How Unilever is transforming brand building with creators, social media and AI

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0:49Selina Sykes: Hi everyone and welcome back to the latest episode of the Marketing Week podcast. I'm Niamh Carroll, News Editor at Marketing Week. Today we're joined by Selena Sykes, Global Vice President for Digital, Social and AI Transformation in Unilever's Beauty and Wellbeing Business Group. Unilever is undergoing a marketing transformation, something Selena is spearheading in the Beauty and Wellbeing division. The company's transformation has attracted a lot of attention, particularly the creator aspect. But as Selena tells me on this podcast, Unilever's focus is less about individual channels and more about continuing its mission.

1:23Selina Sykes: building brands in a world where how people shop and consume media is rapidly changing. We dive in to what a marketing transformation really means against an ever-evolving backdrop and how Selena sees this process as an ongoing mission rather than a one-time process. We discuss the role that AI has in all that and where it's really driving a step change for the organisation. The conversation covers how Unilever is transforming brand building but Selena puts a lot of emphasis on what is staying the same. She's keen to emphasize that the fundamentals of brand building

1:57Niamh Carroll: will always be consistent.

1:59Selina Sykes: Fab, thank you Selena for joining us. I wanted to dive straight in and talk about Unilever's marketing transformation. Transformation is obviously in your title. I think there's been a lot written, some by me, and a lot is talked about around Unilever's marketing transformation. But I guess I wanted to start with the why. You know, Unilever obviously has a really impressive reputation over decades for being a great brand builder. I guess, what is it about the modern ecosystem that necessitated this transformation, really?

2:30Niamh Carroll: Yeah, I think it's a great question. And it's interesting that transformation's in my title, because I think if you look back, people saw these transformations as programs that kind of, you know, happened every now and then. And what we're seeing now is in marketing, we believe that the fundamentals are exactly the same, like building distinctive brands with consistency, with clarity, making sure those brands have reach, can be discovered, making sure that you can persuade people and be relevant to people, making sure that you can convert people and get your sales. Those fundamentals are exactly the same.

3:04Niamh Carroll: But what we've seen is that how you achieve those things is radically different and it continues to change. It's being driven increasingly by new commerce models, new content models, creator ecosystem, AI powered platforms. So ensuring that we are delivering those marketing fundamentals, continuing to build these really huge brands that have penetration in so many households globally and a part of everyone's lives in 2026, in 2027 and continuing. we have to really maintain a closeness with what's changing in the marketing ecosystem and having that transformation.

3:43Selina Sykes: How does that then filter down in practice? Like how are you working with the teams in the beauty and well-being division to really bring that to life and take them into this kind of new era, I guess, if you like?

3:54Niamh Carroll: It's such an exciting time. I think there's a couple of things we're doing. first we're like very outcome focused because I think you can get really distracted by how much is going on there's like always some new thing that someone's talking about some trend and we really try to not be distracted by that and focused on our business outcomes our brands the impact we want to have and then work backwards so then what needs to change what needs to transform to achieve those outcomes and as we do that we really identify new capabilities that we need to build new ways of reaching people new ways of persuading and selling our brands and then how I work with the teams is effectively we kind of really codify what needs to change and how we do marketing really build up those and that could involve everything I always think it's quite a system led it's not just tech it's also the change in the people it's huge the cultural adoption the skills you need to build the mindsets you need to build and then it's the processes you know the way of working is going to change completely so this combination of people process and the technology creates new systems and that's what we start to embed and start to bring our teams on board with and start to scale throughout our business and our brands it's interesting you know

5:08Selina Sykes: you were talking about that idea that I guess transformation used to be seen as kind of like this finite process of something someone would do you know every a company would do every once in a while but it sounds like you know it's kind of continuous process that you leave it and I guess how are you making sure that you know while you're implementing big transformative changes you're also keeping up with what's happening now how are you keeping ahead while transforming

5:33Niamh Carroll: I'm really geeky about this subject I think so much in the transformation space is about the people and bringing them on a journey to do that so you're right you have to land things you have to embed things you have to show impact you don't just do change for change states you do change so you get better business impacts so we're constantly looking at like is the change we're landing adopted executed and driving effectiveness like that's a constant look but while you do that you also have to keep your eye on the horizon and say like well what else could be happening and what could be changing i find it hugely exciting i think it's probably the most exciting time to ever be working in an industry like marketing because of the pace of change.

