Charlie Sheen on Getting Sober, the Highs and Lows of Fame, and Mending Relationships With Family | Ep. 1148

0:00Join me, Cindy Lauper, with Chef Michelle Bernstein and Dr. Panico to talk about psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, the potential connection and risk of developing permanent joint damage. Cosentix Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis 300 mg dose and adults with active psoriatic arthritis 150 mg dose. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentix Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections Some are fatal Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough Had a vaccine or planned to Or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen Serious allergic reactions and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur Learn more at 1-844-COSENTIX or cosentix.com slash cindy.

1:21million small businesses trust stamps.com. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

1:41Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We have an amazing show for you here. We've got Charlie Sheen and we couldn't wait to talk to Charlie Sheen. And we taped a conversation with Charlie Sheen on Tuesday of this week. And he was amazing, like completely honest and full of candor and self-deprecating and very reflective about the incredible life he's had. And we had always planned with his team, they're doing a press rollout around his book and his documentary on Netflix to air it on Friday. Well, as you know, something massive happened in the country between Tuesday and Friday involving another Charlie.

2:25And we asked ourselves what to do about the Charlie Sheen interview. And in the end, we've decided to put it out because I think we need it. I think it's good. We can't spend every moment in darkness and thinking about the awfulness that happened on Thursday. We can't. Okay, I'm losing track of my days on Wednesday. We can't, we shouldn't. We should take a moment to watch a silly comedy or listen to a podcast about decorating. I don't take your pick, sports. We have to continue on with our lives somewhat normally. And so we are going to air this. We also have an hour-long program that we're airing in tribute to Charlie Kirk.

3:08But I think you'll enjoy this hour with Charlie Sheen. I really did. I did not expect to like him as much as I did. And I just adore the guy now. And I think you will too. So enjoy. When you're buried in credit card and loan debt, it's human nature to put it off and say, I'm gonna deal with that later. If that is you, here's something you need to know. Done With Debt discovered a little known strategy that works in your favor to dramatically reduce or even erase your debt altogether. They can aggressively engage everyone you owe money to in September. And here's why. They know which lenders and credit card companies are doing year-end accounting and which need to cut deals.

3:47They even know which ones have year-end audits and need to get your debt off of their books. So consider getting started with Done With Debt now in September. Done With Debt accomplishes this without bankruptcy or new loans. In fact, most clients end up with more money in their pocket the first month. Get started now while you still have time. Go to donewithdebt.com. Speak with one of their specialists for free. Visit donewithdebt.com. Donewithdebt.com. In the U.S., there's a break-in every 26 seconds. But when intruders step near, SimpliSafe Home Security steps up. Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way.

4:24Using AI alerts, U.S.-based live agents help deter break-ins. SimpliSafe, no long-term contracts. Save 50 % on your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash sxm or with promo code sxm. Outdoor deterrence requires a SimpliSafe Active Guard outdoor protection plan starting at$49.99 a month. Visit SimpliSafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee 2012. Yo, it's Jay Uso from WWE. And I'm Jimmy Uso. Chumba Casino and WWE are hyped for the biggest event of the summer. Summer Slam. I know. I can't wait. There's nothing better to do while we're waiting than playing Chumba Casino.

4:57Sign up today and you could win a VIP experience. With Chumba Casino and with WWE for Summer Slam. So what are you waiting for? Play Chumba Casino and enter it for your chance to win. Let's Chumba. Only available in permitted states. No purchase necessary. See terms and conditions for details. VGW Group. Void or prohibited by law. 21 Plus. Sponsored by Chumpa Casino. Charlie Sheen is an American actor and an icon. His life has been a wild ride. Born to father actor Martin Sheen. What do you care if your brother ditches school? He achieved success seemingly overnight and went on to star in films like Platoon, Wall Street, and The Rookie.

