Part 2 of Marion McKeone: Trump’s intelligence, Robert F Kennedy’s ruthlessness, Olivia Nuzzi’s Facetime affair, and Jeffrey Epstein’s death.

0:00Coming up on this episode of the Mario Rosenstock podcast. And I've covered so many of those MAGA rallies. I can't even begin to tell you. My heart used to go out to so many of those people. I don't mean that in a patronising way, but you could see their despair. They were coming from hollowed out kips in Ohio, places with no jobs, no factories, opioid, having wreaked havoc through every family. And they were just desperate. And they really believed they had been abandoned. and his control of a crowd, his, and it is that lizard brain instinct of what to say, how to communicate. He has communication skills.

0:31So you can despise the man or not, but they are undeniable.

0:44If you enjoyed part one of my chat about American politics with Marion McKeown last time, then you're going to love part two. This time we get stuck into some of the key characters in the crazy story that is the USA today. Characters like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the anti-vax U.S. health secretary with a worm in his brain. Olivia Nuzzi, the Machiavellian and ruthless journalist that had an affair with RFK Jr., the late Jeffrey Epstein, who was having a major impact on U.S. politics even several years after his death. Pete Hegseth, Howard Lutnick, who they all call Nutlik, and many, many more. We also ask some important questions, Like, really, how intelligent is Donald Trump?

1:25Did a bullet actually hit his ear in the assassination attempt in Pennsylvania? And did Jeffrey Epstein really take his own life? Or was he killed? Marion has been covering US politics and culture for decades. She's also been all over the country, attended scores of MAGA rallies, been in the White House press group and met all the big players. This is a fascinating chat, as you would expect. He had a tremendous early career as an environmental lawyer. No, he didn't. No? I'm going to hold you up there. He had a couple of big victories, but I knew people who worked for the National Resource Defence Council and they said he was an asshole.

2:00His cellmate, in a complete breach of protocol, was removed from the cell, so he was left alone in the cell, even though he was on suicide watch. The two prison guards who were on duty at that time both fell asleep at exactly the same time for exactly the same amount of time. And then you have to believe that there are vital bits of tape that just mysteriously went missing. Come on. He was 30, 40 years older than her at the time Set her up in an apartment in New York Paid her college fees Bought her all these fancy clothes You know, I mean, she was 18, 19 That's just wrong These are all the masters of the universe, okay?

2:33And then you see the emails to Epstein And you think, Jesus A 14-year-old schoolboy Would have more depth and more literacy It's like, these are the guys that are running the world These are the guys that are the billionaires Part two of my chat with Marion McKeown Coming up right after Well it's Christmas party season folks And I do believe that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil Are actually having a joint Christmas party For the first time ever since the Civil War It's the Christmas party season And Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil Are having their first ever joint Christmas party Going forward These volophanes are very tasty These cocktail sausages are off the charts Me all We must use these caterers again Simon Harris did all the catering She's not here What?

3:21Guys I hope you're enjoying the hors d 'oeuvres Simon do you not have enough on your plate going forward Without taking on all these extra jobs Look Michal I want to be very clear The people of Ireland want value for money And this cost of living crisis And I made a commitment a long time ago To do a week long course in Ballymaloe House And I made this happen Anybody for more pigs in a blanket? I'm getting a bit sick of his carry on going forward I'm looking forward to a good bop tonight Who's the DJ, Michal? Alright everybody, I want to be very clear about this Let's see your hands in the air I don't believe it Forget Calvin Harris This is DJ Simon Harris And this is a banger Come on, Michal I love Maniac 2000 Meanwhile, former President of Ireland Michael D.

4:02Higgins Is at home for his Christmas party in Galway Rush, what guests are we expecting tonight, Sabina? We're not expecting anyone, Michael D It's just you and me now, remember? Get the air to camp I'm sure that there are people queuing up to see me. But there is no way to comp anymore, Michael D. I've ordered Domino's pizza. Is that it? Fourteen years as president and just this. Domino's pizza and only foods and horses on repeat. Quiet. There it is. Oh, hello, Michael. Jesus. Michael D., it's Michael Harding. Tell him I've got the flu or something or I've got a cold. I couldn't bear listening to him waffling on about winter all night.

