Bombshell Book From Diana's Brother, Oprah's USELESS Advice, and Lena Dunham's New Baby, with Maureen Callahan | Ep. 1401

27:05As a non-working royal, you know, that whatever the optics may display, just remember, like, this isn't real. They're pretending. They're trying to convince you of something. When you see that, though, which is very reminiscent of their quasi-pseudo-royal tour of Australia, the rope lines where nobody showed up, it's like if a tree falls. I know. You know? And honestly, I think they're trying to use these kids, their kids, to try to get closer to the couple that does matter. You know, like, if only they can forge a friendship between little Louis and Archie. If only they can make Princess Charlotte feel like an older sister to Lilibet, they're back in.

27:46Next Gen is back in Windsor Castle and at Balmoral and locked in for when that generation ascends to power. Or perhaps even before, because when Prince William becomes king, you know, George is going to be right on his heels. And the Next Gen could be there and therefore Harry and Meghan can be there. I really think that's what they're planning. I think that's what they're hoping for, absolutely. I just think William and Catherine are far too shrewd to fall for it, especially if the reports are true that Harry and Meghan are allying themselves with Charles Spencer. Yeah. So page six, this is just so the audience knows, page six says that they are.

28:26Like they actually reported that and said, we are reporting that Prince Harry was told about and knows, was given basically an advance peak at the allegations. The Telegraph says, no, it's not true. So there was a bit of a, I don't know where all this was, but it was in my packet someplace. The Telegraph reported, no, he knew about the book, but he didn't know about the specific claims. And I think that's what the Daily Mail reported too. So there's a bit of a split in the reporting about whether Harry knew. I believe he knew. He was just over there. They were all over the Earl's estate taking pictures near Diana's grave, as you and I have discussed.

29:05There's no way he didn't tell them, don't worry. I got this. Yes, there's also no way they're there. I mean, you know this, you've written a memoir, Doug writes books. They were there two months before the book's publication date, which I believe is the 22nd of September. You have bound galleys, if not fully finished physical copies of the book. You don't think there were copies of that book laying around all four? You don't think that Harry got like a sneak peek because they're allying themselves. Harry, I want you to be okay with this. I don't want you to be shocked by anything. We need to stay on each other's good side, right?

29:44Well, especially because there's no way he's on the good side of Prince William. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And William will never have anything to do with him after this. He seems kind of like a hot mess in his own regard. Carlos, he's had three marriages. I think he's on his fourth. I was just going to say, I think he might be on number four. So he's had three divorces. My team did pull some information on the divorces, which I did. I'm not going to lie. I found it kind of interesting. Hold on a second. Let me see if I can find it. Yeah, here we go. He's fathered seven children across three marriages and now is on number four.

30:18The first one was to Victoria Lockwood, 89 to 97 via Time magazine. Their divorce became extremely contentious. Lockwood, the ex, characterized him as a serial adulterer and alleged that his first affair began less than six months after their wedding. Charming. Lockwood's lawyers alleged that Spencer, wait until you hear this, had as many as 12 affairs during the marriage. Spencer denied that allegation and and he disputed that there had been anything approaching 12 with his legal side arguing that her lawyers could identify only a few. Oh, OK. Oh, that changes everything. OK. 100%. Then there was Caroline Freud from 2001 to 2007 via the London Times standard.

31:02This divorce is described as being granted on the basis of Spencer's, quote, unreasonable behavior. Okay. Patterns repeat themselves. That's all I'll say. Then there was Karen Gordon, 2011 to 2025 via the UK Times and the Daily Mail. Gordon claims her now ex-husband had an affair and also ended their marriage by text message. The Earl denied both those claims. Here's what he said. This was an absurd attempt to blacken my name. Karen ended the marriage after endless threats to do so over the years. In early March, she asked me to confirm the end of the marriage in a text, and my reply was a simple acceptance of her decision.

31:36Okay, so that's that. But then, here's another thing. There was a documentary made. It's called The Immediate Aftermath of Diana's Death, Seven Days That Shook the World, Shook the World by the Real Royal. And what they allege is that Tony Blair aides and palace officials have confirmed to them that Carlos, AKA Earl Charles Spencer, wanted to walk behind Diana's coffin alone. Ooh. Alone. And that he and Diana were not speaking at the time of her death. She wanted to live in a cottage at Althorpe, but he refused. He didn't want the press there. So they had had a falling out. And yet, so he claims in his book that he was outraged, Maureen, outraged, that they were going to have the young prince's walk behind Diana's coffin.

32:23And what this documentary reports is that what he was really upset about was he wanted to be the one walking there by himself. All of this tracks. It's amazing. By the way, the allegation about Carlos ending the third marriage via text message, I was just reading a profile of Jerry Hall in The Guardian or The Telegraph this weekend, and she said this is how Rupert Murdoch, her report ended the marriage it was a text message she was not expecting megan the text message said we've had some good times but i have to move on now

33:05i died i was like that totally try it doesn't make me a bad person if i say it's kind of a power move yeah she clearly married him for his money like and he married her for her beauty yeah yeah it's transactional like why should i feel bad for her i wasn't a love relationship by the way i have had dinner with the two of them it was not a love relationship fair enough i do think there's a there's a better like just in out of self-interest you want it to maybe go smoothly maybe not have her call mc jagger and like get the house swept for bugs you don't care planted I love it. That's the beauty of being a Rupert Murdoch or like a titan, a true titan of industry across continental, right?

33:44Like you're basically like everyone can fuck off. I'm me. I don't, I'm not saying it's always great. I'm just saying like, imagine being that person where you're just kind of like, bye now, I'm done. But it's exactly why I believe the reports in the divorce where he said, you cannot talk to the writers of succession because this is something the Brian Cox character would do. Oh, yes. And that the average person watching at home would be like, really? Yes. Would somebody really be that heartless? Like, yes, they would. They could. Did I tell you that I used to live next door to Brian Cox? No. Yes.

34:15It's actually very funny. When Doug and I, when I first moved to New York the second time as a journalist, I moved, I lived here for a few years when I was a lawyer. And then Roger made me an anchor. I'd been working in the DC Bureau. He moved me up to New York to launch America's Newsroom with Bill Hemmer. Oh, wow. So that was 2007, January of 07. And I rented a little, like the second floor of one of those Chelsea brownstones. Oh, nice. It was so cute. And on the second floor next to me, in the brownstone right next to me, was Brian Cox, who had starred in Braveheart. You know, he'd been in some movies, but it was pre-succession.

34:55You know, his career has been so revived and he's so talented. But he and his wife were my neighbor. And then Doug, when we got married, moved in. And the four of us saw each other quite a bit. We spent Halloweens out in front of our little brownstones because that neighborhood was so popular for Halloween. It's insane. The kids are like 20 deep. You just start like throwing it at them. And we would have cheese and crackers and wine out in front of our Chelsea Brownstones every Halloween. Oh, that's so lovely. I know. He was actually such a sweet guy. He had a temper, I'm not going to lie, but he was always lovely to us.