5:33You want to do over? No, I don't want to do over. He eventually became the highest paid actor in television history as a star on the beloved sitcom Two and a Half Men. I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. But all of that success came with challenges, addiction and tumultuous relationships. Now Charlie Sheen is eight years sober and back to tell his story his own way. His new memoir, The Book of Sheen, tells all. And we do mean all. All the way we go. and a new Netflix documentary released at the same time, a.k.a. Charlie Sheen, hits this week, too. I lit the fuse, you know, and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

6:18I've read the book, I've watched the documentary, and I could not recommend both more than I do. Charlie, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you, man. It's an honor to be here. Thank you. I can't believe you didn't use a ghostwriter on this. thank you for the lovely intro firstly um you bet no i i uh there was talk of that early on and and i just thought that that wouldn't um that that wouldn't give me an opportunity to to to to deliver it um you know from the from the deepest reaches of myself you know um and and i and i knew that that it would to the reader that it would it would feel uh counterfeit you know no you can tell Well, it's you.

7:01I mean, your voice resonates, comes right off the page. And then if you read it while you're watching the documentary, it just validates that it's 100 percent you. It's all you. I feel like I know you so well now, having read this and watch this. And here's where I want to kick it off. OK, it seems like, you know, the addiction. I said to myself, who is Charlie Sheen? Like, what do I think of when I think of Charlie Sheen? Yes, icon, huge star, addict, of course, is one of the words, but truly also a genius. and those things are not unusually paired. It's not unusual to see those things together.

7:35But it seems like there was a feeling of inadequacy in, let's say, Carlos Estevez versus Charlie Sheen, the icon movie star that we know now. And my question in watching the film and reading the book was, where did that come from? And I'll just give you my own pitch on it. You tell me whether I have anything like the truth here. You had a very famous father. You then had a very famous brother, both of whom went before you and became famous in your brother's case or were famous in your dad's when you were, you know, not. You were just a regular kid. And I think it probably had a profound effect on you being around that level of wealth and attention directed at people around you but not at you that maybe planted some seeds that weren't potentially healthy for you in the long haul.

8:27What do you make of my theory? I think your theory is more than just a theory. I think you've tapped into some very solid truths about what motivated me or at least what drove me like it did. Because, you know, for so long I was Martin Sheen's son. And then you add to that, and Emilio Estevez's brother, and it just got to the point where, and then growing up on dad's sets and then going out with Emilio and his crew of newly famed-minted actors that he was making all his movies with. and just seeing the type of energy and the type of access and the type of fun and mischief that they all had such limitless access to that I just, I wanted a taste of it so badly.

9:38And it was, it felt so close, yet at the same time, it was light years out of reach, you know? Yeah, because just because you have fame in the family doesn't mean it's going to happen for you. And so even trying for it was pretty bold on your part. But your story is not one of somebody who knew he had to be an actor. You had the thespian gene. You were going to see it through. It was kind of like just happened. And then it happened really quickly. Yeah, no, I got a little bit of a warm up. I'd done a couple of films that nobody really cared about. I was just trying to get a SAG card, just trying to be a consistently employed actor and just kind of go from one job to the next and hopefully leave some good work behind.

10:26And then just, you know, I guess stuff happens when it's supposed to or at times how it's supposed to. And, you know, this cameo just falls out of the sky into my lap. And that was the film Ferris Bueller's Day Off. What do you care if your brother ditches school? Why should he get to ditch when everybody else has to go? You could ditch. Gosh, I'm only on film, like, probably less than three minutes. And even having done a couple of lead roles in Forgettable Films before that, and then that thing hits and it's that thing I talk about in the book where the day before in the grocery store, the girls thought I worked there, you know?

11:16And then Bueller hits and I'm no longer wearing that imaginary Vons vest, you know? Well, I love the story behind that. So Jennifer Grey did you a solid. She got you the audition. Yeah, she did. You nonetheless showed up late. You tried to stay up all night So you could look weathered and tired like your character and got a little too method, overslept the alarm, show up an hour and a half late. Jennifer Grey is like, what the hell, man? But it was a very interesting story you tell. You're very insightful about how John Hughes, you saw him and you expected he was just going to throw you out of there and you got something different.

11:55I thought he would continue the drubbing that she had initiated. But with him, it came to a Flintstones halt. And he just, like I say in the doc and the book, when he just took one look at me, he literally just said, oh, good, you're here. Let's get started. And just what that did for just calming my nerves and my confidence and just knowing that I was in the presence of a man that didn't care about anything that led up to the moment that he needed to get his director brain around. So, and then it's pretty cool in the movie. You can still see Jennifer. you can still see the trailing effects of some of the, some of her ire and animosity.

