Dems EAT Their Own in California, with Ana Kasparian, and Trump's "Softer" Deportation Approach, with Gregory Bovino | Ep. 1317

23:33That's the public service. The question was, what public service have you had that would recommend you for this job? He's a content creator at a time when few wanted to do it.

23:41Ana Kasparian:Well, look, let me ask you a serious question about this because I've been thinking about this issue for a few years now. I feel like we're having a very serious competency problem in the United States in our political class. Oh, yes. And agreed. What has definitely highlighted this for me yet again is how the war against Iran is going, because what I'm and it's not about like, oh, let's put the question of whether or not we should have done what we did away for a second. Just talk about the two different sides, the United States and Iran, and how both sides are carrying out this war. Iran has been incredibly strategic incredibly strategic and they are winning this war as a result of that and so it's not just Trump Trump is surrounded by advisors Trump is surrounded by career politicians in his ear telling him what to do and I just do people understand how stupid our government looks on the international stage and I don't think that's fair to the American people I don't think that there are I don't think our country is full of dumb people I just think that our political system, for some reason, seems to incentivize or attract some of the dumbest people to raise their hands and say, I want to be a public servant.

25:00Ana Kasparian:But they're never really public servants. Even if they wanted to be public servants, they wouldn't even know how. They don't care. They just don't care. They're not really educated on how our government works, what international law is. They don't care about any of that stuff. They just want a position of power. And for what? Insider trading? That's a lot of that's going on in Congress. So, yes, right now, the American people are furious. We look embarrassing on the international stage and it's just not right. It really isn't. I mean, our fall from grace didn't happen overnight. And I think we really do need to invest in better schooling and education.

25:37Ana Kasparian:and we got to bring back home economics like we need to teach Americans civics and civics. Yes. There's so many elements of public education, for instance, that have been cut out that I think we need to reintroduce again. So we raise people who can compete with people in China who could compete on the international stage. We can't do it when other countries rising superpowers are investing everything they have into future generations. We're not doing any of that here in the United States. These are all excellent points. I mean, and look at it, it doesn't matter where you go to school because this guy, as I point out, is a Harvard law or Harvard and Yale law and business graduate.

26:15I mean, he's got all the credentials in the world. It didn't take, it didn't work. So it's not necessarily about where you get your degree. It's about actually learning and becoming a smart person and being attuned to what's happening around you. When you were talking, the thing that came to mind really was social media, but social media could be both the death and the resurrection of good people in Congress. I think on the one hand, people don't want to run because they don't want all their mistakes or their missteps to be thrown in their face ad nauseum. People who have made whatever mistakes in their personal lives or their professional lives know that they're going to get dragged and they don't want to do it.

26:53It's so brutal. It's so brutal. And then at the end, even if you get the prize, what happens? You're not respected. It's not a position that's respected anymore. So why put yourself through it? And then even if like the presidency is still generally respected, but you get that, you probably, you know, you might get a bullet in the head. Like, geez, this doesn't sound that great. Yeah. Well, also there's that problem. But maybe on the other hand, just the second piece of it was like our kids, they've grown up immersed in social media. They're used to having all, not mine in particular, but most have had their lives out there since the time they were tweens.

27:26and it's like it's past embarrassment territory like everyone's had all their thoughts and lives on the internet forever there's no embarrassing anybody or doing so maybe we'll get a better crop in about 10 years when you get to these kids who are like oh fuck it i'm good yeah i mean i would

27:46Ana Kasparian:i would love for people to be able to see through the obvious political smears right when people bring up like if you're showing me a post by someone when they were like 14 or 15 years old how about you fuck off i'm not interested right like we we need to create a culture that stigmatizes that kind of dirt yes right and so because we do need to incentivize good people who want to improve the country to run for political office and by the way what's happening to congressman massey right now with these no we're going to talk about that next okay yeah because it just I think it's sick. I think it's absolutely sick.

28:25Ana Kasparian:And I'm saying this as someone who disagrees with him on a lot of policies. But what I love about Congressman Massey is that he's real. He's authentic. He's a good faith actor and he's principled. It is nearly impossible to find anyone in Congress like that. So to lose him to, you know, a Israel lobby funded candidate would be absolutely awful. But we could would make perfect sense. I mean, I mean, it shows you how our elections actually work, right? How money in politics is really a terrible. Wait, hold that thought. Sure. I want to do Massey. I want to do that discussion properly, but I just I have one more for you, Schlossberg, before we leave him.

29:04So one of the other things the Times points out is that, you know, he's got his famous social media feed, which is very nasty and had some of the examples I just mentioned. But apparently, as he's been running for office, he's been using it for, among other things, to plagiarize the posts of other Democrats he likes without credit. So I guess Seth Moulton, a Democrat of Massachusetts, posted something after the Maduro raid. Do we have the Seth Moulton? Oh, we have it spliced. Okay, so I'm going to show you here Seth Moulton's post, and it's spliced with the one Schlossberg posted like the next day, which was clearly copied off of Seth Moulton without credit or attribution.

29:49Watch. I'm recording this today with a serious message. Tonight, I have a serious message. This week, we learned two disturbing things. Two things happened this week that should make you feel disturbed. First, President Trump's announcement this morning that airspace over Venezuela should be considered closed as he weighs military action. First, Trump ordered that airspace around the country of Venezuela be shut down as he considers whether to take additional military action there. The U.S. does not have the authority to close airspace over another country. Trump is preparing for war, a war Congress has not declared.

30:23The U.S. has not declared war on Venezuela and the U.S. does not have the authority to shut down the airspace around another country. Second, yesterday news broke that Secretary Hegseth allegedly ordered the Joint Special Operations Commander to conduct a second strike to kill two survivors. If we were at war, that would be a war crime. But we are at war, so it's murder. If we were at war, that would be considered a war crime. Since we aren't, some are calling it murder. It's identical. He copied him almost word for word to the point where Seth Moulton's office noticed, reports the Times, and called Schlossberg's office saying, WTF.

31:05And they had to admit that he did it. They were like, well, he liked it. Oh, my gosh. His excuse was, well, I liked it. Yes. I can't. I can't believe it. Add an addendum that he copied Seth Moulton. He's an idiot.

31:21Ana Kasparian:Well, I was looking for I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Like, you assume that the person did the bad thing, right? So we all know that when it comes to political parties or political groups, they'll pass around talking points and they'll literally just read the talking points or tweet or post the talking points. So I thought maybe there's a possibility that they were sent the same script. And so they both read the script. But no, that's not what happened. This is unbelievable. I mean, how did this guy get into Ivy Leagues? I wonder, Gee, could it be his connections? I know, I know.

31:55Wow. It's so annoying because think about it. You know, there are so many kids out there right now in like lower to middle-class communities who are working their asses off with like a dream of improving their station in life by getting into one of these Ivy League colleges.

32:14Ana Kasparian:Yeah. Like the thought of getting an education at Yale and Harvard, getting a law degree, right? is truly, it would be truly life-changing for said young man or woman and their family. And they don't get to go because this prick, for no reason other than his mom is who she is and his grandparents were who they were, takes the slot. And what does he do with it? This rich asshole, entitled jerk, does absolutely nothing. He futzes around with it, does some tour in a van, pumps up his social media, works for John Kerry for four months in yet another role that probably should have gone to somebody else, does some limited stint for Vogue, writing about the Democratic National Convention, and then thinks that he's entitled to represent a very large community with, by the way, a lot of heavy hitters on the Upper East Side and Upper West Side of Manhattan, and it goes beyond that district.

