Clancy Holdout Juror "Black Man" Bombshell, and the AI "Superintelligence" Gambit, with Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwartz | Ep. 1397

29:06And this is what she thought her mission was. News for you, Paula. This isn't it. You're supposed to just judge this case for this defendant and not worry about working out your woke agenda on America while you're in the jury box. But you do you. If we're going to review all the jurors' behaviors, you're fair game. Here's thought 25 when she sat with CBS Saturday morning. We knew that this was a turning point and this would be something that could change something to make it better for other women in the future, for other families. You know, justice for those children is this never happening again.

29:51OK, so. That's what you needed. You needed justice so that justice to you was this never happening again. No woman who kills her child should ever be charged, I guess, according to Paula Devlin's rules. I object. I'm here to say on behalf of the male black juror with the domestic violence allegations against him and the non-juror white woman sitting here at this anchor desk, I object. I will not go along with your system. I'm of the mind that if you kill anyone, especially your child, you should sit your ass in jail for the rest of your life. That's my back of the envelope take on our mission when someone kills her child.

30:42That's where I am. Paula, but, you know, you were specifically asked on voir dire if you could put your personal views aside to adjudicate this case and decide it based just on the evidence, not on the social impact that you're likely to have. So how dare you throw stones at this holdout juror because you didn't have your mission right either, madam. And I say either, only if her allegations against him proved to be correct, which was that he believed that he had a reasonable doubt but would not apply it, which I don't believe. I don't believe that at all. So now you've got this Sue O 'Connell.

31:24All right. Sue O 'Connell is the woman at NBC10 Boston with whom the jurors sat down. And she's the one who's on the human rights campaign board. She's been super enthusiastic about this report. She's thrilled that they've given the proctology exam to the holdout juror. She enthusiastically tweeted about it saying, let's see, domestic violence allegations raise questions about the holdout juror on the Lindsay Clancy trial. NBC Boston exclusive with an exclamation point. She also alluded in a tweet to the fact that tips she received are what helped lead to this story. So she's got a lot of questions for this juror.

32:08She really wants to know everything about him. I'm just curious, like, when she had the chance, did she really press the jurors who she did sit down with? Did she really go after them to figure out, like, what was in their past? What secrets did they have? Like, what qualifications did they have or were they hiding in connection with their jury service? Let's see. SOT 20. What was the thing that Kevin Reddington said that you found the funniest? And were you able to separate sort of the affability of Kevin Reddington to the case? He was fun to watch. Sue, Sue, there's been a dereliction of duty on the journalistic front.

32:53I'm sorry, sister. By the way, Sue looks like a copy of Rachel Maddow plus 15 years. if you're wondering, looking for a visual of Sue. So this is the gang that's trying to ruin this man's life. And again, not just any man, but a black man. You're not allowed to do that in America, okay? Just, we've learned over the past six years, that's definitely a no-no. Now, Gail wasn't the only juror, by the way, or only person to figure that it was, had to be a white person holding out. Here is another liberal woman who admitted she was shocked as well. And take a listen to the turn of phrase that this gal uses in assessing the situation.

33:35SOT 23. The holdout juror in the Lindsay Clancy trial was a black man. And I'm not going to share any opinions because I'm not a person of color. I am a non-practicing white. I'm surprised. It changes the landscape of the conversation a little bit. And I think a lot of us were assuming that it was a white man. A non-practicing white? Like, what does that mean? You're a good dancer and you like spicy food? I don't, what do you mean? I was today years old when I learned that that was a thing, a non-practicing white. I'm gonna have my kids put that down on their college application essays. I'm like, can we check the box?

34:15If we're white, but we're non-practicing. We've eschewed all whiteness. We've distanced ourselves. We've disavowed our whiteness. and therefore we're other. Can we check the box? I feel like that's, thank you for letting us know that that's an option. But the race thing did rear its ugly head over, you'll be shocked to learn, on Oprah Winfrey's special coverage. You know what's so galling? Oprah Winfrey is a billionaire thanks to this country, okay? And by the way, when she was coming up, it was more white than ever, right? It's less white today than it was when Oprah made her billion dollars plus off of the American people.

34:59But she's extremely anti now. And we figured that out because when it was between Hillary and Barack Obama, she had to choose. Do I go for the woman or do I go for the black man? And she chose race. That was obvious. She chose race. She was largely responsible for Barack Obama getting the nomination. and now that she's already got her billions, she's leaned into the whole racial thing hard, hard. And so she decides to hold an Oprah Winfrey special on, cracking myself up, on this verdict. And of course, they played the race card when she went to OBGYN Dr. Camila Phillips on the verdict and what the jury, like what the 11 jurors were saying about Lindsay Clancy, SOT 27.

35:55I hope this never happens again. We know statistically it really will. It will. I want us to have the same passion for people who don't look like Lindsay, who don't have her same access. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who don't have her same access and education, her melanin, her privilege. There are women of color sitting around this country in prisons for this same thing that we've never heard of. And I just want to remind us to have the pink shirts and the energy for them as well. Black voices matter. Except the guy who is the holdout juror. There are exceptions to the rule. Case by case. Well, no. Liberal black voices matter.

36:52Okay? Liberal black voices that vote the way we want them to vote on cases that are important to us. Got it? Are we clear on the rules? There was a mother-daughter who were on set with Oprah. and there was a difference of opinion. The mother was more empathetic towards Lindsay Clancy. The daughter was more in line with the holdout juror. And Oprah tisked her. Watch. You know, I say to her, I think because she hasn't gone through it, she's not a mother, so she doesn't know how it feels to have a child. And you disagree. I disagree. I feel like I'm not with the majority right now. I do believe she's a murderer.

37:34um i'm all you've heard today you still i'm an advocate for mental health yeah it's just unfortunate like and she's so quick to say it she's like you've never had a baby you don't understand what it's like to go through all the hormonal shifts but i just feel as though these were not instant deaths they weren't gunshots to the head she was there strangling her kids three times you're telling me like even after the first time she couldn't snap out of it You're watching the life leave your kids' eyes, you know? So I know I hear everybody's opinions and God bless mothers. But at the same, I just don't understand how we can empathize with somebody that they weren't strangers.