12:51Definitely. Yes, no, she was great in that scene too. And you stole the scene. And you could argue you stole the movie. And I thought about that with John Hughes. And I thought, okay, I understand why he did it. Because you walk in, you're very good looking. you are like oozing the right attitude for this guy, right? He's like, this is my guy. This is, I need him in this scene. And I think like that would come back to help you many times, your movie star appeal, your good looks, your charm. And, but it wasn't always a force for good. Like this, these things that would get you a pass from people like John Hughes that happened to you repeatedly in your life sound good on paper, but like maybe weren't because gave you a feeling of invincibility like you could get away with anything.

13:40And maybe that wasn't such a great thing for the other piece of Charlie Sheen, which is the addict piece. Yeah, no, certainly it was not a great thing. I mean, it's nice to be forgiven. Obviously, it's nice to be given second chances and all that good stuff. And we touch on this in the doc a little bit. What was interesting that even after not the biggest disasters or, you know, the furthest falls. But there was a pattern of, you know, fucking things up, sending shit off the rails, and then having a job literally on the other side of that event once I had, you know, once I dusted myself off and, you know, got back ready to work.

14:36So, yeah. But, you know, I think there's two sides to that. That didn't mean I had to take those jobs. But it also didn't mean that they always had to be there. Does that make any sense? I kind of went completely around that. I get it. But I just think, like, opportunity kept coming your way because you really do have true genius in this field. You can see it in the parts you play. You embody these characters. It seems to come easy to you, like to us lay people, it certainly does. And yet the universal rewards for those talents may not be a good thing. Like this kind of dawned on me while I was reading the book.

15:16Being universally rewarded for these preternatural gifts, whether it's appearance or abilities, could in some ways be a devil on your back. because a life without consequences can lead to some bad choices and a false feeling of invincibility. Of course it can. Of course it can. Yeah. And there's also this thing about not having to deal with a ton of failure at first. There's a little piece in the book where I mentioned that they teach us as kids, if at first you don't succeed, you try, try again. And if at first you do succeed, that's where that saying ends because it was never written. It doesn't exist, you know.

16:04And then it's like even talking about, you know, watching dad, you know, with his ascent to stardom and his brilliant career and then watching Emilio. So it's, you know, I thought that I would have a handle on what that might feel like once, you know, were I fortunate for it to happen to me as well. Even on a smaller scale at, you know, just a fraction of what they'd achieved. But there's no way to really prepare anyone for it. There's no way to, I guess in some way it'd be like asking, you know, Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron, you know, what it actually feels like to hit a home run. You know, they can describe the mechanics of it, but they can't really ever put you inside a moment that you have to inhabit to, you know, truly own that experience.

16:59And so watching it and then living it was a whole different reality. But then it's nice to have people you can check in with and say, hey, okay, so this happened with the thing. And then I saw how you dealt with that. And then any recommendations, any ideas. But even the advice sometimes, it's well-intentioned, but that doesn't mean that it's going to be useful. and I don't mean that dismissively just that that you know giving people advice for things that they have to experience yeah um doesn't work is that is that is that making sense is that yeah we all learn that as parents we all learn that as parents you know you want to spare your kids all the pain and anguish you experienced by telling them the life lessons you learned and I mean I've concluded 15 years in a motherhood it's not a complete waste of time but it's really close to a waste of time.

17:56They have to make their own mistakes in order to really learn the lessons. Sure. It's pretty close to a waste of time. That's brilliant. Pretty close. I can see, I'm sure Martin Sheen was like, Charlie, I'll walk you through exactly how to handle these massive challenges. He's a huge star, big movie star in his day, Apocalypse Now. And he's probably thinking, I can spare you so much grief. And then you learn the hard way, oh God, he's going to need to experience grief his own way. And it's going to be really public too, in your case. But isn't it interesting in, in, in the book, there's those, there's those early examples of that.