6:15Niamh Carroll: So how we do that, again, it's focus. So I have this phrase that I use in the business called capability velocity. And I love the word velocity because if anyone's a scientist listening, it's speed times direction. Exactly to your point, you have to keep moving fast. You have to have pace and speed to get things landed and to show impact. But you have to have direction. You have to make choices of where you think that impact is going to be. And you have to focus on those. And to your point with something like AI, where things are, you know, you're right with within six months, the conversation completely changes.

6:46Niamh Carroll: You have to keep focusing on we want better business impact. So what's the solution that we can try today? What do we need to remain agile and free to change because it might change in the future? And what do we want to just start experimenting and landing today? I can give you an example. We've built a really strong content capability in Unilever using AI. So an AI powered and we call it content supply chain. We've built a lot of that with quite foundational technology, foundational processes that we have started to experiment. And we got really early results showing us how well this model was moving.

7:22Niamh Carroll: But within six months, you realize that the actual technology moves even faster. So when we started, it was a lot of image based content generation. Quite quickly, video became possible. And then that opens up a whole new realm of possibilities for us. so as we even built that we realized that we needed to keep some freedom within that so what we start doing now is we create really clear frameworks of where we want to experiment and then we keep really giving everyone space to use the new technology to experiment with new processes so we maintain that velocity of landing the change as it's happening in the market i think one of

7:55Selina Sykes: your colleagues that phrase about like performing while transforming i think that's like so like key and can be difficult that striking that balance as you say between experimentation and also yeah like delivering the gains are there any other particularly in the AI space because I think still sometimes in conversations about AI we talk about it in the abstract you know we talk about AI as one great amorphous thing and I wondered whether there were kind of any particular examples you wanted to share around a particular initiative that has kind of really step changed how doing things at Unilever?

8:31Niamh Carroll: I think you're right this content of perform while you transform is really important and AI really is enabling us to do that because there's ways we can use AI today that's going to really help us perform in the market and deliver value and then there's ways in which we think AI is going to evolve and change in which it will really transform our whole business model. So I can give some examples and I like how you phrased it because what we try and talk about in Unilever is not having AI use cases, but having AI value cases. So what's the value creation that the AI is using? So one I'll give is the content example.

9:07Niamh Carroll: That's probably our biggest gain that we've made in marketing is using AI to enable our content supply chain. So we've been able to really dramatically drive the volume of content that we create. We've also been able to make savings, cost and time savings that are significant. And I think the most exciting part of it is the improvement in the actual performance of that content. So we're seeing content that's part of that AI enabled supply chain is 23 % better purchase intention and uplifts versus content that hasn't gone through that supply chain. And it's worth mentioning that that AI workflow is humans and technology working together.

9:47Niamh Carroll: But it's a really strong value case. And that's why we're really investing and growing that capability further.

9:51Selina Sykes: I mean, it is interesting, like, you know, you're talking about kind of quality as well as volume there. And I think sometimes like marketers fear of AI maybe slightly is that you're kind of adding to the volume of content that's out there. So tell me about the safeguards about, you know, how you're making sure that why you're critiquing more volume, you are that is making impact, as you say.

10:11Niamh Carroll: A hundred percent, because it's not just about activity. It's about the effectiveness of it. So one of the biggest safeguards we put in is this, I'd almost call it a brand intelligence layer. So we call it our brand DNAI. Does that make sense? So it's the brand DNAI. And what we've done is we've taken all of our power brands in Unilever, and we've really coded them into an AI model, which takes everything that we know about them. So all of the look and feel, the colors, the fonts, the tone of voice, the communities and cohorts that it's relevant to, its brand meaning, its distinctiveness, everything about the brand that we know and that we believe should be coded into all the content that goes out from that brand, we've put into the brand DNA.

10:58Niamh Carroll: AI. And then that means that any model that we choose to use to either remix our content or generate our content can feed off of that intelligence layer and can therefore operate within the guidelines. And actually, this is a great example of how AI is not just driving efficiency. Having that brand in AI makes all our content more consistent, all our content better within the brand guidelines because it's been hard coded in. And we're really building out those capabilities to make them even more effective by getting performance data back into that intelligence so then you know what works you know what doesn't work and then that's again being

11:33Selina Sykes: coded into the next piece of content that you create absolutely I feel like we couldn't have a conversation about Unilever's marketing transformation without talking quite a bit about creators and especially you know there's been lots of headlines about and I have the number here somewhere because I don't want to misquote the CEO Fernando Fernandez talked about I think this was back in February but talked about that in the last year the number of creators a beauty and well-being division had worked with gone from 75 ,000 to 180 ,000 which is obviously a very big increase when you're talking about keeping you know the brand fundamentals correct across AI when it comes to creators and you know trusting out your message to thousands of creators how are you ensuring that these people are maintaining the brand fundamentals yeah I it's such an important