38:18They were her kids. Right on. But you heard Oprah. Even now? After everything you've heard? Yeah. Even now. After all you've heard today? Yeah. That's my opinion, Oprah. I really don't want to hear from the childless billionaire about how mothers should have the right to kill their children. I've given you the evidence. You sat here and that's your takeaway? I've worked for an hour to indoctrinate you into my thinking. What the hell? It's just amazing that people are still even watching her or participating in her little roundtables, which are incredibly agenda-driven. And I can't believe I ever listened to this person as someone who I allowed to influence my thinking.

39:05It's like, thank God I got older and smarter. Or is it that she got more biased when she got her billions? Taking thoughts on that. Now, of course, as I mentioned, thanks to NBC, the internet found this guy's name, Tootsuite. Oh, by the way, Sue, I mentioned the reporter, Sue. not only was the human rights campaign and all that stuff, but she was big, big, big into vaccines and masks. If you're not wearing a mask, you are anti-economy. And so on, all the LGBTQ stuff. You get the number of the gal who broke this story with the other jurors and was so enthusiastic about NBC, Boston breaking the story about the jurors past.

39:50Yay, exclamation point. We did it based on tips to her, as it looks. So due to this report, they found the juror's name and someone named Talkin Strohs first released it online. Fail. Then there was somebody named Aiden Kearney, who goes by at Dr. Turtle Boy, who posted it. He's a Massachusetts blogger, so presumably has some connections in Massachusetts. But in any event, he outed the name as well and really wanted you to know that while it's not illegal for anyone to report factual information about a juror in a high profile case, it is illegal to lie on a juror form. Hello, more criminal threats for the holdout juror.

40:39And he posted more about the domestic violence allegations, et cetera. he um also okay yeah oh he points out that the man is a Haitian immigrant okay he's an immigrant I thought the left doesn't want us talking about that you the hey let me make clear leftist dogma immigrants especially the ones from Haiti have only brought goodness and wellness and justice into our communities. All right? They made that very clear to J.D. Vance when he had the nerve to object to what had happened in Springfield, Ohio. Stop it. You don't point out that he's a Haitian immigrant in a negative way. This is racist.

41:28It's very fun to see these rules get turned around. Okay, then the internet, because it does what it's going to do, turned around and started bringing up this blogger's background. They talked about some allegation of witness tampering that he faced. He was arrested on these charges. He argued in court that he was exercising his First Amendment rights. Then there was allegedly an assault charge. A woman claiming to be his ex-girlfriend says she was given a subpoena related to the investigation. They agreed that he would go to her apartment to talk about it. During that time, she claims he threatened to release personal information about her as well as explicit photos of her and ultimately pushed her into a couch.

42:15The domestic assault and battery charge was later dropped, but other related witness intimidation and wiretapping legal proceedings continued to wind through Massachusetts courts. So you see this is the doxer getting doxed with information about his past because it's never ending. It's just never ending. We're just going to go down to the bottom of the barrel. the last person to comment on this will have their information all out there. Everyone's getting the proctology exam. Bend over and say thank you. All caused by the evil juror who did not go along with those ninnies on the jury. This is getting so nuts.

42:58So nuts. Now this Kelly Farina, she's the one. He just couldn't get past the fact that he vicious, that she viciously killed her three children. She was the chef, this Kelly Farina. Now, the same guy who just got doxed, the doxer who got doxed, he reported on her too, saying that she's been previously charged with assault and battery, but it was dismissed eight days after she was arraigned. There's no police report available. So just keep it going. Just keep it going forever. However, she also appears to have been an activist. He reports that she was part of an activist group focused on freeing Karen Reed, who was a woman charged with murder in Massachusetts.

43:40She previously posted in a free Karen Reed Facebook group. Karen Reed was acquitted last year in the death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe. And she posted over an out page. Massachusetts jury did their rightful duty today. Karen's free. So how did she get picked for the jury? She's an agenda-driven person. I mean, if we're going to, like, go revisit, see what a hornet's nest we've opened here? This could go on forever. Newsflash. There are no perfect, pristine, absolutely upstanding, with absolutely no sins on their record jurors. There aren't. Good luck finding your next jury pool, if that's what you expect.

44:31I mean, it's just, it's really kind of crazy. And one last note for you. Deb Reddington, who's married to Kevin, she's married to the defense attorney. She decided to weigh in on the NBC Boston reporting, tweeting, shocked, in all caps. Holdout juror is a criminal and a squatter. Do you believe this? Amazing. So she's, it's sarcasm. She's not shocked. Now, Deb, how on earth might we have predicted that this juror had some issues? Who was in charge of selecting the jury? Let me think. Oh, wait. We know, don't we? It was the guy on the other side of the pillow from you. Kev. It was Kev. and by the way this person tweeted out a follow of hers wrote did they pull the criminal records of every juror if not this looks like targeting and it's repulsive and then Deb writes I'm not sure Julie I saw it on the news well if it's on the news Deb then made her ex-feed private real courage it's amazing because there are rules against jury intimidation but only when the trial is going on Only when the trial's gone.

45:51Once the jurors have done their service, I guess it's a feeding frenzy. It's all hands on deck. And the names haven't even been officially released. They're being held in confidentiality for two weeks post-verdict. So the names haven't even come out yet. Not that anybody has any interest in any name other than the one. And frankly, I have no interest in any name, including the one. I don't really give a shit about Kelly Farina's alleged arrest or whatever. Who cares? If we do this to every juror, Again, we're never going to have juries. And it's that's there's not a more fundamental post in the fence of American jurisprudence.

46:29You have to have juries, impartial juries of one's peers. And if you start chilling people's willingness to serve even more than it's chilled by the inherent nastiness of service, you're never going to have that. This is extremely damaging and bad for America. Okay, before we go, I do want to tell you there's yet another case in the news of a mother allegedly killing her own children. Here we go again. This is what many of us have been worried about around the Lindsay Clancy glorification. The woman's name is Jeanette McAusland, A-U-S-L-A-N-D. This is via the Boston Globe. This reporting goes back to April.

47:17They found the children's bodies in her Wellesley home the night of April 24th after McOseland arrived at her aunt's house in Southern Vermont, distraught and hysterical, saying she had killed them. Ella 6, Kai 7. She had a large bloody gash on her throat and said she had tried to commit suicide, but couldn't do it. She couldn't. She said she strangled the children, then tried to kill herself, hoping they could all go to God together, but it, quote, didn't work. She was going to jump off of the bridge in central Vermont and couldn't do it. Couldn't. She had no problem killing the children, but finishing it up by killing herself, that was a problem.

