An insider's view of U.S Politics: Fear, Access, and the Press - with Marion McKeone

0:00The Mario Rosenstock Podcast with On Ice. Ireland's premium ice skating experience where winter memories are made. Visit onice.ie. Go Loud. Sounds better with us. Coming up on this episode of the Mario Rosenstock podcast. It's a lesson we all learn when we're four years of age that you have to stand up to a bully. But they're all terrified of losing access. And the problem is Washington runs on a culture of fear. And the biggest fear is that you lose access. And if you lose access, you lose relevance. And if you lose relevance, you have no power. That's how they see it.

0:45And as a former member of the White House Press Correspondents Association, Marion McKeown knows exactly what she's talking about. Marion is one of Ireland's best-known journalists and commentators on all things US-related. She's been on Matt Cooper's Last Word, US slot alongside Cal Thomas, every week for years now, and her columns appear regularly in the broadsheets and online. I don't need to tell you just how crazy and dysfunctional things are in the United States right now. We hear about it every day in the news and on social media. But Marianne brings a whole new level to the coverage. She lived in America for years.

1:16She's been part of the White House press corps herself, knows all of the key players and can give us an insight into what the hell is going on and where it's all going like no one else can. It was like a pre-teen child, America, at that stage, that just believed the world was this great big playground and everything was going to work out fine. and when you think about it the controversy that roiled America in 96, 97, 98 was Monica Lewinsky. That was the only thing that Americans had to get exercised about because everything else was going just fine. You know I remember being at a gig in Sacramento where he was talking about something and people were saying they were whining he said you know what if you don't like it don't fucking vote for me.

1:57And you know and that's what Democrats need to say they need to not be afraid to piss people off. This makes my blood boil and I used to be a member of the White House Press Correspondents Association I left it because they are the most spineless group of journalists I have ever encountered and that organisation is beyond spineless and this goes way back to Trump's first term where they would not defend colleagues Trump has always craved the cool kids, he's like the big stupid bully in the playground who all he wants is to hang out with the cool kids and as far as he's concerned Hollywood is the cool kids the Democrats are kind of the cool kids as people said before America is being run by Biff Tannen from Back to the Future Marian and I really didn't cut any corners here and got stuck in and we talked for well over an hour so you'll hear part one of our chat in this episode and it's coming up very shortly right after we check in on the mailbox of the Mario Rosenstock podcast hotline who's been leaving messages this week well considering our guest you can imagine who Hi, you've reached the Mario Rosenstock podcast.

3:01Please leave a message. Marion, it's Matt Cooper here. I hope you won't be giving Mario any of the good stuff now. You know how hopelessly addicted I am to my weekly fix of Trump bashing. And you're the person with the needle. Go on and have your chat with him if you must. But only give him the fluff. I need you to bring the hard stuff to the last word next week. And get that anti-Trump junk right into my veins. This is President Donald J. Trump. This is for Marion McKeown. Quiet, piggy. You're ugly on the inside and on the outside. And you know it. You're a low IQ individual from fake failing news, business plus post whatever it's called.

3:42Absolute scum of the earth. Don't come back into my country because you're going to meet the fate of those guys I blew up in the boat. Double tap to you, Marion McKeown scumbag. Hey, Marion, it's Cal Thomas here. Marion, delighted to hear you're going on Mario's podcast. Give it everything you've got, girl. Really put it all out of the table, and I'll be listening intently because it will form the background to my new column syndicated this Thursday in every goddamn paper in the United States. Thanks, Marion. Yes, hello, Mario. Message for Marion McKeown. It's Pascal Donahue here calling from Washington, D.C., from the World Bank.

4:22Marion I respect you hugely as a journalist and thank you very much for your years of high level commitment to the cause and your highly insightful commentary on the machinations of one of our oldest and closest trading partners thank you with greatest of respect I'm looking forward to my time here in Washington and I very much hope that you will consider giving my early months in the new job some very favourable coverage please and I can't stress that enough because I was the bleeding golden child of the doll, right? You listen to me. And now I'm over here and over with me bleeding head and this world banked black.

4:57Bleeding eggheads everywhere. I can't be coming over here and getting an egg on me face doing a shite job. So I need you to make me look good, right? Tell that Cooper lad and all them other hacks in the Irish media. I'm nailing it. Thank you very much, Marion, for your time.

