REPOST: How dogs saved my life – Niall Harbison

0:00Coming up on this episode of the Mario Rosenstock podcast. I thought I was dead I really did I was like this is it and the revelation in that moment was Jesus what a miserable life I was thinking I was like yeah you eat a couple of businesses you were a chef nobody's going to give a shit in six months like he's like what a meaningless load of shit that was like really that's what I was thinking it was like you know brilliant it was a good realisation so I just that's when I decided if I lived somehow I would change my life completely

0:42And that was the moment that everything changed for Niall Harbison. And it wasn't a moment too soon because not only was he desperately unhappy with how he was living his life, but his addiction to drink and prescription drugs had brought him to the point of near death. Niall's story is a brilliant one. It's a fascinating one. I adored talking to Niall. He was a very successful entrepreneur, having set up and sold a social media marketing agency and the very popular and sometimes controversial Lovin' Dublin media brand. But a combination of burnout and partying a little too hard, a little too often, led him to cut ties with Ireland and start a new life and a calmer, healthier one in Thailand.

1:18But unfortunately, things got not better, but worse. And he woke up in hospital one day and promised himself that he was going to turn his life around. Today, Niall is one of Thailand's most active stray dog welfare champions, rescuing, feeding and sterilising as many of the millions of dogs as he can find. He's happy, healthy and living a meaningful, impactful life. And I'm delighted that he was my guest on the Mario Rosenstock podcast and turned out to be one of the most, I don't know, interesting conversations I personally feel I've had in quite a while. I would be the only person then for the third day drinking and by the third day I'm scared of the world don't want to go outside so I'll just get 12 cans of Guinness and I'll watch two football games and I'll just drink at home but then by the Sunday you're waking up at 11 and you've got the shakes and you're like sure I'll just get straight on the wine because that'll stop the shakes and you know by the end of it you're absolutely drinking on your own miserable, don't want to go outside I said right I keep failing here at getting sober so I'm going to go and try and do it in Thailand I just wanted something different.

2:26And then the alcoholism and the depression and everything. I said, I'll just clean break. Let's start a new life. Did it work? No, it got worse. I was like, okay, the goal today is drive down to a little local park and you've got to walk 1K. Some days I had to put it off. I'd be standing at the door being like, okay, this is it. We can do it. We can do it. And then I'd be like, no, no, no. Back to the sofa. We'll, we'll, we'll tackle that tomorrow. Like my mom walked out when I was like 12, 13 years old, just vanished overnight and left. us for another man. And when we're, I thought we're a happy family.

2:57So I think dogs are really, really loyal and they'll never sort of walk out on you. They're always by your side. They're just so simple, loyal, beautiful, fun, loving creatures. But first, can you take your eyes off Wimbledon? It's that thing, isn't it? When we were kids, we used to put the net on the road, two pieces of wire or whatever, or rope and get our tennis rackets out and do it for two weeks every year. And it's all over the screens again, Wimbledon, the beautiful luscious green grass, the nostalgia that it brings back and the beautiful, you know, crispy whites that they wear and that distinctive sound of ball on racket and the tradition and fascination that Wimbledon holds for many of us.

3:43And it's on again, but it's not on RTE. RTE never seem to carry it anymore. Maybe it's because they have no tennis commentators that could probably do it justice. But what if RTE could carry Wimbledon? Could they? What would it sound like? This is what it would sound like.

4:01Well, you're very welcome back to Wimbledon and I have to say the place is a sea of strawberries and cream here today. This is a huge match between this Spanish fella, Carlos Alcaraz I think they call him he's only about 5 foot 11 and 12 stone he's a tiny little fella anyway he's up against the Croatian Marin Cilic now this fella he's an absolute monster he's 6 foot 7 if he's an inch taller anyway he's the serves he's serving they're coming down at about 140 miles an hour can you imagine this that kind of speed going through the Jack Lynch tunnel coming at you anyway let's go over to court 2 and join Marty Morrissey Thank you, Donald Lenehan.

