Frances Black on family, fighting injustice, and memories of Glen Hansard

28:15I know she did, especially when my father couldn't get work. My father was a plasterer. He was a brilliant plasterer. He used to do all the wonderful, you know, the real articulate kind of cornices and stuff. I do, yeah. So he was a great plasterer, but there was time. Architraves and things. Yeah. Those things. But he couldn't get work. and sometimes you'd have to go down the country and there wasn't, I just don't remember a huge amount of money and I remember her worrying I remember her worrying about the dinner and making sure you know, making sure she had dinner and she would make food out of anything you know, there were, you know, she'd get a bit of bacon and it could be very fatty bacon and she'd throw in potatoes and onion and a bit of cornflour and that was her dinner, loads of salt do you know what I mean, it was delicious but like, I know that there was times but she eventually then went out to work herself and she would clean schools and she wouldn't be kind of she was a very independent tough tough cookie and took great pride in the fact she was she healthy and strong she was and she she used to work up in carols a cigarette factory up in the canal and i'd come home from school and i'd drop off my bag and go up and sit outside waiting for her she smoke she was a smoker yeah was she able to smoke the carol cigarettes i I don't know if she got them for free.

29:26I wonder, yeah. I don't. I don't think so. She was kind of a players, Wales smoker. She loved the players. And then she went down to Sweet Afton for a while. Jeez. The bullets we used to call them. I know. They were the, they had sawn off, sawn off shotguns. She lasted until she was 86, like, which is amazing. 86? 86 for a smoker. Now she stopped smoking. He had turned, just turned 80 or he would have been maybe 81. Still a good age. Yeah. Good age. Both of them big, serious smokers. Okay. And would have been players and all of that. Yeah. But yeah. So it was like, you know. Was your home a happy enough home?

30:02It was happy enough apart from the anxiety that I know my mother used to have. I knew she had she struggled with a bit of anxiety and I worried about that. I worried about her anxiety and I tried to fix things for her. Do you know what I mean? I was always kind of trying to make sure. And how many of you were there? There was five of us, but I was the youngest. Me and Martin were the youngest, me and my brother. There was like two different families. I don't know if you know, but there was five of us in the family. but the eldest three were in that gang and then me and Martin were in this gang remember my left foot yeah that was that style there of the family yeah there were a few grown up ones yeah Christy was grown up yeah and there were a few younger ones yeah Frankie I knew Frankie they'd had an afterthought they'd had an accident that's right and I remember Frankie he was a really good friend of mine Frankie Brown he was a very dear friend of mine Frankie Brown Frankie Brown he was Christy's brother is that right yeah and that's amazing that I just mentioned he lived in the original house Let Christy take it.

30:56Yeah, that was probably Frankie. Let Christy take it. My son, Christy Brown. Genius. Come here, Brenda Fricker as well was another woman we lost recently, by the way, we never mentioned. Brenda Fricker, God love her. What a beautiful actress. Beautiful woman. What a heart and soul. Again, the heart of a storyteller. And reminded me of my mother. The women were amazing back then. they were amazing she had a bottle yeah and nobody was going to touch their child she'd stand up for her oh my mother used to be obviously and I'd go up and tear the veil off they were the family my mother used to talk about the nuns God forgive me right and I'm so sorry was your mother like Brenda Fricker in my left foot in the sense that she was the backbone of the family backbone the heart and soul of the family the heart and soul and all the women were as far as I could see back then all the women back in the day and did your dad like a pint he loved his pint right he was up in the he would go always went up And less so the mother.

31:53Oh, mommy never drank. She never drank. At Christmas time. What was the thing they used to have? Sherry or a brandy. It was a baby chamois. What was the yellow thing? But it wasn't. The snowball. Snowball. Let Christy take it. It's gas, isn't it? Ah, God. It was good times, Mario. It was good times. We did have lovely times. You did. So the memories are good. We had sing songs, you know. But the sing songs were like. Was your mother able to sing? or your dad listen to me where do you want me to start on my mother my father my father came from Rattlin Island now people have heard this story so many times in the north strange little island that is beautiful beautiful little island it's mad isn't it it's the only island in the six counties but it's a little L shape I go up I'll be going up there now next week I'm up there nearly as much as I'm in Dublin as soon as I can get out of Dublin I'm up there a few people live there yeah there's a hundred and seven my cousins grew up there and my you know and do you go out in a boat you go out in a boat the ferry kind of crossing is about 40 minutes and then you can get a fast boat which is a half an hour but in rough seas I mean 160 ships went down around Rattlin because of the rough seas but anyway my father came from Rattlin Island he was a banjo player all the blacks in Rattlin played music right traditional music my mother who came from inner city Dublin Cork Street she was the old music hall type singer So she had the old music hall songs, right?

