The inside track on the ruthless world of elite athletics

27:58What if you just don't feel good? We've all, listeners at home, you know what I'm feeling. On an average Tuesday, I don't know what it is today, but I feel like shit. Would you like to go out and run a 100 metre final? How do you do it? It is, it's really hard. And this is the thing where so much work goes into that single moment and you work back from that moment. So say Berlin for me, for example, like I knew when I set up that whole year from the previous October, you know, end of 2008, I'm working back from that time, that day in Berlin and everything revolves around that. okay so that's your kind of like your long term goal and then you're working towards that and even as it gets closer to it closer to it you try and and control is the wrong word but you will look at aspects of your game where okay I can manage this manage that from rest recovery but it has happened I've been at championships where people have woke up with the flu you know I was in London covering London for the world and the neurovirus broke out in the hotel so half the people got sick you know and that's just how unlucky it can be complete disaster and you know Now, again, that's where like mentally, physically, emotionally, all these things, you try and manage them as best you can.

29:09You take away the distractions. You try and control the controllables, all these cliches. But in reality, that's what it's all about. And you try and work back from that key moment and try and just manage everything as best you can. And also, you know, you have to get to a point where like the work is done, the computer is programmed, you know, and that's where tapering comes into it. you know where you're kind of not wrapping yourself in cotton wool but you're definitely looking at okay now's the opportunity to recover relax you know de-stress all of these things Do you know the idea of what I just said to you there I feel terrible today Now you don't necessarily have the flu But you're just flat You're flat Yeah just lethargic for whatever reason You know that feeling Yeah Now I'll reverse the question Has it ever happened that you woke up one day you felt crap but actually you went out and you ran well Yes that has happened Has it?

29:57Yeah that has happened even as a young kid. And that's where it's kind of really interesting from the psychology aspect that sometimes you can feel, that's a way of like the nerves. You just feel a little bit flat, a little bit lethargic. But actually you're ready to roll. It's like kind of, it's almost, your brain's kind of tricking you in many ways. And also the other aspect at times can be that if you remove all the doubts and you remove all the barriers around it and you just actually go out and run. And this is something that I think I learned particularly later on in my career was like, you know, stop trying to be perfect in a race.

30:33Just let it happen. You know what to do. I have a similar thing with writing sketches. Yeah. And I learned this a long time ago and it freed me a lot. Yeah. That early on and when I was writing sketches years and years ago, I used to think, oh, I have an idea here. OK, David Gillick does something right or meets Michael D. Higgins. But there's a perfect way to write this sketch and I have to find it. And I don't know if I'm going to find it today. I hope I can. Yeah. That's wrong. Yeah. Right. What I ended up saying was, years later, no, no, no, David Gillick meets Michael D. Higgins. There's a million ways that this sketch will be brilliant.

31:03Just fine, just go for it. Just write it, because your idea is good enough. Just be it, fluid, go for it, write it. And so, therefore, I behave on automatic and go, it's not a mathematical equation. This is creative. Your idea is good enough, just follow through on it. And what you're saying with the running is, just run. But even the words you use there, it's fluid, it's relaxed. you know what to do so just let it flow let you do your thing exactly and that was something from 2008 and 2009 every time I set foot on the track I wanted to run a 44 seconds I was forgetting about the actual 400 metres I had to run correct I was coming to the a metre to go it has to be 44 it has to be 44 you were looking at the end before the beginning it took me a season to do that and I remember going to Lanzarote on a training camp and I did a 300 metre time trial and I just it was almost like mentally I took the shackles off and I just said to myself you know I'm just going to run and see what happens and I remember a training partner coming to me and goes you have it now you have it now you know it's clicked has it the training partner could see it yeah and he'd ran 44 Martin Rooney like a year ahead of me that's right I knew Martin Rooney Britain Britain but his mum and dad were Irish thank god he never ran for Ireland yeah I know he had a good Irish name he would have had my record but that's it it's allowing yourself the shackles are off you know what to do just set the race up and just let it look after You won a European indoor 400 metres.