18:34He was the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the voice of advice that I would seek. He, he was the guy that I would go to. And, and, you know, the thing that happened with the Karate Kid, the thing that happened with that early MGM deal. And he, He was the guy I would go to. And then, of course, you know, when it came to Platoon and he advised against that as well is when I finally told him. I said, I got to just – I got to roll the dice on this one. Because you were offered the lead role in Karate Kid, ultimately played by Ralph Macchio. and you turned it down for some film with the word grizzly in it where you and a very young George Clooney and a young Laura Dern would make a movie no one would ever remember whatsoever.

19:24And your dad had told you you needed to say no to Karate Kid because you had committed to this other film. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's not the worst advice in the world if you just break it down just into the credo That he was, you know, intended just the noble essence of what he was trying to get me to pursue, you know, or to recognize, you know. So, but yeah, that was a hard one to watch and, you know, go get eaten by a bear and then watch Ralph, you know, do with that. But again - But I heard you say this in the documentary, no offense to Ralph Macchio, but he was kind of typecast after that. And Ralph did not go on to become some huge Hollywood movie star like you did.

20:17But he still had a really respectable and terrific career and still does great work to this day. But if you think of the Karate Kid, it's really difficult to picture anyone except him. Even if you've just seen the first one. I don't think I had the skills or the tools or the mindset or anything at that moment in time to pull off or bring to it what he was able to. So I think the film would have been different or would have started with me and that it finally just went, yeah, you know what? Let's go with that Italian kid that we had a couple days ago. So who knows? Instead of the Spanish kid. Instead of the Spanish kid.

20:58You come from a long line of Spanish people, like a whole family, like Ramon. He's in the documentary and Emilio. Yes, yeah. Your dad's name isn't really Martin. He's very Spanish. Do you connect at all with that piece of your lineage? Just through stories and just through relatives and just I don't go on the pilgrimages like my brother Ramon does and Emilio and dad. And I guess I lean more into the Irish side of our roots. No offense taken. Yeah, I know exactly where you're going with that. I would say your love of beautiful women, that's very Spanish. So maybe it's in you in other ways that are more silent.

21:43All right, so now you get cast in Platoon. And this, too, was a role that was supposed to be Emilio's. This was a role that was supposed to go to somebody else that you got because of timing and he took on another project. One thing led to another. So you wind up getting this role. And that was it, right? Platoon was the big before and after, like, now I'm a household name. There's BP and there's AP. Did you ever get caught in a mistake that you just can't get out of? Yeah, before Platoon, after Platoon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, again, oh, hey, there's a nice photo. Johnny, what a trip. That's a great one.

22:25That feels like 100 lifetimes ago, you know? You were a baby. Yeah, right? Yeah, we didn't know what we'd created, you know? We thought the vets would appreciate it. We thought, you know, we thought other filmmakers would think we'd given a, you know, taken a pretty good shot at it. But no, we did not expect that the entire world was going to join in the celebration. You know, it was it was a pretty exciting time. The first real movie about the war in Vietnam is Platoon. Then you get the kind of fame that's like you walk into a football stadium and everybody knows you. Not to mention you could sleep with any woman in there, which, you know, like that's very heady, hugely heady.

23:12And at the same time, you're hanging out with all these big stars. Like, I didn't know anything about your long friendship with Nick Cage. Hello. That's amazing. Yeah. And I think what's in the doc with Nicholas and myself and what's in the book, I think there's some really cool, really just memorable, you know, unforgettable stuff between us. You know, it's not all in there. And that's just, hey, there we are. And that's out of respect to him and myself. And, you know, there's some stuff that it's just probably better that it just it stays between the people and exists only in that moment in time.

23:48But I think there is enough there to just give a taste, just give a vibe of the kind of the energy that we were both. You know, it was weird. It's like we found each other right when we needed to. and it wasn't a competition thing, but we just, I think I talk about something in the book that, you know, something about, we're both on the verge of complete fission and I brought the missing neutrons, you know, stuff like that. It's interesting. I just spoke with Nicholas about an hour ago today and this dude at 9.01, in LA, knowing it was past midnight East Coast, downloaded my audio book and listened to it, like started it last night and finished it today and wrote to me, wrote this beautiful penning of just love and support.

