Ignored by Government, ‘cancelled’ by media – Paul Treyvaud’s travails

0:00Coming up on this episode of the Mario Rosenstock podcast. I don't want anybody thinking like me. I just want you to think. If I can convince 10 % more to turn around and go, hang on a second, this guy's actually making sense. He's not argumentative. He's not racist. He's not fascist. He's none of these names that he's been labeled. He's consistently said the same thing for the last one, two, three, four, five years. Everything he predicted during COVID and immigration has happened. All these businesses are closing. More are coming this winter. Maybe we should actually listen to the lunatic.

0:38Paul Trevo is a man with a lot to say. Like, I mean, a lot. He's the son of Ireland's original master chef, Michel Trevo, and he's a very well-known and accomplished chef in his own right, having run Trevo's restaurant in Killarney for over 20 years. But in recent years, Paul has become very well-known for his vocal and widely publicised criticism of government policies, first around COVID, and today around immigration. He's been warning the powers that be about the impending disaster in the restaurant and wider hospitality sector for years now, but to no avail. In this episode, he lets rip about crazy COVID policies, why Ireland's immigration approach has not worked and why he thinks he has been effectively cancelled from radio and TV appearances.

1:18Not mine though. But also, Paul shares some great stories from his time in the restaurant trade and the well-known people that he and his father had the pleasure of cooking for. The episode that is this episode with Paul Trebo has it all. Probably one of the most famous ones that I think got me my biggest kind of profile over Twitter was when Micheal Martin said he was going over to Joe Biden with a bowl of shamrock for St. Patrick's Day. And I turn around, I said, if that man gets on a plane and goes over to meet Joe Biden in Washington with a bowl of shamrock, I'm opening my fucking restaurant tomorrow because I can't go two miles down the road.

1:50So stop talking shit, lads. I have no issue in the world. If England decided to invade Ireland tomorrow and France offered me six grand to go stay in a three four star hotel and pay my social welfare and feed me where do you think I'd be gone I'd be gone to France I don't blame anybody coming into the country because the system allows him to get in here he had a 20 ounce T-bone steak for breakfast lunch and dinner rare that was it now you hear all these guys coming out with protein diets and the carnivore diets Muhammad Ali was miles ahead of the whole lot of them no smashed avocado bollocks for Muhammad Ali You don't want to miss my full chat with Paul Traver Which is coming right up Just after we cross over to another podcast One of my favourites It's the David McWilliams podcast Students all over Ireland have been receiving their CAO offers this week And this has brought David on a trip down memory lane Here we go John Ready to go David Locked and loaded Okay we talked about CAO and the leaving cert That's really topical How you doing?

2:46It's David here And John And like it's the CAO time again That's right John And as you might expect, I've always loved numbers. How did you do in the CAO? Well, I did okay. I got into ESS, BESS as it's known now. Yeah, it's a great one. But behind the numbers, what economics can teach us is much more important about human behaviour. So I was thrilled to go to Trinity College Dublin, a truly magnificent establishment. And hum, a hub of pedagogy, if you like. But what was really impactful about my journey. Go on. And in fact my visit Right To Trinity Remember the first week Yeah I mean the course Yeah Was very interesting Yeah But what I loved most Was fucking rag week Ah go away Dave And the fucking mayhem We caused John Smashing up the bleeding Buttery bar After a feed Of Linden village Outside the Campanile On the cobblestone We've lost three sponsors This week You can have rings Up on the cobbles we were I'll never forget The vodka and the red bull For just the quaid And pegs across the road Podcast is going down.

3:50On Toasty Tuesday student nights. We're going down the tubes. Milling them into me and puking on some board in front of me. A few of the old gang from the main streets of Donkey. We get together, break snort and a load of whiz off the book of cows. Why do I put up on this? And go bait the heads off some knackers. I don't need this. Pops pricks studying arts and drama from fucking Ranla to D6 crowd of bastards. I'm moving podcast. It was like train spotting me with normal people. John? John? Brand new and exclusive comedy Every week on the Mario Rosenstock podcast And please get in touch with me Whatever you want to say Mario Rosenstock at gmail.com Talk to me about the podcast Suggest some guests Some of my suggestions Your suggestions for guests have come true We've had guests on the podcast Which have been suggested by you Suggestions for new characters You'd like me to do Etc, etc Come and see me on tour I'm about to start blasting off again In autumn 16th, 17th and 18th of October In the Gaiety Theatre 9th and 11th of October In the Cork Opera House and check Ticketmaster for details all around the country.