4:46From Kazakhstan to Miami, from Chile to Perth, Australia, they have come to SW19 in London for this historic occasion. Tennis, hurling with fluffy balls. And here are the favourites for the doubles match. Oh, the Americans, they get the ball, they throw it. It looks good. It's over. Oh, no! It's in the net! It's in the net! It's in the net! That must be three points. Or is it? No, it's not. The referee says the umpire says that's a bad thing. I'm not quite sure what's going on here. Let's go over to Centre Court and join RTE horse racing commentator Des Scal. Des! Thanks, Marty. And you join us with three and a half hours to go in this Wimbledon handicap hurdle.

5:28It's Novak Djokovic, the three and a half to one favourite, against Yannick Sinner, the Italian. Sinner. Djokovic. Sinner. Djokovic. Djokovic, Sinner Sinner coming up on the outside Here's Djokovic now Sinner and Djokovic And Djokovic Djokovic here Sinner Sinner, Djokovic Djokovic, Sinner Sinner makes it Sinner makes it Sinner Sinner takes that one And we're going to start all over again And do it again And I think that's the way it goes anyway Back to you I'd love to see RT trying to do Wimbledon An exclusive comedy every week On the Mario Rosenstock podcast Please contact me if you'd like mariorosenstock at gmail.com I take them all I read them all constructive criticism overt compliments I love them all tell me who your ideas for guests would be ideas for sketches ideas for new characters that I haven't done give us a blast mariorosenstock at gmail.com okay time to meet Niall Harbison an interview I genuinely enjoyed so much I really enjoyed Niall's warmth and honesty and his ability to answer a question really fully and then stop I really enjoyed that.

6:40And then it would lead very nicely onto the next question. As I mentioned earlier, before Niall moved to Thailand, he was a successful digital and social media entrepreneur. But before that, he was a very successful chef. Here we go. Yeah, I actually, I used to work in Dublin in a place called, you might remember, a guy called Conrad Gallagher. Oh my God, I did Peacock, Peacock. Yeah, on South William Street there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a mad place. That's where I started chefing and it was, Jesus, it was like a baptism of fire is the only way I could describe it. It was a mad place, but really exciting, yeah.

7:15I remember I went to that restaurant once and I remember, do you know who was there at the same time? Jerry Ryan was there that day and I think he was being wined and dined by a load of marketing executives. And I remember Jerry taking the piss and just ordering the most expensive red wine on the menu just to take the piss out of the fact that he was being brought out to lunch, you know, that kind of thing. So it was really, it was the epitome of Celtic Tiger, wasn't it? Oh, it was 100%. It was like pure Celtic Tiger. Like, yeah, I think Anglo bankers would have been on one table, Gerry Ryan on the other, Ronan Keaton on another.

7:45You know, it was real. It was actually kind of funny, you know, to see it. It was the height of, everybody was having a good time, I think. But we were all getting notions as well. We were so notion filled. Big time. I remember it was, I think it was the MTV Music Award or something, I remember was in Dublin. and that they were all the after sort of party was in there that night and it was yeah it was real high flying nobody was watching the pennies back then anyway so you were sort of a chef and you were working in sort of high end areas restaurants were you working on ships as well tell me a little bit about that yeah the thing about kitchens is it's if anybody's worked in the hospitality industry it's so hard and I worked in kitchens in Dublin for about seven six seven years and I just had to get out of it I was burnt out And I went to work as a private chef.

8:33So I worked for really rich people and you just have to cook for one or two people and you get to fly around the world with them. So it was a career change that was badly needed. So I got to travel. That ended up not being as glamorous as it sounds either, but it was a much better way to live life. Give me an example. What are you doing? You're talking about rich people. So you're not living with them, are you? you are yeah in some cases i i used to mostly be on their yachts which are down in the south of france or the caribbean but then sometimes you'd live for them like i worked for one businessman i just was in his house in the like uh staff quarters for want of a better word and they're like if you think how like these are like people who are worth 20 30 billion so you know having a chef is not is not a big luxury for them so that you know you travel around with them and the chef Funnily enough, along with maybe their personal assistant, the chef is pretty important because it's what they eat every day.

