BS Report on Cuba and Drones, and Why Spencer Pratt Can Win, with Mark Halperin, Ryan Grim, and Curt Mills, Plus Why TDS is REAL, with Jonathan Alpert | Ep. 1319

26:18I mean, his strong belief has been this is a communist, brutal regime that should be brought down. We should do whatever is within our power to bring them down so that possibly we can get Cuba to a better place where it's people can live free and people who've had to flee could potentially go back home. And is there any sort of outcome that could look like that, Ryan? Yes, but not one that involves, you know, I guess, sending in Americans to occupy it, or kind of empowering the elements in Miami that just want revenge. Because then it's going to lead to just bloodletting in a failed state. But there is absolutely a place.

26:57Right now, under Cuban law, anybody who has Cuban descent living in Miami is allowed to buy property there. They are trying to open up. It is the United States that is still, I guess, you know, simmering about the Cold War and the fact they couldn't assassinate Castro all these different times. It's like it really it's no longer rational. It's like it's really kind of an emotional lashing out. But isn't it that you tell me because I'm not an expert on this at all, but isn't it more isn't it rational because the whole point is to cause what's happening now? We don't want American investment there.

27:34We don't want anything that's going to make life better in Cuba yet, because we're playing the long game. So that's an interesting question. So could we starve the population of energy such that they reach complete collapse and catastrophe? I think probably yes. Now, it's taken many decades. There are protests that are flaring up right now. But people are genuinely also directing some of their outrage at what is closest to them, which is the government. Also, in 2019, Cuba really opened up the internet a lot. And so Cubans now have access to Instagram and things like that. And that has created the gap between how they're living and what they're seeing on social media has created a lot of resentment.

28:23So there's genuine resentment that Rubio wants to kind of drive the wedge into. So could you eventually topple the government by causing enough suffering among the Cuban population? Possibly. But then what? And to what advantage? As Kurt said, all of the national goals that the U.S. has are achievable by the end of this week in negotiations with them. Anything we want, we can have it. So how many more babies and elderly people, and not just babies, but people who have diabetes, who are otherwise healthy and we'd be otherwise living normal normal lives who are going to die so that enough people get upset that they topple the government but then for what to create a narco state 90 miles from from key west maybe like because who does that like who does that serve like that serves our security establishment there's no way the trump administration is going to let that happen there's i i would never believe trump trump will not let that happen and we would we will be their boots on the ground before we're going to let them turn into this narco rump state right off of uh Key West.

29:27That's not going to happen. But how long would we occupy? It's, I mean. Yeah, I don't know. Now we're back to the dog catching the bumper and what's the plan? Just take the deal. When Ryan was talking, Kurt, it sounded to me very familiar to what's happening in Iran right now, where, you know, we're really hoping blockading the Iranian ports is going to hurt the Iranians so much and the Iranian economy so much that they cry uncle. We're kind of trying to do the same thing to them that we've been doing to Cuba. And in both situations, it sounds like certainly in Iran, we had a group of people who were willing to talk to us across the table about striking a deal and reportedly was prepared to give us most of the things we're now demanding that they give us.

30:15We already had them in hand or were about to have them in hand when we bombed them. And according to Ryan, the Cubans were kind of in the same position where they're willing to give us a bunch of things, but is this other faction going to win out where we just go hardcore, like balls to the wall, hardcore military, you know, blow things up so we have total control of them? But in both situations, leading us with, and then what? Because we're having trouble, like getting kids educated and repairing roads and keeping inner cities safe here in America. And we really are not in a position to run Venezuela, Iran and Cuba.

30:53Curt Mills:Yeah, look, I mean, the parallels are pretty striking. And the president's desire to launch into foreign affairs and do regime change wars where he said he wouldn't instead of sort of investing in domestic renewal and the American heartland. It remains striking. Iran is obviously a more formidable state than the Cuban state at this point. That being said, the externalities of a Cuban failure, again, are much closer to the United States. And so, you know, the risk is always there as it was with Venezuela. I think fundamentally you see Trump have basically realist and dovish instincts, or at least that's what he expresses in public and to the American people with the occasional extremely violent outbursts accepted.

31:42Curt Mills:And but he's always sort of turning himself or twisting himself into a pretzel to do something different than Barack Obama is said to have done. And then, of course, he's always afraid of offending his constituencies. And so this is where I think you see this sort of functional breakdown in Trump's boss tweed style of political coalition management. I think it's very, very necessary for Trump to sell himself as a neo-Buchananite or anti-war candidate. I think that's how he got elected. But once in power, he's got to reward all these different constituencies. To an extent, what Rubio would do as president, I think, would potentially be more honest, which is, you know, I am Cuban, George W.

32:27Curt Mills:Bush. He wouldn't quite say that. But that's the pitch. And then, you know, there would be an ideological brick by brick way of doing it. I think it would be catastrophe. I don't think it could win. I think it'll be voted out. But Trump, by sort of putting this potion together, is actually potent because there is a group of people that, you know, hold out hope against hope that Trump will do something different. And in fairness, I will say, at least at this point, maybe Trump changes his mind. He can always change his mind. And that is the sliver of hope with both the Iranian and Cuban portfolios.

33:00Curt Mills:And that is different than if Rubio was the president. And that is different than if Bush was the president. i i really just wish you know that the administration would do us the courtesy on cuba of what they failed to do on iran and make the case tell me you know i'm a lawyer but at heart i'm really just a soulless lawyer who wants to be persuaded with the best evidence like put it in front of me yeah and let me make up my own mind instead of spoon feeding me a bunch of bullshit go ahead you say you want to hear the case and then they they tell you they've got 300 drones pointed at Key West, and you're not satisfied with that.

33:36So, you know, they can't win. The no cases, there's yellow cake in the drones.

33:41Curt Mills:The incoherence is the key, though, because everybody, it's a Rorschach test. If they actually, like, Trump, like, went to Congress and, like, explained what he thought, it would sound insane. I mean, we could see it on the true social. And so, like, if he did his Colin Powell moment, if he did his sort of Dick Cheney meet the press moment. It wouldn't make any sense. That's a key element here because people see what they want to see if they want to support Trump in these endeavors. You don't think I feel like, OK, Trump is not always his most effective spokesman. His political instincts are second to none, but he's not always his best spokesman.

34:13But Marco Rubio would be like, send Marco. But it's different.

34:17Curt Mills:But he hasn't done he's overrated. He hasn't done that much better. What is the first thing that Rubio did on that Monday? I was thinking about that. He said I know That we did it for Israel. So, I mean, like, the honesty is actually not politically useful for Trump because he has spun up this scheme politically. And it has to only he can keep it going, frankly. OK, so we've solved nothing, but we are all concerned. And I think we have every right to be. We'll continue to follow. I don't think I think this is the beginning of another major story and not a resolution. It doesn't need to be solved because it already is solved.

34:56Like, it's right there for us to take. We just have to tell Miami, calm down. Like, you don't run the gun for me. Oh, God. On that note, talk to you guys soon. Thank you for being here. Up next, up next, get it? We've got Mark Halperin. I'd love to know what you guys think about Cuba. I mean, it is in our hemisphere. If you follow the Don Rowe doctrine, we definitely have to pay attention to what's happening in Cuba. In this situation, it's a little different than Venezuela because we're causing what's happening in Cuba. But now what? Right? That's what we were getting to with the guys. Now what?