5:17and exclusive comedy every week on the Mario Rosenstock podcast thanks to our sponsors that is On Ice Ireland's premium ice skating experience it returns this season and is bringing back the magic of ice skating nationwide this festive season locations in Dundrum and Swords in Dublin Marina Market in Cork as well as locations in Waterford and Limer get down there enjoy Ireland's number one festive and family entertainment this Christmas it's fresh it's invigorating I'm going to be going down there soon And grab your tickets now at onice.ie. Okay, Marion McKeown is standing by and ready to take you and me behind the scenes of US politics and the craziness of the culture that is the US right now.

5:54And she knows a lot about the topic because she's been covering it for quite a long time, starting when America was in a very different place. Marion, how long have you been covering American affairs? Oh, God. Started in 1999, me and Prince. Gift Grubb started in 1999. Partied like it was 1999. And you know what? Back then, Clinton was president. Everyone was so fat and so happy and so rich and so, I don't even know how to describe it. It was like a pre-teen child, America, at that stage, that just believed the world was this great big playground and everything was going to work out fine. and the biggest, when you think about it, the controversy that roiled America in 96, 97, 98, 99 was Monica Lewinsky.

6:41That was the only thing that Americans had to get exercised about because everything else was going just fine. And then, of course, we had 9-11 and to me, 9-11 is the bookend that split America down the middle, the before 9-11 and after 9-11 and I think since then America has just been on a sort of a drumbeat to authoritarianism and I do think that Obama was an aberration. Didn't have to be. I think it's partly his fault he was an aberration. But so, anyway, I went off then for several years to the law library in Somalia. I'm not sure which was scarier. And the Middle East and did a bit of work there as well and was based in Beirut for several years.

7:22And then went back to politics again. I blame Ian Keogh if he's listening because it was... From the business post. Yeah, and now the currency. Excellent. Excellent outlet. But Ian called me and he said, listen, would you cover the election in 2015, 2016? It's Hillary Clinton. And Donald Trump's running. But, you know, sure. And we all thought, yeah, well, that's going to be an easy one. Obviously, Donald Trump running straight off The Apprentice, whose ratings were in the toilet at that stage, versus Hillary Clinton, who was, you know, even though there was a formality of a primary, everyone knew she was going to get it.

7:56And it seemed like it would be a bit of a laugh. It would all be over in, you know, jig time. and then here we are now. Nobody saw this coming, certainly not the second term. Yeah, so interesting. So 1999 and then you sort of say that it's been on a sort of a slow little burn towards authoritarianism with Obama, a little aberration in the middle. Obama was an aberration in the middle but in a way then possibly kick-started it in a way that nobody could have because of the race issue. An aberration and a catalyst. Yeah, and a catalyst because those Republicans were going to go, we're never going to, after this black fella in the White House, we're going to show them from now on.

8:29That was a big part of it. But, you know, it didn't have to be if he hadn't been so timid in so many ways. In a way, did he have to be timid? Sorry, this is a different argument, Marion. It is. But sure, let's have it. Yeah. One of my theories and thoughts about it is that being the first black American, black African American in the White House, one of his primary duties almost historically was to not knock the furniture over, to almost go, I'm going to be a safe pair of hands in the White House to show you that a black man can do the job. In other words, I'm not going to do anything incendiary.

9:03I'm not going to do anything dramatic. I'm not going to move the needle much because if I did try to move the needle, they'd go absolutely nuts and go, what's this black man doing? Right? So in a sense then, in many respects, he did nothing. Yeah. To which I would say, so what? They're going to go nuts anyway. They're going to go nuts anyway. Let them go nuts. Let them at it. And you spoke there a minute ago about the worst thing that happened was Monica Lewinsky. I remember the biggest crisis that happened during the Obama administration in terms of, I think he wore a tan suit. The tan suit. Do you remember the tan suit?

9:35And the, God, I'd forgotten that. The furor, and again, it just goes to show everything is relative because he and his administration astonishingly did not have a hint of a scandal. Not a hint in two terms, which is unheard of. And that's where he really did live up to that mandate of being squeaky clean and giving them nothing. He gave them nothing except a tansuit. That was the worst thing he did in eight years was to wear a tansuit which just goes to show I mean I think if Trump arrived into the office bollock naked painted yellow stripes we probably wouldn't bat an eyelid at this stage because everything else is so crazy.

10:12But I do say that about Obama that in particular the one thing that I really blame him for was his timidity with the Supreme Court when they refused to nominate give Merrick Garland a hearing and Christ, if only Merrick Garland had been on the Supreme Court, he could have not been such a useless Attorney General for Joe Biden. He should have just made a recess appointment. They all go, oh, they can't really do that, can't really do that. He should have just said, screw you to Mitch McConnell and the boys and said, this is my right and I'm making a recess appointment. And so 25, 26 years later, Marion, you're still covering the United States.