4:50They're selling out fast. Please come and see me if you want to see me in action. And even though I do say so myself, it's worth it. Okay, lots of love as well for my sponsor, deluxebathrooms.ie. Their August sale ends August 31st. So you might be hearing this just before the August 31st deadline or just after it. But anyway, 70 % off, up to 70 % off. Magnificent bathrooms, tiles, et cetera. Deluxe bathrooms. Ireland's premium bathroom and tile retailer. If you're dreaming of a bathroom that combines luxury, functionality and style, look no further. So visit the amazing showrooms of Deluxe Bathrooms, Eastgate Retail Park, Little Island Cork or Dundalk Retail Park.

5:29Make your dream bathroom a reality with Deluxe Bathrooms. OK, so let's meet my special guest on this episode. He's a great chef with shows on Amazon Prime. He runs a successful restaurant in beautiful Killarney in County Kerry. He has a lot to say about the government and how the government failed the restaurant industry. And he also has a very great surname, which you don't come across very often. So I kicked off by asking Paul Trevo where it's from. Well, Swiss French. Yeah, so dad, dad, Switzerland, the original master chef in Ireland. And that was when you didn't have to win a two-week TV show.

6:02You had to do the hard grind and slog. And dad was chefing for about 45, 50 years. Cooked for some pretty interesting people from Muhammad Ali, Elvis, Princess Grace, Frank Sinatra, quite a couple of names. and then a lot of the Irish dignitaries and kind of politicians and anyone who was famous. That was the executive head chef in Juries and Balls Bridge when it was Juries and Balls Bridge and a five-star hotel. Wow, so five-star hotel in Juries. I remember going in there as a student to the coffee dock when I was like 19 and stuff and all that sort of stuff. I can't remember much about it obviously for obvious reasons.

6:35But like, so your dad was Michel Trevo? Trevo, spot on, yeah. Well, well pronounced, yeah. So growing up, having a father figure like that at home, I kind of from the earliest age, I can remember from three, four, five years of age, sitting on a stool beside the stove, watching dad cook, seeing how he made sauces, seeing how he butcher, you know, full lambs, full kind of, you know, chicken, fish, fillet the fish and all that kind of stuff. And the entire family got into hospitality. And of course, me being the baby and mom turns around, she goes, don't you let me down here. Don't you get into hospitality, which is the worst thing a mother could say to any kid.

7:08So that's exactly what I did. So the fact that she told you not to do it meant you were definitely doing it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so any mother's listening, if you want your kid not to do something, tell him to do it. Then you'll do the opposite. But yeah, so I went to Carbrew Street, did hotel management and business studies there for four years. And then kind of in between, I was heading off to Switzerland and other places around the world, working in some of the top restaurants, kitchens, hotels. And yeah, then came out of there with this piece of paper that said I was ready to run a hotel.

7:36So that's my background. Good. I don't want to leave that behind yet. because obviously your dad would have been head chef in Jury's Hotel during, you know, obviously a very poor time in cuisine terms in Ireland. You know, I mean, I remember the most exotic thing you could ever have in Ireland was chicken Kiev. And, you know, this was before, you know, cafe latte, mochiata, strachialata, all that sort of stuff iced. This was just like, give us a cup of coffee and a chicken Kiev and people would go, you have notions. Notions for ordering spaghetti bolognese. Like, do you remember that? But having said that, there were people like Sean Kinsella around running the Mirabeau.

8:13And there were, you know, Gilles Beaux was even probably a thing starting off around that similar time as well. So there were some famous names as well, weren't there? Yeah, no, absolutely. And some brilliant characters. But I owe the world an apology because it was my father who bought the first ever box of avocados. So all these bloody influencers are having avocado and everything. Sorry about that, guys. It's dad's fault. And when he went into the market, this was back in the day. So you go into your market As the executive head chef You go into the market And you say I'll have this And then they deliver it out And they didn't order in steaks Like dad The kitchen was just insane I remember being in it So many times in juries And they ordered They didn't order in steaks They ordered in cows You know they ordered in fish They ordered in full sheep You know they butchered Everything down themselves Like true craftsmen So your father would butcher an animal?