32:25Yeah. And then you defended the European indoor 400 metres a few years later. Yeah. Does it feel really brilliant for you to do your thing and to win? There's an element of, yeah. Yeah. I'd say... Which do you... Well, the first one... Separate from me the idea. Separate from me the idea of you running amazingly, but not winning, and you winning. So... Yeah. I think, and this is where athletics, the context is really important. When you better yourself, so that's why you've always a personal best. When you better yourself, it's a great feeling. Like you've pushed the dial, you've ran faster than you've ever ran before.

33:07And I used to always look forward to waking up the day after. And he was like, it wasn't a dream, it actually happened. So there's that immense sense of pride within yourself. There's no fanfare, there's no one kind of banging the drum going, David Gillick's fantastic. it's very much within yourself that you know what all the work that I've done I've pushed the boundary it's brilliant I think when you win a race or you win a championship it's all of that but there's more there's a lot more fanfare and a lot more patting on the back and you could even win a race a championship but you haven't ran a personal best so it's kind of like okay yeah great I won the championship fantastic but in athletics you're always trying to better yourself you're always trying to just push a little bit more 0.1, 0.2 whatever it is and I think one is very much that sense of pride within yourself and then the other one is very external.

33:55Everyone's got that immense pride for you and it's great to see the flag and all that and the lap of honour. And like even in my career, like it's great winning those. Probably the first one was a bit of a shock, a bit of a surprise. You know, whoa, hang on, I just won. The second one, there was more in it because I made decisions, I relocated. There was no element of pressure, a level of expectation. So all of these things come to the fore. So when I crossed the line, my initial feeling was relief. It wasn't about celebrating. It was like, oh, thank God. You know, so that's another element to it as well.

34:33Where was I going to go next? Oh, yeah. So what was your best time at 400 metres? So my best time was... 44.57? 44.77. 44.77. And what age were you when you ran that? I would have been, that was 2009 again. So what was that? Yeah, 26, 27, yeah. So I'm right in saying though that 400 metre runners can go till 30, 32. Yeah, like depending. Everyone's slightly individual. But if you take the event, you'd be looking at somewhere, like you can be competitive 30 or maybe push over. Like Roger Black, people might remember. Yes. Like he was competitive probably 31, 32. So you possibly could have said to yourself, I'm on my way up here on a trend.

35:14Yeah, yeah. And seriously, I could be looking in the low 44s, trying to break 44. Well, the European record at the time was 44-3. And that stood for years. That was definitely on the horizon, I believed. And even off the back of 2009, you had London on the horizon. And I kind of was like, hang on a second. You must have been looking at London. Yeah, I kind of believed I could have a rattle of getting on the podium. Yeah. Yeah. So what happened? Tell me that story Yeah Even when I say it there I'm like You know Yeah It kind of grabbed you didn't it It did yeah Because it's something like London It was probably the start of The end Maybe You know I rolled off 09 Great year 2010 Another difficult year I was running fast And I was consistent And that was the big thing And that's a big thing In sport And indeed athletics I was running 44s consistently You know Some of the best times in the world at a level where I was like, you know, within the top eight in the world, let's say.

36:18So final category. And then I didn't get a medal in the world indoors. And then I missed out on the European championships that year as well. I was fifth by 0.2 of a second. I was raging. And then it was a bit like, okay, do you know what? London's on the horizon. I've two years now. If I'm going to make a move to better myself, I need to do it now. So I looked at my game. I was like, okay, I want to get fast. so my base speed i wanted to improve that so you're breaking down the race now and i was always a strong athlete i was probably more of an 800 to 400 as opposed to a 200 to 400 so rashida would be very much 200 to 400 so she's got phenomenal base speed i never had that speed so it was an area i needed to improve upon so i go i think okay well let's look at how i can improve that where do i need to go and looked at various coaches um again the level i was at i was sponsored by a sports brand.

37:11So coaches are then aligned with brands. So there's only certain coaches I can go to if they're the same brand as me. Okay, so I ended up going to Florida, went out there, some of the fastest people on the planet, Tyson Gay at the time, second fastest guy in history. I was in that group and the main reason was I wanted to push myself, wanted to better myself, two years out from London and unfortunately it all fell apart. I got badly injured. How? I tore my soleus muscle, which I didn't even know I had. In training? In training. Just one day. It was a Tuesday. I remember doing 300s on the track, and it just felt like someone just got a hot rod and stuck it in the bottom of my calf.