33:12So like, fuck him and his entitlement. I really look forward to his humiliation. And honestly, if the if the residents of upper New York, upper Manhattan vote for this guy to represent their interests, they they're going to get exactly what they reserve, what they deserve, which is to be embarrassed. He will implode. He will not make it past the first year in office. He won't. It's very clear to me. And I've said before, he's mentally ill. He's not just weird. This guy is very obviously mentally ill. He was reportedly urged by his own mother not to do this. They knew within the family, he's off.

33:51There's something wrong with this guy. And it took only time for it to be exposed. We need to worry more about the ones for whom it's never exposed until they get into office. And then they unleash their crazies on their proposed legislation. Okay. So let's talk about Massey, because that's actually the most interesting story, I think, of the news today. So Thomas Massey has easily won his prior elections, and he's beloved as a Republican in the state of Kentucky. However, this time around, thanks to two factors, I think it's fair to say, he could lose his primary. He might not even be the Republican nominee.

34:28And I think those two factors, you tell me, he'd probably been following it more closely, but are President Trump, who's very annoyed that Massey has continuously bucked the president's demands, whether it's on Epstein or other matters, like I don't think he voted for the extension of Trump's tax cuts. You know, he's like a fiscal hawk and that and so on. And the Israel lobby, which he's been critical of Israel, which is like very, very rare now for a Republican. And he's had the full power of the Israel lobby, whether it's AIPAC or Miriam Adelson and other pro-Israel, pro-Jewish groups who are just unleashing cash to promote his primary opponent who's been backed by the president in the, again, Republican primary that's about to take place.

35:16So now as we inch up to that vote, we get, of course, the 11th hour drop of a woman alleging he was somehow emotionally abusive to her. It's like he was dating her for a couple of months. He was emotionally abusive and he offered me$60 ,000 hush money. And then And Thomas Massey has a lawyer come out to say she was alleging this about her ex-husband and their divorce proceedings at the same time. And the judge found her so not credible. He threw out the allegations. So spare me. But man, the heft of the campaign that's been unleashed against Massey tells us what.

35:56Ana Kasparian:I mean, it tells you that our elections are bought. And if you don't play nice with the Israel lobby, they'll do whatever it takes to crush you. and they'll have smear pieces written about you. I mean, that's what's happening right now as we speak. I mean, you look at the campaign funding for Galper. What's his name? Galperin. I don't even know. Galperin. Yeah, Galperin. He's most of his money is from out of state and it's from people who prioritize Israel over the American people. I'm kind of shocked to see that his challenger is rising in the polls. In fact, yesterday for the first time, there was one poll that showed that he not only closed Massey's lead, but he has now, you know, passed Massey in the polling.

36:42Ana Kasparian:And so what this communicates to us is that our elections and our so-called democracy isn't real, right? That moneyed interests are the ones who control everything. They get to decide who they elect. And a lobby that is far more concerned with a foreign country has more power than ordinary Americans who live and care about this country, live in and care about this country. So we really like I just I am terrified that he's going to beat Massey in the primary, not only because I think it's unfair to Massey, who's a principled politician, a unicorn, really, when you think about it. I'm worried that this is going to disenfranchise voters to a point where they're just not going to participate in any election.

37:27Ana Kasparian:And then what? And then what happens? Right. So there's I just don't know how to solve this other than calling for a constitutional amendment that takes money out of politics. We shouldn't allow corporate interests. We shouldn't allow pharmaceutical companies or defense contractors who are just loaded with cash to buy our elections. We shouldn't allow a lobby for a foreign country to buy our elections. But it's happening on a regular basis. And if people are wondering why Americans, you know, have lost trust in our institutions, this is a big reason why. It's so true. I want to correct myself.

38:09The opponent is Gal Rain, G-A-L-L-R-E-I-N. And he has received form at least four million dollars or they've spent it on ads supporting him from the Republican Jewish Coalition. uh he has received money 2.6 million at least has been spent on ads supporting him by a pack um by the a pack super pack united democracy project um all according to ad impact and then there's more this is one example of an a pack super pack um ad against massey that's airing now 17.

39:17Ana Kasparian:content of this ad we're 40 40 trillion dollars in debt 40 trillion dollars the pentagon wants us to believe that the war against iran is just going to cost you know somewhere between 25 billion to 29 billion dollars that is a lie and it's going to add to our devastating federal debt which uh we are spending a trillion dollars a year servicing at this point so i mean we're we go ahead I was just going to say, we also just got the latest inflation numbers. It's up 3.8%. Just to go back and see, when President Trump took office in January of 2025, the inflation rate was 3.0. But then by January of 26, he had gotten it down to 2.4%.

40:08And now it's up at 3.8%. And it is because of energy prices. That's obviously related to the war. Gas is up 28.4%. These numbers just came out yesterday. Food is up 3.2%. Shelter is up 3.3%. So all these costs are factored in. Inflation is going the wrong way. And yeah, we're worried about, you know, Massey and some woman who obviously is trying to take him down a week before the election. I don't know what's going to happen in this race, But I do I agree with you that a super PAC that's whose number one concern is the dollars that we send to Israel and what the United States stance on Israel is should not be determining what's good for Kentucky or Kentucky voters or the United States of America.

40:58I mean, this is just, you know, we allow it. We allow care to spend. We allow AIPAC to spend. It's just fucking bullshit because they spend and they spend a lot. And it's not for domestic interests at all. It's for their own interests. And, you know, there's just the other thing I was going to say when you were like, why do we get such shitty politicians is I remember where I was at Fox News. I was sitting in my office, which I shared at the time with Major Garrett when Citizens United was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. And it was this decision that declared its free speech for these companies to spend as much as they want in these political elections.

41:32And I didn't disagree with the ruling as a legal matter, but it was a watershed moment, not just in our political spending, but in the way politics would be and who would be in them in America. Because now, Anna, what we have is like every jurisdiction is just controlled by big money donors. Yes. You don't have to make deals with people across the aisle because your little jurisdiction is going to be funded by two or three very rich Republicans or Democrats, depending on where you live. And you really just have to answer to them. And oftentimes they don't want you to make any deals. And they're your daddy.

42:07So, like, you fucking do what they want. And it doesn't matter how much pressure gets put on you. And it allows things like this. For groups like this to spend unlimited amounts and, you know, get you to bend the knee for them. Now, if this guy gets the nomination, how's he going to vote when it comes to funding for Israel, which is actually becoming one of the issues that they're debating in more and more political campaigns, given the changing sentiment on Israel in America? It's like, this is how it's done. And this is a massive problem. And I don't know what the solution is to that.

42:40Ana Kasparian:Well, I mean, like I said, I think that it's important to rein in the money in politics through a constitutional amendment. That's really the only way to do it. I OK, so let's go back to the Citizens United ruling, which I agree with you was a watershed moment. I just find it strange that the argument in favor of that ruling was that, well, you know, corporations are engaging in free speech by spending unlimited amounts of money in these elections and on these particular candidates. But what about the speech of the ordinary citizen? How is the ordinary citizen supposed to compete with a billionaire or a group of billionaires or with a well-funded lobby that is far more concerned with a foreign country than our own?

43:26Ana Kasparian:How are you supposed to compete? And don't our speech rights matter as well? And I mean, one of the issues. Well, that's a policy argument. You're right. I agree. I would I would totally support a constitutional amendment along these lines. But, you know, the Supreme Court can't. You basically have the right to speak, but you don't have the right to have your voice be the loudest one in the room. And so they wouldn't factor that in on how it's going to affect the little guy. That's for our lawmakers who are a bunch of P words. You know, there's just no leadership. There's no leadership. And that's I mean, I got to admit, I don't know that much about Thomas Massey.

