come in because you took a vacation for two weeks, didn't have nobody that you delegated to. And then you come back, you're like, what happened? It's like, so all these things requires our attention.

21:57You can't ever turn your head and then come back and be like, oh, well, it's not my fault, right? So we have to be responsible in our lives in every aspect. And so this reclaiming of responsibility and ownership, I call it glonership over our lives, is an opportunity for us to really step more into our power because you know what's going on in your own garden, right? Versus somebody else telling you, well, this is what's happening here. Why do you need somebody else to tell you your business?

22:28Marie Forleo:Yes. No, I love it. And some things that you hit on that I just want to emphasize and underline and underscore for anyone listening is the wisdom of the body. You know, when you're in the moment and you're paying attention to what needs to be cultivated or built up or added more of in your garden versus what needs to be weeded out because it's strangling all the goodness and the life out of yourself and the other plants around you, trusting your body's wisdom. I feel like our minds can sometimes lead us astray. There's so much logic and wanting to be a people pleaser and not wanting to hurt anyone and like all of these different negotiations that can happen in the conversation between our ears where our bodies, if you're there and you are brave enough to feel it, will give you an instant answer.

23:25Marie Forleo:And that's what's exciting about all the tools that you talk about in Own Your Glow. I love it because it gives us so many different access points to come into this way of being so that for any of us who tend to drive really hard, work really hard, you know, put in 14, 18-hour days, go at it. Again, I raise my hand. That is something I do. But this gives us an opportunity to balance and flex those feminine qualities that can help take us to a whole other level of not just success because that's a bit scientific. What's really great is having this rich, fulfilling, meaningful life because all the success in the world doesn't mean nothing if you're miserable or you're sick.

24:07Marie Forleo:That's right. Or you got nobody around you. I want to move on to something. Yes, right? I know. You and I are like, ah, we're in the same room. We'd be chill. Hugging and dancing. Something else that I thought was so wonderful, building off this idea of purging and pruning and cultivating your garden is deciding, you know, what we should let go of. And one of the parts I highlighted was you have the core four to figure out what we might be ready to let go of. And so these questions, I'm going to cover three of them. You have to check out the book for the rest. Who am I holding on to by attracting people that don't serve my highest good?

24:48Marie Forleo:Next one. What do I gain by remaining stuck in the same situation or circumstance? That's always a powerful question. And I love this third one that I'm going to share again. There's more in the book. How have I constructed my life to follow other people's rules? That one was the one I was like, whoo, highlight that one, put a star on it, circle it. And for anyone listening, write this one down. It's a great question. How have I constructed my life to follow other people's rules? So good, Latham. How's that one affected you, that last one? You know, I think that when I was younger, you spoke about it a little bit earlier when you said the pleasing, right?

25:34This sickness that seeded in us at an early age around basically automating our responses based on other people's level of comfort. a way of life that really strangles us from being in our truth because we don't want to upset other people at the expense of our own well-being or our own truth. So I think that, and this is everybody who's, you know, breathing that deals with this in some way, shape or form in their lives. And I think that, you know, sometimes it starts with like parents or, you know, school teachers or, you know, people that you sort of look up to or aspire or hope love you, that you place a lot of what they think or see in you as part of what you determine for yourself and what a life could be.

26:40and we have to at a certain point just grow up and get grown like sister girl grown like really grow up and stop looking to that rubric like looking to what other people set out for you what they see in you and what do you see in you you know like we have to stop looking at you know, our status or our feed for validation, you know, stop checking what other people are doing for validation. Check your pulse. Like, are you here? Are you alive? Are you thriving? Like, what are you doing in your life? Right? Like be in tune and attuned to what's happening with you. And I think that we're so taught to turn away from our bodies, to turn away from our feelings to subliminate them so that we can achieve these goals that were set out for us even sometimes before we were born and these stories that we are fulfilling for other people and their sense of self-worth.

27:51And so we become almost like trophies or yeah, Like we become like trophies for people. If we don't live our lives in the way that we're meant to and we live our lives through the lens of other people's rules or other people's expectations of us, we're not fulfilled. Even like you said, if you have all the success in the world and doing something, it is not what you want to be doing. You will not be happy. So I think that you just won't be. You won't be dancing like Maria in these videos every week. Okay. Okay, so if you want to be dancing, if you want to be happy, if you want to feel fulfilled, if you want to have, you know, serendipity and like beautiful people in your life and feel like what everyone talks about is like this blessed existence and this kind of like, oh my God, like all these things are so synchronous that are happening.