35:31Does it become a territory? Does it become a state? Are we responsible for it? Do we have to fuel it, fund it, repair it? Who's going to be in charge when we do that? What happens to the existing leaders who are, you know, communist? I don't know. I haven't heard the case made. I'm definitely not buying any, we're going to have to go bomb them because of their 300 drones, but I would buy the actual truth and make a smart decision based on it. So hopefully we'll get that in the coming days. Okay. Mark Halpern is here to weigh in next. If your dog is scratching more than usual, licking their paws or shaking their head, it might seem like normal dog behavior, but it turns out those can actually be signs that your dog has allergies.

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37:54We are turning to domestic politics now, the latest on crucial primaries in the 2026 midterms and some brutal new polls for the Trump administration. Joining me now, Mark Halperin. He's host of Next Up with Mark Halperin. It's a podcast as part of our MK Media Podcast Network. You can go and subscribe right now wherever you get your podcasts for free and on YouTube as well. Mark, welcome back. Great to see you. Thank you. I want to know if Cuba will have Democratic or Republican senators. I mean, any idea where that one's going? I mean, probably Democrats since it's a socialist country, but I just want to buy a condo.

38:32That's my main focus. Are we going to invade Cuba? I think they're going to settle. That sure is happening. I think they'll settle. What's next up, Mark? I think they'll broker a deal. I think there are people in the government who are ready to have some sort of accord with the United States and give up their ties to communist regimes and see if their economy can't be saved by being a satellite associate. Yes. OK. And don't let anybody call you a rump state. No one wants to be a rump state. Do whatever is possible to avoid the rump designation. Totally agree. OK, so there's a lot happening in the world of politics right now.

39:10Senator Cassidy went down in the GOP primary, Republican senator from Louisiana. Very interesting because he'd been in office 12 years, but he voted against Trump on the second impeachment, the one that was based on the January 6th riot. And since then, though, like Trump hasn't spent the whole time railing against Cassidy. He was very annoying. He's the only senator I've ever asked my audience to call. I've never said that to my audience. We don't really do campaigns on this show. But he was trying to block RFKJ, who we really thought was important to the change that we wanted to see in the health and services department and Maha.

39:51And he has been. And Kennedy did wind up doing the right thing on RFKJ and voting for him. But then he went on to become a thorn in the side and kind of a prick and really thought he was in control. His cross-examinations of RFK have been annoying. And then he just blocked Casey Means from becoming the Surgeon General, which like the Surgeon General, I mean, to be honest, like I love Casey, but like it's really not that important a position. It's somewhat important, but it's not like HHS. So what did he do? I mean, was it the impeachment thing? Has Trump just been lying in wait for him all this time?

40:22Yeah. I mean, the president's good at picking his spots and went after him when he could take him out and send a message. The president likes. he forgives people all the time but there's some things he can't forgive and he does understand that's a bit yeah and he does understand the importance in politics and hardball professions of setting examples and sending signals to folks and the folks around him people like uh chris lasavita um and um uh the white house political director they're they're uh they're tough uh they take no prisoners and when they see someone cross them uh they write it down in a little book and And when the time comes, they go after him.

41:00And Cassidy lost his job for one reason or one reason only, Donald Trump. Yeah. Well, I mean, you hear, you know, places like NPR this morning, like, oh, my God, just like Donald Trump's hold on the party. You know, after what happened with those Indiana state lawmakers who wouldn't change the redistricting rules. And Trump basically offered up his own slate of people who could replace them. And the Indiana voters were like, we accept. They went with Trump's preferred lawmakers at the state level because these guys crossed Trump. Trump wouldn't have it. He fought back in Indiana. He will fight back.

41:35It doesn't like he will. He will mess with an Indiana state representatives race. He will mess with the Senate, U.S. Senate. He will certainly mess with a House of, a member of the House of Congress, like as we're seeing in Thomas Massey, Lauren Boebert. Trump's getting involved in that. But they're very upset over NPR that he's got such a hold on the party. But he has for some time. It's his party. And there's no evidence of that weakening. Is there virtually none? Again, the voters get to decide, but Trump gets Donald Trump gets to tell the voters what he'd like them to do. And within the confines of Republican primaries, they generally do what Donald Trump says.

42:11He's almost never lost. Part of why I think he hasn't endorsed in the Texas Senate runoff is because he doesn't want to blemish his record, because if he tells folks to vote for John Cornyn, that may not happen. And so he knows how to pick his spots. And in this case, he found a candidate who we thought could be Senator Cassidy. And he was right. And I suspect it'll same thing will happen in Kentucky tomorrow with Thomas Massey. The president has has no use for Thomas Massey and Chris Lasavita. Again, one of the president's political advisers is an open book on X for a long time saying this guy's got to go and they know how to do it.

42:48They know how to do politics. I understand why people might find it not dainty or not not to their liking, particularly NPR. But he but he has he's got a hold on the party and he uses it when he wants to. When you think Trump, you think dainty. Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, I don't remember NPR being upset when Joe Biden's people called around and threatened members of Congress who had to marry to say that the president had lost a step or two. You know, this is what presidents do. They play hardball because they didn't run for the office to be nice to everybody and let people walk all over them. They play hardball, whether it's Donald Trump or Joe Biden or anybody else I've ever covered in the job.

43:26Well, and Trump's got enough to deal with with dissenting Democrats. He really can't have any defections on Team Red. And that's the message he's sending. Like you defect and you're going to get it. And these guys are in the business of politics. So, you know, welcome to politics. Let's talk about Massey because that one I think is a lot more emotional for people. I'm not sure anybody really cares about Senator Cassidy, to be honest, with all due respect. But I think they do care about Massey. How much have we heard about this race? Now, I'll tell you where I am on it. He's a detractor of Trump's, for sure.

44:00He's been he's dissented on a lot of Trump's agenda. But I I've been watching and personally, I have no problem with that. Like, OK, he's allowed to dissent from Trump. But then don't be surprised when Trump unleashes on you. Don't be surprised when Trump tries to primary you like that's that's again politics. But I am somewhat turned off by the amount of like APAC money and like the pro-Israel crowd has decided to make Thomas Massey suffer because he's against any foreign entanglements. I mean, he's really opposed to virtually every single dollar that we spend on foreign aid. He's not into it.

44:36He wants he's an America only guy, not even an America first guy. And for this, Israel has chosen to make him suffer or it's like supporters here in America. And I just find it such a turnoff, the amount of money that Miriam Adelson has dumped into this race. And so I do think there's a faction of Republican voters and probably some Democrat voters, too, who don't want to see him go down because we don't want I don't want AIPAC controlling our elections and I don't want care controlling our elections. You know, I don't want these elections determined on what's good for Israel or what's good for Muslims abroad.

45:11It should be about America. So it's annoying. But I'm not surprised to see Trump unleashing all the stops against him, because even before the Israel thing was taking front and center stage, Trump hated him like he's been voting against Trump. Right. So you're absolutely right that Massey is different than Cassidy in the respect you said, which is there are people who are passionate about Massey, not just in his district, but all over the country, because he has a certain strand of MAGA who really likes him, who likes to stand on foreign interventions, who likes what he's done with Ro Khanna on the Epstein stuff.

