We need to talk about Roy (Keane)

0:00Coming up on this episode of the Mario Rosenstock podcast. I went back to research Cork in the 1970s where I grew up myself at the same time. And I was shocked at how grim and unpromising and dark the place was. You know, there was so little opportunity. There was so little potential, so little promise. So Keane discovered the one thing that he could do and that he was really good at. And Keane came out of Cork in the 70s knowing he was going to have to scrap and fight for everything. And his whole career is that. And I think where he came out of shapes that.

0:42Ireland has produced a lot of sporting greats, but none quite like the one that myself and author Dave Hannigan will be discussing at length on this episode of the Mario Rosenstock podcast. Because Roy Keane is not just a footballer or a pundit or even a national obsession at this stage. He's practically a genre of Irish conversation unto himself. And he's someone that has been a big part of my career for many years. Obviously, he's been in Gift Grub. I've done the stage production of iKino and lots more things. Had a number one song sung by him. A Christmas number one. I think I better leave right now.

1:16You may know writer and journalist Dave Hannigan from previous episodes of the show. His new book, We Need to Talk About Roy, takes a fresh and fascinating look at Keane. Not just the man himself, but what he tells us about Ireland, ambition, class, celebrity, masculinity, football and indeed fame. And this isn't just a great piece of journalism. Dave is from roughly the same part of Cork as Roy. They are roughly the same age and they even played against each other in football a few times. In this chat, Dave and I chat about Roy's early days in Cork, why Saipan still has such a huge grip on people, how Roy became such a huge media figure and why he may actually be more culturally relevant now than he was even in his playing days.

1:57I always felt that his career was much more akin to like the guy who left Ireland, maybe with a trade, went to England and built up a massive construction company. Remarkable stories, you know, remarkable characters. He always reminded me of one of them. He was self-made, who became this one-man corporation or one-man industry. And that's what happened in Saipan. And like the FAI and everybody else knew that McCarthy and Keane didn't get on, knew they were kind of, it was a powder keg waiting to go off. But we kind of, you know, we have this thing where we'll just go, I'll leave that over there.

2:30We'll just pretend, you know, bury our heads in the sands. We'll pretend that this isn't going to happen. I think he's more famous today, 20 years after he last kicked the ball. He is a bigger celebrity than he was at the height of his fame. And his fame was playing for Manchester United when they were the biggest club in the world. so his fame is bigger than that which is very difficult to understand Roy Keane is such a fascinating character and I think you're going to love this conversation which is coming up in just a couple of minutes time but did you know that this weekend sees Michael O 'Leary's birthday not just any old birthday he's 65 years of age and do you know what we found well actually it was sent into my contacts book I don't know how I ended up on his contacts book but it was sent in it's a video message from him inviting people to his birthday for the weekend.

3:18Gotta listen to this. This is Michael O 'Leary speaking. This weekend sees the auspicious occasion of my 65th birthday. Happy birthday to me. Happy birthday to me. Now, you are cordially invited to a party at my house to celebrate that birthday. Note, nothing is included. No cake, candles, refreshments or music. Guests can however avail of the above on a tiered pricing structure. They can select each additional party feature individually during the online booking process. This process of course incurs an administration fee of€13.50. For a€15 fee you can get priority boarding to the party and for an extra€20 fee you can gain access to the party address itself which is inside the house.

4:09Those outside the house left outside will only be charged€10. When you arrive at the party address, you will then board a coach and be transferred to the real party location, which is a mere three and a half hours away. As a gesture of goodwill for my birthday, the chances of winning the€2 maximum prize on a Ryanair scratch card, which will be given out to guests, will be reduced from€15 billion to€13.5 billion to€1. Enjoy the party, shut up and have a great time. and exclusive comedy every week on the Mario Rosenstock podcast. And of course, you can contact me on the Mario Rosenstock podcast, mariorosenstock at gmail.com if you want to contact me about anything.

4:56But first, before we meet our special guest, we'd like to introduce another special guest. I'd like to warmly welcome our new sponsor, Hum. Hum is a finance company based in Ireland with over 30 years experience globally. And we are absolutely delighted to have them on board here at the Mario Rosenstock podcast. Hum provides flexible payment solutions for customers for a wide range of retailers like Ikea, Harvey Norman, Easy Living Interiors, Easy Living Furniture and DID, just to name but a few. So whether you're buying a kitchen or thinking about a laptop or new TV, some nice new jewellery or clothing, whatever it might be, Hum is there to help you make those purchases and pay back in bite-size easy payments.