10:45You've mentioned Clinton, you've mentioned Barack Obama and then Trump came in and then we've been living through this Trump thing, which becomes increasingly and increasingly Kafkaesque in terms of the effect it has on ourselves. The sort of maddening effect it has on ourselves that we, I feel, as I tried to convince you before the podcast started, that I see myself as a rational person. Are you sure, Mario? The jury's still out. But even I see myself as a rational person and I find myself nearly banging my head off the table going, is this really happening before my eyes? But this is nothing compared to what you must feel.

11:20And my question to you is, do you ever feel you're going mad? Several times. Not all to do with Trump, though. You know what? To me, this is a tragedy. This is a tragedy because I think this was a preventable tragedy. And I think that, you know, there is the old, it wasn't JFK who originated it, but he certainly borrowed it. When, you know, when good men do nothing, evil flourishes. And I think the timidity of the Democrats has so much to do with this. And with that, I include Biden flailing around the place, wringing his hands and being really ineffectual in a lot of ways. He did a lot of really good stuff as well in the first two years.

11:57Won't take that from. But his arrogance, his absolute arrogance and delusion that God knows what he was suffering from in insisting on running again. And the Democrats cowardice in not saying, no, you're not. And we're going to have a primary because guess what? You're 81 and you're already losing a step, you know, and and why they didn't hold him up and say, this is about the country you know and you know there are so many points at which this could have been averted and I think that's the real tragedy and that's what kind of makes me angry almost more than Trump because Trump is going to do what Trump does Trump does what Trump does but Marion doesn't that okay I'm going to get a bit deeper with here then about this because skip off the notes here for a bit doesn't that doesn't that say a lot more about the entire adventure and idea and experiment of America the fact that all these people who have with a D on their head and a blue shirt on, the Democrats, that when push comes to shove, they're just afraid, cowardly and timid and they're afraid of hurting their gig.

12:59You know what? Not all of them, but not enough to make a difference. So I had huge admiration for Nancy Pelosi. She was bloody tough as nails and she took Trump on, but at times it felt like she was doing it on her own. It really did. Gavin Newsom, even during the first term. He took no shit from Trump. He had him in court every other day during the first term as well. He was always suing him. And somebody had to keep him on track. I really praise organisations like the ACLU. There are the Bren Centre for Justice. Guys like Norm Eisen who are out there. Abby Lowell. Every day challenging Trump in the courts because without them things would be a whole lot worse.

13:37Okay but with Democrats. And they are all Democrats but they're not running the party. No. The Democrats But who runs the party? This seems to be extraordinary. very good question. We live in a very strange world. This is a very good question. I mean, we all know, for example, the leader of Fine Gael, the leader of Fianna Fáil. God forbid we know the leader of Sinn Féin. Do you know what I mean? We really do. You know, whether it's Gerry Adams running, we don't know. But we know that Mary Lou Macdonald is the leader of Xi Jinping. She's the principal opposition. She is the leader. Who's the principal opposition in Democrat land?

14:04Is Joe Biden the leader of the Democrat Party? Not anymore. Not anymore. But he's not. No, Joe Biden is literally... Is AOC the leader of the Democratic Party? Is Schumer the leader? is Hakeem Jeffries. OK, so here you have, and this is a really good question. Hakeem Jeffries, who is a smart guy and a good guy, is the wrong general for this war. Absolutely. He's, you know, he's a guy, he would have been fine against a normal, a sane Republican. He's not the guy to go up against Trump. Pelosi was the woman for Trump. She defied him at every turn and she was so strategic in the way she did it and she had so much mischief about her and she'd be piddling herself laughing walking out of the room.

14:43Like she was tough as nails, but she didn't let him get under her skin, whereas she really got under his skin. But back to the question of who the leader is. Chuck Schumer, why he is still the Senate minority leader is beyond me. Again, the Democrats haven't got the balls to push him out the door. But why don't they have a leader? Well, he is the leader. He's the leader of the Senate. Hakeem Jeffries is the leader of the House. And this is where it's all fractured. But if you want a sort of a nominal leader or I wouldn't go so far as to say a spiritual leader. For me it's Gavin Newsom. It's Gavin Newsom.