43:59I know he's been a thorn in the president's side. And I've seen people I respect on the right say they can't stand him because he hasn't backed the president's agenda and they found it really frustrating. But I would say in a personal matter, like I respect that he has principles and he votes them. That's what I like about Rand Paul, too. He doesn't go with the wind. He seems to have a real worldview and he sticks by it when he's in office. You know, I like that in my politicians. I do. Like I'm much more amenable to the latest argument because I'm a lawyer. And so like I'm always trying to upgrade my information and my opinions.

44:33Politicians, they run on a platform and then we expect them to govern based on what they promised. So I and I see what's being done to him. They're clearly trying to tear him apart because of his stance on Israel, or at least that faction is trying to tear him down. And they're pouring so much money into this race and it's working and it's disturbing. It is disturbing.

44:52Ana Kasparian:One final thing I'll say about Massey. You know, people keep bringing up that he is a thorn in Trump's side. But make no mistake, this isn't because they have like significant ideological differences per se. The only areas in which Congressman Massey votes against Trump's agenda is when he sees that the legislation is going to add to our federal debt, which is a problem. It just is. And, you know, to be honest with you, Megan, I mean, ever since I've been an adult and I've been working in the field I work in, I've heard Republican members of Congress talk about the federal debt, talk about the deficit over and over again.

45:30Ana Kasparian:But they never seem to really care about it after they get elected. Thomas Massey, they don't care. Thomas Massey is different. And so that principled stance, I think, is relevant. And also he's willing to work with the other side when there is common ground on behalf of the American people. And yes, I'm talking about the release of the Epstein files that was promised to the American people by the Trump campaign. But Trump didn't want to release the files. And Massey was brave enough to step up to the plate, work with Marjorie Taylor Greene, work with Ro Khanna, do what it what was necessary to get those files released.

46:06Ana Kasparian:Now, we don't have the full files yet, but still what he managed to do is admirable. And there's no way in hell his political opponent in this primary race would do the same. Yeah. And we have seen actual things happen as a result of it, more so in the UK than in America. But a lot of folks have been outed as doing nefarious things in those files. And we wouldn't know about it if it weren't for the push to make that law, now that the law has a huge exception in it that they're exploiting, to withhold certain documents. But I mean, they should be careful in withholding too much because when we get a Democratic administration in there, if they They were withholding stuff that makes Republican donors look bad, etc.

46:48What do you think the next administration is going to do? So in any event, it's good that we got the law passed. We'll see what happens with this particular primary. I want to mention, we talked just a second ago about inflation and how much it's rising now. And obviously, everyone's looking at this just because they care about their wallet. And they also care about it politically. What is it going to mean if it keeps going, you know, through the summer, into the fall and into the midterms? Well, President Trump was on camera on Monday and he was asked, was it Monday? Yeah, I think so. He was asked a question.

47:25Do we have it? Yeah. About whether he thinks about Americans' financial situations when he's dealing with the Iranians in the context of these settlement talks. and this has gone everywhere now as a potential campaign ad that's going to be used against him. I have my own thoughts on it, but I want to get yours too. SOT 21.

47:44Ana Kasparian:When you're negotiating with Iran, Mr. President, to what extent are American financial situations motivating you to make a deal? Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all. That's the only thing that. OK, so there's no question that that answer will be cut and will wind up in ads by all Democrats opposing any Republican going into the midterms and maybe beyond. Right. Anybody who worked for the Trump administration may have to answer for that in 28.

48:25I don't think about the concerns of Americans at all, the financial concerns. But I do think the president is being taken out of context a bit on this because the question was about when you're doing the negotiations with Iran and trying to settle the war. And I think it's fair for a commander in chief to say in that moment, no, I'm just thinking about I can't let this opponent, this country I see as an opponent, as an enemy, get a nuclear weapon. That's why I launched the war. This is Trump's story. So I actually think he should be more careful with his language because it's going to get used against his people.

48:57but I do think on this particular one, the president's being unfairly bashed. However, it's also true that he needs to be more focused on what's happening with the people's economy, with their pocketbooks, Anna, because that's all they seem to care about. They don't like this war. They don't like what he's doing on virtually any issue, and not virtually, on any issue. He's not above water on any issue. And we've got six months to go for him to try to change that. Your thoughts on it?

49:25Ana Kasparian:I definitely disagree with you. in terms of him being taken out of context because he's the president of the United States. And so he has to consider the context of what he's doing. And he genuinely believes, and I can't even believe this because the whole thing with the enriched uranium is a cover story by the Israelis. Israelis just wanted to goad us into war. So we do regime change or yes, or turn Iran into a failed state. But I guess he has been surrounded with so many pro Israel people fear mongering and pretending to care about Iran's enriched uranium that he's starting to believe it and to the point where he thinks that is more important than the absolute devastation and destruction that he is bringing to the American people by being involved in this illegal war.

50:14Ana Kasparian:So I just I'm not going to give him a pass on this at all. Any president who says I don't think about Americans financial situation, not even a little bit. That's not a good president. Your number one priority needs to be the American people. He wasn't saying macro. You know, he was saying in this particular context, that's not where I think I think if she had phrased it. What do you ever think about Americans economic situation? Question mark. The answer would have been very different. I hope so. He's got to be careful. He's the president and it's going to be held against him. Right. I hope so, too.

50:47Always a pleasure, my friend. Great to see you. Keep giving him hell. Thank you. Good to be here. All right. Up next, really looking forward to my very first conversation with Gregory Bovino. He's ready to talk very openly about the Border Patrol, what happened between Noam and Homan and Trump, and where our actual deportation strategy truly stands now. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet, and now they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack and that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans.

51:32Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help make everyday purchases more affordable. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin-Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more at guardyourcard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card.

52:22Ana Kasparian:Marines, we were made for this.

52:29If you want to make an impact, you set an example. You take the lead. You adapt with intention. And when you move with that kind of purpose, you drive a vehicle that does the same. The Range Rover Sport. With a design that's distinctly British, it blends power, poise, and performance, delivering a drive that feels as refined as it is responsive. Defining modern luxury, the Range Rover Sport features the latest innovations in comfort and convenience, from the air cabin purification system to active noise cancellation, creating a quieter, more controlled experience. Built with raw power and agility, the Range Rover Sport responds with precision.

53:07Seven terrain modes powered by terrain response to fine-tunes performance to meet challenging roads ahead. Choose from a range of powerful engines, including a plug-in hybrid with an estimated range of 53 miles. Like you, the Range Rover Sport was designed to make an impact. Build your Range Rover Sport at rangerover.com slash US slash sport.

53:32Gregory Bovino was one of the most visible faces of the Trump administration's hardline border strategy. If he had it his way, there would not be even one illegal immigrant left in this country. Right on. So it made him the perfect fit for the Trump administration. And earlier this year, at the height of the immigration crackdowns, it was Bovino serving as President Trump's Border Patrol commander at large. But after the deaths of Renee Good and Alex Preddy in Minnesota, which they brought on themselves, Bovino was sent back to California. And then in March, he retired. A total loss for us. So now he's on the outside and he's not holding back, giving the inside story about where the promise of mass deportations stands now.