35:29Oh, what an interesting little factoid. Yeah. I love that. So, yeah. So, actually, so we were talking about, okay, Carlos, the divorces, number four. Oh, the documentary and Carlos wanting to walk alone. That completely tracks. And, you know, this whole thing is just, I truly believe they were not on good terms when Diana died because she would have had to know that her brother would have been capable of something like this. You know, look at the heartless way he treated every single wife. Apparently, most of his children, the daughters at least, don't speak to him. Yeah. And, like, to tell her she can't live in that little cottage on the family estate?

36:11Like, because the press might come. First of all, it doesn't seem like the press can have access. to Altharp without his permission. And second of all, that's exactly why she needed to be there, right? Like to get away from that when she wanted to be away from that. A loving brother would have said, sure, of course, let me help you out. I'll protect you. But that does invite a closer look at what he is saying in this book about the funeral and the boys walking, because it is interesting. He, I mean, he is unsparing in this. Again, this isn't officially out. It's just the Daily Mail has gotten an exclusive excerpt.

36:50Okay, and this is in part what he writes. I was chosen to be the point of contact for my family when it came to Diana's funeral arrangements. Once it was correctly decided, after my family appreciated the public need for it, that Diana's service should be a full-blown national ceremony, Buckingham Palace and Prince Charles' offices felt entitled to take the lead. these little buzzwords. Diana remained theirs in Buckingham Palace's eyes, even in death. Her family, despite her divorce, were simply expected to fall in line with any royal decisions. It is at moments like this that even the most ardent monarchist finds that questions about arrogance and entitlement arise.

37:34Love the passive voice, right? Now we've gotten entitled, arrogant, and entitled again. My sisters knew that Diana had always wanted Mozart's requiem to be played for her after death. When I passed it on, it was rejected. They said that this could not be played at a Church of England funeral. I later found out that was not the case, the first of several untruths that the authorities would push my way. There was no thought of anyone in the royal family talking to me directly, as was usual. Such a delicate and personal interaction was farmed out to a courtier. Then he talks about how this Colonel Ross guy was his, you know, handler.

38:09He seemed about to hang up on one of our phone calls when he added, oh, another thing. It's been decided that the two young princes will walk behind the princess's coffin. Well, that's not going to happen. I can't do a British accent. I can kind of do Indian. I almost did Asian the other day when we talked about the orchid Asian spa and Bill Belichick, but I chose not to. I'm not. I'm sorry. Not Bill Belichick, Robert Crabb. Forgive me, Bill. Anywho. Yeah, it's better not to. Okay, so, uh, that's, he says, well, that's not going to happen. Uh, it was a suggestion that struck me as utterly barbaric and quite out of the question.

38:48By this stage, I had learned that Diana had left me as her son's guardian. This was a role without legal function while the other parent lived. I knew she would never have wanted her boy to undertake such a public ordeal. Well, the Prince of Wales says it is, Ross repeated. No, I said, I'm afraid it's not happening. Diana would never have wanted to put them through anything so ghastly. Then Charles allegedly called him. I gather you've got a problem with the funeral arrangements, he said testily. No, I don't think so, I said. My mind on the structure of the service. But I gather you've said you don't want William and Harry to walk behind Diana's coffin.

39:19Well, of course not, sir. Diana would never have wanted that. But I did it at Lord Montbatten's funeral. But you were 30, sir, and he wasn't your mother. He went nuts, writes Carlos. That's the problem with your family. They've got no bloody sense of duty. Before descending into a general rage. And that's when he allegedly dropped the line. will forget her soon enough. Okay. I believe there probably was a dispute over William and Harry walking behind that casket because this became actually a public reaction where many people were like, what in the actual F? Like who would do that to these boys?

39:55And am I wrong? Didn't Harry complain about it in spare? I think he wrote about it in an unfavorable way. Like he didn't want to do it. And Earl, Carlos, claims he was later told that the reason he allowed it, he, Carlos, allowed it to happen was that he was then later told the boys want to do it. It's interesting. Harry has said he's spoken about, I think, multiple times that that is among the defining traumas, not just Diana's death, but being made to walk behind the coffin. Notice William's never spoken about that. um apparently also prince philip was very very concerned about the boys and had said if if you want to do it i will walk with you your grandpa um i find it remarkable that charles as you were just discussing carlos rather rejected coldly diana's request to live at Althorpe that summer and keep a low profile given his extremely self-serving bombastic eulogy at her service, which the royal family allowed him to do.

41:05They clearly did not screen his eulogy in which he called her Diana compared to the most hunted Greek goddess after which she was named. Okay, so the hunted, the preyed upon, well, who could have helped her out in that scenario when she was feeling so hunted? Maybe you. And then he went on to say that no matter what the royals intended for William and Harry, he alone was going to make sure they were raised in the way Diana intended. And then outside that funeral, remember the thousands of Britons who leapt to their feet and cheered at Charles's eulogy. Carlos's. Carlos's. You know, what a smack in the face to the royals.

41:41And what it was really doing was the most vulnerable people were the children, William and Harry. And already you're using the funeral of their mother, the globally broadcast funeral, to engage in a proxy war over who has domain over them. To bash their father and their grandmother, who clearly are going to raise them, not you, Carlos. So why do this to them other than to make yourself look like an Avenger, which he wasn't actually. He wasn't. That's not what happened. He did not raise those boys. In fact, by most accounts, King Charles, then Prince Charles, was actually quite a loving father, maybe not as present as, you know, a normal dad would be.

42:22But even when you hear him talk about his sons, it's always so sweet. Like the way some of the conversations were counted in spare, to me, paint the picture of a father who is loving, constantly calling him, you know, very darling. Like he's affectionate toward him as far as like the royals go. and I actually was favorably impressed with some of the stories about Charles as a dad, especially after Diana was gone. Here is some of that eulogy that was so, so famous and so well watched at the time. It is a point to remember that of all the ironies about Diana, perhaps the greatest was this. A girl given the name of the ancient goddess of hunting was in the end, the most hunted person of the modern age.

43:07She would want us today to pledge ourselves to protecting her beloved boys, William and Harry, from a similar fate. And I do this here, Diana, on your behalf. We will not allow them to suffer the anguish that used regularly to drive you to tearful despair. And beyond that, on behalf of your mother and sisters, I pledge that we, your blood family, will do all we can to continue the imaginative and loving way in which you are steering these two exceptional young men so that their souls are not simply immersed by duty and tradition but can sing openly as you planned. We fully respect the heritage into which they have both been born and will always respect and encourage them in their royal role.

43:53But we, like you, recognise the need for them to experience as many different aspects of life as possible to arm them spiritually and emotionally for the years ahead. I know you would have expected nothing less from us. Your blood family. I mean, that's back to the Tom Bowers comment of he didn't just mean that in terms of we, Diana, like the people who, your family of origin. Those Spencers think they're above. the Mountbatten-Windsors, a belief he's reportedly held to this day. And he thinks even though they're, you know, they are literally the royal family, that he's got something over it. He knows better.