45:45So he's got a big following. But and there's you're right that APEC's putting a lot of money. But I'll say if Massey loses, it'll be for the same reason Cassidy lost Donald Trump. The money that's been put in by pro-Israel forces, I don't think is dispositive. I think he'll win or lose based on what the president and his team have mobilized. Every every dollar matters. But there's money on both sides in this race. And Massey's got got support also from people who you wouldn't necessarily want to, quote, unquote, as you said, control. But the control here is to the voters and the voters get to decide if Massey gets reelected or not.

46:19And again, I think if he loses and I think he probably will, it's almost entirely because Donald Trump wills it to be so. And the party follows Donald Trump on most everything. He's making the case that it is the Israel money. This is what he said to ABC's This Week yesterday, Sop 10.

46:36Curt Mills:Well, you see, you've actually said this week that this, that your vote is a referendum on whether Israel gets to buy seats in Congress. What did you mean by that? Well, the RJC, AIPAC, and Miriam Adelson and Paul Singer, they're all part of the Israeli lobby, and that's where all the money comes from. And it will be a referendum on foreign policy, whether Israel gets to dictate that by bullying members of Congress. And I'm the one they haven't been able to bully. So they're putting all the brunt, the force on me. But you can tell that I'm ahead in the polls and they're desperate. That's why they're sending the secretary of war to my district tomorrow.

47:16Curt Mills:That's why the president's losing sleep and tweeting about this. That's why AIPAC has dumped another$3 million into my race this weekend. It's because they're panicked and they really haven't been able to gain a lead in this race. Is he wrong, Mark? Well, it's hard to know. I mean, Bill Cassidy on the morning of his primary was confidently predicting he would win and he didn't make the runoff. So I'm not sure we can credit him for knowing that he's definitely going to win. It's certainly the race is either close or up in the air enough that, of course, both sides are going to work hard at the end and put in more money.

47:51So I don't know that he's right about the reasons why they're doing it. They're doing it because they want to make sure that they beat him. In terms of who's controlling it, again, the president did this. This is the president's doing. But no doubt that people who want a more pro-Israel policy are spending big money in the race. And that is a rallying cry now. It's talked about a lot, but I still don't think talked about enough or fully understood, both on the left and the right in this country now, going after AIPAC, going after people who support Israel with a lot of energy is popular in a lot of parts of the country.

48:29And you're going to see more of this in the midterms and primaries in the general election. And you're going to see more of it in the 2028 race, because this is for many Americans, they want a big change in what was a national consensus for a long period of time over support for Israel. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have Israel to thank for that. Here's what Thomas Massey told Tucker on APAC's influence in our U.S. politics when he went on his show. He's been on a few times. This is this one's from June 7th, 2024.

48:58Curt Mills:Well, I have Republicans who come to me on the floor and say, I wish I could vote with you today. Yours is the right vote, but I would just take too much flack back home. And I have Republicans who come to me and say that's wrong what a pack is doing to you let me talk to my a pack person by the way everybody but me has an a pack person what's that mean an a pack person it's like your babysitter your a pack babysitter who uh is always talking to you for a pack they're probably a constituent in your district but they are you know firmly embedded in a pack and every member has something like this every i don't know how it works on the democrat side uh but that's how it works on the republican side and when they and when they come to dc you go have lunch with them and they've got your cell number and you have conversations with them so i've had like that's absolutely crazy i've had four members of congress say i'll talk to my apac person and it's clearly what we call them my back guy i'll talk to my apac guy and see if i can get him to you know dial those ads back why if i never heard this before it doesn't benefit anybody why would they want to tell their constituents that they've basically got a buddy system with somebody who's representing a foreign country does anyone have a putin guy that they talk to not only do they not have a putin guy look they don't they they don't have a britain guy They don't have an Australian guy.

50:35Curt Mills:They, you know, they don't have a Germany dude. Like, it's the only country that does this. so mark to me my takeaway in watching that is you know all the time i was at fox 14 years plus absolutely zero downside in republicans saying that they are walking in lockstep with israel it was like nothing but good things can come from saying that back israel a hundred percent only in the past couple of years since israel you know first defended itself in gaza and then just went to the point where many people were using the term genocide and completely leveled Gaza and now it's leveling Beirut, have they become far more controversial even in Republican politics to the point where Republicans under 50 don't support them?

51:20So does the AIPAC guy continue on Team GOP or are we going to start to see whether it's at Massey's battle tomorrow or the actual midterms in November forward a change in all that? Well, they've already suffered some losses in both parties over the last few years and in Democratic primaries. They've not always gotten their way. And sometimes they've completely bollocksed it up and helped someone who was even more anti-Israel win a primary. So they're reevaluating how they do business, but they're up against a force bigger than just a bunch of Washington meetings and conference calls. They're up against a force of scrutiny of Israel's conduct that, That again, on the left and on the right has led to a really concerted effort to say anything APEC does is bad.

52:09No longer should be evaluated on the merits. Anything they do is bad. And they went for a long time as one of the most arrogant and entitled lobbies in Washington. And they're paying a price for that now, along with the strong feelings about Israel's behavior. And supporters of Israel are at a loss to know what to do. They're constantly strategizing. but they're up against some really, really powerful forces that, as I said, a bunch of meetings aren't going to solve. Yeah. All right, Mark, stand by. We will be right back. Mark stays with us. Quick break first. Don't go away. Ever been in a bad relationship?

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53:42Mark Halperin, host of Next Up with Mark Halperin, is back with me now. So, Mark, what are you thinking right now? I heard you on your show. We played a clip. I don't know, two weeks ago, saying you were seeing a potential more than ever for the Senate to go blue in these midterms. But since then, we've had redistricting wins on Team Red. And I don't think the momentum's changed exactly. The polls are still very bad for Republicans, especially for Trump. But has anything changed your mind? How are you looking at the midterms as of today? Well, in terms of the Senate, it's still race by race. But if it were today, the Republicans would lose the Senate because the polls, as you've said a couple of times, are just a disaster.

54:30So a lot of these races would fall to the Democrats. But with a little stabilization, I think it still goes back to a big challenge for Democrats because they have to basically run the table, hold three races, win three and then win one more. And right now, you know, I look at Michigan where Democrats are poised to nominate someone who I think is basically unelectable in Maine, where I think in the end, Plattner will prove to be unelectable unless I'm just really misreading the Maine electorate. And if those two go Republican, one would be a Republican hold and one would be a Republican win, then Republicans will hold the Senate.

55:06But the environment has to change for that to happen. But it could. On the Republican side, redistricting has made it less likely Democrats take majority, but they're still favored to. And we'll have to see how many races end up actually being competitive. But Republicans have to fix in the House. Republicans have to fix this environment problem. The president's approval rating, how people feel about the economy, the price of gas. If they don't fix that, it doesn't matter how much money they raise or how unpopular Democrats are. Then they'll lose control of both chambers. Because even though they've gained some 14 seats in the redistricting, you know, you could be looking at if you look at 2018, Republicans lost 40 House seats.

