Sophie Morris- the woman taking on the food industry

27:21And then you look at the back and you're like, where is this coming from? You know? So that's huge. And is it written in small writing where it's coming from? Often, it's hard to find. And that's why I say it is very frustrating. That's the main thread of my message really is to make good decisions in the supermarket, we have to be able to decipher what is this product actually. And the only way to do that is to look at the back. Look at the back and read the information. But we don't have time. Exactly. And the writing's too small. And that's why I think a lot of people like my content. The kids are in the shopping basket going, they're grabbing at stuff and you're going, put down that dirty yolk, yeah.

27:55I know. Right, I don't like that in the supermarket. But you know what I mean? You're not there going, Polly's starting. Totally. And that's such a good point. And I think people are like, is she just constantly, I mean, it's my job so I'm going around the supermarket a lot looking at a thing. So people are using you as a shortcut to common sense. They definitely are loving that I'm kind of doing a lot of the work for them, for sure. But then another part of it is like, once you are more aware, like people were not shopping aware before. They 100 % weren't. Now, people are so much more savvy to the tactics that go on in the supermarket.

28:27And so once you've kind of done your food shop, you buy similar stuff. Once you've done it the first few times, you know your shop. True. Do you know what I mean? So you're not doing it every time. So that's really it. And I hear that from people all the time. Now they don't need to be looking at the back. You don't. You absolutely don't. At QVC, fall shopping is more than just checking out. It's discovering the brands you love across beauty, fashion, home and culinary, all in one place. Whether you're getting ready for crisp mornings, cozy nights or everyday moments, QVC has what you need for the season ahead.

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29:50So is Ireland dominant? Ireland, the stuff that's written on the back of food in Ireland, is that dictated a lot by European regulations? or are there specific Irish regulations? Yes. So we're under a European umbrella. Yes. But who's overseeing it? This is the big kind of question. Yes. Well, talk to me about that then. Who's overseeing the European umbrella? Who's overseeing your labelling? Like when you see, when like new, I mean, thousands and thousands of products, even like, as I said, as a small food business, like we developed our label. We knew what the regulations were, but no one checked what we actually printed on our...

30:29Do they not? No. But where does Europe come into it then? Well, there's regulations that you have to stand by. But I'm saying, who's overseeing it? Who's actually monitoring every single packaging? Think about it. That's being developed and entering the food system. Are you saying that food is on... Well, I suppose you are. Who's testing that product to say, well, is that nutritional information actually correct? Is there not? Are they showing... No. You know? Okay. So it's like... That's dodgy. I mean, the thing is, exactly. It's not being overseen. And that's a huge problem. I thought you did have to go through stringent tests.

31:05The big, massive companies would never, you know, I always say like you can trust what's written on the back there, you know, with the huge companies because they would be in so, you know, they'd be so liable if anything, you know, if they weren't being accurate with their information. But there's still a huge problem that there's not really much overseeing of that back of pack labeling. You know, there's constant issues with it. So, yeah, so that's a huge issue. And like I've called out, I've called out some really misleading, you know, and then there's the element of what they're allowed to say on the front.

31:39And that's really what I kind of focus on mostly. So, you know, the claims on the front is what I'm talking about. So, like I did one, this was like one of the really like seriously misleading ones. It's like this herb puree and it says the real thing without chopping. Like that's their whole tagline on the front in big letters. The real thing without chopping, this herb puree. And you look at the back and it's 50 % herb and the rest, a load of artificial additives, including sugar. And they say the real thing without chopping. Like that, how is that allowed into our juices? Because they would claim that 50 % that is there is the real thing.

32:23But it's not the real thing. No, exactly. That's why I'm saying they're bending the language. Exactly, exactly. It's a distortion of language. It's a distortion of language. It's absolutely misleading consumers. I mean, people were shocked. People, when I did that video, they were like, I've been buying that. I just thought it was a shortcut for me not having to buy the fresh herbs. I'm thinking, no, like it's not. That's not the real thing. Oh, it's misleading. Well, you could argue that that's misleading advertising. Well, exactly. So then I reported that to the FSAI. I got everyone in, everyone in my, you know, I said, you know, if you're not happy with this, you know, here's the link also to report it to the FSAI.