9:27So you're quite close to their decision making and stuff like that. I mean, only about food, but yeah, it was quite an interesting world to see. What was your experience of rubbing shoulders with very, very, very super rich people? I think the one thing would be that mostly they're okay. they're just normal you know they're normal enough as much as can be expected but it's the hangers-on that are the problem the sort of management and the you know their assistance and the then the guests who get notions you know like they'll invite on a bunch of guests movie stars whatever and they'll sort of take the piss for want of a better word out of the hospitality and the staff and stuff like that but yeah the rich people i mean i don't think people really understand the scale of wealth is the thing you know when you see you open up and you see jeff besos's wedding or whatever like you think you know wealth but you don't like they're just money is just no object no object like you know they'll they'll fly i remember in the caribbean and the guests would want they'd want mozzarella but uh they wouldn't want you know you couldn't just get it from miami or every they'd send the private jet and fly the mozzarella over directly from italy you know stuff like that is not out of the order i mean it's it's peanuts for them it really like when you're worth that much, it's just, it's just, I don't think people understand how much money they have.

10:52It's ridiculous. And like, presumably because you're in the hospitality end of it, you're sort of witness to like all the sort of partying and all that sort of stuff. Is partying kind of, apart from the fact that it's money and that there's a lot, a lot of, the pillows are more gold or the cushions are more gold. Is that it? I mean, do they all go, oh, Jesus, Tony, it's three o 'clock. I think I'll turn in. Or do rich people party in a different way as well? I think there's a good one from an Irish context the yachts would always be at the Cannes Film Festival which was like recently you know they'd go there every year and I remember one time clearly I worked for a guy called Paul Allen he's dead now I founded Microsoft and he yeah he had the biggest yacht even now we know his name yeah huge big yacht and he was a he was actually a sort of a good billionaire for want of a better word he kind of just had fun with it and he he would he was big into music and he would get like U2 recorded one of the parts of one of their albums on there.

11:50So afterwards he would have all the band up in his studio in the yacht. He'd be up there jamming with them. So I think there's a different level. Like he's into music. He just gets U2 in there and he starts jamming on the drums and, you know, playing along. So you can do whatever you want, basically, when you're that wealthy. So you were working for Paul Allen, yeah? And does that mean like, sorry, forgive my ignorance. Does that mean like something like Bill Gates would have come onto the boat or you would have seen Bill Gates or Steve, what is it, Steve Ballmer or those guys. Yeah, yeah. I actually cooked all of their 50th birthdays because they must have been around the same, you know, I don't know if they went to college or something together, but I remember the 50th birthdays all came in a row and it was Bill Gates' 50th, Steve Ballmer's 50th.

12:36And yeah, but like, I mean, I'm making it sound like I'm rubbing shoulders with them. I understand. You know, I'm not. I'm standing behind it. You're not actually making it sound like that at all. No, no, but you are a reasonably close witness. And Camille, can you confirm that Bill Gates isn't a lizard? Do you know what? I had one experience with him and I think it was those 50th birthdays. It was like I was at a sushi station up on the deck making fresh sushi. And I think we were in Tahiti. And I talked to him for about, I'd say, seven seconds. And he heard my accent. He was like, oh, you're from Ireland, are you?

13:08And I was like, yeah. Yeah, that was it. and then six months later we're on a different boat back in the med in the Mediterranean and he came on again talked to him for three seconds but he was like oh hi Irish and I just thought that was like wow like how is that guy who's meeting a thousand people a day remembered that so that was the only interaction I had with him but no he seemed normal I was kind of listening in on his conversation because I wasn't far away and he was talking about his kids going horse riding it was the most boring conversation you know nothing exciting at all. No, but it's fascinating just to hear fly on the wall stuff like this, especially from that kind of level of wealth.

13:46And did like movie stars or like pop stars and stuff come onto these yachts or whatever? Yeah, there was, on that one, there was everybody like, because it was Cannes and just the after party. So everybody would be there. I remember the one, I wasn't really starstruck, but the one that I was really starstruck at, at the time, if you remember Ali G, was, he was huge. It was like, I don't know, it was doing the movies or whatever and he came on yeah Sash and Barrett-Cohen came on and he was actually a big dour sort of guy he wasn't you know like the character at all but he came on and I was a bit starstruck because it was so big at the time no he's really serious sort of dude he's one of those comedians who's actually in his private life really like he doesn't you know really serious sort of side of it yeah like maybe even manic depressant or so you know the way a lot of comedians are I don't know if that's true But yeah, he was so dour and serious that I was like, Jesus, it really is, you're a great actor.