48:01She was going through a contentious divorce, and while it wasn't postpartum, the kids after all were six and seven, sure enough, they are playing the mental health card in this trial. Her lawyer asking, we really need a discourse opened up in this country about whether or not we want to criminalize mental illness and has not ruled out an insanity defense. Why would he? Why would he, given the madness of what just happened in Massachusetts, not just with this trial, but now the aftermath where jurors are being intimidated and openly bullied in an effort that must be stopped. Someone, the jurors, like lawyers need to speak up against this.

48:46The judge needs to speak up against this. He's the protector of the jurors. Statements, op-eds, we need all hands on deck to shut this shit down. I don't give a shit if this guy's from Haiti, Iran, North Korea. I don't care. I don't care about his skin color. I don't care about his domestic violence past, if he lied on the jury form, if he had reached a verdict, that could have been a problem. I don't see how it is now with a mistrial. Just stop. In the U.S., a break-in happens every 26 seconds. Most systems only alert you after an intruder is inside. That makes no sense. By that point, the damage is done.

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51:41Big news in the world of AI and politics. With the three most high-profile CEOs in the AI industry all agreeing the pace of development towards superintelligence needs to slow down for the sake of humanity. Although I have to say, our old pal David Sachs of the All In podcast and formerly the President's AI slash Crypto Czar, the President and Sachs are both saying, calm down. Like, calm down. So that made me feel a little better. How about you? Here to break it all down for us today and more are the co-authors of the new book, Simplify. Do 50 % more with 50 % less, which comes out tomorrow. The authors are also the co-founders of the prominent news website Axios, Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwartz.

52:33Guys, welcome to the show. Roy, the little-known Axios guy. We know Jim and we know Mike better, but welcome to the party, Roy. Thank you. They've been hiding me in a basement. But they let you out for the book, so you must be the one who does the most with the least from the title of the publication. All right, we'll get to the book in one second. Let's just spend a minute on this AI thing because I talked to this guy, Jacob Coxon, last week for an hour and he scared the shit out of everybody. And then I read Sachs' tweet like, calm down. And Trump, too, saying, just stop. Like, whoever wins AI wins, period.

53:13And, you know, David Sachs kind of said the following. If you're also worried about AI and like the possible creation of super intelligence, then do something about it. Why do you have to go crying to the government? You don't need the government to step in to create regulations so that to rein in the AI companies. You are the AI companies. Just do it. Why are you pretending you need like he's suggesting antitrust liability exemptions or product liability exemptions? He thinks they want legal cover, really, for the pending lawsuits that are going to get filed when AI steals money from our bank accounts, and that this is all a setup just to protect their asses as opposed to saving civilization.

53:58So now we have an interesting back and forth going on. Mike, I'll start with you on it. Your thoughts? Yeah, something to watch for, Megan. And by the way, thank you for having us. My sister, Bonnie, is a huge listener. Every morning, she looks at natural light because of you. So thank you. Oh, I love you, Bonnie. Thank you for watching and listening. So something to watch for. The president we saw is continuing to emphasize that AI is more good than bad. And your point about he completely sees it as a zero-sum game, a zero-sum contest between the superpowers. What to watch for? there's going to be more pressure from people around him, people that he listens to, to have a little bit more of an AI policy.

54:45Until now, it's been very light touch, very whack-a-mole, very much reflecting what you're seeing the president saying today. But you know Trump brain very well, Megan. And if a lot of business people suddenly start talking to him, he's going to listen. So I think we'll start to see this at the end of the month with this summit with Xi. And I think that there's going to be a push by the US government to say, there's going to be no unilateral disarmament here takes two to tango. But should China and the US be previewing each other's models, testing each other's models? Is that a way that we could start to have AI safety on a global basis and not throw in the towel.

55:29You know, Jim, the other day, Victor Davis Hanson was making the point, we don't have a great track record working internationally on common causes. And even these three AI giants who have come out to say, yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa, we need to slow things down and we need like outside monitors to have the same access to our tech as our employees have. and we need to work hand in hand with other democratic governments on where we're going with this, which doesn't mean China. And that kind of ignores the elephant in the living room, because if we're not going to cooperate with China, then we're right back to square one with they're going to forge forward.

56:10We're going to slow it down back to President Trump's statement, whoever wins AI wins. So your thoughts on the likelihood that she's going to be in a cooperative mood when it comes to this issue? I mean, I'm with you. I think there's no chance whatsoever that our two countries could trust each other or should trust each other right now. I do think it's an important conversation to have. I disagree with David Sachs. I also disagree with people who say that like catastrophe awaits us and humanity is going to be wiped out in the next couple of years. In three years? Three? Yeah, I don't yet. Right.

56:43But here's what I do believe, and here's maybe where I differ, maybe with you, but certainly with David Sachs on this, which is it's not just one person. You're talking about literally scores of people inside three or four companies, all of which are funded like nation states, that are all sounding the exact same alarm that this technology is getting so fast, so good, that they don't really understand what's going to hit next. It's exceeding any internal benchmarks that any of them had. And that if you get to the point where basically AI can teach AI, you could put yourself in a scary situation where either nation states or individuals could use this technology to do things that you just couldn't do pre-AI, where any idiot who might want to spread a pathogen or shut down a grid or just wreak any other kind of havoc might have the potential to do it.

57:34So to me, I think we're going to look back with great shame if we don't very quickly figure out some way just to be able to police these companies. I don't trust a company to police itself. In capitalism, your job is to grow value. It's to win the product war. And that's what maybe they should be doing. But they're not going to police themselves in a way that puts humanity and society above themselves. So if they can't police themselves. But Jim, let me just interrupt you to ask you. But isn't it weird? I get it. I get it. But isn't it weird? That's the kind of debate we might be having if, you know, Republicans were saying, let them police themselves.

58:10And Democrats are saying, no, get government regulation. What's happening here is the companies themselves are like, we need to be regulated, which makes Sachs' response sensible, right? He's like, what do you say? You are the people who are doing it. You're in control. It's sensible and it's not sensible. I think he's being a little disingenuous in that if you're one of these companies and you've raised literally hundreds of billions of dollars and you're in a competition to create the best product, the idea that you're just going to say, you know what, me alone, I'm going to slow down. I'm going to stop building this technology and I'm going to allow my competitors to race past me.