4:39Just tell him... Michael, he's got a bit of a flu. That will be the winter for you. Thanks. God's sake. Back in Dublin, the last word Christmas party is in full swing. Dermot, stick on Rush again there, will you? Look, Cal, Trump is the very antithesis of the spirit of Christmas. Marion, I disagree. Santa is dressed in red, he's an old man, and he's a Republican. It's clear. Oh, come on, Cal. If Trump had his way, he would deport Santa Claus. Don't be silly, Marion. Or have Pete Hexitt blow him out of the sky. for coming over the border illegally. Look, we have to leave it there, OK? Yes, Charlie Weston.

5:20Matt, these Dunn stores chicken wings. Yes. They're very way overpriced, Matt. This is price gouging at an enormous scale, Matt. OK, OK, thanks a million, Charlie. We'll come back to that. Frank Greeney, give us an old story from the courts there. Get lost, will you, Matt? What? Give it a rest. Crack open a can and loosen out for once in your life. Oh, Saturday. Back at Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael's joint party. Ah, going forward. I do not believe my eyes. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, and a very happy Christmas from me, Santa Claus. Let's see who's been naughty and who's been nice. Hildegard Nocton, come over here and sit on my knee.

5:56Have you been naughty or nice, Hildegard? Michal, it's Jim Gavin. He's at the door. Jesus, don't let him in, Willie, for God's sake. I just want a word with the guy. I just want a quick word with the guy. Good luck, Jim, good luck. Meanwhile, over at the Croke Park Residence Association Christmas party. Great year, lads. Yeah, absolute banger of a year, Tony. Yeah, come here. Who have we got next year, lads? Let's see if we've got Bon Jovi coming in. Bon Jovi next year, lads. Oh, what a happy day. Oh, yeah. Take my... Lads, it's the managing director of Croke Park at the door here. Would you mind keeping it down, please?

6:34What? We're trying to have a board meeting over there. Darnie, sorry. Just keep it down. We're sick to the teeth of your disruptive behaviour every year. Same story all the time. Keep it down. Thank you. Apologies. Sorry about that. An exclusive new comedy on the Mario Rosenstock podcast every week. And this podcast is, of course, free to you, the listener, the great listener. And all I ask is that you tell one other person, if you can, that you have enjoyed this podcast and ask them to tune in. Our numbers are growing all the time. And thank you for that. if you want to contact me it's mariorosenstock at gmail.com for any reason at all to comment about the podcast to ask where I'm on tour I'm going to London on February 7th with Gift Grub Live and then I'm doing a small mini tour of Ireland Mullingar Arts Centre Dean Crow Theatre Lime Tree Theatre and Wexford and Black Box Theatre in Galway in the new year and you can see those venues for details yourself but you can get in touch with me about anything suggestions for new characters suggestions for new guests some praise approbation or constructive criticism always welcome.

7:40So we've saved some of the best and juiciest stories of part two of my chat with Marion McKeown till last. After over 30 years of the coalface of US political coverage Marion has had access to people and information that not many others have. So you're in for a treat we kick off this part of our conversation with an analysis of the intelligence or otherwise of Commander-in-Chief Donald J. Trump. The debate continues right down through the last 10 years between people, between rational people, the debate continues, as to whether Trump is smart or dumb. Okay? And it staggers me. It staggers me that people would even entertain the idea that he's smart.

8:21Now, wait for it. Obviously, I know that he has a primordial cunning to defend himself. Big old lizard brain going on. Like the lizard brain. Lizards are one of the most unintelligent creatures that have ever lived. They are also cunning. Rats. Yeah. Rats, again, are cunning. It's primordial. The urge to defend oneself, to know when you're under danger. Yeah. Right? That's different. And to find a way out the mariposa. But even on the basic element of never, doesn't understand any concept, doesn't have any information or knowledge, doesn't know who anybody, lack of interest. He doesn't know anything.