5:37Couldn't be easier. Hum is there for the big things in life and the little things in life. And we are delighted to have them as a partner here on the Mario Rosenstock podcast. And thank you, Hum, for coming on board. Okay, let's cross straight over to the East Coast of the US and meet my special guest on this episode, Dave Hannigan. His new book is called We Need to Talk About Roy. And not only has he done a lot of research on Kino, he even played against him as a youth. I did, yeah. In my youth, he's the exact same age as me. He's nine months younger than me. I grew up in the same Cork as him.

6:10I ran into him on the playing fields of Cork, mostly on the soccer field, where he played for Rockmount, this famous team in the city that won all before them. I played on teams that didn't win all before them and usually lost to Rockmount. So, yeah, so I watched him from a very young age. But, of course, like, you know, you remember the names of good players that you played against, but you don't, you know, you don't necessarily think any of them is going to go on to become, you know, a very successful and famous footballer and then this cultural icon far beyond the game at this point. Like I played a little bit of schoolboys football myself in Waterford and exactly what you say is true.

6:50There was always the five or six players around town that you would know the name of and they would be kind of held in legendary status. You know, they'd kind of have a myth, a kind of a mythology about them. There was one player in Waterford called Gary Code and Code, of course, was a very famous name because his granduncle or maybe his grandfather was Paddy Code. And Paddy Code was a famous player who played for Ireland and played for Waterford and all that. And he was a legendary player. So he would have known this kind of name. Would Keane have been like that as a young player? Would people around town have known that this kid was good?

7:23Absolutely. I mean, there would have been five players, maybe even six players on that team who were very special. I mean, that was about, you know, the best school-wise soccer team of all time in Cork. And, you know, a couple of the lads went to England before him. Alan O'Sullivan, this unbelievably gifted left winger. Paul McCarty, this indomitable centre-half who did have a very successful career in the lower leagues in England. Played nearly 600 games across the lower divisions and died very tragically a few years back. But, you know, those two players, Damian Martin, Len Downey, Eric Hogan, you know, you remember all of those players would have been famous in our circles.

8:04It was like we would have known when we were going to play them, we knew who they were and, you know, what they stood for. And they were a year younger. Most of them were a year younger than us. Keane was played in the year below us. So he was playing a year up and still dominating in that age group. And he was still dominating. And even though he was small. Absolutely. I mean, and that was the knock on him. That was why people believed he did not go across to England, which, by the way, at that time, going to England was the bait. I'm sure it was the same in Waterford, like trying to get to England in your mid-teens was everything and Keane didn't go because the scouts didn't fancy the size of him and that then actually turned out to be a lucky break for him because when he did go he was better prepared and ready and had a different time in his life physically I think and mentally so that he could hit the ground running in a way he might not have had if he was 15 or 16 when he went to cross There was two types of good players when I was playing young when I was playing 12, 13s and 14s there was a player who you might just call a good player and they were good because they had skills.

9:06And then there was the player who was just a foot taller than everybody else. And basically they used to just go hoof it down to him and he would just run the length of the pitch and then launch it into the top corner. And nobody could catch him because he was just, do you know that player? Do you know that kind of thing? But he never became anything because basically they all caught up with him and as soon as they caught up with him, he was nobody. But Keane obviously was small, so that means he was not only playing superiorly at his own age, he was playing superiorly against people who were older, bigger and stronger than him.

9:39Why? What was it about him as a player? Well, I think the player that he became was kind of in embryo on the fields of Cork, if that's not an awkward enough metaphor. As in, he was the exact same player, winning the ball in midfield, more aggressive maybe in the other box. I remember him popping up in the penalty box a lot and scoring goals. In fact, he used to be in an in-house goal-scoring competition with the centre-forward at Rock Mountain, a guy called Len Downey. And that's how often he used to get forward. So he was very much the player that he became, but a little bit more of a goal threat playing schoolboys football than he was.