55:42It's like if the margins are that big and the approvals are that low, no redistricting is going to save them. So they actually have to start addressing some of the concerns of the voters. This just in, we've got a couple of polls. None of them is good news for the Republicans, unfortunately. But here's one from, let's see, pulling it up. Brand new New York Times poll. Dan Pfeiffer of Team Obama. biased, but says, for what it's worth, this poll points toward a shellacking for the GOP, driven by Trump's putrid polls, an unpopular war with Iran, and anger about his economic policies. But the reality in the crosstabs, he writes, is even worse.

56:28And here's why. And he goes through, look, he says he has an overall approval rating of 38 percent, but he says it's what is happening with the voters who won him the 2024 election that is making this particular Democrat happy. With Latino voters, he's underwater 51 points. With voters aged 18 to 29, young voters, he's underwater 57 points. With independents, he's underwater 43 points. So in other words, That's the difference between his approval and disapproval. The disapproval is much higher. And those were votes that helped deliver him the White House, Mark. We've seen this now in poll after poll.

57:14We've even seen this with the white working class. That's in a new poll today showing the white working class in yet another poll is now showing an overall disapproval of President Trump. This is CBS poll in February of 2025. Trump with that group, white non-college voters. He had an approval rating of 68 % and disapproval of 32%. So he was plus 36 with them. In May this month, he has an approval rating with this group of 46, disapproval now of 54. He's now underwater eight with them, eight, which is a 44-point swing to the negative for Trump with the white working class, which is, without a doubt, Trump's base?

58:06You know, one of the things I think so important, and if you want to be on the national town square, is to not hide from the truth. If you're a huge Trump supporter and you think in general the polls are fake news, you should wise up because the results you just read of one poll match private Republican polling almost exactly in almost every case. Every poll is a little bit different, But the general numbers are the same. And that's why, again, Republicans say we got to fix the environment. We got to get our folks who supported Trump in 2024 to feel better about the economy in particular. Until and unless that happens, this will be a big wipeout.

58:43But there's a lot of time. And if Democrats, if Republicans can get things, people feeling a little bit better, then they can execute their plan, which is to say to folks, don't make this a referendum on Donald Trump. make it a choice between two sides. And, you know, the Democratic brand is as popular as a rat at a picnic. They're just not right now being held accountable for that because so much focus, as is always the case, is on the incumbent and people's very sour mood about the economy. Yeah. Yes. If you're staying with the CBS poll, listen to this. Is your income keeping up with inflation?

59:22Yes, it is. 23%. No, it isn't. 77%. Yeah. 77 % of the electorate says their income is not keeping up with inflation. That's dire. Gas prices have been a financial hardship and difficult, an inconvenience but not difficult, or your finances have not been affected. 59 % say a hardship and difficult. That's 60 % of people basically saying, no, it's been very tough for me. Only 26 % say inconvenient, but not difficult. And only 15 say not affected. It's not an issue for me. This is interesting. Are you getting a clear understanding of the situation in the Strait of Hormuz? 69 % say, I have no fucking clue what's happening in the Strait of Hormuz.

1:00:09I do not know. The answer is no. Only 31 % say yes. Let's see. How do you feel about the Trump administration's approach to the economy? You've got, I've got to do math here, 40, 70 % say they're either frustrated or angry. How do you feel about Trump's approach to the economy? 70%. I am frustrated or I'm angry. Only 30 % say they're enthusiastic or satisfied, breaking down to 11 % enthusiastic, 19 % satisfied. and the inflation numbers are the worst of all. Like whenever you start asking the electorate at all about inflation, they all say that's the number one thing they hate and they're blaming Trump.

1:00:57At this point, you know, the old it's Joe Biden who created it, it's not working, especially because inflation was a lot lower when Trump took office than it is right now. So I don't know, Mark, if they call you in there and they could because everyone respects Mark Halperin's view on politics and America. What do you tell them to do to turn this ship around? Well, the 11 percent who aren't bothered by the president's economic policies, I can tell you one thing about them. They all use grape upon mustard. The people who are doing the people who got rich during covid are getting rich now. And this is not a partisan thing.

1:01:33It's not an anti-Trump thing. It's just a fact of our economy. When things go poorly, like during covid for the middle class, the working class, rich people get richer. We've had it in COVID. We're having it now. And that's that's just the optics of it are horrible. But the reality of it is horrible. I think the big problem for the president before he can move on to messaging and talking about the Democrats position on trans and other issues, he's got to end the war. and I gotta tell you I've never seen a situation like this where I don't see from talking to lots of smart people every day I don't see the way out unless Iran caves in I don't see the way out and and that's a problem because the clock's ticking towards the midterms that's not good no I agree with you but it's I was hoping you were going to deliver different news because it is it's become like they're They're intransigent and they're not buckling.

1:02:29Trump keeps saying it. It's like, please stop. Okay, just please, just stop. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Like, it's like the Cuba thing. Like, we can handle the truth. We can see it's very tricky, very difficult. There's no point in undermining the value of your own word because we do need to trust our president by continuously telling us they've caved, we've won, and it's over. When here we are weeks and months later, they haven't caved. We haven't won. It's not over. We would love for those things to be true. Right. Well said. I don't know, Mark. I mean, what what do you think? Have you heard anything about how they feel internally at the White House and the Pentagon about the Iran problem?

1:03:09Right. So there's two areas that the hopeful people cite. One is the thing the president and Scott Besson have been talking about for weeks that Iran's going to run out of storage capacity for its oil and that that will cause them to cry uncle, because at that point, they're not making money selling oil and they'll have to shut down their oil facilities. And if you shut them down, it's virtually impossible to start them back up with their great expense. That hasn't happened yet. But the president and Scott Besson have been promising it for a while. Maybe that'll happen. The other is Iran has made a counter offer.

1:03:40It still falls far short the administration says what would be acceptable. But the optimist administration say this shows Iran knows it's losing. Iran knows it needs to make a deal. Other people in the administration say this shows Iran is still playing games and that they'll just try to run out the clock towards the midterms by coming back with incrementally, quote unquote, better offers. um i'm i'm deeply concerned uh from talking to folks about the prospect of more military force used by the united states because of the capacity iran seems to have may have to hit other civilian and and and energy and uh health targets in israel and in the middle east in the gulf states so again i've covered a lot of presidents and a lot of sticky wickets a lot of pickles a lot of problems, a lot of challenges.

1:04:33I've never seen one like this because he can't walk away. People say, oh, just declare victory and go home. The strait would still be closed. They can't walk away. They can't say, well, we destroyed the nuclear program because they have to open it. Can I ask this? Won't China step in to open it? I know it's not their problem they didn't create this, but they don't want the strait closed and they're friends. So don't they have a better, likelihood of getting the straight open than we do? Well, I think just from observation and reporting in the short term, I think China's fine with the straight being closed because it embarrasses the United States.

1:05:07The president may say Mr. Xi is a great friend of his, but I think China loves seeing the United States brought to its knees to some extent by another country. And then and again, I always want to make clear, I'm rooting for the United States. I hope the president figures this out. I hope the Iranian people get regime change, but we can't put our head in the sand and ignore what we see right in front of us. I think the Chinese can work it out. We're going to get regime change if we're not careful. I think the Chinese will figure out a way to get oil. They're already figuring out some ways to get it.