14:44And your exposure to this world, did it have any effect on you at all, Niall? Were you able to see sort of, that's them and this is me and I don't necessarily want to aspire to that? Or do I? I mean, did it change your views about something like, I mean, you're young, as we'll soon find out, you clearly were ambitious. did it change your view of people in that milieu at all and how maybe you may have seen your path do you know what it did and actually in a bad way at that stage at that stage in my life because I would have been 26 or 27 it did change me towards being like jeez I wouldn't mind a bit of this you know like I should have my own yacht was the thinking and I was like this would be great lifestyle and like now I'd be horrified by that but back then I was like yeah this is this is fantastic i mean money uh you know celebrities movie stars you're at monaco grand prix you're flying you know you do whatever you want so it really did open my eyes to um yeah the possibilities of i i remember thinking like god this has all been paid for by microsoft like little computer things you know like little software i was like you can make a lot of money for it so that sort of connected in my head a little bit yeah and then your world changed a little so you got out of the chefing game and between the jigs and the reels anyway you eventually became a sort of a social media entrepreneur isn't that right tell me about that yeah I got off the got off the boat first and it was a spectacular failure the first business we set up with my friend and we raised money I had savings from the boats and we started a business and we went a belly up within about two three years it was called iFoods it was like the idea was sounded it good, like all business ideas, it was like we're going to make videos how to teach you how to cook.

16:35And this is 2008. You know, like barely. You were well ahead of Instagram. Yeah, we were too far. I know this is a silly excuse. We were too far ahead. Like the internet, the broadband wouldn't work. The, you know, the phones weren't good enough. So we were, we made all these videos and then nobody watched them. Your idea was too good. That's right. Your idea was too good. No, no. I mean, and that's not to be, that's not, you're not even, that's not even to compliment you too much. Some people's ideas don't come at the right time. that's exactly it my next one did come at the right time because i saw that and that was a disaster but then i saw all everybody using social media and nobody was using it you know in ireland there was a few people on twitter you probably remember back you know the early days there was you know a bit of twitter and a bit of you had a facebook page or a b but whatever it was you had but i was really in that world and i could see that nobody had a clue but i could just from the previous thing I could see that it was coming so my next one I was very lucky with the timing that was a social media agency so we just we're like a marketing agency but we just helped the likes of the big banks and you know Bank of Ireland and Vodafone and you know all those people we just all we did was set up Facebook pages for them do little campaigns do little but they didn't know what you know a Facebook was back then you know so we were nicely played It's very similar now.

17:53I mean, it's very similar like Patrick, the producer of this show. I mean, he does podcasts for big, you know, companies, you know, and they're very similar. Like they want to know, hey, how do we get in on this podcasting thing? Do you just press a button and speak or what? You know, and then he takes them through the whole. And you sort of think like, you know, you would think, oh, podcast, easy enough, just, you know, set it up. But when you're a big brand like that, like they're paying you for yourself or Patrick's expertise, like, you know, it's what's easy to you is not easy for them as a big brand.

18:27So that's where we fit in back then. And what was that business called? uh simply zesty so we were um based in dublin and we grew very quickly and we were bought by utv they were at the time uh and that was yeah it was all media and i sort of then once we got bought it was all i mean you work in the media world all the suits sort of arrived you know i was fun and having you know doing creative stuff and all the sort of media suits arrived and i was like jesus out of here three or four months later i was like i didn't even i don't think i lasted four months after they arrived I was just like this is way too corporate for me yeah yeah so the success of Simply Zesty then um that gave you some money then presumably and were you enjoying the money were you were your was your mind kind of going back to the the guys on the boat going oh I'm on my way here maybe you know get a nice car get a nice house yeah I did that it was stupid with it like I so um I think it got we sold it for like a million and a half which sounds like so much money but like i only owned i think 30 of the company then you have to pay taxes then you have to um uh what else you give your mom and your dad you know a holiday and you do load us i went the first day i got the money i went and bought a car in dublin and uh stupid not stupid stuff but it's just i wasted it i didn't i didn't know what i was doing so um yeah i burned through that pretty quickly because i was also drinking and you know being not responsible so so you were fast living you were drinking hard partying hard working hard yeah exactly that yeah exactly and it was yeah it's easy it's yeah it was just I didn't enjoy it no looking back on it you know I didn't you should because a lot of it if you set up a business and then you sell it like it's something you've been building for a few years or you know you've put your heart and soul into it and then suddenly you sell it it's not yours so there's like a sort of a grief period which sounds really weird but you don't have your baby anymore your your thing that you were so focused on some other guys in suits own it so it was uh yeah it was not what i you know what like when you dream of stuff it wasn't what i thought it was how it was uh cracked up to be if that makes sense no it's interesting that you can make that analogy that it's like um it's like a little death in the family and then in a way there's a grieving period afterwards um interesting but You didn't stop there.