32:55Then the FSAI got in touch with me to say, can you please take that down? Because you're actually just backlog, you know, it's such a, we're getting such an influx of complaints about this. You know, it's impossible for us to get back to everyone firstly and it's just making it more work for us. And I said, fine, I'll take it down. But that's good. And they said, you know, if you want to make a complaint, you know, we'll get back to you and make your complaints just you. So I said, fine, I am making the complaint and have I heard anything back? No. It's still sitting on the shelves? Yes. Okay.

33:24Brilliant. Massive business and of course this is a multi-billion pound euro dollar operation that you're involved in as in you know As in what I'm talking about As in what you're talking about No, no multi-billions of and I was trying to talk about the European regulations there but in a sense the food that we eat here is on a different often on a different level to the food that they consume in the United States. Oh, yeah. So, for example, just for a plebeian like me, even I would know that they say, like, for example, that the bread that they have in the United States, the same brand of bread, tastes different in Europe than it tastes in America.

34:03Yeah, yeah. There are several, they say the burgers taste different. Oh, the brands, like you have the same brand, but it's a completely different formulation. Exactly. So, Fanta is a different colour. Oh, yeah. They'll make different formulations based on that market. Yeah. So for example, things they would never get away with here, for instance, but they could get away with there. That's right. They'll do it. Again, it's all about profit maximization. But I suppose, what I'm trying to say is, relatively speaking, we aren't in a bad position. No, we're so much better. If there was a, if the Arizona version of Sophie Morris is going around.

34:36Yeah, I know. And she's going, Hey everybody. Can you imagine you in an American supermarket? It would be a disaster. Okay, I'm up to 6 billion followers on my Insta. Everything I touch is shit. I don't think I'd cope in the American supermarkets. No, I know. We are very lucky. But that's why I think, you know, it's important for us to not lose. Like, Ireland has such a great food culture and we have the ability to produce amazing food. But the problem is, you know, I mean, I'm sure you've seen this lately in the news. It's been very topical. Like, how our veg growers are, you know, the industry is in collapse.

35:13You know, we import over 80 % of our fruit and veg into this country. In fact, we import around 80 % of all the calories we consume. Can you believe that? And yet 90 % of our produce is exported. That's beef and dairy. So you're thinking, it just, it feels like it's completely broken. Like, why aren't we focusing on feeding ourselves as a nation? Yeah. And also, we couldn't feed ourselves if we came down to it. No, but we could do a lot better. Oh no, I'm saying what you're saying is aimed towards that. Exactly. But I'm saying Ireland isn't food sustainable. We're not food... We've now, real food security is now a real issue and you can see the stuff that's happening around the world and like this summer with the climate crisis.

35:56Like I was actually in wildfires in France this summer. It was so terrifying being in that and you think, it felt really, wow. Where were you and what? I was in Biscaross in France and we were evacuated in the middle of the night from our accommodation because the fire, like we literally had to drive out at 3am Did you? Leave all our stuff The kids were like terrified Was this on a break? Were you on a holiday? We were on holiday Yeah, in the summer and we were literally in the car in Stancil traffic because the whole area is being evacuated and you're literally seeing the forest in flames as you're in traffic right beside you I mean it was it was so surreal it felt like you were in one of those apocalypse movies I mean that's anyway I've gone on a tangent but essentially like it really brought it close to home like the you know the situation we're in with climate.

36:43And, you know, I also did, I've done a documentary with RTE this year. It's out in October. What's called? How to Shop Well Now. But it's not, it's very much looking at our supermarkets and how that's all set up. But it's also very much talking about, like, our food system as a whole and the amount of food we import. So that's a big theme of it. And I went around and I interviewed a lot of farmers and veg growers to talk about the situation and particularly the growers and how desperate it is for them. and, you know, the climate. Tell me about that. So tell me about that. There are people in Ireland growing all sorts of crops and vegetable and everything and they're in terrible trouble.

37:20Well, we've lost so many. I think in the 90s, because the supermarkets became extremely difficult to deal with is one of the reasons. Why? They started discounting fruit and veg. I mean, do you remember that? Like it's, well, I can't remember what year it was now, but it was like this kind of new campaign where they all started discounting the veg. It was a way to get customers into store. It was like 40 cent carrots. You know, I think it started at Christmas one year and it was like, come in for your Christmas veg, like massive buy of carrots for 40 cents. Like something, you know, an amount of money that just doesn't make sense that that's viable.