37:51And I remember straight away. That's near your Achilles, is it? Yeah, yeah. It's kind of your gastroc, that kind of big calf muscle, into your Achilles. There's a soleus muscle, and it's really deep. Very hard to treat. And I missed a chunk of time with that. And you're so far away from home. You're isolated. The group that I was in wasn't very social, very transactional. You come, you train, you go home. That was it. I was living by myself. And when you can't do what you love to do, you can't do your job through injury and sickness. I was just sitting around the little one bed apartment thinking what I'm going to do.

38:27And I got very worried. I can imagine how deeply, deeply depressing that might be. It was. And like the week, we used to train Monday to Friday. So I'd have two days off. I'd have the weekend off. But sure, I'd go to the mall you know and it was just so boring and then I'd come home I used to get up and I used to watch three Premier League football matches and it'd all be done by 12 o 'clock on a Saturday and then I'd go right what do I do now yeah and that was the reality and like you ring home and you know friends or whatever and they'd be like oh Florida Orlando amazing and you'd be going try living here different ball game and it just got a little bit monotonous very repetitive and just lonely if I'm honest just lonely and you're trying to recover from an injury so like when you're a little bit down stressed, you're not sleeping great, you're beginning to get worried about the future because athletics is very cutthroat.

39:14If I'm not running, if I'm not performing, I'm going to lose money, I'm going to lose sponsors, I'm going to potentially lose funding from the government because it's all done by performance. And if I'm not performing, hey ho. So the reality of that was, that was kind of The vagaries of being a professional athlete. You just had an injury. I just had an injury, yeah. And that began the beginning of the end almost because that kind of started to ruin your training cycle yeah it did it kind of massively upset everything really I tried to come back from it I had issues then with my Achilles and then I raced that season and I wasn't fit and I was like running 46s going back to 47s I was getting angry frustrated going back to you trying to do your sketch I was like come on find this it's got to click it's got to click and it was going the opposite direction and then I was in Turkey at a race around 47 seconds dying a death up the home straight and I remember just saying to myself on the bus back to the hotel in tears like again by myself just going I've made a massive mistake so I rang my What do you mean you made a massive mistake?

40:11I should have never went to America Okay You know Where would you have gone rather than America? I would have stayed In Ireland? No I would have stayed over in Loughborough where I was in England Loughborough The thing I didn't value and this is the honest truth I didn't value the social element of life off the track I didn't value having friends family a girlfriend an hour's flight back home to Dublin if I wanted. I didn't put a value on that. I got very fixated on performance. I need to find point one. I don't blame you. That was, what you took was a very, what you took was a very selfish and deliberately correctly selfish, Roy Keane-ish, if I may say.

40:50I loved Roy Keane. Well, Roy Keane would have done something like that. Defend me. I don't fucking need a girlfriend. I'm going to become a world fucking champion. If it means I go to Florida and I'm hanging in my one-bedding apartment, they'll fucking do it. Of course he would have. He would have. And you know, Oh, you want your girlfriend, do you? Girlfriends are for namby-pambys. Do you know what I mean? So you did the right, in many people's book, you did the right thing. No, I did. And this is the thing I... But you got injured. I got injured. I got injured. Yeah, I did. And that was just the reality of it.

41:19And do you know the thing I'd say as well? Like, I never had a big, I never had a big, major injury like that before. I'd never experienced that. So that was even hard to deal with, yeah. You know, and my trainer partner in Loughborough, Rooney, like, Rooney always had niggles and ups and downs. You know, even when he was kind of a junior into senior and I look back at that and I kind of go that's resilience I don't want to make you angry and I don't want to make you more regretful but I have the feeling that based on the fact that you were 26 and 27 and you were running 44-77 and that you were running the strongest 400 metres in Europe that heading into Home Olympics Yeah Home Olympics just across the way Absolutely in London with Daniel Craig jumping out of the plane and the Queen and we would have been cheering you on and loads of Irish would have been over there maybe you could have done something special in 2012 aged about 30?

42:05Yeah, probably prime, you know, it was, yeah, yeah. Sad. I don't mean to. Give me those tissues there. Ah, no, but again, well spoken. No, and that's it, like, I think time is a great healer and you look back and, you know, I watched the closing ceremony in London and the Kingston all playing and stuff like that and I remember like, you know, it was like the biggest party. My wife, my wife, girlfriend at the time, Charlotte, was working with the British Olympic Association. She was over there and you're not invited. That's the way I felt. It wasn't, you weren't invited. But, You know, look, it's part of sport and I've accepted.