20:51You went into another business and this was Love in Dublin, wasn't it? Yeah, I just started that as a blog, Love in Dublin, just myself. I was bored sitting at home and I just started writing some restaurant reviews. And it just grew. Yeah, it was like a city guide, sometimes controversial. I kind of wrote the reviews from my heart. because I got into my head somehow that I had to be just honest with the reviews which was fine for restaurants but then I started writing about other stuff and that wasn't opinion pieces I just yeah and I was trying to be like clever or cutting edge and I just I think in media you have to really if you own a successful business you have to sort of be a lot more disciplined and stuff like that and I was a bit I might even have been drunk writing some of the stuff like genuinely finally.

21:39So it wasn't, it was successful, but it wasn't, yeah, no, it was successful, but it was, I just, I didn't love it either, I guess that's what I'm saying. But at the time it was successful. Yeah. And so you got out of that as well. Yeah. I did. Yeah. Yeah. I, there was some investors and then I sold my share to them and yeah, I left in about 2017, I think. Wow. Okay. And then, so let's just summarise it all. You've had a period of high intensity chefing, which perhaps could lead to burnout as well. You've had partying hard, working hard in an emerging social media scene in Dublin in which you did very well and bought your parents a holiday and got a car and, you know, blah, blah, blah, sad grieving.

22:25And then another business starting up and did well out of that as well. And then you decide you want out of this. you're feeling a bit burnt out yeah well i was always an alcoholic functioning alcoholic very bad alcoholic had depression had suffered from anxiety all those three things i was sort of self-medicating through depression and anxiety even when i was working you know i'd be going into client pitches and stuff like that like absolutely dying maybe having a valium before the pitch to calmed myself down. I was always like functioning alcoholic. So that went on for a good 20 years, really.

23:05Like I'd have dry spots where I'd be sober for three months or six months or whatever, but it was really quite a bad, like, you know, two, three bottles of wine a day type alcohol. I remember like, that's why I don't spend much time in Dublin anymore because I just find it too tempting to walk past the pub and just duck in the door for a nice pint of gas. You know, I just remember all those places in Dublin that I could duck into. Like, I remember vividly, like, you know, where your guys' office is there on the, I don't know if you're there anymore, in the Diggs, or that little lane. That's right, Marconi House, Diggs Lane.

23:38Yeah, yeah. Is it more, yeah. I remember going to meetings around those streets and I'd sort of duck into the Harry Lemon for, you know, a gin and tonic to calm myself on the way to Peter's Top. Yeah, the Drury buildings. I've been in all those places for, or I'd take my laptop and pretend I'm working for the afternoon and just have a few pints around there so yeah very very functional alcoholic but very miserable at the same time. And did you know at the time you were a functional alcoholic Niall or is it only in retrospect in retrospect that you can look back and say you were a functional alcoholic?

24:09No I definitely knew like I'd done therapy and found myself in very dark places sometimes um binges and um like mental really mentally tough situations so no i definitely knew but i'd sort of i just when you're an alcoholic like that i'd sort of come back and make new you feel great after three months so then i'd make a rule like oh i'm only gonna drink shandies or i'll only go out on friday nights or you know whatever you have a million rules and then it would all fall apart again from there. So I was very up and down or I'd always give up booze at Christmas after that. And then, you know, you'd get through January.