44:40There's an arrogance about this guy that I'm sure King Charles finds totally and completely insufferable. Oh, completely. I mean, again, that was grandstanding. That speech was not in service of his sister. It was in service of himself. It was not in service of his nephews. It was in service of himself. If he truly had been appointed their guardian by Diana, which I find difficult to believe. Me too, yeah. His first priority, you would think, would be just the care and consolation of those children, and you would want it to be as private as possible. And if you did harbor that amount of anger and resentment, you would probably think it wise not to speak at that funeral.

45:20Because your role as caregiver, it sounds like what she was saying was, if both my husband and I die, I would like him to take custody of the boys, but that didn't happen. Only Diana died. And therefore, that bequeath of power is null and void and absolutely meaningless. And now the only meaningful role you will play in those boys' lives will be if King Charles allows it. than Prince. Like he's their dad. Sorry, that trumps uncle every day of the week. And so why would you get up there and intentionally antagonize the father if you actually did intend to play a meaningful role in the boy's life?

45:57It doesn't make sense, right? No, I don't think this is a good guy. I really don't. I think, so why is he doing this? All right. So it could be a play for money. I mean, I've got, I've got some sources telling me that he is short on cash and may need the dough. Or it could be that plus some attempt to ingratiate himself with Harry and Meghan, like doing them a solid. You know, he does still see himself as an Avenger. He clearly can't stand Charles. And so this book timed at this moment, just as Harry comes back. I don't know, I mean, here's Tom Bowers. He was actually given an interview on this, this week on GB News.

46:37Stop four. He's not only selling a book, but he's also undoubtedly formed an alliance with Harry and with the Duchess to somehow damage the king. I mean, when I wrote my book about Charles, the rebel king and rebel prince, I had impeccable sources in Balmoral and all the real thing. And I called some of them today and all of them united in saying that Charles was in real grief. The idea that he would even say rest assured that bit. But the idea was giddily elated. It's complete rubbish. The man was absolutely smitten. He was horrified. I mean, he was frozen. I think it's money troubles, personal troubles.

47:15He's been in therapy. He's not feeling very well. And you've got to remember, it's the same publisher as did Harry's book. And they want juice for all the money they've given him. They want headlines, which they've got. But I think it's more serious than that. I said here, I think two weeks ago when I was here, that the return of Harry and Meghan is heading towards a crisis. They haven't declared why they're here. They haven't declared how long they're going to stay. Their object is not only to ingratiate themselves with the Robb family, but cause trouble. And there's no doubt that Harry knew that Spencer was going to bring out this book.

47:50So it's a pincer movement. He's very good, this Tom Bowers. And I tend to believe him. The actual palace response, And it's kind of interesting. Charles tried to pull the recollections may vary that the queen put out after Meghan and Harry tried to tell Oprah that everybody's a racist in the family. They put out in a highly unusual move a written statement as follows. While we do not comment on books as a matter of principle, His Majesty is mindful that the pain of fraternal grief can cloud reason, affect judgment, and color memory in ways others do not recognize, even many years after such a loss.

48:36I would have said maybe tighten it up a little. I would have said make a declarative definitive no. Didn't happen if you're going to respond. I do think that both things can be true, right? In the immediate, the grief, the rage, a death like that, that is that sudden and violent and premature, you can experience a lot of rage at the unfairness of it, if not for yourself, at least for your children. And you've got this asshole calling you every five minutes going, I'm running the show. Yeah. And you're not. I'll be walking behind the cast. Hey, I'm the future king. Carlos. It's up to me, Carlos.

49:13Settle down. I love it that her nickname for Charles Spencer was kind of like a mid-level drug dealer, like Carlos, you know? It seems to track. It seems to track. So I believe that can be true and that Charles would have been like, you know what? This problem's done with for now. I've got a bunch of other problems on my plate. But it's also not to be forgotten that Charles went to the morgue in France and identified Diana's body. and Charles brought her home. I believe this was in contravention of the Queen's wishes because Diana was no longer HRH. And he said, I'm going to escort her body back home.

49:53And he looked shattered. There is still news footage that exists. He looked shattered. So both things can be true, I think. I'm sure his, you know, watching his sons in that much pain would have, I mean, you'd have to be inhuman not to respond to that. And Princess Diana was given the full royal funeral and she had the standard bearing colors and flag on her casket. And so the royal family did ultimately do right by her. But this was, you know, right around the time when people are, there was backlash against the queen because she had stripped her of the HREH after the divorce. He reports in this book that the queen offered him, Carlos, right after Diana died saying, we'll give it back.

50:36Like, do you think she'd want it? Like, we'll posthumously. Oh, wow. will allow her to have her HRH back in that he was like, absolutely not. I knew at a visceral level she would never want this. So he said no. And then there's a couple of other claims that I do want to talk to, speak to. First, we're going to take a quick break. Don't go away. Got more with Maureen after this. When it comes to laundry, there's no reason clothes have to smell like basic detergent. Laundry sauce take things up a level with premium scented laundry pods featuring fragrances made by top perfumers. Scents like Himalayan cashmere and Australian sandalwood can leave clothes smelling fresh and elevated all the way until the next laundry day.

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51:55Support our show and tell them we sent you. It's time to make laundry day the best day of the week. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Haley Bailey. Okay, I need to tell you about something. I just got YouTube Premium. It's got tons of awesome features like offline downloads so I can download my favorite videos before I travel and watch them whenever I don't have Wi-Fi because we all know airplane Wi-Fi is the worst. I get ad-free, I get backroom play, and there's like a ton more in there. You should try it. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Try it now for two months free at youtube.com slash premium.

52:26Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. That's a mouthful. You know that feeling. Too many updates? Too many meetings? Too many things falling through the cracks? Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform designed from the ground up for people and agents to work side by side and deliver more together. Drafting the brief, flagging risks, running a competitive scan, your agent can do it all. And the best part? Anyone can build one. Even you. Try it. Create your first Monday agent today at Monday.com.

53:04We are back with Maureen Callahan. She is host of the hit show, The Nerve, with Maureen Callahan. Go and find it on YouTube and all podcast platforms, and you really should do that. I know I just say that like rote, but you genuinely should follow. As we go into the weekend, this is the perfect time to hit follow and consume. Last night's The Nerve, which was amazing. And tonight, we here on the MK Channel have a special for you. This is actually the conclusion of our MK Confidential series on Casey Anthony. And for now, it's the conclusion of the series. It was an eight-week series. We've done eight different cases.

53:40It's been a ton of work for the MK production team, and I'm very grateful to them for a wonderful job. We are going to be continuing MK Confidential in a different form after this wonderful team gets a little bit of a rest. Further updates to follow on that. But don't miss tonight's season finale. Last night we dove into her defense's case and the focus on the family dynamics. That Anthony family definitely had some serious issues. And her defense lawyer made them even larger and you could argue faker than reality would justify. And we began with the explosive opening statement from attorney Jose Baez.

54:24Here's some of that. Jose Baez starts with George. This family must keep its secrets quiet. And it all began when Casey was eight years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately. And it escalated and it escalated. What does a sex abuse survivor look like? They wear a scarlet letter. They have a tattoo on their forehead. We could all be sitting next to a person who's a sex abuse survivor and never even know it. These things are kept quiet. And these ugly secrets slowly will come out through this trial. No such thing will come into evidence in this case. But the character assassination of George Anthony has begun.