42:35And you know what it is? Like, I don't regret the decisions. I think you have to push. You have to go for it. At that moment in time, it was the best decision for me was to try these things. I know. And that's what you do. I know. And listen, people before you have made the same mistakes. Yeah. You know, and they go, well, you won the gold medal. How did it go? Well, man, I'll move to Florida. That's why. And how was Florida? Well, it was terrible, but we got the job done. well I mean you didn't have a good time no friends I was in a one bed apartment but I was training every day and my times were coming down it was transactional you know so they got it so you got injured and that's what happens to athletes okay let's get to the really depressing bit okay keep going when you come out of athletics I mean for anybody who comes out of sport as I said it's another death and it didn't really it didn't really if you like it affected you quite badly didn't it it did yeah yeah no it did talk me through that you've stopped running you've stopped racing I guess you stopped training then maybe everything well the way it all happened was quite like I kind of said to myself early on in my career I want to get to the age of 30 and be able to go I gave it a good lash gave it a good rattle and after London I said I'd give it another go we went to Canberra down in Australia got myself back into good shape preparing for a race and you know by this stage I was doing it all by myself you know sponsors and funding had all gone I was doing it by myself and I was enjoying it and then I tore my Achilles so that was kind of tough to take at the time coming back from the previous injury I remember I had a race in Japan and then boom the Achilles went so that was the day I just decided you know what I've had enough of this you know and it felt easy it actually felt very easy at the time and just yeah do you know what I've given it a good lash time to move on and I really thought it was I thought it was going to be that that simple and then I got an email from a production company literally the following day I was in Canberra, Australia would I be interested in doing Celebrity MasterChef Ireland?

44:34And I said fuck it can I say that? Yeah what I just did might as well go home and do that So I came back in 2013 and I did MasterChef I managed to win that and it filled a void and then September came around Now September was a time of the year where You'd be training and You're getting back into it It's like first day at school You're hungry, you're ready It's another year And it was a void for you Yeah And I remember waking up in my mum and dad's house and just thinking, well, what do I do now? And that's when kind of the reality of, well, the next phase of life. And people used to talk about the transition, you know, it takes a bit of time and stuff.

45:09So I kind of was like, that's just a transition, you know. And I wasn't feeling great and I was feeling a little bit anxious and worried and overwhelmed about what do I do next. And I took a job, just threw myself into stuff. Again, I was searching for something. So first job came my way, I'll do that. And I was traveling the length and breadth of the country by myself. You said to Matt that you looked at money as the possible, getting money as the possible idea that you could actually say to yourself, I'm doing something solid. I'm doing something good. Money would be the definition. See, I had no money.

45:40I had no income. No. And then I kind of got cut up in like identity. I have no title anymore because for like 12 years I was the runner and I'd come home and people were like, oh, you're the runner or the chef that used to call him. The master chef. And then I was nothing. well who was I and I panicked and I was kind of going well I need status I need a title and then I kind of looked at well what success I got caught up in like well if I have more money does that mean you're more successful than me or I'm more than you so I thought I need money so the job came there was decent money and I said okay I'll do it and the hardest part of that was I was on the road I was looking after accounts and sales all over the country so I was driving by myself and that's where just the pain of everything the decisions, going back to why did you go to Florida?

46:27You know, you'd be driving down. Ruminating. Just the whole time and resenting my whole career. Stopped exercising, hated sport. Social media, again, played a role. I used to just gorge on social media and, you know, start comparing myself to like rugby players who'd retired and gone on to businesses. And then you're like, David, why didn't you do that? You're an idiot. And this was just constant. And then like binge eating. Because my emotions were all over the place. When you say binge eating, that's interesting. How did you What kind of Form Tell me Yeah gorge on like Poor quality Carbohydrate foods Like for example At night During the day Every time Go bitch yeah What's gorging Tell me what gorging is So I'll give you an example Like there was a certain day A certain pizza company Used to do Two large pizzas For the price of one And I'd be straight On the phone Give us two large pizzas And a tub of the ice cream And I'd just do it All by myself And you'd get that Instant sort of like It was anger It was frustration Got it I got it everybody knows exactly what you're talking about and then I could do the opposite then I wouldn't eat yeah I wouldn't eat and I can remember going over I was with the in-laws and my mother-in-law she'd be a great one for kind of putting on a full spread and I remember just going at it like and I got fixated on food like I'd leave the house and then I'd be thinking about food the whole time and it was my emotions I just I wasn't centred I was up I was down and even like you know you'd be on the road and you pull in for like diesel or something and you come out with like 12 Krispy Kremes.