8:57Oh yeah absolutely And he butchered quite a few In his day I can tell you that I remember his office was incredible It was kind of on stilts In the middle of the kitchen In juries And I'd go in the back door all the time and I'd be standing up there and dad would just kind of stand it was just like a military gone to go these guys were doing huge numbers I'm talking to thousands of covers as you said about the coffee doc like I mean it was the only I think it closed for one hour in the evening from I don't know what it was probably for the chefs to have a few more beers before they went back to work again but a different world back then but yeah and I'm standing there as a kid watching dad and whatever way dad looked or moved or whatever you could see all the chefs were shitting themselves like they were going because this was this was literally run like a military but that was back in the day when you got away with all this kind of stuff So was he a hardcore dude?

9:37I mean, what kind of a personality was he? Was he more Gordon Ramsay than Gordon Lightfoot? Was he, you know, was he calm and controlled or was he military and loud and drill sergeanty? Was he capable of chucking up a guy against the wall and ramming his neck up against the wall and saying, I want that, you know, crudité done better or whatever? Yeah, I mean, like the gassing about that, and I think I got this from that actually, was that he just had to give the look, you know and everyone just went oh shit like I mean I better kind of do what this guy's you know saying before he even said anything I never saw him lose the rag it was too big of a machine to lose the rag you know because I mean if you had an executive chef there that was kind of people had no respect for well sure God only knows what the hell would be going on so I mean dad just I always say he can't demand respect he got to command it and dad was an expert at commanding respect and even still to this day I'm lucky I mean I tell my kids as well how lucky they are to have you know a grandfather that they can still have stories and chat away to and everything that you know There's still suppliers from back in the day.

10:36And some of the names, dad trained some of the most famous chefs that are on the go now at the moment. And to have them text me, ring me, how's your dad getting on and still talk about him, it says all about the man. And he's still around. Still around. What a great... And in decent health. Yeah, no, flying at half a minute. And every day I ring him and he's always cooking the lunch for mom. I say, what's on the menu today? Dad, I'm doing a lovely Dover sole today. I'm doing a nice bit of rack of lamb. He's a gas man, I've heard it. My curiosity was piqued by the names that you kind of flew through there a minute ago.

11:07Muhammad Ali, Grace Kelly, Frank Sinatra. So I remember like, I remember even story of Frank Sinatra coming to Ireland. And I remember a famous story of Brendan Grace doing a comedian spot for Frank Sinatra. And he took a big shining to Brendan Grace. That probably was the same time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely I think probably the most famous one was Elvis And everyone said, how do Elvis? So dad was, you know, over in Switzerland It's compulsory to do the military And so, you know, dad was on the trains Between Switzerland and Germany And when Elvis came over, that's where he cooked from And he cooked this dish of a wild guinea fowl With a wild forest mushroom sauce Not a hamburger the way everyone thinks it was But it was, yeah, a wild guinea fowl So we had that dish on the menu for a very long time The Elvis special And unfortunately our supplier went out with a wild guinea fowl so you could get other stuff but it wasn't as good quality.

11:57Muhammad Ali, 1972, fought Al Blue Lewis. That's right. And Muhammad Ali stayed in a friend of dad's hotel, you know, Dublin Sports Hotel, Kiltyrnan, where the fake ski slope was. And so... That's right. I mean, so many connections to this, so many connections to this podcast. Dave Hannigan wrote a book about that fight, the Al Blue Lewis fight in Crow Park, right? Fintan O'Toole, who was also on this podcast, his dad drove a bus. He was a bus driver, right? On the 44 bus in Enniskerry. and who did he pick up on the road? These guys were jogging along the road. They stopped the bus and Muhammad Ali got on the bus in Kilternan and that was exactly the time that you were talking about.

12:33Wow, well, I'll tell you what he ate. So Mr. Opperman, who owned the hotel at the time, brought Dad up. He was friends with Dad's and said, listen, got this kind of superstar staying with us for three, four days. Will you make sure you take care of him? So that's it. Oh, no problems. I'd bring up this or bring up that. He had a 20 ounce T-bone steak for breakfast, lunch and dinner, rare. That was it. Wow! No quarves, no nothing. He had six pound lead boots and his cardio training used to be running up and down the ski slope in his lead boots. An absolute character. And I have this amazing piece of memorabilia that dad gave me.