12:26Niamh Carroll: point and it's something that I see a lot of companies you know questioning when they're starting to work with the creator ecosystems but for us before we started this journey we really like looked inward about like do we know how what our brands should be saying are we clear really clear on who our brands are and how they'll show up because you can't start going and talk to these creative people who are making content every day and ask them to be consistent to your brand if you're not even clear how your brand can be relevant to culture today you know if you've got these very you know old-fashioned brand guidelines you need to really think about your brand in the world today and think about how it can be relevant and how it can show up so we started with really deep work about our brands and how they should show up with that clarity then you can have really powerful relationships with creators we feel that creators can be a really powerful part of our brand building mix because if you have meaning within your brand if you have something that's worth sharing creators are a fantastic partner to work with to share that to share that in a really authentic way to really build relationships with wider communities and to your point one of the things we've done is we've really de-averaged the concept of a creator and if it's with very like high tier creators who are more kind of tastemakers and gatekeepers of culture we tend to have more long-term collaborations with them so we work they it's not just us briefing them on our brand it's about bringing them into the brand ecosystem and getting them to be co-authors of our brand stories so we make sure that it's relevant for our brand we're keeping that brand consistency and that brand message strong, but in a way that's really going to resonate in culture and resonate with the communities that we want to engage with.

14:07Niamh Carroll: So that's how we work with those creators. And then the creators that you referenced that drive the scale, whether they're affiliates or Nanos or UGC, it's about having really clear messages and knowing what you want them to say. And then building communities around that is really cool ways of how you can work with those different influencer networks to coach them give them briefs because they want to make content that's engaging they want to make content that the brand wants to promote if you change your model and you start to work with them more like a community what you're building is actually advocacy for your brand and then you find that your brand message is shared in a really strong way you know I think like not too long ago a lot of brands were seeing creators as kind of like a

14:52Selina Sykes: bolt on and clearly at Unilever you know you guys are trying to make core to the strategy but I guess when it comes to kind of the relationship between your senior you know marketers and then filtering that down into what's coming out from these you know whether it's a really big creators or the thousands of maybe nano creators like how are you kind of maintaining that strategic fit so that it is core to the brand strategy as opposed to just a bolt on it very much depends on what the brand

15:21Niamh Carroll: job to be done is so I can talk about a launch that we recently had in the UK with Tresemme so Tresemme is a brand that's been around for a long time and we relaunched it with an incredible new formula to the point that the formula was so good you could almost say well how is this coming from a brand like Tresemme which is a brand that I buy in the supermarket the product's fantastic I've used the product it's incredible and because of that brand job to be done where you're really trying to share this like wow factor of the new formulation and the relaunch using this nano creator community was a great way of doing it because you literally are getting real people's views of how this project's changed real people who've used tresemme so we were able to create a really consistent brief that that talked about the message we wanted to get out there which is that tresemme has really fundamentally changed its formulation and it's incredible and you've got to give it a try and you can see how that brand job to be done works really well with the nano creator community so then when you give that brief out we had a really key formula around it was like what are the five stars you would give it and everyone would have different types of five stars depending on their hair and their needs so it allowed for the creativity and the authenticity of the nano creators but it also kept really clearly within the the framework of the brand messaging and that consistency that we want to drive and for that brand job to be done it was really really effective and it drove that campaign really successfully there might be other jobs to be done where you'd work differently so keeping that strategy clear and right through to the nano creators very much depends on what your brand job to be done is and you know what kind of messages you want to get out there just like any type of marketing you do I guess speaking about

16:52Selina Sykes: brand job to be done like I think kind of some outsiders when seeing you know the headlines about you guys increasing the number of creators you work with have sort of criticized Unilever for having a bias to invest in creators I guess how are you making sure that you know when it comes to media mix that it actually fits well and how are you experimenting to get that right balance with as you say the brand job to be done and the market job to be done as well I think what I'd say

17:18Niamh Carroll: is like it's not an either or we don't at all see anything about this as being any any part of our mix competing with each other all we focus on is the impact and the effectiveness and we have really strong ROI models as I say depending on the brand we'll create a mix that that really drives you know the best outcome and impact and effectiveness for our brands in the market in in whichever market that we're driving them um so there's definitely not any in-going preference it's more of a very clear look at what the effectiveness is and what the outcome is and then we choose the best model for that when it comes to creators you know you guys at Unilever