33:23And they were her party piece. And then my father would sing all the old. Can you think of a music hall song? Well, After the Ball Is Over. After the Ball Is Over. That was one of hers. She had a few funny ones. Then there was Bird in a Gilded Cage. Now I Have to Call Him Father, which is about. I sing that on my gig sometimes. Just in, you know, just in remembrance of her. and it's about a young woman who brings her lovely boyfriend home to meet the mother and he falls in love with the mother and ends up running off the mother. This is an old musical song. Talk about Jerry Springer. Like this was like stuff that...

34:00Yeah, I married a horse. Yeah. Bring him out. She's from Charlemagne Street in Dublin. She brought him home to meet the daughter. She ended up marrying the mother.

34:14that's what my mother used to sing I swear to God and there was other ones as well other kind of funny ones that she used to sing but she'd hundreds hundreds of songs hundreds of them and she was able to belt it out she would when I say belt it out like if my mother went out for a night later on in her life not when she was younger because they never went out but later on if there wasn't a sing song then it was brutal night it was terrible that was a terrible night if she didn't get to sing a song Where would she sing a song? Anywhere. But where would they be? In a pub. In a pub, but she wouldn't be drinking.

34:46No, she never drank. But say if she came to a gig and we all went to a bar afterwards, right? And she was after, we were at Mary or me, it would be in the Olympia or something, right? And we'd go into the bar afterwards. And unless there was a sing song, she wouldn't have enjoyed the night. Do you know what I mean? So the sing song was the night. She had to have the sing song. She had to have the sing song. And she had to entertain, you know. So you and Mary, when like you became singers. So, yeah, like were you the only two singers in the house then? No, my brothers, like the black family, we made two black family albums or three black family albums.

35:21So Shay is the eldest, right? Shay would have been a song collector from the time he was 13. And he saved up to buy a guitar when he was 13. And he got the guitar and then he started to sing and play songs. It was all around the folk kind of scene, like Donalunny was in, you know, there was Scarra Bray. There was, you know, the Dinnie Gonals and there was the Bati Band and the Chieftains. There was all that kind of era and they were all starting out and it was really cool. And then he picked up the guitar. My brother picked up the banjo, Michael, and Mary was singing from the time she was in the pram.

35:58I mean, our Mary has the most incredible voice, power, unbelievable. like she was a soloist in the choir. So she was just not unlike Glenn Hansford for singing, if you know what I mean. Do you know what I mean by that? Passion, just pure passion for singing. Then my next brother was Martin and he played the fiddle. But then I was the kind of runt of the litter because I didn't play any instruments or anything. And I wasn't really a singer, if you know what I mean, or I wasn't certainly wasn't considered a singer. So it was only they had all gone off to America and I was left behind because I was going to school.

36:34And when they came back, they were going to do a little folk club tour around Ireland. And only that I pleaded with Shay, the eldest brother, to go. And I didn't even want to go and sing. I just wanted to go and hang out with them all because they were so cool. Like they were all hippies, do you know what I mean? And they were all really cool. And, you know, Shay had the Afro and the flares and, you know, they were all like my idols. so they brought me along and Shea got me to sing then you know you'd sing two songs on the night but you only had to sing a couple of verses and then they'd all sing with you on the chorus So you felt protected So I didn't feel nervous with them or But did you grow as a singer or develop into a singer or did you do you know what I mean did they as you say you were the runt so like Yeah I was the runt Did you kind of like start out just kind of giving it a little bit of a lash and grow from there Oh definitely I think what happened So you developed your confidence as a singer is that what you're saying?

37:30Well I think I only developed confidence later on in my life I really struggled with my own self confidence with regards to be a singer because you know all my family were incredible singers do you know what I mean? I do every single one of them had amazing voices so you felt to yourself I'm not even the fourth best singer in my own house I didn't I didn't have a strong voice I had a kind of But Nancy Griffith said she said you have the sweetest voice of Ireland I know I definitely had a sweeter voice but I was quiet if you know what I mean. So because I was quiet there are songs for quiet sweet voices.