8:54Yeah. Right? He doesn't know anything. He doesn't understand anything. So he doesn't understand the way the economy works. Yeah. He doesn't understand the way tariffs work. Yeah. He doesn't understand, his latest thing, Bitcoin. He doesn't have any clue about foreign relations. He is being completely taken to the cleaners by Putin and he can't even see it. He's completely out-negotiated. The master negotiator is utterly, completely out-negotiated by anybody he negotiates with. Pretty much. But I think that his, I've met him several times and I remember covering events before in New York. What he has, and I've covered, God knows, so many of those MAGA rallies.

9:31I can't even begin to tell you. You told me all about it before. He has. And how good some of those MAGA people were. Yeah. And there are a lot of really, my heart used to go out to so many of those people. I don't mean that in a patronising way, but you could see their despair. They were coming from hollowed out kips in Ohio, places with no jobs, no factories, opioid having wreaked havoc through every family. And they were just desperate. And they really believed they had been abandoned. They were Clinton voters, you know, back in the day, who they thought had just been completely abandoned by everyone.

10:00But anyway, you would see... You've met him a few times, yeah. Yeah, and his control of a crowd, his, and it is that lizard brain instinct of what to say, how to communicate. He has communication skills. Now, you can despise the man or not, but they are undeniable. They are undeniable. And he knows how to rally. Panto, Panto, WWE communication skills, but nevertheless, communication skills. but they work exactly but let's put it into the context he would have communication skills the same as Vince McMahon has communication skills in the WWE or Linda McMahon who's education imagine this I know she was I remember she I watched it in the years years ago Linda McMahon was in WWE and she played a role where she was drugged right and she'd appear on stage drugged while Vince McMahon gets off with this cutie in front of her oh my god Vince McMahon kissing the beautiful Barbarella in front of his drugged out wife and it's Linda McMahon on stage pretending she's drugged out she is now the Secretary of Education not only the Secretary of Education she's the Secretary of Education and they're disbanding the entire education system exactly they're ripping it asunder and meanwhile you have the ex-heroin addict with a worm in his brain running the Department of Health that's what I wanted to get on to next the guy with the worm in his brain is John F.

11:16Kennedy Jr. John F. Kennedy Jr. John F. Kennedy Jr. sorry Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Jr., RFK Jr., who is roundly disowned by his entire family, as far as I understand. He is a vaccine sceptic who apparently doesn't even care about vaccines. No. But this is just a show. It's been quite lucrative for him. Yeah, it's been lucrative. He had a tremendous early career as an environmental lawyer. No, he didn't. No. I'm going to hold you up there. He had a couple of big victories, but I knew people who worked for the National Resource Defence Council and they said he was an asshole. An asshole. that what he did was he swooped in, he took all the glory.

11:54The organisation, the Riverkeeper, which he was the big, and I remember being at a Riverkeeper event years ago in New York, and a friend of mine who was a lawyer who worked, you know, they had, all the Democrats have this big crush in the Kennedy's. He was going, oh, you've got to meet Bobby, you've got to meet Bobby. I met Bobby. Bobby was an asshole. You know, I mean, he's an arrogant, kind of obnoxious, weird individual. So anyway, but the Riverkeeper organisation was set up by somebody else. he came in, he bigfooted them, he pushed them out and then it's all like this is me, this is me. So this is what he does and he also brought in ironically a buddy of his onto the panel of Riverkeeper who was convicted for smuggling in rare birds into America.

12:33You know, and this is the environmental organisation. So in any case he is a very, very peculiar almost Baroque individual. A person of very very questionable desires tastes he is he's a sick puppy right he's a sick puppy but the reason I introduced this subject is tell us the story of Olivia Nutzi or Nutzi is she nuts or is she Nutzi do you know something I kind of have to admit this story you know for journalists this is such a it's the story that keeps on giving okay so Olivia Nutzi young reporter no Olivia Nutzi started not as a reporter she started as an intern on Anthony Weiner. Remember Anthony Weiner?