13:02It's the menu of the day in the hotel. And dad had like you name it on this menu for Muhammad Ali to try from. And it just says from the greatest to the greatest chef, Muhammad Ali. That is fantastic. Holy shit. Like, you know, what an amazing piece of memorabilia to have. We have this picture on the restaurant, actually, of Muhammad Ali sitting with mom. So it's a cool story. 20 ounce T-bone steak breakfast, lunch and dinner that was it rare so you're saying 60 ounces of steak 60 ounces now don't forget there's probably a good 4 or 5 ounce on each T-bone of a bone so probably 16 probably 16 ounce of meat breakfast, lunch and dinner and that was it that's all he ate no sides no sides no nothing no carbs no nothing that was it for 3 days in a row up to the fight it was incredible now you hear all these guys coming out with protein diets and the carnivore diets Muhammad Ali was miles ahead the whole lot of them no smashed avocado bollocks for Muhammad Ali and no chicken that was the funny thing Chicken Maryland I don't know if anybody remembers a Chicken Maryland with a piece of bloody banana, pineapple and bacon like me who came up with this only Michael Smurfett would have been able to have that at home or Tony O 'Reilly I'll have the Maryland again with the pineapple please unbelievable the funny thing at the menu the prices I mean like you're talking like a pound and 120 and you know 3p for like A big dish back then for your starter was half a grapefruit.

14:23Imagine you're not in the menu now. Half a grapefruit was all you got for a starter. Crazy stuff. Insane. It was a different world, different diet, a different Ireland completely. Yeah, no, a lot of me misses it. And so you became a chef. And Trevo's, is that the name of your restaurant, is a famous restaurant down in Kerry? In Killarney, yeah, on High Street. I always tell the people you'll never remember the name. So ladies were right across the road from Penny's and lads were right beside Paddy Powers. so at least that way they'll know exactly everybody can associate it with something. So yeah, we're there since 2003, March 2003 we opened up.

14:56And I think I first sort of became aware of you actually probably through the COVID period. You were quite outspoken about the COVID situation in terms of asking people if they were vaccinated or not. Take me through that journey that you were on there. Yes. I mean, look, COVID, to go back really quickly, COVID, in my opinion, and it's only my opinion, the policies that were put through by the government literally destroyed and was the start of the decimation of the tourism industry and hospitality industry. Simple things. When you think back of it and people, you know, they all have their own kind of opinions on it.

15:32But when you think back of it, you know, stand up, wear a mask, sit down, don't. You know, COVID knows how high you are. You know, stay the night in a hotel. You can no problems. But if you're not, no, because COVID knows if you're staying the night. have a nine euro chicken nugget meal. You're fine. You can do that because COVID knows if you're eating. And the big one was 11 o 'clock, everybody gone to bed because COVID was that smart. It knew what time it was. So I'm looking at all these policies and I'm going, look, I mean, I understand. I closed my restaurant before anyone even told me to close the restaurant because I mean, the way it was being sold was I thought zombies were coming running down the road after us.

16:02And I got all the team together and I said, listen, guys, I said, this looks pretty serious. I said, let's just close down for a week or two and see what happens. I said, I'm expecting them to shut us down anyway. I said, but let's just see what happens. And hopefully we'll be back, you know, within a week or two. And little did I know. And then when you kind of saw what was going on, how some places were allowed open and some places weren't. And then you're seeing all the interviews were just one-on-one with the CMO of Ireland or with the Taoiseach of Ireland or with the Tornish of Ireland. I'm going, can nobody debate this or can nobody question this?

16:33And still I'm playing the goody-goody two-shoes guys and saying, no, no, this is okay. So after about a month, I said, look, we can actually open up again the insanity of it. we can open up a kind of a, you know, a pop-up deli. That's fine. But the restaurant isn't what the pop-up deli is. So we did that because at this stage, I was telling my wife, if you tell me one more time to hoover a room, you know, God only knows you won't be found again. I mean, this was like me. You can't stop a workaholic from working. It was just crazy. And that's exactly what I am. So we opened up the pop-up deli and I'm watching more and more stuff going on.

17:01I go, this just does not add up, you know, from business sense I'm talking about. And then I think the real kind of push came to show was when they allowed the hotels, bars and restaurants open and not the standalone bar and restaurants. And I was going, hang on a second. This is absolute insanity now at this stage. So I got both Leo Varadkar and Micheál Martin to admit in the Dáil and the Shannad to say we don't have any scientific evidence to say that it's any more dangerous within a hotel or a standalone bar or restaurant, but this is what we're doing anyway. And I went, right, well, that's it.