38:03Yeah and this is what I didn't. I thought if you sang in a session you would you know to be a good singer you had to be able to sing enough to shut people down. People would stop talking. And is Mary's voice would you so you have let's say a quiet sweet voice. I've quiet. Is Mary's voice totally different to yours? Mary's voice is Mary can sing anything. Okay. So Mary can be sweet but she can also she has power so she was and she's great control of her power you know Roisin is the same Roisin has a really big really powerful voice Roisin my daughter got married last weekend and Roisin sang Celine Dion's home and I'm not telling you a word of a lie Mario she was better she was as good as if not better yeah it was I was crying listening to her literally but anyway I was watching sorry just to interrupt there for a second because about Mary's voice I was watching there's a seminal episode of Reeling in the Years.

38:59Oh, yeah. And I can't remember which year the year is, but it's the 80s and it's either 80s, it could be 86. Yeah. Right. And the last clip is of a fella with an old mustache on him and he looks much older than he is. They all did back then. We all did back then. He was probably 27. We all looked older. About 40. Yeah. And he went, I don't know, I don't know, nothing for me here. So I think I'll just get out of the country. And it was sad. Oh, yeah. It's sad. Oh, he's been interviewed. Yeah. And he's just on the street, Fox Pop. And he's gone. There's nothing for me here. Oh, yeah. It was a very sad time.

39:37I'd love to stay here, but there's nothing for me here. I just have to go away. Yeah. And he has to go away. And it's the end of the episode. And you just see an Aer Lingus jet taking off. And it brings tears to your eyes. What really brings tears to your eyes is Mary Black's voice singing. As I leave behind Nadine. Yeah. Oh, my God. such sweet beautiful vocals on that Jimmy McCarthy oh my god Jimmy McCarthy and she her voice in that is so plaintiff yeah it's but it's a beautiful song it's a beautiful song but Mary has a beautiful voice and I know I'm a bit biased but really and truly like and have you always been have you did you ever feel a sibling rivalry with her I never felt a sibling rivalry because to me Mary was my hero and still is to be honest with you and Mary's a goddess in Ireland Yeah, not because of her voice and her singing.

40:29There was obviously that and she was cool and all of that. And, you know, but for me, it was her. Mary is like the matriarch of our family. So she's like she bit like what we were saying about Glenn. She has this ability to just bring people together, but particularly family. Mary adores family. She's one of the kindest, you know, most compassionate of people I know and her Mary on my word of honor she'd invite up to the house and she would she knows how to entertain and cook at the same time I can't get my head around that I couldn't do that if I'm cooking I'm cooking but I can't talk to people and be a wonderful hostess and go around give people drinks and all you know that's not I just I'm not that doesn't come natural to me whatsoever if I'm cooking the dinner I'm cooking the dinner if I'm sitting talking to somebody I'm talking to somebody.

41:21Do you know what I mean? Or in boring drinks. But she can do all of that without even you noticing. Do you know that way? And she can mine babies in the middle of it all and she could probably do a painting or something. What about, sorry, again, I'm just looking at your eyes and I was thinking about Mary's eyes there. Yeah. She has these, and you kind of have it as well, you have these kind of luminous blue eyes. Mary's green eyes. Yeah, sorry, it's luminous, there's a luminosity to it. Yeah. And you can see it pop out through the television for all the years. Yeah. Where does the look come from?

41:49because she was very dark. Yeah. And these kind of green eyes. It's just peculiar, strange. So there's, so Shay is kind of, Shay is my colour and has the lightest blue eyes I've ever seen in my life. Then Michael has red hair and freckles, right? And then Mary and Martin are like something from a Greek island. I know, it's Raven. Martin is like a Greek god. Mary is like a Greek goddess. Yes, they're so, I'm both of green eyes and then I'm kind of, I'm light with bright blue eyes. Bright blue eyes, yeah. You know, so like. It's funny. So my father would have been very dark, the Ratlin. So there were definitely Mary and Martin.

42:33Spaniards. Yeah, I'd say so. That's Spanish coming around the top of Ireland. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. They did that a lot. You see them in Limerick as well. Yeah, and then down in Tork. And then the Vikings, we were the other side of the Vikings, like with the, you know, with the deities. That's me. you know so my mother was a deity so yeah we're all probably on my mother's side definitely the other three are on the mother's side and and you're in the Shannon for the last 10 years yeah and it's harder work than you said it would be and and have you been able to keep singing and have you wished to keep singing and how do you keep singing and where do you keep singing oh me and and Mary Coughlin and Sharon Shannon are on the road all the time now you know in between our own solo gigs so So, yeah, we're in Castle Bar this Saturday night.