10:21I mean, at Forest, he was more of a goal threat than he was at United. At United, he became more of a holding player, I think. When we think about Keane as a player that pundits used to try to describe on the television, I don't think they did very much of a good job. Ever, really. I mean, Keane, I watched thousands of matches, hundreds of matches, and they'd go, oh, box to box, Keane is there. You know, I would say, what else? The leadership. You know, Roy Keane, the leadership, the aggression. You know, you won't leave Roy down. You know, Roy will be, you know, he's driving standards. but this is not talking about him as a player at all I mean it turns out that there's a couple of things about him as a player that were worth mentioning I mean one is his first touch and his ability on the ball which is completely under regarded apparently two is his flat speed and his endurance speed which they call box to box but what it actually is it's covering miles which nowadays they always go by they go, oh, this player covered 11.9 kilometres.

11:27In those terms, Keane must have been covering 14 kilometres at times, I'd say. So as a player, he had gifts. His passing is the one thing that I always felt was so underrated. He was an incredible passer of the ball, but his impact on the game in terms of his aggression and putting himself about is a lot of what the pundits saw. And they didn't see these incredibly sharp, incisive passes, you know, hitting a hit at real speed, like the pace of the passing and the direction of it and you know the famous stories about him like telling players newly arrived at the club we don't pass sideways we pass forward you know but on YouTube somebody put together a collection a couple of years or a compilation of Keane's passing and you're like totally overlooked totally overlooked look I could go on for hours but how overlooked he was in terms of these stupid individual awards in England that he won footballer of the year once you know David Ginola beat him out in 99, you know, just tragedy, very tragic injustice.

12:29But, you know, I'm sure that didn't bother Keane because, you know, he wasn't ill for that. But yeah, I think he was very, very underrated as a footballer. He was a much more all-round player than just like an aggressive central midfielder putting himself about. He had a lot of skills. You said it, his first touch, beautiful first touch. Yeah. Let's try and go a little deeper though. I mean, this kid, this eight-year-old, nine-year-old, 10-year-old teenager then, was obviously demonstrating, and you allude to it in your book, obviously he's demonstrating a desire and bordering on an obsession.

13:03Do you have any idea, have you had a thought about this? I'm sure you've tried to think about it, Dave. Where is this kind of stuff coming from? Well, I think my thesis in the book is it comes from the environment that he was brought up in, like the Cork. I mean, I went back to research Cork in the 1970s where I grew up. myself at the same time. And I was shocked at how grim and unpromising and black and white and just dark the place was, you know, there was so little opportunity. There was so little potential, so little promise. So Keane discovered the one thing that he could do and that he was really good at.

13:41And that then became, you know, his potential path out, which by the way, very difficult path to choose and a very often impossible path to navigate. But my, my, my point is like the place you come out of dictates i think how you approach the world and keen came out of cork in the 70s knowing he was gonna have to scrap and fight for everything you know being being working class in ireland in the 70s and 80s you always felt like that everything was stacked against you you know everything was stacked against you the government didn't care about you you know school your schools were neglected you know by everybody and you just really didn't have a chance so if you were going to take a chance you're going to have to fight bloody hard for it And his whole career is that like he gets he gets chances that other people got to.

14:26But he took the chances and never, never relented. Once he got a grip on something, he would never relent. And I think, you know, where he came out of kind of shapes that. Like, you know, I'm not a psychologist, but I think that's a driving force inside of you. If you don't grow up with anything, you're going to be desperate to get something. Yeah, because this is where I don't know much about it, but a few people have told me stories. He didn't get it from his father because his father seems to be a fairly laid back fella who, you know, was a bit of a character himself, who people used to have a laugh with.

15:01And he was very proud, very, very proud of Roy's achievements. But he liked himself as a character as well up in The Local. And, you know, Morris Mossy was not Roy Keane Sr. He was Mossy Keane. But I do get the impression that maybe his mother was made of stern stuff. Yeah, his mother didn't feature much in his public life, but there's one great quote from her where she's asked about a journalist, you know, about Roy coming from the ghetto. And it's like, that's how the question is posed. And she puts the journalist in her place by saying he did not come from the ghetto. He came from a very fine working class neighborhood where we looked after each other.

15:44And, you know, she kind of points out that the world, that he's not quite the cliche that we all, our journalists certainly tried to make him fit into in the early part of his career. So yeah, the mother is a very quiet character holding the family together. You know, Reiki doesn't reveal much about his family life in his autobiographies. You know, he doesn't go into, which is perfectly, you know, his right, whatever, his prerogative. But, you know, I think the stuff about Mossy is like, Mossy was a typical, was all too typical of a type of male in Cork in the 80s who struggled to find work. You know, if you did not have a set of skills, if you didn't have a trade, if you did not have an education, which obviously was not available to working class generations up to like the early 70s, you did not have many prospects and the factories were all closing.