24:49You get, I always remember in Ireland, I'd get through and then the Six Nations starts, you know, around like February, early February. And then I'd get through the first weekend and then by the second weekend, you know, like everybody's going to the pub. There's a huge Ireland match on and I'd just find it impossible. I'd just crack, you know, I'd be like, so there'd always be, I just found Ireland especially a really hard place. That's why I moved to Thailand. It is. You know, dark, cold in the winter, not so much to do maybe culturally and stuff like that. Sometimes if, you know, a lot of the cultures, it's hopefully changing, but a lot of the culture was, you know, booze, you know, pubs.

25:27It is changing big time, Niall. Is it? Yeah. It is, yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. Even statistics now about alcohol consumption is like 30 % down on, 33 % down, and a third down on maybe 20 years ago, 25 years ago. Yeah, no, that's, I mean, when we were growing up, the only thing was, you know, the pub. Where would you go on a Friday night? Like, you're not going to go to a Pilates class or, you know, like you'd go to the pub and that was it. And if you didn't go to the pub... Unless you could drink during Pilates, which would be interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could have gin and tonic Pilates.

25:59That's a good business, yeah. Pints and Pilates. And then you'd be caught... It's much better, yeah. Great name for business. Don't give me... I don't want to give you any ideas now. you're very good at these ideas. No, I'm out of business, definitely. But somebody should take that and run with it, points and pilates. Like a dating, you know, dating site. I'm interested in a little bit of a, if you don't mind indulging me slightly, just for a moment, the slightly more maudlin side of this, when you said binges, what kind of form did the binges take in terms of were they solo efforts or would you go out into town and see who you'd meet or would you stay in your flat and go, I'm just going to drink myself into oblivion or both?

26:43Yeah, so for alcoholics, probably people have a sense that it might be glamorous, that you're out at a party every night and you're maybe doing cocaine or, you know, dance parties or stuff like that. It's not like that. I would start, let's say like I was on a dry patch and there might be like an award ceremony on a Thursday night or there might be, you know, an event or something. it's happened so I'd start off and it would be very social and very fun and would stay out and then I'd have a bit of a hangover Friday and then I'd have a few pints with the the work crew or whoever but you know I would be the only person then for the third day drinking and by the third day I'm sort of I'm scared of the world don't want to go outside so I'll just get 12 cans of Guinness and I'll watch you know two United games and uh or two football games and a rugby match and I'll just drink at home but then by the sunday you're you're waking up at 11 and you've got the shakes and you're like i sure i'll just get straight on the wine because that'll stop the shakes and you know by the end of it you're absolutely drinking on your own miserable um don't want to go outside you'd go to the spa the first time and get a big bag of booze and then you're back there at six o 'clock you know embarrassed that you're seeing the same person again and you're buying another two bottles of wine.

28:00So it's not, it might, the first night might be glamorous but by the end of it it's really lonely, miserable, sad, depressing. I think a lot of Irish people can relate to some of what you're saying, you know, the idea of having a desperate, desperate hangover and then having a few drinks to take the edge off and then that feeling the day after you take the edge off of you're a bit flat which is, it's that flatness, you're kind of, your fingers are numb, your hands are numb, your hair is a bit, your hair is dry and wiry, and you're sort of a bit flat, and you're unresponsive in conversations. And you're anxious.

28:37Oh, very anxious, the fear of Christ. Yeah. And, you know, but I suppose, whereas a lot of people might go, I feel like that on a Saturday after the Friday, and I level out on Saturday, and then I recover on Sunday, you maybe took it into the third and fourth days. Yeah, see, my problem was always that I knew that no matter how bad you felt like you just described, I knew that two margaritas in a Mexican restaurant and you're back flying or, you know, six cans of Guinness watching a bit of Formula One, whatever, you're back. I just, in my head, I was like, why would I suffer through that when I can just get, you know, I'll definitely be suffering for the first, yeah, first hour is not going to be good, but it's never failed once to get you back on high, you know, so.