47:56I know what you mean. Yeah, I'm going to do this. I know what you mean. And that was, yeah, and like the fact, and I think it was such the opposite of who I was as an athlete, like very kind of, you know, into my diet and all that. In a way, there was an element of you rebelling against your control mechanisms. Definitely, yeah. You were lashing out, actually. Complete and literally lashing out. And I didn't know, and that's probably a nice way of putting it because the lashing out then, it was all, I suppose, directed at myself. To be blunt, I hated myself. That's just the best. I absolutely despised who I was and who I became.

48:33I used to idolise my past. I used to be like, I can't believe David Gillick used to run in front of 50, 70, 80 ,000 people. I had motivation coming out my ears. I was so determined. You called into a store at one stage and some guy looked at you and he said, yeah. Yeah, and that happened regularly. enough but on that particular day like i remember parking the car underground car park walking up into the store and um it felt a kind of double double take you know kind of looked at me looked at me again and he's like gillick and i was like yeah and he goes you ran 44 seconds and i said yeah and he's like what are you doing here and i was like oh i work for so and so and he was like what you run 44 seconds surely surely you'd be doing something better i know and i remember just kind of like what do you say to that?

49:18That's crushing. You know? I remember going back to the car and just like is that what people think? Even though it was only one opinion that's what I thought. It's like that thing you see in the movies or whatever where somebody goes didn't you used to be David Gillick? Yeah. And they don't even know it. Right? Didn't you used to be David Gillick? And that's wrapped up with your identity there as well. Yeah big time. It's crushing when that happens and of course your associate, your identity is and that's what I thought people then viewed me as like you know a failure that's what I thought because and I even put it on myself it was like well if the next phase my next phase of my life has to be as successful as my athletic career and if it's not I'm a failure yeah I mean I'm not a I'm not a doctor so I can't diagnose and I wouldn't dream of doing something like that but it strikes me that you had you had let's just put it issues with stress and anxiety I did and even panic attacks I was diagnosed ah yeah Yeah.

50:14And I remember the doctor gave me two prescriptions, one for antidepressants and one for psoriasis. I broke out in psoriasis. I couldn't sleep. I had insomnia and I broke out in psoriasis all over my body with stress and anxiety. And I remember the realization of like, I have to go and take tablets. And I was always someone who was very much into like, let food be like medicine and exercise and healthy lifestyle. And it was just this realization. And I remember going in, this is the honest truth. I remember going into the chemist, the pharmacy, and literally doing laps because I didn't want to hand in the prescription.

50:50And I did hand in one prescription for the psoriasis cream and then walked out. Yeah. And like, I think it was just like, there was a realisation, there was all of that. Do you know when you say all this stuff, how many people understand what you're talking about? I don't know. To be honest, I don't. It's one, like sometimes I think, because you live in your own head with these things. and that's like I did it for three years and I was so afraid and again being male I was like I can't say these things it's faster fitter stronger alpha male and even with my own mates like mates I was close with like I'm not going to turn around and go oh like how's things oh well wait till I tell you like you know so I didn't took me a long time took me a long time to accept where I was at Brilliant brilliant you found something though you found therapy didn't you?

51:36I did yeah and am I right in saying that this was one of the best things that ever happened to you? Being able to? 100, but it still is. You know? Still is. I still go. That's nearly 10 years. And tell me about therapy. Why has it worked for you? Because I can understand me. I got to know who David Gillick is. And is this with one therapist or a number of therapists? Well, it took a while. I'm not going to lie. Oh, so without naming any names, obviously. Is that the process? You have to find somebody that suits you? It's human connection. You've got to be comfortable with someone. And like, what happened before was...