54:18Gregory Bovino, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you on. Well, Megan, thanks for having me. It's good to see you. Yeah, you as well. Thank you so much for your service and for taking the PR beating that came with your very difficult job. I mean, it was, of course, going to happen, but it was particularly nasty and it was undeserved and you were doing something truly noble and brave. Let me start it off right where we are as a show, because we were shocked to hear Tom Homan go on CBS News and sound like the door was potentially open in a Trump administration to amnesty. Here he was on CBS on May 5th, SOT 58.

55:02Would you support a compromise, sir, that involves giving legal status to the millions of people who are here illegally but are otherwise law-abiding, including DREAMers?

55:13Ana Kasparian:I'm not going to get ahead of the president on that. I work for the president. But something has to be done to address that population, or is the solution to support them all? I'm not going to get ahead of the president. that's in on the presence talking to various members of his cabinet. There's discussions going on. I'm involved with some and not others, but I'm not going to get ahead of the president on this. So he says he's not going to get ahead of the president when asked if they're getting ready to give amnesty to some faction of the illegals, which, you know, everybody was like, what? Did somebody jump into Tom Homan, who we love, into his head and like reprogram things?

55:53What's happening? And then he came out with Will Cain over on Fox and suggested that he'd been taken out of context in that exchange. We went back and looked at it. there was nothing out of context. The question was very simple. The answer was ambiguous. He wouldn't just say we want all the illegals out and that's our goal. He said, I don't want to get ahead of the president when specifically asked whether there's an amnesty deal potentially in the work. So then I asked my team, Gregory, I'm pretty sure that Holman has said in the past when asked this same question, no, all illegals have to go and was never hesitant to say all illegals have got to go and didn't try to hedge like I'm not going to get ahead of the president.

56:38And this is what we found when we look back to see his rhetoric on that issue. If you're in a country illegally, you're on the table.

56:47Ana Kasparian:Every time you enter this country illegally, you violated a crime under Title 8, United States Code 1325. It's a crime. So if you're in a country illegally, you got a problem. If you're in the country illegally, it's not OK. It's not OK to violate laws this country. But when we find him, he's going to be with others, most likely. Many times you're with others. If they're in the country illegally, they're coming too. We're going to have a mass deportation, but we're going to prioritize the arrest of criminals and public safety threats. I'd say from day one, if you're in the country illegally, you're not off the table.

57:17Ana Kasparian:No one's off the table. If you're in this country in violation of law, we will deport you when we find you. It's that plain and simple. If you're in the country illegally, you're never off the table. Let me say this. if the message we send is you can enter this country illegally it's a crime don't worry about it you can have your due process show up in court not show up in court get ordered move don't worry about it unless you commit a serious crime you're good to go if that's the message we send to the world you're never going to fix this problem okay so how did we get from that to question would you support a compromise that involves giving legal status to the millions of people who are here illegally, but are otherwise law abiding, including dreamers.

58:04Homan, I'm not going to get ahead of the president on that. I work for the president. Megan, the first thing I would say on that is don't be a politician. Borders are not a politician. Board of Excellents aren't politicians. It's black and white. As you said, that's a black and white subject. You're either here illegally or you're not. If you're here illegally, then those mass deportations make sense for everyone, every single one of those illegal aliens here. Going back and hedging on that or not wanting to get ahead of another politician on that, vastly different than what we heard a year ago.

58:44And when we heard that a year ago, we heard that loud and clear, not just from Tom Holman, but all through the administration. We heard that loud and clear and we acted accordingly. It does seem like things have changed over this past year. And whether that's towards amnesty or less deportations, I think the book's still open on that. There is reporting, including from The Atlantic, that reports in January, the Labor Department's Foreign Labor Certification Office announced it would cut the number of approved visas for seasonal workers by about 50 percent. Stephen Miller had been trying for a long time to get these things cut.

59:27He did not want a lot of seasonal workers coming in. But they report that after those two people were killed in Minneapolis, Trump reversed the visa cuts and that Miller was not even aware of the walk back that Trump made the decision with Homan. And they write the reversal was one of the earliest signs that Stephen Miller's influence is on the wane. Others have followed. the president, for example, dismantling the roving border patrol strike forces, his turning on Noam and ejecting of her from the administration, and handing of control of the deportation program back to career law enforcement officials.

1:00:05These are signs, they write, that the softer wing of the immigration deportation issues is winning, and the more hardliners like Stephen Miller are losing. Is that your belief too? It is. It's definitely a softer approach now, much softer than it was a year ago when we hit Bakersfield in Operation Return to Cinder. That softer approach, but what's really happening here is that softer approach means a much harder approach for U.S. citizens, for mom and pa America, the ones that are going. And it's going to happen. As sure as the sun rises today, Megan, American citizens are going to die at the hands of illegal aliens, as well as many other terrible crimes against American citizens.

1:00:52It's going to happen. That's what the softer approach brings. If you if you note what happened in all six of those cities, that those roving patrols that you just mentioned were taking place. What happened in all six of those cities is you didn't see a lot of this of these heinous crimes by illegal aliens. They were too afraid of either being apprehended and deported or they just buttoned up and wouldn't even come out. That's what we want to do with roving patrols, with mass deportations, is make it so hard on them that they don't harm American citizens and then they self-deport. The softer approach does not do that.

1:01:30Increasing visas does not do that. It's black and white. It's a very simple concept. And it does seem like things have changed that we're going towards that softer side. But again, the Atlantic reporting that we've dismantled the roving patrols that you of which you speak, that we decided, I guess, because of Minneapolis, that we were going to take the pedal way off of the gas, take the foot way off of the gas pedal. And this is a distinctive shift in policy that they didn't announce, Gregory. They don't really want us to know, because after this interview with CBS, Tom Homan gave a separate interview where he started to amp up his rhetoric again and he started to sort of talk tough again.

1:02:14And the administration reportedly doesn't really want to own explicitly that they that they've gone softer. But it seems very clear they have. So why did they did the Democrats win? Did the crazies on the streets of Minneapolis win? You know, I think it's got a lot to do with those that are advising Trump. I've always said that President Trump was the best case scenario we've ever had for both Board of Security and that interior enforcement piece. And I still think he is. It's just those individuals advising him, including many of those politicians that maybe they're in bed with big labor. I call those rhinos.

1:02:54I think you know what a rhino is, Megan. And I think that he gets a lot of pressure or a lot of bad advice from some of those individuals that don't truly see what's at stake or perhaps they don't care what's at stake. So when they dismantle a roving patrol, when they dismantle that hard line immigration enforcement, the effects are noticeable immediately. Look at the border numbers now. They're actually moving border patrol agents, actually the second iteration of several hundred border patrol agents to Laredo, Texas, because that border is starting to get out of control. Look at our border numbers.

1:03:32Just two days ago, about 490 border crossers. If you take a look at approximately a year ago when we were doing those roving patrols in the interior, oftentimes this border crosser numbers would be 90 to 100 a day. Now they're 490, approaching 500 a day, and a lot more gotaways coming across the border. So, you know, and the reason the reason why you stated it and we pulled this article, which I feel like you're you're going to agree with every word of this, but you'll tell me is as follows. This is posted to the Substack Old Patrol HQ. Old Patrol HQ is a retired Border Patrol agent of 25 years who just delivers unfiltered truths.

1:04:17And this is what he wrote. He wrote an article about you. Why Gregory Bovino had to go. He writes as follows. For decades, the U.S. has operated under an unwritten but ironclad understanding. If you manage to sneak past the Border Patrol agents and CBP officers at the border, you've effectively bought yourself a ticket to stay. Call it what it is, a social contract with illegal aliens. The message is clear. Play by the rules of this unspoken deal. No other crimes or any other serious crimes. And the system leaves you alone. They write, he goes on to say, let's say I'm just going through the highlights.