55:23And it's so juicy. The whole case is so juicy. There is like just so much to dissect from a legal standpoint. And of course, we all know how it ended. But we've got a lot of new information around why the jury actually found as it did. New to me, I should say. It's been out there, but I hadn't taken a hard look at this case in a long time. So we reveal the verdict in tonight's episode and the fallout from it. Find it on the Megan Kelly YouTube channel and on all podcast feeds. It's right on our same podcast feed as you get this show. That Casey Anthony thing is just such a, she's out there living her life right now.

56:00She's free, free as a bird. It's wild. I mean, it was hard to not think of her as the Lindsay Clancy jury was deliberating. Yes. You know? At least her jurors didn't have the level of sanctimony that these jurors have. Like their little I am woman, hear me roar routine in Lindsay Clancy. It's a lot, you know. Let's spend some time on that before we go back to Earl because I do have a couple more things on Carlos. But here is on the Lindsay Clancy front, we actually do have a little bit of news, which is Patrick Clancy, the husband, now ex, of Lindsay Clancy is going to be on 60 Minutes this Sunday night.

56:38and he's going on with his wife, his new wife, which actually will be kind of fascinating. I'm kind of interested to hear what she sounds like. Probably won't watch it. I'm not going to lie. I'm probably just going to get the highlights from my team. But honestly, 60 Minutes, I can't stand them. But here's in a preview clip. They put this out to promote it. He talks about how he still talks, in quotes, to his children, SOT8. In this exclusive interview, we see a different side of Patrick Clancy. For much of his testimony, he appeared stoic. But now we're hearing an emotional and raw account of what this all has been like for him.

57:17In his first television interview since the deaths of his three children, Patrick Clancy tells 60 Minutes he still leans on them for support. I talk to them. What do you say? Help me. all the time. The trial captivated the nation, but also put Patrick Clancy at the center of online conspiracy theories, accusing him of being involved in the killings. And in this exclusive interview, 60 Minutes asked him about those online conspiracy theories. He called them deeply harmful to the legacy of his children and a distraction to perinatal mental hell. Oh boy. I mean, it's ridiculous that he killed those kids.

58:02She's admitting she killed the kids. No one's disputing. She killed the kids other than like a certain online contingent, like Lisa Renna, who decided to post about this on Insta. But there is some blame for Patrick Clancy. I mean, there's some, but just a man, I have, I have tons of compassion for the man, but when your spouse says, I'm thinking about hurting the children, there should be no moments alone between that spouse and the children until medical professionals have given her, or if it's a him, the all clear and say, tell you that there's absolutely nothing to worry about. Like, I'm sure that's something he's going to have to live with for the rest of his life.

58:41Well, you know, I read the New Yorker did a profile of him, I think in 2024. And in it, he said that at one point he did ask Lindsay, is that why you sent me out of the house? so you would have time to kill them. That deliberate ask, he was working that day in the basement, in his home office. It was in the basement. And part of the reason I've never been able to believe, I actually, I came to this case late. I didn't even really want to know. I know, it's so dark. It's so dark. When it involves small children like that, like I'd rather not know, but my job being what it is, we have to know. and I think if you are truly thinking that you are on the verge of harming your children and your husband is working from home, perhaps because he's worried you might harm the children and it's time for dinner, you order Grubhub.

59:36You order a pizza. You don't send your husband out on a multi-pronged run of errands. All of that said, my question is, and I don't mean this in a way that is without compassion, I don't quite, I can't quite figure out what Patrick Clancy is doing here. Why is he going on a media tour? Why is he going on 60 Minutes? Why is his wife joining him? Yeah. Is a book deal next? Are we going to sign with Netflix for a sit down? Like we live in this sort of very ghoulish culture where, I mean, you look at someone like Amanda Knox, who has made a career off of being an accused murderess. she doesn't seem to like she's doing she's out doing a stand-up routine which is basically like hey do you think i did it oh it's really weird when everybody thinks you like murdered your roommate in cold blood and the family of meredith kircher has begged and pleaded with her to stop she performed at the fringe festival at edinburgh very recently and there was a petition to have her removed and she went ahead and did it she does all manner of podcasts and she's done this podcast Has she?

1:00:43Yeah. Oh, wait, I did hear that. I did hear that. Yes. I don't know. I feel bad for Amanda Knox because I don't think she killed Meredith Kircher. And she almost had her whole life ruined by that prosecutor, Magnini, in Florence, who there's a whole backstory about him in connection with this serial killer called the Monster of Florence, where he did not behave well. But I think she's trying to just like deal with the ongoing trauma of having been accused of this crime, found guilty of this crime, right? There was a verdict, I'm just trying to remember, spent a while against her that then got reversed and she spent, you know, two years in prison, in an Italian prison?

1:01:22But whatever, Amanda, I know you have a different POV on it. But I see your point. Like, why is he doing this? Because who's he trying to convince? The conspiracy theorists, whatever you call them, Lisa Rinna, she's not going to be convinced. Those conspiracy theorists will never be convinced. Never. So like, what do you, is this an image rehab for you? Is it for people like you and me who are like, Why did you leave her alone with the kids? Why when she said, I'm thinking about harming the children, did she ever have another minute alone with them? Like I truly have that question. I hope Ross Duthot, whatever, however you pronounce that last name, says it.

1:01:53Is that who's conducting that interview? Yeah. Douth it. Yeah. Why would they give it to someone with very minimal broadcast TV experience? Because she wants to make him a star. She's going to be the one who revamps 60 Minutes. In the same way she thinks she's great on the air. I guess she wants us to believe Ross is too. We'll see about that. I don't know. Here's another one because he sat down with a wife too. And I am kind of curious about, I don't know. Can you just imagine the conversations those two have had about, you know, everything that happened with the first wife? I can't. Her name is Rachel Dannis.

1:02:28She's a doctor. Is she a medical doctor or is she a Jill Biden doctor? She's a real one. Oh, she's an actual doctor. Oh, she's a fertility doctor. Okay, here they are. I don't understand how the story has been so twisted, but I would hope people know that Pat is, as I said before, the most selfless father and supportive partner. And I was just a girl that met a guy running in Central Park on a really cold Saturday. Oh, Lord. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Okay. First of all, she looks a little like Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I was thinking the same thing. The white collar against the black, and her face looks like a young RBG, and a little like Lindsay Clancy.

1:03:22No makeup, hair pulled back, very bare and austere in our self-presentation. I looked at that, and I was like, that woman hired a stylist. That woman has a publicist or a crisis manager who worked with them as to how they were going to come across on their first joint national broadcast interview. Secondly, I realize how cynical this will sound, Megan, but we are in a cynical age. And we're us. And we're us. Fair enough. She said, I'm just a girl who met a boy jogging in Central Park. It was Julia Roberts. Thank you in Notting Hill. I'm just a girl standing in front of a boy asking him to love her.