13:18Who used to send in... I have news for you. She actually started before that. She released a pop single. She did. And it was called Jailbait. And she said, 16, looking like 20. So she was always trying to make a name for herself. Yes. And that seems to... She seems to have settled on her brand quite early, if that's what it was. Because at the age of 18, 19, she was going out with Keith Obermann, who was the big ESPN commentator on MSNBC. He was 30, 40 years older than her at the time. set her up in an apartment in New York, paid her college fees, bought her all these fancy clothes, et cetera, et cetera.

13:49You know, I mean, she was 18, 19 and he was like, that's just wrong. You know, it's just wrong. But anyway, so she went from Obermann to Ryan Litz, a very high profile writer for The New Yorker at the time, only 20 years older than her, nothing to get excited about. And they were shacked up. While she was shacked up with him, she had an affair with Mark Sanford. This no Mark governor, former governor of South Carolina, who was running for president against Trump in 2020. That was clearly going nowhere. And she went to interview him. He's only about 40 years older than her, so she had an affair with him.

14:21And then she goes to profile, in case we're seeing a pattern, she goes to profile Bobby. She shags everybody she interviews. But she didn't have sex with Bobby Kennedy. They only had FaceTime sex, which is a new concept. Oh, it's great. I do it every day. That's it. Only FaceTime. And then it seems to have gone on for about a year, But what she did during that year was she worked, she went from being a reporter and she was a high profile reporter who was covering Trump and covering all these people. She did these things where a guy like I say, she's a high profile. Somebody who worked for Kennedy came to her and wanted to be a source to tell her about the shit show that was his campaign.

15:01No surprise to anyone. And she said, oh, no, no, no. You know, you just stay working and be loyal to him. And then she went and told Kennedy she burnt her source. as a journalist she should have used that source for the profile or whatever instead she burnt the source told Kennedy this guy was leaking about him and got him fired there was then another reporter who worked for the New Yorker called Claire Malone who the story everyone loves about Kennedy the bear in the park the bear in the park prank because she was a colleague from a rival magazine Nutzi got wind that she had this great story and everyone had heard oh my god the New Yorker profile they've got this story about Kennedy in a bear in Central Park and so Nutzi tips off Kennedy to shaft her colleague.

15:43This story's going to come out and then Kennedy's able to get ahead of it with some bizarre online interview with Roseanne Barr. But anyway, so she's doing all this kind of thing and then she's advising Kennedy. She's catching and killing other stories. She's meant to be a reporter. She's working as a professional journalist at the time, covering the political campaign. It's outrageous. But meanwhile then, her boyfriend, ex-Ryan Lizza, decides he hears she's got this book coming out, American Canto. Oh my God, it's shockingly bad. It came out yesterday. And he says, right, that's it. So he's going to make a bit of money out of all this.

16:16So he has this account on TELUS, which you can subscribe to, and for$10 or$9 or whatever, he gives the whole inside track. So getting ahead of our book, he dishes all the dirt about not just Kennedy, but Sanford and all these other people and all this other scandal. Claims that she sent in somebody to Mar-a-Lago, who was going to do a pen portrait of Trump for a piece she was writing shoved a tape recorder in her bag so that she could tape record everything Trump was saying while the portrait was being done. Lizard claims that something was said that made it sound like Butler, Pennsylvania where Trump, the assassination temp, was a set up.

16:50But then he comes back and everything's hanging and it's like dot dot dot. But you know what? The sound quality was very bad and they couldn't corroborate it and she told Bobby and Bobby said just delete it. So there are so many things just in that alone. if you are a reporter, any kind of a reporter, and you have this information, I mean, Ryan Lizzie here, why do you sit on it for a year? Why don't, you know, if you know that, like, there are so many things that are wrong with this story that both of these reporters are saving, and it's happening in Washington a lot, that journalists are sitting on stories for their books.