17:58Selina Sykes: talk a lot about the powers of others say that's like a phrase ringing creators and the power of that and I guess I wanted to talk about the power of you know your big brands among that you know when clearly creators have a role in driving kind of brand trust but talk about the role of like that a big brand that's built a deck where you can play in that ecosystem above like a startup or

18:22Niamh Carroll: a newer brand yeah I think when you've got huge brands not only do they have a legacy that has stood the test of time there's something about that brand that has some really deep meaning that has connected with people so take a brand like Vaseline Vaseline has been around for 100 150 years having that longevity but also having that scale that it's used you know it's it's I don't know the penetration number but I'm sure I'm sure it's really highly penetrated across the world we often say that there's a Unilever product being used every three seconds so these are products that are in people's homes um they're being used every day they've been used for hundreds of years.

19:04Niamh Carroll: And if you've got a brand like that, with that scale, it means that there is something deeply relevant and meaningful about that brand that means it's been able to stick around over all those generations of families, over all those different cultural waves, societal waves, economic waves. There's been something of deep human insight and deep human connection and deep human meaning. And I think that's what I mean about the fundamentals for us. We believe in those fundamentals. And what we see now is that the way to share that deep insight of why our brands are relevant, why our brands are meaningful to people today, the way to share that is by finding a way that you can engage people, others, to share and talk about your brands.

19:45Niamh Carroll: Because today there are ways that people can do that that they couldn't do 50 years ago. And that's what's changed. So it's these brands with scale, with legacy, they really have strong meaning, strong connection with people and we're just trying to find ways to spread that and to make sure that the relevance of our brands is really shared at scale you know that's what we call desire at scale the desire has always been there for our brand the desire is there but the scale of our brands means that we really need to use these new models AI creator ecosystems to get that reach and scale

20:16Selina Sykes: across our brands yeah absolutely I mean you've already said it's not kind of an either or scenario I guess how is kind of create influencer marketing working together with your paid media to I guess make it more than the sum of its parts right and to really feed into each other.

20:34Niamh Carroll: 100 % because we don't see influencer marketing as a channel or like a media channel that we're choosing between hence like you say it's not an either or how it can work is as I say we start by thinking about how some of these people who are tastemakers who are kind of gatekeepers of culture can come and be co-authors of our story with us so that's a real shift so it's not just about choosing them in our mix it's about bringing them into the conversation and collaborating with them and the other partners that we work with so again it's not an either or it's about collaborating with everyone and bringing these voices together and so that's one way that we see it really working with our mix and then when you get to actually you know syndicating that and getting that out into the world it's about how we create big ideas you know really key messages that people want to share and then finding the systems that you can get that shared and that's like the nanos the affiliates all of those those methods but also paid media has a really strong place because when you've got something that's really strong you can amplify it and get even greater reach and scale using the paid media so it has a really important role to play as well and that's why we look at our return on investment across everything we don't you know like i say we don't trade things off against each other it's about the content it's about the channel it's about the format it's about looking at it holistically and working out what's the right mix to get the

21:52Selina Sykes: right performance for our brand clearly like you know shareability when it comes to create is is like an amazing thing and it creates a lot of excitement in the business you know a campaign takes off and goes viral but obviously you know as a business you want to go beyond impressions or interactions and link that back to ultimately business results so talk to me about how you are

22:16Niamh Carroll: capturing the impact of that yeah I think it's really important um like this this concept that I'm really focused on in the transformation is the effectiveness of what we do you know is it really driving that and I how we look at that is of course engagement is like maybe an early indicator that this is connecting with people and this is driving some talkability some commentary like you're really connecting at some ways is a sentiment positive what are people saying all of those things we look at um what are people searching for whether it's on ai assisted search or or on other search channels all of those are really good indicators for how well it's connecting with people but ultimately we look at effectiveness through is it full funnel is it driving the awareness is it driving the engagement is it driving the conversion and we look to what's driving our brand growth our sales performance in the short term but also driving the equity of our brand so we have equity measures that we're looking for in terms of how salient our brands are are our brands really differentiated are they meaningful um are they creating that kind of mental availability

23:15Selina Sykes: for people and yeah as well as the sales when it comes to you know kind of the split between like performance and brand marketing on the creator channel is that like as relevant that