43:19Where? The Traveler's Friend. Yeah. The theatre. Yeah. Patch Ennings. Yeah. And that's where we're going to be on Saturday night. And then we're. And who's there? That's you and Sharon. Me, Mary and Sharon. Wow. It's a great gig. Yeah. Mary is something else. Oh, my God. The two of them are like, I can't describe, talk about legends. like Sharon is the most beautiful human being you could ever meet and she's genuine and happy and and then Mary is this unbelievably powerhouse a goddess type if you know what I mean like from the west from the west of Ireland I don't know Mary well I've interviewed Mary a few times and she's been on The Breakfast Show a good few times and we've always loved her like I mean well have you ever gone to her gigs yeah I've been on several of Mary's gigs yeah and then and then Sharon is Sharon and then I'm me I'm kind of in the middle you know so so what do you do at the gigs so say Mary goes on first right Mary does sometimes I'll go on first depends on if one of us will be late or whatever so and then either myself or Mary will go on first or second then there's a break then Sharon comes on and then at the end we all come on together and then all hell breaks loose yeah we don't know what we're going to do good nights mental yeah absolutely crazy stuff but anyway where could I find out information about it?

44:41Is it online and stuff? I think it does be online. I mean, Mary, I don't know. We're terrible. I'm not very good at the online stuff. I have it on, say, I've, you know, put it on some, I have a guy who does my website and I've given him the dates so he puts them on the website. What's your website? Just FrancisBlack.ie. Okay, great. I think that's what it is anyway. FrancisBlack.ie. But then, but then I'm doing gigs then in, say, in Belfast and Derry in September. I'm doing Limerick. I'm doing Dolan's in Limerick. Oh, yeah. And then I'm doing, do you know what I'm really looking forward to? I'm going over to Enniskrown sometime.

45:13In Sligo. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to that gig because I've always wanted, you know, to go. I've, you know, and I think I might have heard this man talking about having a plane on a beach. Oh, yeah. Enniskrown. That's right. And I remember thinking, I really want to go there. And then I was offered to do a gig there. But then I'm doing the Civic Theatre in Tallaght for Tradfest in the new year as well. Great. So like there's lots of lovely things. And then we have loads of gigs next year with Mary and Sharon. So there's loads of lovely things happening. Mary and Sharon. Yeah. And of course, the other thing that I wrote down on my thing is the never to be forgotten woman's heart.

45:49I know. Yeah. So you were a part of that. Yeah. And that was what? 92, was it? Yeah, it was 92. I would say how that all came about was just, you know. Why did that strike such a chord? So Dara Records, who was Mary's husband's record company, if you know what I mean, they're like him and Paul O 'Reilly. Joe and Paul O 'Reilly were two brothers and Mary's married to Joe. And they had a record company called Dara Records. And Paul and Joe were always putting compilation, loads of compilation albums. They did it all the time in between. You know, I brought out an album with Dara. Mary brought out albums, other people, Paddy Riley, loads of people.

46:28But in between that, then they bring out compilations. so one of them suggested that we bring out a compilation with women so obviously Mary was going to be on it I was delighted because I had recorded with Ciarán Goss an album with Ciarán Goss and then I'd recorded with a band called Arcady and I had so I was part of two albums and when you say Ciarán Goss right that isn't the same Goss that you said the family was in no that was no that was no that was no Ciarán comes from Warren Mayo Bridge up in Nuri and he's a brilliant singer songwriter you have to listen to his album Brand New Star but anyway he's loads of albums since then but me and Ciarán brought out an album then I had an album with Arcady then there was two tracks taken one was taken off the Francis Black here and Goss and one was taken off the Arcady album and placed on this compilation album and there was Sharon had an album so there was two tracks taken off or more O 'Connell everybody went oh yeah Grant yeah take it do it we didn't even some of us didn't even know it was going to happen we didn't even know like and so then Mary recorded just the names excuse me so Mary you Mary my sister Sharon Dolores Eleanor McAvoy Mary and Eleanor recorded the song a woman's heart Dolores and myself so there were six of us am I forgetting anybody so Mary Dolores Eleanor Maura Maura myself and Sharon okay six of us yeah and And I remember the song.