1:05:20is another matter entirely in this administration. Even they are firmly loathe and reluctant to break the boundaries of this social contract. Enforcement priorities have almost always focused on criminals. Recent border crossers with detainers are those already in the system. And then reiterates, though, that illegal aliens have to commit rape, murder, or some type of heinous crime before they are targeted for arrest and deportation. Because we've agreed, We've basically agreed that if you don't commit an additional crime, you can stay. And he goes on to say, this is exactly why you became radioactive, because you were pushed out because your approach exposed the uncomfortable truth everyone else had been ignoring.

1:06:03America no longer seems to have the will, the stamina, the drive, or the desire to chase down millions of illegals who are now already on detainers or warrants. The country has quietly accepted a de facto amnesty for anyone who stays out of trouble. That's so true. Is that totally true, Gregory? It is in many aspects. I'll tell you, it's easy to talk tough when Biden's in office or Hussein Obama was in office or Hillary Clinton in office. It's mighty easy to talk tough. But when it comes to actually putting hands on those illegal aliens and deporting, you start seeing it starts separating immigration officers from politicians, immigration officers from people that like to talk tough, but when it comes down to actually doing that work, missing in action.

1:06:52You know, a lot of those individuals you mentioned, I never heard from them for a year, for a year, while we were in the field at an operation at large throughout those six cities, never heard from them for an entire year. It was on us, on us to do this mass deportations, which was fine. That's good. We will accept that. But, you know, a lot of work to be done as far as the will. Do we have the will to do this. Well, if you talk to everyday citizens, it sure seems that we do. I run into citizens every day that say, hey, you're going back in the field to do that, right? This isn't over, right? 90 % of the people that I talk to want that done.

1:07:3495 % of all immigration officers, I'm talking the rank and file there. Let's make a distinction here. The rank and file, they want it to be done. So there's a lot of will. It's just I think that will gets lost in the talking points of those who have lost their will, the rhinos, the politicians, the people that it scares to get outside of status quo. And that's what this is all about is outside of status quo. How are you going to move the ball down the field? Moving the ball down the field sometimes is a very difficult, unpretty, dirty process. And, you know, you've got to get your got to get your britches dirty, in other words.

1:08:11So I think that scares a lot of people. It puts them outside their comfort zone. What happens to bureaucrats and politicians when they're outside their comfort zone? All they see is risk. And a lot of them don't do well with risk. Life's a risk. Working's a risk. What you're doing right now is a risk. So what made the difference here? What made the difference here because president trump he doesn't scare easily that's true and but you know the stories out of minneapolis were dominating the news the lies that were being told about those encounters with renee good and alex preddy i mean we're used to that though we're used to the mainstream media so-called lying about anything having to do with border enforcement or deportations so and the president's poll numbers on immigration were going down i mean not unexpectedly as a result of what the media was doing around these protests and what the Democrats did in Minneapolis in particular.

1:09:07So I could I could understand from a political standpoint, which he does have to consider how he was like, at least for a while, we got to take the temperature down and we got to get this off the front page of the newspaper. But what what should he have done in your view? I think he should have went harder. Some things in Minneapolis that perhaps he doesn't know is those roving patrols that were so instrumental in quelling that same type of violence in Chicago, Los Angeles, Charlotte, New Orleans, and many other cities was largely absent for those first several weeks of that Minnesota campaign.

1:09:45I tell you, I would love to have - Who was there? That was Border Patrol and ICE. ICE was there first. Border Patrol came to assist ICE on a two-day operation. is just, Megan, on that two-day operation while we were in the air, in those Coast Guard aircraft, on the way to Minneapolis, that's when Rene Good was killed. And that changed everything. That two-day operation then turned into a several-week operation with the Border Patrol. However, those roving patrols did not take place. And I think that— Who made up—sorry to keep interrupting, but who made up the roving patrol? Like, who was in them?

1:10:19Sure. Rugging patrol, that's a term specifically for U.S. Border Patrol. That's our ability to conduct what we call total spectrum immigration enforcement. That means everything. That means we go out on patrol. We do targeting. You've heard of the targeting. We do special operations, use aircraft. That is a total enforcement package that goes after anything immigration related, not just one specific subset like targeting or worse to the worse or something like that. So that is, in essence, what a roving patrol is. And we really didn't, we never got to the roving patrol. That also includes crowd control, riot control, that type of thing.

1:10:59And if you look back at Los Angeles or Chicago, we did very well with that crowd and riot control to the point they didn't test us at all in Los Angeles after that very first day. Same thing in Chicago. You may have heard of the Broadview facility, the riot control there. They didn't test us. They didn't march downtown Chicago like everyone was worried about because we set that standard very soon. That did not happen in Minnesota. The ICE folks, they do a great job. Their leadership looks at things on a different plane than we do a different way. And when you let those rioters and those anarchists get out of control, you've got to put that genie back in the bottle at some point.

1:11:46We didn't do that. So I think Mr. Trump, I think he would have done that had he been advised correctly. but I don't think that he was getting the proper advisement from whoever was advising him. And that's too bad because - And I don't mean to be dense, Gregory, just help me understand because I genuinely want to get it. So would there be a Border Patrol group that's there and an ICE group that's there and a separate group from Border Patrol called the Roving Patrol? No, Border Patrol is the Roving Patrol. That's one of the tactics or strategies that they use for that total spectrum immigration enforcement.

1:12:23Remember, the Border Patrol is your uniformed law enforcement agency. They have uniforms on. They're sort of like your street cops. Think of Border Patrol as your street cops. Street cops, say, in New York City, for instance, they go out and they knock down street crime. The detectives in New York City, which are more akin to ICE in Homeland Security investigations, they investigate. gate, they do targeted enforcement, that type of thing. Would you send your detectives out to do street crime? No, you would send your uniformed border patrol agents, your uniformed cops out to do those roving patrols, to take on that street crime, to take on those everyday duties, to take on those millions of illegal aliens walking the streets with impunity.

1:13:06That's definitely a uniformed law enforcement mission, something the border patrol has done for 102 years. And, you know, I think that that sort of got upended there in Minneapolis. And I hope it comes back because that's the key to all of this is total spectrum immigration enforcement, mass deportations. You have to have a uniformed law enforcement agency on the streets doing that. who remit remind me if memory serves ice was involved maybe in the renee good uh death and border patrol in the alex preddy is that correct that is correct renee good used a vehicle and then alex preddy was in the streets uh attacking border patrol agents while they were conducting a uh a law enforcement mission they were after a an aggravated felon who actually got away because of Alex Freddie.

1:13:59I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize is that individual that Border Patrol was actively seeking ended up getting away because Alex Freddie injected himself into that situation. One of the things that went wrong in the wake of those deaths was the messaging around it. I think Kristi Noem, my own belief is Kristi Noem, in what I think was a well-meaning effort to have the backs of her guys, overstated the defense. You know, she went hard against Alex Preddy in a way that the facts just didn't support, like that he was there to kill a bunch of cops. I can't remember her exact language, but it went too far and there wasn't factual support for it.

1:14:41How do you see what Kristi Noem said around those two incidents? Because I believe you're a fan of hers, but what do you make of the messaging? One of the things I think the secretary, Secretary Noem wanted to do there was get information and messaging out as soon as possible. In many of these shootings that we see throughout law enforcement, you wonder what happened. Those conspiracy theories and stories start percolating up rather quickly. She wanted to get out ahead of that. And I thought that was a pretty smart move on her part, is to get out ahead of it, get some information out there as soon as possible.