15:15It is. And it's Gavin Newsom and he's setting out his stall now for 2028. And you know what? There is a lot of up and coming talent in the Democratic Party but it's going to be hard to beat the guy who stood up to Trump. It's going to be hard to beat the guy who went out there when nobody else was doing anything and that would be Newsom. Newsom looks like a leader. He looks like a president. He sounds like a president. He's articulate like a president. He's got sex scandals, which is good. You have to have those. You have to have those. The only problem is he's from California which isn't exactly, you know, well, it is a bit of a problem in the sense that it's not Ohio or part of the Rust Belt and it's just, it's staunchly democratic and you get that anyway.

15:52Yeah, but you know what? It depends on how you, I think it depends on how you frame that. You frame it as California, this is where we all take acid and lie around all day, or it's California, the world's fourth biggest economy, which it has become under Newsom's stewardship, the most diverse, proof that diversity works because it's the richest, you know, part of America. California, which buys the way, keeps the lights on, in Wyoming, Idaho, Missouri and all those red states that couldn't pay their electricity bills literally without the federal taxes from California. So it's like a Newsom, you know, I remember being at a gig in Sacramento where he was talking about something and people were saying, they were whining, he said, you know what, if you don't like it, don't fucking vote for me.

16:31And, you know, and that's what Democrats need to say. They need to not be afraid to piss people off. They need to not be afraid to have people going, you know, whereas they do that hand-wringing, but then we're going to offend this person and then we're going to offend that group. That's what Bill Maher constantly attacks. Oh, not Bill Maher. Well, in fairness to him, he does have a point. You know, he says the entire Democratic Party is being held hostage by a small group of people who are basically talking about transgender and toilets. But that's a complete cliche. But it's true. No, it's not.

17:03And you know what? I completely disagree with that because what happens is the Democrats are so stupid they fall into the trap. I've never heard a Democrat talk about transgender toilets. Never. The people who talk about it are Republicans in Idaho and Republicans in the boonies. And then they go, oh, the Democrats are all for this. And then the Democrats, instead of going, you know what? We don't really care about that. What we care about is health care for most Americans. But they always fall into the trap. And they all then try and go, oh, no, but we care about it, but we don't really. And they get themselves, instead of saying, look, there are two transgender people on sports teams in America or five or whatever it is in schools.

17:39So why are we talking about this? Why aren't we talking about the 50 million who are about to lose their health care? And they never frame it like that. And Christ knows why. Maybe I should get a job as a Democratic journalist. Part of the reason they never frame it like that is because they are leaderless. You need to put it through the fulcrum of the leader. Yeah. The focus point. To say, you know, shut up banging on about this. But they need to say to Republicans, guys like Ron DeSantis, when he goes on about the whole mind virus, they need to say, we're talking about a group of people in America.

18:06There are fewer than 100 ,000. What about the 50 million? What about the 20 million in Florida who are, you know, suffering from all kinds of things because you're mad? But they don't do that. Then they go, they start splitting hairs and trying to be rational. And you can't be rational with these people. There's no point. Just slightly tangentially off the Democrats there. You mentioned Nancy Pelosi, right? Answer me this question. Agreed, she was mischievous. Oh, yes. Agreed, she was spiky. Agreed, Donald Trump, she got under Donald Trump's skin. to the extent that Donald Trump hated her. But how does a person on£275 ,000 a year become worth£200 million?

18:45Because her husband is a financial investor. He's a big venture capitalist. He's a big... You know what? People have said that. Now, I have a lot of admiration for Nancy Pelosi for a number of reasons. But even Republicans, and I used to spend a lot of time loitering around the halls of Congress, and even Republicans, who a lot of them really secretly admired her, none of them... They love to raise this, but I remember talking to a couple of Republicans and I think Peter King was one of them and a few of the others and I said do you really think that she's involved in some kind of insider trading?

19:15I said like do you really think it and was it King who said to me none of them did and the reason they didn't think was A they've got enough money but B she wouldn't give Republicans the satisfaction of dragging her through the mud like that because she valued her political career and I think she was one of that old school people who were idealistic If you and I were having a pint now here Marion and where are the pints yeah well if the microphones weren't on would you say to me Mario there is no way she's been involved in insider trading yeah would you because then I might come back to you after the second pint and go sorry is it not a case that they're all into insider trading every one of them you know I think they all might go up to the line of legality but it's so muddy in Congress as well but what I really do believe was she thought her political career was her whole driving thing.