52:05Like, do you jump with a three or four or five? Probably five, yeah. I think it was the fifth person that I felt, okay, I'm comfortable. Well done. And this happened over a period of time. So you stuck at it? I stuck at it, yeah. I went through a few people that I just didn't, it just didn't feel right. Yeah. Simple. I just knew it. I didn't feel right. And then the fifth person. And the fifth person I can remember going in and just feeling a little bit more at ease. And maybe it was no disrespect to the people beforehand. Maybe I was just in a good place. Does it have any, do you mind me asking, this is just an outsider's question, does it have anything to do with the sex of the person, male or female?

52:39I went to both. And I suppose the person I connected with was male in the end. Okay. But I don't think that really matters. I think it's more down to how you feel in that moment. And in my experience, it was a male. And I just felt a little bit at ease. I could just, it just let it all out. And there was no sort of overanalyzing. It was more like... And does this therapist, again, confidentiality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does this therapist, because you know the way you see the cliche sometimes of the therapist going you know the therapist is falling asleep on the couch while you're just going anyway then I had another fear there the ghosts and the fucking therapist is asleep or does this therapist speak to you yeah we would chat and it's interesting because it's a really good question because you do look at like the movies and I'm lying on the couch kind of flaked out you know no it's it's conversation what you like what always struck me about this individual was like I'd go in and I'd talk and they'd be listening or else they'd interject and they'd kind of, why do you feel like this?

53:42And you'd elaborate a little bit more. But there was never any notes. And then they'd go back in the following week and they'd know everything about the previous week. I've even forgotten about what I spoke about. They'd know. They'd know. So obviously afterwards they're kind of writing down things. But I always felt, yeah, it just felt like a conversation. But also, I think they're quite... Well, that's reassuring that they knew. Yeah, I know. Sorry, what's your name again? And then worse, Jesus you used to be David Gillick or where's your therapist Gillick you ran 44 seconds what the fuck are you doing here get your head together you loser you know it was like it was just a nice environment to be honest and kind of like just felt relaxed and they would listen and they'd interject and they'd ask certain things and like even what I used to always like was like oh I can't do this you know and they were like well why can't you like so I had a real issue with it right I worked Monday to Friday.

54:38And then because of the whole MasterChef thing, I was like, oh, I got to do something on this. This is a platform. I got to use it. So I'd be doing stuff on Saturday, flipping pancakes on a Sunday and then get up on the Monday. It was seven days a week and I was wrecked. And then Oscar was born, our first child. And I was like, you know what? I need to slow down here. So I took a Monday off. By this stage, I was working for myself. I was like right okay I'm going to take Monday off and I needed to slow down and when he was born we put him into creche for like four days a week and I took Monday with him and I needed to just take the foot off the pedal a little bit because I was run ragged and I remember saying this to my counsellor at the time I was like I can't do that though and he was like why?

55:25It's Monday like everyone's going to work and I can't you know like people would be looking at me going like what's he doing and this is where he would challenge me on it and he'd be like but did you work the weekend? I was like, yeah. He goes, well, what day? I said, both days. And he's like, so you're not entitled for a day off? And these little things, then you kind of go, and look, I'm not saying, oh, the luxury of taking a Monday off. So in other words, in your case, sometimes the therapy consisted of a little bit of practical life coaching. Big time. Yeah. Yeah. Just would kind of challenge my school of thought, you know, and the voice inside the head that'd be saying, you can't do this.

56:01Like even certain times, like, you know, like I remember I didn't want to go outside and cut the grass because I was afraid of what other people you know if it was during the week they'd be like oh Jesus Gillick Gillick Gillick Gillick he was cutting the grass on a Tuesday like must be tough Things are going downhill because everybody around here it's only Saturdays we cut the grass losers cut the grass on Tuesdays But I was very concerned about what other people thought Yeah You know very much so Yeah and it took a while and a lot of work And as the therapy helped you with not caring so much about what people think.

56:34And saying no to things as well. Oh, that's really important. That's really important. That's a lesson we all learn, David. The ability to say no. We never want to say no, do we? And then you have to learn how to say no. Why do you think I'm here, Mario? Yeah, well, you said no immediately. No, but the saying no is so important. And people don't realise that when you say no, that it isn't just good for you. It's also good for them as well. Because people have a lot more respect for you sometimes when you say no, especially when it's the right kind of no. Absolutely. But some of us want to be people pleasers too much all the time.