1:05:39The president's going to sell him some and they could the Iranians could say, we'll open the strait to Chinese oil, but not to not to other other countries and oil going to China. And if the United States tries to blockade it, there could be a confrontation. So in the long term, yes, China can't go forever with the strait being closed. But I suspect they can go through the midterms with the strait being closed. How do we think that the meeting with the Chinese president went last week? I thought it was amazing. In nothing I read, no newspaper article, no evening news report. Did they talk about the two leaders digging in on AI?

1:06:19and the threat it poses to all of our children, to our future, to our kids' future. Forget the existential threat of like, the AI becomes super intelligent and drops a bomb on us pesky humans, which actually is a risk that's being seriously flagged by AI experts. But let's just check that for now because we mere mortals can't quite understand that one. The elimination of all of our children's livelihoods. like every white collar job in America and a lot of the blue collar ones too. Didn't even seem to come up, Mark. So who's mining that shop? Well, I think our boys need to go into the HVAC business because I don't think AI can replace that.

1:07:04So get them off the college track, get them into trade school. I think there'll still be jobs in journalism. Yeah, I do too. Not many, but some. There'll be some. Well, on our side, there are lots of people. David Sachs, Scott Besson, others are very on top of this. The problem is the Chinese don't seem to have anybody who wants to take the lead negotiating. It was discussed. Remember, they have three more meetings. Part of why I think this meeting was for many kind of anticlimactic and and and is that all there is reaction to it is they have three more meetings in the next six months. And so I think this was meant to be kind of phase one.

1:07:41if the goal of the summit was to make Xi feel like his country is equal to the United States, I think the president pulled that off. Over the weekend, they announced a few other things. I'm amazed. You talk about the transformation we did earlier and how Americans think about Israel. The change in China is quite something because Donald Trump is going over there and saying what a great guy Xi is and how wonderful China is. I don't think you could have gotten away with that five years ago, six years ago. In fact, Donald Trump ran for president in 2016 saying very different things about China. But if the goal was to get.

1:08:14They didn't say it about us. No, no, it was totally. They didn't say it about him. It was totally unequal. And the president said it repeatedly. So I think that, again, there's no other conclusion one can draw, but that that was one of the primary goals to give Xi what he wanted, which is to feel that the United States treats him like an equal. The problem is, I don't think Xi gives anything back in return. and he negotiates over what's mine is mine and what yours will negotiate over. And he wants what he wants. And I don't think praising him, he's a very shrewd guy. I don't think praising him impacts him.

1:08:49It makes him feel good because he can sell to his own people that, well, the United States treats us as an equal. But in terms of actually changing his behavior on controversial areas, I don't see it. And the two countries must cooperate on AI because they're the two international leaders on the matter. and every one of our children is impacted unless the government can get this right. So two things. One, everything you just said is exactly right and applies to what Trump has done with Putin too. He thinks because he can be manipulated by flattery that that'll work on others. And it clearly has served Trump well in politics and in real estate, but it's not working when it comes to international diplomacy at all.

1:09:32It's failed with Putin, who we also put on an equal scale to us when he came over and Trump met him at the airport. Did the Chinese president meet Trump at the airport? He did not. He sent the number two guy. We went to him and we flattered him. We said all these nice things about him, about China. Did he say any of those things about Trump or the United States? Not at all. So it's just, it's not working. Trump calculates that this thing that he has used effectively will work. And it's not, that particular thing's not working. I'm gonna show you something somewhat profane, but very entertaining from Tim Dillon about how he views the United States and China, having watched the news out of that summit.

1:10:13Brace yourself. Here we go.

1:10:15Curt Mills:This is very clear that there's no option. We're not telling China to fuck off. We're done with that. Let me help everybody. We're done with that. We're not the high school bully anymore. We're not. We're the weird kid who may have a gun. We are not the high school bully anymore. We're the weird kid that may have a gun and is not hot, but it's not terribly ugly. Like, you might fuck them. That's who we are. We're the weird kid that knows how to get drugs, who may have a gun, and you could see yourself fucking. We're not the bully. We're not the jock. We are not the quarterback. The American quarterback century is over.

1:10:59Curt Mills:This is not Top Gun. We are not Tom Cruise. You need to wake the fuck up. There's a new Chinese kid in school, and he's kind of American looking. He's kind of ripped, but he's also Chinese, and he's hot, and people want to fuck him.

1:11:16It's an imperfect metaphor, Megan. Imperfect. It's so funny. Is he wrong? I don't know. I mean, he's persuading me. He's partially right. I mean, we still have a lot of advantages over China. The problem is they're they're an evil empire. And I've said for a long time, the goal, the job of the American president on foreign policy and national security is to figure out how to get leverage over China, Russia and Iran. And as you said about China and Russia, it's also true about Iran. Remember, for a while, the president was saying, oh, the Iranians are such good negotiators. You know, they're the new the new group is reasonable.

1:11:56These three these three regimes are just interested in pocketing wins over the United States. They're not interested in helping Donald Trump out of the mess he's in. So, again, I hope he can figure it out. I hope he can end both wars. I hope he can topple the Iranian regime. I hope he can get every advantage over China on economics and national security. But right now, it looks to be playing a hand that involves flattery as a way to get leverage over these three governments. And I just don't see an evidence of it. No, you're right, too. Yeah, the Iranian example is a good one. It's worked a little better with North Korea.

1:12:34Yes, it has. You know, as Trump said the other day, he goes, they're quiet. So that's good. That's one we can put in his favor. So they still have missiles and nukes. So it's not over. It's just that they're not rattling sabers immediately. We'll take quiet. Yeah. That's great. Quiet's good. That's a win. Quiet's a win. Temporarily. Quiet's a win. Okay. Spencer Pratt remains in the headlines. And now there's a question about whether Trump is going to endorse him. Reportedly, the White House is considering it. Since it's California and L.A., you do have to ask the question, would that be helpful?

1:13:09Right? It's like, not sure. I'm sure they're weighing that. They're aware of that dynamic too. I want to show you something he just released because he's been doing such a good job at the ad game. You know, whether it's him or his surrogates or he retweets something that somebody did via AI, but he's clearly got a good eye for communication, what works, what doesn't. Here's his latest ad he just released with a Fresh Prince of Bel-Air theme.

1:13:38Curt Mills:Now this is a story all about how my life got turned upside down and I had to take a minute to run for mayor. I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.

1:13:57Curt Mills:In West Los Angeles, Palisades, my backyard is where I spend most of my days. Eating hummingbirds, relaxing all cool Avoiding all the bones outside of the school When a couple politicians, the world's no good Started making trouble in my neighborhood I got at one little fire, my mom got scared And said, you're moving in with Harvey Levin in Bel Air

1:14:25Curt Mills:I pulled out from my lot about seven or eight And I yelled to the rubble, yo, I'll smell you later I moved to my kingdom. I was finally there to sit on my throne as a prince of Bel-Air.