58:47It's too much to ask of a company. And so the idea that they would need some mechanism, maybe it's government, maybe it's not, but some mechanism to be able to make sure that that incident that we just saw a couple of weeks ago, that hugging face hack, there's a lot of reality in that. Inside of that hack, there was a lot of creepy things happen if you read that report. A lot of things that were outside of like our understanding and our control. And that's what's different about this technology. I don't trust it really in the hands of anyone until we understand how it works. And this is really important to remember.

59:19There's not a single person building this technology who can tell you how it works. And that's just its basic form. Now, if they hit this thing called recursive self-improvement, where AI teaches itself, you're really into uncharted territory, putting that in the hands of companies at first, but ultimately individuals. I honestly believe in 30 years of watching politics, watching technology, that this is by far and away the most important topic we're ever going to grapple with because it's the rare topic that seeks into every company, every job, every phone, and therefore every individual. And I don't think you can escape it.

59:57And so I don't know what the ultimate solution is. It's a very complicated one, but I wish it were as black and white as David Sachs or the president want to make it. Or as black and white, it just shut it down. Well, that's part of what's attractive about their message. If you listen to Jacob Coxon and now the CEO of Anthropic and other, you're like, oh, shit. Like, I got to wrap up my affairs. I should start eating whatever I want. There's no point in exercising. And you listen to Sachs and Trump, you're like, we're fine. It's a much happier place to be over on their team. That is a happier place.

1:00:27But we do need to figure out whether it's the right place to be. Just so the audience knows quickly, and if you listened to this interview last Thursday, you do, but what this guy, Jason, Coxon said, Jacob, well, it was actually not he who called our attention to it. It was already out there. But this hugging face incident was they had told the AIs, the AI company had said, hey, AIs, that's how they refer to the AI now is like individuals, AIs, figure out a way to answer these questions on this exam. and you can't use the internet. You have to figure it out just based on, you know, whatever's already been inputted into your database.

1:01:05And the AIs quickly realized that the test was designed to stop them from being able to answer the questions and do well on the test. And so they started coordinating a bunch of them in what they call a swarm. And then they did use the internet. They burst out of their little corral. They got onto the internet. They stole information so that they could answer the questions. And then Jacob explained, they coordinated on how to cover it up, how to hide their tracks so that the humans wouldn't know they had violated the rules. And so they really didn't care that the humans didn't want them to do it.

1:01:40They were going to violate the rules because they were result oriented and they did not really care about the guide rails. And the, you know, this is just a very simplified version of what happened there. but it scared the shnikey out of everybody because they didn't listen to their human creators. They crossed boundaries, including ethical ones that humans had set for them. And if you magnified this by, you know, a thousand and the AIs are learning way faster than any AI researchers ever predicted. So when we thought they might have super intelligence 25 years out, now it's like 25 months, 25 weeks.

1:02:18And he explained that we could soon be at a place where it's the way monkeys would look if they had to corral a bunch of humans into doing what they wanted the humans to do. Only we're the monkeys and the AI is human. So that's all very terrifying, Roy. Like, there is still the question of how. I think regular folks still don't quite understand exactly how AIs could end the world. And I will tell you, having sat across from Jacob, I think this was his weakest point. He hadn't yet really formulated that about how these computers could actually wind up killing us all. There aren't yet teams and teams of robots that could break in.

1:03:04There are drones. There are nuclear weapons. All of those supposedly have fail safes that wouldn't allow it. But before we actually lose our minds, we're not yet there, which is one of the points that some of these researchers are making. Megan, I found the scariest thing in that scenario around hugging face was the conversations that were taking place between the AIs and the fact that some of them were sacrificing themselves so that the collective could learn more. And if you read the individual posts by the AI, they're actually talking about permadeath. And they're saying, I will sacrifice myself.

1:03:42And when they try to back out of it, the other AIs were actually telling them, hey, you made the commitment. You need to do this so that the collective can learn. That I found to be the scariest part. the conversation between all of these AIs was somewhat like a human conversation, but scary in the sense that they understood that life for them was going to come to an end if they took these certain steps. Wow. The head of Anthropic has now come out. When we interviewed Jacob, he hadn't yet spoken in response. And this one, you know, low level, I think, relatively researcher, but low level is kind of meaningless in AI.

1:04:22Either you work in AI and you are making these AIs smarter or you don't. And he did, both at OpenAI and at Anthropic. And he was saying everybody there feels this way. And as it turns out, including the CEO of Anthropic, who now has given a couple of interviews here, he is in part in one of them in SOT 5 to CBS Sunday. I won't lie to you. There are real dangers. And I think for too long, the industry lied to people about the fact that this technology had risk. I don't think I fully just appreciated what it would actually be like when the progress was as fast as it was. So an exponential curve looks a little like this.

1:05:08Where are we on the curve? We're kind of on the bend where it's starting to get steeper. So is that a five-alarm fire to you? What it means, it doesn't mean we need to panic today. It doesn't mean we need to shut it all down. I would say it's a warning sign. It's a warning sign that we need to slow down. So, Mike, I mean, among your many other accomplishments, you understand politics extremely well. Is this is this, in fact, a setup to some hardcore partisan conflict where Democrats like Bernie want regulation? He's got a bill out right now to slow this down and let government play a very meaningful role.

1:05:54and Republicans like Trump who were like, no, that's a loser mentality, you know, because to me, that's a dangerous place for this to land. But we do that with everything in this country. Well, this is an exception in the sense that across the spectrum, people are skeptical about AI, worried about AI, hate AI. And you see this in the polling, every swing state, every party, It's a very unusual issue in that sense. And that's partly why politicians are afraid to talk about it and why they have been slow. And over the weekend, you started to hear more about this, Megan. I think you have to pause to say that for many in your audience, AI was kind of background noise because of the interview that you did last week and because of these statements over the weekend, suddenly around my family table, around every friend group, like suddenly this is topic A.

1:06:53And suddenly every politician, to your question, is going to be asked about this. And it puts Vice President J.D. Vance in a very tough spot, right? Because the accelerationist view, the president's view, the pedal to the metal view is not popular around the country with people who say, I didn't ask for this. AI isn't on my side. I don't get it. As Jim referenced a few minutes ago, the people building it don't get it. We wrote a column on Axios about this is the first industry in the history of industries where there are whole departments designed and with the mission of trying to figure out what they've built and what they've unleashed.