57:06And I'm a bit like that myself. And so I've had to learn to just do my own thing sometimes and go, no, no, I'd love to do this, but I can't on this occasion. And all that sort of stuff. Brilliantly told. Well done. You're great at talking. I mean, obviously, like, you know, you've had a good experience with it on the couch of talking now, you know. This feels like therapy. It is. It is. but it's just called counselling is this the stuff that you took yeah just counselling yeah so there's probably there's an element of like cognitive behavioural therapy and probably different things that they might be doing at different times but for me it's excellent it's just therapy like it's yeah it is it's probably one of the best investments that I've made myself and it's made me a better parent a better husband yeah and like more centred more centred and even spotting the little triggers like I know now when I get a little bit anxious a little bit stressed what can I do I can have a run you know I can eat something healthy or cook a nice dinner something that actually I feel good off the back of it I mean how most of us how more of us don't go off the rails much more is surprising yeah honestly it is yeah you know how we all hold it together but I think we don't actually hold it together we bottle a lot of stuff up a lot of us secretly I'm using this more of a metaphor but cry ourselves to sleep at night because we hold up a front during the day and then at night when it comes we crawl under the duvet and we fret.

58:27And that's exactly the way it felt for me. I'd leave the house, I'd put the mask on and I'd be the person that I thought I should be and jovial and happy and all that sort of crack. I'd get home, the mask would come off and then you see the real David who was just so tired. Yeah. And that's, of those couple of years, my overriding kind of emotion and feeling was just tiredness. I was so tired. Now I might be jumping in here in a slightly inappropriate place but it strikes me that through all this sort of stuff, right, you have to have a very, very considerate partner. Yeah. So credit to. Charlotte.

58:59Credit to Charlotte because through all of this there is always somebody who has to deal with the pain in the hole. Yeah. Yeah. And I certainly for a long time was a pain in the arse. And even with the book, I remember telling her, right, Charlotte, I'm going to do a book. And she was like, oh my God, are you serious? And she's like, and what are you going to say in it? I was like, I'm going to say everything to her. oh no, you can't do that. And then it took her a long time now to start reading bits because she was with me through everything. and in many ways when it was all done and dusted I did turn to go do I come across like an arsehole and you come across like the star of the book and she does she's an absolute saint Charlotte well done Charlotte if you listen to this podcast Mario here well done you've turned him into an exemplary figure he's fantastic now right and you've moulded him beautifully no she's brilliant and she got it she understood athletics we met through athletics and yeah hard for her at times particularly the aftermath I think she would have probably taught we have a life ahead of us away from the track and it wasn't it probably wasn't what she had planned initially you know Okay well congratulations on all that and the book is called The Race which is a great name for a book actually and it has a picture of you on the front but you're not in triumphant mode you're kind of lying on your bum on the track just after a race and you look exhausted but you also look perplexed and Exactly that so it's a good picture We stewed over the picture originally they wanted a big kind of nice bright me victorious looking and I was like that's not the reality you know so we went with this one and that's a picture of me coming in the European Championships yeah looking a bit dejected yeah and so we come full circle because not only are you doing this book and it's going very well although you're up against stiff context with Miriam O 'Callaghan out there she's going to blow all of you out of the water you know it's the real race it's about me winning you know I mean it's all about taking part fuck that it's about me winning Miriam's so competitive she should have been an athlete you know a pole vaulter or something she could have jumped over RTE but she would have been brilliant at the pole vaulter David listen it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you and we're going to give your book a right good plug and hopefully everybody goes out and buys it if you enjoyed the racket by Conor Myland you would really enjoy the race David thank you and my thanks to David Gillick for coming in and telling me his fascinating story reminded me a little of the Conor Myland story many months back.

1:01:23And if you want to scroll back, you can get fascinating interviews on tennis with Colin Ireland, who wrote that fascinating book, The Racket, which I enjoyed immensely. And my thanks to On Ice, of course, Ireland's premium ice skating experience for being our great sponsor. But my main thanks to you, our listener. Please tell one other person about this broadcast if you enjoyed it and you might recommend it. Thanks. See you next week.