48:00I remember the song, Woman's Heart. I remember thinking because it was played off the radio. It was, yeah. Thinking, wow, you know, it's such a great song, but still not connecting the dots that it was actually that I was on the compilation. Do you know, I knew that Mary had recorded this song with Eleanor and Eleanor wrote the song, but I didn't connect the dots that that was the album I was on because you just didn't, you weren't told. and and this went on to be the biggest selling album that ever came out of Ireland it ever came out of Ireland bigger than even White Ladder by David Gray and I remember when I was told that the album was number one I'm going am I on that yeah and they went yeah you're on that oh god and then all of a sudden one of the tracks Wall of Tears started to get played on the radio you know all of the tracks started to get played on the radio and Sharon was getting played and Maura was getting played and Dolores was getting played so All the other tracks were getting played.

48:55You know, so each one of the songs, it became then caught a wave. Yeah. Yeah. It was an amazing time. And it was all around the time that, you know, Mary Robinson got elected and women were kind of starting to kind of, you know, look at, you know, you know, contraception was always an issue. And, you know, all that kind of stuff, divorce and marriage. And, you know, women were always kind of like fighting for their rights at the time. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it was starting to like really come to the fore. And yeah, it was amazing. Sisters are doing it for themselves. Exactly. We actually sang that on one of the Women's Heart tours.

49:30And that was amazing. I still think to this day. And I said this tongue in cheek on a radio program a few weeks ago. I said it tongue in cheek. But when we were over in London, Women's Heart performed. And I don't know what the venue was. I can never remember the name of the venue. It was a big venue anyway. The Women's Heart was there. And Simon Fuller was there. Yeah. And a year later then with the Spice Girls. So I still think we were the inspiration for the Spice Girls. Yeah, right. Take credit for that. See, five or six women, birds, on stage. Please. Simon, it's Simon. Hello, Simon. Simon, it's Simon.

50:02Hello, Simon. What about this? Six birds on stage singing about bird stuff. What are you talking about? What about boy bands? Forget this. It's like a boy band, except it's birds. It's bird band. Bird band. Well, we call it bird band. No, no, mate. They won't go for that. Bird band, right? So things like women's rights, contraception. Yeah, power. Yeah, but we can't just say contraception, surely. No, we just call it zippy yippy-ki-yay-yay-a, whatever. Yeah. That will stand in for contraception, will it? Yeah, whatever, mate. Birds on band stage. I've seen this bird. Oh, my God. Francis Keane.

50:41Stop. Another bird, McAvoy, singing about women's art. Birds with arts, mate. yeah so that's you were the inspiration thank you well done on starting the Spice Girls oh my god almighty you know I'm not able can you imagine like you and Mary Coughlin going Mary Coughlin was on the second album by the way because she was really rage and she was she wasn't able to get on the first one and I don't know why she was away she says she was away in treatment or something at the time so she didn't get on the first one but thankfully Mary got on the second one what's the first Spice Girls song that came out

51:20what was the songs tell you what I want what I really really want yeah yeah Mary Coughlin doing zigger zigger zigger zigger ziggies I yeah zigger zigger zigger's a feck off oh lot of you ziggy ziggy ziggy ziggy she'll kill you there we go feck off we had a I used to there's a girl superb she does a superb impression of Mary called Paula and she does an amazing impression of Mary and I met her and I used to put her on some of the sketches Right yeah The Mary we had was that she was obsessed with hoovering that's all she wanted to do so she'd come into a sketch get out of the fecking way will you I'm trying to hoover the place That's all she wanted to do hoover the place but anyway yeah so well done on starting the Spice Curly Thanks very much Mario It's amazing That's brilliant Frances have you enjoyed this chat?

52:12I have enjoyed it And I really appreciate you taking the time out to meet with me. Not at all. You're a legend. I really enjoyed it. You're a legend as well. And your family. Your family are legends. And that's it. And for Mary, that's it, is it? Unfortunately, yeah. She sort of said that's quits time. She's finished, yeah. I couldn't believe it. I met her for coffee like a few months before the big tour ended. And I said, Mary, please tell me you're like, not really, really, like going to do it. No, I'm definitely, definitely going. She just wants to put a cap on it now, yeah? Yeah, she's finished.

52:40The last tour she did, it really did sell amazing, didn't it? People were screaming for tickets. Oh yeah, we sang the last night with her. Where? Black family in Vicar Street. The whole, no, I was at two of her gigs. I was at the stadium one as well. Because they sold like hotcakes. Everywhere, everywhere was sold out, completely sold out very quickly. She did the stadium as well, did she? She did the stadium, she did Vicar Street, she did Olympia. And did all the gigs go well? Everything sold out completely. And did they go well though? Oh, she was outstanding. I said for me, why are you stopping?