17:24They're saving really important, essential information for their books. You know, and I just think that that is disgusting. So, anyway, so, was this all loaded horseshit about Trump saying something about Butler you know we don't know because you know but it just seems there are so many questions that should be asked and of course nobody's asking Kennedy what he was thinking you know because he's only he's only married you know to this other long-suffering talk about heart-imitating life the woman who played Larry David's wife the long-suffering is now Bobby Kennedy's long-suffering wife in real life and has just written a ridiculous book about her version of life with Bobby which is as Bobby Washington, Sane Washington as you can imagine.

18:07And the whole thing is just, to me, it's like, if you want just a metaphor for all that's wrong with journalism in Washington at the moment. And all the things we spoke about where tough questions aren't being asked, people aren't defending each other, they're not defending their colleagues. It's all about your own access. It's all about your own brand. Craven, banality. Yeah, and it's all about you being the story. And I just find that... Just a brief conspiracy theory there, right? Obviously, two things about conspiracy theory. This is one of the problems about Trump and this era we're living in is that there is an inevitable and sad two-sided, two-sidedness that goes on.

18:50So basically, you have a man who goes, okay, Trump said all women are pigs, but are all women pigs? You know, so we have a man... Trevor Carlson, just asking questions. So we have a man who says women aren't pigs. And then we have another man, Trump, who says women are pigs. Right. So we argue this out. But of course, that's not an argument. I mean, you can't say this. Or similarly, then we have to do an argument of did man walk on the moon or did man not walk on the moon? Or we have one man on the left here. We have one man on the left. Two sides. We have one man on the left who says the earth is flat and another man who believes the earth is sphere.

19:23We're going to give equal time to each of these people. I mean, it's madness what's become. So in other words, because Trump has thumbed the scales, we now have to give equal sides to people who are completely batshit crazy. But we don't. Well, the media is. The New York Times is disgraceful in that. That's kind of what I mean. The New York Times, to my mind, has, it's just, it's reputation. It has just embarrassed itself so often. And I think it's Joe Cannes, this new editor since 22, is just a diabolical editor. Okay, so that's not what I wanted to get at. So what I wanted to get at was just, so obviously I don't believe in many conspiracy theories, although it depends on what you mean by a conspiracy theory.

20:04Define a conspiracy theory. Exactly. I mean, if you believe, for example, that the big companies in the world all want to make us spend more money, well, they do. That's not a conspiracy theory. I think that's probably a fact. Exactly. I think the big companies would admit it. If I said to you that large pharmaceutical companies, for example, would kind of be happy enough if we all remained not dead, but sick, they'd probably go you know that kind of makes just on this side of death you know just kind of hanging in there long enough I remember it reminds me of that thing Brian Cowan said years ago inadvertently when he was Minister for Health he said the problem with the health system is that there's too many people staying alive and he didn't mean it in a bad way he said the more people that are alive the more expensive it's going to be and he actually said the problem is everybody's living longer but you know he's got a point He does have a point but it was kind of inadvertent He could have phrased it a little better maybe But here's me Let Mario do a little conspiracy theory or investigate Again you're coming from a different list It's Trump's assassination attempt right in Butler, Pennsylvania Just ask a question like what this guy Thomas Crooks why have we never heard about him or seen much about him and the second of all is like did a bullet hit Trump's ear or was it a shrapnel and if so why wasn't there any bit of Trump's ear missing and if so apparently cartilage doesn't grow back.

21:25Why was Trump's ear completely blemish free? Can you answer any of these questions? No, but I know that several people, including a Republican military guy that I was talking to at the convention and that was when Trump was wearing the big bandage. And, you know, one of the most surreal things I ever saw in covering politics 35 years was all the people in the crowd wearing the co-texes. All the men were wearing the bandages and the co-texes on their ears and the red ties to signal loyalty to Trump. Horst Vessel it's Horst Vessel it's like this thing the Nazis had a character called Horst Vessel who was killed in one of the early 1920s things you know he came forward and they used to have the ballad of Horst Vessel and it's like that thing of the Babbit or the lady that was killed in the January 6th Ashley Babbit it's like the Horst Vessel moment but anyway so like yeah but I'm just wondering what do you think about this it looked a bit weird this military guy who seemed to know a lot about bullets and armaments and all that, said that he didn't think it was possible that the sort of bullet that was used could have gone that close to Trump's head without causing some kind of a brain bleed or some other injury, even if it didn't touch.