37:52And why were they doing that? To bring, they're doing it as a loss leader to bring, to try and get the competition, to bring. Bring them in so they'll buy the other stuff. Yeah, when you go into the fruit and veg section, when you go into supermarkets, the first section is the fruit and veg. So you're saying that they're drawing. So you're saying in a sense that tactic uses the veg growers as a sacrificial lamb. Totally. Jesus. Totally. Yeah, undercutting them completely. Completely. And they're, you know, so they're not getting fair price for their produce and it's very hard for them to stay viable.

38:22So we've lost like over 600 commercial veg growers we had I think in the 90s to around 60 now. So that's a very small number in the whole country and that's why What's that number again from? Over 600 to around 60. Oh God. So now, So that's why we import. We have to import 80%. Is there a possibility? Would it be viable to suggest that legislation stopping people from doing that would be? The government need to step in. And that was really the kind of core. I mean, we need buy-in from the retailers need to do more, I think. And just last week, they announced this retail grower charter where they kind of all come together and committed to have fair engagement to help the sustainability of the sector.

39:05That's all great. but like really I feel like for meaningful change the government need to step in. Yeah, okay. They need to like they need to give like a basic they need to make it viable for these growers to continue. But there you see for government there's no money in it. You know the money is in beef and dairy because that's the exports. So that's the problem. But they need to look take a long term approach now because of food security being such an issue with climate. I mean if all those countries where we get most of our veg like Spain and the Netherlands you know if the climate thing continues, you know, and it affects so much of the land, they're going to be most, they're going to prioritise their own countries for feeding their own countries.

39:44So, you know, imagine if something happened and then that supply chain was affected and then suddenly we can't actually get produce from there anymore. Now we don't have enough veg growers to actually produce it for ourselves. Agreed. And if you're taking a long-term view of it, sorry, again, I've premised this by saying I'm a complete neophyte about this, but I suppose you could argue that the kind of inland continentality effect of the climate on Europe, which we can obviously see. Yeah. And you see it like in the continental Asia, in Pakistan and India, where the temperatures are getting so high now that they're becoming unsustainable for humans to live.

40:21Totally. Like somewhere around 48, 47 degrees Celsius in the shade, humans can't survive. No. So they can't even live. Yeah. So you have to move then out of that, right? so then 45 degrees I was in Rome there a couple of years ago now it was in August but it was Rome 45 degrees Celsius so that's unsustainable then the food won't grow exactly but on the flip side for the short term anyway a climate like Ireland exactly will be viable we have an advantage with our moderate climate so that's the whole point it's like we should be really taking a long term view of this and supporting this sector so we can feed ourselves you know So that programme is out in October.

41:03Yeah. Okay. Very excited. Very good. Yeah. No, really good. Change the topic slightly. I mean, anybody who's anybody within these supermarkets now knows who you are. Yeah. They do. I mean, I would if I was in any form of marketing. I'd know your one, Sophie Morris. Yeah. I'd probably have a nightmare if you came into my supermarket. I wouldn't like it. Well, they have. Lads, CCTV. The blonde. there's a load of blondes the one with the one pointing at things she's here again lads send send Tony down onto the floor with the mop tell him there's a mess on oil 2 we don't want her going into oil 2 right right so like you must have there must be some come on come on tell me the thing is so I have heard obviously indirectly a lot of stuff from the top guys that they definitely have a love hate relationship with me because I do my clever swaps.

42:02So for instance, like I come up a lot in buyer meetings. And again, some of these small food producers that I've really helped, you know, give visibility to these products when I've recommended their products, like they tell me when they're, it's talked about in their buyer meetings about like how much when I recommend a product, how much the sales go through the roof. So they love that, the supermarkets, you know what I mean? So they don't know what I'm going to say next. So I think that definitely puts them on edge. But I mean, I've really driven sales to a lot of their stores, like massively, when I recommend a product.

42:34Yeah. I mean, yeah, one of them said like, they've never seen anything like it. The immediate uptake on a product when I've talked about it. Wouldn't it be great if you were amoral? In another world, there was an amoral Sophie Morris that went, how are you lads? Nice supermarket you got there. And that's a nice swap with the Greek yogurt. It would be a pity if somebody said there was sweeteners in it, wouldn't it? Now, speaking of sweeteners, you do know my address, don't you? Would you like to send a few sweeteners my way? Have you been offered any bribes? No, I've never been offered bribes, but they've all wanted to work with me.