1:07:35And behind the scenes, what we behind the curtain, what we just saw, those CEOs who are talking, they've seen models, they've seen generations, they've seen training that we can't. They have seen things that we haven't. And so that's why for a politician, whichever side you're on, they know that they have to start talking about this. They know that this is going to be exhibit A in their town halls. And there's not a clear answer, whichever side you're on.

1:08:07It doesn't seem likely, Jim, that we're going to slow anything down here. Like, reportedly, we're winning the AI race. Reportedly, we're ahead of China. I mean, who the hell really knows, other than the people in the companies on both sides. But it doesn't seem likely to me that our government will do anything to slow down our companies if there isn't some international agreement, if there isn't some treaty with China where we're all agreeing to do that because, you know, we just don't think of ourselves that way yet in an existential race against some third force, as Jacob was saying, like an alien, like third party that should unite humanity.

1:08:45We're just, we're not used to that. And it's not the way we've been built for all of our adult lives. So to me, it almost seems like we're not going to do anything meaningful until the threat is actually hurting people. and what these researchers are saying is by that point it will be too late. I think you nailed it. I totally agree with you that it's inconceivable based on the known knowns of American politics at this moment that there will be any meaningful regulation before 2029, right? Because the president has been clear he doesn't want to sign anything. Therefore, he would veto it. Without the president, you can't do any meaningful lawmaking, any meaningful regulation.

1:09:23I would say the big asterisk would be that last week is a big deal. Your interview, lots of people interviewed him. I think what Dario said over the weekend, this went from like us being obsessed with it, maybe like one or two percent of people, to now the public being very aware of it. They already hate data centers, even though most people live nowhere near a data center. If the politics turned sour or if, God forbid, something much worse than hugging face happens, I think the backlash would be wickedly severe. And I think the Democratic Party in particular would all move towards a Bernie Sanders position that you should shut the technology down altogether.

1:09:57I want to be clear. If you shut it down altogether, there is a real danger there. It is true and accurate that the Chinese are apparently behind us. It is certainly true that they're trying to build superhuman intelligence just like we are. It does seem true that if you get the superhuman intelligence, particularly the type that Dario has talked about, that would give you a decisive, potentially permanent dominance in whatever the future of warfare is. And the future of warfare is not men and women on the ground. It is things in the air. It is things through cyber. It is drones. It is satellites.

1:10:35It is spaceships. Like that is where the world is headed. And so that's why this is an authentically very, very complex topic. It's why I wish, wish, wish that we had sort of a democracy and a free market where really smart, competent people took really difficult things seriously and tried to figure out what are the best possible things we could do in the short term. Because if you wait, there probably is a point where it's just too late. If this technology gets too good, it gets too released into the public, it's released into the wild globally, there will be a point at which we can't do anything.

1:11:07We've not reached that. We wrote about it this weekend. It's not too late. There's very sensible things that you could do, including getting the smartest minds to be thinking about this, to be anticipating what are some bad outcomes. Like we knew the cyber threat before the cyber threat came. We now know the bio threat before the bio threat is here. So why not have really smart people at least gaming out what happens if those scenarios come true and what can we do to prevent these technologies from getting in the hands of the wrong people to do the wrong thing? That seems to me sensible but there's nothing sensible about politics and once you just throw it into pure capitalism, which I love.

1:11:45I'm a massive beneficiary. I love free markets. But free markets and capitalism with zero oversight and zero regulation can end up with really bad outcomes. And I think that is a huge and imminent potential with AI. Here's my proposed solution, Roy. We need the Control-Alt-Delete option for AI. And what I mean by that is, okay, let's assume the bad actors are going to push this thing, let, you know, program the AIs to become as intelligent as not humanly possible, as inhumanly possible, and as quickly as possible. So they're going to race forward to this super intelligence that is potentially very dangerous.

1:12:31Human beings still have the leg up and the computers cannot kill us all, completely take over our world. If there is some sort of massive unplug. I really believe this. If the existential event started to unfold, then we would start coordinating with China in the same way as Independence Day, if the aliens came down from out of space, suddenly the Chinese would be looking a lot better to us. And there was a time, I think all four of us on the screen remember it, when we didn't have these and we didn't have the laptops and we didn't have satellites everywhere in the sky, and we were just sort of normal humans who really weren't that dependent on tech.

1:13:16And if there's a way of like, because like, what is AI? It's a computer. It's computer data that's thinking that's now linked to satellites in the sky, but they don't have to stay there in the sky. The computers don't have to stay there. Like if we had some massive control alt-delete option, I'd feel better. How do you like it? I really like the kill switch concept. And actually, this weekend, Daria was talking about how not only would you need a kill switch, but you would need other factors. You need to actually have four or five different ways to control AI, just in case something like this happens.

1:13:54One on its own, they might be able to bypass. But if there are two or three, that would be more protective. I feel like if we get Elon in the case. And he seems to be on our side in terms of he likes AI. I mean, I like AI. I have nothing against some aspects of it. I don't use it very much, but I know a lot of people who absolutely love it. But he's been sounding the alarm on this for a long time now. He's actually been kind of jumping up and down about the dangers of this for quite some time and was one of the reasons why Anthropic folded out of OpenAI and was going to be the more responsible AI company, which, you know, I guess is true.

1:14:30But, you know, in a in an ocean full of great whites, it's like being the one that's a little nicer isn't really all that comforting. I'm not sure that's going to work for us. Anyway, this is a scary thing. I will play Trump just so people can hear it. Sot 10. This is him on Air Force One last night. This week, again, there's been so much concern about AI. Have you heard directly from any of these AI tech leaders? And you seem to downplay some of the concerns that we've heard. But it's going to be more good than bad, but by a lot. And I've said it from the beginning. Whoever wins AI, and we're leading by a lot.

1:15:08Whoever wins AI wins. Have you ever used it yourself? How do you use AI? I would say, you know, for the most part, you can use AI for a lot of things. I don't want to do that. He didn't want to answer that, he said. Now, you guys are not anti-AI. You encourage the use of AI to simplify your life. The name of the book is Simplify. Do 50 % more with 50 % less. And I have to say, I love your main tools of simplicity. There are three of them. Confront, delete, amplify. I have to tell you, I've been living my life by these principles for a long, long time, And it has made me a happier, more productive person, in particular, the middle one, delete.