23:26Niamh Carroll: old 60 40 mix like talk to me about that i don't know i'm not sure about the numbers in the mix but performance and brand marketing i really think you need to look at the full funnel now like you you absolutely should be building your brand should be you know making sure that you're the meaningfulness of your brand and the messaging of your brand is there but it needs to be at a point where it's converting and that it's it's bringing the reason to purchase to the front and there are you know there are channels like tiktok shop social commerce where that all happens really quickly um and then there are other channels where you can really create wonderful storytelling moments that are more you know upper funnel and those moments still exist too so it's about being able to keep I think often people find it hard to keep two truths alive that feel quite different I think we're able to maintain that paradox of like there is the funnel is still alive and you've got to create assets and connections with people that drive the full funnel but at the same time you need to realize that sometimes that funnel happens immediately and all the other way around and you need to react to that as well and that's a lot about what I do in the transformation is help decode that for our marketeers so they can be really successful at navigating that and making sure that we win where we need to win when we need to win

24:37Selina Sykes: no absolutely i mean yeah the shopping journey on tiktok shop looks so different to like a

24:43Niamh Carroll: traditional fmtd 100 and agentic commerce is about to rewrite that completely um and we see it coming and we're preparing for it really well so this is my point that things are going to keep changing and that's okay that's okay to keep that there while it's okay to know that the fundamentals need to be true to. We're keeping both those truths alive.

25:04Selina Sykes: Absolutely. I mean, you just mentioned kind of working for the teams through all this. And I guess, you know, when we're talking about all this change, transformation can be exciting, can also be kind of unsettling. So how are you bringing, you know, the teams at Unilever through all this to enable them to, yeah, deliver the best for the company and for themselves?

25:23Niamh Carroll: I love that question, because I personally I'm so invested in the human side of this for our consumers the people that buy our brands I think it's so important to think about them and understand them as humans but also for our for our marketeers who are like you say dealing with all these different things that they're doing I think it comes back to kind of the basics of clarity you know you can't ask people to go through transformations without a clear north star doesn't mean that you know all the answers on day one and you can say that but you can give people a really clear north star and for us often that that's really focused around our business outcomes and like that's what everything is in aid of that we're not just doing change because we think it's sexy or cool we're doing it because we really see the business outcomes and we believe it then being able to give people things they can hang their hats on so that's why measurement and metrics are important because people can start to see progress that they're making and then as you say like just supporting people.

26:19Niamh Carroll: One of the things I love about Unilever is it's a really, it has such energized, positive people. And we all work together to support each other. There's a lot invested in making sure that our marketeers are exposed to like the best training, best capability. The fact that my team exists to really support them in keeping that up is how we're making sure that our employees are really at the cutting edge of driving this marketing transformation.

26:42Selina Sykes: For marketers who maybe are like, wow, this is all changing really quickly. What are those like brand fundamentals that they need to hold on to, you know, throughout this kind of transformative process.

26:52Niamh Carroll: Yeah, it's funny because every time I do a presentation to a new group in the business about this transformation, I start with a slide of like, before I talk about what's changing, let me tell you what's staying the same. Because I think you're right. I think it's important for people who maybe have this fear of like, oh gosh, am I becoming irrelevant because I don't know things. It's important for them to be grounded in these fundamentals that you were trained in are not changing and they're still really important. But it's also really important for younger marketers who maybe haven't been exposed to all of that, you know, relentlessly to be like, you need to have your fundamentals in place.

27:25Niamh Carroll: Like you can't just skip over some of that. You really need to understand these fundamentals. So it's important for everyone to be grounded in what's staying the same. For us, it's first of all, that brand clarity, like really clarity. Like what does your brand stand for? Like why is your brand useful in this world? Why is it relevant? What's its tone of voice? How is it going to show up in culture? like when you talk about something being on brand off brand what does that really mean when you talk about brand authenticity what does it mean when a creator might be talking about your brand what would be right and what would be wrong and that clarity allows for the consistency and then that clarity has to be based on a deep meaning and it really for us all comes down to human insight a deep deep insight that can stand the test of time and that can really bring value to people's lives.