1:15:17Where she got her talking points from, what higher entity that she collaborated with for those talking points. I understand that did take place. And she put those talking points out there. I think that was in a good faith effort to put information out there so that the American public could understand that, one, there was a problem there in Minneapolis and that there were responsible parties for that. It didn't just happen. So she didn't come up with that on her own. When you're saying somebody gave her those so-called facts, who? You know, I think that she she worked with individuals on that messaging within the administration.

1:15:59And I think White House people or ICE or Border Patrol people? Probably all of the above. And that was with you. Do you know what you're just being diplomatic? No, I think that's the best information. Remember, there was a lot of information that no one had at that point, like what type of a weapon Alex had or. you know, what exactly was going on. So she put that information out as soon as she could. And based on what information was available at the time. And, you know, I think that that was definitely a good faith effort on her part to put some information out regarding the situation. Yeah, we can't.

1:16:39That's the problem is like putting information out is great, but don't don't say facts you can't support because then it undermines everybody involved. That's what happened. Do you think, I mean, how would you describe your departure from the administration? Well, I tell you, I certainly miss my Mean Green team. A lot of folks said I was up for mandatory retirement. I actually had a year left, so I had some more gas in the tank there for mass deportations. I would say that I'm a mass deportations kind of a guy, and many in the administration or not. So we definitely came to loggerheads on how we go about deporting individuals from the United States.

1:17:19I'm ready to go at it, cause self-deportations. And if they don't self-deport, then we'll deport them ourselves. And I think a lot of folks saw that as maybe overly aggressive there in the administration. And I'm not a politician. Those poll numbers you mentioned earlier. I don't care about it. Gregory, this confuses me. President Trump seems to be on board with that. At least we think. Kristi Noem was certainly on board with that. Tom Homan may not be totally on board with that, but he was an equal. He was a lateral to you, right? So it's like, who? Who wants the illegals to stay? I think that goes back to the influences that surround Trump.

1:18:02And again, I'm not, I wasn't in the White House. I was more in the field and not on Capitol Hill or engaged in a lot of those discussions. But I think the rhinos that came out and attacked Christy Trump, I think that's probably a good starting point. I think that. Christy Noem. Yes, Christy Noem. And I think that there's a lot of folks there that did not believe in mass deportations on the scale that we were ready to put that into effect. And whether that was Tom Holman, Rodney Scott, you know, certainly I didn't hear from him for a year during that operation. So what was going on? Neither one of those.

1:18:41Not once. Not once. Wow. So, you know, I think that it's probably, you know, two different strategies. And I guess they were mutually exclusive. I think they should have been integrated, but probably mutually exclusive. Well, Tom Homan came out and said, once he swooped into Minneapolis named Paul and said, you know, I'm I'm going to handle it and said, I'm going to get these. I've gotten the attorney general to agree that the sheriffs can cooperate with ICE. And before they release anybody from jail, whether they've been arrested temporarily or they're actually getting out of serving a prison sentence, they now can.

1:19:29And he said he got the AG to acknowledge, call ICE, work with ICE on effecting any ICE detainer that may be on that criminal. So that before we just sent them loose out on the street after they bailed out or they've served their terms in prison, they'll give ICE a call if there's a detainer or there's a deportation order, et cetera, for this person. Now ICE will swoop in and arrest them to have an immigration proceeding on them. But we pointed out at the time, Gregory, that that's not going to happen in Minneapolis and St. Paul because they're sanctuary cities. By law, they don't cooperate with ICE.

1:20:03And so we actually paid very close attention to see whether Tom Homan had pulled a rabbit out of a hat that we had underestimated his ability to do. And there wasn't. The sheriff of the Minneapolis main lockup facility came out and said, I'm not doing that. We haven't changed one word of our policy. We are still sanctuary. And our policy is not to cooperate with federal immigration officials on detainers or anything else. So nothing's changed. I don't know why he's saying that. Of course not. It's a complete capitulation in Minnesota. And what that does is that emboldens other sanctuary cities, other blue states.

1:20:46It also emboldens those transnational criminal organizations to, guess what, traffic more people across the border into the interior because there is no interior enforcement of meaningful impact taking place. uh mayor fry there in good old mayor fry there in minneapolis he was calling for people to fight border patrol in the streets now if it's going from that to hey all of a sudden we're gonna we're gonna start turning illegal aliens over to ice you know uh we scratched our head at that one uh it you know that that was never going to happen and that was why we were in those communities in the first place, going after that fraud, the leering center, the illegal aliens walking the streets with impunity, just like we did in every single other city.

1:21:38Yes. Okay. So I'm just trying to pull the actual statement from the local sheriff. Let's see. I'm looking for it.

1:21:56where is that, Deb? It says, yeah, I can hear you. Sorry. Okay, stand by, because I want to read the audience exactly what the Hennepin County Sheriff said. This is not Megan Kelly's interpretation. This is from the sheriff directly. They're not doing what Homan suggested they were doing. And here it is, per the Hennepin County Sheriff's website, as of May 4th. In our jail, we do not honor administrative detainers or administrative warrants. These documents are not criminal warrants signed by a judge. We will only comply with a judicially signed warrant, which is that's that's sanctuary city policies.

1:22:35That is not at all consistent with what Holman is saying. Now, he may have gotten an agreement from other lesser sheriff's office around in terms of size. I mean, around the state of Minnesota. I don't know that. But the big one in Minneapolis, which we had all the fights over, has not changed a thing. It seems to me we have just waved the white flag there and you seem to be confirming that. Can you spend another minute on Laredo? Because this story hasn't gotten a lot of attention. President Trump just keeps declaring the borders closed. Absolutely no one's getting through. And unfortunately, I think because of that, you know, I read the blog post, the Substack post, because of that unspoken de facto amnesty that we have actually been offering, even under President Trump, which is we're only going to get rid of you if you commit an additional crime.

1:23:21Like if you make it past Border Patrol and sneaking in, and then you don't commit an additional felony, we're going to leave you alone. There's a lot of employers who need you in the hotel industry, some other construction industry, retail, what have you. We're going to let you stay. We're going to allow you to go on the public dole if you need it. And we're not going to bother you. And therefore, the incentive to sneak across the border is kicking back in in the wake of our downshift. It's kicking back in, which is why what's happening in Laredo matters. Can you explain that? Exactly. What happens in the interior directly correlates to what happens on the border.

1:24:01So interior enforcement, those roving patrols, those mass deportations in the interior, that directly affects what happens on the border. You know, for many years, Megan, we heard, you know, we have to cut the spigot off. We have to shut the border down before we go into the interior. Us and the Border Patrol, we always knew that was a fallacy. That was not that was not true. And you know what? It's been proved now. It's proven. That's a proven fact. Now, what happens in those cities and in that in the interior, as far as interior enforcement is going to either encourage or discourage folks from coming across the border.

1:24:37Now that meaningful large-scale interior enforcement stopped, you're seeing places like Laredo start to spark up a bit. And this is just the beginning of that because this is worldwide now. Immigration is worldwide. It's not just folks, say, from Mexico or Central America. This is worldwide now. And you have drug cartels and transnational criminal organizations that are keeping a close eye on what's happening there in the interior because they make a lot of money smuggling illegal aliens across that border. You know,$8 ,000,$10 ,000 a head for just your run-of-the-mill illegal alien and a lot more than that if they come from, say, Red China or from some of those other countries.