16:33There was seasonal work available in factories. But that even dried up as the 80s kind of, as the 80s wore on. so yeah I mean you know his family knew the spectrum of unemployment well as did every working class family across Cork City at that time There's that famous I don't know if it's apocryphal statement of him in one of the locals like the Temple Acre or whatever and you know he points down at his crotch and he goes see that lads 3.95 million I don't know if that's true or not Yeah I don't know if that's true I mean there's a lot of you know in the early days especially there was a lot of kind of off-colour stories told and kind of, you know, tall tales spun about Marcy Keane.

17:15And, you know, I mean, I think a lot of that was unfortunate. And, you know, I wouldn't be a fan of the genre, to put it like that. Yeah. I wrote down a list of sportsmen here, Irish sportsmen. Stephen Roach, Liam Brady, Padraig Harrington, sports people like Sonia O'Sullivan, Katie Taylor, Ken Daugherty, even Conor McGregor. And like really none of them, albeit as great as some of them are and beloved as some of them are, really none of them come into the hapenny place when it talks about the fascination they hold over us in Ireland. Why are we so fascinated by him? I think that his fame, right, his career, his entire career, like his professional career takes off in the 1990s.

18:06there's a number of things happening in the 1990s that are going to make him more famous and more of a subject more of a character on the national landscape than any previous like liam brady playing for juventus winning the scudetto with juventus one of the most underrated things in irish sporting history but to go back to king well what's happening in the 1990s manchester united are making a comeback you know haven't been down for decades they are the biggest club in ireland and they're going to get bigger they're going to become the biggest club in the world they're going to become a merchandising machine and global brand and keen is going to keen's career takes off while that's taking off right sky sports take over the premier or the premier league comes into being sky sports invent a whole new way of covering the game with exaggeration and hyperbole and every game is a classic and that so that that that that that changes how we look at football and roy keen's career is taking off as sky sports has taken off And then in Ireland, I think in the 1990s, Ireland became a tabloid nation.

19:07You know, there was a tabloid, we'd always had tabloids, and the British tabloids had always sold very well in Ireland. But there was a tabloidization of Ireland in the 1990s, and Keane's fame takes off just as the tabloids take off. The Daily Star or the Irish Star, you know, becomes a big newspaper in Ireland in the 1990s. And then the British tabloids all bring out Irish editions to try and cash in on it. And now we have an Irish celebrity culture. And some of those celebrities are kind of fake, tuppence-happiness celebrities. But Roy Keane was the best player on the most famous team on the planet in the most hyped soccer league in the world.

19:45So, you know, you take all of that together and you can see why he is a character of fascination. Like, you know, he is the only guy that will have a satirical radio show just based upon his life. That's right. That's right. I mean, I even noticed when I was thinking through the book, I mentioned a couple of times in it with regards to, and correctly, by the way, they were both right. The first time was in relation to Saipan and Shea Given's story, which I've checked out and I checked out with Shea Given and everything. and it was through that story that it was a very tense moment in the airport and Shea Given sticks on Radio Roy and he basically goes there's a moment of like absolute tension and apparently Keane lifts his eyes then and has a little chuckle and then that's basically permission to laugh has been granted but that was following a very tense episode with Bertie Ahern and all this on the plane Keane had not wanted his photograph being taken and Bertie was turning it into a bit of a clown show on the way out to Tokyo you know, a real Fianna Fáil sort of photo opportunity.

20:49And then the second one you talked about is the Radio Roy. And the Radio Roy was, Roy, we were getting so many stories about Roy in 1999 and early 2000 that I suggested to Ian Dempsey and Paul McClune, why don't we just give Roy his own radio show? Because footballers now are becoming much, much more media savvy and media friendly. You know, this was pre-footballers having their own Instagram accounts or anything like that. But they were becoming more part of the media. They were becoming media commodities. You know, they were becoming media owners. They were becoming, you know, the first instances of owning your own brand and your own rights, your own copyright had already come into the public idea.