43:13You know, a lot of the food brands, obviously. Is that what they call it? From the start. They all wanted me to do, you know, food paid collabs, whatever. But I took a very conscious decision. What's a paid collab? I know what a paid collab is, but how does it work? Well, they do an ad, and you'd have to be very, you know, it's very... So you do an ad for, this is a clever swap. I would do. yeah I mean they wanted me to do ads yeah where I would recommend their brand or their product you know but look I've been offered like to do paid work with brands I've already recommended like ones I already love but I've made a conscious decision really early on and I'm so glad I did to not do any paid work with any food companies Oh yeah I did that Who do you do it with then?

43:52I don't do any paid ads. Oh do you not? I've done one or two Oh do you not? No no no I don't do any and I did that on purpose and I think that's a big reason why my page is I respect that but that's what a lot of people do because I wanted to remain completely independent fair enough so that when I'm going in one week because you wouldn't have been imagine if I was talking about something one week and then the next week I'm doing an ad for that brand I know like people wouldn't know you know so I made a really kind and like I've turned down a lot of money I've turned down a lot of money I know but I'm a whore who needs a guest on his podcast so if you said you did that I'd probably go well fair play to you anyway next week Rory O 'Hanlon will be yeah But you don't do that.

44:28I don't do that. Now, I've done the odd-odd with things like the European Commission to raise awareness on the EU label. Things like that, but no food brands. Yes. Have I ever done one? You would be able to make a million quid in any given year if you wanted to. This is the thing. Don't even tell me that. Oh, my God. What am I missing out on? Lots and lots of money. Yeah, but the thing is... You would be losing credibility. I would lose so much credibility. And also I would lose the impact I'm having. And like, that's really what drives me. Ultimately, I, you know, call me naive, big dreamer, whatever.

45:05But I really feel like I can make an impact in our super, in the food industry in Ireland. Ireland is a small place. Like, as I said there, you know, the impact I've had in terms of small food producers, which potentially were about to go out of business, have gotten all these listings. Do you have good food producers, which deserve a place in our supermarkets. they're there now and they're taking the space off big multinationals they don't really give a crap they're all about profits and so I feel I can make an impact in that way and so I'm taking a long term approach of it and that's kind of that's the approach I've taken yeah and that's why I didn't want to do any paid ads alright fair play yeah but that's why I've done books you know exactly so you could yeah exactly right and did you have to did you in a sense you were in the cookie dough business yes And that went well.

45:54Well, it went well from like, from the outside it looked like it went well. We had loads of press, we had loads of media, we were on Dragon's Den, da-da-da-da-da. And Dragon's Den, you brought, so this was early cookie dough, was it? Yeah, yeah. And you brought to Dragon's Den, this was the Gavin and... Gavin, yeah. And was your man the presidential... He offered us money and we turned him down and it was this big, whoo. What did he offer you? 70 grand. Like the thing with Irish Dragon's Den is you're actually told to like, not, you know, there was a certain amount we were allowed to ask for. so we kind of thought that was a bit of a joke What?

46:24So like we weren't allowed to ask for as much as we there was a certain cap Why? Because I don't think they have it I don't know They're not dragons they're pussycats This is back in the day Pussycats then Like it wasn't like the UK dragons then Would you give us 500? I don't have it Exactly I'm only a useless dragon I'm only I don't have any fire I'm an Irish dragon Yeah So we had huge ambitions so I was like the amount of you know equity they wanted to get for 70 grand Yeah So Gavin was looking for half the company or all the company. Yeah. So we kind of strategically said we really want to get the offer because we want to appear on the show.

46:59You know, a lot of people don't even get airtime. No. So we wanted the publicity. So we were like, we need to get the offer, but then, you know, we're probably going to turn it down, which we did. So that kind of created a bit of a hoo-ha because no one had really done that before. And then we were on like the Brendan O 'Connor show because of that. This was years ago, years and years ago. So that gave us a load of publicity. And then you see Tesco were clever. And they saw that we were getting all this PR. And they were like, we'll give them a big deal. And this will be a good news story that we've supported them.