24:55And he was just such passion and excitement. And I just, I called him and it was really, that was just like an hour ago, you know, because when you write about people. About the disclosures you made. He did not care about the disclosures you made about him. No, he loved the stories. He loved the writing. He just loved that he was a part of it. It was so cool. It was such a, just a loving, I don't want to call it an endorsement. And it was just the kind of support that I would have hoped for. But when you get it for real, you know, especially from him, it was pretty special. And I hope he doesn't mind that I'm sharing this with the world, you know.

25:39Now, I have to imagine you've gotten a phone call from literally every gay man who's ever met you and has your number saying, I see a window. Is it still open? I mean, not exactly. No, it hasn't gone there because that was a pretty isolated thing. And again, that's not about shame or that's not about anything like that. That's just about trying to just be respectful of other people's privacies and stuff like that. But that is kind of funny. Yeah, I actually did have that thought. What's it going to be like now in the streets? Am I going to be getting the thing? You know what I'm saying? Yes, you're going to be getting the thing.

26:19If I do, awesome. So you're saying there's a chance. For the listening audience, Charlie reveals in the book that he, while on drugs, had a couple of interludes crossing over to the other side. He's not declaring that he's gay or bi or anything else, but is just being honest about his life, intoxicated and high. And that's why I say something. Some will see a window. That's all right. That's flattering. I mean, what the hell, right? It's one moment in a very long life. and I said something the other day that I guess I just wanted to have just a little bit more in common with Richard Pryor and Marlon Brando and Mick Jagger.

27:00Mick Jagger, that's who I was thinking of. That's pretty good company. That's some hall of famers right there, you know? But it does have to be a relief. You know, you write about how you paid people blackmail money to keep that secret. You came out a long time ago as HIV positive. You had to pay people to keep that secret. I mean, this is a lot to be laboring under. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. And to always, anytime the phone rings or you see an email from a lawyer or just, or a manager that always talks to that lawyer. And it's just, it just got to the point of this, you know, if this is prison, the only thing that's missing is the bars and the guards, you know.

27:40So, but, but yeah, and, and, and, you know, I was talking to Emilio and, and, and he said, he said, are you, are you, are you cool that like all this stuff is, you know, is, is out there and like that. And I said, well, you know, I gotta be honest, man, it's, it feels a lot better, you know, out there than it did in here for so long. And the other thing is, like, don't put something in a book and in a doc that come out a day apart unless you're going to be willing enough, courageous enough, open enough to discuss those things. You know? Very true. Because I did the GMA piece. I did the GMA piece with Strayham, which I think went pretty good, right?

28:29Yeah. And then one of the producers came up and said, wow, that was so courageous and you didn't dodge it. And I said, well, yeah, I already wrote about it and spoke about it and put it in. And she said, oh, no, no, you'd be amazed how many people put stuff in a book. And then when it comes time to promote it or discuss it or whatever, they completely lose their minds. They just want to run and hide. because I guess they never or they didn't see the connection between like, okay, it goes here and then does that. It's still, you know, you're responsible for all of it. And sometimes you get the annoying publicist who says, don't ask about this.

29:14Meanwhile, the principal is fine asking about it. So oftentimes it's a function of that. Having worked on the Today Show, I know that the PR people can be absolutely awful. and not really carry this guy's message. They're telling you not to ask something like you've just read it in the book and then you want to tell them, but it's here. Yeah, it's like, how do I know this? I know this because he wrote it. Like he told me. Right. I didn't pull it out of the ether. Right? So some are good. Yeah. Some are awful. I mean, that was actually one of the questions I had for you was not about a PR person, but I was on Fox News in 2011 when you had the two and a half men cancellation and the winning and like the super torqued up Charlie with all the testosterone you write about.

29:58Like it was something like 4 ,000, which is, I don't know what number is supposed to be normal, but it's like two digits, not three and not four. I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. I'm different. I just have a different constitution. I have a different brain. I have a different heart. I have a different, you know, I get tiger blood, man. You don't worry that you're going to die when you take that many drugs. Dying's for fools. So you got fired from two and a half men and you went on this like winning tour and what I see in the documentary really jumped out at me, which was, this is my opinion, totally douchebag managers who exploited you.