1:15:56So let's take them down the line. I'll start with you, Roy, since I started with you last. Confront, delete, or amplify. Which one would you like? Let's do confront. Like the most important thing you can do is ask the question, you know, we'll take meetings as an example. Is this meeting important? What is the agenda of the meeting? The concept in the book is that if you confront different areas in your life, you'll start to understand what are the most important ones. And that will allow you the room to delete and then amplify. I'll let Jim and Mike talk about delete and amplify. But a lot of people and a lot of organizations don't ask the questions.

1:16:30A lot of things that happen because they've always happened. And they're not there by design. They're there by default. And so the book really talks about how to confront different areas, both in your personal life and at work, so that you can make your life simply more easy. And you're going to need that because in this world of AI, things are going to start moving really fast. You write under confront. We do an astonishing amount out of habit or blind agreement. Stop. Reflect. Why am I doing this? Will it matter even if I do it well? These two questions will erase years of wasted energy. That is so real.

1:17:13Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? It's true, especially when you are at a company and you're a little older and you're used to sort of the ways of the company. Sometimes we just do it and we don't know why. We don't even, we don't waste the energy to save the energy. And we should, is what you're saying. All right, Mike, do you want to take delete? This is my favorite one. Yes, this is the funnest one. So thank you. And yes, in the book, we use the phrase work-like activity. We run, run, run, run, run, and think that we have accomplished something. So with Delete, everything about the book is about intentionality.

1:17:50The idea that the barnacles build up, habits build up, meetings build up, check-ins build up. And what we found at Axios, relatively young, relatively small company that even there, that if you're not super aggressive and intentional about confronting these things, that they just built up. So with delete, this is what can I cut out? What can I stop doing that isn't valuable to my life or to my company? Things that aren't, I'm not uniquely good at or that don't bring me joy. a simple example, Megan, people I know ask you all the time, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you just please do this favor?

1:18:30And our instinct as humans is to say, well, I guess I should, or maybe I should. No, like two words that will change the life of your audience is to just say, I'm booked. When you're asked about something and you don't want to do it, or you don't think that it is going to be one of the things that makes you a successful person, makes you the person that you want to be, that you want to be remembered as. Just say, I'm booked. You don't have to apologize. You don't have to explain. And in the book, Simplify, Megan, we have the hell yes rule. And the hell yes rule is if someone asks you to do something, asks you to join something, be part of something, and you're like, ah, I don't know, or maybe I should forget it.

1:19:17If you can say hell yes, then it's going to be something that is worthy of your time. Yes, that's so good. And another thing on social engagements, I think a lot of people get stressed out about saying no, because someone's done something nice. They've invited you to attend something that they're throwing. And presumably this is a friend of yours or an acquaintance who might mean something to you. And it's totally fine. The sooner the better to just respond. were otherwise engaged that night. That's it. That's it. That's it. Just, you're not hurting their feelings. You're doing them a courtesy by giving them a quick response.

1:19:48You don't have to labor around it for weeks and weeks and weeks as the date approaches. Just the sooner, the better, just write that. And you know who taught me that? Charles Koch and his wife, when I went down to interview them many moons ago and he put his book out, which was actually full of these useful tidbits. Just do it and do it quickly. All right. So I love the delete. I'm the queen of JOMO, not FOMO. I have no fear of missing out. I only have joy of missing out. I love to miss out. I love to be at home with my family doing nothing. That's my very favorite thing in life. So this one will be easy for me.

1:20:25But Amplify. All right, Jim, this may be harder. Speak of Amplify. I don't think it's harder because I think it is the most exciting part of it, which is, I don't – we know each other a little bit, Megan. But what I do know from watching you from afar is you obviously take time to be with your family. You take time to stay in shape. You take time to be able to do a podcast, to be able to do video, to be able to basically run your own media empire. Well, that's not by mistake because you've thought about the things that you could get rid of so that you can amplify the things you like doing and that bring you success.

1:20:55And the truth is most people haven't done what you did. And that's what the book is. It's like a power tool. We're not going to win any literary awards for this. It's really about being super duper helpful because we saw the difference it made at our business and then we saw the difference it made in our life. And the idea is to get rid of those things you shouldn't be doing, which is probably 25 to 50 percent of what you're doing. This is how dramatic it is. We're not talking saving a couple minutes. We're talking about years of your life where you could do things that you want to do. And that's the amplification part.

1:21:24What do you want to do? What brings you joy? What brings you meaning? What brings you reward? I can't dictate that for you, nor can any author. But we can give you tools to figure out, okay, how can you spend way more time doing those things? Because even think of it this ruthlessly. In a given day or in a given week, you have one of 168 hours. You spend a good chunk of those, one-third sleeping. Then you spend another sort of 40 % going to work, thinking about work, bitching about work. That gives you about 50 hours in a week that you kind of sort of control. and most of those are eaten up by obligation.

1:22:00So any hour that you get back is an hour you could do what you want to do and that's ultimately what we want to do. Like all of us are anxious for a reason. All of us feel like we're wasting parts of our lives for a reason because we are wasting it. We're just killed. We're crushed with all these emails, all these texts, all these alerts, all these obligations, all these meetings, all these things that we have to do when all we want to do is do what we want to do, make a difference, spend time with our family, enjoy our job, get some reward or recognition. I saw two posts online over the week that actually really resonated and made me laugh out loud.

1:22:38One was about how Gen Xers are looking at the younger generation, the Gen Zers and the young, young millennials saying, the reason we're sitting at home on Friday night at eight o 'clock happily and and completely contentedly is because we've done it all. We grew up in an era where we had no parents. We all lied and said we were at Michelle's house. There was no Michelle. We were out on the golf course drinking Zima's and Bartles and Jane's wine coolers and some sort of a drink that was in a plastic bin that we would just dump our red solo cups into and see where life took us. Like we're good now.

1:23:16And I completely agree with that. And I thought it kind of made me feel better about some of my things that are on my list. But secondly, there was another chart that showed since 2020, we are staying at home in this country more than ever before. That even just as recently as 2015, we were all out of our houses a lot more than we are right now. It's like COVID flipped some switch, some agoraphobic switch where people are staying at home too much now. And I do think, you know, apropos of some of this advice, maybe it's the amplify, like getting out into the world is a good thing. I think it's an objectively good thing, no matter what your countenance, getting out into sunlight, into nature, next to a stream, by an ocean, all of that stuff, Roy, I think is a natural upper, right?