1:04:09There are dead children involved, but it's kind of a rom-com. We met Keith in Central Park. What is going on? Like my brain matter is exploding. Oh, you're right. That was such a weird line. I didn't see the soundbite before. We just played it and listened to it together. What was that? That's PR? They needed more advising. Much more advising. I mean, I would just be keeping my mouth shut. I would be moving to the middle of the country. I might be using my maiden name. You're not going to hear from me. You're not going to hear from me. I don't understand why there is a publicity juggernaut. It's not like he's falsely accused and is about to stand trial.

1:04:47It's not like he's fighting for his life. This is pretty much done. And I also have to say, why in all the promos around this are they referring to her as Dr. Rachel Dennis? I mean, truly, I get that she's an MD. how is that like relevant in the context of this? Like you're sitting down. The only reason we have any fucking interest in you is because you're married to this guy. We don't care about your medical credentials. No one's here is asking for your expertise because this is a legal case and we need you to weigh in on something testified to like that too is like, let me tell you, I'm someone you should respect and, you know, look up to, which in this context feels weird.

1:05:27It just feels weird. If I were the new wife, I think I'd just be going by my name without my honorarium. And I wouldn't be doing this interview. I wouldn't either. And also, this feels—they are very aware of the image they're trying to project. If you look at her in her black and white—okay, she's wearing black and white. So we're saying— Like a priest collar. A priest collar. A judicial collar, right? Yes, yes. Like, I understand right from wrong there's a binary here, and I'm adjudicating this, okay? I'm, I'm, and she's sitting up. She's very, she's sitting up straight. He's next to her looking like a schlub.

1:06:03He's wearing a blue Oxford shirt. That's a little too big for him. He's sitting slouched like this while she's talking. Like they are, they're trying to tell us something and it's, it's not natural is what I'm saying. He needs one more button. He needs one more button. I guarantee you there's a publicist off cam who would have said, had this been the intended visual, sit up straight, Patrick. Project some confidence. Project some belief in yourself. Yes. Why are you showing us chest as the grieving father of the three children? What the fuck is that? Honestly, I don't get it. Is he wearing? No, there's no jewelry.

1:06:42At least we were spared that. It doesn't seem like there's any hair either, which is, that's good. We didn't need to see that either. It's very strange. Okay, let's get back to just a couple more things on the Carlos. Carlos Danger. I keep wanting to say Carlos Danger, which is Anthony Wiener. But no, he pointed out a couple of things about Diana that are interesting in here that I just wanted to raise. First, he points out that on the day that she was extremely bulimic and on the day of her wedding, she'd been in the throes of her eating disorder for five months, brought on by her engagement photos, where he says that at 10 and a half stone, her five foot 10 frame looked heavier than she wanted it to.

1:07:26Look, this is her and her engagement photos. Can we put those out on the board? Look at her. She looks beautiful, right? I mean, of course, that's the nature of bulimia is you don't see what everybody else sees. But apparently she thought she was too fat here. And he, Carlos, includes in the book, quote, Quote, her insecurity was increased a few days after the engagement announcement when Prince Charles had squeezed her waist and said, quote, oh, a bit chubby here, aren't we? Oh, my God. I do think that detail also resides in Andrew Morton's book, Diana, Her True Story. Really? I think Carlos may have lifted some stuff from previous published materials.

1:08:08Oh, oh, oh. I do. He says she found it devastating. dating. She would later share with me that her waist shrank from a 29 to a 23 and a half between her engagement and her marriage. Her weight loss had returned with vengeance after she gave birth to William. Diana would later tell me she'd been fine in the days immediately after the birth, but then suddenly began to feel isolated and trapped. She believed that her husband was sometimes too busy for her and on other occasions that he was critical. She told me he had married 20-year-old but seemed always to wish she was nearer to 35 in character and outlook.

1:08:42Well, duh. I mean, he was 32. So I'm sure he did wish that. Then here's the thing. I am convinced, he writes, that Diana had ADHD and that as part of that condition, she suffered from rejection-sensitive dysphoria. And he writes, quote, as do I. Okay, hold on. Buckle up. This is an intense emotional pain in the face of others' rejection or criticism, which amplified her wounded response to her husband's suggestions. Rejection-sensitive dysphoria. Intense emotional pain in the face of others' rejection or criticism. This, I think there's a British word for it. I believe it's puppycock. Okay, this is funny.

1:09:31I had the exact same response when I read that. rejection, whatever, dysphoria, blah, blah, blah. And then I thought about it for a second and I was like, oh no, no, no. That's just part and parcel of being a borderline. Right? But it's like, it's got a special name now. We've got some ornamentation on it. It sounds a little flashy. Oh, very good. But that's what that is. It goes back into your earlier diagnosis. Yeah, that's the earlier diagnosis. It's like you perceive the slightest rejection and your reaction is like a hundred times what it really warrants. She was in the wrong line of work.

1:10:01She was in the wrong, but it also explains the need for like global adulation, right? Like she had that deep need. She really, really needed it in a way that you see like Catherine Princess of Wales seems to not. Doesn't. She does the job and she's very, very good at it. But you don't sense that her identity lives or dies on being adored by the public. I wonder if Megan has this too, rejection sensitive dysphoria, because anybody who says something negative about her winds up in the receiving end of a lawsuit. or getting bashed on Oprah or in her husband's book. You know, I don't know. But that seems like a very common thing to dislike rejection and criticism.

1:10:45Like, you don't have to have a disorder in order to feel that way. It usually hurts. No one particularly likes it, as far as I know. Okay, wait, there was one other thing that I wanted to mention. oh that I got to it that the queen had offered to restore the HRH title okay so that's the end of those two good luck to them and when the book actually hits we'll be following it now you mentioned at the beginning of the segment on them this nonsense with this couple over in the cult swalds who pulled their kids from school two days into the term allegedly because of the security situation created by the traffic they were like sitting ducks Maureen sitting ducks in their convoy, which now we know was the Sussexes in one car and the security team in another, and they got separated.

1:11:36And of course, Prince Harry is completely feckless. Now, standing the fact that he served in the military and felt like he couldn't protect his kids, I guess, God forbid somebody had done something to them. But now there's reporting in the Daily Mail that, Daily Beast, I should say, that parents at that school, many of them believe this whole thing was a ploy. It was a ploy to improve their bid for taxpayer funded security that these two knew very well that it like literally nobody who is in this area doesn't know. Sorry for that weird sort of double negative that the traffic is absolutely oppressive.

1:12:16Here was the quote from one. Now, literally all people talk about is the traffic in Oxford. Parents spend their time dreaming up strategies to beat it. One favorite is to get up at 545, drive in, and go and sit in a coffee shop for an hour and have breakfast and do homework there. Another one said this was obviously going to happen. They didn't know that there was traffic in Oxford. This is all just a ploy to get security. And on and on it goes. I think that's right. Dan Wooten suggested the same, that this is all part of their plot, like their alleged imaginary security problems to get full-time taxpayer-funded bodyguards, which will make them feel important.

1:13:00Exactly. If I am that worried that my children are top terror threats, and if I am the perfectionist that we have long been told Meghan Markle is, you know, firing off emails at 5 a.m. to palace staff who just can't keep up with the perfectionist duchess, I would be consulting Waze, plan a drive on Waze. How long will it take? What are the traffic patterns? If I'm moving to a remote rural location, which is akin to a place I spend a lot of time in on Long Island, where there is one main road in and one main road out, it is a two-lane road. That's it. If you get stuck in traffic, you're stuck. You're done.