1:14:42He's in his trailer in Bel-Air at the end for the listening audience. It's very clever given that whether he actually lives in his trailer on the spot where his house burned was all over the news last week. Harvey Levin actually cross-examined him on TMZ saying, isn't it true that you're at the Hotel Bel Air? You're not in your trailer on your lot. And so you've moved to Bel Air, this snooty community. And he just kept saying, my home is still a burned lot where my trailer is. I've been getting death threats. So yeah, we were in a hotel now, but my home is burned and where it always was. And they just kept having this sort of meaningless back and forth.

1:15:24So there seems to be a jab at Harvey Levin in a clever, I think, new ad. What do you think, Mark? Well, a lot of focus on whether he'll win and a lot of focus on the ads and the ads are spectacular and they teach a lot about what effective communication is in politics and in general. To me, the biggest issue here, whether he wins or loses, and I think he has a good chance to win. I predicted a little bit tongue in cheek that I think he would, that he will win, but I don't feel strongly about it, but I think he could. But the biggest issue is we have let down families and children in big cities around the country for decades now, almost all run by Democrats.

1:16:00The case of the mayor of L.A., Karen Bass, is an extreme one because she also allowed the fires to burn down. But separate from that, drugs, crime, failing schools, all the things that exist in in in our big cities run by Democrats and the Republican Party. I say all the time the only thing bigger failure than the democratic governance in the cities is the failure of republicans to win these races by saying are you sick of the failure let's try something different this guy is may not be an orthodox candidate but like donald trump I think that's what's given him a chance he's highlighting the failures of governance that's what this should be about all these families I live in a big city you used to all these families and children who have been failed by failed governance deserve a competition of ideas.

1:16:53And although he's not been very specific what his solutions are in most cases, he's been very effective and on point in criticizing, critiquing the failure of governance by Democrats in Los Angeles. So whether he wins or not, I hope every conservative in the country who lives in a big city or cares about a big city, learns from him to say, not just make effective funny ads, but point out the failure and offer something better. Because again, our big cities need to be saved. No, as they say in AA, the first step is admitting you have a problem. And how can you reelect Karen Bass, who doesn't admit she has a problem, or her other Democrat running mate, who they seem to think, oh, whatever problems there are have nothing to do with the real problems.

1:17:38They won't identify the actual problems that they've helped create. So yeah, makes sense to me. Speaking of Harvey Levin, he had an extraordinary moment in, he does a podcast once a week. Is it with Garagos? I think it's with Garagos. Yeah, it's with our friend, Mark Garagos, who we love and really kind of let the guard down. Like Harvey, I don't really know Harvey's politics, to be honest, but he seems more left-leaning to me. He's been very Trump skeptical. He definitely gave Spencer Pratt the business last week over that trailer. But then there was this remarkable moment in the podcast he does with Garagos.

1:18:15Listen to Sat 18.

1:18:17Curt Mills:I'm not only a born and raised Los Angeleno, but I'm second generation. My dad was born and raised in L.A. And so this is my life. And I have seen this city just fall apart, you know, over the last, I don't know, eight, nine years, but especially the last four years that, you know, the homeless problem is out of control in this city. I've been chased by people, a guy with a hammer walking out of my gym. He chased me with a hammer. I had a mentally ill woman, a homeless woman, take a boulder and trash my car. And I caught her doing it. And I realized there was nothing I can do. What am I going to do?

1:18:58Curt Mills:Get her arrested? I mean, what is that going to do? Am I going to sue her. So I literally looked at my car, watched her walk away and said, I live in Los Angeles. And, you know, the fires have been an absolute outrage in the city. This city operated in an appalling way during the fires. I've got a friend, his name is Dan Brunn. He's an amazing architect. He put together a plan with a hundred architects to offer their services free of charge to rebuild Altadena and Pacific Palisades. I actually contacted Gavin Newsom. They were all in and they brought it down to the city, which they had to do, and it died a slow death in the city of Los Angeles.

1:19:34Curt Mills:So this city is not working. Really powerful stuff. What do you make of it? Sounds like every one of my liberal friends who lives in L.A. This is why I think Spencer Pratt might win, because because that point of view, if you own a home and or have kids and you live in L.A., I don't know how you have any other point of view. It's manifestly failing. And as as popular expression goes, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. How could anyone want to consign themselves to four more years of Karen Bass's policies? I don't get it. So I just, I listened to that and it's just, it's like my inbox with all my liberal LA friends who say to me, I'm not going to vote for Karen Bass.

1:20:20I don't really love Spencer Pratt. I think he's kind of a joke. This is them talking, but they're all voting for Spencer Pratt, every one of them. Trey, he should pull the Trump line out. What the hell do you have to lose? Yeah, exactly, 100%. You know what Trump said to black voters? 100%. What do you have to lose? Yeah. That's what Spencer Pratt needs to say. He's got something. He's got the it factor.

1:20:41Curt Mills:Yep. And so I agree with you. Don't rule him out just because of these polls right now. We'll see. Fingers crossed that our friends in Los Angeles rescue themselves. Mark Halpern, a pleasure, my friend. Thank you for being here. Great to see you, Megan. Thanks. All right, coming up next, a first-time guest on this show out with an important new book on the dangers of too much therapy. Are you feeling sluggish, bloated, not quite like yourself? Life constantly bombards us with silent threats, processed foods, artificial light, nonstop stress, all of which can disrupt gut health, drain energy, and weaken immune health.

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1:21:58And they have a special deal for you too. Go to armra.com slash Megan or enter Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, to get 30 % off your first subscription order. You do that when you're checking out. That's A-R-M-R-A.com slash M-E-G-Y-N or just enter that code Megan when you're checking out.

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1:22:59Curt Mills:We were made for this. Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with The Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Lake Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

1:23:36Modern therapy culture has made its way out of the therapist's office and seeped into everyday American life. Today, it's everywhere, in our politics, our workplaces, our social media feeds. Well, our next guest wrote the book on how this happened. He's psychotherapist Jonathan Alpert, and he is the author of the brand new book, Therapy Nation, How America Got Hooked on Therapy and Why It's Left Us More Anxious and Divided, out tomorrow. Jonathan, welcome to the show. Great to see you. Megan, thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it. Oh, the pleasure's all mine. So tell me why you felt it was important to write this book.

1:24:15Well, like you said, therapy is just everywhere and it really should stay confined to the therapist office, but it's not. And back in 2012, I wrote an opinion piece for the New York Times called In Therapy Forever, Enough Already. And in that piece, I argued that therapy is actually hurting people in most cases, not helping people. And then fast forward to a few years ago when I started writing Therapy Nation, and I saw that this is a much bigger problem than I thought. It's dividing families. There's estrangement. It's affecting relationships. It's affecting dating. It's made its way into politics.

1:24:52So really, therapy is just everywhere. And that's why the book is called Therapy Nation. It's in many ways ruining this country. So I thought it was important to get that message out there. So it used to be in the country, you know, stiff upper lip, you know, you're fine. You're fine. And then we kind of realized, well, that doesn't work for everybody. Some people actually do need to talk about their problems. And we had more psychotherapists pop up and more counseling pop up and people started to use them. And how do we get from that to everyone is overly therapized and has got their prescriptions for their boundaries, their me time, their safe spaces, to where you can't even talk to some of these young people because they're so obsessed with their latest disorder or how something you've done has crossed some imaginary line that they've created in order to foster their own happiness.