21:30So I said, why don't we just call it Radio Roy? And it really had a little, it really rolled off the tongue, the idea that Roy would be on the radio. But the real idea of Radio Roy was that he was on the radio because he was Roy Keane, but he was on the radio and his family were fucking mortified that he was on the radio. Because we love Roy, but not on the fucking radio, Roy. You're making a goal of yourself. and then it was exacerbated by the idea that I had heard through my friend Eamon Fitz into Day FM who's a huge bars man same Finn bars and a big cork hurling guy like myself yeah and I went down and I did a bars actually thing there a couple of years ago a fundraiser but anyway Fitz goes he has a brother called Johnson Johnson I don't know anybody in Ireland who knows anybody in Ireland who has a name called Johnson It's an impossible first name You might see it as a Possibly as a black name In America somewhere His name is Johnson But not in Ireland And not in Cork And not in Mayfield And so we used Johnson As the vehicle That he'd ring up And he'd be the If you like The voice of mortification The old fella The old fella There's gawk all over the console Yeah Get off the radio You're making a disgrace yourself A goal of yourself So that was that And we had lots and lots of fun And then we turned radio Ray into a radio host and we used all the sort of pillars of radio to have fun with him, you know?

23:02And so, yeah, it was quite extraordinary. So both the times that you mentioned there were utterly true. And that's because he was such a huge character that we had to do something with him, Dave, that could actually ingest the amount of material that was coming out about him. I personally think that around the Saipan time, he went from a different, he went into a completely different league. Now, obviously, we know about Saipan. But I'll never forget the interview he gave to Tommy Gorman. Because I was right over all that and concentrating cleverly, keenly on it. and one of the things I remember coming out of it was how many women began to become interested in Roy Keane after that interview because he appeared as a man not in his shirt and boots not as the sort of barbaric warrior but as this kind of emotionally sad emotionally affected human being a man with his little dark green D 'Odora sweatshirt and his little and his eyelashes I noticed his eyelashes he had long eyelashes you know he was kind of like almost pretty pretty eyelashes and the thing about him was he was far more handsome in the thing you could see this in the flesh in the sense that he was a man wearing a sweatshirt and when you take that out of the pitch you see how ruggedly handsome he is and how healthy he is and young and I remember after that that interview the amount of women that had an interest in Roy Keane and I think that catapulted him to even more national debate and argument.

24:48Yeah, it's extraordinary. Well, it's extraordinary the trajectory of his career because I think he's more famous today. 20 years after he last kicked the ball, he is a bigger celebrity than he was at the height of his fame. And his fame was playing for Manchester United when they were the biggest club in the world. So his fame is bigger than that, which is very difficult to understand. for what it's worth not as easy for me to do anymore is that because he's so prevalent like because he's everywhere now no or he's changed it's because he's so ironic he's so he is so self aware and so ironic characters who make the best satire and comedy are characters who can't see it in themselves so when Enda Kenny says to you my name is Enda Kenny and I'm a very serious person and I would never lie to you you're going you're a fucking liar and you're not serious right so that's why we can make fun of you right when Bertie Ahern talks about I swear I didn't know where the money was and I won it on a horse and he's crying that's satire Roy Keane is now doing everything but he's doing it with a nod and a wink he's playing a version of himself which is the which is the heightened version of himself which means he is undercutting me he's pulling my rug away and so I can see that yeah so he's harder to do Dave He's harder to take the piss out of.

26:11And I also think he's too available. Like, he's everywhere. You know, what can you come up with that he hasn't said? You know, you could work on a sketch and he could come up with something today that will go farther, faster than anything you produce because he is a viral content creator. Correct. I mean, years ago, years ago, we would have invented a sketch where we go, imagine if Roy Keane gets an Instagram account and he has a cute little fluffy dog. right well that's been done he did it so you can't you can't follow that you know what do you think of his public persona the the current public persona what do you think it's fascinating but yeah yeah i think it's fascinating because it's an incredible evolution over a number of years um into everything he said he didn't want to be i'm not as hung up in it as some people are because i mean i'm in i'm the same age as him we all change you reach your 50s you're a different person than you were in your 20s you have different interests and different priorities and different opportunities come your way uh that you may take that you wouldn't have taken before i think at times it veers on on parody i mean i think at times he's he's like a footballing jeremy clarkson and the other two are like richard hammond and james may if you're a top gear person you'll understand that or there's other times he's like victor meldrew you know shaking his fist going on about leaf blowers and paddle and getting really worked up, like getting really worked up about really mundane things.