1:13:41Everybody knows. That's exactly right. Everybody who lives there knows exactly how it is. how you navigate the back roads. If they are that concerned, why have they not invested some of their Netflix money in hiring Exmosad in purchasing a bulletproof vehicle, doing the practical things that one would do? I'm sure they can consult with the finest minds in global security. It's true. This is all a ploy. This is, oh, you won't give it to me? You won't give it to my wife? How about you, your grandchildren are in mortal danger. What's wrong with you? Can't you find some compassion in your heart? Like, that's all this is.

1:14:16They just, they're going to use anything they can. And now they're using the children and they're going to bank on very few voices in the media wanting to accuse people because it's a very low thing to do of using their own children as pawns. But like you just said, we're us. So I'm going to do it. Yes, yes. Well, here's the other thing. You would not be dropping videos with all the clues necessary to show where you live on the internet. I mean, it took people about two minutes to figure out exactly where they were and where they were sending the children to school. If you really didn't want the public to know where your kids went to school, you would make sure that you hadn't done any of that.

1:14:56That the only way it would get out is by a paparazzi, paparazzo stalking you and unethically publishing that. But that's not what happened. She kept dropping these videos where everybody's like, oh, I recognize that. Yeah, I recognize that too. Like everybody knew. She clearly doesn't care. She wants to feel important. That's what this is. And they want the British taxpayers to flood them with the royal escort so that they don't have to follow the traffic laws, so that they can show up everywhere with heavily armed bodyguards. You know, that's the same couple in the Netflix special who tried to pretend that the guy in the Vespa was like an Al-Qaeda cell.

1:15:36Hang tight. Hang tight. We're almost there. That was amazing. Safety first. Oh, seatbelt to a man who lost his mother without a seatbelt on. Oh, God. It's true. So anyway, the problems for the royal family continue to grow. We are still a couple of months out, but the midterms are fast approaching. And make no mistake, if the house flips, and it's likely to, it is a big deal for our economy. That uncertainty is one of the many reasons to consider diversifying with gold from Birch Gold Group. The question really, if you're not in gold, is why not at this point? In the three months leading up to the 2024 presidential election, the price of gold jumped over 12%.

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1:19:14Tennessee 2012. Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, real clear politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

1:19:52Two of our favorites got together, Maureen, and this is a job for you and me. Oprah went on Mel Robbins. I mean, they did it for us. They had to have done it. Like, thank you, thank you, thank you. I don't talk about Mel Robbins, but I love when you do because she's insufferable. Honestly, she's like, her fake self-help is a lot, a lot to digest. And as you point out, like she has no absolute, absolutely no training. She's got no special qualifications to give any of this. And it is, she's an empty vessel. Like, let them, let them. There she is. Oh, look at this. This is the picture from her book, right?

1:20:27Oh, and she uses it for her podcast too. Oh my God. The modern day beatific saint in Warby Parker. What is that? God is giving me the answers directly. Come to me. So she thinks she's the new Oprah. And she had on the actual Oprah. And this is so on brand and it's so wonderful. Listen to Oprah. This is, you should know, four minutes into the interview. Four minutes in, stop 14. I believe that I've had just the most blessed life on earth. I just can't get over how blessed I have been in my life. I can't get over it. I marvel at what God and the life forces have done for me. I marvel at that. But when I think about it now, from the point of view of 72, I realized that what I have acquired is not as magnificent or extraordinary as who I have become.

1:21:43And I know that the world looks at what I have acquired, but it's who I have become. And I recognize that the work to become myself is the same work and ability that everybody has to become the most of themselves. And I am most proud of the woman that I have become.

1:22:18I purposely didn't watch any of it because I wanted to watch it for the first time with you it's so wonderful I can't believe it I love I love she's she's rolling out in menswear a lot these days oh lean in lean into it um how about the the fake I've got the verbat here I just get over how blessed I have been in my life. I can't get over it. I marvel it. After she's through a little acting bit, her cadence goes right back to normal. A hundred percent. Like the crocodile tears and that she can't believe it. She should not believe it. I mean, again, I long for the days when somebody like that would sit across from somebody who's slightly adversarial and says, explain your friendship with Harvey Weinstein to me.

1:23:05Hey, explain your friendship with Sean Diddy Combs to me. Explain that. Explain where Stedman's at. Although we did see him over the summer, allegedly, reportedly. Where is Stedman? Yeah. Here's what Oprah doesn't do. Okay, like this is how this should have gone. I believe that I've had just the most blessed life on earth. And I am so grateful to this amazing country and the people in it for bestowing on me these many blessings. I owe it all to my fans who, no matter what they were going through, no matter how busy their days were with their kids and their jobs, took time out of it to spend with me.

1:23:50And that relationship that we built helped change my life. And in my less humble moments, I could argue, changed the world because we helped a lot of people on that show. And I'm just so grateful to God and to the American public for helping me have that. That's how it could have gone. Instead, what you really need to know is how great I am. It's about, I know you can see I have a lot, but what's important is me. Right, that part she said. I am. Yes, you may, you out there may marvel at my estates, my private jets, my jewels, my Bentleys, all of it. But what you really should be marveling at, Megan, I'm fucking awesome.

1:24:41I'm so incredible. I'm one of one. There's never been another one like me. First name, bitches. All right. Steve says we've got to watch the next one. There's one more we pulled. Let's watch it. My parting words are, you were born to fulfill the dream of your life here on Earth. You were born into this planet, into the density of this gravitational pull to fulfill the dream of your life and of the creator's dream of your life here on Earth. Get about the business of doing that. You heard her. Get about the business of doing that. That's right. Oh my God, such emptiness. Also the arrogance of it, that presupposes that you're lucky enough to be born in a Western democracy.

1:25:48You're born on third. Or even in a Western democracy with nothing but time on your hands to think about your dream and pursue it. Most people are like, they have to pay their bills. They struggle, they get a job. It's a desk job, they don't tend to love it. They work nine to five, they can't wait for their vacays and to retire. It's not about the dream of my life. It's like Oprah with like, oh, you're just thinking small. No, they're not necessarily thinking small. They've had a tough hand dealt to them. They're dealing with the best they can. But there are a lot of people out there who have got special needs kids.

1:26:21Yes. Or have had a bankruptcy or lost their parents too young or are taking care of parents and a younger generation and are struggling just to keep their head above the water. They don't need to be listening to Oprah about you were born to fulfill your dream of your life. What is she even saying, Maureen? Or even like a catastrophic illness. And Oprah is directly responsible for people such as her descendants, Mel Robbins, who just finagled this newfound career. She was at one point$800 ,000 in debt as an adult wife and mother. She was a day drinker. She was a fuck up. Okay, she's got no business being in this space.