1:25:46Well, and you're spot on with that. Everything's a disorder. We have therapists that are pathologizing everything. Had a bad day at work? Well, you must have a toxic work environment. Your boss is a jerk. Well, he must be a narcissist if he's demanding. Or your boyfriend's not acting the way that you want him to. Well, he must be a narcissist as well. So we have therapists. Every one of my friends who has an ex-boyfriend thinks he's a narcissist. Like, it's very funny. It's a common theme. Well, and it's an overdone theme. And my profession is to blame for that. We have therapists who are using these clinical terms so loosely, and then it's migrated and found its way into social media.

1:26:28So we have, you know, you name it, your favorite influencers out there just spewing absolute nonsense and labeling everyone as ADHD or toxic or narcissist or bipolar or borderline. So it's a huge problem in our society. I have patients that come in to see me for the first time and they say, I think I'm bipolar or I think my girlfriend is borderline. And I said, well, why do you think that? Well, my influencer that I follow said that. And they put out these checklists, five signs that you might be ADHD or five signs that your boyfriend's a narcissist. So, again, this starts in my profession. I have colleagues that are putting this nonsense out there.

1:27:12how do you it's funny because i've told the audience many times that i i've had the same therapist for 14 15 years now 15 years and but i so i'm like why does that work for me the truth is we don't really do therapy he's more like a life coach you know he more gives me helpful tips for how to think about things in a different way he never asks me questions about my childhood or my mother. You know, it's not like that. It's like, he's very practical and he likes cognitive behavioral therapy where you're really just giving somebody a tool for different ways of looking at things. For me, that's been very effective.

1:27:48But oftentimes it is more of a blame session with these therapists who want to throw your parents. Like I have a dear friend who's been through multiple therapists. And like, if I had a nickel for each one that tried to alienate her from her mother and she loves her mother, she actually didn't seem to have a bunch of problems with or mother until the therapist started to create some. Yeah, exactly. And Megan, it sounds like you've got a great therapist and there should be more therapists like that. But so many people have come to me and they've talked about their previous therapy and how they just sat there and talked about their potty training days for years and years.

1:28:23And if you think about the time commitment, if you're going in weekly and spending a fortune on this, it's a complete utter waste of time. And I think we don't need to look too much further than Woody Allen. He's the poster boy for lifelong old school psychoanalysis. It simply does not work. And the approach that you mentioned, cognitive behavioral therapy, is much more about setting concrete goals and coming up with a plan to reach them. And that's the way that I practice as well. And that's most effective. That's how you're going to help with anxiety issues, depression, relationship problems, career, performance issues.

1:29:00But to sit around and vent with your therapist, in the moment it feels good. And that's why people keep going back for more. But if you're not learning practical skills or gaining true insight or tools, then it's a complete waste of time. Yes, yes. They're doing this to children, too. Again, we're speaking with Jonathan Alper, and the book is Therapy Nation, How America Got Hooked on Therapy and Why It's Left Us More Anxious and Divided. More anxious. They're both addressed, the division as well. But on the anxiety front, the children go through this, too. The children show up at school, and now the big thing is for these teachers to make them talk about the worst thing that's ever happened to them.

1:29:42That's what the college essays are supposed to be about. Something terrible that happened to you. And just the mere act of spending all your time thinking about that or trying to kick off your day at school, talking about that is not helpful. Yeah, no, it's not helpful at all. And if we're so focused on all the things that are wrong with ourselves or society, how are we possibly going to move forward? When I work with people, I want them to tap into their strengths and what they're good at, not sit there and talk to me endlessly about all the things that are problematic in their life. Let's talk about what's good and how to build on that.

1:30:18But you're right. We see it in schools. After the most recent election of Donald Trump, Georgetown University held emergency sessions to help their students cope with the loss. And I have to wonder if Kamala Harris had won, would we have seen those same faculty and therapists providing mental health help for students? I highly doubt it. Oh, yeah. But academia is a huge, huge problem in my profession. I mean, we have Columbia University that teaches their grad students a model of, well, you're either oppressed or you're the oppressor. I'm sorry, that just does not work. You're creating a monster when you do that.

1:31:03If you're training a therapist to look at every patient as either oppressed or the oppressor, that's not going to move our society to a healthier place. I mean, I'm pretty sure this was years ago when I was on Fox, but I think it was Columbia Law School, too, that canceled exams. If you were upset over, was it the Ferguson riot? You have upset, you don't have to take exams because you're too upset, which, of course, is not how real life works. When you're an actual lawyer, you actually have to go into court and argue no matter what's happening in the news, no matter what's happening in your private life.

1:31:36And certainly if you cannot function in the face of being upset, you're not going to make a very good lawyer. It's a very contentious profession. Like you actually do need to learn how to function under duress and when things are on fire around you. But that little microcosm could be expanded to our society right now with parents creating the safe spaces, then the academic environments create the safe spaces, and then they get out into the world and they think the safe spaces are an entitlement. Yeah, no, we have an accommodation culture that's running rampant. We have therapists who are writing notes for everything, had a bad day, well, you need extra time on your test, on your exam at school.

1:32:23Therapists are accommodating, and you can even extend this into, you know, other issues where therapists will just validate everything. If a young boy thinks he might be a girl or vice versa, they'll just validate and affirm that. And we've all seen the dangerous path that that can go down. So it's time that therapists tap the brakes on all this and start to teach resilience and not just cater to every weakness or fragile aspect that they think their patient has. Yes, yes, yes. This is like, I just feel like parents have totally misunderstood their job in some ways, because when your kid is home from zero to 18 or whenever they're going off to leave you, That's your opportunity when they have problems to work with them so that they can learn how to solve them.

1:33:15You're in the backup supportive role so that they can learn that skill as opposed to a chance for you to exercise your super savvy problem solving skills for them. It's like at some point, they're not going to live with you. At some point, they need to do it on their own. Wouldn't you rather they practice while still with you, while you can be of help if it falls apart or while they might want some input, but not somebody else to do it. And it's just, I can see lots of people doing this. They totally misunderstand it and it's to their child's detriment. It's actually sad. You also write, as I point out in the book, Therapy Nation, it's called by Jonathan Alpert, how America got hooked on therapy and why it's left us more anxious and divided about the division and how, for example, example, TDS, Trump derangement syndrome, is a real thing.

1:34:07And it's like, you really are sick. Like this thing could possibly wind up in the DSM-5. It might actually have a place to go in there. Yeah, Megan, my favorite topic, TDS. And I did write a piece in the Wall Street Journal about that. And I made it very clear that this does not exist right now. It's not in the DSM. I mean, I can't imagine that we'll ever see it in the DSM. But the pathology that I'm seeing in patients resembles a lot of other disorders. There's a hyper fixation on Trump. They can't sleep because they're thinking about Trump. I've even had patients who can't possibly take a vacation.

1:34:45They'll say, well, how can I take a vacation knowing that Trump's in office? So it's just absolutely ridiculous. I've seen relationships broken up because of Trump. I recall one person, he posted that iconic photo of Trump getting up after being shot in Butler. And then his significant other saw that picture that he posted. And then they went to their couples therapist. And the couples therapist said, well, what are you going to do about posting that picture? You have to do something about that. You can't possibly put such a picture up there. and my patient was like, well, what do you mean? It's just an iconic photo.