22:36Just the percussive force, I believe, was the term that he used. So he thinks that it hit something, there was a bit of glass, a bit of wood, something like that. I think that might be an explanation. It doesn't mean it wasn't an assassination attempt. Correct. It was an assassination attempt, but did the bullet actually graze his ear as it's claimed? Unlike. So in other words it likely could have been a bit of shrapnel right? But how did this fella get up onto the roof if people had seen him earlier on in the day up on the roof? They reported him to the police. You know honestly Honestly how does the fella get up onto the roof?

23:07Okay that was quite a low roof. I've been to so many of those things and I'm always amazed at how lax the security actually is. Not so much lax as inefficient. I mean I was at a How many shots did he get off too? I think somebody said eight. What? Somebody said eight. But I know that poor man who was the supporter who was killed immediately behind him and somebody else was injured, I think. But I've heard two and I've heard eight. Now, I don't know. Because, as you say, there's been an astonishing lack of any kind of an inquiry or anything published. But do you find that strange? I do find that strange, yeah.

23:41I do. And I find the lack of curiosity about it really strange as well. I find that really strange. We just move on to the news cycle. Trump assassination yesterday. Tomorrow, quiet piggy. It seems in the last month, believe it or not, that things have even ratcheted up even further in terms of mad behaviour. Yeah. And mad goings on, shall we say. There's a spinning out, isn't there? There is a spinning out. But then again, I have a reason for the spinning out. I'm wondering, is it something to do with the Epstein files? And I'm wondering, is it something to do with the imminent release of the Epstein files?

24:11And if so, are they imminently going to be released? And if so, do you know if they're... I don't know. Oh, you don't know. Aren't they supposed to be very soon? They are supposed to be released. They had 30 days from that legislation, which was, what date was that? The 19th November, was it? So in the next week or two, they should be. But you know what? If they are released, there are so many things about this. Okay, first of all, the Treasury has a separate set of files. Now, I really believe, like I think a lot of journalists do, that if you want to get to the bottom of something, you follow the money.

24:42But you can't follow the money because the Treasury has a whole separate set of Epstein files that deal with all these financial transactions. they're not part of the Epstein files I have no idea but the Treasury is holding on to them and they're not releasing them that would take another order to get those released so I think there's a big chunk that we're not there's going to be a big gap there that's not going to be filled in there's also because Pam Bondi the Attorney General says that she's investigating a whole bunch of Democrats she can say we can't release any of this because this is relevant to our investigation so we're not releasing this until after our investigation is completed and that's going to take oh let me think until probably November the 3rd, 2028.

25:20You know, so they can just drag that out. They might release little bits that are harmless, little bits that damage Democrats. They're never going to release everything. I think people kind of need to realise that. It's just not going to happen. And who knows what has been torn up, destroyed. There's apparently, is it three terabytes of information? Like some enormous amount of stuff. Who, like, how hard is it to tear out a page to delete something to erase something. You know, I mean, it took a thousand FBI officers, I think it was 80 hours, to go through all of the files just looking for Trump's name.

25:56And they found, by God, did they find it. But, you know, I mean, the volume, the video, the digital, all of the stuff, the documents, the phone calls, the texts, the amount of information is bewildering. So I don't think that even if it all came out tomorrow, even if they dumped everything tomorrow, it would probably take a year for people to mind their way through it. If you just look at the logic, Trump and Epstein, best friends in the 80s, 90s. Trump owned Miss Teen Universe, Beauty Pageant then, and Miss Universe. He, Melania, Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell were constantly photographed together.