47:27So they gave us this huge deal for the UK. But it was an absolute disaster. Why? Because they gave us this deal. And it was all for the press. And it was all over the papers. And then they turned around and said, actually, we want it to be an own label product. So a supermarket label. So you know what that means? So they didn't want to actually take our brand. So they've done all this PR that we were going to be, you know, we're taking on this small Irish business. So it's going to become Tesco dough. Exactly. So then we felt we had to do it because they offered us huge volumes. This is in the UK, Tesco, UK.

47:53Much different kettle of fish to Ireland. All right. So we took the, then we were like, we're so in so far that we said, okay, we'll do it. The volume was huge, but it was the most horrific experience. I hate to pretty much put us out of business because they, you know, once you're in that situation doing an own brand product, they're suddenly like, right, well, we want to do an intro offer, half price. You fund that. Like when you see deals in the supermarket on end deals they're all the big brands you never see a nice small Irish brand doing those because you can't afford it you have to you have to fund that half off deal the supplier funds that the supermarket doesn't take the hit so then they were suddenly like oh yeah so we're going to do this intro offer it'll be a big volume now we had to fund it so we were literally at one point we were losing money per unit on the product I mean it was the most stressful time of my life so you sold an enormous amount of cookie dough to Tesco and were losing money.

48:47Yeah. And they knew we were tiny. And that, you know, so this is what I'm saying. The ethics that go, I mean, it's just, it's so demoralized. So at that point, I just wanted to out. So we did get out, thank God. And we sold the brand off. Is it a shit world, is it? Oh, it's a shit world. For being a small supplier to a supermarket. It's shit. They just trample all over you. You would literally have PTSD from it. And they just, they murder you. They murder you. Like it's hell. That's what I'm talking about. This is why I feel such, I feel like such, I can be such a champion for small businesses what it's like.

49:17And these are the companies that actually really care about making good products. That's what's so disheartening about it. And now, yeah, we're in a situation where our supermarket is flooded with all these huge multinational brands. And yet, you know, you're supposed to, you're treated the same as those guys and it's not possible. And at any, I would presume that at any, given the chance you tried to support the Irish markets. Yes. You tried to support the Irish suppliers. Oh yeah, exactly. Yes. Albeit, with the proviso the caveat that we already made that there are some Irish suppliers who aren't fully Irish and look they tend to be the massive Irish brands you know what I mean the small guys that are like you know there's amazing companies out there that are just you know completely have so much integrity Have you seen examples of Sophie going around the supermarket promoting an Irish small brand that has gained a lot in sales?

50:10What do you mean now? Have you supported Oh yes exactly And have you seen them shoot up in sales? That's exactly it. Do they then ring you afterwards and go, thanks so much? Oh my God, they're like, this has transformed our business. That's happened multiple times. We've gotten, I've done a video and they get calls from a big retailer saying we want to list you. And they've gotten listings. What does that mean? Like they get a new supermarket on board. Oh God. You know what I mean? Like they've gotten a new listing, a new big, it's huge for them. So if I had a product Mario, Mario cookie dough, right, and you looked at it in the supermarket, right, and you went around and you went, I have to say Mario cookie dough is an original cookie dough it's made in South County Dublin Yeah and it's like he has no artificial sweeteners and he makes it on his own God love him in his bedroom and I think it's delicious It would fly off the shelves Right, fly off the shelves but then if it did fly off the shelves I would be in tears at home and I'd be ringing you and going Sophie is there any way I can send you a cheque for five grand and you would refuse that wouldn't you?

51:09Oh yeah I have you know and I have had a few You've refused money because I'd be so ecstatic I have a few small Irish brands that are like, we really want to repay you because you've done so much. You have to refuse that. I say no. Yeah, yeah. I say, no, look, like this is I want to say, can we send it? Can we send you at least three batches of cookie dough? Would you take it? They send me free product. And you're OK with that? Yeah, of course. And then I promote it again on my page because I love eating their food, you know. But like, no, I've always turned down any money from them because that's not what that's not what I'm doing, you know.