1:35:23I'm not a very political person. I just happened to like the photo. And the therapist made him feel like there was something wrong with him. So we have therapists that are acting as social justice warriors rather than clinicians. It's absolutely absurd what's going on. TDS seems, I mean, it seems like a very, very bad affliction. Truly, like I'd rather, I think, have OCD. I'd rather have tics. I just feel like because once you have the TDS, it ruins and runs your life. Everything is put through the prism of Trump. How how does how is Trump to blame? What am I going to do about Trump? And it's very unhealthy to spend that much time thinking about your president.

1:36:07It is. And, you know, just to look at the other side, I've had plenty of patients who hate it, disliked Joe Biden or Kamala Harris. But they didn't sit up at night thinking about him. They certainly never wanted him, those people to be killed. And the difference is on the left, I have patients, whether they're in their 20s, 50s, 60s, and even older, who actually want Trump to be killed. And, you know, that's just, to me, sick, pathologic thinking. You should never want a president to be shot. And, you know, all you have to do is look at our history and the unrest that this could cause if it ever happened.

1:36:45But they're not looking at it like that. They're just their hatred towards Trump is so intense that they can't see the picture. What is it? Is it something about him that's doing that to them? Like he's just too combative and he's too strong? Or is it something about them that's doing that to them? Well, that's a very good question. And I think it's probably both. One of the things that I think it is, they just they still all these years later just cannot believe that Trump is the president. Trump the entertainer, Trump the businessman, and they question, well, how could someone like that become president?

1:37:23And they just don't understand it. They just haven't accepted it. And after Trump was elected the first time, I had patients who were telling me they were going to flee the country, withdraw their investments. The world is ending. The country's ending. Of course, none of them left the country. And then that mentality, those beliefs became hardened. and then fast forward to the second election, and it's even worse because now they want Trump dead. And, like, I don't care. Like, you should never hope for the president to be shot, whether it's Biden or Trump or any president. And if you look back— But what do you think—I was just going to say, again, we're speaking with Jonathan Alpert.

1:38:04His new book is Therapy Nation. I don't understand, though. Like, as somebody who's had multiple tussles with President Trump, when he's president, when he wasn't. I never got the TDS. And I look at the people who get the TDS and it almost seems like Ebola. You know, like if it strikes, it's really unfortunate. Once you get it, it's very deadly. It's very tough to get rid of it. The secret is not to get it, but it's not gonna strike everybody. Why are there so many people out there who can talk about Donald Trump by saying, this is something he's doing that's good. This is something I think that's bad.

1:38:43and now I'm going to go on with my life. Here's the rest of the news, et cetera. And there are others who he takes over, like Rosie O'Donnell. She blames her herpes on Donald Trump. She moved out of the country. Ellen DeGeneres moved out of the country. Like they get Bruce Springsteen, Robert De Niro. Like it's taken over their art, their personality, their lives. It's truly, it's like, how can some still function in this world? And even people like I just had, you know, some some things I don't like about him and things I do like about him. But there's there are people who really can't stand him who still don't have TDS.

1:39:21They don't think about him all the time. They don't make their life decisions about it. So what is it like is genuinely do you think these people are slightly untethered to begin with? Oh, absolutely. You know, so many people on the left, they they love to have a villain. They need someone to hate. And, you know, look at Luigi Mangione. I mean, he's probably the poster boy for this grievance culture. But yeah, many people need someone to hate. I would argue that a lot of people on the left that are so consumed by Trump, the figure, maybe they just don't have enough going on in their life outside of that.

1:39:56Yes. You know, whether it's a career, family, friends, hobbies, religion, whatever it is, there are so many things that are much more important than Trump. And friends and family should absolutely come before Trump. And unfortunately, we have mental health experts on national TV saying, if you don't like the way that your friends or family voted, just cut them out. You don't need to attend their Thanksgiving dinner. And that's the advice that we have on shows like MSNBC and the like. They're dividing our country. That's my subtitle, how they're dividing this country. And that's not the advice I would ever give.

1:40:40I would say, look, you should rise above politics. Like, where do you connect? If only we could get back to the days of maybe when Reagan was in office, neighbors could still get along despite having different signs in their front yard for whether it's Reagan or someone else. But we're not. We're so divided. And again, a lot of this I talk about in my book, how my profession is responsible for that. I actually know therapists who refuse to treat someone if they voted for Trump. Can you imagine? Oh, my gosh. No kidding. Can you imagine going into the ER, maybe wearing a MAGA hat, and the doctor turning you down?

1:41:25Oh, that's disgusting. I mean, that's truly a violation of the Hippocratic Oath. Again, the book is Therapy Nation, well worth your time. The author is Jonathan Alpert, my guest now. This discussion reminds me of this woman we featured on the show a couple of years ago, speaking of the young people, like signing on to every disorder, which somehow makes them feel good about themselves as opposed to bad about themselves. This was April 2023. It was in New Mexico. A woman was pulled over for driving on the wrong side of the road. She was clearly intoxicated and accused of such, and she played every victim card in the book.

1:42:02Look at this soundbite. I have like really bad social anxiety and stuff. I get you.

1:42:12Back back here, please.

1:42:15Curt Mills:Miss Perry? Am I? I'm non-binary, so. Okay. What do you go by? It's Kai. How can I refer to you tonight? Kai? Okay. Hey, I'm smelling alcohol. I know. How much have you consumed tonight? Like probably three drinks. I need to run you through some tests right now. Stand facing me, please. But I just want you to know that I also have very bad social anxiety. You and me both. Okay. Okay. Any recent head trauma, traumatic brain injuries, anything I need to know about? Uh, mental, yes. Focus on my finger, please. I am. You're just like trying to intimidate me. I don't know how I'm trying to do that.

1:42:53Curt Mills:This is the test. As you know, as an indigenous person and there's a bunch of sh** going around, I'm I'm sorry, but it's just for me to be on my toes. I'll get you. Can you remember that I told you that? I'm non-binary. Yeah, I'll try my hardest. I'll refer to you as Kai, right? Yes. Perfect. I need to know if you have any injuries or anything that would prevent you from doing a standard walk or a turn tonight. Mental health. Any physical injuries? Mentally, yeah. Can you not call me man, please? I'm trying my hardest. Okay, well. Okay. It means a lot to me. I'm trying my hardest. I don't feel like it means a lot.

1:43:33Okay, we get it. She goes on to say she suffers from generational trauma, Jonathan Alpert. We've got lots of these people. Well, yes. Go to Trader Joe's. Go to your local coffee shop. They're everywhere. Look, first of all, the cop was very respectful of her dozens of disorders. So good for the cop. But being non-binary, having social anxiety, being a hot mess or whatever else she say that does not give you a pass on driving drunk. Yes, they'll try anything. I mean, it just puts the lie, too, to these fake disorders, as does the book Therapy Nation. Check it out, How America Got Hooked on Therapy and Why It's Left Us More Divided by Jonathan Albert.

1:44:21Thank you so much. Back tomorrow. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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1:45:17Curt Mills:We are Marines. We were made for this.