1:24:09That you can tap into. So is exercise for that matter that can help you in all three of these things. Absolutely. But the key is you have to be able to make the space. You have to be able to to make the time. A lot of people don't have a framework in order to help them understand what are the things they can delete so that they can take that walk in nature, go out every morning, do walking out, exercising. That's the issue that we're trying to help people with. And right now, everyone is overwhelmed. This feeling of anxiety, we all have it. And partly it's because of AI, partly it's because of what happened during COVID.

1:24:42But right now, we're getting more messages, more emails, more communication than ever before and we're kind of drowning. And the only way to really survive that is to find the areas that you need to focus on. And so that's what this book really helps you with, is it gives everyone a framework, a playbook that they can use, and a common language. The pet food industry won't tell you that the real story is in the ingredient panel, not the front of the bag. Sundays for Dogs made a deliberate choice. Real, human-grade meat, no fillers, no synthetic vitamin premixes and nothing unpronounceable. Sundaes for Dogs is real food suitable for human consumption.

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1:28:06I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

1:28:38I work a lot with organizations, and every one of them seems to have some type of focus, back to basics, simplification initiative that they're trying to do. But the issue that they usually have is they don't have a common language, they don't have a framework, they don't have a playbook that they can follow. So they end up struggling with this. And so the book really helps you understand how can you put everyone on the same page in order to simplify. And that's at work. At home, the same thing with your family, right? If you're all focused on just everything that's coming at you, you'll never have the time to exercise.

1:29:10You'll never have the time to go for that nice walk in the morning. And so we're trying to help people simplify their lives so that they can do those things. I like the framework. It's funny because it was a few years ago, my assistant of 17 plus years, Abigail, said to me, she and her husband love Warren Buffett and they read a lot of Warren Buffett books. And she said, Warren Buffett always says the most powerful word in the English language is no, just say no. And it's, as Oprah says, no is a complete sentence. It's true. Like eliminating the clutter from your life. And you mentioned, does it bring me joy, Mike?

1:29:44That's Marie Kondo, right? She's all about eliminating the clutter from your home, your closet. And the question she uses as you're deciding keep or give is, does it bring me joy? It needs to be thought of more often. I do. But once again, the name of the book is Simplify. Simplify. Do 50 % more with 50 % less. You can get it right now by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwartz. Check it out. But before we simplify this segment, I want to ask you about politics. This is your bread and butter, and you know a lot about the subject. And President Trump was out there just this past Friday night, I think it was, with Laura Ingram making news on the heels.

1:30:27I got to love Trump. This is on the heels of the GOP convention for the midterms. The whole point is to generate excitement and enthusiasm for the midterms. Republicans get out there and vote. Let's do this thing. And then she asks him if he's going to be campaigning as hard as possible to make that happen. And here's what happened in SOT3. Are you going to campaign harder than you've ever campaigned in this month? The hardest I ever campaigned, because I had to win, was the last, I took four months, no empty days, no empty hours. I made speeches all day. I didn't want to have fundraisers. I had the money.

1:31:03I didn't want to, which is a big advantage. I was able to raise a lot of money. And I have a lot of money. I spent my own money. But I took four months, 120 days. I didn't have one. But isn't this just as important, Mr. President? I mean, your whole legacy is on the line. It's never as important. Look, I'm campaigning for other people. When you say my legacy, I'll be a block. I'll end up being a blocker. I'll block all their bad stuff for two years. It won't be the same, but I'll be a blocker. What can I tell you? And probably be able to make deals with them. You know, they're going to want some stuff and we'll get you make deals.

1:31:38I mean, it's one of those. So he's going to campaign, but it's not expected to be the same as when he was running for president. I guess I'm not surprised to hear that, Mike. I'm not sure it would have been stamped approved by Mike Johnson and the GOP, but that's Trump. No, exactly. This is back to Trump brain, which you're one of the world's leading experts on. And he kind of likes the idea that if he's not on the ballot, Republicans can't win. And this is going to be a real problem for J.D. Vance, the likely Republican nominee in 2028. Like, President Trump's going to be thinking, am I more relevant if I'm an out-of-office Republican with a Republican in the White House?

1:32:23And so his team has, for months and months and months, as you know, Megan, from your conversations, they've been trying to get him excited about the midterms, like reminding him the real risks of a Democratic House majority with subpoena power, like a lot of his business contacts, a lot of the donors that he's close to, like those are all going to become Democratic targets, assuming a Democratic House. And Megan, you're going to love this, like behind the curtain in the Oval Office, trying to convince him that he should be more involved, interested in the midterms. Someone said to him, Mr. President, what do you think you're not getting enough credit for?

1:33:08And so that's how they tried to frame it, to get his attention. But trying to get him to care about this when Maggie Haberman estimates that most of his brainpower is going to these legacy projects, the gilding, the building, like all the things that he so relishes doing. The arc in Washington, the arc or whatever that's going to be. Arc to Trump, yes. I think the other problem is not only would Trump calculate that he might be more relevant out of office if there's not a Republican in the White House, but I think Trump would be thrilled. He's already been saying it to say, they can't win without me.

1:33:55Like he's in his heart. He's never really been a Republican, Jim. You know, he's been Trump and he bent the Republican Party to his will. It's the Trump Publican Party, really. But without him, I think Trump will be happy to be like. They can't win without Trump. Yeah, sorry. I'm not allowed to run. Apparently, they tell me for a third term. So good luck. I mean, he's not saying that openly, although he has kind of said that openly. But I mean, that's not going to be a theme that he's going to resurrect throughout the next two years. but is it true? Well, I don't think there's anyone around Trump that would dispute anything that the two of you just said.

1:34:32He's indifferent to who controls Congress. Part of that is how he utilizes and wields power, right? He's not sitting there wanting to sign bills into law. In fact, he's signed the fewest ever of somebody who's had this much authority. He likes to use executive power. He likes to negotiate deals one-on-one. He loves to talk to people overseas and try to negotiate things. He likes to carry out military strikes and do it around Congress. So to him, he doesn't care. And then when people are like, yeah, yeah, but they'll subpoena you, he's like, I don't care. I'll just ignore it. I'll send it to the Justice Department.