28:11Niamh Carroll: So that stays the same. Those are the brand fundamentals. Plus, we are still trying to reach people, still trying to get people to discover our brands. They might discover it on an LLM, or they might discover it in a supermarket. That could happen. But they're still trying to discover our brands. We still got to persuade people and engage people on why they should even be interested in what our brand's doing. That still stays the same. Just might be that now you're doing it through a creator that you follow talking about it or you might be doing it through you know an affiliate TikTok shop trying to sell it to you and then there's the sale you know there are many different commerce channels now and we're operating across all of them but that point where someone actually decides to spend their hard-earned money on your brand we need to be able to close that we need to have the physical availability we still need to be able to make sure that the conversion is tracked and that we are getting that return on investment across those things stay the same and they really are the things that I learned when I started my marketing career and like I say how radically changing will radically change but that what is really really solid yeah

29:18Selina Sykes: it's interesting like on that note of like brand clarity I feel like sometimes you'll hear brands say oh like we just know it within our brand like you know what's in tone actually I think having to like explain it to you know an LLM or to get an a build an AI tool is like a really good test of

29:36Niamh Carroll: like can you articulate that and the thing about um ai if you look at ai discovery everyone's talking about generative engine optimization agentic commerce one thing that ai really prioritizes when it sources something is consistency if you're saying different things about your brand in different places across the web it's not going to serve up your brand in a recommendation or in a commerce opportunity so yeah you're right like it's really that's a really tough test is if you have brand consistency is using AI to feedback on it so it's another reason why I love AI because it really is a great mirror to some of the stuff that we should be doing

30:11Selina Sykes: yeah absolutely I mean we were talking at the start about transformation at Unilever not being kind of like a finite project but I guess when it comes to judging the overall success of the transformation project is there one kind of metric you will look at to be like this has been a success or is it a cultural thing? How are you going to, you know, just the success of this year after year?

30:35Niamh Carroll: I would say that even though the transformation is ongoing, we have passed it into like certain horizons to help manage this, you know, people's energy through it. And that's being really successful because then you keep giving people these points where they feel rewarded, where they feel that they've achieved it. I think that's important. So always across all horizons that we're working, it's competitive growth. Like that's what we're trying to drive, competitive growth. so that's really the only measure of success that we're focusing on but of course you know that you can't achieve that without the right talent without some of those early indicators along the way telling you that you're going in the right direction you know with some of these capabilities proving themselves to drive efficiencies for example so you can invest your money better there's all these other things behind it but ultimately the measure of success

31:24Selina Sykes: is competitive growth when you're you know adopting kind of new things at pace and you know we talked a bit about this earlier they're kind of transforming what while performing bit but when you're like launching into a new area or testing a new tool like how do you balance moving at pace versus like actually giving something a chance to bet in an organization when you're

31:44Niamh Carroll: making change quickly if that makes sense i've talked earlier about this like capability velocity diversity like it's speed but it's direction because if you just have speed and you're jumping from one thing to another you're right you never really know if something's going to work on or not and as i said one of the most difficult things not being distracted by all the different things so it helps us to have a really clear direction and to be very outcome focused because that stops us going oh this is a shiny new toy over here let's just go and do that um we're always keeping our eyes and ears open to everything that's happening.

32:20Niamh Carroll: But we are very mindful and measured about making sure that everything that we're doing, we're getting actual impact out of it. And we're not just doing it for, you know, the sake of it. It does mean that we have to be very disciplined in how we do experimentation. So we've really built a lot of skills in that area, which is fantastic, because that allows us to move at speed and learn, but also not give up on things before you've really, you know, got out the best impact from it.

32:44Selina Sykes: absolutely I think um we're kind of we've covered a lot on the transformation here Selena but I guess is there kind of any takeaways that you know you'd want like I say there's so much conversation I think people are really interested in what's happening at Unilever at the moment with the transformation are there kind of any takeaways that you'd want people to know about you know the direction of travel for you guys or maybe even like some misconceptions about what's

33:11Niamh Carroll: going on we've touched on it throughout the conversation but that we really feel that the fundamentals of of brand and building and marketing haven't changed that the future of marketing for us lies in creating brands with meaning brands that have ideas that people want to engage with people want to carry forward and share and that is what we've always done really successfully in Unilever why we have brands that are legacy brands that are brands that are global with such scale and what we're focusing on now is understanding that we want to continue creating that desire and continue creating that scale but we really are very clear on the ways of doing that are different to how they were in the past and we're moving very quickly to establish expertise and make sure that we're winning with those new models whether it's AI powered platforms whether it's creators whether it's different ways of doing media these are all things that we're really embracing and using to drive our competitive growth so true thank you so much for chatting

34:15Selina Sykes: us through it's been really interesting to hear more no thank you great conversation it's lovely chatting thank you for listening to this week's episode of the marketing meet podcast ahead of the next episode follow us on apple acast spotify or wherever you get your podcast

34:34Bye.