27:39And as you say, like, is that a persona now? Or is that like, he's really annoyed about going to parties because parties are overrated and, you know, all this stuff that he comes up with. But I think what I'm most fascinated about it is how much he reveals of himself. Like, you know, there are moments that are just cabaret, obviously, but then there's moments on the overlap where he's like producing that clipper he produced a photograph of his parents at wembley and he showed uh you know he teared up looking at them like because it was 30 years ago and you know time has passed and and stuff like that and you know i thought that was a very human moment and he's brought out contracts and showed his contracts from back in the day that is fun it's like and and that's to me it's like you got i could never of all the things i could ever see him doing i could never see him being as as revelatory as that and that's the other thing about our fascination with him he did not make himself that available to the media like around about the time that you were doing you know in the area of of the radio roy stuff part of it was that he wasn't giving long sit-down interviews all the time he'd do one or two a year so he wasn't a constant public presence and constant media presence so you you know there There was rich, rich, rich territory.

28:52Correct, because that was filling in the gaps. Exactly, exactly. Like he was, he would kind of give, he'd come home and he would do this press thing for the guide dogs, which he did great work for and continues to do great work for all throughout his career. And that would be his kind of address. That was his State of the Union address. It was, yeah, that was the State of the Union. And I'll never forget the day we got the call from his people into our office because we had never asked for him, never dreamed of it, because there was no point. Do you know what I mean? There's just, at that point, there was just no, no way.

29:26You wouldn't even reach out. Do you know? Because it would be laughable within the room to reach out. So it never even came into our mind to reach out. So that never even, would we ever? No. We didn't even, would we ever even talk about it? No. And then in this 2005, I think it was, this call came through from the press officer going, Roy would love to meet you and you're going like first of all I didn't believe it I thought it was a crank call from Fitz upstairs or something and he said about what? He's doing the guide dogs for the blind and he he likes your stuff and he'd like to what do you mean he likes the stuff?

30:06And so it turns out he's a real fan of comedy but also more specifically impressions he's a real fan of comic impersonations so he would have been a real fan of that kind of the fast show and Harry Enfield and spitting image and things like that and he loves the taking the piss out of public characters a very cork thing and so he would have been very cork in that respect and so yeah so that came about and then met him one you know recorder big room and my only thing was I started doing Roy Keane at him not knowing if he'd just go What the fuck are you doing? What do you think? What the fuck? Like, what are you doing?

30:52Right? And I thought this was my nightmare. I thought he'd just start going, sorry, who do you think you are and what are you doing? On the contrary, he started kind of playing along with it. And he kind of went along with me as being Roy Keane. Now, that takes a kind of an emotional jump from a human being to go, I know the guy is doing me, but I'm going to let him do me and pretend he is doing me and he is me and I'll be me as well. So he was Roy Keane to my Roy Keane and it's after that day I've thought about it a lot and I went he gets showbiz straight away he got showbiz. And so that was the character that you see now.

31:31He gets showbiz like really, really, really well. And he's very quick and you know but he understands showbiz which is why he's so suited for all this world. And he has comic timing You know, I mean, you know more about that than I do, but, you know, he has real comic timing. The delivery of some of these lines, you know, seems to be not perfect. It is. It is. You seem to have put a little bit of a nexus on Saipan. That Saipan was a moment whereby a lot of things came out about Roy Keane, but not Roy Keane, Ireland. Yeah, here's what I think about Saipan. It is fascinating for me because in my day job, I teach history.

32:15And in America, Saipan means something completely different to Ireland. So that's always kind of fascinated me. And in the chapter, I try to revisit a little bit and show you what the Battle of Saipan was actually about and how the Americans are still burying their dead from Saipan. And we're still picking over the entrails of Saipan ourselves. But my thing here was it was a very Irish. the whole thing and I cover the Irish team in the 1990s before I moved over here and it was a very Irish situation right in that the manager of the team and the best player did not get on and everybody in and around the organization knew that and nobody did anything about it and this had been going on for years and as I said it's like when you go to an Irish funeral sometimes you know feuds come out or it might be a wedding there's a long simmering feud that nobody's addressed or a fallout and we've just all pretended it wasn't there and then it explodes.