1:27:02Jim Curtis is another one. Jim Curtis, Jennifer Aniston's boyfriend. Oh, yes, I do know. Okay, yes. He's another one. His whole thing, again, he's got no, he doesn't do deep reading. He hasn't studied with anybody. We should all look for yellow butterflies. Okay, now if you look for a yellow butterfly, that's going to help you self-actualize. How? I do not know. But it's this kind of stuff that presupposes that everybody can be super special. Everybody can be super talented and super wealthy and super famous as if that's also what everybody wants. Not everybody wants that, you know? Can I tell you something?

1:27:40Oprah coined that phrase, aha moment. I had my own aha moment in watching that, which was I've been lied to by many years by this person. When I was younger and more gullible before my careers as a lawyer and a journalist, which will, of course, beat the optimism right out of you. your dreamy, sunny optimism and make you a cynic, but I actually am an optimistic person in general. Anyway, when I was more willing to believe utter pablum like that, I was sold a bunch of nonsense by this woman because she's an actress. What I saw there was acting in the same way like you'd get from a televangelist, you know, a snake oil salesman.

1:28:24We have to watch it one more time, that first clip because what I didn't realize all those years, Maureen, was that she was not offering profundities. She was taking banal, meaningless statements and putting the force of an over-actress behind them. And I was buying it as were millions of American women who had never been sold this particular brand of product before. Let's watch it again now. I believe that I've had just the most blessed life on earth. I just can't get over how blessed I have been in my life. I can't get over it. I marvel at what God and the life forces have done for me. I marvel at that.

1:29:21But when I think about it now, from the point of view of 72, I realize that what I have acquired is not as magnificent or extraordinary as who I have become. And I know that the world looks at what I have acquired, but it's who I have become. and I recognize that you really need to admire the work to become myself is the same work and ability that everybody has to become the most of themselves and I am most proud of the woman that I have become oh my god that she said nothing you know the other thing about that in watching it again is if she were really here to do what she says she was put on earth to do by God, the fates, whatever, all of her talk, it's really self-talk and it's narcissism.

1:30:24It's look at me, look at what the person I become. Instead of being like, what a privileged position I've been in to be able to reach so many people, touch so many lives. I come at this with complete humility because having a platform like this can confer you with maybe a kind of power that you haven't earned or deserve. and you have to be very careful with that. You know, I think her greatest accomplishment on the Oprah Winfrey show was bastardizing spiritualism and self-actualization as consumerism and materialism epitomized in, you get a car, you get a car, you get a car. Yes, yes. Honestly, like it's incredible how she's tearing up over herself because the whole message there was, it's, I know you admire all the things that I have as you should, But really what you're failing to recognize is the truly special thing is me.

1:31:14And she's crying over it at the top. She's actually, well, purporting to tear up over this extraordinary thing, which she wants you to know is her. Not her accomplishments, not her things that she's acquired, but her. And then literally right after spending three lines saying, I can't get over it. I cannot get over it. I marvel at it. She's like, but when I think about it now from the point of view from 72, she got over it. She's over it very quickly because it was acting. She's acting like she did in the Meghan Markle interview. It just took my own maturity and perhaps her distance from her actual acting career by starring in movies like The Color Purple and like her skills need a little dusting that the two have come together to show me what was happening.

1:32:04I was defrauded. I was misled. You were not alone. Don't blame the victim. Don't blame yourself. Don't go there. It actually is just occurring to me now what we're doing with this Mel Robbins appearance. And this is potentially another parody for the two of us down the line. Do you know that Oprah Winfrey is going to play the sphere in Las Vegas? Do you know the sphere? Yeah. How is she going to play it? She's going to go in and the sphere is going to, I guess, become something like the womb. I can only imagine what she's going to do. She's going to yell at people. That's what she does. So you're spending like maybe$1 ,100 for a two to four hour long experience, which I guarantee you will include Oprah on stage for 45, like a tight 45.

1:32:47Yes. And then the rest will be like a bunch of her filler adjacent, like low level self-help, you know, whatever. Like Mel Robbins? Like a Mel Robbins or like, you know, someone she flies in from India to do some shaman work with the crowd or whatever. Oh my. Yeah. Who would pay at this point in life to go see Oprah at The Sphere? I mean, we're trying, right? We're trying to disabuse those who are still. But it's interesting because it's a small residency. It's really small. It's not like U2 or the Eagles where they played for like a month or eight weeks. I think she's only doing like four dates.

1:33:23It's like a test run. Okay, yes. Let's see. What am I looking at here, Steve? Is it the? Okay. Aha. Oprah's aha at the Spear, Las Vegas. She's calling it the aha. Oh my gosh. Oprah Winfrey's aha, a brand new visual and musically immersive symphony of senses comes to the Spear in April. Created by a global collective of musicians, artists, and storytellers, the two-hour experience features Oprah Winfrey live on stage alongside special performances that take guests on a profound journey of wonder, joy, and the ultimate aha. That's what I'm saying. Now with some maturity, don't you see what bullshit that is?

1:34:08What of wonder, joy, and the ultimate aha? No, what you're going to get is more Oprah acting. I believe that your work here is to become yourself, to fulfill the dream of your life here on earth. What does that mean? I have no idea. How? What's my dream? How do I figure it out? How do I then fulfill it? What happens after that? What if God throws curveballs my way? What if I feel depressed along the way, Oprah? What am I supposed to do then? Like, what do you mean I'm supposed to fulfill my dream? Hey, Megan, only two hours. Two hours and maybe$1 ,100. And you got a shot at getting the answer.

1:34:48And then my whole life is going to change? I don't think so. Okay, let's keep going. The woman known as Lena Dunham has decided to reproduce, I'm sorry to tell you. Not everybody should be a mother, honestly. Couldn't agree with you more. Right? And that's fine. Not everybody should do it. And unfortunately, though she used a surrogate, she did pass along her gene pool, which I also think is problematic. Did she? Yeah. She seems to be saying in the write-up that I saw of this that it was her egg that was used, but obviously not her body. Hold on a second. This is Lena Dunham. Okay, this is from the Vogue article.

1:35:32Present and forthright with a name of impressively obedient curls and the strong sinewy form of someone who is actually good at yoga, the surrogate had stirred something in me. This is an excerpt obviously from her. As soon as we were introduced with my husband out of town, I had brought my mother to meet her and her partner. And we sat in a coffee shop in Cobble Hill, holding our matchas like props as we talked about our lives, her children, the reasons she wanted to undertake this journey, as they so love to call it, infertility medicine. After we left, my mother nodded approvingly. Then one of us said something I can't remember.

1:36:09And we fought so hard, we took separate cabs back into Manhattan. Nothing like staring motherhood in the face, no matter how much you've wanted it or for how long to make you instantly regress into a surly 14-year-old with the needs of an anxiously attached toddler. Then she writes this. I get to put on my readers. I'm struggling here, getting older. In the months before the embryo transfer date, I got to know our surrogate and to trust her. The feelings I thought would be there somehow weren't, namely, jealousy that this woman could do for a child from my child what I could not, carry her safely in her body, use her form to feed and house her, regulate the baby's ever-evolving nervous system with steadiness, heart, and breath.