51:41And again, as I said, so important to me that I maintain that independence and that credibility. And the other thing, actually, just this is interesting about you, is the tell me about the government funded health, the foods program, the lunch program. You have strong views on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, God, that's a huge topic on its own. It was just very it's been very rushed. You know, it felt like it was a very tick the box, you know, thing for the government to say we're now feeding every child in the country in school. but you know the whole model it's it's so flawed because it's just been put out to tender but by private companies you know like a government funded school meal program shouldn't be shouldn't be operated by private profit driven independent businesses which is what it is like it makes no sense so as a result you've got all these you know private companies entering the they see that they get you know they've there's this huge budget you know it's like 320 per meal but like the amount every day per per child you know so all these companies are coming in they're like how can we make this meal as cheaply as possible to maximize our profits because that's you know that's a it's a profit driven model and so we have these kind of cheap ultra processed foods flooding now our school meal program instead of you know it could be done so much better like in other countries you know and um there's an amazing woman ruth hegarty who i've kind of been like she's mostly heading up this but we kind of i kind of joined her like committee essentially which was trying to look at could we approach the government with an alternative model to show that it could be done better where we're actually you know connecting with local farmers using local produce that would help them and then you know show kids you know where our food comes from like you know bring food education into it and then have like community hubs where meals are actually cooked from scratch none of the meals are cooked from scratch so they're basically kind of uh ingredients like pre-assembled pre-cooked ingredients so as a result a lot of ultra-processed food and then it's like heated up it's cooked it could be it could be assembled one end of the country and then traveled the entire like length of the country you know there's no rather than why don't we take we'll have a community hub where we hire local people you know support the local economy team up with local farmers cook from scratch and let's supply the local schools in that area boom that's one hub there you know like it could be done in such a a better way that actually teaches our kids as well you know about food and how our food is grown and connect with the farmers and it's just it's food is so much more than just let's just get fed like you know let's teach our kids instead they get this kind of takeaway experience like the food comes in and he's like met like you know the foily like takeaway type thing and this is another issue separate but they're only given 10 minutes to eat their meal can you imagine poor kid like my my kids just started junior infants he's five he's a slow eater and he's expected to eat a meal in 10 minutes then it's like whipped away it's all this like you know so they're encouraged to then speed eat which is not good for your digestion um it's a lot of it is ultra processed food as i said and yeah i mean it's just it's just i find it really depressing to be honest because it could be done so much better and they've put in all this money it's like could we not have just taken our time and and and and done it in a well-thought-out way you know well sophie listen um that is an extremely um interesting conversation and eye-opening as well i didn't know quite who you were yeah but i'm going to follow you now thanks um because i i thought i was i was i was not led to believe but i thought that you were more of um what's the word a kind of a, not a sensationalist, but somebody who was making a name for herself by rightly pointing out stuff in supermarkets, but that you were more of a kind of a spook than anything else.

55:55Yeah, I see. This is why I like these conversations. Because I feel like it gets so much more, you get to see so much more depth of what I'm really all about, you know. And look, I do one thing on that content. And that's because that's what people want from me. You know, whenever I do other videos, and I am doing a lot more recipe videos now, because that's where my passion is cooking and I have this cookbook. But they never do as well. You know, they don't get the eyes on them. Play us the hits, Sophie. People want the products. They want to see... Hi, Sophie here. I'd like to play you some of my new stuff.

56:29Fuck the new stuff. Get out the labels. Exactly. Instagram won't show it to anyone, for goodness sake. So, yeah, I mean, that's what people want from me. So, look, that's kind of... So then you can get this kind of narrow view of what someone's about from just that content. Well, I don't think they'll get it from this podcast. Yeah, which is nice. Thank you. So thank you. Lovely to meet you. And thank you for coming in. Thanks for having me. All right.

56:52And my thanks to Sophie Morris for coming in and telling me all about what she gets up to in relation to the food industry. She was a lovely person to meet as well. And I recommend that you watch her new show on RTE, How to Shop Well Now, which will be out on RTE on October 5th. My thanks, of course, to Hum, our sponsors for their continuing partnership partnership with the Mario Rosenstock podcast. You can get in touch with me, mariorosenstock at gmail.com. And my thanks, of course, to you, the most important element, the listeners. Thank you for listening. Keep in touch with me, mariorosenstock at gmail.com.

57:25And I'll see you same time, same place next week. Bye-bye. The Mario Rosenstock podcast. Thanks to home. Finance made easy when you shop tech, electrical, appliances, kitchens, and much more. Flexify Europe Limited. Trading as home is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.