1:25:20So that's what's happening there in Laredo. Again, we're on our second iteration of Border Patrol agents. I believe approximately 200 Border Patrol agents were taken from other parts of the southwest border, piped into Laredo to quell that part of the border down. But what we're going to see, if these mass deportations and this interior enforcement doesn't kick back on in the interior, we're going to see other parts of the border. It's like whack-a-mole. They're going to shift to another part of the border and another and another and another. and pretty soon it's going to be uh just like what it was a very chaotic environment with a lot of people coming across the border because if they make it past the border patrol there's nothing else in the interior that they have to worry about and let me tell you they're not worried they're not worrying about targeting or worse to the worst that's the least thing they're worried about is targeting or worse to the worst because again they don't look at themselves as worse to the worst.

1:26:14They say, I'm here to work in the hotel room or in the fields or collect welfare. Whatever they're coming to do, they're not looking at themselves as worst of the worst. And that just begets more immigration or I'm sorry, more illegal migration. And then you know what? We've got that de facto amnesty. We've always said that's de facto amnesty. They get past the border patrol. What's next? Amnesty. That in itself begets even more illegal immigration. It's game on for the bad guys right now. Yeah. What are they? They don't really care about becoming a citizen. They don't actually have to become a citizen.

1:26:52They want to live here. They want to work here. They want to possibly go on the public dole and they want to send checks home to Mexico. And we're allowing it. We're allowing it that the shipping the prisoners off to Seacott in El Salvador. That was the kind of stuff that scared people like Kristi Noem going down there, like doing the selfie video in front of all those prisoners, it may have been sort of in rough taste, right? Like it was a little jarring to see, but that was the point to make it uncomfortable. Everyone's going to see like, that could be me behind those bars. This episode is sponsored by Veracity, whose founder and CEO, Allie Egan, has a story you should hear.

1:27:37She is a certified hormonal health coach who experienced the effects of compromised metabolic health firsthand. For years, she struggled with undiagnosed Hashimoto's. That's an autoimmune disease that impacts the thyroid. It was functional medicine that ultimately treated the underlying root causes. And now she's Hashimoto's free and the mother of two beautiful children. Allie created Veracity so that everyone can access the holistic solutions and optimal health we deserve. Veracity says its metabolism ignite formula is the number one doctor recommended GLP-1 booster and natural GLP-1 alternative made from a unique blend of hibiscus extracts, green coffee bean extract, and magnesium.

1:28:22They say there are no side effects and no allergens, just two capsules with breakfast, safe, simple, and natural. So consider trying Veracity. Head to veracityhealth.co and use the code Megan when you're checking out, which will get you up to 65 % off your order. Once again, that's V-E-R-A-C-I-T-Y health.co for up to 65 % off and make sure you use my promo code Megan so they know we sent you and you get that 65 % discount. When it comes to supplements, there are two things that matter most. You need it to work and you need to trust it. Both are absolutely essential. Many hosts have been taking and authentically endorsing Relief Factor for these two reasons for over a decade.

1:29:10That's over 10 years of lending their voices to help get you out of pain, drug-free. Why? Because Relief Factor does work. It offers a quick start option. They actually lose money on this first offer, but they do it so that people can try it and see for themselves. That's how confident they are in their product. More than 1 million people have tried Relief Factor. I'm one of them. and about two thirds go on to order more because they've gotten such relief from it. The creator of Relief Factor actually returned home from Vietnam as a combat veteran and decided to become a doctor simply to help people.

1:29:43He is the one who created Relief Factor originally to help his patients with pain. And when he saw how well it worked, he decided to make it available to everyone. If pain has been holding you back, maybe it's time you found out why so many people make Relief Factor part of their routine. You see, it helps fight the inflammation that causes pain. It doesn't just treat the symptom. It goes after the underlying source of the symptoms. Try it for yourself. There's a three-week quick start. You can start today and see how it works for you. Visit relieffactor.com or call 800-4-RELIEF.

1:30:19Ana Kasparian:The wrongs we must right. The fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this.

1:30:49Hey there, I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, which caused back pain and stiffness every day. With Cosentix, I'm able to stay active. Cosentix Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis, or non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self-injection. Don't use if allergic to Cosentix. Get checked for TB before starting. Increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections. Some were fatal.

1:31:25Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough, had a vaccine or planned to, or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-COSENTICS or cosentics.com.

1:31:43Ana Kasparian:Move and feel better. Ask a rheumatologist about Cosentics. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

1:32:23What the stats show, Gregory, is that now, under Trump's presidency, we've gotten more than 3 million illegals out of the country. That's 713 ,000 deportations. This is per the Department of Homeland Security as of March 2026. 713 ,000 deportations and estimated 2.2 million self-deportations. So the self-deportations dwarf the actual ejections by Homeland Security and Border Patrol, etc. But the reason those numbers are going to go down is because of the softer touch, because we seem to be returning to de facto amnesty. You make it past Bovino's guise, you're good. No one's coming to find you.

1:33:09How many times have you heard of the CBP Home app used since I left Minnesota? I've heard it one time. I think Mullen mentioned it one time, the CBP Home app. Something that I think would be interesting for your viewers is Secretary Noem actually listened to us as far as those ads that she put out. One of the things we said is when you get on there and you talk about the CBP Home app, the$2 ,600 and the free plane ticket and all that to self-deport to whatever country you came from, that is having an effect. And we knew it was having an effect because we talked quite closely with our partners there at the ports of entry, whether that was an airport or an actual land port of entry.

1:33:51And the lines going south out of the country, whenever she would get on, whenever she was on TV talking CBP Home App or myself talking CBP Home App, it was having an effect. That coupled with that good, tough, hard-nosed immigration enforcement. Hey, that's what we wanted to happen, Megan. We want them to self-deport. We would rather them self-deport rather than me put handcuffs on 100 million illegal aliens. Let's just have them self-deport for us. But for that to happen, it has to be so very tough on them here in the United States that they can't work. They can't recreate. They can't go to the grocery store.

1:34:31They can't do anything. And we proof tested that in Los Angeles, operations at large. That whole city was locked down for almost a year. Unfortunately, I talked to some of my Border Patrol colleagues who are still active. Many of those areas in Los Angeles now, specifically the Fashion District downtown Los Angeles, they're back flourishing again. They were not flourishing while we were there for that year of occupation there in Los Angeles. What about E-Verify? What about E-Verify, Gregory, where like you can't hire this person as they actually produce proof of citizenship? Many people believe that would be the greatest thing to lead to self-deportation, but it won't get implemented across the board.

1:35:16You got to implement it first. That's the number one thing. If you implement it, that's going to be one facet. But remember, immigration enforcement, and that's why we call it total spectrum immigration enforcement, eVerify would be one facet of total spectrum immigration enforcement. You've got a whole bunch of other things, shutting down remittances, making it difficult for an illegal alien to own land, mass deportations, a whole slew of things. Anything you can bring to bear to cause those self-deportations. So E-Verify is great. We need it. Big fan of E-Verify and work site enforcement. Definitely.

1:35:54That would definitely have an effect. But there's a lot of illegal aliens who are on the dole who don't go to a workplace. We've got to cut that off also. total spectrum immigration enforcement. It's not that hard, Megan. We've got a great strategy there in the board of control. We spent years writing this strategy before we went into those cities. That's one of those things I would love to have talked to President Trump on. I think he got bits and pieces of that strategy. He's getting bits and pieces of things that sound good to him. And I think he acts on those bits and pieces. Again, he's the best president we've got for for immigration and that type of thing.