53:09Because she was back to her, the way she was you know and now she's oh she's never gone off point but she was like oh my god did she sing Nadine and all that she sang all the old I think she even sang Anarchy Gordon and you know I don't know she sang Nadine that's a really interesting one she might have sang Nadine in one of them it's because of really in the years it just always gets me it makes me cry did you ever hear Song for Ireland Song for Ireland oh you have to hear Song for Ireland I'll put it in oh definitely yeah definitely she sang that's really now that's her biggest hit in the US in particular okay Song for Ireland and when you how is your voice at the moment my voice is good it went off for a while I'm interested in how singers voices go I struggled many years ago I got a bruising on the vocal cords do you know how did that happen I don't I'd say I just strained it or I probably was you know not minding my voice but it was a really really tough time I mean because I was still singing but I wasn't able to sing terrible yeah oh listen to me but my voice is back the best thing for the voice is the rest you need to rest your voice I actually think since COVID, I have, you know, I'm singing a million times better.

54:16Great. Because I wasn't gigging. So you're in good voice. Yeah. So your voice had a chance to. Thankfully, I'm back. So you're something like Tom Jones in his 80s and his voice is in such good nick. Oh my God. There's some brilliant like. Genetics, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. No, he, I think he just has. Yeah. He's a man that just never wants to stop singing. No, he doesn't. He never wants to stop singing. He still has such a powerful voice. I don't think I ever want to stop singing either. And I don't mean that I want to be gigging all the time. No. But I just it's a very nice way of releasing, you know, tension and getting rid of all your anxieties.

54:47And it is what you do. It's a form of therapy. But it reminds me of what Glenn Cancert was doing. Yeah. In the sense that it's been made very clear by the way people have responded online and everything and what the stories about him. Yeah. Is that it didn't really matter whether he was singing with 5000 people or three people. He's still putting the same. Yeah. Energy. Yeah. Exactly. Which means he just loved doing it. It was just passion. He just loved doing it. And I think that really came across. That's what you're talking about. That's where the authenticity comes in. He didn't care where he was.

55:17He just wanted to sing. My mother was like that too. And I think my family are kind of like that. It's like your mother said she just wanted to sing songs. She would have sang for you. You bumped into my mother in the supermarket and said Mrs. Black gives us a song. She would have not only sang, she would have danced as well. Oh my God. She would have done a little one, two, three, one, two, three. What was her first name? Patty. Patty. Patty. Patty Black. Patty Daly. Patricia. Patricia, yeah. Patricia Black. And my father called her Patsy. Patsy. And everybody else called her Patsy. The Dublin way was Patsy.

55:43The Northern way was Patsy. Yeah. Hey Patsy. Patsy. Hey Patsy. Hey betcha Patsy. Don't be calling her Patsy. It's Patsy right. And there's no double T. It's Patsy. P-A-Y. Sounds like P but there's no T's. Patsy. Patsy. Right. Now. Hey Patsy. Shut your mouth. Brit's out.

56:09listen brilliant Francis long may you reign and I hope you know social justice is an important part of who we are and we need to be kind to people and we need to be compassionate with people and I think people were saying Glenn was a very compassionate person as well and you obviously are and we need to take care of each other we need to look after our vulnerable we really do need to look after our vulnerable and wherever we can say that whatever forums we can say that let's do that we need to look after our congratulations on the Rise Foundation oh thanks a million and addiction counselling yeah and all of that and you know you're leading a good life yeah no I'm living I am and I have two amazing grandchildren by the way who I adore and they keep me going you know and that's the best thing ever my kids and my grandkids are the best thing that's ever happened to me so I'm blessed you keep it going Frances I will thank you for coming in

57:07And my thanks to Frances Black for coming in to me and talking to me about her fascinating life to date. My thanks also to Hum Finance for getting involved in the Mario Rosenstock podcast and becoming a partner in it. But my main thanks, of course, to you as ever. Get in touch with me if you like, mariorosenstock at gmail.com. Spread the word, press the follow button, and tell one other person you enjoyed the podcast if you did. See you same time, same place next week. The Maria Roselstock podcast. Thanks to HUM. Finance made easy when you shop tech, electrical, appliances, kitchens and much more.

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