20:07Yes, she's a grandmother and yes, she has five kids and yes, she's great and all that and apparently she's a great cook, blah, blah, blah. But her goal was getting legislation across the line. And as I said, she wouldn't give the Republicans the satisfaction of prosecuting her, of taking her out there. No money would be worth that to her. And as I said, her husband's minted anyway. The guy's loaded. You know, she's not that stupid. So from your experience and your knowledge and your viewing of it, you would say that that's fair enough that she isn't. I think I'm not even going to say I don't know how ethical our principles is.

20:40She's always struck me as being somebody who has got real principles. But I do know that she's not stupid. OK. And I would say for that reason. All right. There's so much to get through because, you know, you and I could kind of go on one tangent and go on all day. We're wandering all around. It's great. We're actually sticking to the plan. But here's the other thing, right? That really, really... And I don't know, you find out a lot about yourself, maybe. You find out a lot about yourself as you're watching these events. How do I feel about something when I see it on TV? How do I feel about something when I see the president of the United States of America addressing a member of the media, a female member of the media, saying, quiet piggy?

21:22Right now, or addressing another member of the media in the Oval Office saying, female member, you are ugly, both inside and outside. And then another female member, all females. Yes. You know, you are stupid. but you could not fail, you would not take that cognizant test because you would pass. I aced it. I aced it. You would fail it. And so would you, pointing his finger at them. And what really, really made me just cringe and be embarrassed to be, like, even any, just watching this, was the lack of pushback from the colleagues that those women had in the media standing right beside her. And so I just wanted to play you this.

21:58This is from... Go for it. Because it's kind of, it sums it up. I've been shocked by many, many of the encounters Trump has had with reporters. Sorry. We lighted this, right? Because I want to just get this. It's Christiane Amanpour, right? Okay. The other day, and it was in edit. It was a nice edit. I've been shocked by many, many of the encounters Trump has had with reporters. The haranguing, the berating, the insulting, the bullying. It is just completely off the charts. I've never seen anything like it in any country, by the way, ever. And the new low to me was in the White House this week, both when he called the Bloomberg reporter.

22:37He said, quiet piggy. I'm sorry. That's a farmyard animal epithet that you're tossing at a young woman asking a perfectly legitimate question. So I had these fantasies that if it was me, I would have just said, I'm leaving. I invite all my colleagues to leave with me and I am going to file a workplace harassment complaint. That's what I'm going to do. Then we have the right to a safe and secure and free and dignified work environment. Can you imagine if any CEO had talked to their employee the way Trump talks to these reporters? It would be curtainsville. So that's one thing. And frankly, I think our bosses should be standing up for us when we are berated on behalf of our networks and organisations by the president of the United States.

23:22So we're, again, because Christiane Amanpour, and you're kind of going, not only did the colleagues refuse and chicken out of defending their female colleagues, the bosses later would never have any pushback. What has happened? OK, you know what? This makes my blood boil. And I used to be a member of the White House Press Correspondents Association. Briefly, I left it because they are the most spineless group of journalists I have ever encountered. And that organisation is beyond spineless. And this goes way back to Trump's first term where they would not defend colleagues. Now, I remember one incident in the first term when Jim Acosta, who worked for CNN then, some report there were these people who worked for the Trump White House then and they were half demented I'm sorry but they were so aggressive and so angry and so trying to impress their boss anyway one of them tried to take the microphone out of his hand he didn't relinquish his grip then Sarah Huckabee Sanders who lied every day from that podium said that he had assaulted this woman it was obvious he didn't not one of his colleagues stood up for him not one of his colleagues defended they didn't even tweet in his support The White House Press Correspondents Association should have put out a statement then saying this was patently untrue and we stand by our colleague, nothing.

24:40And they have these, you know, Associated Press, another example, when they were kicked out of the Oval Office and off the plane and all of that, because they refused to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America, there should have been a walkout. There should have been a walkout organised. Now, AP provides the copy for how many, like three billion people read AP every day. They rely on AP hugely for their information and for biased, I beg your pardon, objective, non-biased information. It's one of the few outlets. And I saw that when I was working all around the world. If you want, and I'll still say this, if you want objective information from anywhere in the world, AP is really the gold standard.

25:20And so they should have, because one thing Trump cannot survive without is attention. so if all of those journalists are as Christina Marampo correctly said why don't they file a workplace harassment complaint? Why don't they actually because you can sue these women have all been discriminated against in the way that they're being abused why aren't they doing something either that there's a collective walkout that they refuse to cover Trump until he apologises he will not survive, he can't survive five minutes without oxygen and you know what he might love all his little right wing his little acolytes who you know Mr.