17:30That's it. All bets are off now. You're just, you're making your own decisions on this. This is insane. And I was shouting and screaming that you can't close down an industry for a year or two years and not expect severe consequences to follow, which is mean that the cost of everything is going to go through the roof and that you're giving away all this free money and there's no such thing as a free dinner. So you're going to want it back. So tax is going to be increased. Employees RSI is going to be increased. They're going to bring up the minimum wage so that they can tax that and bring that.

17:56And I said, this is what's going to follow two years of free money, which is exactly what's happened. And I was getting the usual shite from, you know, some of the presenters on the RTS and, you know, but you're not a qualified doctor. I said, you No, I know I'm not a qualified doctor, but this guy is more qualified than our CMO who's come out of Harvard. How about you just put the two of them together? Because he's saying the complete opposite to what our CMO was saying. And no, no, no, shut up. And that was the kind of the start of the beginning of my cancellation, I'd say, was because they couldn't argue with me.

18:26And all I was doing was asking questions. I was going, look, look. So I wasn't coming on a COVID, you know, nonsense and the jab 5G, any that kind of shite. I was just asking questions, going, are you sure? because you're telling me that the supermarkets can open but we've got to close off the toy part because we can't have the kids getting the toys but it's okay for everyone to walk around and I have an 80-seater restaurant just let me have 20 in it I'll put two here, two here, four there and if you allow me to do that two, three sittings I don't need any of your free money because I don't want it I don't want to be dependent on the state because I know what follows when that happens which is exactly what happened but my one big mistake which is what I really learned in COVID is year one when they kept all the bars closing for a two week period bars were allowed open for maybe one or two weeks and in the first year the crazy policies were that you could only stay for an hour and 45 minutes and that you had to be gone by 11 so I was going look it's 6pm sitting sorry guys you've got to be gone by quarter to 8 you know and that gives me time to turn around for 8 o 'clock and then the 8 o 'clock sitting will come in and I say listen lass I don't give a shite as long as you're gone by 11 because you've got to be gone by 11 so they were saying could we have another bottle of wine because we even know where to go and I was going yeah and I was going jeez this is great my drink sales went through the roof.

19:36And it's fantastic. Until year two, when they shut us down as well, full time. And I went, do you know what? What a mistake I made. I should have stood with all the bar, the bar owners on year one and said, no, no, no, I'm fighting with these guys. No, no, let's take the fight together. Because now what they've done is they've separated us. And because I didn't stand with the bars, well, then I couldn't ask anybody to stand with me on year two when we were shut down as well. So if I learned anything from the whole COVID debacle is that even if you're affected, or if you're not affected with what's going on, if you have one particular industry that are, you know, hand on heart and really passionate about what they're saying, saying, look, this is wrong.

20:12Stand with the guy. Even if you're not affected, stand with him because that's the only way things change. And I think that mentality and that attitude really brought on the ultimate cancellation of me from TV and radio. Okay. Really, nearly everything you said there, I think is very reasonable. It really is. And I think in retrospect, we are still in a kind of a PTSD stroke denial about what happened during COVID. Hence the idea that a lot of times when you bring up COVID, people go, oh, Jesus, don't say that. We don't want to talk about that anymore. And there's a certain amount of truth in that because we don't want to remember it.

20:46We want to move on. But there's also a certain amount of denial in it. And the denial concerns the, what now appear to be irrefutable evidence, a natural irrefutable evidence that there was so many mistakes made. In my view, they're understandable mistakes. It's almost impossible to control a situation like that. These guys, Leo Varadkar and Michal Martin, they also are not doctors. They're taking advice, rumination and consultation from all sorts of other people. And they're just then enacting it. Something has to be done. It's going to be rough around the edges. It's going to be really, really flawed.

21:24It was, it is accepted as such. I don't think they particularly want to talk about how wrong they were. You know, I mean, you're not going to find politicians admitting that they were wrong at the best of times to admit that they were wrong four years ago. They're not really into that either. You know, they're not into really having a tribunal and going we got we ballsed everything up. OK, probably one of the things that was most interesting, though, about kind of what you said was this idea that we were being told stuff by scientists. Yet in true scientific and true scientific fashion, we weren't allowed to question the scientists.

21:59And that's, of course, exactly what science is supposed to be. Science is supposed to be test, test, test, result, question the result, question the test and move on. We were not allowed to question anything. Nobody was allowed to question anything, which is completely unscientific. To which extent science was actually being treated like the thing we feared most, a religion. These guys might as well have been going around with cones on their head because they were treated like religious overlords, which is, of course, the last thing they should be treated as. So the whole thing was upside down.