1:36:30But I don't think he's getting the whole story. He hasn't gotten the whole story over the past year or so. There's a lot more things we can do, e-verifying being just one of those things that we can do to cause people to self-deport and say, you know what, I think I need to do this the right way. If you remember, Noam always said, hey, go back to your country, do it the right way, and you still have a chance of immigrating legally to the United States. You never hear that now. I never hear that message now. And that's why our self-deportations are plummeting as we speak. They're plummeting. No one's scared.

1:37:07They're just going to say, you know what, de facto amnesty. Well, and the other problem we have is there's no wall. We did not build the wall. And when President Trump leaves office, there is no guaranteed that a Republican is going to replace him. So we're, we could have a situation where other than Rahm Emanuel, I don't hear any of the Democrat candidates talking about holding onto Trump's border policies, which have been so much more effective than any of his predecessors. No one's talking about doing that. So more than likely we're going to get, if a Democrat wins another open border situation, which we wouldn't have to worry that much about if we had a wall.

1:37:46We just spent, the administration says it's$25 to$29 billion on this war. The true estimates, according to people who are watchdogs of what we're actually spending is more like double that, over$50 billion on this war. The Pentagon is back asking for well over a trillion dollars for its budget. I mean, for a fraction of that, we could complete the wall at the southern border and set ourselves up for decades of a more successful border policy down there, Gregory. Why? Why don't we have a wall? Because the war is not here at home. That war needs to be here at home. That war is those hundred million illegal aliens here that are sucking us dry, are culturally changing our society.

1:38:27That's the real war that that needs to be fought here. So once that is taken into context as the real threat to America, then And perhaps we can get that wall built. When you speak of the wall, the wall is not just the wall. It's the wall and all the accoutrements associated with the wall, all that detection technology, all those things and people that make it so very difficult to cross that border. So you're right, a completed wall with all that technology and infrastructure and workforce, that would make it very difficult. Even if there was a Democratic administration that came into office, It would make it very difficult for another mass migration to occur.

1:39:08I'll tell you what, quite frankly, it scares the heck out of me to think what could happen if another liberal administration came in. Because guess what? They're going to take a look at what Joe Biden did with those tens of millions of illegal aliens that came across. And I think we've seen nothing yet. I think we could see a lot more than that because they come across and and what we're going to wave the white flag yet again and not conduct mass deportations. Well, you know what? You've got an America that has been made over into something that you and I will not even will not even recognize.

1:39:44That's what scares me. Do you think the numbers are that big? A hundred. You think there are a hundred million illegals in this country? You're saying on top of the 330 million American citizens. So we've got 430 million in the country, 100 million of which are illegal. I do. I do believe that. Megan, let's look at the numbers from 1975. 1975 Pew and all the other ones were talking 12 to 15 million. When I came into the Border Patrol 30 years ago, 12 to 15 million. 2015, 12 to 15 million. But the only thing that was not making sense is working on the border, seeing this mass incursion of illegal aliens every single year coming into the United States.

1:40:26We all knew, well, there's no possible way it's 15 million. And, you know, in my research, I looked at some other folks that had done some research, Bear Starnes, and then that Yale-MIT study. Those were two of the first studies to put that at above 15 million. I believe theirs was approximately 25 million. And wow, for them just to say 25 million in 2016, that was that was that was huge. Definitely still too low. And since then, look at what came in under Joe Biden. Eighty percent of that border was wide open. Eighty percent. A lot of we don't even know what came in. Eighty percent of your entire southwest border had no detection, no border patrol agents, nothing.

1:41:09and there is no telling what came across that we didn't detect. And then what we did detect was in the millions, many that were still unvetted, but the millions that came in on top. Yes, I do put that number at 100 million. And what we saw in those major cities, those six cities, as well as many other regions in the United States, what we saw there as far as traffic patterns, children attending school or not attending school when we were in those cities correlates pretty well with that 100 million. Take a look at Charlotte, 153 ,000 commuters, 30 to 40 % of that 153 ,000 quit commuting when we were in Charlotte for Operation Charlotte's Web on that four-day operation.

1:41:54That was just a four-day operation. Really? Four-day operation. And when you've got 30 to 40 % taken out, well, that correlates pretty darn well with$100 million. Same thing with the school children. They just revamped that estimate. Not a lot of people know this. They just revamped the estimate of absenteeism in the Charlotte Mecklenburg schools, 30 % plus while we were there for that four-day operation. Look what a four-day operation did to that two-state area. Completely shut it down. I would say there were probably a lot of self-deportations getting ready or already occurring there in Charlotte.

1:42:32So 100 million, absolutely. I stand by it. And a lot of people are saying, well, that's too high. He's crazy. Oh, Chief Bovino is absolutely crazy. Doesn't know what he's talking about. Well, you know what? Show me another number. No one else is even daring to throw another number out because it's definitely looking like that 100 million is a quite definable and achievable number as far as the number of illegal aliens here in the United States. Your use of the word chief reminded me to ask you, the current Border Patrol chief, Mike Banks, is resigning, effective immediately. This is just breaking per Fox's Bill Malusian.

1:43:12He says, it's just time. I feel like I got the ship back on course from the least secure disastrous chaotic border to the most secure border this country's ever seen. Time to pass the reins, 37 years. It's time to enjoy the family and life. I must mention that in April, the Washington Examiner did a report on him allegedly taking regular trips abroad to engage with in sex with prostitutes like to Colombia and Thailand, which doesn't sound like a great idea. I don't know whether that's true, but maybe it had a hand in his decision to step down. What do you make of the resignation of Chief Mike Banks?

1:43:49Several things there, Megan. I talked to Chief Banks about 30 minutes before coming on your show, and he was quite gracious in what he was saying there. What I will say is that Chief Banks and I are both mass deportations people, just like Kristi Noem, Corey Lewandowski, and others. Mass deportations folks, and we're all no longer employed by Department of Homeland Security. What does that tell you? Uh, so when we talk about politicians and politics, none of us were politicians or engaged in politics, but that's a very dirty business, a very tough business. We're all no longer working for Department of Homeland Security.

1:44:29We are all mass deportation hardliners. And I use that term with great pride. Am I an immigration hardliner? You bet. Mike Banks was a fantastic immigration hardliner. And the same thing that happened to Christine Dome is now happening to Mike Banks. All of a sudden they pull a rabbit out of their hat and these individuals, you know, oh my gracious, they're the worst, worst thing since sliced bread. That's what I think about what just happened to Mike Banks. As a matter of fact, I think that prostitution thing had been, that had been investigated many years ago and he was cleared. So that's what they're not telling you there.

1:45:10There's a reason that that wound up in a conservative newspaper, Washington Examiner, when it did. In other words, weeks before he would resign. Absolutely. You bet. You bet. This stuff doesn't happen just by chance. This doesn't happen by chance. There's a lot of snakes, a lot of swamp creatures still out there. So careful, America, still some swamp creatures out there. and before we go mass deportations and before we return to hardline immigration, those snakes need to leave. Gregory, thank you. Can you please come back? I love talking to you. That was fantastic, Megan. Thank you for having me.

1:45:48Thank you for your service to our country too. We need you. We need a lot more just like you. Wow. We're back tomorrow with Glenn Greenwald. Thank you all for being with us today. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

1:46:30We'll see you next time. To find a place.

1:46:35Ana Kasparian:The wrongs we must right. The fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this. Thank you.