29:22And what kind of a drunk were you, Niall? Were you a talkative drunk, happy drunk, angry drunk? I would say maybe talkative, yeah, yeah. You probably thought I was hilarious in my own mind, you know, as we all do. But no, I'd say like maybe a lonely drunk as well. Like I said, the first, I just like to just get blackout drunk. Because when you have businesses, you have a lot of people asking you questions all day, a lot of decisions to make, a lot of, and I've got stuff from my childhood as well with my mom and different things so just I really like more of a it's not it's very hard to explain being an alcoholic it's not enjoyable you know like you're doing it just to escape your own head you're not doing it to get tipsy or to make friends or to be funny or yeah exactly you're doing it and then you've got that four or five hours I just used to love being drunk because I wouldn't even think about anything.

30:17I'd be watching YouTube videos of concerts and stuff. I could just forget you know, about life and just escape it. Yeah. And an interesting word you used there, escape it, because you found another way of escaping it, I suppose. You said listen, fuck this for a game of soldiers. I'm going to change things around here. I'm going to go to Thailand. Yeah. I remember I was in, yeah, I was in, the weather used to get me, you know, in November, December in Ireland, England, and it's dark at four o 'clock when you're coming out of the office and i was just like i used to go to thailand i found it in about 2014 for three weeks in december to just the sunshine really break the winter up and it's it's got a stereotype thailand you know partying and all that stuff the place where i came and where i live now is actually like health uh yoga places gyms beach uh smoothies is it's sort of a health area so i i said right i'm i keep failing here getting sober so i'm gonna go and try and do it in thailand um and i just took that i was lucky i had a bit of savings and i could do that you know i was um i didn't have to work for a couple years so i just i just so frustrated about being constantly on this on this on this on this treadmill yeah treadmill and also then hamster wheel and also which i think a lot of people feel that you know not just me but um I just wanted something different.

31:41And then the alcoholism and the depression and everything. I said, I'll just clean break. Let's start a new life was my thinking. Did it work? No, it got worse. It was like, I gave the toilet and it worked for a certain amount of time. But then there was a terrible combination of things. It was like, I came with a girlfriend at the time, Sarah. So we broke up, just a normal breakup. But, you know, breakups never nice. Then it was COVID. So it was like a free pass to drink. You know, everybody in COVID was having drinks at two o 'clock and whatever, you know. In a sense, everybody in the world was an alcoholic or a functioning alcoholic.

32:19Yeah. So I could really double down then because there was nobody to tell you to stop. So there was that. And then I love the way the mind rationalizes this sort of stuff. A hundred percent. Yeah. You're just like, Jesus, brilliant. Free, you know, free. We're all in it. We're all alcoholics now, like you said. So, yeah, no, I just went completely off the rails and that's when I ended up in hospital. because also there was nobody to stop me then. I'm so far away from home and there's no response. I could go for a beer at half seven in the morning. There was no stigma or whatever. Yeah, and there was no Irish person at Spar giving you a funny look.

32:55You wouldn't get away with that. Exactly. I couldn't get away with that in Dublin or you'd be scared somebody'd see you or you could get away with it at home maybe but here I could just get on the bike and go and have a beer. You're very comfortable talking about it, Niall. yeah I mean I try and do it because I think it helps other people um and I also don't have a boss or a you know somebody to answer to there's a lot of people like you walk around any office in Ireland or wherever there's at least you know the amount of people suffering from depression and anxiety silently alcoholism god knows what else grief losing children drug abuse you know everything there's people are great at putting up these big um big facades you know we're all great at it so i i just talk about it because i know there's people who listen who are like jesus yeah i'm like that's that's you know if he's saying it's that's that might you know i just think it might help somebody so that's why i don't mind talking about it it's nice do you you describe um you this this this the way it got worse and worse and you hit rock bottom um in in thailand but you also described that as being a revelatory moment and a moment of release and a moment of happiness 100 % not at the time because it was horrific physically really really like I think I had a mental breakdown to be honest like they didn't actually you know give me a piece of paper or anything saying that but I was in the hospital when at the time I finished I was on about four volumes a day which is like a lot uh yeah like the 10 milligrams if anybody knows that's a lot and then two bottles of wine at least a day and then about six beers and uh a bottle of whiskey and people would be listening they'd be listening to that saying like you're not a big guy like that's impossible he's exaggerating that you know like not at all because you'd i'd wake up at seven and I'd need a bottle of wine to calm down.