1:36:55Instead, I felt a different kind of jealousy toward said baby for the chance to be tucked into someone who radiated such safety. What? Okay, wait. So maybe I was wrong when I heard the embryo transfer date. That could have been anybody's embryo. Didn't have to be Lena Dunham's. So I'm not sure whether it's her egg or not, but it really, either way, this woman is seriously tortured. Here's one thing. I couldn't define exactly what I wanted, but I knew when I saw it, clothing that was playful, but didn't lead with too much wink-wink cuteness, shopping for baby clothes. And most of all, I was looking for garments that allowed her personality to develop and express itself rather than announcing an identity she didn't have yet.

1:37:36I guess that's what we mothers are doing when we buy or like you buy for your niece. Um, we, instead of buying anything for them, which is announcing an identity that they do not yet have, we should just wait until they tell us what their, what their identity is. To give her options and to offer her something my mother had offered me and that had lent childhood its most magical moments, the chance to develop her own taste, to curate her world, to express her moves. And on and on we go. this is a sick person who should not be anybody's caregiver so this may this may sound harsh but i remember reading she wrote um an essay for vogue years ago about getting a hysterectomy as a very young woman oh and it was it was complicated and tortured in the way that so much of lena's existence is but i thought to myself well at least she'll never have a child like that is a good thing.

1:38:34That is a blessing. She turfs through dogs. Like she has had a history of turfing through dogs, like adopting them. She had, she had this dog named Lammy. She did her first Vogue shoot with Lammy. Lammy was always with her on the set of girls. Smash cut a few, few years later, she dumped the dog. She dumped the dog, the shelter it's called Bark. It's a big shelter in I believe Brooklyn. And they were like, she was supposed to bring the dog back. If she didn't want it anymore. You don't just like turf a dog. That dog did not have behavioral issues like she was claiming. So if you're going to do that to a dog, you have no, and again, in her first memoir, Not That Kind of Girl, she wrote about being sexually inappropriate with her younger sister multiple times.

1:39:19She is a disturbed individual. And I cannot believe that just, you know, anyone can become a parent. You know, you look at this photo that they took for Vogue, for the digital essay. I don't know if it's going in the physical edition. She and her husband, they look like they're homeless. He's a jobless middle-aged DJ. He's got no money. Look at her. She looks like she hasn't showered in weeks. And I'm not talking about like the new mother, I don't have time to shower. I mean, she can afford help, nannies, housekeepers, all of it, personal assistants. They look, this is not a happy story. And this is why I hate the celebrity media industrial complex.

1:40:00He is. They're both very unattractive. I'm sorry. But like, why are we still pretending Lena Dunham is a thing? You know, she did girls and that had like a following. That's pretty much been her major offering to the world. It's very, very outdated now. She's obviously made zero attempt to keep herself up physically. She seems to lean into her homeliness. And now we continue to treat her like she's relevant. She's getting the Vogue spread. We We care about somehow the fact that she used a surrogate to have a baby, which is like not. Look at this. Look at look at this. This red carpet photo of her.

1:40:34I just like why are they doing that? Because she because they think that feminism was her main thing. This is her. She is the Met Gala completely eaten by a bunch of feathers. Truly, is it because in that one series she took a feminist position and therefore she will be forever loved? Is it because she leaned into being obese and, you know, these magazine editors love that? Like, what is it about her that continues to garner all this attention? I think, you know, she comes from an art world family in New York City. So there's some cachet to that. She knew all the right people. There's some cachet to that.

1:41:09I think there's something that, like, even Anna Wintour at Vogue understands. It's like, you know that line in The First Devil Wears Prada where Miranda says to Andy after Andy has disappointed her, the Anne Hathaway character. and she's sitting behind the desk and she goes, you know, I tried. I said to myself, take a chance on the funny fat girl. You know, it's like, she's the token. Alina's the token. She's the funny fat girl, you know? And it's like, look at me. I'm not judgmental. I'm not superficial. I have a funny fat friend who's like, you look at those photos on the red carpet and I'm not trying to be flip.

1:41:46You look at her and you think that is a mentally disturbed individual. She's got all the access, all the money in the world. She is eating herself. That is not medical. She looks like a hoarder. Yeah, she doesn't look - You wouldn't be surprised at all to learn she's got like a ham sandwich under that left armpit.

1:42:06Okay, here she is. Where is this? Okay. Oh, it's a scene from - No, it's not. Yeah, okay. It's a documentary about either her or girls. Here she is at 26. I also liked the idea of showing someone who was getting an abortion and wasn't tortured by it. I feel like so often when we see a situation of a woman choosing to terminate a pregnancy on television, it's it comes with so much pain and angst. And I liked the idea of a character who goes so far in the other direction that it's almost confusing for the audience because we've been taught to react one way to this, which is, you know. with tears and regret.

1:42:47As someone who's really passionate about reproductive justice, for me, it's not just about making sure abortion is legal. It's about making sure abortion is without stigma and is not something that women feel like they have to apologize for. That also will get you a lot of love from the magazine editors. Let's destigmatize abortion. Let's make it something super fun that you don't have to feel guilty about. Apropos of that, The New Yorker just tweeted out this the other day. Pregnancy tests draw a misleading, somewhat arbitrary binary between a state of being pregnant and not being pregnant. A misleading binary between those two things?

1:43:27You can be kind of pregnant, a little bit pregnant, or almost pregnant, or maybe pregnant, and still test positive for pregnancy. What? Pregnancy tests, particularly at-home urine tests, capture a moment in time in which an embryo has implanted. Right. We call that what again? Pregnancy. And is interfacing with the uterus in some way. Interfacing with the uterus? Quote, we define how we understand the beginning of pregnancy based on this snapshot, but such a freeze frame contains limited information. Apoorva Tadapali writes, read more about this in The New Yorker. We're good. We don't need to read more.

1:44:09And the name of the article is When Does Pregnancy Really Begin? How insane is this? That's her sect. I mean, I think we've answered our question, right? You lean into these things like body positivity, no matter how dangerously obese I am and unwashed from the look of it. Her feminist bit in Girls, which promoted abortion without shame or guilt. And the magazines are telling us who they are with pieces like this in The New Yorker. You can be kind of pregnant. That's fine. So Lena Dunham is also, she said so much stupid, dangerous shit in her life. It's hard to keep up with. But she also said publicly that she had never had an abortion, but she wished she had.

1:44:50Oh, my God. She wished she had because it's such a, it's a rite of passage. It's an experience that every young feminist would want instead of it being like a horrific thing to be confronted with. I mean, I have a friend who had one as a young woman and to this day is tortured by it. So it's a bunch of bullshit to be feeding young women that it's no big deal. Right. That is sick. And she is sick. And I'm sad to hear that she's created a little baby. You got big plans for the weekend? Oh, I'm getting a massage. So nice. I'm sleeping late. I'm going to try to squeeze out another summer weekend at the beach.

1:45:28What about you? I got kids, kids, and more kids. And lots of sports, which I love. I love doing all that stuff. It's a privilege to be with them. I love you too, lady. I love you, Megan. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Have a wonderful weekend. We'll do it all over again on Monday. See you then. Don't forget to tune in to MK Confidential tonight. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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