22:30And of course, there's an enormous amount of sense, bizarre, absurd, surreal sense about what you said. And I don't think anybody could deny that. Having said that, your view, just to finish this particular area, the COVID thing, did that pour over into your views regarding the disease itself? So, for example, you know, sometimes when you fall down on one side of the fence and you're kind of there, I'm Paul Travaux. They're wrecking my business. I'm outspoken. A lot of people are telling me I'm right. A lot of people are a lot of people. Common sense are saying I'm right. I'm going to fall into kinship now with other people.

23:09And those other people are there like, yeah, the vaccine is bollocks as well. And fucking chemtrails are real. A man didn't land on the moon. And Neil Armstrong was on COVID there and all this sort of stuff. So I'm wondering, did that happen to you? Did you turn into a total nutcase? Am I talking to a spanner head at the moment? Well, you are talking to a total nutcase, but thankfully none of those... I mean, look, there's no doubt. When I put myself out there, I was being approached by so many guys. You know, Bill Gates knows your number now. You know that if you got the jab and all. Will you put that on your Twitter because you have such a following?

23:40And I was going, now you're all right, mate. And, you know, the earth is flat. And I was going, well, if earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off it by now. So I'm not so sure about that, you know. And the moon, and I was going, look I can understand how people come up with all these ideas the problem so I'm a firm believer that you know the reason why people start doubting and start questioning is because of how it's handled by the government and if the government give you and I agree a thousand percent what you say nobody knew what was coming and everybody did what they thought was right at the time but now all of a sudden you started getting Billy Big balls going around here like remember Michael Jackson was in the famous interview and he realized that every time he moved the paparazzi were taking his photo so he'd do this and he'd put his hands up and he'd turn his head to the side and anyone would be clicking.

24:21So I think these guys now turn around and say, well, let's actually see, you know, how much we can push on this. This might, like, again, my own opinion, that they were, like, some of the policies and some of the regulations we had to do were just absolutely stupid. Probably one of the most famous ones that I think got me my biggest kind of profile over Twitter was when Mio Martin said he was going over to Joe Biden with a bowl of shamrock for St. Patrick's Day. And I turn around, I say, if that man gets on a plane and goes over to meet Joe Biden in Washington with a bowl of shamrock I'm opening my fucking restaurant tomorrow because I can't go two miles down the road so stop talking shit lads and I got and I turned around I just went do you know what actually as soon as I said that out loud I just went that defines the insanity of it there's no denying it's like you know try argue drink driving with somebody who's lost a loved one to somebody who would knock them over that was drunk driving so how do you argue COVID with somebody who lost somebody from COVID there's no doubt COVID was a serious virus 100 % it was so serious you had to get tested to see if you had it and it was so serious that the virus that they said didn't do anything.

25:21They're the big things in my opinion. Here's what the vaccine is going to do. And it didn't do what it said. And then the last line, and I'll never forget this, and people have to be reminded of this. No symptoms is a symptom. And I went for fuck's sake, guys. You're just ticking every box here. Asymptomatic. Yeah. So I mean, so if I don't have it, no, you do. How do you know? Because you're not showing you how. But I said, fuck off. Come on. You're taking the piss now. And as we went on and on and on, I was kind of going now I didn't fall down any rabbit holes I mean I'd guys turn around and say here do you need to see my vaccine passport and I said no I don't give a shite come on in you're in the restaurant I didn't ask for anybody's vaccine passport however I had to when my staff were coming in I turned around and said you guys aren't going to get in trouble and if somebody picked up the phone saying we need a vaccine passport to come into your restaurant I was going look it's not me who sets the rules and regulations because I was getting all kinds of fucking nut jobs you know trying to catch me out and put it all over the press and the last thing I was going to have was somebody walk in because we'd already put the risk by shutting them down.

26:19When we stayed open and I took the hit, I paid them all the wages that they were due. So we got the PUP, which was, you know, the pandemic money and I topped it up. So none of my staff were down money because I said to the guys, under no circumstances, are you guys going to be out of pocket? So I took the hit. The return investment I got was, I still have the exact same team right now. The greatest team ever because they saw what I would do for them. My issue is, and we can move on to this or talk about it later on, is that I agree that yes, lessons will be learned, that famous story that they say, but they're doing the exact same thing now with immigration.