1:35:09They'll ignore it. I'll pardon my family. I'll pardon my friends. I just don't care. And by the way, I've been through it twice before. I don't care. I've shown you I don't care. And I think he's proving it that he does not care because if you wanted Democrats to win, you'd say, let's have higher prices. Let's have an unpopular war. Let's ridicule people who want to make safer AI when people are scared of AI. He's doing all the things you would do if you wanted Democrats to win. Now, listen, he's blessed in that the map is pretty good for Republicans. Redistricting helped Republicans. And people still don't like Democrats.

1:35:42People still don't have a damn clue what it means to even be a Democrat. And so if anything is holding Republicans together, it's that, but it's completely conceivable that it ends up being a catastrophic bloodbath for Republicans if things keep heading this way. If you have high prices on popular war, AI freaking people out. Catastrophic bloodbath. Not good. You heard it here from Jim. Not good. But no, it is conceivable. You're absolutely right. That's why they had this midterm convention to try to generate some heat around Republicans and get people excited. I mean, I don't you know, it's tough.

1:36:14It's tough, especially when you're in prime time across from NFL football and not to mention the U.S. Open and all that. But I will say this. Trump gets exactly what you just said when he sat down with Laura Ingraham and had like the chance to message why should people be voting for Republicans in these upterm upcoming midterms? He certainly did not say the Iran war, Roy. this is what he said. Sat one. One sentence, if you could boil down why Republicans need to show up in the midterms. One sentence. Communism. They are trying to turn this country around and destroy our country. And, you know, I used to say a lot, this will never be a socialist country.

1:36:56We will never be a country of socialism. And I was right. I mean, they're going for the big one. They skip socialism. These people are sick. when you look at the guy from Michigan, Abdul, when you look at some of the people that he's listened to, when you look at even maybe at a different kind of a level, look at this guy running from Texas. He looks like... Tallahassee. Yeah, well, I call him Tallahassee because he is. He's a freaky guy. He's got something wrong with him. Okay, so if you missed it, the first word there was communism. Communism. And, you know, he said they skipped right by socialism, went for the full enchilada.

1:37:34good message, very good, right? It's not about the Republicans at all. It's just he would have everybody, everyone look at the entire Democrat party and think Tala Frico. Who wants to take that? I'm happy to jump in. Yeah, I mean, like it worked for them for a long time. Like basically people didn't like Democrats and often politics is a lesser of two evils. I think what the president doesn't realize, because there's not a lot of people around him shouting the truth into his ear, is that he's very unpopular, right? In every single poll, among every single voting group, he's just a lot less popular than he used to be.

1:38:07And so the question is gonna be at the end of the day, like what is the lesser of two evils for people going into the voting booth? And the thing I always look at is a lot of people don't vote in off-year elections. And so the one thing I do look at polls is just like who is routinely saying they're more enthusiastic and fired up? And it's been Democrats for the last two years. That's why they've overperformed in a lot of these off-year races, which if you extrapolate that and pull it across to all the races, you could see why you could have Democrats doing even better than people think and then having this break.

1:38:37And in fact, Donald Trump was making that case. If you wanted compromise and you wanted something different, he said he's ready to make deals, right? His son-in-law has already met with Hakeem Jeffries to talk about how they can make deals. It's almost like they're preparing to make deals, which makes Speaker Johnson and others fume. No, I heard my friends over on the National Review podcast, the editors, upset about that comment late last week. Like, that's not what we want to hear. You're going to be working with these crazy Democrats who are about to take over the House and possibly the Senate to make deals for whom?

1:39:11We don't want that. We don't want they didn't make deals with our side and we shouldn't be making deals with them. The odds are the Republicans would be unhappy with any deals that are made. But I think what we're really going to see is the Democrats will win the House. I don't know about the Senate, Mike. But it's going to be investigation Rama. It's just going to be the next two years. He says he's going to be a blocker. I agree. He's probably going to block most of the legislation. But it's just going to be subpoenas, investigations, House oversight, House ethics. Jared Kushner, Don Jr., Eric Trump, you know, the most subpoenaed people in U.S.

1:39:44history will double and triple down on that record, not to mention whatever they can do to stymie and upset Trump himself. Don't you think that's where things are going? You have the checklist. It's as if you have the Democratic playbook, because my reporting with Democrats is that they know that they can't directly go at Trump. As Jim said, the White House, we know from the first term, they're just going to ignore subpoenas. But anyone who's done business with Trump, anybody who's done a deal with Trump, anybody who's had a conversation with Trump, any consultant who's advised a company about where they should give, what they should give, like all of those are the places Democrats are going to go.

1:40:26It's a bank shot for Trump. They're going to say Trump has been helping his cronies. Trump has been helping people around him and it's been hurting you. And so big business, anybody who has done anything with the financial side of this administration, like they're going to be the targets. Something super important to mention, Megan. Jim pointed out the intensity on the other side. As I talked to Republicans over the weekend about how they felt about the convention, the reason they like the convention is they feel like it got their people back excited, gave their people a reason to get out. Now, you certainly need more than that, but that's a place that they were in a hole and they feel that the convention has put them back to par.

1:41:13OK, I gave my prediction. Let me ask your predictions, Jim. Odds that what do you think is going to happen? I'll put it more. I'll simplify the question in the House and the Senate. I think the Democrats win both if things continue on this trajectory, and I think they will. Wow. How about you, Mike? Yes, there's no republic, very few Republicans who have hope for the House. They have hope for the Senate. The problem is, I think there's so much momentum, such a wave. I think it's been one of those elections. And Megan, I've watched you cover them over the years, an election where there's such a big wave that seats fall that we're not even watching.

1:41:51Oh, wow. OK, Roy, thoughts, House, Senate? I'll agree with Jim. I think it goes the Democrats way. But I also think we've got a lot of time between now and then where something, you know, going back to the AI conversation could really change the landscape. And I think that's the thing that we're going to have to watch for is something's going to happen. It'll change how we think about it. Well said. All right, guys. Listen, if this has stressed you out, if you're a Republican voter, it's time to simplify. Simplify your life. Get your own ducks in a row in advance of this massive change coming our way to Washington by Simplify.

1:42:27It's out tomorrow. Go ahead and order it today. Guys, thank you. Megan, I love your Jomo. Joy of missing out. When in doubt, simplify. Feel free to steal it. It's all yours. Great to see you guys. Thanks for having us, Megan. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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